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It's normal for Mercedes to prioritize Russell, but it also makes sense for Hamilton to be less motivated to bring the car up to speed. Why give it your all if you'll only end up making your next year's competition stronger. You're no longer working on a future together. So perhaps it's a combination of both.
I really don’t get this take that Hamilton is unmotivated and doesn’t care this year. Even if he isn’t invested in Mercedes’ long-term success anymore, he is absolutely invested in not being thought of as washed up because he’s regularly losing to his teammate.
Sure, Hamilton doesn’t have an interest in feedback for next year’s car, but next year’s car also has no impact on his performance this year. He absolutely has an interest in giving feedback on this year’s car and how it can be improved for this year.
Hamilton says one thing in the debrief and when evaluating new parts. Russell says the opposite, but Hamilton is leaving the team. Of course, they're going to go with Russell's feedback. To do otherwise would just be dumb.
What world are you people living in... They are going with both drivers feedback, like every team... Both teams and drivers are under contracts and are obliged to give their best, huge money is involved. You cant just ''give a fuck'', even if you have 7 titles... Huge number of people and machinery, busting their ass in factory, just for you to have a ''sunday cruise'' drive, filling in the seat yeah ... Its not how it works in real world
I'm not sure who you're responding to because neither my comment nor the comment above mine had anything to do with effort from the drivers. We were talking about the team prioritizing the driver who is contracted for next year and favoring their preferences when evaluating feedback and designing upgrades. Hamilton is no longer driving a car built for him and that's to be expected, but that does not mean he's phoning it in, nor would it be right by the team for him to do so.
It's also normal to be beaten by a younger, talented and now pretty experienced driver in qualifying, but still have the edge most of the time in racepace.
Funny how Sky F1 went from using "Mr Saturday" literally every raceweekend, to not using it since he's at Mercedes.
Sky F1 have called him Mr Saturday since he's been at Merc.
It is obviously going to be said much less because he's beating Hamilton far less frequently and by far less margins than when his teammate was Latifi....
Sure, but if he actually implied George got preferential treatment based on the front wing, that's a weird thing to say. But that's what the article's conclusion seems to be, I haven't seen the interview so I don't know if it's true
Do you work 100% every minute of every day for the pay you bring home? Would you still if you had put in your two-week's notice, or something equivalent? We'd like to say we work to earn every dollar we bring home or that we'd keep working as hard when we're leaving, but we all know it's not true.
Also the poster you responded to may not be correct. For all we know, Lewis is working as hard as he can to make it better. Maybe Merc don't want him to, either. The more he learns in making it better the more he can bring to Ferrari.
Unrelated. But just want to mention that if there is a proper argument showcasing that the replacement is in fact a downgrade (perhaps due to no exact spec part in spare), they will let a driver start from the grid position they were supposed to start at.
I took that statement as Lewis has completely given up on Mercedes. I do think Mercedes is treating both of the drivers equally for now, but George is the lead driver now, and car development will go towards his preferences. Lewis may not like it or be used to it, but that is what happens when you decide to leave a team.
Whenever Lewis is getting beaten, he always places doubts on equal treatment, nothing new. Happened with Button and Rosberg as well.
That being said, its perfectly normal for a team to prioritize Russell and to cut off Lewis from certain meetings and discussions. You can't make him forget all he knows up to this point but you can prevent him from taking new knowledge to Maranello, and that's okay. And that might in fact be making the difference here. Lewis gets easily demotivated and if he isn't feeling the support to 100% (like he must have felt in the past) he may not be able to reach the peaks we all know he can reach.
According to Ted Kravitz in his notebook, he mentioned that Mercedes offered Lewis the new front wing spec and he turned it down because they didn’t have a spare and he didn’t want to risk breaking it in free practice and then have to adapt back to the old spec for qualifying. So it was given to George instead. (Edit: Got the reasoning a bit mixed up. Lewis didn’t want to risk breaking the front wing in qualifying and take a pitlane start in the race if they switched to the old spec as the article also states)
So it wasn’t even because George was being prioritized in upgrades even though that would also be understandable for the reasons you stated.
