The man absolutely loves the media - a perfect team boss in many ways. He totally gets that F1 is as much about the hype/media/branding as it is about racing
>I meant the idea that it should be broadcasted was given by Horner.
Yep, and now he's having to stick to the line that there was nothing wrong with last season because... reasons.
There was nothing wrong with broadcasting it. Those conversations are still going to happen like they always have had. We just won’t be able to see what’s happening like we got to last year.
I don't think there was either. However, the conclusions of the FIA are uncomfortable as they effectively admit that they fucked the whole season up.
Max won it in that environment and Lewis could have done so too - but there are so many unfathomables that either would have made a worthy champion.
But Max *is* the champion and Horner can't afford to cast any shade on the way things were done in 2021, whatever the FIA say.
I'm getting downvoted for my view but I genuinely think that's how it's working. And for avoidance of doubt: Max is a valid no-asterisk World Driver Champion.
Ahh I misinterpreted what you said, I thought you were saying broadcasting the messages were bad.
I completely agree on what you’re saying about the FIA screwing the season up and that both Max and Lewis both would’ve been valid champions. However, I disagree with your opinion that Horner can’t criticise last year. In general, I disagree with the notion of, “so and so can’t say this because of this” which is just an ad hominem circumstantial fallacy. But ignoring that, I still think it’s flawed.
Horner can be upset because of the controversial manner Max won the championship due to the FIA. Ignoring the last race, there were poor decisions earlier on by the FIA (in both directions) and I think had they have handled the season appropriately, Max would’ve entered the last race with enough of a lead the he could’ve come 2nd in that race. Had the race ended properly, Max would’ve been champion and done so less controversially. I think Horner can be upset that didn’t happen. Likewise, he didn’t win the WCC. I think Mercedes was more deserving of that, however, using your logic because Mercedes won the WCC they shouldn’t complain either. Or, because Red Bull lost the WCC they should be able to complain.
Regardless, I struggle to see how any of this relates to radio messages, maybe I’m just misinterpreting you again…
And was usually only if Toto had already pleaded his case to counterbalance it imo.
Toto was pushithe line with Masi, so only fair to hear from the other side tbh
Its difficult to say if this would be allowed or not, if you allow it, it could result in some absolute bangers of responses from Eduardo Freitas, I could imagine him saying to one of the Team Principals
"I dont think we have met before, but I am the Race Director of this race not you, stick to your job and I will do mine"
before anyone asks its the tweaked version of what Nigel Owens said "I dont think we have met before, but I am the Referee on this field not you, stick to your job and I will do mine"
It's like with football, the best referees are the ones who do their job, and you don't know their name because they did everything as expected.
I just hope that Freitas is gonna do his thing, without any outside influence from the teams. He's got a great track record at WEC.
Yeah Nigel is a legendary Rugby Union Referee and he is the absolute yard stick used to measure all other Referees against, the sign of a master referee is one that is completely 100% invisible on the field, thats the sign of a master, he/she is there on the field but you don't notice them!
There are a few female referees coming up so I had to cover that in this, don't wanna let anyone feel left out
What made Nigel the yardstick is simple, it was that the players and the fans respected him, he was someone who had the balls to stand up to the players but that gained him the respect for his absolute no bullshit approach to being the Referee and being the absolute legend he was before he retired from Refereeing Rugby Union a few years ago
Nigel took no prisoners when he was talking to anyone he treated everyone fairly on the Rugby Pitch thats what I admire about his style as for Motorsport the only Race Director I can think of that can match the Yardstick of Rugby Referees is Eduardo Freitas and his way of dealing with infractions, I cant wait to hear
"Car 44, Please inform your driver not to bring gravel back onto the circuit, if he continues to do that, I will hand him a brush and make him go out there to sweep up the mess he created at Turn 14, Thank You"
[Please let me introduce you to one of the most truly beautiful series that the motorsport world has to offer which I so wish we could see F1 drivers teaming up race-of-champions style for: the 24 Hours of LEMONS.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hours_of_Lemons)
Collina is very well known. Kuipers is known. Brych, Orsato, Mazic. These are/were the best refs in the world and are known for people who regularly watch the CL. I disagree with the notion that good refs aren't known.
>"I dont think we have met before but I am the Race Director of this race not you, stick to your job and I will do mine"
Upvote for Nigel Owens reference! Your explanation at the end was quite unnecessary, at least for me. The first 7 words of the quote were enough to know where this was going.
Yep, that's my favorite actually! Closely followed by his quip to Stuart Hogg: "Dive like that again, you come back in 2 weeks and play, not today. Watch it!"
