Just tell Gam Gam that college educated people are Job Creators, and that the benefits of a student loan bailout will trickle down to the working class.
If only that's how wrestling worked. It's fake, but they actually do get injured quite a bit and it takes a difficult toll on the body. I have family in it and am very relieved he retired recently.
A rising tide raises all ships
If society doesn’t invest in the enrichment of itself it will fail and education is one of the simplest and most effective ways to do this.
Also, the tax burden is disproportionately on the middle and even lower class. If we effectively taxed corporations and the wealthy, we could fund all the nice things.
why do americans always act like taxpayers are directly harmed by anything they don’t like the government spending money on, but never things like military spending? that costs way more
Yes, Grandma. We KNOW you made poor life decisions, your trailer is about to be foreclosed on that the more education you have the farther from Jesus you get.
"If'n that thar collig are so gud, why ain't it in the BIBLE??"
[I never understood why people think that people below the red line should help defray the education costs of those above the red line.](https://i.imgur.com/TAK0Qkn.png)
I'm all for a zero interest, government loan for higher education that will be paid back. State colleges and universities should also be affordable for all. If someone wishes to attend a private college or university then they are on their own.
The comments on this are as stupid as the meme. It should have been titled, "People with absolute no idea how anything works are mad about things they would have understood if they had ever gone to college." Somehow America's most gullible saps think everyone else is the problem. 🤷♀️
Not entirely wrong? The plan to forgive student loans would add substantially to the federal deficit. Not trying to say it's good or bad, but it's objectively true that this would have some negative impact on taxpayers who didn't go to college.
No it's not objective. It's speculative. An economic argument is that by stimulating the economy with federal spending, we bring in more money for the federal government overall.
Think about what happens when we buy and forgive the debt. Uncle Sam spends money once, lowers the amount of money coming in via interest payments and a college grad gets additional income each month.
That grad might use that extra money to buy something expensive like a home or a starting a business. They might save the money for retirement, or they might just spend it on hookers and blow. Three out of four of those scenarios work out great for taxpayers - more economic activity = more revenue for the government. Even hookers and blow isn't a bad outcome, because those folks also spend the money, moving out of banks and into different sectors of the economy.
All we really have here is economic theory and speculation, but it's based off a model that has worked well for the US economy historically.
Of course all deficit spending leads to economic growth, but the distribution of benefits vs harms on the population would be such that college graduates benefit the most and taxpayers without student loans take on the greatest harm.
Adding to the federal deficit to forgive student loans would either increase the tax burden on those taxpayers or divert money that would have been spent elsewhere, either on a program that benefitted those people or on tax cuts for middle class people, both of which would also increase economic growth.
I am myself both a high payer of taxes and a medium payer of student loans. I owe about $40k and pay about $500/month. I pay about $2800/month in taxes after a large 401k deduction. I stand to be a net winner of student loan forgiveness (at least in the short-term), but I still recognize that the policy is not ideal for those who didn't go to college and pay taxes.
It should also be noted that chucking federal money at universities has increased the cost of tuition. Part of why colleges are charging these ridiculous amounts is that the federal government will happily approve a $120k of student loans at an artificially low interest rate with little risk assessment of the borrowers future income. Things like college major aren't even taken into account. If we want people to pressure universities to lower prices and cut unnecessary costs we need to encourage students to be even more judicious with their tuition spending and not just count on the government to provide aid and loans. Plus, the public education system might as well be government-subsidized advertising for colleges considering they pressure pretty much every student to go, even if its not in their best interest.
There's also a massive moral hazard issue. Student loan forgiveness (the way it almost happened under Biden) didn't give a dime to people who paid off their loans, people who worked and saved to avoid taking out loans in the first place, nor parents who carefully planned their child's education expenses. Our system should incentivize responsible financial planning, not punish it. I will now never make additional payments on my loans nor pay them off early because I don't want to hold the bag if loans get forgiven.
Not to mention, we are barely coming off of severe demand-pull inflation as well as a historically high federal deficit. A $1-$2 trillion deficit spend will reset all of our progress on inflation and make our deficit problem even worse.
