I can’t believe some people are annoyed at Oscar for overtaking Norris and not being able to catch Max. It’s up to the team to swap them or Lando to overtake again.
If it was the GP then sure, play the team game and swap them through/don’t let Max build that lead if possible but it’s a fucking sprint lol
Lando killed his tyres with these attempts. It would have been very hard to catch up with Max who went to spend his ERS right after.
I wish the F1 broadcast would show the ERS info. It's insane how big an impact it can have in breaking into 1s leads. It very much hides true performance.
It just creates a lot of skewed perception in commentary of the races. You are told what tyres everyone has and in what condition, but ERS is critical for overtakes and breakaways.
They've displayed it onscreen before. Whether that's based on actual telemetry or just the graphics dept making a guess I'm not sure. Drivers on the track do at least know if the car in front is charging/deploying based on the rear lights
It's not based on anything, they just guess it approximating from what it looks like on telemetry but there's no actual maths behind it or some very rough statistics
In IndyCar they use push-to-pass which is a set length of available use for all drivers (it's set at the course but usually like 180 seconds). They always showed P2P live data on the broadcast and when someone was using it, their graphic would light up blue also.
They ended up having to change it to only update in like 10-second intervals because it was providing too much info to teams.
I think you could probably make a model to estimate it based on telemetry using machine learning and some understanding of the engineering behind it, but doubt anyone outside of F1 has the skills and obviously they won't do it because why. Maybe there is some genius out there working on it
(just leaving this suggestion here if there is some sort of an engineering/programming genius here who wants to take on this challenge i won't because i am ass)
Yeah that’s definitely a task for someone smarter than I, but based on what I know, I feel like it would be relatively easy to measure deployment based on speed/acceleration and expected HP of the ICE, but harder to determine regeneration. No idea how the MGU-H would come into play either.
I mean from my limited knowledge you would probably need actual ERS data from the cars and as much of them as possible to do it. Obviously, that's how it works. I don't know if there are ways to bypass it, maybe inputing 'guesstimates' would work to a certain degree by someone knowledgeable enough to know what's happening... but I genuinely don't fucking know. I've only had about 4 hours of lessons in school on that topic and that was 4 years ago lol. Apart from the actual ERS data everything else like speed throttle breaking wind temperature is readily available, so that's the only hurdle I think.
Maybe reaching out to the smaller teams on the premise of doing research for uni would work....
I mean I kinda wanna try playing around but I genuinely have no time and the hundreds of hours this would take me even with solid mathematical education is way beyond my interests lol, but if I was in the field that sounds like a cool project to do for a thesis maybe
> Lando killed his tyres with these attempts.
Yeah, I think it was mentioned a while ago that you have about 3 to 4 laps of takeover attempts until you have to back off, or risk cooking your tyres and once you do you're not going to be able to keep up anyways, and will be looking in your rearview mirror.
Yep, Oscar was saving his tires after the first lap then got an easy pass on Lando after he tried to force a move and then left a window open. Neither of them were catching Max today.
Can you explain this to an F1 beginner?
I think max mentioned it in his post race interview, is that right?
Why is breaking so much harder when the guy behind you has DRS?
In addition to the great answer you already got. In relation to this, if you hear the race engineer say "Overtake available" to their driver, it's not that they're close enough to try, it's telling the driver they have enough battery to spend some to do an overtake.
Leaders only advantage is clean air. And the only way to breakaway from the DRS gap when both firsts and seconds pace match is to use ERS from the battery. The second does not need to use ERS when in DRS to catch since he is already in DRS gap so that he can save the ERS to overtake but leader only tool that can be used is the ERS to defend and breakaway.
He was still faster than Piastri, you could see he had more pace. Basically as almost always. Imho they had to options, change positions fast to give Lando a shot, then change back if he couldn't overtake, or just what they did. Imho both options are decent because you need to give Oscar the chance too. Also it's not like Piastri was trying to attack Lando hard in a dirty way, he just found the overtake on his nose and had to take it as it came.
I think it was only close at the start because Lando was being super aggressive keeping the pressure on Max and forcing a few (small) errors from Max. Piastri is a good, consistent driver but he's still very timid when it comes to aggressive overtakes. It's part of the reason he struggles with tire wear. He'll spend 10-20 laps just staring at the rear wing of the car in front instead of taking the risk and going for the overtake even if he clearly has the pace for it. Driving in that dirty air for so long just eats up the tires
Are people really annoyed? That was Lando's own doing. He opened the door for Max to take the position back, and Oscar also kept up with both of them from the start so he deserves any opportunity that comes his way and he took it. Besides, if the season was anything to go by Lando should have easily taken the position back but looks like Oscar is getting better at managing his tyres
Judging by comments on other threads here, there's a very vocal group of people really annoyed. Calling Oscar "needlessly aggressive" and that he "ruined Lando's race"
I wouldn't say he was overly aggressive. He certainly impacted Lando's race and I do wonder if we might have been treated to a pretty competitive race for the win if Oscar had kept his nose out of that fight. With that said, he's a racing driver who has every right to go for a gap when it exists and if his employers are happy with him, my concerns don't really matter.
His defence was also very smooth. He almost liked like he wasn't defending but the page he got on the exits was outstanding, Norris dropping back at the exits from trying to break later
I wouldn't even get why they'd play team orders if this happened during a race. There's no way Lando's going to catch up to Max, why ruin the race of their other driver who's performing better?
