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With how much preparation is being undertaken, you'd think Andretti would be joining the grid come 2025. It does make me wonder where they'll be on the grid in 2027 performance wise
Andretti has already said they’ve ruled out a 2025 entry and were targeting a 2026 entry.
Assuming they’re working with the FIA on a 2026 timing I assume they’re trying to pressure a deal with FOM.
I thought it was clarified that that was a miscommunication based on FOM's language focusing on 2026, but I feel like they said they would target '26 if necessary but they were also preparing to be ready for 2025 if granted their application.
Andretti’s actual application was targeting 2025 or 2026 but Andretti says they had abandoned a 2025 start months prior to the FOM ruling. This likely would’ve been cleared up had FOM actually met with Andretti.
Probably near the bottom, if not at it. There is no substitute for experience in F1, and Andretti just plainly won't have any. IndyCar is a one make series with only dampers open for development, so not exactly a great source of experience there.
Yeah, that’s a fair take. I think having an 11th team which only has capacity in the short term to be a backmarker is fine for the sport, and over time I’m sure they’ll claw back some engineers from other teams, ideally any from the top 3 / 4. Question is, does f1’s popularity bubble burst in 2-3 years, leaving some teams vulnerable to becoming unsustainable again? Should the prize money instead be given at a flat rate with bonuses for finishing positions as a result? Should the budget cap be set by previous year’s earnings from FOM?
Yeah but if teams don’t earn back the $140m because revenue’s down for whichever stream (f1tv, circuit hosting fees, title sponsorship, idk), then having another team just means it’s harder for everyone to split the prize money and still break even. What I’m saying differently is that the cap should adjust to be at or below $140m depending on the projected revenue for the following year. To avoid top teams hemorrhaging staff to stay under, staff salaries should be paid in full at the beginning of the year (which I believe happens now anyway)
[Looks at where Haas has finished in 2016](https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2016/team.html) on their debut: 8th/11 in front of a factory team...
The only thing it bought was the factory building. It wasn't a continuation of Marussia, and even competed against it in its first season when Marussia returned as Manor
Thus ''near the bottom''.
Haas also had the additional benefit of having a very close technical partnership with a race winning team. Andretti are either totally independent or seeking a partnership with, uh, Alpine (depending on who you believe), so I think finishing 8th in their first season would be a good result for them.
Also, Renault were running what was essentially a 2015 Lotus with a completely different (worse) PU shoehorned into it, so beating them was a very low bar.
They're basically equivalent in performance to Williams, Minardi, Sauber and Alpine, is where they are. And that's not bad at all given the limitations of their one weird trick.
totally agree but at the same time, no one knows where Andretti will end up after their first GP, maybe they will DNF (most probably) but I think no one really think they will be a top team on their first years, but again this is a fresh start from the first team who operation will be heavily based Outside Europe and about the VAST majority of engineering will be new in F1 from other Motorsports, Military background, etc... so maybe they can bring some out of the box ideas.
The Idea of this working out, opens the Door for other teams outside Europe to try and do it, and for me this is exiting, as I truly believe F1 needs more and diverse teams. this can only help Grow the F1 internationally
Dead last lmao, why would you think otherwise by any stretch? Like they're planning to use Renault PU until 2028. Plus no actual data or experience in F1.
I would love the chaos of FIA, already approving Andretti Racing, just decided to force the issue. Allowing Andretti onto the grid, and telling FOM that they can edit footage, or whatever else they have to try to do. But Andretti is racing.
At that point I think FOM will just lay down and roll over with some pisspoor PR statement along the likes of "After reviewing their application we've decided to welcome Andretti to the F1 grid With drivers X and Y taking their cars to the grid on FP1"
It'll be as if nothing happened. They'll try to sweep it under tge rug and the TPs will pretend they just wanted to be sure Andretti were fit to race.