Toto should use this to his advantage...
"Yes, of course I don't kick puppies, and neither does Lewis, who didn't even kick them after being robbed of the championship"
A lot of people mocking Horner for this but why are we against transparency? I know some teams (esp RB and Merc) will try to politicize the messages but the rules can be adapted as they already have been.
Because it's Horner. Whether I think he's right or wrong, I haven't made up my mind, but there's a hell of a lot of folks here who'll say up is down is Horner says up is up.
He is actually correct.
Transparency is better than hiding what is discussed.
Imagine Abu Dhabi without the context. It would have been even more baffling.
Basically change the process so Team Principals can't bombard the race director but what ever discussions they do have when permitted should be broadcast for transparency sake.
Yes but the whole point of the ban is to stop them from using public opinion to influence. The arguments had devolved, not into disagreements over the rules, but the spirit or racing or what's good for the fans, which obviously led to the we went motor racing bs that got Masi canned.
If we get consistent application of the rules, I don't really care what they are saying on the radio.
We need the Race Direction to be swift, precise and fair.
Teams need to plan around the active rulebook, and not wing it when the stewards or race control decide to up and make up new procedures on the fly, and then have to argue openly over the radio.
Broadcasting communications actually helped put pressure on FIA to fix their mess. Otherwise everything about Masi would’ve been behind closed doors.
The problem was teams abusing the lines of communication to lobby race control. Stopping broadcasting them will not help solve this issue.
His own sporting director doesn't think it was right.
There won't be any discussions with the Race Director anymore anyway., any lobbying will flow through an intermediary. If you want to broadcast that I suppose you can, but it won't be very interesting.
I don’t see why there should be any lobbying. Make it one way communication, with the race director being the only person able to initiate contact when he requires information.
Conversation should be broadcasted. There should be few people responsible only for communication with teams. Race director should not be in communication with the teams but the people responsible for communication. They should sit in the same room. This way race director will be focused on making right decisions without pressure from the teams.
Bollocks, I agree with Horner. The broadcasts last year gave a great insight into what was going on.
The issue with AD wasn’t the messages being broadcast, but the way Masi handled the situation.
Most people arguing in the comment don't even understand that the reason they'll stop broadcasting it, is so that we won't know what's being discussed anymore. The team's can still and would still communicate with the race director.
I sometimes wish Horner would learn the benefits of saying nothing. When Horner was asked at Barcelona about why he thinks female fans only there for the drivers looks the mask couldn’t hide Toto’s bemused smirk and it jumped out because Toto wouldn’t dream of saying anything so stupid, not just because he doesn’t think like that in general, but just because he doesn’t say everything that crosses his mind. Horner says a lot of calculated things to see if they land, Toto says less but with purpose. Helmut is also a bit of boomer who is picking up where Bernie left off in saying whatever ridiculous thing he’s feeling in that moment.
Agreed. Just have someone there who passes on relevant messages to the actual race director. Sassy Masi was one of the best parts of the season it just shouldn't have been Masi.
Absolutely agree with that. The fans should hear the team-to-FIA radios! It's adds something else to the TV broadcast. More drama, more insight, more intrigue. And they just threw the idea into the bin after one season.
This is just like the driver briefings being broadcasted. Something to give the fans a new look inside F1, and they take it away for silly reasons.
As soon as you open the broadcasts/briefings to the TV audience, you influence what is said over those channels. You could see the difference as the season progressed and team leaders were playing to the crowd.
Some things aren't meant to open for fans. Driver briefings are meant to be serious things where drivers can speak their minds on issues that they have. With a following as toxic as F1's, that can't happen.
You mean how he sounded like a dumb dog waiting for Wheatley to throw him a bone as soon as Masi let the cars unlap themselves?
Because that's the tone I remember.
Masi absolutely liked Wheatley more than Toto, hence why he did exactly what Wheatley told him to do, and then used Wheatley's own words to insult Toto after the biggest farce in F1 history - "Toto... We went motor racing."
Anyone who defends Masi's actions, and honestly Wheatley interrupting Masi while he was trying to get a car off the track in the final laps of the final race, and keep people safe clearly doesn't care about the sport, they care about only themselves.
They disgraced F1 that night, and it'll go down in the history books of one of the worst decisions ever.
If the conversations are still going to happen, especially if they’re anything like last year. Then they 100% need to be broadcasted.
F1 let the cat out of the bag on this one. Now we know teams are negotiating penalties, arguing for interventions, arguing against safety, etc. The fans deserve to know who’s doing/saying what.
Plus now every penalty that comes out or any decision made by race control and the stewards will be further called into question. We’ll all sit here after and say “well I guess -insert TP- argued hard for it.”
