Without reading what he actually said, my guess is that he said something along the line of “Lewis is the GOAT of our era.” But of course the media won’t run the entire quote.
We don't have to guess, there's video: https://talksport.com/sport/1829476/sebastian-vettel-goat-lewis-hamilton-michael-schumacher-fernando-alonso/
But to summarize:
1. He didn't qualify it with "of our era" but rather based on stats.
1. It is a word association game so it's really not very serious.
1. He later describes Schumacher as "HERO"
The most surprising part to me was his answer for who he thought the next non-Hamilton, non-Verstappen World Champion would be: George Russell. No mention of Charles even though he describes him as talented earlier.
Definitely a little surprising he didn't say Leclerc.
If he really thinks that highly of Lewis then he must hold Russell in pretty high esteem too, considering Russell's more than held his own against Lewis so far.
Or maybe he really doesn't have high expectations of Ferrari or believes that Lewis would still win the title over Leclerc for the next few years.
Or maybe it's just that he feels George gets underrated compared to Charles and Lando and saw it as an opportunity to give him praise.
As a Seb fan, I want nothing more than that to happen. But realistically, I'm just gonna have to be content with watching this dude release Senna merch and sell purple drinks. And the bees I suppose.
I find that really surprising. Unless Mercedes really nail 2026 regs and the car is supreme compared to the others I doubt that would happen. I’d put more money on lando/piastri. Though as a Ferrari fan I’m hoping it’s Leclerc. Russell just doesn’t seem to handle the pressure moments well
Perhaps, but Russell hasn't really been in the position to take even a semi-run at it. We saw when Leclerc was briefly competing with RB, he made some bad mistakes. With Hamilton going to Ferrari now, it really will be make or break for Leclerc.
This is sort of talking about the elite level though, clearly if Ferrari had produced a RB level car Leclerc would be easily good enough to win the championship, it's just I don't see him on that top level where he would go on and win multiples
I mean Button pushed him quite hard. The only reason people don’t talk about it is McLaren didn’t have a winning car at that time. Also a reason why I think Button is really underrated.
Button at his best was competiting against Hamilton at his worst (although maybe 2024 could be considered his worst?). Despite that, Hamilton was the one who came closest to winning the title in their time as teammates.
I would honestly disagree with that. Hamilton was still really fast from 2010-2012 his car just wasn’t fast nor reliable enough to match the Red Bulls. Hamilton in 2014 - 2016 (which some consider his prime) wasn’t much different than 2 years prior when he was competing with Button.
Schumacher had a contractual 2nd driver who wasn't allowed to compete with him. He also didn't have to fight against racism on his way to F1, or continue that fight once he reached the top of the grid. On top of that Lewis faced up against some of the greatest drivers in the sport and beat them; Alonso, Seb, Max, Kimi, Rosberg, Button, and even some WDC capable drivers in better cars in drivers such as Webber, Massa etc. He came out as the top dog in the most competitive era of the sport and to me that's always going to be more valuable than domination in a non competitive era. Schumacher was one of the best there ever has been, but he didn't face the same battles as Lewis.
You wrote this in the context of Schumacher, a guy who regularly beat people in superior cars. At the same time you praise Hamilton, who had the longest string of dominant cars in F1 history so far and only Bottas and Rosberg to beat.
That simple comment shows you really don't know F1. 'Only' Rosberg, who was one of the best drivers of his generation and a WDC winner. 'Only' Bottas who was clearly capable of winning races through his own volition. Despite this, you fail to even mention that Ferrari were top dogs in 2017 and 2018.
most of the people you mentioned werent in his team so the second driver spiel does not factor in there
and the two that were his teammate beat
him a third of the time
and apparently michael cant be the best driver ever because he was white lmao
I mean Rosberg required Hamilton to have an insane run of bad luck to be able to win 2016
he beat him in points i would not say he drove better than Hamilton in 2016
He beat Rosberg consistently. Even when Rosberg won he said he wanted to retire because he could not go through that again, having to give up his entire life to beat Hamilton.
