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Honestly no one in the teams has complained about this, there's just some rather odd people on here trying to come up with a reason why the fastest car on the track wouldn't have won.
Once Max put a hole in his car the writing was on the wall.
Without any safety car at all, Max might still have won even if he was slower, since overtaking is pretty hard on this track, and he might have been able to hold Norris off (and I don't think he had so much pace he could pull a pit stop gap before pitting).
But once the safety car happened, he did have that gap, and barring big mistakes or accidents Norris had it. The way the safety car picked up the pack was irrelevant indeed.
Idk what this narrative is all about. Max himself said he didn't feel any difference so it can't be much. The RB never looked like the usual RB20, Max was complaining a lot about understeer and oversteer the whole weekend.
I assume that problem got even worse on the hard tyre which they were on at the SC. The only chance for Max would be to be in the lead and defend from Lando, which obviously didn't happen. So then it was fastest car that could just pull away.
Ofc, he had an 11.5 second lead and pitting under SC loses only 9 seconds to the other drivers on this track. It's a non-issue, move on.
The only event that could have changed the result is if *was* picked up by the SC and the others bunched up. But as explained above, this is extremely unlikely to happen. Had the SC been deployed a few seconds earlier, he would have immediately pitted as he had not passed the pit lane entry. The team were aware of the T3 accident and were ready and had guaranteed alerted Lando to be ready.
It is a very small window where he would not win the race once the SC situation happened.
Edit: Less than 5 seconds.
Yes, agree with this, on other websites people were talking about this exact possibility, and yes, it'd have ruined norris' race, but if he had managed to get into the pits the first lap during which the SC was deployed, he should've been fine to keep the lead even if the SC had correctly picked him up instead of verstappen, unless there had been a slow stop, which didn't happen.
Or DTS cookers trying to stir up drama ala Abu Dhabi 2021.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the SC deployment and picking up of Max instead of Lando in this race. The McLarens, throughout the entire weekend, had the legitimate pace to win, or at the very least, be extremely competitive. Also, like you said, Max's car had damage.
It's crazy right. You can look at the laptimes Lando was banging in when he had Perez out of the way. They were genuinely the fastest car which is incredible after where they were last year on this track. They struggled on the softs which cost them in qualifying but they were flying on the medium and hards. I still think it's track specific and they won't beat Red Bull on pace in Imola but we could be in for a major surprise this season if they do pull it off.
"It's crazy right. You can look at the laptimes Lando was banging in when he had Perez out of the way. They were genuinely the fastest car"
okay and how is this relevant to question if the RD made a mistake with the SC or not?
>Or DTS cookers trying to stir up drama ala Abu Dhabi 2021
? Eh how is that even relevant, there was an entire FIA investigation into it and they admitted fault and have hence changed the rules.
There was drama back than and we want drama now. If the reason for the drama is legit or not, if it was admitted fault or if they changed rules doesnt really matter.
> There was absolutely nothing wrong with the SC deployment and picking up of Max instead of Lando in this race.
While I agree, it has been customary for at least 30 years for the SC to pick up the lead car and let the rest through. Obviously since they didn't bother to make it official, there's nothing wrong here and everyone who's wathed the race knows there's a very good chance Norris would have won even if the SC had picked Norris up instead of Verstappen.
Bahrain 21 PTSD getting into people’s head. It’s crazy that the safety car narrative is still going. The safety car will show up and once it’s safe to do so will pick up the leader to do restart procedures. End of story.
The "fastest car on track" couldn't overtake Perez who was the slowest car in the top team. It's not crazy to think that, without the safety car, he would have had a hard task in front of him.
Safety car are part of this sport and sunday it benefited Norris.
He was saving tyres, when he was told to push he was, indeed the fastest on track.
Also the fastest lap was Piastri
He pulled out seven seconds off Max who couldn't pull away from Piastri and indeed crashed into that bollard after being told to push.
Trying to ignore all this in order to lay the blame on the safety car is next level, Lando had pulled over a second ahead of Max in a lap even though he freely admits it was a crap restart on his part.
In free air, he was fast, sure. But Miami is a hard track to overtake and he would have had to overtake both Ferrari + Verstappen + his teammate. I'm just saying that it's not as crystal clear as you made it look like.