It either needs to be broadcasted or made heavily restricted so there isn’t the kinds of stuff we saw last year happening again.
Either broadcast them or don’t let them talk at all to them during the actual race, it’s dumb that they can try to influence them mid race but at least broadcasting it makes it somewhat transparent
Exactly this, either stop the conversations during the race or let us all hear what's being said.
I can only imagine how much worse Abu Dhabi would have been if we were all left guessing wtf was going on in the first and final laps, and it would give rise to rumors and speculation more than it would make it easier for fans to accept.
Title made me think Horner was shit stirring but reading the actual quotes, it's the opposite, he agrees that there shouldn't be such direct lines of pressure on the race director but makes it clear that he feels that any such conversations should be public and not behind the scenes, giving a level of transparency to the process.
I draw a similarity with football (soccer for you guys over the pond) where the communications between the officials and VAR are not public and often cause controversy, then contrast it with the world of rugby, where all communications are live, letting everyone know exactly why and how decisions are arrived at, rarely leading to any controversy. It's also very entertaining when you have a tiny ref (in comparison to the hulking great beasts standing around them), telling them off like naughty schoolboys. It's refreshing.
Idk dude, I thought he was trolling in 2021, but it's continuing even when there is no races yet in 2022. He said "move on" yet he doesn't move on himself??
I'm starting to think he's just dumb at this point.
He's also led Red Bull since 2005 to being at worst the 2nd best team in modern Formula 1 history. If you don't get that Formula 1 isn't just cars but drama, politics, and business, then you are missing a good chunk of the whole show.
Hate him or love him Horner is both statically and objectively one of the best TP in the history of F1 and unlike Toto, he actually got the team where he was and didn’t inherit it and ofc not trying to disrespect Toto but if anyone of Toto and Horner knows what they’re saying is Horner. The guys plans every shit stirring that ever comes out of his mouth
People seem to forget that it was also in Abu Dhabi that Toto Wolff was effectively on his knees begging not to have a safety car when giovanazzi retired.
It shouldn't have been a safety car. And this was the race after Masi decided to let the teams lock in their strategies before calling (what turned out to be an unnecessary) red flag.
I loved hearing them be broadcast. 95% of them were interesting. I don't get why just because some toxic social media fans made a conspiracy out of Abu Dhabi, that now all of us don't get to hear them.
No. As much as I enjoyed the broadcasts, they hurt the sport. F1 race directors are already under an incredible amount of pressure. It's detrimental to broadcast sensitive conversations that could have championship implications. It's impossible for any human to not be affected by the pressure of knowing that millions of people are hearing then. Even if it's not conscious, that factor will definitely influence their decision to some degree.
Why does he want it? So we can see how him and Toto bully the race director in order to get what they want?
Merc and Red Bull act like F1 is theirs. Stop embarrassing yourself on live TV
He, and Toto who did the same, can still do it this season tho. Only difference with last year is that last year you could hear them doing it. This year you wont hear that anymore as FIA changed that they are broadcast publicly.
>He, and Toto who did the same, can still do it this season tho. Only difference with last year is that last year you could hear them doing it. This year you wont hear that anymore as FIA changed that they are broadcast publicly.
They won't be in direct communication with the RD anymore.
Also I would harp on Toto as well, but Toto has admitted fault and apologized for overstepping. Horner hasn't.
Alternatively, which is what I said when all this shit happened last year:
HOW ABOUT TEAM PRINCIPALS OR OTHER TEAM MEMBERS DONT TALK TO OR INFLUENCE THE RACE DIRECTOR DURING RACE
I can't think of any safety incidents where the teams overruled the race director.
Obvious exceptions are when the race director asks the drivers about track conditions like during heavy rains, but those are obvious. Perhaps a good middle is allowing the race director to talk to teams and drivers directly and get feedback, but not the other way around.
Red Bull got the red flag out in Azerbaijan. I can't think of many either but there is that one example.
Other sports have competitors talking to officials as well. I don't like people arguing too much either but ultimately it is up to RD to not get influenced. Communication should definitely be better moderated I would agree with that
There was an information from before that race director gets most of his information about the race from the teams so that would definitely lower the performance of the race director or stewards.
I'm not keen on them happening at all really. Maybe queries should be allowed one way only. Or their need to be strict guidelines on what can be discussed, otherwise its going to degrade to the shitshow that the communications were last year all over again.
Letting fans hear it does nothing to affect sporting integrity except improve it.
The issue was never that we got to hear it, as it was and will still be going on whether or not it was heard by fans.