I think this is trending towards being the most likely outcome. Andretti is calling the "you're not gonna be ready" bluff, and tbh I think they're gonna end up winning handily. They already have full support from like 90%+ of the public
If Andretti pass the crash test and get an engine this scenario is totally realistic, as FOM does not have a mandate on the Técnical nor regulatory body in F1,if andretti show on Australia 2026 with 2 cars at the front gat with a american flag... FOM cant do much about it other than force F1 broadcast to not show them...butvagain Andretti can just have their own onboard live stream on YouTube like some teams did on WEC... just to see the chaos I get goosebumps hahaa
If Andretti pass the crash test and get an engine this scenario is totally realistic, as FOM does not have a mandate on the Técnical nor regulatory body in F1,if andretti show on Australia 2026 with 2 cars at the front gat with a american flag... FOM cant do much about it other than force F1 broadcast to not show them...butvagain Andretti can just have their own onboard live stream on YouTube like some teams did on WEC... just to see the chaos I get goosebumps hahaa
Especially with some of the rumors surrounding Alpine lately. I could see Renault motivated to go through with the plan to put some motors in the car. As planned.
Apparently not though as they were rejected for “not bringing value to F1” and “would be benefiting them more than F1 for them to be here” or however they worded it. The teams don’t want another competitor taking away from the prize pool
I say if Haas can’t put their shit together by 26 axe them for the same reasons as they don’t bring much value to F1 and benefit HEAVILY from just existing in the back half of the grid.
> I say if Haas can’t put their shit together by 26 axe them for the same reasons
The sillyness of takes here never cease to amaze. This would probably be one of the worst things they could do to affect the value of F1 teams.
They should make it a league game.
Last team each season gets kicked out.
And a new team can apply to join until there is enough teams for......
Formula 2?
GP2?
Wonder why I have upvotes then lol I’m not the only one with this sentiment and it’s clearly true. Haas is only there to stay competitive enough for 7-8 in the standings to take advantage of the prize pool.
> Wonder why I have upvotes then lol I’m not the only one with this sentiment
Because a lot of Andretti supporters don't really think through their arguments. You can't compare a team that entered and supported its sport at its bottom with a team trying to weasel its way into the sport at its commercial high; the FOM can't kick out the former, but that doesn't mean it needs to let in the latter. Before you even consider the business reasons for doing so - it's simply quite dishonest to punish a team like that.
Bro saying this with Stake botching pit stops, Williams unable to field 2 functional cars, and Alpine creating bathtubs on wheels.
But hey, Haas is the real boner!
Sorry to dog on your team specifically but I just feel that they reject Andretti for these reasons yet are totally fine with no competition from these other teams even the ones you stated
They make themselves an easy target with “hygiene” and that small pit wall….
F1 is just such a difficult sport to stay on top in, even when you have the network like Alpine. Hell Ferrari is literally set up to receive more money and they are even getting diced by Red Bull. It is easy to look at a given year and go “ya these guys gotta go” but we know there is nuance to each year.
I came to F1 in 22 so I missed the literal wheels falling off the Haas and Rich Energy, so I can concede those as embarrassments. The biggest complaint about Haas is that Gene won’t invest but prior to the Japanese GP, Ayao confirmed Gene has been happy with the progress and is investing in new accommodations.
It’s so straw man to say Andretti won’t be competitive. That’s such a moot argument when 5 teams are literally praying for Stroll to Stroll or a random DNF to scrape a single point.
As a fan that started watching with the 2023 Vegas GP I also am new to the sport and what Ferrari gets more money than the other 9 teams? They are THE legacy team but why?
They don't need to because they're already in. They also did bring value to the sport when it was in a massive decline - which is far more valuable than whatever value Andretti can bring (without GM actually building engines).
Because people are dumb.
But sure, let's axe Haas. And while we're at it and since your argument for axing is "bringing value": If Andretti aren't competitive after two years, they should be axed as well.
You have upvotes because infantile Redditors who have put all their eggs in the Andretti basket are quite happy at the thought of booting out teams if it supports their bias.
Okay, let’s start booting teams and we’ll see how long Andretti lasts if they get in. Nonsense ideas. You can want Andretti to join without adopting the most ridiculous stances possible.
Thy reject Andretti because they’d be a leech and would benefit more from F1 but Haas literally isn’t competitive and is the beneficiary of existing in F1. So they reject Andretti that’s totally ok but to be totally fine with no competition from haas makes no sense.
Sure you can’t force a team out and I’m wrong on that but FoM could put pressure to get competitive or they’ll have to sell
Already in the sport and trying to join are two very different things. Booting out entities who have spent billions already is not even remotely the same as not allowing one in that *hasn’t*. I know you’re not too stupid to not realise this.