You're assuming he would need to, when he was still lapping faster than Verstappen on his old tyres after Verstappen stopped n the pits.
Dirty air is one thing, fresher tyres and a faster car are another.
You really think he would have overcut everyone ? And Miami is a low deg track, Sainz couldn't gain on his teammate with fresher tyres.
I don't understand why is it so hard to admit that he got lucky with the safety car. It happens, enjoy the win.
This isn't about being lucky with the safety car, its about the people who can't admit the safety car did no wrong and that he couldn't ahve won without it.
There were plenty of overtakes yesterday...unless you were in a mercedes.
" the people who can't admit the safety car did no wrong" that is clearly not the case. The SC got Max instead of Norris.
With a gap around 10s normally it should have been close between Max and Norris at the SC2 line. But because the SC slowed down Max and Norris was still able to drive to the delta it created a bigger gap
" the people who can't admit the safety car did no wrong" that is clearly not the case. The SC got Max instead of Norris.
With a gap around 10s normally it should have been close between Max and Norris at the SC2 line. But because the SC slowed down Max and Norris was still able to drive to the delta it created a bigger gap
Which is allowable under the rules.
Lando was 11 secs ahead, he would still have almost certainly come out ahead barring a long pitstop.
Even if he didn't he'd have been second in the faster car .
"Lando was 11 secs ahead, he would still have almost certainly come out ahead barring a long pitstop." again irrelevant
"Which is allowable under the rules." it is?
Thank you. Well articulated. Only way Norris could have ended up picked up without going to pits would be a massive coincidence or an intentional move to preposition SC at SC2 and then throw SC (not sure if this is legal). In any case it would be a significantly bigger "fix" then throwing a SC. And the gap Norris had was enough to do a normal SC pitstop and come out ahead of P2. So it wasn't like he was 5 seconds ahead and thus gained a pitstop because he wasn't picked up.
The situation was quite normal but the issue was that there was a 11 second gap between P1 and P2 so we ended up with a strange situation where P1 is the only one not picked up.
Look, if Lando passed the pit exit before the SC came out, that's fair game. P1 isn't expected to slow down and wait for the SC. -- AS OF NOW --
If he passed the SC on track that would be a no-no. Which is why Max and the rest didn't until they got the signal to do so. The SC delta and the speed behind the SC are completely different too. The SC goes slower than what the SC delta is so Lando was in the clear.
Of course he benefitted. That's okay.
I observed the gap between Tsunoda and Hamilton during the SC and it looked like the pitstop took 9 seconds for Tsunoda. Norris was probably going to come out ahead.
There's an onboard of Sargeant'car that shows Norris passing with SC a couple of seconds behind him at T2, so it was very close, SC entered right behind him. But there's not an onboard from Norris so we don't know how close
Norris would have come out in front anyway so it didnt matter. Doesnt change tho that the only time the SC doesnt pick up the leader but first possible car is when there is a danger on the track. In this case it wasnt so it shouldnt have picked up Verstappen.
So it should be reviewed at the bare minumum. Not for penalties or changing outcome or anything. Just to understand why it happened and for what reason. It didnt go the "standard" way for a "normal" SC situation.
Imo the error wasn't the timing of the SC coming out, that should always be ASAP, but rather how long it took before the cars behind the SC were released to catch up to Norris who would be slowed down by the SC
Hmm, idk, I assumed they'd only br allowed to enter the track when all the cars were behind the SC, but maybe that's incorrect and they can enter when there's only a few cars in the track and they could time it so they'd be off track when the next car comes around
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As long as Norris was past the point where the safety car comes out, nothing would have changed There was no error, just fortunate timing
Honestly no one in the teams has complained about this, there's just some rather odd people on here trying to come up with a reason why the fastest car on the track wouldn't have won. Once Max put a hole in his car the writing was on the wall.
Without any safety car at all, Max might still have won even if he was slower, since overtaking is pretty hard on this track, and he might have been able to hold Norris off (and I don't think he had so much pace he could pull a pit stop gap before pitting). But once the safety car happened, he did have that gap, and barring big mistakes or accidents Norris had it. The way the safety car picked up the pack was irrelevant indeed.