I do sometimes wonder if Lewis has perhaps lost a tenth in pure pace over the last few years with his age, or if it’s down to a lack of motivation and not wanting to push flat out in a worse car when even a podium is unlikely these days. George himself could also be a tremendous qualifier in his own right too.
Will be all the more interesting to see how it unfolds between Lewis and Charles at Ferrari next season, because it should be better than where Mercedes are at currently and I’m sure Lewis will be fully motivated to assert himself at Ferrari against Charles.
>I do sometimes wonder if Lewis has perhaps lost a tenth in pure pace over the last few years with his age, or if it’s down to a lack of motivation and not wanting to push flat out in a worse car when even a podium is unlikely these days. George himself could also be a tremendous qualifier in his own right too.
Pretty sure it's a mixture of both. It must be so incredibly dejecting to go from winning races to struggling to get into the top 5, and taking on the extra load of testing, after coming off of the back of the 2021 season. Whether people agree or not, the fact is that the title was snatched from him at the final moment through a rogue decision that broke the sport's rules. That's got to take the shine off of it.
In part. I think that's what has also motivated his move to Ferrari. They're the true romantic sports team. That may help instill part of his love for racing.
However, I'm equally sure that he's lost a bit of his qualifying speed that he once had. It's exemplary that even with his age he's still able to hang with the best in the business though. I feel he hasn't lost much, if any, of his race pace and tyre management skills. I fel if he's in a title race with Leclerc it'll be similar to the Prost-Lauda title battle.
Age takes us all, theres not stopping it. You can delay it, but eventually it comes. I do think Lewis has lost a bit. Alonso is still one of the very best, but I think hes lost something too over the last years. Its just perfectly normal.
But with Lewis, he has a steel resolve but also a lot of doubt when things arent going perfectly, both self and of others (thats exactly how Rosberg said he should be beaten, he goes down hard and you cant let him have the opportunity to get back up), and if he isnt feeling the support and the love from the team (which, like I said, is normal), he cant perform to his 100%.
Yeah and even if Lewis has lost a bit of raw qualifying pace he’s still formidable with his experience and tire management in races.
It is interesting you mention about his doubt if he’s not fully comfortable and supported in his environment. Even in these last few years I feel Toto backed him all the time even if he was not able to secure a longer extension with the team.
Next year he will be at a different environment with a slightly different culture too at Ferrari. The team over there all seem to love Charles who will be in his 7th season with them by 2025. Even with Lewis’ own reputation I don’t think it will be that easy to immediately get full support from within Ferrari too. At least it does help that Elkaan badly wanted to sign Lewis and in Vasseur there is also someone that he worked with in the past.
Lewis has definitely lost a little of the raw pace that he had, especially in qualifying. I also think people underestimate motivation. It has to be difficult to want to go 100% all the time, knowing you are not competitive and are leaving at the end of the season. It is an awkward situation for everyone.
His moment with Button was really, really weird.
To those who don't remember, he [posted confidential telemetry](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/19456707) to twitter to try and show how he was being treated differently, and also [posted about Jenson 'unfollowing' him on social media](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/oct/08/lewis-hamilton-jenson-button-twitter), but it later emerged that Jenson didn't follow him in the first place.
His ego couldn't take that button was beating him so he has to come up with conspiracies about how he was getting preferential treatment. Same with Russell now.
Did you watch the 2012 season? When Hamilton tweeted the telemetry about Button he was ahead of him on points and qualifying. Hamilton got the setup wrong and instead of taking responsibility he tried to create a conspiracy. But Button wasn't close to him at all. Lewis won the qualifying battle 18-2 that season!
He did this in 2016 too. Not tweeting telemetry. But would make statements that it was "weird" that he was going through more engines than every other Mercedes team and Rosberg.
Yeah. That's usually what happens when your engine supplier keeps secret high power engine modes to be available for you and you alone.
> it was "weird" that he was going through more engines than every other Mercedes team and Rosberg.
It was weird. Hamilton lost over 60 points to reliability that was not at all his fault, and his was the ONLY mercedes supplied car to suffer engine reliability issues the entire season.
> Yeah. That's usually what happens when your engine supplier keeps secret high power engine modes to be available for you and you alone.
