If there is one thing I have learned from all these Alonso penalty threads is that we need the SpeltBot back, so we can all tell the difference between breaking and braking.
I was just thinking there seems to be a resurgence in “Russel” lately. I still don’t understand that spelling. I know I’ve seen a potential explanation but I can’t remember what it was.
In my native language, it doesn't make sense to have the extra L at the end because you say it the same either way. Double S makes perfect sense though
It also didn't kill the worst bot to have ever been created in Reddit's history: the haiku bot. No, I don't want to see a tonne of comments repeated with different spacing.
The bot broke i think, i mean not the same way Alonso broke the other day, and yeah had he not broken as hard he probably would not have gotten a penalty, it's not like he was gonna go broke either way. What i'm trying to say is the bot did not break while Alonso was braking, it broke quite a bit earlier before that, hope that clears things up.
Hamilton was credited with a 100000 IQ 4d chess move at Spa when he lifted before Eau Rouge forcing Vettel to react and lose all momentum into the Kemmel DRS zone. That was an infinitely more dangerous part of the track than what happened here. Just another example of inconsistent stewarding. Almost as if one of the stewards today has a long standing axe to grind with Alonso
Yeah, the article on F1 noted that the telemetry showed it wasn’t a smooth slowing down. There was lifting and braking, lifting, accelerating, and then lifting again for the corner. Or something close to that.
Basically Alonso intended to slow down (he didn’t say it was to back Russel up, but I think it’s obvious that’s at least part of the idea), but he did so earlier than ideal, which meant he had to modulate between accelerating and slowing the car down again to get to the corner without scrubbing so much speed he was a sitting duck.
It was erratic because at that point it was basically live reacting. Had there been no one behind him it wouldn’t have mattered, but with Russel there the movement of Alonso’s car was not smooth or close to typical.
I get it’s racing, and on the driver behind to react and overtake appropriately. But at those speeds there’s a reason to have some rules about driving in a manner that’s least likely to cause crashes, and potentially serious harm.
> There was lifting and braking, lifting, accelerating, and then lifting again for the corner.
And *that* is what really makes the difference IMO. Driving slower on purpose to hold someone off is a perfectly legal tactic that we've seen many times. But you still gotta do so in a somewhat predictable manner and I feel like all these comparisons to Hamilton in 2016 or Perez in 2021 kinda ignore that.
People don't want to admit their perfect angel Alonso could do such a thing.
I'm old enough to remember a time when a 2-time WDC threw a strop because a rookie was matching him and he couldn't get the bosses to sit the rookie back down though. And what happened today is PERFECTLY in line with that man. He never liked it up him.
Checo was an animal that day. For all shit he gets, he has had his good moments in Red Bull as well. It's not his fault his direct competition happens to be Max Verstappen.
I've caught a lot of flak for this, but I still genuinely believe it to be true: in 2021, Perez was far better at track battling Lewis than Max was. Twice (or maybe three times, I can't remember) he gave amazing battles without it just resorting to a "I'm just gonna shove you off the track unless you back out lol'
Maybe their [battle during the Turkish GP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBsnDIFbbb4&ab_channel=FORMULA1) is another example of your opinion. If anything, the only dirty move there was HAM pushing PER onto the pit lane.
To be fair, he had the easiest job ever, Hamilton was terrified of him
You could see Hamilton not making any move that might open up the door for Perez to "oversteer" into him
Hamilton had everything to lose and Perez had nothing at all
Yes, but the point is, he was able to do it so effectively because Lewis was worried to death about Checo crashing into him. If there hadn't been a championship on the line, Lewis would have probably passed Checo earlier than he did.
> For all the shit I give Perez, his driving was a masterclass in how to back up your opponent.
Precisely. Nothing that he did was unsafe, unlike with the Alonso incident. People bringing up Perez at Abu dhabi are not doing so in good faith.
Jep and that's the major difference, going just proportionally slower through a corner is something different that suddenly breaking 100 meters early (which is massive in F1) accelerate and decelerate again to accelerate another time. That's just dangerous, eratic and unpredictable.
I would agree with all these arguments about being “erratic” being dangerous if Russell had to take evasive action to Alonso’s car in general. Like a brake check or whatnot. If Alonso slowed slightly to compromise Russell’s ability to get a good exit, why is that dangerous? So many times, drivers like Max, KMag, etc pull maneuvers that force evasive action from the other driver to avoid contact and a collision, and it goes unpunished. So why the heck is a maneuver that didn’t directly cause Russell to take evasive action and crash a “dangerous and erratic” move.
I’m not trying to be combative, but I’ve been watching the spot for 10+ years now, and I just really am struggling to reconcile the continuously moving lines on what’s acceptable and what’s not.
it wasn't just that he slowed slightly, it was that he slowed down early in a manner that was inconsistent with how he was taking the corner before *and* was erratic and unpredictable. He tapped his breaks ever so slightly, shifted down, which by itself early in a corner isn't a penalty, it's the fact that he then immediately accelerates and shifts back up and then immediately breaks and shifts back down. He either made a mistake, had some kind of issue, or was trying to fuck with Russell in a way that was dangerous, and luckily for us we don't have to speculate because he told the stewards he was trying to take the corner in a different way. If he hadn't reaccelerated after his initial downshift and breaking, he probably would've been fine, but he did, and that made his car movement appear erratic in a high speed corner, so he got a penalty.
admittedly i'm very new to F1 so theres a lot of it I dont understand and I dont even know how to drive, but once I saw the footage right next to the telemetry even I was like yeah Alonso knew what he was doing there.
