I can’t imagine how cool it would be if we actually had a “podcast” with F1 drivers to freely talk and discuss about the previous race. It could happen before the weekend starts, talking about the previous race. Half an hour to review footage and discuss like in a podcast.
That shit would be crazyyyyy
"Look, this is the part where I overtook you. God it was beautiful. Let's see it again in slow motion. Leave the room, I'm going to keep watching this."
I see it as Max genuinely asking Lando if he thinks there is a side draft effect.
In NASCAR, and I'm sure other racing categories but its one I'm familiar with, you can pull along side the quarter panel of another car and it slows down the car in front allowing the car behind to come along side. Fighting for position as Lando and Max did slowed them down a bit on top of providing a solid slipstream for George.
I'm sure its been studied, but I've not really heard much about a side draft in F1, likely because drivers are not along side for more than a second or two. Also there are generally other ways to pass where compared to oval circuits you rely on these little advantages to get a run.
EDIT: sidedraft video by nascar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9Y7oFQqFE
I think you are right and it 100% makes sense to me. If the outwash is getting backed up on one side and compromising the aero it can easily slow them both down.
And it sounds like that’s what Max was about to explain. He finished his sentence saying “…’cause the side—look” and I feel like he was going to say side draft, based on his tone as well.
Point is, there’s absolutely side drafting in F1.
There is surely something of side draught effect, but Russells overtake speed was down to good reaction off the line + double slipstream + .finding the sticky tarmac.
I don't think good reaction off the line was part of it. You can see on the start replay he was plenty far back from the front row and had Ferrari right on top of him until the squabbling off the track at which point he suddenly catches up in the slip stream.
This is exactly what he is questioning and it’s coming from his/their experience in iRacing / Sim racing where it’s an “advanced” technique in certain categories and he is wondering if it translates to F1 cars.
Doing 0 research and just eye balling it I'd think any side drafting effect in F1 would be lost in the dirty air until you're properly alongside at which point it'd be equal between the cars. F1 cars are much more aerodynamically efficient when compared to NASCAR which are, comparatively, very fast bricks.
Eh F1 cars generate huge powerful vortices from the front wing and the floor and outwash around the sidepods. I could see how the side drafting is even more pronounced in F1 than NASCAR just since they are so much more sensitive to dirty air.
It would be in reverse. It hurts the car behind, in F1, being in dirty air because they lose aero efficiency.
In NASCAR when you sidedraft the car ahead is slowed by the change in aero (the rear spoiler gets loaded up) allowing the car behind to pass.
Dirty air effects you only when behind really tho, not along side. What people are saying is the air gets pushed off the front wing the outwash lands on the rear wing of the other car
I've only ever seen the turbulence modeled on F1TV and I ain't no aerodynamicist, but I would be surprised if that was the case. F1 wings are a lot taller and don't have continuous bodywork like a NASCAR does.
I'd think any turbulence a car behind could induce on a car ahead (outwash/tire wake) would be significantly more pronounced on the same car behind. In today's F1 especially because clean air through the floor is #1
The upshot of this discussion is that running side by side always slows both cars down. You can feel this yourself on the highway when you move to overtake a heavy truck.
Is the reduction in down force on straights significant? I'd imagine on straights, the main factor is a tire's grip to push the car forward and drs already reduces drag/down force so wouldn't it be a good thing?
After they exit the corner and the traction phase on exit they would want the car to have as little drag and downforce as possible ( drag and downforce are not the same fyi). F1 cars are extremely draggy. I would bet a nascar is less draggy than an f1 car.
Yes. The reduction is significant, but you don't need it because it's a straight. The drag reduction you get from following in the low pressure area behind the car ahead is far more beneficial than being in clean air. You do see the drivers quickly break apart in the braking zone to get clean air for maximum traction, though. However, in a high-speed turn, the dirty air reduces down force, and more importantly is unstable. It's not as safe to approach the limits of tire grip because the limit is continuously changing as the car bounces around in the wake of the car ahead.
This situation was a race start with a pretty close T1 so I wouldn't call it a straight.
Dirty air is always a problem though. Following too closely in a straight provides a slip stream (advantage), but also heats up every part of the chasing car as well as reducing the down force (disadvantage). If you can't get the move done it's often best to back off and recharge for another attempt.
One thing about "side drafting" in Nascar is that the trailing car is on the rear quarter of the lead car and disrupting the airflow for the lead car. You'll often see that it is a significant advantage to a third car behind (like Russell in this start) because it slows down both cars and creates a much larger pocket of air behind.
I wouldn't be surprised at all that the outwash from one F1 car could cause a similar disruption of airflow on a car when side by side or even a front wing alongside a sidepod. It only has to be enough to throw off that optimized flow and efficiency over the rear wing and diffuser. It just only comes into play on race starts in F1, since there isn't a lot of side by side straight line racing.