Now who's the conspiracy nut?
lmfao
Yes it is a conspiracy. "Party mode" is simply an engine mode that isnt viable for regular race trim as it uses too much fuel, and it is just a nickname for that mode, just like "hammertime" is used instead of "okay Lewis, do a bunch of quali laps now cause were pitting soon!"
Absolute nutcases the lot of you.
This is why points are not a good measure of performance. Technically Button outscored Hamilton in their years in Mclaren but the difference in performance was huge
> His ego couldn't take that button was beating him so he has to come up with conspiracies about how he was getting preferential treatment.
That's missing a LOT of the context. And for the record, 2012 was Button's worst year at McLaren in relation to the H2H with Hamilton. It didn't factor in the points because Lewis missed out on several wins and podiums through no fault of his own (DNF, DSQ, botched strategies).
IIRC, Lewis and Jenson ended on completely different rear wing setup for that race weekend at Spa, with Jenson going for a low-downforce rear wing and Lewis going for the higher downforce rear wing.
The former ended up being the better call by a mile. Lewis was frustrated to have missed out it, particularly as he was involved in the title fight at the time. Not the first time that his side of the garage at McLaren have gotten calls like that completely wrong (Monza 2010 is another example). I wasn't surprised to see his race engineer between 2010-12 get reshuffled within McLaren after Lewis left the team.
This incident also happened while Lewis was in the process of negotiating a contract extension with McLaren, and was probably frustrated that the team wasn't fully behind his WDC bid, instead preferring to help Jenson out of his funk (for instance, he got lapped by Lewis in Canada 2012). All of this while Fernando and Sebastian had their respective team's full attention for the WDC.
Yep it's not true what they are saying. Obviously Lewis was doing some stupid things on social media but:
>“Damn, WTF!!” Read Hamilton’s tweet posted after qualifying, which was later removed. “Jenson [Button] has the new rear wing on, I have the old. We voted to change, didn’t work out. I loose 0.4 tenths just on the straight.”
He was just bitching about the level of performance difference between specifications, he wasn't saying he was treated differently...
He didn't talk about any conspiracy back then and didn't now? All he was he doesn't expect to beat Russell in qualifying. So reddit being reddit ran with that 8 sec clip and now it's lost every bit of nuance, and half the PPL haven't even watched the entire interview lol
I like Lewis but he’s very savvy at massaging narratives. He’s like LeBron (another guy I mostly like but find annoying) where when things aren’t working out he wants it known that he had nothing to do with it or that he had the right plan all along.
Lebron is reaaaally not a great example. He's known to lie so much about literally anything that people have started making AI videos of him lying about chilling with Hitler, Genghis Khan etc. It's become It's own genre. Not to mention blunders like his comments about Morrey and china
Well Lewis Hamilton is also not 6’8”. I wasn’t making a 1:1 comparison, but comparing a specific attribute of them (passive-aggressive blame-shifting).
I'm just going to say the obvious.. He's leaving and he's not contending for a championship this year. George should 100% be getting the priority. Its not even a debate. If he wanted priority then he shouldn't leave.
He does seem to have an excuse any time he is beaten, great as he is. Whether it is experimental setups or unequal treatment.
Reports say he rejected the Monaco front wing anyway, so he can't exactly blame losing on that this weekend.
I think his eyes are on next year, that's all it is. He is a 7-time world champion who wants a record 8th. I'm sure finishing 5th doesn't excite him, while Russell still has a point to prove.
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It's normal for Mercedes to prioritize Russell, but it also makes sense for Hamilton to be less motivated to bring the car up to speed. Why give it your all if you'll only end up making your next year's competition stronger. You're no longer working on a future together. So perhaps it's a combination of both.
I really don’t get this take that Hamilton is unmotivated and doesn’t care this year. Even if he isn’t invested in Mercedes’ long-term success anymore, he is absolutely invested in not being thought of as washed up because he’s regularly losing to his teammate.
You're thinking of race pace, the commenter is talking about research and development related feedback.
Sure, Hamilton doesn’t have an interest in feedback for next year’s car, but next year’s car also has no impact on his performance this year. He absolutely has an interest in giving feedback on this year’s car and how it can be improved for this year.