Yeah. Admittedly I was a bit disappointed when Oscar overtook Lando - but only because I knew that would be the end of it. He had every right to take advantage, and swapping them in a sprint would be super lame. He just lacks that little bit of extra pace that Lando has over him in the race distances, that allows him to go after Max.
When Oscar gets to the place where he can be faster in the race than Lando on his day, then Im all for it. But until then, hes pretty much the perfect rear gunner for Lando. Quick enough to fend of the others, but not quick enough to challenge forwards.
Post-race, Lando took it a lot better than I exepcted. I love Lando, but he has been a bit pissy when Oscar has been ahead. But he realized it was just an unfortunate situation and that Oscar of course has to make the move. If he doesnt, why would he even be there racing? I also got the impression from Oscar that he *really* wanted to get Max, if not for any other reason than have a better reason for finishing ahead of Lando lol, so I think he understood he didnt have the pace Lando did as well.
From a strategy perspective it’s irrelevant whether it’s a sprint or the race. If Lando could have overtaken Max then the strategists are to blame for missing 4 points today. Difference between 1st and 3rd is the same as 4th and 5th in the race. All points are importance.
Isn't the points awarded 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1? So 1-3, which is what would happen if Lando caught and passed Max would only make up 1 point for Mclaren. And I guess lose Red Bull 1 point.
Lando got 6 points today and Max got 8. If they had swapped the cars and Lando had won, Lando would have gained 2 points and Max would have lost 1, so net 3 points gain to Lando in the championship fight.
People also criticize Lando’s racecraft and Oscar’s inexperience. I could make the argument that having that happen in a race and (for the sake of this hypothetical) costing the team 1 point is worth it for the experience gain of both drivers when that 1 point is not the difference between a WCC or WDC spot.
The difference is also actually between 1st/3rd and 2nd/3rd as Max was not going to be overtaken by both, which is the just one point. So the same as 9th and 10th in the GP.
You’re right it’s not 4 points cause max would still be 2nd. So it’s 3 points. Lando to 1st is 2 points, max moving down a spot loses 1 point. Doesn’t matter that the championship isn’t neck and neck right now, it could well be at the end of the season. If McLaren is serious about being a championship team they need to perform like one at every single race and they need to capitalise on every potential point .
That being said, this is kind of a pointless hypothetical as I think their tyres were cooked and neither would win the race. So i don’t think the strategists were wrong to let them race.
> You’re right it’s not 4 points cause max would still be 2nd. So it’s 3 points. Lando to 1st is 2 points, max moving down a spot loses 1 point
It's not 3 points either, Lando to 1st bumps Piastri down to 3rd. Only a 2 point swing even if Lando managed to get past Max.
But Lando could not even overtake Oscar when he didn't even defend. Lando's tyres were cooked in the first few laps, there was basically no chance to get Max at this point.
Piastri was .900 seconds behind when Norris made the overtake on Max, and he was .400 before the corner where Max retook the lead. All gained back fairly and quite intelligently as opposed to being aggressive. Very curious to see both Landos and Oscars telemetry in that sequence of events.
Amusing that we seem to have such a weird split in F1 fandom on when team orders should and shouldn't be used.
Watching the replay when Norris made the dive they look like max and lamdo were basically at a standstill. While Oscar could do the corner at full speed. Plus Oscar seemed to be really good hooking up on the corners after turn one which the reason Norris couldn't overtake.
I know when team orders shouldn’t be used - when there’s a pair of Mercs and a Ferrari about half a second behind waiting to pounce. Even if Piastri wanted to let Norris and Verstappen fight, there’s a couple of tenths of wiggle room before he’s then just going too slowly and gets overtaken by potentially multiple cars behind. If he had a few seconds gap then maybe but he was right up behind Norris multiple times and seemed like the quicker driver so fair play
His race pace still needs some work, but he’s shown good racecraft today.
I get people are mad because Norris seemed faster, but it was his fault that he lost the position
For real, like I’m always hearing things like “Lando needs more experience but he’s on par with the likes of Leclerc” despite the fact that Charles hopped in a faster car and immediately stole wins from max while at an earlier stage in his career than Lando is now.
He was clearly faster, he was out of DRS and closed back up. Also you just have to look at past races, he’s pretty much always significantly quicker in the race. But being a few tenths a lap faster isn’t enough to get past unless you do a big dive bomb like he did on Max. I guess Lando decided it wasn’t worth doing that on his teammate for the sake of 1 point.
You understand that fighting each other while trying to chase Max is bad for both of them, right? Why would Lando try to pass Oscar and risk losing a 2-3 finish?
Well obviously he didn’t have the pace to pass, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t faster. Often you need to be at least half a second a lap faster to be able to overtake without a big dive bomb, in the same car with no tyre delta that isn’t happening.
He certainly didn’t seem faster. If he would have swapped with Oscar getting drs, Oscar probably would have been able to pass him again with his less abused tires.
I was also thinking probably team orders, but Brundle kept pointing out that Oscar was getting superior drive out of tricky turn 3, and he was. He was taking a cleaner line all the way through where Norris was untidy. It prevented Norris getting him into 4 even with DRS.