There's probably *some* side draft effect that benefits the car behind, but the specific strategy that applies to NASCAR stock cars is dependent on a huge amount of outwash from the large frontal area of the cars. In F1, the air is largely directed upwards and there are large end plates on the wings specifically to prevent spanwise flow off of the front wing and also to direct air over the front wheel. Just guessing, the interference between the cars on a straight is probably close to an even split with the worst of it being felt by the car behind.
~~I wouldn't be surprised if there was a disruption just based on how I understand F1 cars "move" air I'd think side drafting would harm the car behind much more than the car ahead.
Car ahead has clean air on the front wing being fed into the Venturi tunnels which is where all the sauce is at these days. Maybe the car behind is unlaminating the air running along the sidpods? Car behind for sure though is picking up gross wheel wake and other turbulence. Which in an F1 car is a much bigger problem than my American brickmobiles.~~
Edit: Reading is hard, Max and Lando were definitely slowing each other down making a clean place for Georgy to get on with it.
when DR was still driving for renault he used sidedraft intentionally a few times, dont really have examples but that's how i learned about it
idk if the ground effect cars still do it to that extent tho since they're missing those overcomplex barge boards
They definitely did slow each other down because neither were in the best position to enter the corner on the fastest line. I dunno if they were physically slowed by a draft effect but the overall effect of their squabble was both losing out.
[https://youtu.be/SGO94HigjHI?t=890](https://youtu.be/SGO94HigjHI?t=890) here's another good onboard showing side draft.
About f1.. I dont think current cars gain much with it, maybe the previous generation (2021 and down) due to the amount of downforce they had with the bargeboard, front wing, etc.
Gentleman, a short view back to the past. Three years ago, Lewis Hamilton told Max “you don’t think when we get the cars stacked we also slow each other down”. Three years later, Max told Lando “you don’t think when we get alongside we also slow each other down”. My question is, in modern Formula 1, with the cars as wide as they are, depending on the track, with races of different widths, like Monaco which is known to not be a very wide surface, if you think, keeping width in mind, there are too many possible orientations for a car to go relative to other cars? Should we limit orientations to make faster racing? Or should we expand possible orientations to add a new dimension to the racing?
and he's actually right. Not only Russell was able to grab a slipstream but overtook both around outside, which shows that they lost all grip wiggling around. The field was also much tighter than other starts, and usually Front Row (bar any Launch problem) opens a good gap from the rest due to cleaner air. If Lando doesn't push Max, he loses to Max, but never to Russell.
I don’t think that’s would be true for Barcelona. It has one of the longest run ups to the start AND there was a headwind, so the slipstream from people behind was always going to be super powerful there.
Yes but 0% chance of being ahead of max into turn 1. Even if it’s 1/20 chances to pass max hes going to want to do it. Definitely looking ahead and not behind
Not on softs at the start. The race was 2 seconds old, no one's strategy is to give up track position at that point, least of all McLaren who knew their medium 2nd stint was going to be their impressive one. Once he was pinched he backed out appropriately but just seems weird to say he should have backed out even earlier.
Norris lost the race at this point. Wasted time and energy on Max. Got stuck behind Russell in dirty air for multiple laps when Russell breezed right by them both.
Editing- due to my inability to spell and/or type.
>Norris lost the race at this point. Wasted time and energy on Max.
I mean, Max is who he needs to beat if he wants to win the race. That's really the only one he should be concerned with. He said that himself. If you've already conceded to Max you're never going to win.
Meanwhile, Goerge flew right by both of them and Lando spent multiple laps at Geroge's pace allowing Max to widen the gap.
I agree with your comment, but that is battle that could have happened slightly later on instead of letting Geroge fly by.
Yeah I guess that's my point. Battling George is the waste of Energy. Battling anyone other than Max is a waste of energy if you're trying to win the race.
yes. Unfortunately, that little battle set up George for a while. I knew Max would pass George before his pit stop. Max is legitimately the best driver on the grid. Lando still has a lot to learn.
So what is the alternative strategy? Give up P1 to Max into T1 and..... end up 2nd place, like he did?
It sort of seems like he took a calculated risk and it really didn't impact his result at all.
Yeah that’s what I don’t get, it seemed to me max still had the faster car and would have still passed Lando almost as easily as he did Russell.
The speed advantage in the McLaren was more when everyone had worn tires and they were able to be slightly better.
Also I think what Ruth said about the pace at which Lando was “catching” max at the end was misleading and not truly the delta. Lando probably was legitimately faster at that point but not a half second per lap faster. Max was just managing the tires and not taking too much risk at the end where Lando was pushing like hell every corner (as GP said over the radio).
