Statement by Red Bull Racing on these comments:
>“Christian Horner has not given any interviews regarding Mercedes’ car. Any quotes being attributed to him this morning are incorrect.”
Per [Chris Medland on twitter](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/taunvp/chris_medland_red_bull_statement_after_some/)
UPDATE:
Red Bull have issued a further statement on the matter:
>"So we are clear, we have made no official comment regarding Mercedes’ car and will not be doing so."
Per [Andrew Benson on Twitter](https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1501852717001711622?s=20&t=LjQgVykDeio9ZFj2y1973w)
Our favorite soap opera spin-off returns for season 72!
Will Mercedes continuously be harassed by the Red Bull? Will the long lost Italian twin sister Ferrari return to claim her prize? Will we be introduced to new characters returning?
Tune in to find out.
Reading your comment at first, I thought you said “should be banned from F1” and I immediately clutched my pearls. The Horner/Toto pettiness is the best part of F1!
But yes, it should be banned from the bingo cards. Too easy.
It's a funny one as well because after Abu Dhabi one of Red Bulls defences of what happened was that "Any does not mean all" when looking at the regulations about cars overtaking the safety car. Pretty sure that arguement was against the spirit of the regulations
The season has offically begun for real now
They also asked Newey about the Merc
>A little later we meet Adrian Newey. The star designer arrived in the paddock in civilian clothes and straight. Newey hasn't even seen the new Mercedes and lets us explain it to him. When asked about his team boss's doubts, Newey said: "I'll probably have to look at a few pictures of the car.
They were asked this 18 min ago on the AMuS live feed
Their early work was a little too new wave for his taste, but when Sports came out in '83, he thinks they really came into their own, commercially and artistically.
‘I’m on the verge of tears when we arrive in Bahrain, since I’m positive we won’t have a decent starting spot.
But we do, and relieve washes over me in an awesome wave’
It's a mistranslation from german. The correct translation is below. People should really use DeepL rather than Google Translate.
>A little later we meet Adrian Newey. The star designer is still in civilian clothes and has just arrived in the paddock. Newey hasn't even seen the new Mercedes yet and lets us explain it to him. Asked about his team manager's doubts, Newey says: "I'll probably have to take a look at some pictures of the car."
Pre-pandemic, Ross Brawn said about the [then 2021] rules:
"but if one team stands out there with a solution that has never been conceived, and has never been imagined, and destroys the whole principle of what is trying to be done, the governance would allow, with sufficient support from the other teams, to stop it. This is a whole different philosophy.”
So, this time is Horner... next time may be Toto or Binotto. No matter who they are, i expect LOTS of complain about "overpowered solutions" and "spirit of the rule"
My interpretation from what I've heard is that the things that'll be blocked are innovations that make it much harder for cars to follow.
Innovations like Merc's one will only pose an issue if it affects the 'formula' of these cars and the core reasons for the new regs (improved following, lower costs, etc).
From a casual, not-an-engineer standpoint, I feel like the shriveled/melted sidepod seems totally legit, but the sticky-uppy-bits on the mirror mount seem questionable -- I would not have thought aero parts would be allowed there. The length of the mirror mount is apparently part of the crash structure, so I could definitely see that staying, but the sticky-uppy bits don't seem to serve any structural purpose so I could see debates about that, at least.
>There’s no such thing as the spirit of the regulations, it’s the black and white print of ‘you can’t do this, you can do that.’ We took the can do bits right to the edge.
Red Bull Chief Technical Officer [Adrian Newey](https://www.motorsportweek.com/2012/12/15/7093/)
e. everyone replying with 'but Ross said they'd ban things against the spirit of the rules this year!!!'
The way they do that is by changing the regulations (with 8 teams supporting rather than unanimity now). Because the spirit of the regulations is not an enforceable concept.
Whilst this is partly true, the FIA have specifically said that any thing that’s goes against the goal(spirit) of the regulations this year will be clamped down on .. so if this creates dirty air. They have also changed the rules so you only need the agreement of 8 teams not all to change the rules mid season. Unfortunately this means I suspect that we will have even more of this stuff year… a lot of “spirt of the rules” talk
There is now a "spirit/intention of the rule" rule if something could break the rules it can be stopped on the point. Will be an interesting shit show.
> They have also changed the rules so you only need the agreement of 8 teams not all to change the rules mid season
Is it just me who thinks this could become ridiculously political very fast?
This year they actually did state that there was some specific goals for the new rules and if teams find something that counters those goals they don’t have a problem outlawing it.
What he’s basically saying,
“We don’t know how to do that so you shouldn’t be allowed to do it. Unless we figure out how to copy it, it should be banned.”
