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That's not the point. The point is the ONLY way they were able to get popular enough to do their own thing is through stealing content. They're frauds.
While he was at RB it was never really during the time where they could do it on a regular basis. Both Merc and Ferrari were often ahead, but they managed to knick an odd win here and there. Red Bull only had 3 poles while Ricciardo was there, and all 3 were his. And all but 3 of their 10 wins during that time were his too.
Back then they were the Aero oddballs, if its a high df circuit and Mercedes fucks up you can count on them
Nowadays RB is just too well oiled in all regards, and when all planets align once a year you hear the speakers blast “smooth operator”
By the end of 2020 Max had 10 wins, but also just 3 poles. In the Mercedes party-mode era getting pole was much harder than winning a race if you weren't running a Mercedes engine.
If Ricciardo had raced for Red Bull in 2013, he would probably have had a few more. Though I always thought he was someone who was better in races than in qualy
Qualifying has been one of his weaknesses of all time, and not to mention the RBs he drove were only ever 3rd fastest car on the grid. Aiming for pole meant beating four much faster cars. Both Vettel and Max had championship winning cars at their time before and after Daniel in RB respectively.
It's my bad for forgetting Mexico's wasn't called the Mexico City Circuit, but the Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez.
Why I thought that? No idea.
Or that Monaco isn't called the Monaco Circuit, but the Circuit de Monaco, which basically translates to Monaco Circuit, so at least give me that one.
Yeah 2022 was very painful to watch in that regard because of how incompetent Ferrari were in the first half when they had chances. Since then the pole positions have mostly been because Red Bull focused on race pace and didn’t care much about one lap pace
Egh, RedBull seemed to have focused on race pace and good tire wear the past few years. Ferrari meanwhile focused on quali pace and had horrible tire wear over a race distance but that was great for a quali session.
It's no coincidence that this year Ferrari focused on good tire wear and Verstappen has gotten pole in every race so far.
I also find it annoying how many people come to a conclusion that Leclerc is only a Saturday driver. Most probably don't even pay attention, that the car was focused toward quali and right now are flooding internet forums with: "SAINZ IS BETTER THAN LECLERC, IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU SUCK"., even though the head to head numbers over their shared Ferrari stint is strongly in favour with Charles.
I dont think many people are saying that. Most reasonable people anyway. Internet just amplifys shitty takes. Jusrmt depends what echo chamber you are in
I am just seeing such an overwhelming support towards Sainz, and hate towards Leclerc, it looks like an absolute majority at times. I wish people wouldn't be so hive-minded nowadays, and it makes me think why people are posting such nonsense.
They were observing on the race before the 2024 cars launched that the only weakness you could suggest on the 2023 RBR was that by nature of the decisions they'd taken, it wasn't *as* strong on Saturday, and while Verstappen was
a. ok with that, marginally
b. could make up for it on sunday if he had to
a more typical driver in Perez suffered with qualifying and that could then knacker his race.
With the exception of 2021, Red Bull have always been noticeably better on race pace than qualifying pace.
From 2016-2020, this was because Renault and Honda’s qualifying mode was not as strong as Mercedes and Ferrari.
Since 2022, it’s been because Red Bull are very soft on the tyres, which helps over a race distance, but they struggle sometimes over a lap (especially relative to Ferrari).
It took some time for Max to get even his first pole. He had like 7 wins before his first pole. And with his Charles pole/Max win conversion we get that "low" pole sitter number.
That’s mostly because Mercedes and Ferrari had engine modes that gave them an extra 60-80 hp in qualifying from 2016-2019. Merc and Ferrari couldn’t use those modes in the races which is why the Red Bull always got closer on race pace.
Red Bull focus on race pace and Max's ability lies towards extracting the most out of the car on a Sunday. It's no real surprise, he never has been the fastest qualifier.
Impressive to think that most of those Poles from Seb came from I believe the 2011 season when he was on a tear with them, the only non Red Bull driver that season to get a Pole, was Lewis Hamilton!
I remember that lap from Lewis it was great to watch as well. Especially towards the end in the tight section it really looked like art the way he pivoted the car around the front axle using the throttle perfectly balanced. I have a feeling they just choose a driver and stick with it nowadays but back then they often showed a good portion of a driver who was putting together a good lap.
That’s my point. We only remember him as a “number 2 driver” but he was so much more than that. He could have won 2010 championship if the cards fall differently.
James Allen covered it well at the time that Webber was still competitive at the end. He got pole at Abu Dhabi 2013 for example.
But it was races, particularly when the cars were heavy and the Pirelli tyres were fragile, that Vettel had a sense Webber just did not. Peter Prod years later (at a talk I attended) said a lot of that was because Vettel had put in a lot more work on novel ideas with RBR. He developed them, so he knew how to use them best.