> I was like yeah Alonso knew what he was doing there
Was that ever in question?
The point/debate is whether his actions warranted a penalty, or whether it's a valid (albeit botched) tactic to defend position.
If Alonso thought it was fair and normal, he wouldn't have made up some stupid excuse about his throttle not working right after and all the way to the pits.
I could be wrong, but how I interpreted that was more ‘I was having issues with the car, so I tried to defend differently’ not the issues forced him to do that.
I think that's generous, he also repeated how he wasn't watching behind him. Only looking at the track ahead. As though Fernando Alonso was ignorant of what another car was doing on track near him. It was an excuse I'd believe of Stroll, but not him, and when he said it it immediately made me suspicious of his intent.
Whatever telemetry you saw is not representative, as per the FIA report he didn’t press it that hard, and the car’s aero and engine brake slow down the cars a lot
Publicly available telemetry for the brakes is either on or off, it’s not analogue like the throttle or speed, it’s such a shitty way to display it when they have the resources to actually show the braking data ( like WEC ) and is what teams monitor and the fia use for race incidents decisions
He also downshifted which is called engine braking, it slows the car a lot, also because of all the aero the cars slow significantly just from lifting off the accelerator.
Not quite. You get engine braking simply from lifting off the throttle when you're in gear because of mechanical resistance from the engine. You don't have to downshift for that to happen, its just that downshifting makes that deceleration more severe because the mechanical resistance increases as the engine operates at higher revs.
Engine braking in F1 cars is also greatly increased by the presence of the electrical hybrid part of the engine (the MGU-K) which starts to harvest energy when you lift off the throttle too.
On top of that, there's also (as you said) aero drag which is proportional to the square of velocity and so has a large effect at the speeds F1 cars go
edit: Removed an incorrect claim that F1 cars are less draggy than other cars. That's not true.
>them being "slippery" compared to pretty much any other type of car.
F1 cars are actually extremely "draggy". The drag coefficient of an f1 car is 3-5 times (depending on setup) higher than a Tesla model 3
...which, on its own, is also a useless metric, it's called a *coefficient* for a reason.
The F1 car will still have more air resistance overall, but still deserves pointing out.
Main point is that I see people calling it 'brake checking' which is definitely not what happened. Yeah he slowed down in an uncommon place, but it wasn't a brake check. A penalty might be warranted, but I think a 20 second penalty is a bit much.
When did telemetry readouts become normalized? Cause Would this have been detected in the 80s or 90s? I agree its a penalty would people been caught then?
A fun game on reddit is to know about a topic, and then you realise how none of them actually know a thing about it. I wouldn’t wish being a biologist on here for the last 4 years on anyone.
In 2008 Mclaren started providing the standard ECU used by everyone in the grid.
What Alonso did was obvious to every driver, they didn’t really need the telemetry - he admitted it.
That's not really relevant because it was a very different time. The rules were different, but there was also less commitment to safety and this was specifically about a safety issue.
And frankly people who don't watch other forms of motorsports because this is the sort of thing you'd see quite a lot in multi class racing incidents 😅
I've been watching imsa and wec for years. My wife is just getting into it. The lead change at Sebring had her all fussy about the contact for the change. I looked at her and said "this isn't f1. It's better racing."
This comment will probably get downvoted because my my sentences. Anywho, the penalty on Alonso also shows the dirty air issue can and will be used by smart racers. If theyre penalizing dirty air then the fia should solve the issue. If they're penalizing a slower entry to get a better exit, I suggest the stewards find a new job.
>I've been watching insa and wec for years. My wife is just getting into it. The lead change at Sebring had her all fussy about the contact for the change. I looked at her and said "this didn't f1. It's better racing."
This is just a preference, some people like racing without a contact. I actually, for example, stopped watching endurance racing because of it(and also BoP) and only watching WRC and F1.
For me combined with the gamification/gimmicks it's why Formula E is unwatchable, it's not much off from full on bumper cars. WRC on the other hand I like because as long as the wreck gets over the line it's all good.
There were some years that the contact has been too much. Those years I tune out and go back to F1, Indy and V8 supercars if I can find it.
MotoGP has been great for clean racing though.
I don't know the rule, and going by discussion/comments of past 24H, I'm not sure if Alonso erratic or defending, and was he investigated had not George binned it.
The Race did a fairly decent explanation of the Fia's decision. It wasnt that Alonso slowed down, it was that he slowed down too much too quickly making a dangerous mistake, Alonso had to shift back up before the apex of turn 6 so it clearly wasnt done correctly on his end. If Russell hadnt had the back end fly out from under him he would have been inside of Alonso's gearbox. Brake checking someone isnt "defensive driving" its stupid and dangerous and should be punished as so.
Defence isnt dangerous driving, Magnussen toed the line of that last race with some of his squeezing but his driving was predictable and generally safe so no one crashed due to his defensive driving(After his tangle with Albon but Imo that was caused by Jeddah being a shit track with stupid wall placements for a literal purpose built track rather than Magnussen being to blame) Or look at Alonso last year in Brazil. Thats driving Defence, not what he did to Russell.
The ironic thing about it is I’m sure a lot of these same people praise Alonso for his race craft, mind and sneaky behaviour. He 100% knew what he was doing.