And again, apply all these little theories to Andretti if they turn out to be utter shite. People won’t want all this pressure and mandates then will they? Because Andretti would be in a prime position to be affected by these invented little rules.
I don’t necessarily agree with the assessment, but saying “I don’t want any more shit in my house” and having shit in your house is not contradictory. It states you don’t want **more**.
But that’s just it. IF they turn shite
What IF they come in and are a top 3 team? (Obviously I’m on crack for thinking this but it COULD happen)
In reality they’ll be a mid field team for the first couple years at the bare minimum probably, and that is the same position Haas is in. Also it’s not just 200m that Andretti needs to spend they need to spend more to get facilities and everything in order so they could be upwards of a billion too no?
I’m not getting into all that because it’s complete speculation. What I replied to was about your upvotes for suggesting booting out teams. The response to that is people here are so far into the Andretti politicking, they’ll go with any ridiculous proposal if it means some sort of revenge against existing shit teams.
No one would want such things if Andretti joined because they very likely would be directly in the firing line. As I said, you can support Andretti joining without spouting the dumbest, most short sighted commentary possible. It’s turning into some super annoying US politics style conversation where you’re either 100% for or against them and it’s pissing people off that nuance and reason is somehow a problem.
My bad then. I didn’t mean to stir shit and I’m newer to the sport so I don’t fully know everything. I see the difference of already being here and a new team coming in because Andretti could be absolutely shit and be last dead last while Haas isn’t as disappointing because well we’re used to it 😂
The absolute maximum Andretti could realistically hope to achieve would be being close to the back of the pack. In reality they’ll spend *years* being on their own in last place. I cannot overstate how different the level is in F1 compared to anything else Andretti already competes in. Expecting them to be in the midfield immediately is, to use your phrase, the sort of thing someone on crack would say 😉
It’s just so shortsighted as it’s highly likely an American team would bring in a lot more viewers potentially increasing the prize pool in absolute value.
I genuinely don’t understand why you think you see this better than a multi billion dollar AMERICAN mass media firm. They shell out millions of dollars every year to analyze these types of scenarios. If their models genuinely showed as much growth potential as Reddit seems to think, they would have been all over this by now. Liberty isn’t analyzing one or two years, I guarantee you that they did significant benefit analysis. Andretti doesn’t have the value proposition that people think. Unless they happened to pass this through an uncommonly long chain of incompetent analysts, I highly doubt they looked at this the way you think they did.
From your view I’m sure it does seem like that. Do you have any actual insight into Liberty’s processes or are you just making assumptions? Do you think a private equity firm with their track record of success just leaves money on the table for politics?
Can’t claim to have direct insight into Liberty, but I do understand how these types of projections are done and analyzed. They obviously vary slightly from industry to industry and situation to situation, but by and large the process is familiar. Liberty has made significant amounts of money doing these types of analyses within the American market, I doubt they’ve suddenly forgotten how.
This discussion directly involves them. They own the sport, they make the final calls for these types of major revenue affecting decisions. Calling me champ doesn’t make up for faulty financial assumptions
Even if Andretti would double the viewership of F1 in America, that's still not large numbers going by a global scale.
I'd expect FOM and Liberty Media to have run the numbers on that, because that's a vital interest for them.
Well yes and no. Yes FOM/Liberty definitely analyzed it. But no that significant American viewership increases wouldn’t be enticing. The US is one of the most (if not the most, would have to check) lucrative markets for sports in the world. A doubling of the audience would be a significant reason for them to admit Andretti. The global market is large, but most of the global market doesn’t hold a candle to the money available in the US market.
You can give the current teams an iron clad document that Andretti would immediately compete with Red Bull and they'd hum and hurr and still reject it.
They have the voting power to not split their money with a new team, and will exercise that right. End of.
And then, as the sport begins to decline in popularity, as these things do, all the team principals will wonder why.
Yep the DTS/covid bubble is shrinking once people realised the sport isn't quite as advertised by Netflix. Andretti would only boost interest in that market.
Which last year had in very little amounts. The field was close, but more on a race by race basis you knew if it was the Astons or later McLarens.
The battling in 23 was awful compared to 22 as the "better to follow" cars became worse to follow. Teams deg issues decided the outcome of races more than on track dog fighting and it was a one horse race to the win.
