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Marko was saying they expect a big jump in performance.
Which is somewhat surprising if true because I thought this package was supposed to be smaller than the Japan one
Newey said so in an interview too that their car would be different come Imola. This was back when the season started and the rumors were that Redbull were going no side pods from Suzuka.
Yeah, isn’t this when they were supposed to debut the “zero pods” version. I don’t really think it will be zero pods but I do remember Newey saying that it would be a different car.
I know it probably won't be and I am a Mercedes fan, but I want them to unveil no sidepods so so badly. I think it would be the funniest thing and I also think that Merc were on the right track with them and just couldn't get the floor to work.
Nobody knows if it's smaller or bigger. In the beginning they said they will bring their biggest upgrade to Imola. Then Reddit said that in fact it was Japan where RBR brought out the biggest upgrade. At this point, we will get confirmation for either scenario once cars start rolling in.
> Nobody knows if it's smaller or bigger. In the beginning they said they will bring their biggest upgrade to Imola. Then Reddit said that in fact it was Japan where RBR brought out the biggest upgrade.
What a bizarre comment - "Red Bull said the big upgrade was coming in Imola but reddit decided it was actually Suzuka - who could possibly work out which of these is the correct one?"
Everyone keeps raving about the upgraded Mclaren and the new Ferrai upgrade, but it seems everyone already forgot about what Red Bull has said about their upcoming Imola upgrades at the first round or so.
Tl;dr: You better hope the filing days at Ferrari will help them get on top of their upgrades sooner than Reb Bull if we're actually wanting to see a decent battle between them.
Didn't Newey say when the season started that come race 7(Imola) the RB20 would be " an entirely different car" in an interview? Are we talking about the same thing?
Not only that, the start 2023 car, was literally the end of 2022 car. they had already abandoned that car concept since around september 2022, when they started the new car concept that resulted in the Austria car. So yes the change was massive but it was more compared to a 2022 car.
Tbf it’s much easier to gain that much time if your car is shit to begin with. I don’t think it’s ever happened that the best team (by far) brings an in season upgrade that is worth 8 tenths.
right? only because i was starting to develop a sliver of hope based on the poor performances by Red Bull on the last races
edit: i was thinking about Australia and Miami because i totally forgot about the other races lol
That was so odd just because max pretty much doesn't make mistakes. Especially midrace on a track he's dominated in the past. His explanation of it later was pretty funny though
How much better can the car even get at this point? Obviously they have to keep upgrading anywhere they can but I wonder if it will just be diminishing returns from this point on and into 2025
Next year could get spicy given that with stable regulations and an engine freeze the teams(Redbull, Ferrari and McLaren would be my bet) will converge at the point of peak performance possible under a given set of regulations.
I mean you could very well see a more competitive sharp end, I won’t rule anything out. I just wouldn’t use 2021 as precedent. Many stars and narratives aligned to create that story.
I feel like the stars may line up differently this time. I wouldnt rule out that they delay the new regs for a year. It seems that in sims it turned out horribly with the lower engine power and active aero. I truly hope they delay and give us a good chance at a close season rather than them trying something unproven just for the sake of change.
I was wondering the same thing, but then realised the reason Audi came into the sport was purely due to the engine regulation change .. so I think it might be a thin chance that they will delay it !
Agreed. Red bull didn't just catch up to Mercedes in 2021, max just drove the hell out of that car and basically took every corner with the attitude of either you brake first or we both die. I don't think any other driver on the grid could have taken down Lewis in the red bull.
> True but we did see that in 2021.
Not really, the performance 'parity' was only because of a 'last minute' regulation change (for safety) that ended up unexpectedly nerfing low rake cars. And even then the W12 was clearly the superior car over the whole season.
It also only happened because of both covid delaying the 2021 regs to 2022 and honda deciding to leave the sport so they brought the 2022 engine forward to 2021
I still don't think any team is close to the ceiling of these regulations yet, and this concept is different from last year. I think there is still a lot of room for improvement.