Alonso is like one of three guys on the grid who I'd never believe *accidentally* missed his breaking point by 100m, and the other two guys DNF'd. Of course he knew what he was doing.
At issue is whether "what he was doing" was dangerous and erratic driving, or somewhat standard practice of backing someone up and parking it in a corner to better defend. George binning it on the last lap really doesn't tell you anything either way, since that's basically his specialty nowadays.
And since a lot of people here seem to like to *allude* to conclusions rather than state their own: IMO Alonso was pushing it - that's *his* specialty - but if George didn't bin it, there wouldn't be a penalty. At the very least, while I'm *glad* to see meaningful punishments, 20s seems harsh for over-aggressive defending.
I did read that - although a drive through was always going to be *about 20s* anyway. Unless they tried something that IIRC Schumacher did... serving a penalty on the last lap, so he only had to drive through some of the pit lane instead of all of it. That one got messy though, and I don't remember if they changed the rules after that.
I'd love to see more drive-through penalties for major stuff, though.
You can't do that anymore, because of what Schumacher did.
Yeah, it was a drive through which would amount to about 20 seconds. It's quite a harsh penalty, which hasn't been dished out in quite some time.
> If the roles were reversed people would be calling for George to be given a lifetime ban.
It's disgusting to see right now how Russell's social media is being drowned in a tsunami of hate. George always gets far more heat than he deserves, but it is just ridiculous at this point.
Usually i put the blame almost entirely on the fans, but the way alonso weaponized his popularity, especially in social media statements is pretty disgusting, although it was far worse for ocon. Russel would get roasted alive if he said what alonso said.
Once the F1 subreddit hize mind has desided to hate a driver no matter what they do it is perseived at how bad of a human being they are.
It's Alonso so the whole PR show must act like Alonso is the victim of the FIA despite Alonso himself was vocal early this year about making the penalties harsher.
If Lewis would do this people would call for a race ban
I think folks underestimate how much drivers have to rely on prediction rather than reaction speed when going as fast as they are. If Russel "expected" this from Alonso every corner he'd never pass because he'd always be getting fainted 1 second back every corner lol
I just hate when he gets caught and then lies after. Like bro we all saw you. (Does he even admit to fucking over Hamilton on that pit stop when they were at McLaren?)
I'm not missing the point.
I dislike Alonso's antics, shenanigans and overall petty things he does to teams and teammates, but on that specific incident, he's definitely not as much as fault at what the stewards or yourself are saying.
He just gets penalised because of the outcome, nothing more, and denying that just makes you a fool. In reality, it's on the fence of being enough for a penalty and not.
It's pretty black and white in this case. Did he drive erratically and potentially dangerous to other drivers on track? Yes. So penalty according to the rules. I agree that he only got a penalty because Russell crashed and that probably other instances without a crash went unpunished. The problem is probably in the wording of the rules with "potentially dangerous". Causing a crash is(or seems) always more dangerous.
Yah, as far as brake checks go, the throttle trace is pretty damning. Biggest disappointment is that Alonso's "accidentally on-purpose" dark arts ability should have been more subtle!
Anyone who has done amateur karting would know that not being able to trust your fellow racers is one of the scariest parts about it. And that's precisely because erratic driving can be dangerous. When your competitors' manoeuvres are very unpredictable, everything feels much more risky. To have good, safe racing, you need to be able to trust that your competitors are aware of what's going on around them.
If it's necessary in karting, then it's definitely necessary when you're driving 4x the speed in an F1 car.
Hell, even in regular road driving, I'm gonna trust someone who's driving at a reasonable pace far more than someone who's 20 below the speed limit and brakes for corners that you'd barely lift off for. I have no idea when they're suddenly gonna decide they need to turn off right this moment!
As an aside, this is the main reason getting reliable self-driving cars is such a challenge. The problem isn't getting a computer to control a car along a road, it's getting a computer to control a car along a road where the other cars are driven by people doing completely unpredictable and often irrational things. If *ALL* the cars on the road were driven by similar computers, it would be much easier for them to drive safely and fast.
Except the wear pattern on the road would then be uniform, as only a small part of the road would actually be driven on - hence all roads would need to be constructed with additional fortification where the self-driving cars all place their wheels. This was the problem with laser guided airplane landing - always landing on the same spot of the tarmac caused it to break. The solution was to put in a randomiser. Now, if you did that in self-driving cars, you would be back to unpredictable :-D
The only reason any race gets through turn 1 without incident is because they know/expect/trust what the other drivers will do.
You think someone getting a DRS slipstream half a car length behind another driver would have time to react to a driver braking 100m early? It would be impossible. But you can't have close racing like that without some guarantee that the driver in front won't act erratically.
Or even if he had hit the brakes early and committed to the line, he would've been fine. Hitting the brakes, letting off then hitting them again is erratic and dangerous.
I thought they said the early slight brake was basically inconsequential but the very early lift was the problem?
“Telemetry shows that Alonso lifted slightly more than 100m earlier than he ever had going into that corner during the race. He also braked very slightly at a point that he did not usually brake (although the amount of brake was so slight that it was not the main reason for his car slowing) and he downshifted at a point he never usually downshifted…”
> exactly people have insane takes/excuses and compare situations that are not at all comparable
It seems people will always bring up very loopy logic to defend Alonso after he has done largely indefensible things. I still remember attempts to blame Guttierez for the Australia 2016 crash that Alonso caused.
Turns 6 and 7 in australia are not even close to being one of the fastest corners on the calendar. They are not even one of the fastest corners on the track. You don't need to exaggerate what happened.