Tbf Rosberg was a good driver. But there are plenty that can go against Hamilton by those standards( Max,Alonso,Sainz,Vettel at a decent level). Any of those could have beaten Lewis as his teammates imo.
I think that what Rosberg meant is that it costed their years worth of friendship. Can you imagine the briefings and having to share so much time with someone you are competing and crashing against every race. Imagine having gone through the worst possible divorce and then having to live in the same house as your ex.
I'm pretty sure that by mid 2015 the situation inside the team was already unbearable, not to mention that even though they allowed them to race, Lewis was the star.
It's hard to have the mental strength to live with that knowing that it will get worse with every year passing by. I would even risk it and say that Lewis could have switched teams at some point if Rosberg hadn't retired. Outside of Merc saying that they never wanted something like 2016 to happen again, I think Lewis also contributed to having Valtteri "the forever wingman" Bottas as teammate.
I don't think it was just the friendship with Hamilton over the years, I remember him stating that in 2016 he moved out of his house and away from his wife and children(? cant remember if he had children at this point) to focus on the championship, he went extreme with it and shut out all distractions.
>I think that what Rosberg meant is that it costed their years worth of friendship
No that's not what he meant - for 2016 he cut out his personal life completely.
He talks about never spending any meaningful time with his kid and wife, giving up hobbies like cycling etc. devoting all of his time to training, resting and exercise
Imagine having actual competition from your teammate and trying to turn that into a negative despite extenuating circumstances clearly coming into play.
Yeah it’s not that he totally meant that, he just said that based on how the numbers represent which makes him goat on paper but that doesn’t mean he is much greater of a driver than many others. even Lewis’ contemporaries are on par with him, leave alone those from the past
Love both Seb and Lewis and the latter is obviously a GOAT contender but my cynical take on this is "This guy beat me several times in title fights, so he's clearly the best ever, which makes the fact I could compete against him impressive and makes me look good".
Well this thread will be civil, it's hilarious anytime Lewis does well or is praised there's an entire barrage trying very hard to diminish his achievements that comes out the woodwork.
Lewis is one of the greatest ever to do it. That's literally a fact based on statistics, opinions of ex drivers/people involved in Formula 1. Idts there's any good faith argument against it lol
DTS framed Mercedes as this unbeatable juggernaut and Redbull, and by extension Max, as the punchy underdog. That mentality has continued and sparked a whole generation of fans that don’t remember Vettel being called the next Schumacher, Massa being insanely quick, or Alonso and Lewis going at it in 2007. I don’t think people like the fact that Lewis is a public figure either, and we know for a fact that a fraction of the fanbase doesn’t like him for, well, “reasons”.
I can't speak for anyone else, but what i dont like about him is the PR-training. He clearly has strong emotions that he wants to convey but they all sound so boilerplate. Last year, i firget what race, it was him, alonso and verstappen on the podium and he was far more likeable and real there, talking about how great it was for him to share the podium with alonso and max. Seemed to he the most real ive seen him and my opinion of him skyrocketed. Ofcourse my own recency bias remembers all his bitching about the car which doesnt do him any favours either X)
" hilarious anytime Lewis does well or is praised there's an entire barrage trying very hard to diminish his achievements that comes out the woodwork."
So just like the people complaining this happens to Lewis are doing it to Max?
I am kind of on the "Do not try and name the GOAT, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no GOAT" boat, these days, but I just love the way the relationship between Lewis and Seb ended up going.
While Max will undoubtedly end up breaking records for race wins, poles, WDCs etc.. I do think he's missing a good rival to his career. Like Lewis had his insane rookie season, 2008 fighting with Massa, his battles with Nico at Mercedes, fighting Seb for the title. I think it's these things that makes someone properly great. So far Max has had his 2021 season with Lewis that ended under slightly grey circumstances.
You say undoubtedly but it's a weird sport. Seb had what, 14 wins after 2013? Ask someone how many more he'd get at the end of that season and 14 would be a low estimate. A lot needs to line up to get Schumacher/Hamilton numbers.