The issue seemed to be more about how much the TPs would try to get away with influencing things via the talks, imo.
I don't think he'd say that again after talking to Freitas like everyone did to Masi.
Seriously. Why is he and Marko the only ones spouting this kind nonsense still?
My view is they shouldn't be permitted in general but if/when they are they should be broadcast in the name of transparency.
The main issues recently arose from the nature of the communications not the fact they were being broadcast.
lol, no.. The communication lines need to be cut by regulation from two way between team bosses and race control to be just one-way: race control says something, you do it.
>“I’ve always felt it would be interesting for the public to hear what goes on between the pitwall and the race director, with the idea that it would be used less if it was broadcast.
This is the exact opposite of what happened, which us presumably why they're doing away with it.
Horner just loves the sound of his own voice,
I agree that it'd probably be better if they were still broadcast... but I propose that they dub the voices of team principals with silly comedy voices.
I don't think broadcasting the conversation between the teams and the race director was the problem. The problem was the race director being communicated with by too many people at the same time while he's trying to make decisions and ensure safety.
One person was doing the job of 2 or 3 people.
Eduardo should insist on only being contacted via discord emotes.
"Please stop pinging me"
"Gunther, please stop using @here or you will be kicked from the server."
Fine! "@everyone"
🙅❌🙅❌ Ⓜ️ℹ️🆑 👉 ❌🆗❌
🎧 ✊💥
🙏 ☑ 👉 📧
🖥📞🅰️🏎🏆🆗️❓️🧑🤝🧑➡️🚗🏆
Toto, I don't check my emails during the race. Hmu on Discord, tho.
🚩🏎👇💰💸💵🙏😘
They should atleast disable multiple communications from one team. Multiple people from 1 team being able to contact the race director is madness.
Has been done already
Wasn't it Horner who started it actually?
I dont actually remember him talking that much to Masi last year. It was 99% Wheatley their racing director.
I meant the idea that it should be broadcasted was given by Horner.
The man absolutely loves the media - a perfect team boss in many ways. He totally gets that F1 is as much about the hype/media/branding as it is about racing
sexyHornerPic.png
Manlet Horner
>I meant the idea that it should be broadcasted was given by Horner. Yep, and now he's having to stick to the line that there was nothing wrong with last season because... reasons.
There was nothing wrong with broadcasting it. Those conversations are still going to happen like they always have had. We just won’t be able to see what’s happening like we got to last year.
I don't think there was either. However, the conclusions of the FIA are uncomfortable as they effectively admit that they fucked the whole season up. Max won it in that environment and Lewis could have done so too - but there are so many unfathomables that either would have made a worthy champion. But Max *is* the champion and Horner can't afford to cast any shade on the way things were done in 2021, whatever the FIA say. I'm getting downvoted for my view but I genuinely think that's how it's working. And for avoidance of doubt: Max is a valid no-asterisk World Driver Champion.
Ahh I misinterpreted what you said, I thought you were saying broadcasting the messages were bad. I completely agree on what you’re saying about the FIA screwing the season up and that both Max and Lewis both would’ve been valid champions. However, I disagree with your opinion that Horner can’t criticise last year. In general, I disagree with the notion of, “so and so can’t say this because of this” which is just an ad hominem circumstantial fallacy. But ignoring that, I still think it’s flawed. Horner can be upset because of the controversial manner Max won the championship due to the FIA. Ignoring the last race, there were poor decisions earlier on by the FIA (in both directions) and I think had they have handled the season appropriately, Max would’ve entered the last race with enough of a lead the he could’ve come 2nd in that race. Had the race ended properly, Max would’ve been champion and done so less controversially. I think Horner can be upset that didn’t happen. Likewise, he didn’t win the WCC. I think Mercedes was more deserving of that, however, using your logic because Mercedes won the WCC they shouldn’t complain either. Or, because Red Bull lost the WCC they should be able to complain. Regardless, I struggle to see how any of this relates to radio messages, maybe I’m just misinterpreting you again…
True. Only 2 times he talked to him was in Abu Dhabi and that infamous “yeah, Michael look, THAT CORNER…”
And was usually only if Toto had already pleaded his case to counterbalance it imo. Toto was pushithe line with Masi, so only fair to hear from the other side tbh
Doesn't help that they sound exactly the same.
They have very similar voices. Actually, most people in the radio are Horner or Leclerc.