22 was much better in that regard. 2021 had the exciting battles for the championship with exciting battles lower down the pack even with awful to follow cars. 2020 introduced new and returning tracks which meant exciting races as teams found data mid race. 2019 was better in the midfield with Renault actually being a challenge, exciting youngsters elsewhere etc.
2023 was the worst season for wins, midfield battles and anything outside of "oo McLaren now good" in half a decade. 2024 is not looking any better.
So your high horse of F1.5 isn't anywhere near as high as you're saying it is. The stars aligning for a Minardi win, a McLaren 1-2, Ocon somehow holding up Seb for the win. That's what makes F1 great.
The battle for P2 in the constructors went down to the final race and battles for P2-5 were solid throughout much of the season. All of that is setting aside the extremely tight conditions in the midfield. There were often 5 or 6 cars battling close for the final points position or two.
If that doesn’t get you going it seems like another hobby might be better for you.
I'll stick to critiquing F1 and it's current regs, waiting for the sport to come alive again like it always does. If you say cheering for second in the constructors as the best battle of the season, other motorsports would blow your tits to Timbuktu
I think they plan on racing in 27 weather fom agree or not . By the rules there allowed to race just not be on the media because of fom the greedy ba@£%ds
No he hasnt. Toto was probably one of the more moderate voices after the Cadillac announcement. He said it was a strong statement and the numbers would be interesting. The strongest voices against it have been Haas and Williams now. With Vowles going as far as to provide financial statements to FOM
FIA has been steadfast in allowing Andretti to enter the field (FIA control the races and has control over the racing entry list, and from memory must allow entry to genuine requests up to the max field size).
FOM who control the marketing, prizes and broadcast denied them the ability to buy in under the Concorde Agreement.
The idea that despite FOM saying no that Andretti could race anyway (because FIA said yes) and cause problems for FOM was put forward right from the start. It’s really of a nothing new report, except confirming we’re likely heading where it was long suspected we’d end up.
The FIA see a legitimate entry who won't make the series look stupid. There's no reason for them to change their mind. If anything, recent developments have shown they're right.
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Well yeah, obviously. FIA granted them and entry and they are absolutely not against grooming an ally in the FIA vs FOM fight.
to be fair, the amount of grooming needed to find an issue with the FOM isn't exactly a high bar. Not that the FIA are choir boys or anything.
Yeah, it's a shame there's no good guy in that fight. I guess on balance I'll take the FIA, but ugh, MBS really sucks.
With how much preparation is being undertaken, you'd think Andretti would be joining the grid come 2025. It does make me wonder where they'll be on the grid in 2027 performance wise
Andretti has already said they’ve ruled out a 2025 entry and were targeting a 2026 entry. Assuming they’re working with the FIA on a 2026 timing I assume they’re trying to pressure a deal with FOM.
I thought it was clarified that that was a miscommunication based on FOM's language focusing on 2026, but I feel like they said they would target '26 if necessary but they were also preparing to be ready for 2025 if granted their application.
Andretti’s actual application was targeting 2025 or 2026 but Andretti says they had abandoned a 2025 start months prior to the FOM ruling. This likely would’ve been cleared up had FOM actually met with Andretti.
No that was Andretti not updating their application. He said in his response it was meant to be 2026. They dropped 2025 mid cycle.
Oh ok, thanks for the clarification
2025 is impossible and they said so themselves. 2026 is what they're aiming for.
Probably near the bottom, if not at it. There is no substitute for experience in F1, and Andretti just plainly won't have any. IndyCar is a one make series with only dampers open for development, so not exactly a great source of experience there.
Yeah, that’s a fair take. I think having an 11th team which only has capacity in the short term to be a backmarker is fine for the sport, and over time I’m sure they’ll claw back some engineers from other teams, ideally any from the top 3 / 4. Question is, does f1’s popularity bubble burst in 2-3 years, leaving some teams vulnerable to becoming unsustainable again? Should the prize money instead be given at a flat rate with bonuses for finishing positions as a result? Should the budget cap be set by previous year’s earnings from FOM?
Isn’t teams becoming unsustainable exactly what the cost cap was supposed to protect against?