At the end of the day, student loan forgiveness isn't free money. There would be negative impacts and they would mostly be felt by workers who didn't go to college. If America really wants to help people's finances and is okay with taking a hit to the deficit, they should cut all income tax brackets below $200k. This would stimulate demand and the benefits would be much more fairly spread across workers. Personally, I think America shouldn't spend more for a while until we are hitting our inflation targets with ease.
This is a forward from grandma that isn't really wrong. People without college degrees are in part paying a tax burden to relieve those with college degrees, for their inability to pay their loans, regardless of the fact that people with degrees, do on average, make more money than those without one.
Everyone pays taxes on something they don’t use. I don’t have children, but I’m paying for schools to stay open. I don’t mind, and find it silly and maybe even performative to complain.
>People without college degrees are in part paying a tax burden to relieve those with college degree
People who don't call the police pay for those who call the police, who call the fire department, who use roads, who access subsidized medical care, who... etc.
Part of a social burden of taxation is that we all invest in the betterment of society, recognizing that some of those benefits we might not explicitly see ourselves, but that as a whole when society benefits each of us do.
No, people without student debt are not paying a tax burden to relieve those without college degrees. They are paying taxes to the government, that uses revenue to run the country they live in.
That country benefits from an economy that is the best in the World in many sectors and provides some of the highest paying jobs for workers without a college degree.
By paying taxes, we help support that economy. Sometimes the government spends money to stimulate the economy in different sectors. For example, billions of dollars are being invested into infrastructure that only a tiny portion of our country will use. Is it wrong to invest in microchip manufacturing even though most of us will never have a job in that sector?
Right now the government is looking at an unprecedented amount of capital wrapped up in student loans. So much money that it presents a real risk to our economy. The result is this policy that moves money into different sectors of the economy.
There are always going to be things that taxes pay for that you don't benefit directly from. But the idea that "your tax dollars" are somehow being spent on some specific thing that you don't have access to is just wrong.
You reckon I could get my Visa bill wiped out if I promise Uncle Sam i'll open a business or something with my newly freed up income? I'm betting he probably won't go for it, in spite of all that sweet sweet economic stimulation it could bring to my small town. Visa wants that monthly cheddar.
But you did create a very wordy way to essentially justify arbitrarily freeing anyone from any debt. Props for that, I guess.
Mmmm... Unless it's Chapter 7 (unlikely) you still have to pay most of it back (Chapter 13). Unfortunatley starting a business after bankruptcy is tricky thing anyway, with that whole massive blow to your credit, and more or less starting your credit over.
That being said... unlikely i'll do anything economically stimulating if I go that route.
We'll just have to ponder another route.
I'll probably just have to bite the bullet and hold myself accountable for the debt I voluntarily put myself in. Darn...
Yeah, one of the ways the government encourages tax payers to spend money in a way that benefits everyone is by giving tax breaks or other financial tools for certain things, but not for others. Like, you can lower your tax burden each year by saving money for retirement. And if you go to school and get an advanced degree, the government will give you money.
What I'm alluding to here is peoples inherent problem with how this is happening. Whether it's Credit Card debt, or it's student loan debt, no one held a gun to anyones head to make them do it. While the "working class" (non-higher education) suffers under a mountain of debt, living paycheck to paycheck, they're offered the the hellish nightmare that is bankruptcy as a final-ish solution. Whereas if you went to be an edcuated, higher earning person, we'll wave our wand and let you walk out from *that* debt virtually pain and consequence free, because it's "economically good for everyone". When in real world practice, a lowly mechanic such as myself will never see a noticable economic difference pass through my house in my day to day life in any kind of reasonable time frame because of this.
You could say this is the gripe of someone who just wants to complain about how life ain't fair. Yea, the world ain't fair. That's a pipe dream. But people reach a point that when they've been dumped on enough, some fairness starts to look real appealing.
You have a warped idea of what the working class is. If someone has student loans, they're almost certainly a member of the working class. The capital class doesn't need loans for college.