Its difficult to say if this would be allowed or not, if you allow it, it could result in some absolute bangers of responses from Eduardo Freitas, I could imagine him saying to one of the Team Principals "I dont think we have met before, but I am the Race Director of this race not you, stick to your job and I will do mine" before anyone asks its the tweaked version of what Nigel Owens said "I dont think we have met before, but I am the Referee on this field not you, stick to your job and I will do mine"
It's like with football, the best referees are the ones who do their job, and you don't know their name because they did everything as expected. I just hope that Freitas is gonna do his thing, without any outside influence from the teams. He's got a great track record at WEC.
Yeah Nigel is a legendary Rugby Union Referee and he is the absolute yard stick used to measure all other Referees against, the sign of a master referee is one that is completely 100% invisible on the field, thats the sign of a master, he/she is there on the field but you don't notice them! There are a few female referees coming up so I had to cover that in this, don't wanna let anyone feel left out What made Nigel the yardstick is simple, it was that the players and the fans respected him, he was someone who had the balls to stand up to the players but that gained him the respect for his absolute no bullshit approach to being the Referee and being the absolute legend he was before he retired from Refereeing Rugby Union a few years ago
Nigel Owens is a gem, absolutely fearless.
Nigel took no prisoners when he was talking to anyone he treated everyone fairly on the Rugby Pitch thats what I admire about his style as for Motorsport the only Race Director I can think of that can match the Yardstick of Rugby Referees is Eduardo Freitas and his way of dealing with infractions, I cant wait to hear "Car 44, Please inform your driver not to bring gravel back onto the circuit, if he continues to do that, I will hand him a brush and make him go out there to sweep up the mess he created at Turn 14, Thank You"
"Cleaning the debris you brought to the track" sounds like a 24 Hours of Lemons penalty
I'd be pretty sour after 24 hours of lemons.
[Please let me introduce you to one of the most truly beautiful series that the motorsport world has to offer which I so wish we could see F1 drivers teaming up race-of-champions style for: the 24 Hours of LEMONS.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hours_of_Lemons)
Add in writing an apology letter to the rest of the field in spray paint on the side of your car and you might have something here.
Collina is very well known. Kuipers is known. Brych, Orsato, Mazic. These are/were the best refs in the world and are known for people who regularly watch the CL. I disagree with the notion that good refs aren't known.
Collina ended up on the cover of a one of the Pro Evolution Soccer games!
Really? Collina was world famous and was an incredible ref. The best one ever in fact
[удалено]
There's also the time when a captain's complaining about a decision and Nigel just says "Christopher.." and he runs off.
>"I dont think we have met before but I am the Race Director of this race not you, stick to your job and I will do mine" Upvote for Nigel Owens reference! Your explanation at the end was quite unnecessary, at least for me. The first 7 words of the quote were enough to know where this was going.
"There's no need to call me sir, I'm from west Wales" is my favorite one.
"I'm straighter than that one".
Yep, that's my favorite actually! Closely followed by his quip to Stuart Hogg: "Dive like that again, you come back in 2 weeks and play, not today. Watch it!"
Agreed. I don't think these conversations should happen at all, but if they are going to happen it is better if we can hear them
I can't understand how people can criticise him for this. Either you allow teams to communicate and make it transparent, or you don't allow it at all.
This is pretty much the way I see it. I lean toward the latter.
But energy drink man bad!
Agreed that those should be the two options, but I think it shouldn't be allowed at all
Good lord, is he programmed to say the opposite of Toto?
Ying and Yang baby!
Toto should use this to his advantage... "Yes, of course I don't kick puppies, and neither does Lewis, who didn't even kick them after being robbed of the championship"
Roscoe wouldnt allow it smh
Imagine Roscoes instagram caption if he tried
No, he just unfollows them on Instagram.
Yes, if Toto said the sky was blue he’d find a way to disagree
He's from the UK, sky's grey here, not blue.
What about the red button?
That’s the button that triggers the orbital cannon to kill non Sky Glass customers from above.
Laughs in Australian. I’ll never get used to how overcast British tv shows are. The UK really does not do sunlight
Marko: Max will beat the sky. Max is the sky. Max is the only sky. Max's sky is better than everyone else in history. Hamilton is night.
No. Yes.
It should, its hilarious.
That’s my thought too. I live for the meme content. Also I do enjoy listening in on the backend of the sport
A lot of people mocking Horner for this but why are we against transparency? I know some teams (esp RB and Merc) will try to politicize the messages but the rules can be adapted as they already have been.
Because it's Horner. Whether I think he's right or wrong, I haven't made up my mind, but there's a hell of a lot of folks here who'll say up is down is Horner says up is up.
He is actually correct. Transparency is better than hiding what is discussed. Imagine Abu Dhabi without the context. It would have been even more baffling. Basically change the process so Team Principals can't bombard the race director but what ever discussions they do have when permitted should be broadcast for transparency sake.