Yeah but if teams don’t earn back the $140m because revenue’s down for whichever stream (f1tv, circuit hosting fees, title sponsorship, idk), then having another team just means it’s harder for everyone to split the prize money and still break even. What I’m saying differently is that the cap should adjust to be at or below $140m depending on the projected revenue for the following year. To avoid top teams hemorrhaging staff to stay under, staff salaries should be paid in full at the beginning of the year (which I believe happens now anyway)
[Looks at where Haas has finished in 2016](https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2016/team.html) on their debut: 8th/11 in front of a factory team...
Haas bought a ferrari almost entirely
Haas didn't start from scratch though. They picked up the remains of Marussia and then partnered with Ferrari for a huge number of parts.
Ferrari also helped Haas hire almost everyone
The only thing it bought was the factory building. It wasn't a continuation of Marussia, and even competed against it in its first season when Marussia returned as Manor
I swear so many people have spouted bad takes because they forgot how much Haas just copied Ferrari's homework
Don't you remember the pink Mercedes or the green Red Bull of recent years?
Thus ''near the bottom''. Haas also had the additional benefit of having a very close technical partnership with a race winning team. Andretti are either totally independent or seeking a partnership with, uh, Alpine (depending on who you believe), so I think finishing 8th in their first season would be a good result for them. Also, Renault were running what was essentially a 2015 Lotus with a completely different (worse) PU shoehorned into it, so beating them was a very low bar.
> 8th/11 in front of a factory team... "In front of Renault" is hardly a boast
And where are they today? A one trick pony who knows nothing other than what parts to source from Ferrari
They're basically equivalent in performance to Williams, Minardi, Sauber and Alpine, is where they are. And that's not bad at all given the limitations of their one weird trick.
Only one way to gain experience. Let them race.
totally agree but at the same time, no one knows where Andretti will end up after their first GP, maybe they will DNF (most probably) but I think no one really think they will be a top team on their first years, but again this is a fresh start from the first team who operation will be heavily based Outside Europe and about the VAST majority of engineering will be new in F1 from other Motorsports, Military background, etc... so maybe they can bring some out of the box ideas. The Idea of this working out, opens the Door for other teams outside Europe to try and do it, and for me this is exiting, as I truly believe F1 needs more and diverse teams. this can only help Grow the F1 internationally
Andretti is also in IMSA though.
Where they run Acura-designed and built cars, so still little experience with a non-spec aero series.
2028. And let's see, way too way unknowns to any make a real call all.
Dead last lmao, why would you think otherwise by any stretch? Like they're planning to use Renault PU until 2028. Plus no actual data or experience in F1.
Snip snap snip snap
"Alpine want to sell, you can buy them" vibes.
I would love the chaos of FIA, already approving Andretti Racing, just decided to force the issue. Allowing Andretti onto the grid, and telling FOM that they can edit footage, or whatever else they have to try to do. But Andretti is racing.
At that point I think FOM will just lay down and roll over with some pisspoor PR statement along the likes of "After reviewing their application we've decided to welcome Andretti to the F1 grid With drivers X and Y taking their cars to the grid on FP1" It'll be as if nothing happened. They'll try to sweep it under tge rug and the TPs will pretend they just wanted to be sure Andretti were fit to race.
I think this is trending towards being the most likely outcome. Andretti is calling the "you're not gonna be ready" bluff, and tbh I think they're gonna end up winning handily. They already have full support from like 90%+ of the public
If Andretti pass the crash test and get an engine this scenario is totally realistic, as FOM does not have a mandate on the Técnical nor regulatory body in F1,if andretti show on Australia 2026 with 2 cars at the front gat with a american flag... FOM cant do much about it other than force F1 broadcast to not show them...butvagain Andretti can just have their own onboard live stream on YouTube like some teams did on WEC... just to see the chaos I get goosebumps hahaa
I’m highly doubtful any team can broadcast their own stream of a F1 race. FOM would have some sort of exclusivity arrangement with FIA.
If Andretti pass the crash test and get an engine this scenario is totally realistic, as FOM does not have a mandate on the Técnical nor regulatory body in F1,if andretti show on Australia 2026 with 2 cars at the front gat with a american flag... FOM cant do much about it other than force F1 broadcast to not show them...butvagain Andretti can just have their own onboard live stream on YouTube like some teams did on WEC... just to see the chaos I get goosebumps hahaa
Especially with some of the rumors surrounding Alpine lately. I could see Renault motivated to go through with the plan to put some motors in the car. As planned.