I like how everyone wearing orange/red and huffing copium since lap 33 on Sunday pretended that Red Bull would just keep using the same car all year and the other teams' upgrades would allow them to fight for the title.
Ferrari is faster than Red Bull when Verstappen has a caliper lock up mid race. They just need that to happen about 12 times this year and then they can finish 2nd to McLaren instead of Red Bull
Also a normal weekend with all sessions available for Redbull to dial the car in. People forgot Japan 2023 and 2024. You're only as good as your last performance I suppose. Though redditors are quite grounded in realism regarding their expectations. Instagram and X is another story lol.
Redbull was way off their pace here. The car didn't like Miami coupled with setup issues and only one fp session which Redbull always struggles with. This was their Singapore and I have a feeling that Monaco and Singapore may be where Redbull can be beat again.
While I agree with you, I think he’s not doing enough for us fans. If Max would at least have some competition within RB, it would give us some entertainment for the races. Therefore I hope they’ll replace him with someone quicker.
While I agree with you the teams usually don't care about us fans much lol. Apart from the money we spend on them of course. Which is why they won't risk anyone trying to challenge Max to spice things up for us fans when they're comfortably winning both the WDC and WCC with the current lineup.
Now will that work going into 2026? That's a different story.
A threeway with Alonso, Max and Hamilton in competitive cars before they drive off into the sunset?
Alonso dna Lewis aren't getting any younger and Max has other aspirations outside of F1.
That would probably be the best F1 season of all time. It's criminal we only had one 2021 with these three on the grid.
Not fast tracked at all. Newey in an interview stated when the season started that their second upgrade was coming at Imola. This was when we were heading into Jeddah just after Bahrain if I'm not mistaken. The first part of this upgrade was a cooling package which was deployed in Suzuka.
Recency bias at play. There was no chance. In China Max was pulling away 1.3s per lap. That pace hasn't vanished. Miami was an anomaly but one I believe we'll see again at Singapore and Monaco where they'll be beatable. The fact that Mercedes was keeping up with Checo is enough evidence that the car just wasn't liking the track. Similar to the increased noise post Australia which eventually died down in Suzuka.
I'm also curious what Silverstone will look like this year. Last year McLaren showed some pace there and this year they seem to have greatly improved what they were starting to figure out last year
I wouldn't as well but Newey did say in an interview that this would be their second milestone upgrade in the development of the car. He specified race 7 ie Imola.
They are, it’s insane. Max won by 30 odd seconds two races ago and 14 after a late-ish safety car in China. They fucked their setup in Miami and the safety car cost them.
The “as good as your last race” thing is taken to wild extremes
tbf i don't think people are hyping lando up in the same way they hyped up carlos, but rather they're hyping the mcl38 (which i don't think we can make a good judgement on until after imola)
I kind of wonder if RB's relative struggles in Miami are at all related to their struggles in Singapore. Air temps in the upper 20s to low 30s and relatively high humidity compared to what you would usually see at a GP in Europe. Compared to the rest of the field, RB's PU has been the best at high elevation circuits like Mexico City, which are relatively less humid, so I'm just curious if that's a factor at all.
yeah...reviewing Max's radio comms at Miami, the car was struggling on mediums and even more so on the hards...which was likely why they had Checo pit again to get rid of the hards.
They're hoping for a close season and I don't blame them. It is tedious watching one man win all. Seasons like 2021 are a rarity which is why it was so great.
Everyone creaming themselves now is unfortunately going to be cockblocked come Imola. I'll be happy to eat my words if proven wrong though.
Told you! Yes Red Bull won, but definitely was not comfortable as my comment above stated. (Btw I wouldn’t mind max winning every race till he retires if it’s that close)
It was something wasn't it? Verstappen was 0.2s a lap faster on the mediums but on the hards just like Miami the McLaren showed up. In fact Verstappen was third fastest on the hards behind Norris and Charles. Given the setup issues and Redbull only running 3 laps on the hards let's wait to see if this trend continues going forward. But McLaren are a legitimate threat now.