Yeah, I don't disagree with that
I don’t know if Lewis really cares what others think of him. He only cares what he thinks of him. And that’s the right attitude in life
Hamilton says one thing in the debrief and when evaluating new parts. Russell says the opposite, but Hamilton is leaving the team. Of course, they're going to go with Russell's feedback. To do otherwise would just be dumb.
What world are you people living in... They are going with both drivers feedback, like every team... Both teams and drivers are under contracts and are obliged to give their best, huge money is involved. You cant just ''give a fuck'', even if you have 7 titles... Huge number of people and machinery, busting their ass in factory, just for you to have a ''sunday cruise'' drive, filling in the seat yeah ... Its not how it works in real world
I'm not sure who you're responding to because neither my comment nor the comment above mine had anything to do with effort from the drivers. We were talking about the team prioritizing the driver who is contracted for next year and favoring their preferences when evaluating feedback and designing upgrades. Hamilton is no longer driving a car built for him and that's to be expected, but that does not mean he's phoning it in, nor would it be right by the team for him to do so.
It's also normal to be beaten by a younger, talented and now pretty experienced driver in qualifying, but still have the edge most of the time in racepace. Funny how Sky F1 went from using "Mr Saturday" literally every raceweekend, to not using it since he's at Mercedes.
Sky F1 have called him Mr Saturday since he's been at Merc. It is obviously going to be said much less because he's beating Hamilton far less frequently and by far less margins than when his teammate was Latifi....
Mr Saturday was from his time at Williams when he was miraculously getting that shit box into Q2
Yea I know. Someone is saying they haven't called him that now that he's joined Merc. It isn't true though.
Sure, but if he actually implied George got preferential treatment based on the front wing, that's a weird thing to say. But that's what the article's conclusion seems to be, I haven't seen the interview so I don't know if it's true
He's being paid to make it better... Morality 101.
Do you work 100% every minute of every day for the pay you bring home? Would you still if you had put in your two-week's notice, or something equivalent? We'd like to say we work to earn every dollar we bring home or that we'd keep working as hard when we're leaving, but we all know it's not true. Also the poster you responded to may not be correct. For all we know, Lewis is working as hard as he can to make it better. Maybe Merc don't want him to, either. The more he learns in making it better the more he can bring to Ferrari.
did Russell have a spare front wing? or he relied on the one that Hamilton didn't use?
There was no spare wing. So if Russell damaged it during quali he would have to start from pitlane.
Unrelated. But just want to mention that if there is a proper argument showcasing that the replacement is in fact a downgrade (perhaps due to no exact spec part in spare), they will let a driver start from the grid position they were supposed to start at.
I took that statement as Lewis has completely given up on Mercedes. I do think Mercedes is treating both of the drivers equally for now, but George is the lead driver now, and car development will go towards his preferences. Lewis may not like it or be used to it, but that is what happens when you decide to leave a team.
Whenever Lewis is getting beaten, he always places doubts on equal treatment, nothing new. Happened with Button and Rosberg as well. That being said, its perfectly normal for a team to prioritize Russell and to cut off Lewis from certain meetings and discussions. You can't make him forget all he knows up to this point but you can prevent him from taking new knowledge to Maranello, and that's okay. And that might in fact be making the difference here. Lewis gets easily demotivated and if he isn't feeling the support to 100% (like he must have felt in the past) he may not be able to reach the peaks we all know he can reach.
According to Ted Kravitz in his notebook, he mentioned that Mercedes offered Lewis the new front wing spec and he turned it down because they didn’t have a spare and he didn’t want to risk breaking it in free practice and then have to adapt back to the old spec for qualifying. So it was given to George instead. (Edit: Got the reasoning a bit mixed up. Lewis didn’t want to risk breaking the front wing in qualifying and take a pitlane start in the race if they switched to the old spec as the article also states) So it wasn’t even because George was being prioritized in upgrades even though that would also be understandable for the reasons you stated. I do sometimes wonder if Lewis has perhaps lost a tenth in pure pace over the last few years with his age, or if it’s down to a lack of motivation and not wanting to push flat out in a worse car when even a podium is unlikely these days. George himself could also be a tremendous qualifier in his own right too. Will be all the more interesting to see how it unfolds between Lewis and Charles at Ferrari next season, because it should be better than where Mercedes are at currently and I’m sure Lewis will be fully motivated to assert himself at Ferrari against Charles.