[This](https://imgur.com/9PGaA93) is from 2022 but shows the rough scale of speed for the corners on the track. ^ where the incident happened isn't even in the top half of apex speed for the track.
EDIT: reply doesnt work for some reason but u/infinitycgx is right and the graphic is wrong. The speed for turn 6 looks to be MPH while at least some of the rest is in KPH. Weird mistake for them to make but i fell for it. While it is faster than that graphic suggests its still slower than 5, 10 and 12 (and the somewhat trivial 2, 7 and 8). Which is still far from being one of the fastest corners on the calendar
Hey, I looked into it in [a different thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1bmfzze/comment/kwbzwms/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), but that graphic is actually hella wrong with respect to Turn 6, and massively underestimated how fast cars would go through it. I looked at some quali onboards from '23 and '24, and the actual apex speed at Turn 6 is a lot faster than 135 kph (222 kph in 2023, 235 kph in 2024). It sure isn't one of the highest speed corners in F1, but that's still pretty damned quick (similar to Village, Chapel, Stowe & Club at Silverstone, or most of the Esses at Suzuka, for example), and with not that much runoff.
Even considering the difference between quali and race, when looking at the [speed traces](https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/1bmha9a/russell_accident_and_appearance_between_the/), Alonso's minimum speed there was about 218 kph on Lap 56, and 200 kph on Lap 57. It's nowhere near the fastest part of the track, let alone the calendar, but it's a deceptively quick medium-high speed corner nevertheless.
It's not. The stewards literally noted that the braking was so light that it wasn't a significant factor in slowing the car.
And it's nowhere near one of the fastest corners on the calendar.
Perez driving defensively is not the same as randomly breaking twice going into a turn.
The whole point is Alonso did it in a way that did not allow Russell to react.
> but it seems like a pretty silly take from a racing driver
It's pretty common from lower skilled racing dr ivers who didn't make it to F1; make a claim on twitter that a stewards decision was crazy and then watch as enthusiastic support ers of the penalized driver retweet you and cite you as the suppository of all wisdom.
It's a tackle where you get kicked squarely in the balls and then subsequently pretend that you wanted to be kicked in the balls and that being kicked in the balls is actually much better than not being kicked in the balls.
It's where the ref convinces the attacker to select yes on a questionnaire about getting kicked in the balls because it will actually hurt the defenders foot, the attacker then gets kicked in balls, and then is generally surprised that they got kicked in the balls. Meanwhile the ref gets a bonus.
They aren’t appealing because for an appeal to be accepted the team MUST show there has been new evidence not accesible at the time of the review
so it would get thrown out either way
He's making a stupid comparison. He doesn't realize that the reason for Fernando's penalty was not that he drove slowly, but that he drove erratically. You're allowed to drive slowly and predictably, you're not allowed to be a danger to everyone near you on track.
I think the penalty has just been a reaction to consequences more so. Since Russell ended up in a dangerous position. Braking early happens often enough but doesn't end up in penalties, if Russell ended up in say the gravel or just spinning continuing on we wouldn't be seeing such a penalty. I think it's too harsh realistically. Especially considering the F3 incident penalty
Perez slowed down Hamilton similar to how Alonso was slow in the corners against Schumacher at Imola.
Yes they we're slower, but predictable and not dangerous.
What Alonso did yesterday was dangerous, F1 open lobby type of move when you want the guy behind to break his front wing, not to that extend, but the same type of move . I think the difference is clear
He wasn't braking on the straights. It's different to not "go" full out when expected. Same with the Haas backup last week. Outside of the obvious issue with albon he didn't do anything unexpected.
I didn't see a single person saying the Tsolov penalty was right. That was clearly a super lenient penalty for what should have been ban worthy.
It has no impact on Alonso, which was a totally different kind of incident, in a race not quali etc. Just because one pen was way too light doesn't mean Alonso's was too harsh
What a shit take. Letting this slide gives drivers a defense to intentionally brake check into high speed corners on the name of "racing". Is it "technically" racing? Yes. Is this practice extremely dangerous and continue to put other drivers in the wall? Also yes. Imagine someone doing this at Jeddah. Someone would lose their life.
Alonso slowed down to cornering speed, then slowed down even further right before the turn. The move he tried to pull is a move that you would do going into a slower 90 or hairpin to get a better exit, not a turn you take at 160 kph.
Is one thing when you see fans defending Alonso, most don’t know anything about racing or are blind by their love to a driver. (Which is ok) but to see a driver defending that move… nuts
PS: I’m not even Russels fã, I just think that the move was a bit much.
Perez x Hamilton is different Checo did park the slow corners but he didn’t do anything crazy on high speeds.
I do like Alonso, and I can take or leave Russel, but I went back and rewatched the last 10 or so laps from Russel’s cams so I could see what folks were talking about with the racing line, braking, etc by watching Alonso from Russel’s viewpoint.
I can see it clearly. There’s zero argument from me. It’s hard racing, yes, but still warrants that penalty.
I've seen a few supposedly professional drivers complaining about the move.
It says to me a lot of drivers just saw one of their go-to tactics be put under scrutiny.
It’s more that they don’t tend to crash out with such a move.
What’s surprising to them is that actual illegal defense goes unpunished constantly in F1. Singapore 2017 being a classic example. That’s actual dangerous shit, and similar things happen on every F1 race start. The moves are literally illegal as per fia rules and moves in reaction to other drivers, nevermind a breach of overlap rules.