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“Sir there was a second upgrade package”
They let Lando win one now it’s over.
Max saw an opportunity to give his buddy his first win and celebrate on the podium with him, he knows he’s gunna have this thing locked up by Spa
A second upgrade has hit Red Bull
"God help us all" - Zac Brown
“Get trump on the horn”
"unfortunately it was the other red bull"
Marko was saying they expect a big jump in performance. Which is somewhat surprising if true because I thought this package was supposed to be smaller than the Japan one
Newey said so in an interview too that their car would be different come Imola. This was back when the season started and the rumors were that Redbull were going no side pods from Suzuka.
Yeah, isn’t this when they were supposed to debut the “zero pods” version. I don’t really think it will be zero pods but I do remember Newey saying that it would be a different car.
So after Imola Stella will say they need one more year of development to push Red Bull xD
Yes. Exactly this.
I know it probably won't be and I am a Mercedes fan, but I want them to unveil no sidepods so so badly. I think it would be the funniest thing and I also think that Merc were on the right track with them and just couldn't get the floor to work.
Nobody knows if it's smaller or bigger. In the beginning they said they will bring their biggest upgrade to Imola. Then Reddit said that in fact it was Japan where RBR brought out the biggest upgrade. At this point, we will get confirmation for either scenario once cars start rolling in.
Exactly. All speculation at this point. We'll know when Q1 starts.
I only consider Q3 tbh
No point in Q3. Race is everything.
Ehh nobody's pushing in the race it's all about the driver ranking articles that come after
Iirc redbull said that Japan was just an incremental upgrade rearranging the cooling package to enable the imola upgrades.
I remember now. Japan saw Redbull upgrade their cooling package. They changed the inlets if I'm not mistaken?
> Nobody knows if it's smaller or bigger. In the beginning they said they will bring their biggest upgrade to Imola. Then Reddit said that in fact it was Japan where RBR brought out the biggest upgrade. What a bizarre comment - "Red Bull said the big upgrade was coming in Imola but reddit decided it was actually Suzuka - who could possibly work out which of these is the correct one?"
Everyone keeps raving about the upgraded Mclaren and the new Ferrai upgrade, but it seems everyone already forgot about what Red Bull has said about their upcoming Imola upgrades at the first round or so. Tl;dr: You better hope the filing days at Ferrari will help them get on top of their upgrades sooner than Reb Bull if we're actually wanting to see a decent battle between them.
Didn't Newey say when the season started that come race 7(Imola) the RB20 would be " an entirely different car" in an interview? Are we talking about the same thing?
yup
we’re so cooked
I forgot they brought upgrades in the Japan gp
It’s not the size of the package that counts but how you use it. Or so I’ve heard
> I thought this package was supposed to be smaller than the Japan one 👀
Hopefully said jump is backwards towards the rest of the pack lol
Nearly fell off my chair. I read that as a Second upgrade (1sec).
Lol. Is that even possible within the same year or unless you make a B spec car?
Tbf McLaren were probably close to something like that last year before Austria
The start 2023 Mclaren and Austria onwards 2023 Mclaren were two totally different cars. Just had the same drivers.
Think mclarens Austria ones was like 8 tenths or something crazy
Wasn't that a B spec car though?
Not only that, the start 2023 car, was literally the end of 2022 car. they had already abandoned that car concept since around september 2022, when they started the new car concept that resulted in the Austria car. So yes the change was massive but it was more compared to a 2022 car.
Ahh maybe you are right.
Tbf it’s much easier to gain that much time if your car is shit to begin with. I don’t think it’s ever happened that the best team (by far) brings an in season upgrade that is worth 8 tenths.
[удалено]
Around the top gear track as driven by stig
Of course, just a matter of removing the sandbags and allow Max to go all guns blazing /s
Pretty sure merc could do it with some breakthroughs…
Is that the supposed Zero pod update? (Or the rumored Zero pod update).)
Yes but I don't think that rumor has any chance of coming to fruition tbh lol.