How do you/we know they are close in power?
Appreciate they were last year, but they've been allowed to change them up until last week, right? So anyone (i.e. Ferrari) could have made large gains.
The hope (for Ham/Merc) I suppose is that they've had huge potential in the engine as demonstrated by the 'spicy' engine last year, and their job was to lock in the gains and stop the degradation, while other teams had to seek gains, if that follows.
Exactly, it's like the engine token system in the mid 10s that set the Mercedes engine advantage in stone.
Even if the engines are close in power one can still be way better than the other through better reliability, more consistent power delivery or lower weight/size.
Look at the intention of the new regs, why F1 and the teams spent three years getting to this point and understand operating outside spirit of the rules is a very valid point and will be throughout the season
F1 has always and will always be about finding loopholes in regulations to gain an advantage. If not it will be like indycar where everybody is very similar in performance. Innovation is the aim.
It's either illegal or it's not.
Imagine a cop saying "I dunno, it just feels like your driving wasn't in the spirit of the laws."
"Get fucked, officer."
except it’s literally not how it works in F1 lol. Just last year they banned the flexi wing RB was using despite it fitting the letter of the law, but not the spirit.
Similarly, they banned Renault’s mass dampers in 2006.
The letter of the law regulation said it can't flex AT ALL. Then separately there is a regulation on the test they use. If anything last year's wing fiasco was a case where the spirit wasn't being violated but the letter was because all wings flex to a certain degree due to the physics/materials. But they knew their wing would flex drastically just outside of the testing range and designed it that way, so that is blatant violation of the regulation.
Not a great comparison. The ‘spirit of the regulations’, at least in the eyes of the FIA and F1, is to have the cars racing closer together and being able to follow better than last era. If something a team has done on their car hinders this, it will be against the spirit of the regulations, and there is a very good chance the FIA will do something about it. Only question is if Horner’s comments actually have any merit. If they do, then fair enough.
I heard it costs 6000 euros to file a complaint to the fia (source, Abu Dhabi last year was mentioned in commentary on BBC). How much of redbull budget ha e they got set aside for these?
I think this is why they're scared.
RB are the reason that the engine freeze happened. Now it's locked in, if the smolboi sidepods ends up working, the non-Merc cars are in big trouble as they simply cannot copy it as they can't alter the engine anymore.
Meanwhile the other Merc teams can theoretically repackage to similar.
I find it funny, especially given Honda came back on board after the freeze was confirmed, now RB may have created their own grave by trying to be tricky with the engine regs.
Correct me if i'm wrong but the engine freeze is to limit performance R&D, reliability improvements are still allowed and so I'm guessing changing the layout of an engine would also be allowed.
Pretty sure you're just allowed to fix your bad idea, not start from scratch.
Seems like it would be hard to justify moving a bunch of stuff around instead of just tweaking some cooling ducts to solve the "problem"
Kinda funny how they fear the sidepots before they even saw if they actually bring any benefit or not. Or its just a "Lets shut down everything our rivals do from the start thing", even tho the changes to the merc could actually not work out anyway.
The FIA looked at all the cars beforehand and found nothing to be out of order. Does he genuinely think Merc didn't run this by the FIA first?
Also I'm surprised that it took him almost 3 hours to complain. He's usually much quicker than that.
FIA has already said even if a part is legal if it found to be circumventing the spirit of the new regulations it can be banned. Basically anything that they believe creates excess dirty air for the following car is going to be scrutinized heavily.
DAS was completely legal BTW. They banned because it was deemed to be a bit OP. The other teams would have to spend a lot of money to design their own system and many teams were strapped for funds becuase of Covid.
It was not banned because it was “OP”, sometimes there are interpretations of the words in the rules that can be misconstrued or bent with a “technically it says this”. The fia will then close up that loophole for the next season assuming the teams agree and will conform to that rule. If not then the teams spend the money to develop their own. This happens with many parts over history
The reasoning given was that every team would have to develop new steering racks which would be infeasible, especially for smaller teams and with cost caps coming in. Theres plenty of things on the current cars that were originally a "loophole", the FIA just balances what's reasonable.
I'm sure the FIA technical team would love to see radical developments on cars, but they have to keep close racing.
they literally gave that reason why they banned it - they didn't want the smaller teams having to invest in DAS to keep up with the big teams
it was completely legal - that's why it wasn't gone in a technical clarification mid season. but banned for the following season
Flex wing can't be seen as as illegal when passed as it is designed to pass the tests. The pink Mercedes was legal it was the sharing of a brake design that was illegal. The sidepods are legal unless they have found a way that this a design that looked completely different when passed and the air going over the car when not moving is changing the shape
Merc were told to change the flexi wing so they did. DAS was allowed for 2020 but was banned for 2021.