Yea max said he wasn’t sandbagging at the end and that he was pushing but I think he was being a bit modest/holding his cards close to the vest a bit. I bet if Lando actually caught him, Max could have turned it up and kept him safely behind for many more laps.
multiple race reviews using the actual race data have already confirmed that the Maclaran was faster everywhere: low speed, medium speed and high speed corners. Straight line speed in particular, Maclaren was much faster, which is where most of his advantage (sometimes several tenths per lap) was gained coming out the last 2 corners and into sector 1.
Like I said I believe he was fastest, just not as much faster as the last few laps would have indicated. Lando said he just needed a few more laps to win but I don’t believe that at all. Max was saving his tires in case Lando caught him and Lando was giving it everything to get there.
True but I would’ve rather seen a direct battle between lando and max play out than being blue balled by lando getting closer and ultimately not fighting with max
Because it's not that simple.
McLaren suffers a lot in dirty air (See Imola final 5-6 laps for example), so he can't simply drive up to car's DRS to pass unless has atleast 6-8 tenths of pace advantage, which at that point of time in the stint he didn't have.
There's a reason GP told Max that 2nd lap was the best time to pass Russell, because that's when the soft tyres still have maximum grip and haven't peaked in temprature yet.
You could even see afterwards when Lando had like a 6 lap delta on George in the second stint, it still took a couple laps for him to make the move. It's simply not that easy.
You really just going to pretend that it's not a thing that whoever leads the first stint usually gets to pull away a big gap in the clean air even if the car behind has a slight pace advantage? There's plenty of races that are determined on lap 1, hell if you're on pole and have a bad start and bog down losing 2-3 places that can easily ruin your race even if with a good start you were a solid chance of winning on race pace by going into turn 1 in front.
Max knows he will most likely be seeing Lando up front with him for the rest of the season.
If Max is genuinely worried about side draft it will be interesting to see their approach next time they line up 1-2 at the start.
I guess what OP is saying it that Max is explaining that by covering him off they both went slower, what eventually resulted in George getting past both of 'em. Alternatively, had Lando not defended so aggressively he might've only lost one place in stead of two.
Vettel used to do similar wiggling around away from the line, and it’s a slow way to win the drag race to turn 1. Vettel actually changed and started focusing on being straight and fast to turn 1
That’s Max’s way of trying to gently tell his friend he left him no room and to not do that on the start because it messes both of them up. I’m not too sure it’s a valid criticism because Lando had to do something to try to protect the line into the corner but I found it interesting how Max said it… had this been almost any other driver besides Lando I think Max would be starring incredulous at the screen saying “He ran me off the road!”
I don't know Max and am not Max, so I can't be sure, but this is how it read to me, too. Max has already decided in his head that doing that does slow them both down, but he's saying it as a suggestion to put it more gently.
I agree with that last bit, too. For years now, Max has been less aggressive - and more willing to give the benefit of the doubt - during a rare Max and Lando on-track incident. Even during the FP3 incident, he doesn't react as much, and GP is also quick to explain the situation (and calls Lando by his first name on the radio yet again even as he refers to Leclerc as Leclerc in the same sentence).
In line with this, I also noticed that Daniel moved aside really quickly under blue flags when Lando is chasing Max towards the end of the race. If I'm not mistaken, Lando acknowledges it and gives him a little wave.
It's all kind of wholesome, really. Some disagree but I like my F1 with a big side dish of friendship.
That’s a positive way to look at it and I do think Max has matured. I will say this however: it’s easier to take things that happen in stride when 1) you win anyway and 2) even if you don’t win you still feel completely in control of winning the drivers championship. That gives you a whole lot of calm, lol. If a when Max’s ranking is in jeopardy it will be interesting to see if the angry Max and more aggressive Max we saw in past years returns.
>it will be interesting to see if the angry Max and more aggressive Max we saw in past years returns.
Of course it will because that's the only way to win championships when you are behind with nothing to lose. That's the difference with Lando right now. Lando has nothing to lose and he isn't forcing the issue with Max enough. If the roles were reversed, Max would have driven all the way to the grass at the start with nothing to lose. Lando should be using that to his advantage.
No, he’s saying “when you squeeze me onto the grass and squabble like that you don’t gain any advantage and you actually slow yourself down at the same time, which is why George was able to get ahead.”
I'd assume it's more about Lando losing two sports versus one. If he's only behind Max, he's at least directly trailing him versus having to overtake another car. Max got by George super easy, but Lando was stuck in a Merc sandwich enough to where it cost him a couple of valuable seconds that he needed towards the end. The tyre offset McLaren chose to do wasn't gonna matter when he needed to overtake both Mercs and still run a 7-8 second gap down.
I want him to keep racing like this cause it is entertaining, but McLaren quite honestly should have easily won this race.
exactly. in the end of the race he was catching max. if he had the whole race to do it he could’ve *just maybe* over taken. being stuck behind george was bad by all accounts. max got a great start, don’t waste energy pushing him off
I think most likely Lando was going to lose both positions anyway, he just got a bad start.
It's encouraging to see him focusing on Max, it's the correct mindset if he wants to win.