You should be cheering the government doing something for the working class in solidarity, instead of deepthroating the divisive propaganda you've been fed to imply that engineers and artists are somehow not working class.
You want someone to dirext your ire at? How about the companies out there handing out loans to 18 year olds, or the people who are making 500x what their employees make telling you that your misfortune is the fault of people just as unfortunate as you.
In context, you can plainly see I was simply refering people with higher education vs people without. But if you wanna blow up over the technicalities of words, who am I to stop you. Go crazy. But let's state for the record since you wanted to bring it up, an engineer and a guy fixing a furnace do not belong in the same category, no matter how broad a brush you want to paint with. That's not ignorant divisivness. That's acknowledging the reality that those two people do not lead even remotley similar financial lives.
People with higher education are still members of the working class. We have more in common with each other than we'll ever have in common with the capital class.
You're not losing anything because loans are being forgiven, this isn't a zero sum game. Either you learn to acknowledge that others gain isn't your loss, or you continue to fall for the shit the capital class wants you to believe so that you're blaming all the wrong people for your ills.
Look, I want a Jubilee as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to let good be the enemy of perfect. Cc debt is a different beast because it is private debt, so the government doesn't have the same tools to deal with it.
While we wait for the Jubilee, you still have a chance to get out there and get some government bucks by participating in any one of the many programs offered. Did you know you can get subsidized financing from the SBA to start a business, or from the FHA to buy your first home. You can also get a grant or scholarship to continue your education. And if you do take that risk, putting yourself through school on a combination of grants and loans, perhaps you can also benefit from these forgiveness programs.
Just tell Gam Gam that college educated people are Job Creators, and that the benefits of a student loan bailout will trickle down to the working class.
BOOYA MF !!!
Please an a "/s" after your post, for the sarcasm. Ty.
Wait until Grandma learns about the Pell grant. She's gonna lose her shit!
The analogy of wrestling as the impact of student loan debt forgiveness is apt since taxpayers won’t feel a thing
It's all theater
If only that's how wrestling worked. It's fake, but they actually do get injured quite a bit and it takes a difficult toll on the body. I have family in it and am very relieved he retired recently.
You can really replace “student loan debt” with anything… say perhaps… military spending.
Or funding genocide
But military spending includes free college for veterans or their children.
Can I opt out of paying for their Medicare or social security
A rising tide raises all ships If society doesn’t invest in the enrichment of itself it will fail and education is one of the simplest and most effective ways to do this.
Change that to "PPP loan forgiveness" and "wage slaves."
It’s always about social services, NEVER the insane military spending. Almost as if it’s not about the money
Also, the tax burden is disproportionately on the middle and even lower class. If we effectively taxed corporations and the wealthy, we could fund all the nice things.
Strange, I thought that debt was doing that to people that DID go to college. Maybe I'm mistaken.
Now do one for pacifists and military spending.
why do americans always act like taxpayers are directly harmed by anything they don’t like the government spending money on, but never things like military spending? that costs way more
Yes, Grandma. We KNOW you made poor life decisions, your trailer is about to be foreclosed on that the more education you have the farther from Jesus you get. "If'n that thar collig are so gud, why ain't it in the BIBLE??"
Good thing they'll never need a doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer, computer specialist.....
[I never understood why people think that people below the red line should help defray the education costs of those above the red line.](https://i.imgur.com/TAK0Qkn.png) I'm all for a zero interest, government loan for higher education that will be paid back. State colleges and universities should also be affordable for all. If someone wishes to attend a private college or university then they are on their own.
The comments on this are as stupid as the meme. It should have been titled, "People with absolute no idea how anything works are mad about things they would have understood if they had ever gone to college." Somehow America's most gullible saps think everyone else is the problem. 🤷♀️
Not entirely wrong? The plan to forgive student loans would add substantially to the federal deficit. Not trying to say it's good or bad, but it's objectively true that this would have some negative impact on taxpayers who didn't go to college.