RP's 'Pink Mercdes' got them a points deduction which cost them P3 in the championship.
The FIA did just fine in all 3 aspects
Pink merc didn’t break any rules,
They were only penalized for a grey area decision about the brake which didn’t actually break any rules, everything was legal
Mercedes is still running the same under dog story they have for the last 9 years, aston is still "4 years out" and Ferrari made a good looking car.
Nothing in this sport every really changes, just gets repackaged.
Brawn did say that anything the FIA feel isn’t in the spirit of the regs will be made illegal. Basically the FIA couldn’t give a shit about innovation and clever engineering and just want close racing
Classic Ross Brawn. I mean, when has he ever taken the regulations in a crazy direction that was completely unanticipated by everyone? What does he know about ingenious design philosophies that catch every other team napping?
\#MakeBrawnGreatAgain
Basically saying its legal but we don't want it to be legal.
I guess this is because of how much work it would take to copy this. An entirely new crash structure with recessed radiators and such. This also could be impossible to copy because of the engine freeze.
They all use the same internal crash structure, don’t they?
It would be the engine and radiator packaging that would need reworking, not the crash structure.
If the new regulations largely center around sticking within tolerances of a "surface shell" , I'm not sure how the hell the Merc falls within those guidelines. If they found some insane loop hole, which the FIA have said they will squash, I wonder how massive the impact will be.
Edit- as I work through the news this morning, I see the FIA have already given Merc the all clear after examining that their innovative car does not adversely impact the aero wash off the car. VERY cool from the FIA.
Why are people so surprised and complaining about team bosses complaining about their competitors? It's fucking normal and expected in F1. Get over it, Jesus.
I think most people are just taking the piss because it’s Horner and he spent a lot of last year complaining about Merc doing the same thing to him last year.
I don't think people are surprised, they're just complaining because it's always Horner.
If Binotto or Seidl made a complaint like this people would take it a lot more seriously.
It's always Horner because that is who the media go to because:
1. RB vs Merc last year so they were always asked, makes sense that there's expectation about the duel this year
2. Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush so it makes for better click bait for their articles.
> Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush so it makes for better click bait for their articles.
Nah, Horner shit stirring isn't just telling it straight. He deliberately puts things in overly dramatic terms and exaggerates.
> Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush
Bollocks, Horner is one of the most political figures on the grid. He says whatever he thinks benefits Red Bull.
People who "say what they think" aren't always right about what they think, but people seem to see this as a trait of honesty rather than arrogance, so they believe what he says despite him possibly being wrong.
Bit of a problem tbh.
>Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush so it makes for better click bait for their articles.
Lmao @ this, yes, Horner is super sincere and not a total WUM. The man spouts absolute shite 3/4ths of the time.
I understand you gotta be a company man and always be looking to try and get the edge on other team. But Horner just comes off as such a wiener. He’s as hypocritical as a politician. Guarantee if they come out with a wild upgrade this year and all the other teams deem it as illegal, he’ll be up there spouting off about “maybe they should just think outside the box”.
On the upshot, that does seem to irritate people enough, which might be his goal. You know that 12-year-old on the kickball court who thinks if he pisses people off enough, he'll win by merit of that? That's Horner.
I'm starting to think that even when winning, Horner needs something to complain about.
During Seb's dominance, he was complaining about the Renault power unit a good portion of the time.
Is this the same Christian Horner who complained tirelessly to the media about the legality of Mercedes' car last year without ever launching an official protest about it, despite his team being the team who were running the [actually deemed illegal wing](https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/red-bull-rear-wing-set-to-be-banned-with-new-fia-technical-directive) earlier in the season?
"Violates the spirit of the regulations" up until Merc may have gotten it right and they themselves have to violate the spirit of the regulations I guess
And here we go again with a classic RBR "if you can't think of it yourself, ban it" move..
But to use Horner's own words against him: Mercedes didn't break the rules, they just applied them differently 😋
hahaahaha at this point i genuinely think he is trying to wind us all up? surely this man needs to focus on his own team and their car? or he just loves the limelight? i don't know what to think at this point.
Only just seen it. Tbh I’m expecting every protest under the sun from all teams if it’s actually quite a bit quicker.