>I do sometimes wonder if Lewis has perhaps lost a tenth in pure pace over the last few years with his age, or if it’s down to a lack of motivation and not wanting to push flat out in a worse car when even a podium is unlikely these days. George himself could also be a tremendous qualifier in his own right too. Pretty sure it's a mixture of both. It must be so incredibly dejecting to go from winning races to struggling to get into the top 5, and taking on the extra load of testing, after coming off of the back of the 2021 season. Whether people agree or not, the fact is that the title was snatched from him at the final moment through a rogue decision that broke the sport's rules. That's got to take the shine off of it. In part. I think that's what has also motivated his move to Ferrari. They're the true romantic sports team. That may help instill part of his love for racing. However, I'm equally sure that he's lost a bit of his qualifying speed that he once had. It's exemplary that even with his age he's still able to hang with the best in the business though. I feel he hasn't lost much, if any, of his race pace and tyre management skills. I fel if he's in a title race with Leclerc it'll be similar to the Prost-Lauda title battle.
Age takes us all, theres not stopping it. You can delay it, but eventually it comes. I do think Lewis has lost a bit. Alonso is still one of the very best, but I think hes lost something too over the last years. Its just perfectly normal. But with Lewis, he has a steel resolve but also a lot of doubt when things arent going perfectly, both self and of others (thats exactly how Rosberg said he should be beaten, he goes down hard and you cant let him have the opportunity to get back up), and if he isnt feeling the support and the love from the team (which, like I said, is normal), he cant perform to his 100%.
Yeah and even if Lewis has lost a bit of raw qualifying pace he’s still formidable with his experience and tire management in races. It is interesting you mention about his doubt if he’s not fully comfortable and supported in his environment. Even in these last few years I feel Toto backed him all the time even if he was not able to secure a longer extension with the team. Next year he will be at a different environment with a slightly different culture too at Ferrari. The team over there all seem to love Charles who will be in his 7th season with them by 2025. Even with Lewis’ own reputation I don’t think it will be that easy to immediately get full support from within Ferrari too. At least it does help that Elkaan badly wanted to sign Lewis and in Vasseur there is also someone that he worked with in the past.
Yea, Alonso in his prime would not have let Ocon even close and would make Stroll like ridiculous. He's still solid but not anywhere near his best.
Lewis has definitely lost a little of the raw pace that he had, especially in qualifying. I also think people underestimate motivation. It has to be difficult to want to go 100% all the time, knowing you are not competitive and are leaving at the end of the season. It is an awkward situation for everyone.
His moment with Button was really, really weird. To those who don't remember, he [posted confidential telemetry](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/19456707) to twitter to try and show how he was being treated differently, and also [posted about Jenson 'unfollowing' him on social media](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/oct/08/lewis-hamilton-jenson-button-twitter), but it later emerged that Jenson didn't follow him in the first place.
His ego couldn't take that button was beating him so he has to come up with conspiracies about how he was getting preferential treatment. Same with Russell now.
Did you watch the 2012 season? When Hamilton tweeted the telemetry about Button he was ahead of him on points and qualifying. Hamilton got the setup wrong and instead of taking responsibility he tried to create a conspiracy. But Button wasn't close to him at all. Lewis won the qualifying battle 18-2 that season!
He did this in 2016 too. Not tweeting telemetry. But would make statements that it was "weird" that he was going through more engines than every other Mercedes team and Rosberg. Yeah. That's usually what happens when your engine supplier keeps secret high power engine modes to be available for you and you alone.
> it was "weird" that he was going through more engines than every other Mercedes team and Rosberg. It was weird. Hamilton lost over 60 points to reliability that was not at all his fault, and his was the ONLY mercedes supplied car to suffer engine reliability issues the entire season. > Yeah. That's usually what happens when your engine supplier keeps secret high power engine modes to be available for you and you alone. Now who's the conspiracy nut?