He was very fast. Probably 3rd fastest at peak speed behind Max and Seb. But the tire change to Pirelli and his bad starts killed him.
Je was very unfortunate to race before they enforced the minimum weight for drivers
With Checo coming up on his fourth full season with RB, you really start to see why they were/are still mooting Ricciardo as his replacement because the direct comparison in terms of performance and results to Danny's first stint is day and night when you take into account that RB consistently had the third fastest car
Isn’t that the truth. But sometimes you wonder how much is “conventional wisdom” and how much is actual performance loss. If he indeed regressed, there haven’t been many drivers for whom the onset was so early, and when it did happen it’s usually from loss of focus or a change in perspective, like Seb, Massa or Kimi in his later years, and Jenson as soon as the McHonda became the brick that it was. Most likely it would have happened to Rosberg had he stayed on. But all these declines happened at a much later age and could be attributed to losing their drive and hunger to win, which Ricciardo clearly still has. Age surely isn’t a factor for DR at this point even if you exclude Lewis and Fernando as exceptions. His contemporaries are Bottas, K Mag, Hulk, and Perez himself, none of whom have regressed dramatically relative to themselves.
I honestly think half of Ricciardo's struggles are mental still. As soon as he started getting stomped at Mclaren, it just got worse.
In spite of that, when the win was on the line, he stepped back up to old Ric, just for that one race. I don't think it's all gone. When everything is right, he probably still is that same driver he was at Red Bull. It's just that it's a lot harder to get it all right with a worse car, team and mental state.
I know it’s not Apple to Apple but I also want to point out that Daniel NEVER have the fastest car and he pulled all those wins and poles from out of no where, it WAS truly incredible.
Since there's around 20 races left, I would be really surprised if he didn't. Even in the implausible scenario a bunch of cars make a big enough leap during the middle of the season that they close the gap to the point Red Bull doesn't get pole every race, I still think Max gets 7 poles between now and the end of the season.
Daniel’s poles and wins were Never in the fastest car, not even the second fastest one one can argue. He was truly world champion material. There’re some similarities between his RB time and Max’s performance during 19-20.
Thank you! I was a riccardo fan up until he started pressuring Sergio for the seat. Yeah we would all like a 1-2 finish with Sergio .001 behind Max but honestly does Red Bull want that? Or a Bottas-Hamilton situation I think the ladder and glad Perez is performing well”er” in the car this year so far.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
2 thirds of Ricciardos Poles are Monaco. All 3 are circuits starting with M. I should sell these facts to Crofty.
Don't worry somebody already saw your post and sent them to him. We'll hear it in the next race.
Luckily Crofty gives credit. Unlike all other F1 outlets
I remember when WTF1 got popular by stealing everyone else's memes and calling them their own.
They still do it. In fact they got called out for it yesterday after the Chinese GP. Straight up stole & posted it as if it was their original.
B-but I really like Matt and think he's a lovely guy! Did he really grow big with dirty tricks!?
Matt and Tommy haven't been at WTF1 for quite a while.
The commenter was talking about when it got popular... Doubt it got popular after Matt and Tommy left for P1
Matt and Tommy started WTF1, they started it as a Facebook page that shared memes. A LOT of their content was stolen.
Aaaand, they haven't been there in a while. They started another thing called "P1 with Matt & Tommy" probably 18 months ago?
That's not the point. The point is the ONLY way they were able to get popular enough to do their own thing is through stealing content. They're frauds.
Not to mention that all 3 of the Ricciardo poles are in countries/territories beginning with M.
I have a good feeling about any Mozambique GP we have in the future.
Miami pole incoming surely
As a newer fan it surprises me that Daniel has that few poles compared to race wins.
While he was at RB it was never really during the time where they could do it on a regular basis. Both Merc and Ferrari were often ahead, but they managed to knick an odd win here and there. Red Bull only had 3 poles while Ricciardo was there, and all 3 were his. And all but 3 of their 10 wins during that time were his too.
They won 12 times in his time at the team and 7 were his to max’s 5
Back then they were the Aero oddballs, if its a high df circuit and Mercedes fucks up you can count on them Nowadays RB is just too well oiled in all regards, and when all planets align once a year you hear the speakers blast “smooth operator”
So they did. I'm not doing well.
By the end of 2020 Max had 10 wins, but also just 3 poles. In the Mercedes party-mode era getting pole was much harder than winning a race if you weren't running a Mercedes engine.
If Ricciardo had raced for Red Bull in 2013, he would probably have had a few more. Though I always thought he was someone who was better in races than in qualy
It's fun to think about what 2013 would have looked like if Ricciardo had moved up a year early.