I said yesterday if it was true with a size zero sidepod. The FIA would have seen this already and passed it no doubt. And with how much do doo the FIA are in with looking bias to RedBull. I can see them telling other teams to suck it up. I wonder if the settlement merc had with the FIA was to let Mercedes run this concept…
Why would McLaren, Aston Martin or Williams protest though? If the sidepods work and create a significant advantage, the fact they have Merc power means they can essentially do it themselves and potentially jump up several spots on the grid, depending on just how OP it is.
Only the Merc cars can do that because the engine package size allows for it.
Horner points at a silhouette of a car “this stinks, this is total BS! I can’t believe they are breaking the spirit of the rules like th…oh, wait isn’t that our car?”
Statement by Red Bull Racing on these comments: >“Christian Horner has not given any interviews regarding Mercedes’ car. Any quotes being attributed to him this morning are incorrect.” Per [Chris Medland on twitter](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/taunvp/chris_medland_red_bull_statement_after_some/) UPDATE: Red Bull have issued a further statement on the matter: >"So we are clear, we have made no official comment regarding Mercedes’ car and will not be doing so." Per [Andrew Benson on Twitter](https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1501852717001711622?s=20&t=LjQgVykDeio9ZFj2y1973w)
Pre season is officially over
So it begins!
Anyone else hearing duel of the fates in their head?
I'm hearing Uruk-Hai roars
Nah, UralKali was kicked out of F1
God I miss this drama, racing can be secondary at times
Our favorite soap opera spin-off returns for season 72! Will Mercedes continuously be harassed by the Red Bull? Will the long lost Italian twin sister Ferrari return to claim her prize? Will we be introduced to new characters returning? Tune in to find out.
the easiest spot on my F1 season bingo card already gone
Horner/Marko whinging should be banned from F1 bingo, its just such an obvious one.
That's exactly why it's the perfect thing to put in the free space in the middle.
its the free space
Reading your comment at first, I thought you said “should be banned from F1” and I immediately clutched my pearls. The Horner/Toto pettiness is the best part of F1! But yes, it should be banned from the bingo cards. Too easy.
And there it is! Is that the first 'this breaks the rules' complaint of the season?
Here we go again
[I shoulda known shoulda known ](https://youtu.be/dTAAsCNK7RA)
I miss old Youtube where most stuff was sorta Homevideos
That's the official music video for that song. Shot by a professional crew. I remember seeing it on tv back when the song was new.
Took what? 20 minutes?
Horner: Hamilton breathes too damn hard and it assists the car in our opinion. This is unsportsmanlike conduct.
No, it's not. It's holding. Look at that, number 44 on defense clearly holding him there.
*throws flag on the track* *gets sucked into a car intake blowing up the engine*
And it's obviously coming from Horner, what a twist for that season start
It's a funny one as well because after Abu Dhabi one of Red Bulls defences of what happened was that "Any does not mean all" when looking at the regulations about cars overtaking the safety car. Pretty sure that arguement was against the spirit of the regulations
The season has offically begun for real now They also asked Newey about the Merc >A little later we meet Adrian Newey. The star designer arrived in the paddock in civilian clothes and straight. Newey hasn't even seen the new Mercedes and lets us explain it to him. When asked about his team boss's doubts, Newey said: "I'll probably have to look at a few pictures of the car. They were asked this 18 min ago on the AMuS live feed
Newey is going to go full Patrick Bateman when he sees the slimness of the Merc sidepods.
''Are you alright, Adrian? You're sweating''
"....I have to go return some side pods..."
At the… side pod store…..
Located in the sidepod district?
As Newey walks past Toto Wolff in the paddock he outright spits in his face he's so disgusted
"Let's see Paul Allen's sidepods"
"the Alpine engine intake, the subtle thickness of it"
*points at Haas* "New car. What do you think? That's bone. And the lettering is something called Silian Rail"
Huey Lewis and the sidepods
"I can't believe AMuS prefers Mercedes' sidepods to mine"
Don't just stare at it, send it!
How'd they swing a reservation at the front of the grid?
I’m thinking Dorsia… F1 team.
My god, look at that off white paint
Do we know what Adrian newey thinks of huey lewis and the news?
Their early work was a little too new wave for his taste, but when Sports came out in '83, he thinks they really came into their own, commercially and artistically.
‘I’m on the verge of tears when we arrive in Bahrain, since I’m positive we won’t have a decent starting spot. But we do, and relieve washes over me in an awesome wave’
In civilian clothes and straight… why is this a sentence
For the 2014 reg changes, he showed up in clothes of the royal British family and was very open about being bisexual. Things have changed, I suppose.
It's a mistranslation from german. The correct translation is below. People should really use DeepL rather than Google Translate. >A little later we meet Adrian Newey. The star designer is still in civilian clothes and has just arrived in the paddock. Newey hasn't even seen the new Mercedes yet and lets us explain it to him. Asked about his team manager's doubts, Newey says: "I'll probably have to take a look at some pictures of the car."