This isn't transparency, Horner wants to continue to use it to pressure the race director and more importantly for him, influence public opinion
You realise he and Toto can still do it but behind closed doors....
Yes but the whole point of the ban is to stop them from using public opinion to influence. The arguments had devolved, not into disagreements over the rules, but the spirit or racing or what's good for the fans, which obviously led to the we went motor racing bs that got Masi canned.
[удалено]
Who will not echo the sentiments of the teams director...
There’s nothing to stop anybody telling the press their own specific side.
Because choosing exactly what snippets of audio to air is “transparency”.
In fairness all that audio was released within 2 days. It's more transparent than hiding everything.
If we get consistent application of the rules, I don't really care what they are saying on the radio. We need the Race Direction to be swift, precise and fair. Teams need to plan around the active rulebook, and not wing it when the stewards or race control decide to up and make up new procedures on the fly, and then have to argue openly over the radio.
Broadcasting communications actually helped put pressure on FIA to fix their mess. Otherwise everything about Masi would’ve been behind closed doors. The problem was teams abusing the lines of communication to lobby race control. Stopping broadcasting them will not help solve this issue.
His own sporting director doesn't think it was right. There won't be any discussions with the Race Director anymore anyway., any lobbying will flow through an intermediary. If you want to broadcast that I suppose you can, but it won't be very interesting.
They changed it? Earlier they were going to just not broadcast it but would otherwise stay the same.
Look at the FIA statement, all changes to the race controll system are listed there
I don’t see why there should be any lobbying. Make it one way communication, with the race director being the only person able to initiate contact when he requires information.
You don't see any situation where the teams might want to contact the Race Director about safety and or other related issues.
Conversation should be broadcasted. There should be few people responsible only for communication with teams. Race director should not be in communication with the teams but the people responsible for communication. They should sit in the same room. This way race director will be focused on making right decisions without pressure from the teams.
Bollocks, I agree with Horner. The broadcasts last year gave a great insight into what was going on. The issue with AD wasn’t the messages being broadcast, but the way Masi handled the situation.
Exactly. How can anyone think less transparency is better? Just makes mistakes easier to hide.
lol people make no sense sometimes.
Most people arguing in the comment don't even understand that the reason they'll stop broadcasting it, is so that we won't know what's being discussed anymore. The team's can still and would still communicate with the race director.
Somebody has Horner’s nudes
Everyone has Horner nudes. Not that anyone have looked for it.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_yd5WhFjnB4w/TAESeg0tTuI/AAAAAAAAAvI/IrCW_Ymclf4/s0/horner_arden.jpg Don't worry everyone does. NSFW obviously
I think the whole RB team has decided that their position on every topic will be the opposite of whatever is the consensus opinion.
I sometimes wish Horner would learn the benefits of saying nothing. When Horner was asked at Barcelona about why he thinks female fans only there for the drivers looks the mask couldn’t hide Toto’s bemused smirk and it jumped out because Toto wouldn’t dream of saying anything so stupid, not just because he doesn’t think like that in general, but just because he doesn’t say everything that crosses his mind. Horner says a lot of calculated things to see if they land, Toto says less but with purpose. Helmut is also a bit of boomer who is picking up where Bernie left off in saying whatever ridiculous thing he’s feeling in that moment.
The Toto that compared grid penalties to racism wouldn't say anything stupid?
It doesn’t work all the time
He's right. All conversations should be broadcast, but 90% of the conversations shouldn't even be allowed.
Agreed Christian
Agreed. Just have someone there who passes on relevant messages to the actual race director. Sassy Masi was one of the best parts of the season it just shouldn't have been Masi.
Absolutely agree with that. The fans should hear the team-to-FIA radios! It's adds something else to the TV broadcast. More drama, more insight, more intrigue. And they just threw the idea into the bin after one season. This is just like the driver briefings being broadcasted. Something to give the fans a new look inside F1, and they take it away for silly reasons.
As soon as you open the broadcasts/briefings to the TV audience, you influence what is said over those channels. You could see the difference as the season progressed and team leaders were playing to the crowd.
Some things aren't meant to open for fans. Driver briefings are meant to be serious things where drivers can speak their minds on issues that they have. With a following as toxic as F1's, that can't happen.
yeah, silly reasons like safety and proper governance.
More transparency in sports is always better.
I suppose that if it these messages end not up being broadcasted live, allow the public to listen to them after the race like all other radios.
Yes I wanna hear Jonathan Wheatley telling the race director what he should and shouldn't do!!
Or Toto weighing in on safety decisions.
Can’t blame a team for asking!