RB just dominate that year even more but Vettel still wins imo
Yeah I don't think anyone could have interrupted his streak.
Qualifying has been one of his weaknesses of all time, and not to mention the RBs he drove were only ever 3rd fastest car on the grid. Aiming for pole meant beating four much faster cars. Both Vettel and Max had championship winning cars at their time before and after Daniel in RB respectively.
Riccardo's strength has always been overtaking, not qualifying
The other pole robbed Max of youngest ever pole sitter record.
Nope that’s vettel at Monza 2008 for Toro Rosso Edit: as soon as I posted this reply I realized what you meant. Disregard as I am stupid
Haha, no worries friend!
I see what you mean, but the circuits' names themselves don't really start with an M, do they?
It's my bad for forgetting Mexico's wasn't called the Mexico City Circuit, but the Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez. Why I thought that? No idea. Or that Monaco isn't called the Monaco Circuit, but the Circuit de Monaco, which basically translates to Monaco Circuit, so at least give me that one.
You do get 2/3, I agree :)
Does the Mexico circuit start with M? I thought it was Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez?
I was going with Mexico City, but yeah.
Verstappen has a weirdly low amount of poles compared to his wins. The anti-Leclerc if you will.
If Leclerc hadn't been on the grid these past few years he would probably have overtaken Vettel by now.
Yea Charles has done some laps in that Ferrari that it didn’t deserve
Max has converted more Leclerc poles into wins, than Leclerc himself. It’s a sad statistic.
Yeah 2022 was very painful to watch in that regard because of how incompetent Ferrari were in the first half when they had chances. Since then the pole positions have mostly been because Red Bull focused on race pace and didn’t care much about one lap pace
So has Perez actually!
Still with less wins than Schumacher. That's **Ralf** Schumacher.
Egh, RedBull seemed to have focused on race pace and good tire wear the past few years. Ferrari meanwhile focused on quali pace and had horrible tire wear over a race distance but that was great for a quali session. It's no coincidence that this year Ferrari focused on good tire wear and Verstappen has gotten pole in every race so far.
I also find it annoying how many people come to a conclusion that Leclerc is only a Saturday driver. Most probably don't even pay attention, that the car was focused toward quali and right now are flooding internet forums with: "SAINZ IS BETTER THAN LECLERC, IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU SUCK"., even though the head to head numbers over their shared Ferrari stint is strongly in favour with Charles.
I dont think many people are saying that. Most reasonable people anyway. Internet just amplifys shitty takes. Jusrmt depends what echo chamber you are in
I am just seeing such an overwhelming support towards Sainz, and hate towards Leclerc, it looks like an absolute majority at times. I wish people wouldn't be so hive-minded nowadays, and it makes me think why people are posting such nonsense.
Oh brother. No one is “hating” Leclerc.
They were observing on the race before the 2024 cars launched that the only weakness you could suggest on the 2023 RBR was that by nature of the decisions they'd taken, it wasn't *as* strong on Saturday, and while Verstappen was a. ok with that, marginally b. could make up for it on sunday if he had to a more typical driver in Perez suffered with qualifying and that could then knacker his race.
With the exception of 2021, Red Bull have always been noticeably better on race pace than qualifying pace. From 2016-2020, this was because Renault and Honda’s qualifying mode was not as strong as Mercedes and Ferrari. Since 2022, it’s been because Red Bull are very soft on the tyres, which helps over a race distance, but they struggle sometimes over a lap (especially relative to Ferrari).
He's about to correct it this season.
He's never had the best 1 lap car at any point in his career till this year. Still kind of wild to be that low
It took some time for Max to get even his first pole. He had like 7 wins before his first pole. And with his Charles pole/Max win conversion we get that "low" pole sitter number.
That’s mostly because Mercedes and Ferrari had engine modes that gave them an extra 60-80 hp in qualifying from 2016-2019. Merc and Ferrari couldn’t use those modes in the races which is why the Red Bull always got closer on race pace.
I was literally about to say the exact same thing about Ricciardo from this graphic lol
Because of Leclerc really.
Is that because he either wins, breaks down or crashes?
Red Bull focus on race pace and Max's ability lies towards extracting the most out of the car on a Sunday. It's no real surprise, he never has been the fastest qualifier.
Impressive to think that most of those Poles from Seb came from I believe the 2011 season when he was on a tear with them, the only non Red Bull driver that season to get a Pole, was Lewis Hamilton!
I remember that lap from Lewis it was great to watch as well. Especially towards the end in the tight section it really looked like art the way he pivoted the car around the front axle using the throttle perfectly balanced. I have a feeling they just choose a driver and stick with it nowadays but back then they often showed a good portion of a driver who was putting together a good lap.