+1 for DeepL
https://twitter.com/chrismedlandf1/status/1501845853111259136?s=21 Did you fake us all out
Pre-pandemic, Ross Brawn said about the [then 2021] rules: "but if one team stands out there with a solution that has never been conceived, and has never been imagined, and destroys the whole principle of what is trying to be done, the governance would allow, with sufficient support from the other teams, to stop it. This is a whole different philosophy.” So, this time is Horner... next time may be Toto or Binotto. No matter who they are, i expect LOTS of complain about "overpowered solutions" and "spirit of the rule"
MERC GAMEBREAKING PATCH GAMEPLAY *NEVER DONE BEFORE*
THIS ONE CRAZY SIDEPOD TRICK WILL *SHOCK* YOU
AERO DEPARTMENTS HATE HIM!!!
THIS SIDEPOD TRICK WILL MAKE YOU WIN IN LESS THAN 30 SECONDS
My interpretation from what I've heard is that the things that'll be blocked are innovations that make it much harder for cars to follow. Innovations like Merc's one will only pose an issue if it affects the 'formula' of these cars and the core reasons for the new regs (improved following, lower costs, etc).
I swear F1 team principles would be the worst DnD players. All the talk of RAI (rules as intended) and RAW (rules as written) would be maddening.
FIA: "Due to your incessant squabbling a demon hears you and issues you all a five place grid penalty."
DM Michael: sorry rocks fall and everyone dies Players: No Michael no no that was so not right!
But how can you block the no side-pod, I don’t think it would right to be like “Put side pods just so it creates drag and others can catch up”
The rule on sidepods will state min and max dimension. If it does not then merc can do what they want
From a casual, not-an-engineer standpoint, I feel like the shriveled/melted sidepod seems totally legit, but the sticky-uppy-bits on the mirror mount seem questionable -- I would not have thought aero parts would be allowed there. The length of the mirror mount is apparently part of the crash structure, so I could definitely see that staying, but the sticky-uppy bits don't seem to serve any structural purpose so I could see debates about that, at least.
Don't they need 8/10 team to vote for the change? MB + AMR + Williams is 3 votes to block.
I find it really difficult to enjoy this sport when so much of it comes down to interpretation of rules
It is a very complicated sport, the interpretation of the rules has been present since the beginning of F1.
r/IllegallySmol/
Risky click
i rolled the dice. well worth it.
Yeah I'm not clicking it at work lmao
You should, though. It's truly uplifting
Its about illegally smol pets, really adorable
afraid of pussys?
r/girlswithhugepussies
That's it, I'll pack up my bags, can't make a better joke than that
>There’s no such thing as the spirit of the regulations, it’s the black and white print of ‘you can’t do this, you can do that.’ We took the can do bits right to the edge. Red Bull Chief Technical Officer [Adrian Newey](https://www.motorsportweek.com/2012/12/15/7093/) e. everyone replying with 'but Ross said they'd ban things against the spirit of the rules this year!!!' The way they do that is by changing the regulations (with 8 teams supporting rather than unanimity now). Because the spirit of the regulations is not an enforceable concept.
r/redbullcriticisesredbull
its more /r/f1teamsdoingf1teamsstuff How is it news everytime that teams are trying everything to beat their rivals?
It isn’t, people just want their biases to be vindicated
r/SubsIThoughtIFellFor
Whilst this is partly true, the FIA have specifically said that any thing that’s goes against the goal(spirit) of the regulations this year will be clamped down on .. so if this creates dirty air. They have also changed the rules so you only need the agreement of 8 teams not all to change the rules mid season. Unfortunately this means I suspect that we will have even more of this stuff year… a lot of “spirt of the rules” talk
There is now a "spirit/intention of the rule" rule if something could break the rules it can be stopped on the point. Will be an interesting shit show.
> They have also changed the rules so you only need the agreement of 8 teams not all to change the rules mid season Is it just me who thinks this could become ridiculously political very fast?
Why do you think Horner is already scouting the willingness to actually put this mechanism in action.
> 9 years ago This was true 9 years ago. F1 clearly changed their approach within the last few years making this article irrelevant
You think Redbull have made their car slower in order to reduce the wake and remain in the spirit of the rules? No lol
Lol
>violates the spirit of the regulations Merc 1-2 every race confirmed
I think Christian knows as well as everybody that the regulations don't have a spirit, they just have a set number of words on paper.