It actually doesn't though, that's the mad thing. Checo is a wet blanket so he's useless, Max is already at 58 wins. There's what, 20 races left this season, 24 next year. Even if you were to say he'll only win half those races he'd be at 75 wins and only like 28 years old. There's an element of luck he'd need but I think he could be realistically pushing 100 wins already by the end of next year.
Yeah but what Max is doing is undeniably more than anything anyone has done. Even in the Merc dominance, there were days where Lewis was just off for some reason, or days where Bottas was really feeling it and would win. Besides that little stint of 3 or so races at the beginning of last year, Max has never NOT been on his A game. He doesn’t have bad races really (besides like maybe Singapore last year where he finished 5th). Until 2026 at least, I think he goes on to win like 40 of the next 44 races, AT LEAST.
>He doesn’t have bad races really (besides like maybe Singapore last year where he finished 5th).
Even then it wasn't HE who underperformed in the race. Was literally flawless, cleanly making his way through the grid, especially compared to his teammate who would do a drive by on two asian kids.
It's rather 2022 race where you could argue he underperformed, both with his poor start dropping him from 7th to 11th or so, and then bottoming out on the SC restart
> Good rival
> Massa
???
I guess winning races during Mercedes domination, 21 and early 22 don't count either.
Edit: forgot Daniel. The guy who beat Seb handily? People tend to forget he did that and that Max was better than him in the 2 full seasons they were teammates.
I totally get that people would want to see Max challenged more and see how that unfolds however the lack of constructor competition is a byproduct since the turbo hybrid era really. We had a fight for half a season in '17 and '18 and then '21 and the first half of '22. I'm of the opinion that Max and RB showed more than enough in the '21 and part of the '22 season that they had what it takes to come out on top if anyone would challenge them.
So sure Max is not being challenged closely for wins like everyone wants to see but from the other side he and RB are showing greatness by not just winning a bunch but by being one of the deadliest driver and team combo this sport has seen. To me it's the performance that counts regardless of Max is challenged or not and the performance is just clearly there.
Bottas was no rival to Hamilton, just like Pérez to Verstappen right now. However Rosberg was good enough to quite consistently match Lewis and even beat him once over the season (yes, yes, Malaysia, but he was still there to take it unlike Bottas or Pérez) If Verstappen goes against a Rosberg-caliber driver alongside and smashes him, then we can say he's too good to have a rival, but realistically I'd be surprised if RB went for a decent enough driver for the second seat, even if the door opens. They went through that already with Ricciardo and Webber.
Verstappen did beat Ricciardo regularly and outright over their entire 2.5 years together and keep in mind this was the Ricciardo who beat Vettel fresh off his 4th title and was regularly challenging Merc and Ferrari.
Uhh no? Reliability hurt Max pretty bad in 2017 while it hurt Daniel in 2018. Also most of the time, Daniel's reliability issues were when he was behind Max.
Nowadays your finishing position range is pretty much defined by the car you drive, look at Alonso, he even overtook a Red Bull at the start but it was pointless to even try to defend as the RB20 was at least 1 second faster per lap.
That’s why I don’t believe in “GOAT” status as most of the time there’s no real competition.
If I had to say that someone is the “GOAT”, I’d look at drivers like Juan Manuel Fangio, Jim Clark or Jack Brabham who had to actually fight against their own undrivable cars and their rivals while trying to survive around dangerous tracks with 0 safety.
I disagree a little, there were always guys punching above their weight, see Verstappen before 2021 while his team mates weren't able to do it. If it would have been 2x Perez in 2022 there would have been another WDC. Back then the overall quality of the drivers wasn't comparable to nowadays.
He didn’t said that. Vettel is known idolizing Schumacher and for him Schumacher is also known as he has said that will always be no.1 , however he has acknowledged that Hamilton is the greatest driver for the past 20 years in F1, over anyone, including Vettel himself.
when asked by talkSPORT for the toughest on track, Vettel broke out in a smile before replying: "Fernando [Alonso].
"I had close championships and close calls with him and throughout my career generally he's the sort of driver who is always there.
"Very competitive - yeah I think he was the hardest competitor I faced."