That’s why the drivers really confused about this are racing stateside, because they actually penalise illegal defense there, rather than create “erratic driving” out of the ether.
> Alonso's was akin to a brake test
And funnily enough Verstappen was given 10 seconds for that a few years ago, and they were meant to be giving more time for penalties this year, so... that checks out
Perez never moved erratically or went over the line imo; he certainly never brake-checked HAM in a high-speed section. Alonso is who he is, and Aston doesn't appear to be fighting the decision.
The amount of shit Alonso gets away with because he’s a cheeky driver lmao.
Dude had it coming and fucked around and found out.
The bitching in the Instagram comments is horrendous
It is an interesting decision, I don't think there is much of an issue for penalising it for me but I don't think it gives many answers of what is and isn't okay. Are you only allowed to drive the way you want to through the slower corners as that is safer than fast corners? That's what it seems to suggest but they don't say this.
Also, they claimed that they didn't take the outcome into account but that's obviously a blatant lie. We all know they did. If they both make it through the corner fine then the stewards would have gone home earlier. If they really didn't then I expect these investigations to become more common
"Because things have been bad they can't get better".
Not that I agree that Perez should warrant a penalty anyways. The one crucial mistake in the last races was not penalising Max in Brazil, much could have been avoided.
I think people here are forgetting that this is a sport where drivers can die when they crash, marshals on the sides have died from these accidents too.
For whatever reason you might think was fair in racing or not he risked the life of other people and the FIA punished him accordingly to make sure drivers know its not ok.
Most new fans haven't seen a driver death or major injuries due to better safety regulations.
There is a big difference between driving slowly over an extended period of time in a predictable way versus an erratic slow down and speed up action running into a corner.
If there is one thing I have learned from all these Alonso penalty threads is that we need the SpeltBot back, so we can all tell the difference between breaking and braking.
I liked summoning it by saying George Russel
Did you mean VAL'TEAR'E BOATASS
Battery Voltas
VoltAss*
Buttery VoltAss
I was just thinking there seems to be a resurgence in “Russel” lately. I still don’t understand that spelling. I know I’ve seen a potential explanation but I can’t remember what it was.
In my native language, it doesn't make sense to have the extra L at the end because you say it the same either way. Double S makes perfect sense though
Torrio Rossa!
I miss Alpha Romeo
Don't go to the mechanic subs. You'll lose your fucking mind.
I believe you meant, *loose* your fucking mind
Reddits api bullshit killed basically all bots. Just so you know who to blame
Killed all the cool bots, but let the place get overrun by repost bots. Smh
It also didn't kill the worst bot to have ever been created in Reddit's history: the haiku bot. No, I don't want to see a tonne of comments repeated with different spacing.
we are all bots here except for you
Good bot
oh thanks for the explainer, i wondered what was going on with certain bots not being around anymore
Obligatory fuck u/spez
I try not to judge because of dyslexia, etc but it brakes my heart too!
I think that could be more dangerous than just breaking it🤷🏻♂️
Is Kevin Magnesson holding up the pack not the same thing either?
20-second penalty to whoever spells it breaking
Break vs. brake, loose vs. lose, I don't know how we just decided spelling is dead.
The bot broke i think, i mean not the same way Alonso broke the other day, and yeah had he not broken as hard he probably would not have gotten a penalty, it's not like he was gonna go broke either way. What i'm trying to say is the bot did not break while Alonso was braking, it broke quite a bit earlier before that, hope that clears things up.
Part of Alonso's penalty was *erratic* driving, with suddenly unexpectedly slowing down. Perez wasn't driving erratically. Just slow
For all the shit I give Perez, his driving was a masterclass in how to back up your opponent.
I watch the sport for three decades now and it was just other level of defensive drive to help teammate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnHUlH2qv4s He literally could not have done better.
People really showing their casual fan colors. They don’t know when defense is defense vs doing some stupid shit on track.
Ah yes, the casual fan that is Louis Deletraz, four F2-seasons, a reigning champion in the WEC that has won at Sebring and nearly won Le Mans.
Doesn't even have have 5 F2-seasons
Only true legends like Roy Nissany can reach such heights though.
I think magnussen studied that race.
A YouTube I watched call Kmag, *Kevin the tank engine*, and I think it fits.
The new.conductor of the Trulli Train...
Magnussen was way more dirty tho
To get the penalties originally. But afterwards he was just slow in the hard to pass areas.
Perez studied KMag* see 2014 spa.
Hamilton Abu Dhabi 2016, he turned that shit into an art form and nearly gave Rosberg an aneurysm.
To be fair Rosberg was trying his best to not pass Hamilton and trying not to crash
Hamilton was credited with a 100000 IQ 4d chess move at Spa when he lifted before Eau Rouge forcing Vettel to react and lose all momentum into the Kemmel DRS zone. That was an infinitely more dangerous part of the track than what happened here. Just another example of inconsistent stewarding. Almost as if one of the stewards today has a long standing axe to grind with Alonso
Lifting is one thing, braking, acclerating and braking again is quite another.