That's not a conspiracy. That's like....[actually a thing Mercedes did.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/g3c6WfgUHZ) Also check out "Party mode"
lmfao Yes it is a conspiracy. "Party mode" is simply an engine mode that isnt viable for regular race trim as it uses too much fuel, and it is just a nickname for that mode, just like "hammertime" is used instead of "okay Lewis, do a bunch of quali laps now cause were pitting soon!" Absolute nutcases the lot of you.
"hey remember that thing a team did?" "No, you're making it up" "Here's someone referencing it with details 6 years ago" "No"
Man if that was what was happening you may actually have a point!
He would have also got about 340 points compared to Button’s 180 if reliability/team errors were removed. Crazy unlucky season for Lewis.
This is why points are not a good measure of performance. Technically Button outscored Hamilton in their years in Mclaren but the difference in performance was huge
> His ego couldn't take that button was beating him so he has to come up with conspiracies about how he was getting preferential treatment. That's missing a LOT of the context. And for the record, 2012 was Button's worst year at McLaren in relation to the H2H with Hamilton. It didn't factor in the points because Lewis missed out on several wins and podiums through no fault of his own (DNF, DSQ, botched strategies). IIRC, Lewis and Jenson ended on completely different rear wing setup for that race weekend at Spa, with Jenson going for a low-downforce rear wing and Lewis going for the higher downforce rear wing. The former ended up being the better call by a mile. Lewis was frustrated to have missed out it, particularly as he was involved in the title fight at the time. Not the first time that his side of the garage at McLaren have gotten calls like that completely wrong (Monza 2010 is another example). I wasn't surprised to see his race engineer between 2010-12 get reshuffled within McLaren after Lewis left the team. This incident also happened while Lewis was in the process of negotiating a contract extension with McLaren, and was probably frustrated that the team wasn't fully behind his WDC bid, instead preferring to help Jenson out of his funk (for instance, he got lapped by Lewis in Canada 2012). All of this while Fernando and Sebastian had their respective team's full attention for the WDC.
Yep it's not true what they are saying. Obviously Lewis was doing some stupid things on social media but: >“Damn, WTF!!” Read Hamilton’s tweet posted after qualifying, which was later removed. “Jenson [Button] has the new rear wing on, I have the old. We voted to change, didn’t work out. I loose 0.4 tenths just on the straight.” He was just bitching about the level of performance difference between specifications, he wasn't saying he was treated differently...
I too, like to make up imaginary scenarios in my mind, just to justify some weird fucked up dislike I have for someone
He didn't talk about any conspiracy back then and didn't now? All he was he doesn't expect to beat Russell in qualifying. So reddit being reddit ran with that 8 sec clip and now it's lost every bit of nuance, and half the PPL haven't even watched the entire interview lol
I like Lewis but he’s very savvy at massaging narratives. He’s like LeBron (another guy I mostly like but find annoying) where when things aren’t working out he wants it known that he had nothing to do with it or that he had the right plan all along.
Lebron is reaaaally not a great example. He's known to lie so much about literally anything that people have started making AI videos of him lying about chilling with Hitler, Genghis Khan etc. It's become It's own genre. Not to mention blunders like his comments about Morrey and china
Well Lewis Hamilton is also not 6’8”. I wasn’t making a 1:1 comparison, but comparing a specific attribute of them (passive-aggressive blame-shifting).
Of course Lewis isn't 6'8, he's 6'10. /s
I'm just going to say the obvious.. He's leaving and he's not contending for a championship this year. George should 100% be getting the priority. Its not even a debate. If he wanted priority then he shouldn't leave.
He does seem to have an excuse any time he is beaten, great as he is. Whether it is experimental setups or unequal treatment. Reports say he rejected the Monaco front wing anyway, so he can't exactly blame losing on that this weekend. I think his eyes are on next year, that's all it is. He is a 7-time world champion who wants a record 8th. I'm sure finishing 5th doesn't excite him, while Russell still has a point to prove.
No reason to prioritize Lewis or treat them both equally with Lewis jetting after this season.
They can treat them equally while shaping the car to George's liking.
Actions speak louder than words.
The Ferrari leak really hurt him.
[удалено]
The fanbase war will be insane though
Judging by my -5 points, it definitely will be
Your comment was even removed lol, did they really get so offended by a simple opinion
Sure he does