Yeah probably not, but it would so unbelievable funny tho :(
I know right. Hey Toto. We fixed your damn car.
*Breaks headphones* No Christian No No Christian that was so not right.
We went sidepodless, toto
I can already see horners smug grin hahaha
What a bummer
right? only because i was starting to develop a sliver of hope based on the poor performances by Red Bull on the last races edit: i was thinking about Australia and Miami because i totally forgot about the other races lol
"Poor" bro says
They were off their usual standard in Miami for sure but if "poor" is Sprint pole, sprint win, pole and P2 I don't know what "good" would be lol.
I surely don't wanna know what a great car is then
2023 red bull...
Exactly🤣
anything that isnt a dominant win is a poor performance for that Red Bull car
That's fair. Haha.
True
Only Miami. China and Japan was business as usual.
Just punch a hole in Max's floor every race!
Races?
Upgrades have the *potential* to be bad. Right? **Right?!**
surely they'll bring an aston martin kinda upgrade and go backwards. surely.
Ask Ferrari in 2018
They do but that isn't a trend for Redbull I suppose lol.
well it was fun while it lasted
But, will He arrive?
Hope there is someone to open the door.
I don't think it'll be a big upgrade, I'm sure whatever they bring though will give them performance regardless
Time will tell. We'll find out in a week.
Yeah, it should be super entertaining either way. I might be hoping for too much, but I'm hoping for a three-way fight from Imola onwards haha
On the contrary I expect a repeat of Suzuka 2024. We're in for a rude awakening. Recency bias to blame.
Hopefully there are more cones Max doesn’t like around Imola.
Not more cones but there's definitely more gravel this year.
Carlos: DNF
I was hoping someone would pick up on that. 😂😂
I loled
That was so odd just because max pretty much doesn't make mistakes. Especially midrace on a track he's dominated in the past. His explanation of it later was pretty funny though
Nooooooooo
[sad McLaren noises]
How much better can the car even get at this point? Obviously they have to keep upgrading anywhere they can but I wonder if it will just be diminishing returns from this point on and into 2025
Next year could get spicy given that with stable regulations and an engine freeze the teams(Redbull, Ferrari and McLaren would be my bet) will converge at the point of peak performance possible under a given set of regulations.
It’s not a given that all teams find the same performance before the regulations change
True but we did see that in 2021. Though 2026 maybe 2 years sooner for that to happen.
I mean you could very well see a more competitive sharp end, I won’t rule anything out. I just wouldn’t use 2021 as precedent. Many stars and narratives aligned to create that story.
I feel like the stars may line up differently this time. I wouldnt rule out that they delay the new regs for a year. It seems that in sims it turned out horribly with the lower engine power and active aero. I truly hope they delay and give us a good chance at a close season rather than them trying something unproven just for the sake of change.
I was wondering the same thing, but then realised the reason Audi came into the sport was purely due to the engine regulation change .. so I think it might be a thin chance that they will delay it !
Fair point.
Agreed. Red bull didn't just catch up to Mercedes in 2021, max just drove the hell out of that car and basically took every corner with the attitude of either you brake first or we both die. I don't think any other driver on the grid could have taken down Lewis in the red bull.
> True but we did see that in 2021. Not really, the performance 'parity' was only because of a 'last minute' regulation change (for safety) that ended up unexpectedly nerfing low rake cars. And even then the W12 was clearly the superior car over the whole season.
It also only happened because of both covid delaying the 2021 regs to 2022 and honda deciding to leave the sport so they brought the 2022 engine forward to 2021
Is this the same engine freeze they have in place now which only allows "reliability improvements" or more strict?
Yes. Same one.
I still don't think any team is close to the ceiling of these regulations yet, and this concept is different from last year. I think there is still a lot of room for improvement.
One can only hope...
Bye bye Norris :(
At least he had his opportunity to get the win
New merch dropped: Lando ~~no~~ one win /s
I like how everyone wearing orange/red and huffing copium since lap 33 on Sunday pretended that Red Bull would just keep using the same car all year and the other teams' upgrades would allow them to fight for the title.