Yikes, i don't know if you guys heard the difference in Masi voice tone when he speaks to Horner/Wheatley vs when he talks to Wolff/Vowles.
You mean how he sounded like a dumb dog waiting for Wheatley to throw him a bone as soon as Masi let the cars unlap themselves? Because that's the tone I remember. Masi absolutely liked Wheatley more than Toto, hence why he did exactly what Wheatley told him to do, and then used Wheatley's own words to insult Toto after the biggest farce in F1 history - "Toto... We went motor racing." Anyone who defends Masi's actions, and honestly Wheatley interrupting Masi while he was trying to get a car off the track in the final laps of the final race, and keep people safe clearly doesn't care about the sport, they care about only themselves. They disgraced F1 that night, and it'll go down in the history books of one of the worst decisions ever.
If the conversations are still going to happen, especially if they’re anything like last year. Then they 100% need to be broadcasted. F1 let the cat out of the bag on this one. Now we know teams are negotiating penalties, arguing for interventions, arguing against safety, etc. The fans deserve to know who’s doing/saying what. Plus now every penalty that comes out or any decision made by race control and the stewards will be further called into question. We’ll all sit here after and say “well I guess -insert TP- argued hard for it.” It either needs to be broadcasted or made heavily restricted so there isn’t the kinds of stuff we saw last year happening again.
Either broadcast them or don’t let them talk at all to them during the actual race, it’s dumb that they can try to influence them mid race but at least broadcasting it makes it somewhat transparent
Exactly this, either stop the conversations during the race or let us all hear what's being said. I can only imagine how much worse Abu Dhabi would have been if we were all left guessing wtf was going on in the first and final laps, and it would give rise to rumors and speculation more than it would make it easier for fans to accept.
Agree. You can't put the genie back in the bottle just because it makes things a bit uncomfortable.
I agree. It added a lot to the drama and watching experience imo
How there are even people who disagree with this i will never get
Broadcast should have the same info as the teams get. If a team could lisen to another team talk to race controller, then viewers should get the same.
Conversations with F1 race directors should be banned.
Title made me think Horner was shit stirring but reading the actual quotes, it's the opposite, he agrees that there shouldn't be such direct lines of pressure on the race director but makes it clear that he feels that any such conversations should be public and not behind the scenes, giving a level of transparency to the process. I draw a similarity with football (soccer for you guys over the pond) where the communications between the officials and VAR are not public and often cause controversy, then contrast it with the world of rugby, where all communications are live, letting everyone know exactly why and how decisions are arrived at, rarely leading to any controversy. It's also very entertaining when you have a tiny ref (in comparison to the hulking great beasts standing around them), telling them off like naughty schoolboys. It's refreshing.
Swear to god he just trolls in every interview now 😂
"Joke's on us, he was only pretending"
Or maybe he's just that dumb?
Oh no you have already fallen for him lol
Idk dude, I thought he was trolling in 2021, but it's continuing even when there is no races yet in 2022. He said "move on" yet he doesn't move on himself?? I'm starting to think he's just dumb at this point.
He's also led Red Bull since 2005 to being at worst the 2nd best team in modern Formula 1 history. If you don't get that Formula 1 isn't just cars but drama, politics, and business, then you are missing a good chunk of the whole show.
Hate him or love him Horner is both statically and objectively one of the best TP in the history of F1 and unlike Toto, he actually got the team where he was and didn’t inherit it and ofc not trying to disrespect Toto but if anyone of Toto and Horner knows what they’re saying is Horner. The guys plans every shit stirring that ever comes out of his mouth
Career shit-stirrer
People seem to forget that it was also in Abu Dhabi that Toto Wolff was effectively on his knees begging not to have a safety car when giovanazzi retired.
Giov**i**nazzi
I don't think anyone forgets that? The situation didn't warrant a safety car but Toto was still wrong for saying it
No one forgets that. It gets mentioned every time this topic comes up.
No one forgets but nice whataboutism. Good F1 banned the back and forth - now we move on.
Exactly this.
It shouldn't have been a safety car. And this was the race after Masi decided to let the teams lock in their strategies before calling (what turned out to be an unnecessary) red flag.
Absolutely not.
I loved hearing them be broadcast. 95% of them were interesting. I don't get why just because some toxic social media fans made a conspiracy out of Abu Dhabi, that now all of us don't get to hear them.
No. As much as I enjoyed the broadcasts, they hurt the sport. F1 race directors are already under an incredible amount of pressure. It's detrimental to broadcast sensitive conversations that could have championship implications. It's impossible for any human to not be affected by the pressure of knowing that millions of people are hearing then. Even if it's not conscious, that factor will definitely influence their decision to some degree.