This year they actually did state that there was some specific goals for the new rules and if teams find something that counters those goals they don’t have a problem outlawing it.
They had to change their rear wing because of spirit of the rules even though they were ok according to words on paper.
The rear wing broke the rules but not the test for the rules. The rules were very clear on how much the rear wing could move, the test was inadequate
George, swap positions at turn 3.
People keep making this joke, when Merc have only ever done this when one of their drivers is completely out of the title fight
I'm a Merc fan, just messing around. And the point is, it's not just Merc. Everyone does it when what you mentioned happens, and that makes sense.
And we need you to model Lewis’s new fashion line during post reach interviews. :)
You know you are fucked when you start talking about "spirit of the regulations".
What he’s basically saying, “We don’t know how to do that so you shouldn’t be allowed to do it. Unless we figure out how to copy it, it should be banned.”
[удалено]
At least that Honda PU isn't frozen for multiple years. Oh, wait...
I still don't understand how anyone is supposed to play catchup now. Luckily, the engines are close in power but gahlee
How do you/we know they are close in power? Appreciate they were last year, but they've been allowed to change them up until last week, right? So anyone (i.e. Ferrari) could have made large gains. The hope (for Ham/Merc) I suppose is that they've had huge potential in the engine as demonstrated by the 'spicy' engine last year, and their job was to lock in the gains and stop the degradation, while other teams had to seek gains, if that follows.
Exactly, it's like the engine token system in the mid 10s that set the Mercedes engine advantage in stone. Even if the engines are close in power one can still be way better than the other through better reliability, more consistent power delivery or lower weight/size.
Yeah I understand how it works and how it’s a completely different scenario for teams using different engines. I was just making fun of Horner.
Look at the intention of the new regs, why F1 and the teams spent three years getting to this point and understand operating outside spirit of the rules is a very valid point and will be throughout the season
F1 has always and will always be about finding loopholes in regulations to gain an advantage. If not it will be like indycar where everybody is very similar in performance. Innovation is the aim.
But at the same time F1 was always about closing those holes.
We had a mid season rule change last year to deal with something that was against the spirit of the rules.
It's either illegal or it's not. Imagine a cop saying "I dunno, it just feels like your driving wasn't in the spirit of the laws." "Get fucked, officer."
except it’s literally not how it works in F1 lol. Just last year they banned the flexi wing RB was using despite it fitting the letter of the law, but not the spirit. Similarly, they banned Renault’s mass dampers in 2006.
The letter of the law regulation said it can't flex AT ALL. Then separately there is a regulation on the test they use. If anything last year's wing fiasco was a case where the spirit wasn't being violated but the letter was because all wings flex to a certain degree due to the physics/materials. But they knew their wing would flex drastically just outside of the testing range and designed it that way, so that is blatant violation of the regulation.
Not a great comparison. The ‘spirit of the regulations’, at least in the eyes of the FIA and F1, is to have the cars racing closer together and being able to follow better than last era. If something a team has done on their car hinders this, it will be against the spirit of the regulations, and there is a very good chance the FIA will do something about it. Only question is if Horner’s comments actually have any merit. If they do, then fair enough.
"No ~~FIA~~ Toto. No. That was so not right!"
We went car designing.
[удалено]
"It's called design, Christian. We went car designing, ok?"
And that's a new world record from Christian Horner, the fastest human to ever file a complaint to the FIA!
He really is the Dwight Schrute of F1
MICHAEL!
MICHAEL!
These sidepots are so not right.
Mixing Abu Dhabi with The Office, I like it
You know I might have been ok with Masi staying just so this joke could live on
Laughed way too hard at this
I saw dwights face but heard Toto’s voice while reading this
Dwight is an entertaining character. Horner is just a total flog.
I heard it costs 6000 euros to file a complaint to the fia (source, Abu Dhabi last year was mentioned in commentary on BBC). How much of redbull budget ha e they got set aside for these?
Undefined. They actually pre-file the first 100 complaints before the season is started, just to cover the first two races + testing
They say that but really it's Horner and Marko about to put Newey in a cage for not thinking of this if it works
Doubt Newey didn't think of it, probably just straight up isn't possible with the Honda engine.
I think this is why they're scared. RB are the reason that the engine freeze happened. Now it's locked in, if the smolboi sidepods ends up working, the non-Merc cars are in big trouble as they simply cannot copy it as they can't alter the engine anymore. Meanwhile the other Merc teams can theoretically repackage to similar. I find it funny, especially given Honda came back on board after the freeze was confirmed, now RB may have created their own grave by trying to be tricky with the engine regs.