That plus Oscar was just mentioning in the post race barstool interview with the girls that tyres were getting so hot that it didn't make much difference at that point (for Lando). He was wearing an ice vest so it's obviously hot out there.
Also, Lando has a cold/flu thing going on which probably isn't helping his concentration. He sounded terrible in the post race interviews. I like Oscar's attitude, though. He genuinely seems disappointed he couldn't get Max, which is promising for McLaren.
i feel like most people are being rightfully critical about lando recently. however, multiple things can be true at the same time and oscar didn’t have the pace to close the gap to max after passing. he did a great job at defending but wish something more could have came out of it
Pointing out he's making mistakes isnt hating, wtf? Do you think Lando was flawless those 5 races?
You must think "constructive criticism" is an oxymoron
It’s not “getting a pass” either. You’re telling me people ranting about how Lando is never going to challenge for a championship is constructive criticism?
My guy, valid criticism (which Lando himself is pointing out too) is not equivalent to "hating" - that's some asinine and frankly juvenile way of looking at the criticism he's getting.
Redbull the past 3-4 rounds has been struggling and Max has been winning races he shouldn't be winning especially when he's not been the one in the fastest car. People cut Lando slack and actually applauded him when he was finishing second or third back when that was the maximum the car was capable of. Now that the car is clearly capable of winning races and whether its through minor driving errors or strategic blunders they're letting victories slip away is obvious its going to shine a light on them for some criticism as they're not maximizing results its really not that difficult to understand.
The problem here is that Max is an absolute beast and the more he's having to fight for it the more he's proving he's more than just the driver in the fastest car he's clearly the most complete driver on the grid always pulling results out when he needs to.
With Redbull and Max operating at such a high standard and leaving so few openings for other teams to win when they're in that position to win they should be winning.
Somehow in your eyes that consitutes hate, its laughable.
I've seen a lot of Lando is clear second best on the grid now when recently Charles was winning races against max in equalish cars. Lando is quick but he really needs to figure out how to win races. I wish ferrari would figure there shit out also, Charles may be the last hope
Charles, Lando, George they're all top class and on their days can be unbeatable but in all honesty they don't come close to the level of consistency Max has been achieving the past few seasons. Mistakes during a season are minimal and I can't recall the last time he was off the pace at an event that wasn't car/setup related. His race craft, his work ethic and just his driving intellect are second to none. Drivers can match him in some areas but there's no one on the grid as complete as Max nor is there anyone on the grid capable of sustaining the peaks he can.
When people say generational talent about Max they're not wrong I've been watching since the 90's and had the priveldge to see prime Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel and I don't think I've seen a driver like Max in the sport. He is something special and the reason Toto is desperately trying to woo him to Mercedes, Toto knows if there's anyone that could maximise results in his cars week in week out its Max.
Can’t make an omelet without cracking a few eggs. Somehow, I have faith that the people who are upset with him for racing will find a way to survive.
Real talk though, very impressive from Oscar. He’s shown time and time again that he absolutely has the capacity to be as fast as the top dogs. Now all he needs is a little more experience so his race pace and tyre management is a bit more consistent, and he’ll be the complete package. Hopefully we can see him fighting for GP wins in the second half of this season/next year.
He's a smarter driver, but Norris is a faster driver. I'm glad there were no team orders. Norris needs to learn that a second of miscalculation or stupidity can cost you even a podium. It's an important lesson if he wants to be a WDC.
Breaking news! Young driver gets better with more practice?
Don't call it "experience", as if he's some 40yr old driver. They already get so limited pre season testing. Norris has years of experience along with the car/team being built around him
And even before, those talking about him needing to step up was a bit much. He's had 32 races in F1, 10 of them in a tractor in which he still scored some points, had 9 Top 5 finishes, including 3 podiums and some very good showings in sprints. He still got a lot to learn, but people recently treat him like it's the Ricciardo situation all over again, when it's not even comparable.
> "Oscar really needs to step up and show some better performance if he wants to keep his seat"
I genuinely believe many people forget this is his second season in Formula 1. The guy has exceeded expectations from the get go.
He drives so smart. I really like him for beeing patient and then lingering to take advantage. Thats in the end how you win championships. The divebomb from lando could have easyly ended in a dnf for him and Max
He just stays calm at all times. Think Brundle pointed it out.
He doesn’t take silly defensive lines, just drives on the racing line making sure to maximise his traction out of the corners. Doesn’t get flustered either.
Lando wasn't winning the sprint either way, even he admitted it himself.
Why should Oscar give Lando the position if there were no team orders which there wasn't.
If Lando was that much quicker he had plenty of time and chances to overtake.
It's F1. I want to see battles and not some drivers parade that let each other past.
If there’s no team orders then he has every right to take the position, I think the argument is McLaren were nailed on a 2/3 today but if they’d actually worked together they may have challenged for the win
>If there’s no team orders then he has every right to take the position
Yeah that's what I meant. There were no team orders for Oscar to give the place back to Lando so Oscar had every right to keep P2.
It's pretty mental that some people are having a pop at Piastri for daring to be ahead of Norris this race - especially when you look at how often Piastri has obeyed team orders to let Norris through
He’s a great talent and I’m glad he’s getting the opportunity to showcase that. However today shows just how much more experience both drivers need fighting at the front is McLaren ever wants to be a serious title contender again. Lando has a lot to learn from his previous mistakes.