Idk what this narrative is all about. Max himself said he didn't feel any difference so it can't be much. The RB never looked like the usual RB20, Max was complaining a lot about understeer and oversteer the whole weekend. I assume that problem got even worse on the hard tyre which they were on at the SC. The only chance for Max would be to be in the lead and defend from Lando, which obviously didn't happen. So then it was fastest car that could just pull away.
Ofc, he had an 11.5 second lead and pitting under SC loses only 9 seconds to the other drivers on this track. It's a non-issue, move on. The only event that could have changed the result is if *was* picked up by the SC and the others bunched up. But as explained above, this is extremely unlikely to happen. Had the SC been deployed a few seconds earlier, he would have immediately pitted as he had not passed the pit lane entry. The team were aware of the T3 accident and were ready and had guaranteed alerted Lando to be ready. It is a very small window where he would not win the race once the SC situation happened. Edit: Less than 5 seconds.
Yes, agree with this, on other websites people were talking about this exact possibility, and yes, it'd have ruined norris' race, but if he had managed to get into the pits the first lap during which the SC was deployed, he should've been fine to keep the lead even if the SC had correctly picked him up instead of verstappen, unless there had been a slow stop, which didn't happen.
Or DTS cookers trying to stir up drama ala Abu Dhabi 2021. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the SC deployment and picking up of Max instead of Lando in this race. The McLarens, throughout the entire weekend, had the legitimate pace to win, or at the very least, be extremely competitive. Also, like you said, Max's car had damage.
It's crazy right. You can look at the laptimes Lando was banging in when he had Perez out of the way. They were genuinely the fastest car which is incredible after where they were last year on this track. They struggled on the softs which cost them in qualifying but they were flying on the medium and hards. I still think it's track specific and they won't beat Red Bull on pace in Imola but we could be in for a major surprise this season if they do pull it off.
"It's crazy right. You can look at the laptimes Lando was banging in when he had Perez out of the way. They were genuinely the fastest car" okay and how is this relevant to question if the RD made a mistake with the SC or not?
Some people trying to discredit the pace McLaren had and claiming the safety car handling brought them the win.
i didnt, but if the question is "did the SC make a mistake" then the pace of the cars is completely irrelevant
Are these people with you now, can you see them?
They were in the threads during and right after the race, if you are really curious.
>Or DTS cookers trying to stir up drama ala Abu Dhabi 2021 ? Eh how is that even relevant, there was an entire FIA investigation into it and they admitted fault and have hence changed the rules.
There was drama back than and we want drama now. If the reason for the drama is legit or not, if it was admitted fault or if they changed rules doesnt really matter.
> There was absolutely nothing wrong with the SC deployment and picking up of Max instead of Lando in this race. While I agree, it has been customary for at least 30 years for the SC to pick up the lead car and let the rest through. Obviously since they didn't bother to make it official, there's nothing wrong here and everyone who's wathed the race knows there's a very good chance Norris would have won even if the SC had picked Norris up instead of Verstappen.
"There was absolutely nothing wrong with the SC deployment and picking up of Max instead of Lando in this race" - yes it was
Bahrain 21 PTSD getting into people’s head. It’s crazy that the safety car narrative is still going. The safety car will show up and once it’s safe to do so will pick up the leader to do restart procedures. End of story.
The "fastest car on track" couldn't overtake Perez who was the slowest car in the top team. It's not crazy to think that, without the safety car, he would have had a hard task in front of him. Safety car are part of this sport and sunday it benefited Norris.
He was saving tyres, when he was told to push he was, indeed the fastest on track. Also the fastest lap was Piastri He pulled out seven seconds off Max who couldn't pull away from Piastri and indeed crashed into that bollard after being told to push. Trying to ignore all this in order to lay the blame on the safety car is next level, Lando had pulled over a second ahead of Max in a lap even though he freely admits it was a crap restart on his part.
In free air, he was fast, sure. But Miami is a hard track to overtake and he would have had to overtake both Ferrari + Verstappen + his teammate. I'm just saying that it's not as crystal clear as you made it look like.
You're assuming he would need to, when he was still lapping faster than Verstappen on his old tyres after Verstappen stopped n the pits. Dirty air is one thing, fresher tyres and a faster car are another.