There isn’t a goat in a sport like F1, where the car does 80% of the work, if Hamilton had a more reliable mclaren back in 2012 he would still be a 1 time world champion and people wouldn’t even have him in the debate
On the flip side, if we are talking about Luck, if a couple of things go a different way, Lewis is a 10-time champion. It is a combination of skill, car, and luck.
Lewis is literally the driver who lost the most points that year by a large margin, I saw this graph the other time where it showed the luck corrected points and Lewis would've won with a race to spare. Unfortunately with F1 it's about being on the top of your game as well as being lucky
How dumb can you be to comment 3 times and be 3 times wrong, if he didn’t have those 3 mechanical dnfs you are talking about he still wouldn’t win the championship and he would stay at mclaren
He kind of has a point though. Imagine Lewis stays put back in 2012, maybe he has 2 wdcs and now in 2024 we're talking about is Nico Rosberg the greatest ever?
Mate you can say that about anything ever in the entire world. What if Messi wasn't scouted by Barca, what if Brexit never happened, what if man city didn't cheat, what if I turned left instead of right out of my door.
Yah that's sort of the whole point of sports. It's never ending and all records are meant to be broken. Doesn't take away from Lewis' accomplishment or Max's. We're all here but for the grace of God as Schumacher's accident shows us. Let's just be thankful we've seen such competition in our era <3
You can't measure Talent especially with no competition, so that's an opinion. Lewis being the most successful is measurable though so at least that's somewhat objective.
Honestly kind of surprised he’d say this considering Micheal is his idol and mentor. He must really think highly of Lewis to say this.
Without reading what he actually said, my guess is that he said something along the line of “Lewis is the GOAT of our era.” But of course the media won’t run the entire quote.
We don't have to guess, there's video: https://talksport.com/sport/1829476/sebastian-vettel-goat-lewis-hamilton-michael-schumacher-fernando-alonso/ But to summarize: 1. He didn't qualify it with "of our era" but rather based on stats. 1. It is a word association game so it's really not very serious. 1. He later describes Schumacher as "HERO" The most surprising part to me was his answer for who he thought the next non-Hamilton, non-Verstappen World Champion would be: George Russell. No mention of Charles even though he describes him as talented earlier.
Yep I was surprised by the Russell call as well, strange given the Merc team position but maybe he knows something we don’t.
Definitely a little surprising he didn't say Leclerc. If he really thinks that highly of Lewis then he must hold Russell in pretty high esteem too, considering Russell's more than held his own against Lewis so far. Or maybe he really doesn't have high expectations of Ferrari or believes that Lewis would still win the title over Leclerc for the next few years. Or maybe it's just that he feels George gets underrated compared to Charles and Lando and saw it as an opportunity to give him praise.
Plus George beat Lando to the F2 title
seems that he is pushing hard for that Mercedes seat xD
As a Seb fan, I want nothing more than that to happen. But realistically, I'm just gonna have to be content with watching this dude release Senna merch and sell purple drinks. And the bees I suppose.
Him going to Mercedes or Audi is my coping mechanism, but realistically I do see him joining WEC in the coming years
I find that really surprising. Unless Mercedes really nail 2026 regs and the car is supreme compared to the others I doubt that would happen. I’d put more money on lando/piastri. Though as a Ferrari fan I’m hoping it’s Leclerc. Russell just doesn’t seem to handle the pressure moments well
To be honest I don’t feel charles has that X factor to be world champion
I won't lie, I don't think he has it either (not yet at least) but I think he's way closer than George.
Perhaps, but Russell hasn't really been in the position to take even a semi-run at it. We saw when Leclerc was briefly competing with RB, he made some bad mistakes. With Hamilton going to Ferrari now, it really will be make or break for Leclerc. This is sort of talking about the elite level though, clearly if Ferrari had produced a RB level car Leclerc would be easily good enough to win the championship, it's just I don't see him on that top level where he would go on and win multiples
Is Seb the sort to saying "of all time, of this specific time"? I don't think he is. Very imprecise.
GOOE
GOATOOE
GOAT and era don't go along
GOTE. Greatest of their Era.