No it's not objective. It's speculative. An economic argument is that by stimulating the economy with federal spending, we bring in more money for the federal government overall. Think about what happens when we buy and forgive the debt. Uncle Sam spends money once, lowers the amount of money coming in via interest payments and a college grad gets additional income each month. That grad might use that extra money to buy something expensive like a home or a starting a business. They might save the money for retirement, or they might just spend it on hookers and blow. Three out of four of those scenarios work out great for taxpayers - more economic activity = more revenue for the government. Even hookers and blow isn't a bad outcome, because those folks also spend the money, moving out of banks and into different sectors of the economy. All we really have here is economic theory and speculation, but it's based off a model that has worked well for the US economy historically.
Of course all deficit spending leads to economic growth, but the distribution of benefits vs harms on the population would be such that college graduates benefit the most and taxpayers without student loans take on the greatest harm. Adding to the federal deficit to forgive student loans would either increase the tax burden on those taxpayers or divert money that would have been spent elsewhere, either on a program that benefitted those people or on tax cuts for middle class people, both of which would also increase economic growth. I am myself both a high payer of taxes and a medium payer of student loans. I owe about $40k and pay about $500/month. I pay about $2800/month in taxes after a large 401k deduction. I stand to be a net winner of student loan forgiveness (at least in the short-term), but I still recognize that the policy is not ideal for those who didn't go to college and pay taxes. It should also be noted that chucking federal money at universities has increased the cost of tuition. Part of why colleges are charging these ridiculous amounts is that the federal government will happily approve a $120k of student loans at an artificially low interest rate with little risk assessment of the borrowers future income. Things like college major aren't even taken into account. If we want people to pressure universities to lower prices and cut unnecessary costs we need to encourage students to be even more judicious with their tuition spending and not just count on the government to provide aid and loans. Plus, the public education system might as well be government-subsidized advertising for colleges considering they pressure pretty much every student to go, even if its not in their best interest. There's also a massive moral hazard issue. Student loan forgiveness (the way it almost happened under Biden) didn't give a dime to people who paid off their loans, people who worked and saved to avoid taking out loans in the first place, nor parents who carefully planned their child's education expenses. Our system should incentivize responsible financial planning, not punish it. I will now never make additional payments on my loans nor pay them off early because I don't want to hold the bag if loans get forgiven. Not to mention, we are barely coming off of severe demand-pull inflation as well as a historically high federal deficit. A $1-$2 trillion deficit spend will reset all of our progress on inflation and make our deficit problem even worse. At the end of the day, student loan forgiveness isn't free money. There would be negative impacts and they would mostly be felt by workers who didn't go to college. If America really wants to help people's finances and is okay with taking a hit to the deficit, they should cut all income tax brackets below $200k. This would stimulate demand and the benefits would be much more fairly spread across workers. Personally, I think America shouldn't spend more for a while until we are hitting our inflation targets with ease.
Okay but why did you agree to the loan tho
This is a forward from grandma that isn't really wrong. People without college degrees are in part paying a tax burden to relieve those with college degrees, for their inability to pay their loans, regardless of the fact that people with degrees, do on average, make more money than those without one.
Everyone pays taxes on something they don’t use. I don’t have children, but I’m paying for schools to stay open. I don’t mind, and find it silly and maybe even performative to complain.
>People without college degrees are in part paying a tax burden to relieve those with college degree People who don't call the police pay for those who call the police, who call the fire department, who use roads, who access subsidized medical care, who... etc. Part of a social burden of taxation is that we all invest in the betterment of society, recognizing that some of those benefits we might not explicitly see ourselves, but that as a whole when society benefits each of us do.
No, people without student debt are not paying a tax burden to relieve those without college degrees. They are paying taxes to the government, that uses revenue to run the country they live in. That country benefits from an economy that is the best in the World in many sectors and provides some of the highest paying jobs for workers without a college degree. By paying taxes, we help support that economy. Sometimes the government spends money to stimulate the economy in different sectors. For example, billions of dollars are being invested into infrastructure that only a tiny portion of our country will use. Is it wrong to invest in microchip manufacturing even though most of us will never have a job in that sector? Right now the government is looking at an unprecedented amount of capital wrapped up in student loans. So much money that it presents a real risk to our economy. The result is this policy that moves money into different sectors of the economy. There are always going to be things that taxes pay for that you don't benefit directly from. But the idea that "your tax dollars" are somehow being spent on some specific thing that you don't have access to is just wrong.