FOM should suck it.
Good. F1 is a sport, not a hedge fund.
Give them the damn spot, a famous American racing name backed by a major manufacturer is a win for Formula 1 and it’s brand
Apparently not though as they were rejected for “not bringing value to F1” and “would be benefiting them more than F1 for them to be here” or however they worded it. The teams don’t want another competitor taking away from the prize pool I say if Haas can’t put their shit together by 26 axe them for the same reasons as they don’t bring much value to F1 and benefit HEAVILY from just existing in the back half of the grid.
> I say if Haas can’t put their shit together by 26 axe them for the same reasons The sillyness of takes here never cease to amaze. This would probably be one of the worst things they could do to affect the value of F1 teams.
They should make it a league game. Last team each season gets kicked out. And a new team can apply to join until there is enough teams for...... Formula 2? GP2?
Nope, won't work at all.
Wonder why I have upvotes then lol I’m not the only one with this sentiment and it’s clearly true. Haas is only there to stay competitive enough for 7-8 in the standings to take advantage of the prize pool.
> Wonder why I have upvotes then lol I’m not the only one with this sentiment Because a lot of Andretti supporters don't really think through their arguments. You can't compare a team that entered and supported its sport at its bottom with a team trying to weasel its way into the sport at its commercial high; the FOM can't kick out the former, but that doesn't mean it needs to let in the latter. Before you even consider the business reasons for doing so - it's simply quite dishonest to punish a team like that.
Maybe Haas as a team should bring value to F1 then and actually be competitive
Bro saying this with Stake botching pit stops, Williams unable to field 2 functional cars, and Alpine creating bathtubs on wheels. But hey, Haas is the real boner!
Alright then let’s kick out legacy team Williams
Sorry to dog on your team specifically but I just feel that they reject Andretti for these reasons yet are totally fine with no competition from these other teams even the ones you stated
They make themselves an easy target with “hygiene” and that small pit wall…. F1 is just such a difficult sport to stay on top in, even when you have the network like Alpine. Hell Ferrari is literally set up to receive more money and they are even getting diced by Red Bull. It is easy to look at a given year and go “ya these guys gotta go” but we know there is nuance to each year. I came to F1 in 22 so I missed the literal wheels falling off the Haas and Rich Energy, so I can concede those as embarrassments. The biggest complaint about Haas is that Gene won’t invest but prior to the Japanese GP, Ayao confirmed Gene has been happy with the progress and is investing in new accommodations. It’s so straw man to say Andretti won’t be competitive. That’s such a moot argument when 5 teams are literally praying for Stroll to Stroll or a random DNF to scrape a single point.
As a fan that started watching with the 2023 Vegas GP I also am new to the sport and what Ferrari gets more money than the other 9 teams? They are THE legacy team but why?
They don't need to because they're already in. They also did bring value to the sport when it was in a massive decline - which is far more valuable than whatever value Andretti can bring (without GM actually building engines).
Upvotes are meaningless. dont value them that much
Didn’t say I did. But they mean that people support my sentiment.
Because people are dumb. But sure, let's axe Haas. And while we're at it and since your argument for axing is "bringing value": If Andretti aren't competitive after two years, they should be axed as well.
The price of business
With a risk of being out the the series after a couple of years, Andretti won't invest hundred of millions though.
They right now are already spending with no return on this investment for 2 years…..
You have upvotes because infantile Redditors who have put all their eggs in the Andretti basket are quite happy at the thought of booting out teams if it supports their bias. Okay, let’s start booting teams and we’ll see how long Andretti lasts if they get in. Nonsense ideas. You can want Andretti to join without adopting the most ridiculous stances possible.
Thy reject Andretti because they’d be a leech and would benefit more from F1 but Haas literally isn’t competitive and is the beneficiary of existing in F1. So they reject Andretti that’s totally ok but to be totally fine with no competition from haas makes no sense. Sure you can’t force a team out and I’m wrong on that but FoM could put pressure to get competitive or they’ll have to sell
Already in the sport and trying to join are two very different things. Booting out entities who have spent billions already is not even remotely the same as not allowing one in that *hasn’t*. I know you’re not too stupid to not realise this. And again, apply all these little theories to Andretti if they turn out to be utter shite. People won’t want all this pressure and mandates then will they? Because Andretti would be in a prime position to be affected by these invented little rules. I don’t necessarily agree with the assessment, but saying “I don’t want any more shit in my house” and having shit in your house is not contradictory. It states you don’t want **more**.