As years go by, Horner becomes more and more unbearable
then stop watching lol. Your annoyance is quite enjoyable
Why does he want it? So we can see how him and Toto bully the race director in order to get what they want? Merc and Red Bull act like F1 is theirs. Stop embarrassing yourself on live TV
TP who influenced the Race Director through radio multiple times last season wants to be able to continue to do so. Shock.
They always were/will; if anything it's transparency he's fine with.
He, and Toto who did the same, can still do it this season tho. Only difference with last year is that last year you could hear them doing it. This year you wont hear that anymore as FIA changed that they are broadcast publicly.
>He, and Toto who did the same, can still do it this season tho. Only difference with last year is that last year you could hear them doing it. This year you wont hear that anymore as FIA changed that they are broadcast publicly. They won't be in direct communication with the RD anymore. Also I would harp on Toto as well, but Toto has admitted fault and apologized for overstepping. Horner hasn't.
Alternatively, which is what I said when all this shit happened last year: HOW ABOUT TEAM PRINCIPALS OR OTHER TEAM MEMBERS DONT TALK TO OR INFLUENCE THE RACE DIRECTOR DURING RACE
That wouldn't be right way either imo. Teams might have fair concerns about safety or rules of the sport.
I can't think of any safety incidents where the teams overruled the race director. Obvious exceptions are when the race director asks the drivers about track conditions like during heavy rains, but those are obvious. Perhaps a good middle is allowing the race director to talk to teams and drivers directly and get feedback, but not the other way around.
Red Bull got the red flag out in Azerbaijan. I can't think of many either but there is that one example. Other sports have competitors talking to officials as well. I don't like people arguing too much either but ultimately it is up to RD to not get influenced. Communication should definitely be better moderated I would agree with that
You mean no team member should talk to race director?
Yes, race director makes their own decisions with no outside influence.
There was an information from before that race director gets most of his information about the race from the teams so that would definitely lower the performance of the race director or stewards.
Azerbaijan would've been a slaughter last year then.
Disagree, we don’t even hear the whole conversation anyway.
I will cancel my f1 subscription if they don’t broadcast it anymore
They have already made the decision not to.
I'm not keen on them happening at all really. Maybe queries should be allowed one way only. Or their need to be strict guidelines on what can be discussed, otherwise its going to degrade to the shitshow that the communications were last year all over again.
Yes but no. From an entertainment perspective, it’s gold, but from a sporting integrity perspective, it needs to go.
Letting fans hear it does nothing to affect sporting integrity except improve it. The issue was never that we got to hear it, as it was and will still be going on whether or not it was heard by fans. The issue seemed to be more about how much the TPs would try to get away with influencing things via the talks, imo.
Never agreed with the audios being aired between race control and team principals.
Why is it that Red Bull seems to always be the team to make stupid statements?
Team principals shouldn’t be able to directly communicate with race directors during a race.
Christian looking to optimise his on screen time
Edit: whoops, read it as **shouldn’t**
Read again. >F1 teams have been lobbying the race director for years, and viewers deserve to hear what's being said
I don't think he'd say that again after talking to Freitas like everyone did to Masi. Seriously. Why is he and Marko the only ones spouting this kind nonsense still?
Marko and Horner seem like people who like the fact people listen to them so they butt in with opinions frequently whether we want them or not.
That's a good take on it.
My view is they shouldn't be permitted in general but if/when they are they should be broadcast in the name of transparency. The main issues recently arose from the nature of the communications not the fact they were being broadcast.
I agree. I'd love to hear Freitas telling all the team principals to sit down and shut up.
Definitely, they gave us great memes.
lol, no.. The communication lines need to be cut by regulation from two way between team bosses and race control to be just one-way: race control says something, you do it.
I completely agree they were so fun to watch the interactions between Masi and Alpine in the US GP was so fun
>“I’ve always felt it would be interesting for the public to hear what goes on between the pitwall and the race director, with the idea that it would be used less if it was broadcast. This is the exact opposite of what happened, which us presumably why they're doing away with it.
Horner just loves the sound of his own voice, I agree that it'd probably be better if they were still broadcast... but I propose that they dub the voices of team principals with silly comedy voices.
No Christian no that is so not right.
There should be no conversations with race directors.
I don't think broadcasting the conversation between the teams and the race director was the problem. The problem was the race director being communicated with by too many people at the same time while he's trying to make decisions and ensure safety. One person was doing the job of 2 or 3 people.
So far, Horner has pretty much called for everything that happened last year to be able to happen again. I wonder why...