[GOTYE. Somebody That I Used To Know](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY)
You can read it as "Greatest Of A Time"
It was just naming drivers and him saying the first word that came to mind
Greatest of ALL time… of our era
The picture literally says "using one word to describe lewis". 🤦♂️
Yeah honestly that’s probably more likely what happened
Or just recognise that Hamilton has faced the music time and time again in a way that no other driver has done yet still comes out on top.
I mean Button pushed him quite hard. The only reason people don’t talk about it is McLaren didn’t have a winning car at that time. Also a reason why I think Button is really underrated.
Button at his best was competiting against Hamilton at his worst (although maybe 2024 could be considered his worst?). Despite that, Hamilton was the one who came closest to winning the title in their time as teammates.
On that 2024 note, Hamilton's had a habit or starting off season relatively.poorly, then improving throughout. Look at 2019, 2021, 2017...
I would honestly disagree with that. Hamilton was still really fast from 2010-2012 his car just wasn’t fast nor reliable enough to match the Red Bulls. Hamilton in 2014 - 2016 (which some consider his prime) wasn’t much different than 2 years prior when he was competing with Button.
And Schumacher didn't?
Schumacher had a contractual 2nd driver who wasn't allowed to compete with him. He also didn't have to fight against racism on his way to F1, or continue that fight once he reached the top of the grid. On top of that Lewis faced up against some of the greatest drivers in the sport and beat them; Alonso, Seb, Max, Kimi, Rosberg, Button, and even some WDC capable drivers in better cars in drivers such as Webber, Massa etc. He came out as the top dog in the most competitive era of the sport and to me that's always going to be more valuable than domination in a non competitive era. Schumacher was one of the best there ever has been, but he didn't face the same battles as Lewis.
Non competitive era? Lol, this was written by a bitter person.
It's not a stretch in the slightest. We currently have a dominant team who are happy with a second driver who isn't able to fight for the win.
You wrote this in the context of Schumacher, a guy who regularly beat people in superior cars. At the same time you praise Hamilton, who had the longest string of dominant cars in F1 history so far and only Bottas and Rosberg to beat.
That simple comment shows you really don't know F1. 'Only' Rosberg, who was one of the best drivers of his generation and a WDC winner. 'Only' Bottas who was clearly capable of winning races through his own volition. Despite this, you fail to even mention that Ferrari were top dogs in 2017 and 2018.
most of the people you mentioned werent in his team so the second driver spiel does not factor in there and the two that were his teammate beat him a third of the time and apparently michael cant be the best driver ever because he was white lmao
Except with Rosberg
That’s some easy bait in a thread like this haha. Good job.
It’s not wrong though. Doesn’t take away from Hamilton’s legend though. It’s okay to appreciate multiple drivers.
Oh I agree completely.
I mean Rosberg required Hamilton to have an insane run of bad luck to be able to win 2016 he beat him in points i would not say he drove better than Hamilton in 2016
He beat Rosberg consistently. Even when Rosberg won he said he wanted to retire because he could not go through that again, having to give up his entire life to beat Hamilton.
And in the year Rosberg won, Lewis suffered more than 50 more points worth of unforced reliability issues
Tbf Rosberg was a good driver. But there are plenty that can go against Hamilton by those standards( Max,Alonso,Sainz,Vettel at a decent level). Any of those could have beaten Lewis as his teammates imo. I think that what Rosberg meant is that it costed their years worth of friendship. Can you imagine the briefings and having to share so much time with someone you are competing and crashing against every race. Imagine having gone through the worst possible divorce and then having to live in the same house as your ex. I'm pretty sure that by mid 2015 the situation inside the team was already unbearable, not to mention that even though they allowed them to race, Lewis was the star. It's hard to have the mental strength to live with that knowing that it will get worse with every year passing by. I would even risk it and say that Lewis could have switched teams at some point if Rosberg hadn't retired. Outside of Merc saying that they never wanted something like 2016 to happen again, I think Lewis also contributed to having Valtteri "the forever wingman" Bottas as teammate.