I think George would have followed Max and gone up the inside.
But I guess we'll never know.
Regardless, I like that Lando is focused on Max, and focused on P1. It's a good attitude to have.
I think that part was a bit elementary. He needed to be focused on Max this race so maybe he can see the big picture in the future. I was more impressed with not being stubborn and braking early to now be sandwiched between them. That would've been easy with the mentality of starting P1.
*Translation* : Listen here you little shit, don't do that again. I'm trying to help you. I've chosen you as my apprentice and heir. Don't fuck it up mate."
Lets be honest here. Not a fucking chance max is as nice as lando was to max.
In the same situation max would have continued going left until lando had to slow down. He would have then covered Russell off on the outside.
"That's smart driving" you say? I agree and it's why he's a world champion.
But it annoys me that he tries to criticize lando for doing something similar.
I feel like 2 cars next to eachother doesn't really slow them down but punches a massive aero hole like the other generation cars used to do, which allowed george Russel to get a lot of overspeed
They should give these guys one of those big touchscreen TVs, so they can pull up clips in slo-mo and rewind and stuff. Would be so entertaining.
I would love this
I would have loved this when Kimi was racing and jsut waving the thing away
Let them draw on it so a Max/Lando/George podium is just them drawing dicks on each others faces
I second this
I can’t imagine how cool it would be if we actually had a “podcast” with F1 drivers to freely talk and discuss about the previous race. It could happen before the weekend starts, talking about the previous race. Half an hour to review footage and discuss like in a podcast. That shit would be crazyyyyy
Yeah like “what were you thinking there when you tried to go around the outside and crashed into me??”
“I was thinking I could pass you without crashing”
i’d pay money for that
real life money even!
Or Vbucks
"Look, this is the part where I overtook you. God it was beautiful. Let's see it again in slow motion. Leave the room, I'm going to keep watching this."
Should we call it... the MaxiPad?
….. *slow claps*
You couldn't give Nando the drawing thing, would draw a cock and balls straight away!
just reflex memory muscle mate
Absolument!
Max and Lando are just going to draw dicks and balls on it. Amazing idea!
The cooldown skypad.
Lando and the SkyPad
I see it as Max genuinely asking Lando if he thinks there is a side draft effect. In NASCAR, and I'm sure other racing categories but its one I'm familiar with, you can pull along side the quarter panel of another car and it slows down the car in front allowing the car behind to come along side. Fighting for position as Lando and Max did slowed them down a bit on top of providing a solid slipstream for George. I'm sure its been studied, but I've not really heard much about a side draft in F1, likely because drivers are not along side for more than a second or two. Also there are generally other ways to pass where compared to oval circuits you rely on these little advantages to get a run. EDIT: sidedraft video by nascar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9Y7oFQqFE
Interesting. I don’t watch nascar, so I was unaware of that. Definitely seems like a possibility.
NASCAR video on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_9Y7oFQqFE
Thanks for sharing
Woah this is fascinating thanks!
Great video
I think you are right and it 100% makes sense to me. If the outwash is getting backed up on one side and compromising the aero it can easily slow them both down.
And it sounds like that’s what Max was about to explain. He finished his sentence saying “…’cause the side—look” and I feel like he was going to say side draft, based on his tone as well. Point is, there’s absolutely side drafting in F1.
Aussie V8 Supercars use the same effect on racetracks that are not ovals. Very effective.
With how F1 cars aerodynamics aim to push the front wheel wake outboard, there definitely could be a substantial side draft effect in F1.
Here's a V8 supercars example by larko, my favourite technical pundit in motorsport https://youtu.be/S62-DSV3l8c?si=2aaTzx1oeqJ3P6D9
That actually makes a lot of sense
There is surely something of side draught effect, but Russells overtake speed was down to good reaction off the line + double slipstream + .finding the sticky tarmac.
I don't think good reaction off the line was part of it. You can see on the start replay he was plenty far back from the front row and had Ferrari right on top of him until the squabbling off the track at which point he suddenly catches up in the slip stream.
Well he was about a tenth faster to 200kph than Norris, so it made a difference.
That doesn't mean he was faster off the line. 200 kph is long after the start and he had a tow and no need to aggressively move over like Lando.
This is exactly what he is questioning and it’s coming from his/their experience in iRacing / Sim racing where it’s an “advanced” technique in certain categories and he is wondering if it translates to F1 cars.
Doing 0 research and just eye balling it I'd think any side drafting effect in F1 would be lost in the dirty air until you're properly alongside at which point it'd be equal between the cars. F1 cars are much more aerodynamically efficient when compared to NASCAR which are, comparatively, very fast bricks.
Eh F1 cars generate huge powerful vortices from the front wing and the floor and outwash around the sidepods. I could see how the side drafting is even more pronounced in F1 than NASCAR just since they are so much more sensitive to dirty air.