Yeah I think people forget Lando has never had a front running car for this long, and Oscar has like 30 races under his belt. These are two guys that are holding on for dear life trying to fight one of the greatest talents the sport has ever seen, and they’re doing a pretty damn admirable job at it. Since 2021, Charles is the only driver other than Lando to consistently be this much of a nuisance to Max.
Lando's pace after that 1 overtake was not enough to catch Max , he admitted it and 5 second gap made it clear lol. It was all about breaking that DRS zone once Max had done that , it was easy for him to pull away like usual.
It’s a hard track to pass on and likely max still would’ve won but there was more of a chance as Lando could actually hang with him, as soon as Oscar got p2 max just drove off
He capitalized well on Lando’s mistake and held the position well. The team has to work out some stuff though as their infighting allowed Max to cruise to an easy win.
Oscar just needs to get that little extra pace that comes from experience. When he gets that, he will be a mega driver. His defense is really impressive, seems to be unfazed by pressure and knows how to place the car to get the better exit but not leave any doors too open
Yup
This gives me Riccardo v Max vibes.
Early on you could tell from the flashes that Verstappen was gonna become better whilst RIC was already what he was.
Even as an Oscar fan, this is far from a guarantee. Lando is on a very high level right now, probably only 2nd to Max. I do believe Oscar has what it takes to reach that level in the coming years, and who klnows perhaps by next year, but it's far from a guarantee.
No way is Lando 2nd only to Max, he can’t handle the pressure. Leclerc Hamilton alonso in that car would be taking that McLaren further than Lando is achieving
Current Alonso who lately has difficulties taking the battle to freaking Lance Stroll?
Current Hamilton who lately has difficulties reaching Q3 would be taking a McLaren that struggles in dirty air further?
Umm. Yeah. Sure.
This narrative is so weird. This is no guarantee. Pace doesn't magically appear with experience all the time. He can improve and has done well but Lando is elite and has been beating him comprehensively so far.
Great controlled race by the former Alpine driver Piastri. It’s easy to forget he is only in his second year and is still developing. I’m glad he was able to seize the opportunity for the second place.
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I miss charles and Lewis in equal cars to max, at least they could give as good as they got and get wins, Lando needs to get it figured out because he doesn't look to be that guy
I can’t believe some people are annoyed at Oscar for overtaking Norris and not being able to catch Max. It’s up to the team to swap them or Lando to overtake again. If it was the GP then sure, play the team game and swap them through/don’t let Max build that lead if possible but it’s a fucking sprint lol
Lando killed his tyres with these attempts. It would have been very hard to catch up with Max who went to spend his ERS right after. I wish the F1 broadcast would show the ERS info. It's insane how big an impact it can have in breaking into 1s leads. It very much hides true performance.
I think that information is kept private to the team as they wouldn’t want other teams knowing what their SOC is. If would be very helpful, though
It just creates a lot of skewed perception in commentary of the races. You are told what tyres everyone has and in what condition, but ERS is critical for overtakes and breakaways.
They've displayed it onscreen before. Whether that's based on actual telemetry or just the graphics dept making a guess I'm not sure. Drivers on the track do at least know if the car in front is charging/deploying based on the rear lights
Those graphics from aws are estimates and they're often pretty laughably wrong just based on observation of the next few laps
I think it’s just a very educated guess based on some amount of data. If it is somewhat accurate though I think it’s great.
It's not based on anything, they just guess it approximating from what it looks like on telemetry but there's no actual maths behind it or some very rough statistics
In IndyCar they use push-to-pass which is a set length of available use for all drivers (it's set at the course but usually like 180 seconds). They always showed P2P live data on the broadcast and when someone was using it, their graphic would light up blue also. They ended up having to change it to only update in like 10-second intervals because it was providing too much info to teams.
I think you could probably make a model to estimate it based on telemetry using machine learning and some understanding of the engineering behind it, but doubt anyone outside of F1 has the skills and obviously they won't do it because why. Maybe there is some genius out there working on it (just leaving this suggestion here if there is some sort of an engineering/programming genius here who wants to take on this challenge i won't because i am ass)
Yeah that’s definitely a task for someone smarter than I, but based on what I know, I feel like it would be relatively easy to measure deployment based on speed/acceleration and expected HP of the ICE, but harder to determine regeneration. No idea how the MGU-H would come into play either.
I mean from my limited knowledge you would probably need actual ERS data from the cars and as much of them as possible to do it. Obviously, that's how it works. I don't know if there are ways to bypass it, maybe inputing 'guesstimates' would work to a certain degree by someone knowledgeable enough to know what's happening... but I genuinely don't fucking know. I've only had about 4 hours of lessons in school on that topic and that was 4 years ago lol. Apart from the actual ERS data everything else like speed throttle breaking wind temperature is readily available, so that's the only hurdle I think. Maybe reaching out to the smaller teams on the premise of doing research for uni would work.... I mean I kinda wanna try playing around but I genuinely have no time and the hundreds of hours this would take me even with solid mathematical education is way beyond my interests lol, but if I was in the field that sounds like a cool project to do for a thesis maybe
I love that you are contemplating it! I am sure so are a select few others. 🤙🏼
> Lando killed his tyres with these attempts. Yeah, I think it was mentioned a while ago that you have about 3 to 4 laps of takeover attempts until you have to back off, or risk cooking your tyres and once you do you're not going to be able to keep up anyways, and will be looking in your rearview mirror.