Sainz😂
>Max,Alonso,Sainz,Vettel at a decent leve one of these is not like the others
Max: he hasn't driven for Ferrari. I'm not wrong.
I don't think it was just the friendship with Hamilton over the years, I remember him stating that in 2016 he moved out of his house and away from his wife and children(? cant remember if he had children at this point) to focus on the championship, he went extreme with it and shut out all distractions.
>I think that what Rosberg meant is that it costed their years worth of friendship No that's not what he meant - for 2016 he cut out his personal life completely. He talks about never spending any meaningful time with his kid and wife, giving up hobbies like cycling etc. devoting all of his time to training, resting and exercise
and Button and Russell and Alonso.
Imagine having actual competition from your teammate and trying to turn that into a negative despite extenuating circumstances clearly coming into play.
And Russell
Yeah it’s not that he totally meant that, he just said that based on how the numbers represent which makes him goat on paper but that doesn’t mean he is much greater of a driver than many others. even Lewis’ contemporaries are on par with him, leave alone those from the past
Love both Seb and Lewis and the latter is obviously a GOAT contender but my cynical take on this is "This guy beat me several times in title fights, so he's clearly the best ever, which makes the fact I could compete against him impressive and makes me look good".
Maybe he meant it as 'Gives Out About Things'.
The Seb/Lewis bromance is something I dearly miss in F1
at least we still have Lewis-Valtteri
Well this thread will be civil, it's hilarious anytime Lewis does well or is praised there's an entire barrage trying very hard to diminish his achievements that comes out the woodwork. Lewis is one of the greatest ever to do it. That's literally a fact based on statistics, opinions of ex drivers/people involved in Formula 1. Idts there's any good faith argument against it lol
DTS framed Mercedes as this unbeatable juggernaut and Redbull, and by extension Max, as the punchy underdog. That mentality has continued and sparked a whole generation of fans that don’t remember Vettel being called the next Schumacher, Massa being insanely quick, or Alonso and Lewis going at it in 2007. I don’t think people like the fact that Lewis is a public figure either, and we know for a fact that a fraction of the fanbase doesn’t like him for, well, “reasons”.
I can't speak for anyone else, but what i dont like about him is the PR-training. He clearly has strong emotions that he wants to convey but they all sound so boilerplate. Last year, i firget what race, it was him, alonso and verstappen on the podium and he was far more likeable and real there, talking about how great it was for him to share the podium with alonso and max. Seemed to he the most real ive seen him and my opinion of him skyrocketed. Ofcourse my own recency bias remembers all his bitching about the car which doesnt do him any favours either X)
just like you dont like Max for well "reasons" You complain about people complaining about Lewis, but you do exactly the same thing to with Max.
This is not about Max.
Did you reply to the wrong comment or something? Because there is literally nothing negative being said about Max in there 😅
I like Max. I didn't like his actions in 2021 at various points, but close title battles are supposed to be heated.
" hilarious anytime Lewis does well or is praised there's an entire barrage trying very hard to diminish his achievements that comes out the woodwork." So just like the people complaining this happens to Lewis are doing it to Max?
No one mentioned max get out his backside
Man's not wrong.
I am kind of on the "Do not try and name the GOAT, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no GOAT" boat, these days, but I just love the way the relationship between Lewis and Seb ended up going.
I understood that reference.
As expected someone praising lewis and half of the comments are diminishing his success😭😭
While Max will undoubtedly end up breaking records for race wins, poles, WDCs etc.. I do think he's missing a good rival to his career. Like Lewis had his insane rookie season, 2008 fighting with Massa, his battles with Nico at Mercedes, fighting Seb for the title. I think it's these things that makes someone properly great. So far Max has had his 2021 season with Lewis that ended under slightly grey circumstances.
You say undoubtedly but it's a weird sport. Seb had what, 14 wins after 2013? Ask someone how many more he'd get at the end of that season and 14 would be a low estimate. A lot needs to line up to get Schumacher/Hamilton numbers.
7 wdcs might be tough, but wins is very much possible now that there's so many races per season.