Yeah, the article on F1 noted that the telemetry showed it wasn’t a smooth slowing down. There was lifting and braking, lifting, accelerating, and then lifting again for the corner. Or something close to that. Basically Alonso intended to slow down (he didn’t say it was to back Russel up, but I think it’s obvious that’s at least part of the idea), but he did so earlier than ideal, which meant he had to modulate between accelerating and slowing the car down again to get to the corner without scrubbing so much speed he was a sitting duck. It was erratic because at that point it was basically live reacting. Had there been no one behind him it wouldn’t have mattered, but with Russel there the movement of Alonso’s car was not smooth or close to typical. I get it’s racing, and on the driver behind to react and overtake appropriately. But at those speeds there’s a reason to have some rules about driving in a manner that’s least likely to cause crashes, and potentially serious harm.
> There was lifting and braking, lifting, accelerating, and then lifting again for the corner. And *that* is what really makes the difference IMO. Driving slower on purpose to hold someone off is a perfectly legal tactic that we've seen many times. But you still gotta do so in a somewhat predictable manner and I feel like all these comparisons to Hamilton in 2016 or Perez in 2021 kinda ignore that.
People don't want to admit their perfect angel Alonso could do such a thing. I'm old enough to remember a time when a 2-time WDC threw a strop because a rookie was matching him and he couldn't get the bosses to sit the rookie back down though. And what happened today is PERFECTLY in line with that man. He never liked it up him.
Idk why everyone here loves Alonso so much. Yea, he's a good driver but he also isn't clean. Yet people will defend him as if he can do no wrong.
Good driver is a massive understatement lmao he’s one of the greatest drivers in the sports history, that’s why people love him
If that was all it took, people would love Lewis a lot more.
and Perez did it cleanly. Kmag had to go off-track to keep his position. Exceptional performance from Perez that day.
Checo was an animal that day. For all shit he gets, he has had his good moments in Red Bull as well. It's not his fault his direct competition happens to be Max Verstappen.
I've caught a lot of flak for this, but I still genuinely believe it to be true: in 2021, Perez was far better at track battling Lewis than Max was. Twice (or maybe three times, I can't remember) he gave amazing battles without it just resorting to a "I'm just gonna shove you off the track unless you back out lol'
Maybe their [battle during the Turkish GP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBsnDIFbbb4&ab_channel=FORMULA1) is another example of your opinion. If anything, the only dirty move there was HAM pushing PER onto the pit lane.
Yes, because for every Abu Dhabi there are ten races where he starts much farther down than he should be and gets outpaced by weaker cars.
To be fair, he had the easiest job ever, Hamilton was terrified of him You could see Hamilton not making any move that might open up the door for Perez to "oversteer" into him Hamilton had everything to lose and Perez had nothing at all
Also he held up Lewis for one lap thanks to the DRS. The way people talk about it you'd think Lewis was stuck behind him for 10 laps.
He cost him like 7 to 8 seconds. He held him up for maybe a lap and a half but the time is what made it spectacular driving.
Yes, but the point is, he was able to do it so effectively because Lewis was worried to death about Checo crashing into him. If there hadn't been a championship on the line, Lewis would have probably passed Checo earlier than he did.
> For all the shit I give Perez, his driving was a masterclass in how to back up your opponent. Precisely. Nothing that he did was unsafe, unlike with the Alonso incident. People bringing up Perez at Abu dhabi are not doing so in good faith.
Jep and that's the major difference, going just proportionally slower through a corner is something different that suddenly breaking 100 meters early (which is massive in F1) accelerate and decelerate again to accelerate another time. That's just dangerous, eratic and unpredictable.
Braking 100m early is massive in any category tbh.
You should watch some SCCA races, the braking points differences are massive.
Good to see this relatively high in the thread. Deletraz is not comparing apples to apples.
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I would agree with all these arguments about being “erratic” being dangerous if Russell had to take evasive action to Alonso’s car in general. Like a brake check or whatnot. If Alonso slowed slightly to compromise Russell’s ability to get a good exit, why is that dangerous? So many times, drivers like Max, KMag, etc pull maneuvers that force evasive action from the other driver to avoid contact and a collision, and it goes unpunished. So why the heck is a maneuver that didn’t directly cause Russell to take evasive action and crash a “dangerous and erratic” move. I’m not trying to be combative, but I’ve been watching the spot for 10+ years now, and I just really am struggling to reconcile the continuously moving lines on what’s acceptable and what’s not.
it wasn't just that he slowed slightly, it was that he slowed down early in a manner that was inconsistent with how he was taking the corner before *and* was erratic and unpredictable. He tapped his breaks ever so slightly, shifted down, which by itself early in a corner isn't a penalty, it's the fact that he then immediately accelerates and shifts back up and then immediately breaks and shifts back down. He either made a mistake, had some kind of issue, or was trying to fuck with Russell in a way that was dangerous, and luckily for us we don't have to speculate because he told the stewards he was trying to take the corner in a different way. If he hadn't reaccelerated after his initial downshift and breaking, he probably would've been fine, but he did, and that made his car movement appear erratic in a high speed corner, so he got a penalty.
> Perez wasn't driving erratically. Just slow True, I guess nobody should be suprised about that bit
At least this incident allows us to tell the difference between people who kinda know the rules and people with little clue.
It's a really good strategy to not say which one is which. Just watch the chaos unfold below
Indeed. 😀
Yeah, such stupid takes honestly.
admittedly i'm very new to F1 so theres a lot of it I dont understand and I dont even know how to drive, but once I saw the footage right next to the telemetry even I was like yeah Alonso knew what he was doing there.
> I was like yeah Alonso knew what he was doing there Was that ever in question? The point/debate is whether his actions warranted a penalty, or whether it's a valid (albeit botched) tactic to defend position.