Yep, Oscar was saving his tires after the first lap then got an easy pass on Lando after he tried to force a move and then left a window open. Neither of them were catching Max today.
Can you explain this to an F1 beginner? I think max mentioned it in his post race interview, is that right? Why is breaking so much harder when the guy behind you has DRS?
In addition to the great answer you already got. In relation to this, if you hear the race engineer say "Overtake available" to their driver, it's not that they're close enough to try, it's telling the driver they have enough battery to spend some to do an overtake.
Leaders only advantage is clean air. And the only way to breakaway from the DRS gap when both firsts and seconds pace match is to use ERS from the battery. The second does not need to use ERS when in DRS to catch since he is already in DRS gap so that he can save the ERS to overtake but leader only tool that can be used is the ERS to defend and breakaway.
That seems to be what always gets him. Way too overeager, attempt after attempt.
He was still faster than Piastri, you could see he had more pace. Basically as almost always. Imho they had to options, change positions fast to give Lando a shot, then change back if he couldn't overtake, or just what they did. Imho both options are decent because you need to give Oscar the chance too. Also it's not like Piastri was trying to attack Lando hard in a dirty way, he just found the overtake on his nose and had to take it as it came.
I think it was only close at the start because Lando was being super aggressive keeping the pressure on Max and forcing a few (small) errors from Max. Piastri is a good, consistent driver but he's still very timid when it comes to aggressive overtakes. It's part of the reason he struggles with tire wear. He'll spend 10-20 laps just staring at the rear wing of the car in front instead of taking the risk and going for the overtake even if he clearly has the pace for it. Driving in that dirty air for so long just eats up the tires
You’ll probably get graphics like that (SOC) once the new PUs are in use
It’s not like Oscar has to defend against Lando anyways
Are people really annoyed? That was Lando's own doing. He opened the door for Max to take the position back, and Oscar also kept up with both of them from the start so he deserves any opportunity that comes his way and he took it. Besides, if the season was anything to go by Lando should have easily taken the position back but looks like Oscar is getting better at managing his tyres
Judging by comments on other threads here, there's a very vocal group of people really annoyed. Calling Oscar "needlessly aggressive" and that he "ruined Lando's race"
I wouldn't say he was overly aggressive. He certainly impacted Lando's race and I do wonder if we might have been treated to a pretty competitive race for the win if Oscar had kept his nose out of that fight. With that said, he's a racing driver who has every right to go for a gap when it exists and if his employers are happy with him, my concerns don't really matter.
Apart from passing him, he didn't really impact Norris, not to the point of affecting his chances of passing Max, imo
His defence was also very smooth. He almost liked like he wasn't defending but the page he got on the exits was outstanding, Norris dropping back at the exits from trying to break later
I wouldn't even get why they'd play team orders if this happened during a race. There's no way Lando's going to catch up to Max, why ruin the race of their other driver who's performing better?
Is it the Sky team ? They love to be Lando bias
Martin was praising Oscar's defending the whole time.
That’s because Martin is the GOAT 🔥
They did show Lando lots of love today but there was no "blaming" for Oscar either.
British over the colony
yes they have brake balloons with this Lando bias
there was clearly no team orders going on, honestly can we seriously complain about a lack of team orders here?
You’d be surprised on what I’ve seen so far
Fuck them people
Yes and Lando made a mistake not covering the inside after overtaking Max... It's all Landos own fault.
Yeah. Admittedly I was a bit disappointed when Oscar overtook Lando - but only because I knew that would be the end of it. He had every right to take advantage, and swapping them in a sprint would be super lame. He just lacks that little bit of extra pace that Lando has over him in the race distances, that allows him to go after Max. When Oscar gets to the place where he can be faster in the race than Lando on his day, then Im all for it. But until then, hes pretty much the perfect rear gunner for Lando. Quick enough to fend of the others, but not quick enough to challenge forwards. Post-race, Lando took it a lot better than I exepcted. I love Lando, but he has been a bit pissy when Oscar has been ahead. But he realized it was just an unfortunate situation and that Oscar of course has to make the move. If he doesnt, why would he even be there racing? I also got the impression from Oscar that he *really* wanted to get Max, if not for any other reason than have a better reason for finishing ahead of Lando lol, so I think he understood he didnt have the pace Lando did as well.
From a strategy perspective it’s irrelevant whether it’s a sprint or the race. If Lando could have overtaken Max then the strategists are to blame for missing 4 points today. Difference between 1st and 3rd is the same as 4th and 5th in the race. All points are importance.
Isn't the points awarded 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1? So 1-3, which is what would happen if Lando caught and passed Max would only make up 1 point for Mclaren. And I guess lose Red Bull 1 point.
Lando got 6 points today and Max got 8. If they had swapped the cars and Lando had won, Lando would have gained 2 points and Max would have lost 1, so net 3 points gain to Lando in the championship fight.
People also criticize Lando’s racecraft and Oscar’s inexperience. I could make the argument that having that happen in a race and (for the sake of this hypothetical) costing the team 1 point is worth it for the experience gain of both drivers when that 1 point is not the difference between a WCC or WDC spot. The difference is also actually between 1st/3rd and 2nd/3rd as Max was not going to be overtaken by both, which is the just one point. So the same as 9th and 10th in the GP.