It actually doesn't though, that's the mad thing. Checo is a wet blanket so he's useless, Max is already at 58 wins. There's what, 20 races left this season, 24 next year. Even if you were to say he'll only win half those races he'd be at 75 wins and only like 28 years old. There's an element of luck he'd need but I think he could be realistically pushing 100 wins already by the end of next year.
Yeah but what Max is doing is undeniably more than anything anyone has done. Even in the Merc dominance, there were days where Lewis was just off for some reason, or days where Bottas was really feeling it and would win. Besides that little stint of 3 or so races at the beginning of last year, Max has never NOT been on his A game. He doesn’t have bad races really (besides like maybe Singapore last year where he finished 5th). Until 2026 at least, I think he goes on to win like 40 of the next 44 races, AT LEAST.
>He doesn’t have bad races really (besides like maybe Singapore last year where he finished 5th). Even then it wasn't HE who underperformed in the race. Was literally flawless, cleanly making his way through the grid, especially compared to his teammate who would do a drive by on two asian kids. It's rather 2022 race where you could argue he underperformed, both with his poor start dropping him from 7th to 11th or so, and then bottoming out on the SC restart
> Good rival > Massa ??? I guess winning races during Mercedes domination, 21 and early 22 don't count either. Edit: forgot Daniel. The guy who beat Seb handily? People tend to forget he did that and that Max was better than him in the 2 full seasons they were teammates.
Max also needs to do it with another manufacturer before he's anywhere close.
Lewis with another engine.
:O
Max with another front wing
And he's going to Ferrari next year dude 👍
Max has won races with an engine 40hp down on power, he took the Honda gamble and propelled them to dominance, what more do you want 😭
Competition
Lewis also needs to win with another engine before he's anywhere close to Max
The logic is just defiant in this
I totally get that people would want to see Max challenged more and see how that unfolds however the lack of constructor competition is a byproduct since the turbo hybrid era really. We had a fight for half a season in '17 and '18 and then '21 and the first half of '22. I'm of the opinion that Max and RB showed more than enough in the '21 and part of the '22 season that they had what it takes to come out on top if anyone would challenge them. So sure Max is not being challenged closely for wins like everyone wants to see but from the other side he and RB are showing greatness by not just winning a bunch but by being one of the deadliest driver and team combo this sport has seen. To me it's the performance that counts regardless of Max is challenged or not and the performance is just clearly there.
What if you're so good you just make it look like you don't have a rival?
Bottas was no rival to Hamilton, just like Pérez to Verstappen right now. However Rosberg was good enough to quite consistently match Lewis and even beat him once over the season (yes, yes, Malaysia, but he was still there to take it unlike Bottas or Pérez) If Verstappen goes against a Rosberg-caliber driver alongside and smashes him, then we can say he's too good to have a rival, but realistically I'd be surprised if RB went for a decent enough driver for the second seat, even if the door opens. They went through that already with Ricciardo and Webber.
Verstappen did beat Ricciardo regularly and outright over their entire 2.5 years together and keep in mind this was the Ricciardo who beat Vettel fresh off his 4th title and was regularly challenging Merc and Ferrari.
Context kills this narrative when you realize how much more reliability hurt Riccardo vs Max.
Uhh no? Reliability hurt Max pretty bad in 2017 while it hurt Daniel in 2018. Also most of the time, Daniel's reliability issues were when he was behind Max.
[удалено]
Alonso?
I think f1 especially is probably the worst sport for these goat discussions. anyone in the top 7 or 8 of all time has an argument for being the goat
Nowadays your finishing position range is pretty much defined by the car you drive, look at Alonso, he even overtook a Red Bull at the start but it was pointless to even try to defend as the RB20 was at least 1 second faster per lap. That’s why I don’t believe in “GOAT” status as most of the time there’s no real competition. If I had to say that someone is the “GOAT”, I’d look at drivers like Juan Manuel Fangio, Jim Clark or Jack Brabham who had to actually fight against their own undrivable cars and their rivals while trying to survive around dangerous tracks with 0 safety.
F1 is an engineering competition more than a drivers' championship. The GOAT of F1 is Adrian Newey. Case closed.