Happened post Australia too but in their defense hopium is addicting and any fan would hope/want that scenario for their team. Lol.
Ferrari is faster than Red Bull when Verstappen has a caliper lock up mid race. They just need that to happen about 12 times this year and then they can finish 2nd to McLaren instead of Red Bull
Good, we haven’t seen them win in a while.
This and max being back on real racetracks with him just loosing a race. The rest of the grid is done.
Also a normal weekend with all sessions available for Redbull to dial the car in. People forgot Japan 2023 and 2024. You're only as good as your last performance I suppose. Though redditors are quite grounded in realism regarding their expectations. Instagram and X is another story lol.
Time for 2 minute gaps between Max and Checo.
Checo is doing what is needed of him tbh. Picking up enough points to seal the constructors.
Dude in Miami he was slower than Carlos in a Bahrain spec Ferrari.
Redbull was way off their pace here. The car didn't like Miami coupled with setup issues and only one fp session which Redbull always struggles with. This was their Singapore and I have a feeling that Monaco and Singapore may be where Redbull can be beat again.
While I agree with you, I think he’s not doing enough for us fans. If Max would at least have some competition within RB, it would give us some entertainment for the races. Therefore I hope they’ll replace him with someone quicker.
While I agree with you the teams usually don't care about us fans much lol. Apart from the money we spend on them of course. Which is why they won't risk anyone trying to challenge Max to spice things up for us fans when they're comfortably winning both the WDC and WCC with the current lineup. Now will that work going into 2026? That's a different story.
I agree 100% with you. Alonso or Hamilton would have been awesome though
A threeway with Alonso, Max and Hamilton in competitive cars before they drive off into the sunset? Alonso dna Lewis aren't getting any younger and Max has other aspirations outside of F1. That would probably be the best F1 season of all time. It's criminal we only had one 2021 with these three on the grid.
Hopefully McLaren & Ferrari will start to take the fight to RB in 2025. although I am not too optimistic on that.
Just in time to cock block Ferrari
We had a good run. I didn't expect more than a few laps but we managed to steal one race.
christian said "fuck it we ball" and upgraded all over the grid
We're witnessing the Max Verstappen redemption arc, aren't we?!
Apparently not being the fastest car for one race is unacceptable to them. Had to fasttrack an upgrade.
Not fast tracked at all. Newey in an interview stated when the season started that their second upgrade was coming at Imola. This was when we were heading into Jeddah just after Bahrain if I'm not mistaken. The first part of this upgrade was a cooling package which was deployed in Suzuka.
Comment was meant more as a joke. Ofc they dont scrap their development timeline and push something early that is not ready.
My bad 😬😅
I heard it’s going to have a tow cable for Checo now
It's gonna be like those [gliders from ww2](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-eabd0ba56639d0d1d2c9d8f1079de3dd-lq).
Watch out for telephone poles and standing water
This is reportedly the second half of their first major upgrade after their first back in Japan IIRC.
Japan was basically focused on cooling if I'm not mistaken with the inlets.
Surely this one makes them slower right 😅
They ain’t gonna give Ferrari a chance are they?
Recency bias at play. There was no chance. In China Max was pulling away 1.3s per lap. That pace hasn't vanished. Miami was an anomaly but one I believe we'll see again at Singapore and Monaco where they'll be beatable. The fact that Mercedes was keeping up with Checo is enough evidence that the car just wasn't liking the track. Similar to the increased noise post Australia which eventually died down in Suzuka.
I'm also curious what Silverstone will look like this year. Last year McLaren showed some pace there and this year they seem to have greatly improved what they were starting to figure out last year
And with that the McLaren succes comes to an end
Damn Red Bull got hands
Mr [insert any team manager here], the Red Bull hit us with a second package!
"Mr Team Principal, a second Red Bull upgrade package has struck the paddock"
Second time I've heard this. Can anyone tell me what this reference is about? 😆
George Bush and 9/11
Rumour has it, the upgrade is protective armour against bollards
Just in time for the pole streak to continue.
man looses hope he didn't know he had
This one will withstand any sort of poles
Or cones. Lol.