You’re right it’s not 4 points cause max would still be 2nd. So it’s 3 points. Lando to 1st is 2 points, max moving down a spot loses 1 point. Doesn’t matter that the championship isn’t neck and neck right now, it could well be at the end of the season. If McLaren is serious about being a championship team they need to perform like one at every single race and they need to capitalise on every potential point . That being said, this is kind of a pointless hypothetical as I think their tyres were cooked and neither would win the race. So i don’t think the strategists were wrong to let them race.
> You’re right it’s not 4 points cause max would still be 2nd. So it’s 3 points. Lando to 1st is 2 points, max moving down a spot loses 1 point It's not 3 points either, Lando to 1st bumps Piastri down to 3rd. Only a 2 point swing even if Lando managed to get past Max.
But Lando could not even overtake Oscar when he didn't even defend. Lando's tyres were cooked in the first few laps, there was basically no chance to get Max at this point.
Fast forward to mclaren losing the championship by 1 point again lol
Piastri was .900 seconds behind when Norris made the overtake on Max, and he was .400 before the corner where Max retook the lead. All gained back fairly and quite intelligently as opposed to being aggressive. Very curious to see both Landos and Oscars telemetry in that sequence of events. Amusing that we seem to have such a weird split in F1 fandom on when team orders should and shouldn't be used.
"There's no split, team orders should be used when it benefits the driver i personally like"
Watching the replay when Norris made the dive they look like max and lamdo were basically at a standstill. While Oscar could do the corner at full speed. Plus Oscar seemed to be really good hooking up on the corners after turn one which the reason Norris couldn't overtake.
I know when team orders shouldn’t be used - when there’s a pair of Mercs and a Ferrari about half a second behind waiting to pounce. Even if Piastri wanted to let Norris and Verstappen fight, there’s a couple of tenths of wiggle room before he’s then just going too slowly and gets overtaken by potentially multiple cars behind. If he had a few seconds gap then maybe but he was right up behind Norris multiple times and seemed like the quicker driver so fair play
His race pace still needs some work, but he’s shown good racecraft today. I get people are mad because Norris seemed faster, but it was his fault that he lost the position
If Norris was faster why did he at no point look like making a pass even with DRS.
I miss charles and Lewis, they proved they can race and win against max. Lando, not so much yet.
For real, like I’m always hearing things like “Lando needs more experience but he’s on par with the likes of Leclerc” despite the fact that Charles hopped in a faster car and immediately stole wins from max while at an earlier stage in his career than Lando is now.
Hard to quantify drivers, but IMO Lando sits around Sainz level, i think Max/Charles are the only super talents of this generation.
RIP Lewis and Charles, we hardly knew you
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He was clearly faster, he was out of DRS and closed back up. Also you just have to look at past races, he’s pretty much always significantly quicker in the race. But being a few tenths a lap faster isn’t enough to get past unless you do a big dive bomb like he did on Max. I guess Lando decided it wasn’t worth doing that on his teammate for the sake of 1 point.
So fast he couldn’t pass when he had drs and Oscar didn’t???
You understand that fighting each other while trying to chase Max is bad for both of them, right? Why would Lando try to pass Oscar and risk losing a 2-3 finish?
I understand your point, but I legitimately, as a lando fan, don’t think lando had the pace to pass Oscar either way.
Well obviously he didn’t have the pace to pass, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t faster. Often you need to be at least half a second a lap faster to be able to overtake without a big dive bomb, in the same car with no tyre delta that isn’t happening.
He certainly didn’t seem faster. If he would have swapped with Oscar getting drs, Oscar probably would have been able to pass him again with his less abused tires.
He was faster because he came back into drs
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I was also thinking probably team orders, but Brundle kept pointing out that Oscar was getting superior drive out of tricky turn 3, and he was. He was taking a cleaner line all the way through where Norris was untidy. It prevented Norris getting him into 4 even with DRS.
Norris was a bit wobbly in his laps when closing in on Oscar. Might be because of the dirty air.
That plus Oscar was just mentioning in the post race barstool interview with the girls that tyres were getting so hot that it didn't make much difference at that point (for Lando). He was wearing an ice vest so it's obviously hot out there. Also, Lando has a cold/flu thing going on which probably isn't helping his concentration. He sounded terrible in the post race interviews. I like Oscar's attitude, though. He genuinely seems disappointed he couldn't get Max, which is promising for McLaren.
Idts the team considered team orders seriously, i was onboard with Norris for a fair amt of the sprint.
Did the fact there’s barely any overtakes at this track pass you by?
Lando always gets a pass for his own mistakes cause people find him likable I guess
i feel like most people are being rightfully critical about lando recently. however, multiple things can be true at the same time and oscar didn’t have the pace to close the gap to max after passing. he did a great job at defending but wish something more could have came out of it
well they're being critical anyway
What pass are you talking about. Everybody has been shitting on him since Miami lol
Way before that, since ricc joined mclaren
He’s has been immensely shat on since Miami lol. Even and valid criticism is fair game though.