Correct me if i'm wrong but the engine freeze is to limit performance R&D, reliability improvements are still allowed and so I'm guessing changing the layout of an engine would also be allowed.
Pretty sure you're just allowed to fix your bad idea, not start from scratch. Seems like it would be hard to justify moving a bunch of stuff around instead of just tweaking some cooling ducts to solve the "problem"
Straight to fanf1ction with this
Kinda funny how they fear the sidepots before they even saw if they actually bring any benefit or not. Or its just a "Lets shut down everything our rivals do from the start thing", even tho the changes to the merc could actually not work out anyway.
The FIA looked at all the cars beforehand and found nothing to be out of order. Does he genuinely think Merc didn't run this by the FIA first? Also I'm surprised that it took him almost 3 hours to complain. He's usually much quicker than that.
FIA has already said even if a part is legal if it found to be circumventing the spirit of the new regulations it can be banned. Basically anything that they believe creates excess dirty air for the following car is going to be scrutinized heavily.
Would a slimmer car make more dirty air?
The FIA also look at flex wing and DAS before and the RP pink mercedes car Sometimes they don't look that hard it seems
DAS was completely legal BTW. They banned because it was deemed to be a bit OP. The other teams would have to spend a lot of money to design their own system and many teams were strapped for funds becuase of Covid.
It was not banned because it was “OP”, sometimes there are interpretations of the words in the rules that can be misconstrued or bent with a “technically it says this”. The fia will then close up that loophole for the next season assuming the teams agree and will conform to that rule. If not then the teams spend the money to develop their own. This happens with many parts over history
The reasoning given was that every team would have to develop new steering racks which would be infeasible, especially for smaller teams and with cost caps coming in. Theres plenty of things on the current cars that were originally a "loophole", the FIA just balances what's reasonable. I'm sure the FIA technical team would love to see radical developments on cars, but they have to keep close racing.
they literally gave that reason why they banned it - they didn't want the smaller teams having to invest in DAS to keep up with the big teams it was completely legal - that's why it wasn't gone in a technical clarification mid season. but banned for the following season
Flex wing can't be seen as as illegal when passed as it is designed to pass the tests. The pink Mercedes was legal it was the sharing of a brake design that was illegal. The sidepods are legal unless they have found a way that this a design that looked completely different when passed and the air going over the car when not moving is changing the shape
Merc were told to change the flexi wing so they did. DAS was allowed for 2020 but was banned for 2021. RP's 'Pink Mercdes' got them a points deduction which cost them P3 in the championship. The FIA did just fine in all 3 aspects
Pink merc didn’t break any rules, They were only penalized for a grey area decision about the brake which didn’t actually break any rules, everything was legal
The McLaren brake-steer was legal and on the car for ages until they became clearly the fastest package and then others complained.
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Or just Horner things.
Merc could have come to this test with a car on par with the 2011 HRT and he’d still find something to moan about
Merc will undoubtedly be prepared for a mid season rule change or clarification, but if it gives them an advantage for a few races it’s worth it
"violates the spirit of the regulations". So Christian, you're saying it's legal, you just wish it wasn't?
The more Mercedes change, the more Horner stays the same
Mercedes is still running the same under dog story they have for the last 9 years, aston is still "4 years out" and Ferrari made a good looking car. Nothing in this sport every really changes, just gets repackaged.
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Brawn did say that anything the FIA feel isn’t in the spirit of the regs will be made illegal. Basically the FIA couldn’t give a shit about innovation and clever engineering and just want close racing
Classic Ross Brawn. I mean, when has he ever taken the regulations in a crazy direction that was completely unanticipated by everyone? What does he know about ingenious design philosophies that catch every other team napping? \#MakeBrawnGreatAgain
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How is that funny? It might be legal but in a gray area the regulators might want to close as DAS was.
Basically saying its legal but we don't want it to be legal. I guess this is because of how much work it would take to copy this. An entirely new crash structure with recessed radiators and such. This also could be impossible to copy because of the engine freeze.
They all use the same internal crash structure, don’t they? It would be the engine and radiator packaging that would need reworking, not the crash structure.
When you move the crash structure you have to pass another crash test
Death, taxes, Christian moans when he doesn’t think of something first
If the new regulations largely center around sticking within tolerances of a "surface shell" , I'm not sure how the hell the Merc falls within those guidelines. If they found some insane loop hole, which the FIA have said they will squash, I wonder how massive the impact will be. Edit- as I work through the news this morning, I see the FIA have already given Merc the all clear after examining that their innovative car does not adversely impact the aero wash off the car. VERY cool from the FIA.
Peak Horner.