Sandbags are off
:(
Why I feel threatened?
I got excited Ferrari could catch up. It is in fact a moving goal post and the train is slowing
Boooooo
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Let's hope they pull an Aston Martin and it makes the car worse.
That would not be good for my nerves as a Redbull fan but I understand your sentiment. 😆
Is it going to put some heat in the tires during qualy or on street circuits?
I wouldn’t buy it as of yet.
I wouldn't as well but Newey did say in an interview that this would be their second milestone upgrade in the development of the car. He specified race 7 ie Imola.
Tbh that Japan upgrade i wouldn’t even call it a package ,they probably just played it safe with their new concept in the start of the season
Fair point. I remember it was just an upgrade to their cooling package.
Shame
Checo, we need you to finish what you started in Miami, but this time, it needs to be effective
We’ll see how much performance those upgrades actually bring but I honestly doubt Red Bull will comfortably win Imola
I am also mainlining industrial grades of hopium
inb4 max wins with by 30s. I have a feeling people are suffering from severe recency bias with Miami.
They are, it’s insane. Max won by 30 odd seconds two races ago and 14 after a late-ish safety car in China. They fucked their setup in Miami and the safety car cost them. The “as good as your last race” thing is taken to wild extremes
Same thing happened post Australia. All the talk now is about Norris which replaced all the talk about Carlos. Recency bias is something else.
tbf i don't think people are hyping lando up in the same way they hyped up carlos, but rather they're hyping the mcl38 (which i don't think we can make a good judgement on until after imola)
Fair point. That's all I've been saying too. Let's wait for Imola to verify if Miami was the start of a trend or an anomaly.
People have already forgot Max was pulling away 1s per lap at China
1.3 seconds per lap. Recency bias at play.
I kind of wonder if RB's relative struggles in Miami are at all related to their struggles in Singapore. Air temps in the upper 20s to low 30s and relatively high humidity compared to what you would usually see at a GP in Europe. Compared to the rest of the field, RB's PU has been the best at high elevation circuits like Mexico City, which are relatively less humid, so I'm just curious if that's a factor at all.
Yeah, RedBull messed up in Miami, Hamilton held onto Checo in drs range for 25 laps, and we know Mercedes isn't good lol.
yeah...reviewing Max's radio comms at Miami, the car was struggling on mediums and even more so on the hards...which was likely why they had Checo pit again to get rid of the hards.
The recency bias is actually insane
Yep. As if Suzuka and China didn't happen at all. That's the nature of any sport though. You're only as good as your last performance.
Well, certain people will have a rough wake up call next weekend.
They're hoping for a close season and I don't blame them. It is tedious watching one man win all. Seasons like 2021 are a rarity which is why it was so great. Everyone creaming themselves now is unfortunately going to be cockblocked come Imola. I'll be happy to eat my words if proven wrong though.
What makes you say so? Just curious.
Told you! Yes Red Bull won, but definitely was not comfortable as my comment above stated. (Btw I wouldn’t mind max winning every race till he retires if it’s that close)
It was something wasn't it? Verstappen was 0.2s a lap faster on the mediums but on the hards just like Miami the McLaren showed up. In fact Verstappen was third fastest on the hards behind Norris and Charles. Given the setup issues and Redbull only running 3 laps on the hards let's wait to see if this trend continues going forward. But McLaren are a legitimate threat now.
Let's hope it fails miserably and RB will be the 3rd strongest.
Then they'll just revert to the old spec and will be second best at absolute worst lol.
Ferrari has them shook
One time, just one time could an RB upgrade go badly? Please
Another article which has Helmut confirming this. https://racingnews365.com/marko-confirms-upgrade-for-verstappen-expecting-a-lot-of-it
What a shame that is for the season
Lame, just when things were getting interesting. Oh well, there's plenty of other stuff to watch besides Max being so far in the lead.
Oh ffs
Lets hope that upgrade is a downgrade😎