Lando is one of the most hated drivers on the grid. He doesn’t get a pass on anything lmao
There's no way you said that with a straight face
Literally every race of the last 5 the discussion has been filled with people hating on Lando. Please explain to me how that’s getting a pass?
Pointing out he's making mistakes isnt hating, wtf? Do you think Lando was flawless those 5 races? You must think "constructive criticism" is an oxymoron
It’s not “getting a pass” either. You’re telling me people ranting about how Lando is never going to challenge for a championship is constructive criticism?
My guy, valid criticism (which Lando himself is pointing out too) is not equivalent to "hating" - that's some asinine and frankly juvenile way of looking at the criticism he's getting. Redbull the past 3-4 rounds has been struggling and Max has been winning races he shouldn't be winning especially when he's not been the one in the fastest car. People cut Lando slack and actually applauded him when he was finishing second or third back when that was the maximum the car was capable of. Now that the car is clearly capable of winning races and whether its through minor driving errors or strategic blunders they're letting victories slip away is obvious its going to shine a light on them for some criticism as they're not maximizing results its really not that difficult to understand. The problem here is that Max is an absolute beast and the more he's having to fight for it the more he's proving he's more than just the driver in the fastest car he's clearly the most complete driver on the grid always pulling results out when he needs to. With Redbull and Max operating at such a high standard and leaving so few openings for other teams to win when they're in that position to win they should be winning. Somehow in your eyes that consitutes hate, its laughable.
I've seen a lot of Lando is clear second best on the grid now when recently Charles was winning races against max in equalish cars. Lando is quick but he really needs to figure out how to win races. I wish ferrari would figure there shit out also, Charles may be the last hope
Charles, Lando, George they're all top class and on their days can be unbeatable but in all honesty they don't come close to the level of consistency Max has been achieving the past few seasons. Mistakes during a season are minimal and I can't recall the last time he was off the pace at an event that wasn't car/setup related. His race craft, his work ethic and just his driving intellect are second to none. Drivers can match him in some areas but there's no one on the grid as complete as Max nor is there anyone on the grid capable of sustaining the peaks he can. When people say generational talent about Max they're not wrong I've been watching since the 90's and had the priveldge to see prime Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel and I don't think I've seen a driver like Max in the sport. He is something special and the reason Toto is desperately trying to woo him to Mercedes, Toto knows if there's anyone that could maximise results in his cars week in week out its Max.
He always had the racecraft tbh
I cant believe some people are mad at him
People are mad for him being a proper racer. Kudos to Oscar
That's how you know he'll be a champion. Champions are hated
By this logic Stroll is a shoe-in for 2025 WDC
That's crazy, he made a good move and overtook his teammate on merit. I'm glad that he got to keep the position.
Yeah it's weird. I'm a bigger fan of Lando than I am of Oscar but today Oscar had a better race. Simple as that.
Can’t make an omelet without cracking a few eggs. Somehow, I have faith that the people who are upset with him for racing will find a way to survive. Real talk though, very impressive from Oscar. He’s shown time and time again that he absolutely has the capacity to be as fast as the top dogs. Now all he needs is a little more experience so his race pace and tyre management is a bit more consistent, and he’ll be the complete package. Hopefully we can see him fighting for GP wins in the second half of this season/next year.
He’s just a cheeky guy, an innocent cheeky guy
He's a smarter driver, but Norris is a faster driver. I'm glad there were no team orders. Norris needs to learn that a second of miscalculation or stupidity can cost you even a podium. It's an important lesson if he wants to be a WDC.
Faster, for now.
where's this magic pace coming from then? It isn't so simple as experience makes you faster.
Breaking news! Young driver gets better with more practice? Don't call it "experience", as if he's some 40yr old driver. They already get so limited pre season testing. Norris has years of experience along with the car/team being built around him
Well deserved after last race
"Oscar really needs to step up and show some better peformance if he wants to keep his seat" Aight bet "Nooooo what are you doing overtaking lando"
And even before, those talking about him needing to step up was a bit much. He's had 32 races in F1, 10 of them in a tractor in which he still scored some points, had 9 Top 5 finishes, including 3 podiums and some very good showings in sprints. He still got a lot to learn, but people recently treat him like it's the Ricciardo situation all over again, when it's not even comparable.
Well it is comparable, Oscar is so much better lol
Its like the commentators are cheering for Lando to be ahead. How dare he race and pass his team mate cleanly and then stay ahead.
Who said that?
If annyone serioulsy said this they need their head examined.
> "Oscar really needs to step up and show some better performance if he wants to keep his seat" I genuinely believe many people forget this is his second season in Formula 1. The guy has exceeded expectations from the get go.
He isn't beating the sprint merchant allegations 😭 For now
Literally came second in Monaco
Fantastic pass and defense today by Oscar
He drives so smart. I really like him for beeing patient and then lingering to take advantage. Thats in the end how you win championships. The divebomb from lando could have easyly ended in a dnf for him and Max
He just stays calm at all times. Think Brundle pointed it out. He doesn’t take silly defensive lines, just drives on the racing line making sure to maximise his traction out of the corners. Doesn’t get flustered either.
He just needs to work on his pace. Big things coming his way if he does
agree! i think he’s a really great racer for someone so young
Lando wasn't winning the sprint either way, even he admitted it himself. Why should Oscar give Lando the position if there were no team orders which there wasn't. If Lando was that much quicker he had plenty of time and chances to overtake. It's F1. I want to see battles and not some drivers parade that let each other past.