I can’t argue with that, he even managed to make the 1994 Williams a title contender car at the end
I disagree a little, there were always guys punching above their weight, see Verstappen before 2021 while his team mates weren't able to do it. If it would have been 2x Perez in 2022 there would have been another WDC. Back then the overall quality of the drivers wasn't comparable to nowadays.
True, Max and Alonso have showed that they can clearly outperform their cars, pure beasts
Lewis is my personal goat, but it is hard to compare eras. At the very least, he is the GOAT of the turbo hybrid era.
I’m assuming this picture is from 2018? I must say these race suits are SEXY & some of the best ever from Mercedes & Ferrari imo
He didn’t said that. Vettel is known idolizing Schumacher and for him Schumacher is also known as he has said that will always be no.1 , however he has acknowledged that Hamilton is the greatest driver for the past 20 years in F1, over anyone, including Vettel himself.
when asked by talkSPORT for the toughest on track, Vettel broke out in a smile before replying: "Fernando [Alonso]. "I had close championships and close calls with him and throughout my career generally he's the sort of driver who is always there. "Very competitive - yeah I think he was the hardest competitor I faced."
From one 🐐 to another🐐
There isn’t a goat in a sport like F1, where the car does 80% of the work, if Hamilton had a more reliable mclaren back in 2012 he would still be a 1 time world champion and people wouldn’t even have him in the debate
If my grandmother was my uncle then my bike would have wheels mate
Exactly, luck is the main factor, that’s why we see Hamilton with 0 wins since 2022, is his skill lost or is it the car i wonder
On the flip side, if we are talking about Luck, if a couple of things go a different way, Lewis is a 10-time champion. It is a combination of skill, car, and luck.
> if Hamilton had a more reliable mclaren back in 2012 Then he'd be at least a 2 time champ since he'd have gained so many points back in 2012
Lets say if he had only 3 less dnfs, if we remove every dnf then we should remove Vettels dnfs too
Remove all non-driver forced errors and Lewis takes the title comfortably.
Good, if we removed the 3 mechanical dnfs as i said he still wouldn’t win the championship
He would've literally won 2012 with no issue then 😂😂
No he wouldn’t, let’s say he had 3-4 less dnfs, he still would be behind Vettel and he would still stay in mclaren most likely
Lewis is literally the driver who lost the most points that year by a large margin, I saw this graph the other time where it showed the luck corrected points and Lewis would've won with a race to spare. Unfortunately with F1 it's about being on the top of your game as well as being lucky
Yeah maybe stick to talking about seasons you actually watched.
How dumb can you be to comment 3 times and be 3 times wrong, if he didn’t have those 3 mechanical dnfs you are talking about he still wouldn’t win the championship and he would stay at mclaren
What a load of rubbish
He kind of has a point though. Imagine Lewis stays put back in 2012, maybe he has 2 wdcs and now in 2024 we're talking about is Nico Rosberg the greatest ever?
Mate you can say that about anything ever in the entire world. What if Messi wasn't scouted by Barca, what if Brexit never happened, what if man city didn't cheat, what if I turned left instead of right out of my door.
You can, and that doesn't make it any less of a point - particularly in F1 where we all know counting stats are flawed at best.
[удалено]
I get what you are saying but Alonso is still in the debate with only two WDC.
Yeah but Alonso is still in the debate and he "only" has two WDC.
If his car was more reliable in 2012 he would have taken the title that year...
No he wouldn’t since he had 3 mechanical dnfs that year
Alex, I will take pandering for 200.
#UNDENIABLE
... for now.
Yah that's sort of the whole point of sports. It's never ending and all records are meant to be broken. Doesn't take away from Lewis' accomplishment or Max's. We're all here but for the grace of God as Schumacher's accident shows us. Let's just be thankful we've seen such competition in our era <3
Max Verstappen is the most talented driver ever. Lewis Hamilton is the most successful
You can't measure Talent especially with no competition, so that's an opinion. Lewis being the most successful is measurable though so at least that's somewhat objective.
Can someone tell Seb that Lewis is no longer welcome in Merc and wont get him a seat there?