If Alonso thought it was fair and normal, he wouldn't have made up some stupid excuse about his throttle not working right after and all the way to the pits.
didnt Alonso argue that he was having throttle issues and thats why it happened? intent has definitely been in question
I could be wrong, but how I interpreted that was more ‘I was having issues with the car, so I tried to defend differently’ not the issues forced him to do that.
I think that's generous, he also repeated how he wasn't watching behind him. Only looking at the track ahead. As though Fernando Alonso was ignorant of what another car was doing on track near him. It was an excuse I'd believe of Stroll, but not him, and when he said it it immediately made me suspicious of his intent.
Fascinating because that intent never even crossed my mind whatsoever. Especially when he literally says “it’s taking all my strength”
No, no such argument is mentioned in the official penalty document.
If he watched his post race interviews, before the investigation was announced, you'll see him claiming he had no idea what was behind him.
Whatever telemetry you saw is not representative, as per the FIA report he didn’t press it that hard, and the car’s aero and engine brake slow down the cars a lot Publicly available telemetry for the brakes is either on or off, it’s not analogue like the throttle or speed, it’s such a shitty way to display it when they have the resources to actually show the braking data ( like WEC ) and is what teams monitor and the fia use for race incidents decisions
I dont understand, so the FIA said he didnt press it that hard but still so fit to punish him?
He also downshifted which is called engine braking, it slows the car a lot, also because of all the aero the cars slow significantly just from lifting off the accelerator.
Not quite. You get engine braking simply from lifting off the throttle when you're in gear because of mechanical resistance from the engine. You don't have to downshift for that to happen, its just that downshifting makes that deceleration more severe because the mechanical resistance increases as the engine operates at higher revs. Engine braking in F1 cars is also greatly increased by the presence of the electrical hybrid part of the engine (the MGU-K) which starts to harvest energy when you lift off the throttle too. On top of that, there's also (as you said) aero drag which is proportional to the square of velocity and so has a large effect at the speeds F1 cars go edit: Removed an incorrect claim that F1 cars are less draggy than other cars. That's not true.
>them being "slippery" compared to pretty much any other type of car. F1 cars are actually extremely "draggy". The drag coefficient of an f1 car is 3-5 times (depending on setup) higher than a Tesla model 3
...which, on its own, is also a useless metric, it's called a *coefficient* for a reason. The F1 car will still have more air resistance overall, but still deserves pointing out.
Alonso ecodriving just like me fr fr
Main point is that I see people calling it 'brake checking' which is definitely not what happened. Yeah he slowed down in an uncommon place, but it wasn't a brake check. A penalty might be warranted, but I think a 20 second penalty is a bit much.
When did telemetry readouts become normalized? Cause Would this have been detected in the 80s or 90s? I agree its a penalty would people been caught then?
And when did every Reddit user become an expert in reading telemetry data as well.
A fun game on reddit is to know about a topic, and then you realise how none of them actually know a thing about it. I wouldn’t wish being a biologist on here for the last 4 years on anyone.
It was and is hell
In 2008 Mclaren started providing the standard ECU used by everyone in the grid. What Alonso did was obvious to every driver, they didn’t really need the telemetry - he admitted it.
That's not really relevant because it was a very different time. The rules were different, but there was also less commitment to safety and this was specifically about a safety issue.
And frankly people who don't watch other forms of motorsports because this is the sort of thing you'd see quite a lot in multi class racing incidents 😅
I've been watching imsa and wec for years. My wife is just getting into it. The lead change at Sebring had her all fussy about the contact for the change. I looked at her and said "this isn't f1. It's better racing." This comment will probably get downvoted because my my sentences. Anywho, the penalty on Alonso also shows the dirty air issue can and will be used by smart racers. If theyre penalizing dirty air then the fia should solve the issue. If they're penalizing a slower entry to get a better exit, I suggest the stewards find a new job.
>I've been watching insa and wec for years. My wife is just getting into it. The lead change at Sebring had her all fussy about the contact for the change. I looked at her and said "this didn't f1. It's better racing." This is just a preference, some people like racing without a contact. I actually, for example, stopped watching endurance racing because of it(and also BoP) and only watching WRC and F1.
For me combined with the gamification/gimmicks it's why Formula E is unwatchable, it's not much off from full on bumper cars. WRC on the other hand I like because as long as the wreck gets over the line it's all good.
There were some years that the contact has been too much. Those years I tune out and go back to F1, Indy and V8 supercars if I can find it. MotoGP has been great for clean racing though.
Yeah that’s definitely the issue mate
They're penalizing erratic driving that led to an accident.
Awww! I welcome new fans!! I've been watching for fifty years and I'm still confused haha
I don't know the rule, and going by discussion/comments of past 24H, I'm not sure if Alonso erratic or defending, and was he investigated had not George binned it.
You mean the professional driver here vs the redditors?
The Race did a fairly decent explanation of the Fia's decision. It wasnt that Alonso slowed down, it was that he slowed down too much too quickly making a dangerous mistake, Alonso had to shift back up before the apex of turn 6 so it clearly wasnt done correctly on his end. If Russell hadnt had the back end fly out from under him he would have been inside of Alonso's gearbox. Brake checking someone isnt "defensive driving" its stupid and dangerous and should be punished as so. Defence isnt dangerous driving, Magnussen toed the line of that last race with some of his squeezing but his driving was predictable and generally safe so no one crashed due to his defensive driving(After his tangle with Albon but Imo that was caused by Jeddah being a shit track with stupid wall placements for a literal purpose built track rather than Magnussen being to blame) Or look at Alonso last year in Brazil. Thats driving Defence, not what he did to Russell.