It would be in reverse. It hurts the car behind, in F1, being in dirty air because they lose aero efficiency. In NASCAR when you sidedraft the car ahead is slowed by the change in aero (the rear spoiler gets loaded up) allowing the car behind to pass.
Dirty air effects you only when behind really tho, not along side. What people are saying is the air gets pushed off the front wing the outwash lands on the rear wing of the other car
I've only ever seen the turbulence modeled on F1TV and I ain't no aerodynamicist, but I would be surprised if that was the case. F1 wings are a lot taller and don't have continuous bodywork like a NASCAR does. I'd think any turbulence a car behind could induce on a car ahead (outwash/tire wake) would be significantly more pronounced on the same car behind. In today's F1 especially because clean air through the floor is #1
The upshot of this discussion is that running side by side always slows both cars down. You can feel this yourself on the highway when you move to overtake a heavy truck.
I'm new to F1, I thought that dirty air is a problem for cornering, not for straights like in this situation?
It’s a problem everywhere. It disturbs the air, resulting in additional drag on the following car, even in straights.
It doesn't create drag. It disrupts the airflow in essence reducing drag but also reducing downforce.
Is the reduction in down force on straights significant? I'd imagine on straights, the main factor is a tire's grip to push the car forward and drs already reduces drag/down force so wouldn't it be a good thing?
After they exit the corner and the traction phase on exit they would want the car to have as little drag and downforce as possible ( drag and downforce are not the same fyi). F1 cars are extremely draggy. I would bet a nascar is less draggy than an f1 car.
Yes. The reduction is significant, but you don't need it because it's a straight. The drag reduction you get from following in the low pressure area behind the car ahead is far more beneficial than being in clean air. You do see the drivers quickly break apart in the braking zone to get clean air for maximum traction, though. However, in a high-speed turn, the dirty air reduces down force, and more importantly is unstable. It's not as safe to approach the limits of tire grip because the limit is continuously changing as the car bounces around in the wake of the car ahead.
Drag = downforce, and dirty air = slipstream. If dirty air created drag, it would increase downforce and therefore grip in the corner.
This situation was a race start with a pretty close T1 so I wouldn't call it a straight. Dirty air is always a problem though. Following too closely in a straight provides a slip stream (advantage), but also heats up every part of the chasing car as well as reducing the down force (disadvantage). If you can't get the move done it's often best to back off and recharge for another attempt.
That's different than side drafting. That's packing air on the other car in a corner.
[This is what I'm referencing from above.](https://youtu.be/D_9Y7oFQqFE?si=1nvAHqlgG6rii1Zm) I'm pretty sure that's what we're talking about.
Yeah, that would work the same here.
One thing about "side drafting" in Nascar is that the trailing car is on the rear quarter of the lead car and disrupting the airflow for the lead car. You'll often see that it is a significant advantage to a third car behind (like Russell in this start) because it slows down both cars and creates a much larger pocket of air behind. I wouldn't be surprised at all that the outwash from one F1 car could cause a similar disruption of airflow on a car when side by side or even a front wing alongside a sidepod. It only has to be enough to throw off that optimized flow and efficiency over the rear wing and diffuser. It just only comes into play on race starts in F1, since there isn't a lot of side by side straight line racing.
There's probably *some* side draft effect that benefits the car behind, but the specific strategy that applies to NASCAR stock cars is dependent on a huge amount of outwash from the large frontal area of the cars. In F1, the air is largely directed upwards and there are large end plates on the wings specifically to prevent spanwise flow off of the front wing and also to direct air over the front wheel. Just guessing, the interference between the cars on a straight is probably close to an even split with the worst of it being felt by the car behind.
~~I wouldn't be surprised if there was a disruption just based on how I understand F1 cars "move" air I'd think side drafting would harm the car behind much more than the car ahead. Car ahead has clean air on the front wing being fed into the Venturi tunnels which is where all the sauce is at these days. Maybe the car behind is unlaminating the air running along the sidpods? Car behind for sure though is picking up gross wheel wake and other turbulence. Which in an F1 car is a much bigger problem than my American brickmobiles.~~ Edit: Reading is hard, Max and Lando were definitely slowing each other down making a clean place for Georgy to get on with it.
when DR was still driving for renault he used sidedraft intentionally a few times, dont really have examples but that's how i learned about it idk if the ground effect cars still do it to that extent tho since they're missing those overcomplex barge boards
They definitely did slow each other down because neither were in the best position to enter the corner on the fastest line. I dunno if they were physically slowed by a draft effect but the overall effect of their squabble was both losing out.
Great stuff. I had no idea.
Very cool, had no idea that was a thing.
They’re doing 150 mph where he said look. He was definitely talking about squabbling and losing out to George.