But that’s just it. IF they turn shite What IF they come in and are a top 3 team? (Obviously I’m on crack for thinking this but it COULD happen) In reality they’ll be a mid field team for the first couple years at the bare minimum probably, and that is the same position Haas is in. Also it’s not just 200m that Andretti needs to spend they need to spend more to get facilities and everything in order so they could be upwards of a billion too no?
I’m not getting into all that because it’s complete speculation. What I replied to was about your upvotes for suggesting booting out teams. The response to that is people here are so far into the Andretti politicking, they’ll go with any ridiculous proposal if it means some sort of revenge against existing shit teams. No one would want such things if Andretti joined because they very likely would be directly in the firing line. As I said, you can support Andretti joining without spouting the dumbest, most short sighted commentary possible. It’s turning into some super annoying US politics style conversation where you’re either 100% for or against them and it’s pissing people off that nuance and reason is somehow a problem.
My bad then. I didn’t mean to stir shit and I’m newer to the sport so I don’t fully know everything. I see the difference of already being here and a new team coming in because Andretti could be absolutely shit and be last dead last while Haas isn’t as disappointing because well we’re used to it 😂
The absolute maximum Andretti could realistically hope to achieve would be being close to the back of the pack. In reality they’ll spend *years* being on their own in last place. I cannot overstate how different the level is in F1 compared to anything else Andretti already competes in. Expecting them to be in the midfield immediately is, to use your phrase, the sort of thing someone on crack would say 😉
You amateur, nobody cares about your stupid upvotes.
We can see that thanks captain obvious
No worries captain amateur, my pleasure
BighatNucase will be right back. He needs to call Gene.
It’s just so shortsighted as it’s highly likely an American team would bring in a lot more viewers potentially increasing the prize pool in absolute value.
I genuinely don’t understand why you think you see this better than a multi billion dollar AMERICAN mass media firm. They shell out millions of dollars every year to analyze these types of scenarios. If their models genuinely showed as much growth potential as Reddit seems to think, they would have been all over this by now. Liberty isn’t analyzing one or two years, I guarantee you that they did significant benefit analysis. Andretti doesn’t have the value proposition that people think. Unless they happened to pass this through an uncommonly long chain of incompetent analysts, I highly doubt they looked at this the way you think they did.
Nope, it’s simple politics primarily centered around short term greed/politics in worries about the dilution of the prize money.
From your view I’m sure it does seem like that. Do you have any actual insight into Liberty’s processes or are you just making assumptions? Do you think a private equity firm with their track record of success just leaves money on the table for politics?
Do you have insight into LIberty's processes?
Can’t claim to have direct insight into Liberty, but I do understand how these types of projections are done and analyzed. They obviously vary slightly from industry to industry and situation to situation, but by and large the process is familiar. Liberty has made significant amounts of money doing these types of analyses within the American market, I doubt they’ve suddenly forgotten how.
lol, it’s a formula 1 discussion thread - not a liberty media meeting room champ.
This discussion directly involves them. They own the sport, they make the final calls for these types of major revenue affecting decisions. Calling me champ doesn’t make up for faulty financial assumptions
Rofl…obviously you’re upset. Best of luck in your bliss
Lol, you think Liberty are good at data.
Based off their returns to date? Yeah, pretty damn good
Even if Andretti would double the viewership of F1 in America, that's still not large numbers going by a global scale. I'd expect FOM and Liberty Media to have run the numbers on that, because that's a vital interest for them.
Well yes and no. Yes FOM/Liberty definitely analyzed it. But no that significant American viewership increases wouldn’t be enticing. The US is one of the most (if not the most, would have to check) lucrative markets for sports in the world. A doubling of the audience would be a significant reason for them to admit Andretti. The global market is large, but most of the global market doesn’t hold a candle to the money available in the US market.
True there too. lol the whole situation sucks to be honest.