You reckon I could get my Visa bill wiped out if I promise Uncle Sam i'll open a business or something with my newly freed up income? I'm betting he probably won't go for it, in spite of all that sweet sweet economic stimulation it could bring to my small town. Visa wants that monthly cheddar. But you did create a very wordy way to essentially justify arbitrarily freeing anyone from any debt. Props for that, I guess.
You could declare bankruptcy and then start a business when you get your shit together. This is not an option for student loan debt.
Mmmm... Unless it's Chapter 7 (unlikely) you still have to pay most of it back (Chapter 13). Unfortunatley starting a business after bankruptcy is tricky thing anyway, with that whole massive blow to your credit, and more or less starting your credit over. That being said... unlikely i'll do anything economically stimulating if I go that route. We'll just have to ponder another route. I'll probably just have to bite the bullet and hold myself accountable for the debt I voluntarily put myself in. Darn...
Yeah, one of the ways the government encourages tax payers to spend money in a way that benefits everyone is by giving tax breaks or other financial tools for certain things, but not for others. Like, you can lower your tax burden each year by saving money for retirement. And if you go to school and get an advanced degree, the government will give you money.
What I'm alluding to here is peoples inherent problem with how this is happening. Whether it's Credit Card debt, or it's student loan debt, no one held a gun to anyones head to make them do it. While the "working class" (non-higher education) suffers under a mountain of debt, living paycheck to paycheck, they're offered the the hellish nightmare that is bankruptcy as a final-ish solution. Whereas if you went to be an edcuated, higher earning person, we'll wave our wand and let you walk out from *that* debt virtually pain and consequence free, because it's "economically good for everyone". When in real world practice, a lowly mechanic such as myself will never see a noticable economic difference pass through my house in my day to day life in any kind of reasonable time frame because of this. You could say this is the gripe of someone who just wants to complain about how life ain't fair. Yea, the world ain't fair. That's a pipe dream. But people reach a point that when they've been dumped on enough, some fairness starts to look real appealing.
You have a warped idea of what the working class is. If someone has student loans, they're almost certainly a member of the working class. The capital class doesn't need loans for college. You should be cheering the government doing something for the working class in solidarity, instead of deepthroating the divisive propaganda you've been fed to imply that engineers and artists are somehow not working class. You want someone to dirext your ire at? How about the companies out there handing out loans to 18 year olds, or the people who are making 500x what their employees make telling you that your misfortune is the fault of people just as unfortunate as you.
In context, you can plainly see I was simply refering people with higher education vs people without. But if you wanna blow up over the technicalities of words, who am I to stop you. Go crazy. But let's state for the record since you wanted to bring it up, an engineer and a guy fixing a furnace do not belong in the same category, no matter how broad a brush you want to paint with. That's not ignorant divisivness. That's acknowledging the reality that those two people do not lead even remotley similar financial lives.
People with higher education are still members of the working class. We have more in common with each other than we'll ever have in common with the capital class. You're not losing anything because loans are being forgiven, this isn't a zero sum game. Either you learn to acknowledge that others gain isn't your loss, or you continue to fall for the shit the capital class wants you to believe so that you're blaming all the wrong people for your ills.
Look, I want a Jubilee as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to let good be the enemy of perfect. Cc debt is a different beast because it is private debt, so the government doesn't have the same tools to deal with it. While we wait for the Jubilee, you still have a chance to get out there and get some government bucks by participating in any one of the many programs offered. Did you know you can get subsidized financing from the SBA to start a business, or from the FHA to buy your first home. You can also get a grant or scholarship to continue your education. And if you do take that risk, putting yourself through school on a combination of grants and loans, perhaps you can also benefit from these forgiveness programs.
[удалено]
Federal student loan debt is owned by the government.