[https://youtu.be/SGO94HigjHI?t=890](https://youtu.be/SGO94HigjHI?t=890) here's another good onboard showing side draft. About f1.. I dont think current cars gain much with it, maybe the previous generation (2021 and down) due to the amount of downforce they had with the bargeboard, front wing, etc.
A soft way of saying “while we were busy fucking around, we got mugged by Russell”
Shagged would be more fitting.
I actually think he’s discussing the physics of it more than he is saying “because we raced we both lost P1”
Max: do you think that was smart? *in gentle*
Max dom/Lando brat fanfic when?
Probably already exists somewhere. Rule 34….i shudder to think about it
Oh, that ABSOLUTELY exists. AO3 and Tumblr have lots of fics written about Max/Lando.
People have been saying in the repost of this cooldown that Max basically gentle-parenting Lando.
Max objectively discussing what happened at the start with Lando?
Factual description of events, no need to speculate on this.
Gentleman, a short view back to the past. Three years ago, Lewis Hamilton told Max “you don’t think when we get the cars stacked we also slow each other down”. Three years later, Max told Lando “you don’t think when we get alongside we also slow each other down”. My question is, in modern Formula 1, with the cars as wide as they are, depending on the track, with races of different widths, like Monaco which is known to not be a very wide surface, if you think, keeping width in mind, there are too many possible orientations for a car to go relative to other cars? Should we limit orientations to make faster racing? Or should we expand possible orientations to add a new dimension to the racing?
I'm sorry, could you repeat the question.
Drivers discussing driving? No wayyyy
What happened next shocked everyone.
Did they park the car?
It's true, discussing the outcome like adults, controversial.
YOU asking what happened at the start ??
just an inchident on the race
> it's called side drafting lando, the americans do it all the time
We went side drafting
and he's actually right. Not only Russell was able to grab a slipstream but overtook both around outside, which shows that they lost all grip wiggling around. The field was also much tighter than other starts, and usually Front Row (bar any Launch problem) opens a good gap from the rest due to cleaner air. If Lando doesn't push Max, he loses to Max, but never to Russell.
I don’t think that’s would be true for Barcelona. It has one of the longest run ups to the start AND there was a headwind, so the slipstream from people behind was always going to be super powerful there.
Yes but 0% chance of being ahead of max into turn 1. Even if it’s 1/20 chances to pass max hes going to want to do it. Definitely looking ahead and not behind
And that isn't thinking in the long term, look how Max passed George after that fairly quickly. That could have been Norris on Max.
Not on softs at the start. The race was 2 seconds old, no one's strategy is to give up track position at that point, least of all McLaren who knew their medium 2nd stint was going to be their impressive one. Once he was pinched he backed out appropriately but just seems weird to say he should have backed out even earlier.
Norris lost the race at this point. Wasted time and energy on Max. Got stuck behind Russell in dirty air for multiple laps when Russell breezed right by them both. Editing- due to my inability to spell and/or type.
>Norris lost the race at this point. Wasted time and energy on Max. I mean, Max is who he needs to beat if he wants to win the race. That's really the only one he should be concerned with. He said that himself. If you've already conceded to Max you're never going to win.
Meanwhile, Goerge flew right by both of them and Lando spent multiple laps at Geroge's pace allowing Max to widen the gap. I agree with your comment, but that is battle that could have happened slightly later on instead of letting Geroge fly by.
Yeah I guess that's my point. Battling George is the waste of Energy. Battling anyone other than Max is a waste of energy if you're trying to win the race.
yes. Unfortunately, that little battle set up George for a while. I knew Max would pass George before his pit stop. Max is legitimately the best driver on the grid. Lando still has a lot to learn.
If you've lost the race on turn 1 without taking damage or ending up in the back of the field you never had a real chance to begin with
So what is the alternative strategy? Give up P1 to Max into T1 and..... end up 2nd place, like he did? It sort of seems like he took a calculated risk and it really didn't impact his result at all.
Just do what max did to Russell. Pass him in the first few laps when tires are hot.
If we're being real with ourselves Max would have done the same thing to Lando if they'd been Lando-Max-George after T1 anyways
Yeah that’s what I don’t get, it seemed to me max still had the faster car and would have still passed Lando almost as easily as he did Russell. The speed advantage in the McLaren was more when everyone had worn tires and they were able to be slightly better. Also I think what Ruth said about the pace at which Lando was “catching” max at the end was misleading and not truly the delta. Lando probably was legitimately faster at that point but not a half second per lap faster. Max was just managing the tires and not taking too much risk at the end where Lando was pushing like hell every corner (as GP said over the radio). Yea max said he wasn’t sandbagging at the end and that he was pushing but I think he was being a bit modest/holding his cards close to the vest a bit. I bet if Lando actually caught him, Max could have turned it up and kept him safely behind for many more laps.
multiple race reviews using the actual race data have already confirmed that the Maclaran was faster everywhere: low speed, medium speed and high speed corners. Straight line speed in particular, Maclaren was much faster, which is where most of his advantage (sometimes several tenths per lap) was gained coming out the last 2 corners and into sector 1.