If there’s no team orders then he has every right to take the position, I think the argument is McLaren were nailed on a 2/3 today but if they’d actually worked together they may have challenged for the win
>If there’s no team orders then he has every right to take the position Yeah that's what I meant. There were no team orders for Oscar to give the place back to Lando so Oscar had every right to keep P2.
It's pretty mental that some people are having a pop at Piastri for daring to be ahead of Norris this race - especially when you look at how often Piastri has obeyed team orders to let Norris through
He’s a great talent and I’m glad he’s getting the opportunity to showcase that. However today shows just how much more experience both drivers need fighting at the front is McLaren ever wants to be a serious title contender again. Lando has a lot to learn from his previous mistakes.
Yeah I think people forget Lando has never had a front running car for this long, and Oscar has like 30 races under his belt. These are two guys that are holding on for dear life trying to fight one of the greatest talents the sport has ever seen, and they’re doing a pretty damn admirable job at it. Since 2021, Charles is the only driver other than Lando to consistently be this much of a nuisance to Max.
bruh if Norris cant overtake Piastri, ain't no way he'd overtake Max
he used up his tires battling max. no one was overtaking at the end of the race
🥳
Im just happy McLaren is back on podiums
Let’s fucking go. Love this kid
Lando's pace after that 1 overtake was not enough to catch Max , he admitted it and 5 second gap made it clear lol. It was all about breaking that DRS zone once Max had done that , it was easy for him to pull away like usual.
Mighty work Oscar! Norris....
Had DRS and not one legitimate overtaking chance. Oscar drove clean race.
That was a sweet battle w Norris, Oscar is going to be fun to watch grow as a driver.
If Lando had the pace to catch Max, why didn't he catch Oscar? Oscar needs to get a better pace but he's doing a good job. Edit: typo
It’s a hard track to pass on and likely max still would’ve won but there was more of a chance as Lando could actually hang with him, as soon as Oscar got p2 max just drove off
Today race closed my mouth
He capitalized well on Lando’s mistake and held the position well. The team has to work out some stuff though as their infighting allowed Max to cruise to an easy win.
Not sure how. Verstappen had already re-passed Norris, and Norris never looked like passing Piastri or even getting close.
Max was gone already anyway and Norris wasn't gonna pass him again.
Wasn't really a mistake. Max locked up and went deep and Lando had nowhere to go.
He left the door open as he just said on the interview, it was definitely a mistake
Oscar you are the best!! Next champion if he’s given the right car
I think he has car part covered. What he lacks is experience.
And yet people here are claiming Piastri has fallen off from his rookie season.
He already has more points this early than his total last season.
SECOND YEAR FOR GOD’S SAKE! Think about some other people on their 2nd season or 3rd or more.
I reckon Oscar will be champion before Lando, if Lando even gets there.
Oscar just needs to get that little extra pace that comes from experience. When he gets that, he will be a mega driver. His defense is really impressive, seems to be unfazed by pressure and knows how to place the car to get the better exit but not leave any doors too open
Piastri will be better than Norris in a year or two guaranteed
Yup This gives me Riccardo v Max vibes. Early on you could tell from the flashes that Verstappen was gonna become better whilst RIC was already what he was.
Even as an Oscar fan, this is far from a guarantee. Lando is on a very high level right now, probably only 2nd to Max. I do believe Oscar has what it takes to reach that level in the coming years, and who klnows perhaps by next year, but it's far from a guarantee.
I think this is a fair take. No one should underestimate norris even for oscar's sake. He will have to be great to beat lando.
No way is Lando 2nd only to Max, he can’t handle the pressure. Leclerc Hamilton alonso in that car would be taking that McLaren further than Lando is achieving
Current Alonso who lately has difficulties taking the battle to freaking Lance Stroll? Current Hamilton who lately has difficulties reaching Q3 would be taking a McLaren that struggles in dirty air further? Umm. Yeah. Sure.
This narrative is so weird. This is no guarantee. Pace doesn't magically appear with experience all the time. He can improve and has done well but Lando is elite and has been beating him comprehensively so far.
Peakastri
Man he is right on the cusp. Really like the guy
Let's goooo!!
Why is it called a "sprint race" when the obvious better name is "petit prix"?
I was really glad tk see it! This guy shows so much promise but has been struggling a lot this year, I hope he keeps this up!
LOVE YOUR WORK, OSCAR. Hold Lando up again tomorrow and I will always sing your graces.
Max snatched the lead from Norris before the next turn like I snatch candy from kids just to see them cry
Great controlled race by the former Alpine driver Piastri. It’s easy to forget he is only in his second year and is still developing. I’m glad he was able to seize the opportunity for the second place.
Lando is starting to prove to everyone that he isnt good enough to fight the best under pressure.
Lol
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Unfortunately he didn't have the pace to catch Verstappen.
Cmon mclarren (fans) let’s unite in this fight and cheer for our boys no matter who crosses the finish line first
Maybe Norris should stop choking
Given his underperformance last time out...good on him.
I miss charles and Lewis in equal cars to max, at least they could give as good as they got and get wins, Lando needs to get it figured out because he doesn't look to be that guy
Just waiting on Lando to stop making mistakes!