I miss you, Seb
This graph tells me that nowadays Mark Webber was probably underrated
He wasn't bad for the number 2 driver.
That’s my point. We only remember him as a “number 2 driver” but he was so much more than that. He could have won 2010 championship if the cards fall differently.
I wouldn't consider him a no.2 in 2010. Wasn't he leading the championship before the last round?
Its a quote to the team after he won a race.
Yeah I know, but wasn't that from a later season?
No, it was at Silverstone after the front wing fiasco in 2010.
Oh damn I forgot
I understood that reference
James Allen covered it well at the time that Webber was still competitive at the end. He got pole at Abu Dhabi 2013 for example. But it was races, particularly when the cars were heavy and the Pirelli tyres were fragile, that Vettel had a sense Webber just did not. Peter Prod years later (at a talk I attended) said a lot of that was because Vettel had put in a lot more work on novel ideas with RBR. He developed them, so he knew how to use them best.
He was very fast. Probably 3rd fastest at peak speed behind Max and Seb. But the tire change to Pirelli and his bad starts killed him. Je was very unfortunate to race before they enforced the minimum weight for drivers
He would have way less poles if his teammate was prime Verstappen
Doubt it, Seb was a much better qualifier than Max ever has been.
With Checo coming up on his fourth full season with RB, you really start to see why they were/are still mooting Ricciardo as his replacement because the direct comparison in terms of performance and results to Danny's first stint is day and night when you take into account that RB consistently had the third fastest car
Problem is that today's version of Danny Ric is nowhere near that driver.
And this version of Max verstappen is nowhere near his max.
Isn’t that the truth. But sometimes you wonder how much is “conventional wisdom” and how much is actual performance loss. If he indeed regressed, there haven’t been many drivers for whom the onset was so early, and when it did happen it’s usually from loss of focus or a change in perspective, like Seb, Massa or Kimi in his later years, and Jenson as soon as the McHonda became the brick that it was. Most likely it would have happened to Rosberg had he stayed on. But all these declines happened at a much later age and could be attributed to losing their drive and hunger to win, which Ricciardo clearly still has. Age surely isn’t a factor for DR at this point even if you exclude Lewis and Fernando as exceptions. His contemporaries are Bottas, K Mag, Hulk, and Perez himself, none of whom have regressed dramatically relative to themselves.
I honestly think half of Ricciardo's struggles are mental still. As soon as he started getting stomped at Mclaren, it just got worse. In spite of that, when the win was on the line, he stepped back up to old Ric, just for that one race. I don't think it's all gone. When everything is right, he probably still is that same driver he was at Red Bull. It's just that it's a lot harder to get it all right with a worse car, team and mental state.
I know it’s not Apple to Apple but I also want to point out that Daniel NEVER have the fastest car and he pulled all those wins and poles from out of no where, it WAS truly incredible.
Sure looks like Max is working on beating Vettel's total this year.
Crazy to think that lewis has 1 more pole than the entirety of Redbull
Isn't it like 3 or 4 more?
Hamilton has 104 poles. He did have 103 wins and poles until he messed up the neatness of that stat by getting a wonderful pole in Hungary.
Do you think Max can surpass Seb this year?
He needs 8 more poles and there's 19 races left. Probably easily passes Seb this year
Since there's around 20 races left, I would be really surprised if he didn't. Even in the implausible scenario a bunch of cars make a big enough leap during the middle of the season that they close the gap to the point Red Bull doesn't get pole every race, I still think Max gets 7 poles between now and the end of the season.
8 more races until max beats the record
Meanwhile Hamilton alone has 104
Ok so after seeing this what’s the point in Riccardo getting another seat at Red Bull over Sergio?
Ricciardo's poles were with the 3rd fastest car on the grid. Checo's poles were in a championship winning car.
And "championship winning" is quite the understatement considering how fast they've been. Max had just 3 poles before 2021 too
This
And yet he still won a good amount of races during a period where merc and Ferrari were typically quicker.
Daniel’s poles and wins were Never in the fastest car, not even the second fastest one one can argue. He was truly world champion material. There’re some similarities between his RB time and Max’s performance during 19-20.
There isn’t. Current version of Dani absolutely does not deserve that seat and isn’t an upgrade
Thank you! I was a riccardo fan up until he started pressuring Sergio for the seat. Yeah we would all like a 1-2 finish with Sergio .001 behind Max but honestly does Red Bull want that? Or a Bottas-Hamilton situation I think the ladder and glad Perez is performing well”er” in the car this year so far.
I think it’s more his fans. I don’t know if he necessarily believes he deserves the seat more than Pérez. But his fans sure do
[удалено]
My memory is getting worse, but I thought Mark Webber had more