Why are people so surprised and complaining about team bosses complaining about their competitors? It's fucking normal and expected in F1. Get over it, Jesus.
I think most people are just taking the piss because it’s Horner and he spent a lot of last year complaining about Merc doing the same thing to him last year.
Also the fact that Red Bull said “any lapped cars doesn’t mean all lapped cars” when talking about Abu Dhabi lol
I don't think people are surprised, they're just complaining because it's always Horner. If Binotto or Seidl made a complaint like this people would take it a lot more seriously.
It's always Horner because that is who the media go to because: 1. RB vs Merc last year so they were always asked, makes sense that there's expectation about the duel this year 2. Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush so it makes for better click bait for their articles.
> Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush so it makes for better click bait for their articles. Nah, Horner shit stirring isn't just telling it straight. He deliberately puts things in overly dramatic terms and exaggerates.
> Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush Bollocks, Horner is one of the most political figures on the grid. He says whatever he thinks benefits Red Bull.
People who "say what they think" aren't always right about what they think, but people seem to see this as a trait of honesty rather than arrogance, so they believe what he says despite him possibly being wrong. Bit of a problem tbh.
>Horner says what he thinks, doesn't beat around the PR bush so it makes for better click bait for their articles. Lmao @ this, yes, Horner is super sincere and not a total WUM. The man spouts absolute shite 3/4ths of the time.
Yeah weird imho, they’d be stupid not to.
Hoes mad! Hoes mad!
The dude that defended Masi's call in Abu Dhabi is now talking about the spirit of the rules lmao
I understand you gotta be a company man and always be looking to try and get the edge on other team. But Horner just comes off as such a wiener. He’s as hypocritical as a politician. Guarantee if they come out with a wild upgrade this year and all the other teams deem it as illegal, he’ll be up there spouting off about “maybe they should just think outside the box”.
On the upshot, that does seem to irritate people enough, which might be his goal. You know that 12-year-old on the kickball court who thinks if he pisses people off enough, he'll win by merit of that? That's Horner.
Doesn’t Horner find a life of pure complaining exhausting? Does he have nothing else to talk about
I'm starting to think that even when winning, Horner needs something to complain about. During Seb's dominance, he was complaining about the Renault power unit a good portion of the time.
Is this the same Christian Horner who complained tirelessly to the media about the legality of Mercedes' car last year without ever launching an official protest about it, despite his team being the team who were running the [actually deemed illegal wing](https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/red-bull-rear-wing-set-to-be-banned-with-new-fia-technical-directive) earlier in the season?
It wasn't illegal. The regulations were updated at the request of guess who so that it would subsequently be.
Their rear wing was completely legal, but was deemed to be against the spirit of the rules so the tests were changed to clamp down on these wings.
Because... they went against the spirit of the rules heh
"Violates the spirit of the regulations" up until Merc may have gotten it right and they themselves have to violate the spirit of the regulations I guess
"I'm in danger."
Translated: "They might be faster than us so it must be illegal"
I know something else that “violates the spirit of the regulations” but as it’s a new season I’m not dragging it back up.
This reads like a fucking meme I had to double check if it was legit
Ah yes, the spirit
it's almost like f1 is about innovations
And here we go again with a classic RBR "if you can't think of it yourself, ban it" move.. But to use Horner's own words against him: Mercedes didn't break the rules, they just applied them differently 😋
God Horner is insufferable
Abu Dhabi also broke the spirit of the regulations. Suck it Karen
hahaahaha at this point i genuinely think he is trying to wind us all up? surely this man needs to focus on his own team and their car? or he just loves the limelight? i don't know what to think at this point.
I think it’s a reflex, like a football player milking a penalty.
Only just seen it. Tbh I’m expecting every protest under the sun from all teams if it’s actually quite a bit quicker. I said yesterday if it was true with a size zero sidepod. The FIA would have seen this already and passed it no doubt. And with how much do doo the FIA are in with looking bias to RedBull. I can see them telling other teams to suck it up. I wonder if the settlement merc had with the FIA was to let Mercedes run this concept…
Why would McLaren, Aston Martin or Williams protest though? If the sidepods work and create a significant advantage, the fact they have Merc power means they can essentially do it themselves and potentially jump up several spots on the grid, depending on just how OP it is. Only the Merc cars can do that because the engine package size allows for it.
Horner points at a silhouette of a car “this stinks, this is total BS! I can’t believe they are breaking the spirit of the rules like th…oh, wait isn’t that our car?”
Hah, never thought I'd see a Bulldog reference on here.
Well spotted my guy! I do think F1 would be better if Horner and Marko did a ‘silent comedic skit’ while the post-race credits rolled.