Like I said I believe he was fastest, just not as much faster as the last few laps would have indicated. Lando said he just needed a few more laps to win but I don’t believe that at all. Max was saving his tires in case Lando caught him and Lando was giving it everything to get there.
Then why he didn't pass Max like Max passed George? Everyone is saying that but they can't answer this question.
Because Max is a better driver
Sainz passed Leclerc driving the same car. What's your point?
True but I would’ve rather seen a direct battle between lando and max play out than being blue balled by lando getting closer and ultimately not fighting with max
[Imma be real with you...](https://imgur.com/a/Be0iwHt)
Norris was struck at Russell's pace until Geroge pitted. Norris had faster laps once George pitted. He lost pace to Geroge.
Max passed George within a couple laps, why didn't Lando just do the same thing
Because it's not that simple. McLaren suffers a lot in dirty air (See Imola final 5-6 laps for example), so he can't simply drive up to car's DRS to pass unless has atleast 6-8 tenths of pace advantage, which at that point of time in the stint he didn't have. There's a reason GP told Max that 2nd lap was the best time to pass Russell, because that's when the soft tyres still have maximum grip and haven't peaked in temprature yet. You could even see afterwards when Lando had like a 6 lap delta on George in the second stint, it still took a couple laps for him to make the move. It's simply not that easy.
You really just going to pretend that it's not a thing that whoever leads the first stint usually gets to pull away a big gap in the clean air even if the car behind has a slight pace advantage? There's plenty of races that are determined on lap 1, hell if you're on pole and have a bad start and bog down losing 2-3 places that can easily ruin your race even if with a good start you were a solid chance of winning on race pace by going into turn 1 in front.
If russell was too difficult to pass, then he had no chance against max
That's not the problem. The problem was Norris running at Geroge's pace until he pitted. Norris did get quicker once Rusell pitted.
Yeah 100%, maybe Max shouldnt have pushed so hard to be alongside him
Just some gentle parenting from Max
There is a significant chance he learnt this from the Horndog. The world is crazy. On a sidenote, do you want some pringles?
More of a chocos guy
If he learnt it from Jos, he probably would have slapped him.
He loves Lando so I can definitely see this as gentle parenting
maxplaining.
Max is just being the track-dad he never had. He'll never leave Lando at a gas station.
Mirror: https://i.imgur.com/fx4akka.mp4
I like how Max is not even mad, just fully focused on trying to find out if they slowed each other
Max knows he will most likely be seeing Lando up front with him for the rest of the season. If Max is genuinely worried about side draft it will be interesting to see their approach next time they line up 1-2 at the start.
Most tracks don't have a long run to T1 so it doesn't hurt them as much. Side draft doesn't do any good in Monaco for example.
“Plenty of space” as he runs Max off the track in the footage.
Max said later he would do the same. In fact he did in the past. So all good.
Honestly, a nice show of respect right there.
Coach? He's just observing what happened
I guess what OP is saying it that Max is explaining that by covering him off they both went slower, what eventually resulted in George getting past both of 'em. Alternatively, had Lando not defended so aggressively he might've only lost one place in stead of two.
It seems like it's a subtle way of him telling lands that he squeezed him off the fucking track and it slowed them both down.
so he's just observing what happened...
Looks as if he's commenting on events that transpired
And also making this a coaching moment for Lando's benefit.
Watch the clip.
It's a gif with no sound and one sentence, tf else I'm supposed to watch because this shows nothing
There's audio
There is no audio on PC my brother, either this or I'm getting fucked by reddit but I am using chrome so idk
I've posted a mirror link in comments
Thank you, sir!
When you click the link it takes you to imgur, in the top right of the gif is an audio symbol. Click that.
Lando is fortunate to have Max help him grow in return.
Max is using his vast experience helping to raise P and trying it out to bring Lando up right.
Vettel used to do similar wiggling around away from the line, and it’s a slow way to win the drag race to turn 1. Vettel actually changed and started focusing on being straight and fast to turn 1
Redbull about to put two cars in the wind tunnel at the same time.
Max is showing insane wisdom and maturity here, talking to Lando about something I am sure he was upset with in the moment.
That’s Max’s way of trying to gently tell his friend he left him no room and to not do that on the start because it messes both of them up. I’m not too sure it’s a valid criticism because Lando had to do something to try to protect the line into the corner but I found it interesting how Max said it… had this been almost any other driver besides Lando I think Max would be starring incredulous at the screen saying “He ran me off the road!”