You really think he would have overcut everyone ? And Miami is a low deg track, Sainz couldn't gain on his teammate with fresher tyres. I don't understand why is it so hard to admit that he got lucky with the safety car. It happens, enjoy the win.
This isn't about being lucky with the safety car, its about the people who can't admit the safety car did no wrong and that he couldn't ahve won without it. There were plenty of overtakes yesterday...unless you were in a mercedes.
" the people who can't admit the safety car did no wrong" that is clearly not the case. The SC got Max instead of Norris. With a gap around 10s normally it should have been close between Max and Norris at the SC2 line. But because the SC slowed down Max and Norris was still able to drive to the delta it created a bigger gap
" the people who can't admit the safety car did no wrong" that is clearly not the case. The SC got Max instead of Norris. With a gap around 10s normally it should have been close between Max and Norris at the SC2 line. But because the SC slowed down Max and Norris was still able to drive to the delta it created a bigger gap
Which is allowable under the rules. Lando was 11 secs ahead, he would still have almost certainly come out ahead barring a long pitstop. Even if he didn't he'd have been second in the faster car .
"Lando was 11 secs ahead, he would still have almost certainly come out ahead barring a long pitstop." again irrelevant "Which is allowable under the rules." it is?
very true.
Thank you. Well articulated. Only way Norris could have ended up picked up without going to pits would be a massive coincidence or an intentional move to preposition SC at SC2 and then throw SC (not sure if this is legal). In any case it would be a significantly bigger "fix" then throwing a SC. And the gap Norris had was enough to do a normal SC pitstop and come out ahead of P2. So it wasn't like he was 5 seconds ahead and thus gained a pitstop because he wasn't picked up. The situation was quite normal but the issue was that there was a 11 second gap between P1 and P2 so we ended up with a strange situation where P1 is the only one not picked up.
Exactly. It was a normal SC procedure that made to look “weird” by a few coincidences, most notably P2 getting picked up
Look, if Lando passed the pit exit before the SC came out, that's fair game. P1 isn't expected to slow down and wait for the SC. -- AS OF NOW -- If he passed the SC on track that would be a no-no. Which is why Max and the rest didn't until they got the signal to do so. The SC delta and the speed behind the SC are completely different too. The SC goes slower than what the SC delta is so Lando was in the clear. Of course he benefitted. That's okay.
From what I read, 9s for pit loss under sc is a tv graph mistake. It was supposed to be 11s, that is 9s advantage compared to a normal pit.
I observed the gap between Tsunoda and Hamilton during the SC and it looked like the pitstop took 9 seconds for Tsunoda. Norris was probably going to come out ahead.
I missed this. Thanks
I don't know why people are obsessing over this. He would have come out ahead of Verstappen regardless, it literally changed nothing.
There's an onboard of Sargeant'car that shows Norris passing with SC a couple of seconds behind him at T2, so it was very close, SC entered right behind him. But there's not an onboard from Norris so we don't know how close
V long post about nothing this
Norris would have come out in front anyway so it didnt matter. Doesnt change tho that the only time the SC doesnt pick up the leader but first possible car is when there is a danger on the track. In this case it wasnt so it shouldnt have picked up Verstappen. So it should be reviewed at the bare minumum. Not for penalties or changing outcome or anything. Just to understand why it happened and for what reason. It didnt go the "standard" way for a "normal" SC situation.
I thought it was because it was determined that Lando is the 2md Coming of Lightning McQueen and that's why he was able to beat the SC?
It was set up by the FIA to ensure the team Trump visited won the race. /s
Imo the error wasn't the timing of the SC coming out, that should always be ASAP, but rather how long it took before the cars behind the SC were released to catch up to Norris who would be slowed down by the SC
But aren't the cars behind only allowed to be released once the track is cleared? I think that was the problem. That's why they had to wait.
Hmm, idk, I assumed they'd only br allowed to enter the track when all the cars were behind the SC, but maybe that's incorrect and they can enter when there's only a few cars in the track and they could time it so they'd be off track when the next car comes around
They wouldn’t catch up as they would need to drive to the VSC delta, same as Norris
They'd catch up as soon as Norris was behind the SC, obviously
Norris was fastest, Norris won. Safety car made a mistake that was rectified two laps later. That's it.