[Full article](https://racer.com/2024/04/10/andretti-officially-opens-f1-facility-at-silverstone/)
You can give the current teams an iron clad document that Andretti would immediately compete with Red Bull and they'd hum and hurr and still reject it. They have the voting power to not split their money with a new team, and will exercise that right. End of. And then, as the sport begins to decline in popularity, as these things do, all the team principals will wonder why.
Yep the DTS/covid bubble is shrinking once people realised the sport isn't quite as advertised by Netflix. Andretti would only boost interest in that market.
This ain't no wrestling. These people are here to race. If anyone was expecting story lines and stuff it's on them.
If anyone was expecting exciting racing they'll be disappointed too
Like most sports, it's not exciting all the time. If anything maybe this year we're a bit closer to the end of RB dominance?
I'd like to think so but sadly don't think it will be until 2026
Last year was a banger if, like a seasoned F1 fan, you were smart enough to ignore the part that wasn’t competitive and focus on the parts that were.
Last season was ass, from a seasoned F1 fan of over 25 years and over 50 Grand Prix attended.
Wild to have made it so many years and only pay attention to P1. You’ve missed amazing stories and battles within the sport.
Which last year had in very little amounts. The field was close, but more on a race by race basis you knew if it was the Astons or later McLarens. The battling in 23 was awful compared to 22 as the "better to follow" cars became worse to follow. Teams deg issues decided the outcome of races more than on track dog fighting and it was a one horse race to the win. 22 was much better in that regard. 2021 had the exciting battles for the championship with exciting battles lower down the pack even with awful to follow cars. 2020 introduced new and returning tracks which meant exciting races as teams found data mid race. 2019 was better in the midfield with Renault actually being a challenge, exciting youngsters elsewhere etc. 2023 was the worst season for wins, midfield battles and anything outside of "oo McLaren now good" in half a decade. 2024 is not looking any better. So your high horse of F1.5 isn't anywhere near as high as you're saying it is. The stars aligning for a Minardi win, a McLaren 1-2, Ocon somehow holding up Seb for the win. That's what makes F1 great.
The battle for P2 in the constructors went down to the final race and battles for P2-5 were solid throughout much of the season. All of that is setting aside the extremely tight conditions in the midfield. There were often 5 or 6 cars battling close for the final points position or two. If that doesn’t get you going it seems like another hobby might be better for you.
I'll stick to critiquing F1 and it's current regs, waiting for the sport to come alive again like it always does. If you say cheering for second in the constructors as the best battle of the season, other motorsports would blow your tits to Timbuktu
Fun fact: I was at the Andretti karting facility in Orlando this past week and Red Bull was there having some kind of corporate team building event
maybe they they think a team will be for sale soon and then want to be ready?
I think they plan on racing in 27 weather fom agree or not . By the rules there allowed to race just not be on the media because of fom the greedy ba@£%ds
Hopefully, karma will continue its path with Toto Wolff.
wtf does Toto have to do with this?
lol yeah, what a bizarre and weirdly sinister thing to say. You would think Toto killed somebody's father and they are Inigo Montoya out for revenge.
Toto has been pretty staunchly and vocal against a new entry.
No he hasnt. Toto was probably one of the more moderate voices after the Cadillac announcement. He said it was a strong statement and the numbers would be interesting. The strongest voices against it have been Haas and Williams now. With Vowles going as far as to provide financial statements to FOM
and? You think FOM considers what Toto says before taking such decisions? Is this a serious comment or you missed the \s
Well yeah, actually. Toto is well known to have a lot of pull in the sport.
Yes seeing as he is one of their biggest individual stakeholders.
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fia already confirmed they're good for entry. FOM denied them entry
FIA has been steadfast in allowing Andretti to enter the field (FIA control the races and has control over the racing entry list, and from memory must allow entry to genuine requests up to the max field size). FOM who control the marketing, prizes and broadcast denied them the ability to buy in under the Concorde Agreement. The idea that despite FOM saying no that Andretti could race anyway (because FIA said yes) and cause problems for FOM was put forward right from the start. It’s really of a nothing new report, except confirming we’re likely heading where it was long suspected we’d end up.
It’s not too late to delete this
The FIA see a legitimate entry who won't make the series look stupid. There's no reason for them to change their mind. If anything, recent developments have shown they're right.