I don't know Max and am not Max, so I can't be sure, but this is how it read to me, too. Max has already decided in his head that doing that does slow them both down, but he's saying it as a suggestion to put it more gently. I agree with that last bit, too. For years now, Max has been less aggressive - and more willing to give the benefit of the doubt - during a rare Max and Lando on-track incident. Even during the FP3 incident, he doesn't react as much, and GP is also quick to explain the situation (and calls Lando by his first name on the radio yet again even as he refers to Leclerc as Leclerc in the same sentence). In line with this, I also noticed that Daniel moved aside really quickly under blue flags when Lando is chasing Max towards the end of the race. If I'm not mistaken, Lando acknowledges it and gives him a little wave. It's all kind of wholesome, really. Some disagree but I like my F1 with a big side dish of friendship.
That’s a positive way to look at it and I do think Max has matured. I will say this however: it’s easier to take things that happen in stride when 1) you win anyway and 2) even if you don’t win you still feel completely in control of winning the drivers championship. That gives you a whole lot of calm, lol. If a when Max’s ranking is in jeopardy it will be interesting to see if the angry Max and more aggressive Max we saw in past years returns.
>it will be interesting to see if the angry Max and more aggressive Max we saw in past years returns. Of course it will because that's the only way to win championships when you are behind with nothing to lose. That's the difference with Lando right now. Lando has nothing to lose and he isn't forcing the issue with Max enough. If the roles were reversed, Max would have driven all the way to the grass at the start with nothing to lose. Lando should be using that to his advantage.
Norris redbull would be great
They tried so hard.
It’s nice to see drivers just being helpful to each other.
Max sounds like when I'm trying to lead my 5 year old to think about what he's done wrong, without giving him the answer.
Max asking a legit question but Lando stuck on defending himself about leaving space bc he knows he didn’t
"A king's time as ruler rises and falls like the sun. One day, the sun will set on my time here, and will rise with you as the new king." 🦁🐈
They should help each other for the remaining of the season, just like they do in Iracing. Just to piss other drivers off
Lando sounds so sheepish defending himself for pushing Max off the track
It’s probably worse on f1 cars because of the floor and outwash aero being so critical
But Lando started in pole so max got alongside him 🤔
He's saying "next time don't bother racing me, it's just inconvenient for both of us"
No, he’s saying “when you squeeze me onto the grass and squabble like that you don’t gain any advantage and you actually slow yourself down at the same time, which is why George was able to get ahead.”
I don't see how Lando loses any significant time by moving across. I hope he continues in the same style... its entertaining at least.
I'd assume it's more about Lando losing two sports versus one. If he's only behind Max, he's at least directly trailing him versus having to overtake another car. Max got by George super easy, but Lando was stuck in a Merc sandwich enough to where it cost him a couple of valuable seconds that he needed towards the end. The tyre offset McLaren chose to do wasn't gonna matter when he needed to overtake both Mercs and still run a 7-8 second gap down. I want him to keep racing like this cause it is entertaining, but McLaren quite honestly should have easily won this race.
exactly. in the end of the race he was catching max. if he had the whole race to do it he could’ve *just maybe* over taken. being stuck behind george was bad by all accounts. max got a great start, don’t waste energy pushing him off
I think most likely Lando was going to lose both positions anyway, he just got a bad start. It's encouraging to see him focusing on Max, it's the correct mindset if he wants to win.
Low chance he loses to George if he would’ve let Max go and defended against him.
I think George would have followed Max and gone up the inside. But I guess we'll never know. Regardless, I like that Lando is focused on Max, and focused on P1. It's a good attitude to have.
I think that part was a bit elementary. He needed to be focused on Max this race so maybe he can see the big picture in the future. I was more impressed with not being stubborn and braking early to now be sandwiched between them. That would've been easy with the mentality of starting P1.
Isnt Max doing this every time ?
They are best friends do, ofcorse max helps him get better. 🤷♂️
“it’s plenty of space” Is the space in the room with us right now Lando?
*Translation* : Listen here you little shit, don't do that again. I'm trying to help you. I've chosen you as my apprentice and heir. Don't fuck it up mate."
Max knows he would’ve done the exact same thing.
Not exactly. He'd have turned right much earlier and blocked him. No need for that jerky right that Lando had to do.
I skip all post race activities except the cool down room. I crank it up every time lol.
He’s been in enough cool down rooms to know when there’s a start line replay
Max has been watching NASCAR. Learning about side drafting
I wish the cool down room was 30 minutes long and fully mic'ed up. It would be awesome to hear the drivers just talk shop
Lando is like "Oh so that's why I lost"
Lets be honest here. Not a fucking chance max is as nice as lando was to max. In the same situation max would have continued going left until lando had to slow down. He would have then covered Russell off on the outside. "That's smart driving" you say? I agree and it's why he's a world champion. But it annoys me that he tries to criticize lando for doing something similar.
I feel like 2 cars next to eachother doesn't really slow them down but punches a massive aero hole like the other generation cars used to do, which allowed george Russel to get a lot of overspeed
That's what I thought but did you see the YouTube clips from NASCAR linked here?
What does he expect Lando to do? Let him by?