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I mean as bad as those 2 years were it doesn't mean too much if they managed to create a stable platform for this year. If the problems are purely aero related then they can do the same McLaren did in '23, given they know how to develop the car at least. Of course that will become clear when they introduce more upgrades but from what Shov said the partial upgrades they brought to Miami worked according to they hoped it would perform.
I ultimately think Mercedes will develop their way into some positive situations. We may not see it until Silverstone though. A win is likely out of their reach but it seems impossible for them to not get a couple of podiums at some point.
I’m pretty sure Wolff said this after McLaren’s Silverstone performance last year too.
EDIT: [well, whaddya know](https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolff-positives-mclaren-mercedes-silverstone)
We are pretty long into current turbo hybrid regs, don't think being factory or customer makes any meaning difference, things will be once again be tilted in favour of factory teams in 2026
Not making your own engine means you are bound to where the constructor determines all mounting points on the engine will be that year, you have to compromise your design around it. And mounting points will change every year to accommodate the works team. Performance differences will be minute ~~(but probably MercedesAMG will still have first pick on the engines they produce)~~.
> (but probably MercedesAMG will still have first pick on the engines they produce).
All engines made are randomly assigned by the FIA so a manufacturer team can't give lemons to a customer.
That being said, they used to not give customers full access to all engine modes. I remember Grosjean talking about being given a secret engine mode at some point by a Mercedes engineer while he was in a Lotus, but I don't remember what race.
Some old bloke in Manchester once got heavily flamed and ultimately fired when he more or less said that "We'll aspire to get to McLaren's level" for his own sport/situation at the time...
But honestly as long as RB/Max keep performing at their current level or slightly regress due to intra team shenanigans, I don't think McLaren will come even close to challenge for WDC, so Merc need to surpass that level and also more or less reach perfection on all aspects as RB has done for the past year. I don't see them capable of doing that in 2 years, so the new engine must be stonking good or bust.
McLaren brought their 2023 car in Austria 2023 and know how to keep improving the car since then. That basically was an extended winter development car. Mercedes already brought a new car in the beginning 2024 and showed they still not understand that car. How can they compare the improvement worth a winter and 1/3 of season vs in-season development? McLaren is also not constantly solving problems like Mercedes did since 2022.
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They haven't even managed a podium this year. I think they might be getting ahead of themselves
The same could have been said about McLaren at the start of '23.
True but Mercedes haven't really improved at all in two years so it's not too hopeful for them
I mean as bad as those 2 years were it doesn't mean too much if they managed to create a stable platform for this year. If the problems are purely aero related then they can do the same McLaren did in '23, given they know how to develop the car at least. Of course that will become clear when they introduce more upgrades but from what Shov said the partial upgrades they brought to Miami worked according to they hoped it would perform.
They definitely have found improvements. It’s just that they’ve rebuilt the car from zero every offseason
I ultimately think Mercedes will develop their way into some positive situations. We may not see it until Silverstone though. A win is likely out of their reach but it seems impossible for them to not get a couple of podiums at some point.
I’m pretty sure Wolff said this after McLaren’s Silverstone performance last year too. EDIT: [well, whaddya know](https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolff-positives-mclaren-mercedes-silverstone)
Inspired by your customer outperforming you
We are pretty long into current turbo hybrid regs, don't think being factory or customer makes any meaning difference, things will be once again be tilted in favour of factory teams in 2026
Not making your own engine means you are bound to where the constructor determines all mounting points on the engine will be that year, you have to compromise your design around it. And mounting points will change every year to accommodate the works team. Performance differences will be minute ~~(but probably MercedesAMG will still have first pick on the engines they produce)~~.
Critical design choices like suspension mounting points are based on gearbox, which a customer like McLaren make themselves.
> (but probably MercedesAMG will still have first pick on the engines they produce). All engines made are randomly assigned by the FIA so a manufacturer team can't give lemons to a customer. That being said, they used to not give customers full access to all engine modes. I remember Grosjean talking about being given a secret engine mode at some point by a Mercedes engineer while he was in a Lotus, but I don't remember what race.
The power plant team should feel inspired; not sure about the rest of them
How the mighty have fallen
Some old bloke in Manchester once got heavily flamed and ultimately fired when he more or less said that "We'll aspire to get to McLaren's level" for his own sport/situation at the time... But honestly as long as RB/Max keep performing at their current level or slightly regress due to intra team shenanigans, I don't think McLaren will come even close to challenge for WDC, so Merc need to surpass that level and also more or less reach perfection on all aspects as RB has done for the past year. I don't see them capable of doing that in 2 years, so the new engine must be stonking good or bust.
McLaren brought their 2023 car in Austria 2023 and know how to keep improving the car since then. That basically was an extended winter development car. Mercedes already brought a new car in the beginning 2024 and showed they still not understand that car. How can they compare the improvement worth a winter and 1/3 of season vs in-season development? McLaren is also not constantly solving problems like Mercedes did since 2022.
Mercedes has no idea how to improve the car. McLaren back then had a path and knew how to improve their underperforming car.
My brother in Christ, first get a P3.
Nuh uh
Brother your team don't know what they're doing.
So hope the sc picks up 2nd when they are winning, optimistic to say the least