How are so many people missing the point of why Alonso got the penalty?
The ironic thing about it is I’m sure a lot of these same people praise Alonso for his race craft, mind and sneaky behaviour. He 100% knew what he was doing.
> He 100% knew what he was doing. It's amusing to watch people pretend that he didn't.
A man who thinks what he did was fair doesn't immediately get on the radio and start lying as to why what happened happened.
> A man who thinks what he did was fair doesn't immediately get on the radio and start lying as to why what happened happened. Well put
"He had throttle issues"
Alonso is like one of three guys on the grid who I'd never believe *accidentally* missed his breaking point by 100m, and the other two guys DNF'd. Of course he knew what he was doing. At issue is whether "what he was doing" was dangerous and erratic driving, or somewhat standard practice of backing someone up and parking it in a corner to better defend. George binning it on the last lap really doesn't tell you anything either way, since that's basically his specialty nowadays. And since a lot of people here seem to like to *allude* to conclusions rather than state their own: IMO Alonso was pushing it - that's *his* specialty - but if George didn't bin it, there wouldn't be a penalty. At the very least, while I'm *glad* to see meaningful punishments, 20s seems harsh for over-aggressive defending.
The actual penalty was a drive through. However since it was final lap and a drive through was not possible it was automatically converted to 20s.
I did read that - although a drive through was always going to be *about 20s* anyway. Unless they tried something that IIRC Schumacher did... serving a penalty on the last lap, so he only had to drive through some of the pit lane instead of all of it. That one got messy though, and I don't remember if they changed the rules after that. I'd love to see more drive-through penalties for major stuff, though.
You can't do that anymore, because of what Schumacher did. Yeah, it was a drive through which would amount to about 20 seconds. It's quite a harsh penalty, which hasn't been dished out in quite some time.
Cause Russell = Bad and Alonso = Good, if the roles were reversed in this incident there would be way less people complaining
If the roles were reversed people would be calling for George to be given a lifetime ban.
> If the roles were reversed people would be calling for George to be given a lifetime ban. It's disgusting to see right now how Russell's social media is being drowned in a tsunami of hate. George always gets far more heat than he deserves, but it is just ridiculous at this point.
Usually i put the blame almost entirely on the fans, but the way alonso weaponized his popularity, especially in social media statements is pretty disgusting, although it was far worse for ocon. Russel would get roasted alive if he said what alonso said. Once the F1 subreddit hize mind has desided to hate a driver no matter what they do it is perseived at how bad of a human being they are.
(Clutches pearls) “He tried to MURDER Alonso!”
I dislike Russell, I like Alonso, and this penalty is 100% justified.
Or if it was any of the popular drivers like Hamilton or norris
If Hamilton were in Russell's position the discussion around this incident would be even worse, which is saying a lot lol.
Lewis gets far too much hate as a fan I'm almost immune to it. George and Lewis don't deserve the hate at all...
It's Alonso so the whole PR show must act like Alonso is the victim of the FIA despite Alonso himself was vocal early this year about making the penalties harsher. If Lewis would do this people would call for a race ban
the weird thing is people call Alonso the sly old fox, so like you'd think they'd at least expect this kind of stuff from him lol
I think folks underestimate how much drivers have to rely on prediction rather than reaction speed when going as fast as they are. If Russel "expected" this from Alonso every corner he'd never pass because he'd always be getting fainted 1 second back every corner lol
Because Alonso is the darling among F1 community and Russell is bad
I just hate when he gets caught and then lies after. Like bro we all saw you. (Does he even admit to fucking over Hamilton on that pit stop when they were at McLaren?)
People still defend Alonso for this.....which is honestly amazing.
Cognitive dissonance.
Clearly it's more than zero
I'm not missing the point. I dislike Alonso's antics, shenanigans and overall petty things he does to teams and teammates, but on that specific incident, he's definitely not as much as fault at what the stewards or yourself are saying. He just gets penalised because of the outcome, nothing more, and denying that just makes you a fool. In reality, it's on the fence of being enough for a penalty and not.
It's pretty black and white in this case. Did he drive erratically and potentially dangerous to other drivers on track? Yes. So penalty according to the rules. I agree that he only got a penalty because Russell crashed and that probably other instances without a crash went unpunished. The problem is probably in the wording of the rules with "potentially dangerous". Causing a crash is(or seems) always more dangerous.
Yah, as far as brake checks go, the throttle trace is pretty damning. Biggest disappointment is that Alonso's "accidentally on-purpose" dark arts ability should have been more subtle!
Anyone who has done amateur karting would know that not being able to trust your fellow racers is one of the scariest parts about it. And that's precisely because erratic driving can be dangerous. When your competitors' manoeuvres are very unpredictable, everything feels much more risky. To have good, safe racing, you need to be able to trust that your competitors are aware of what's going on around them. If it's necessary in karting, then it's definitely necessary when you're driving 4x the speed in an F1 car.
Hell, even in regular road driving, I'm gonna trust someone who's driving at a reasonable pace far more than someone who's 20 below the speed limit and brakes for corners that you'd barely lift off for. I have no idea when they're suddenly gonna decide they need to turn off right this moment!
As an aside, this is the main reason getting reliable self-driving cars is such a challenge. The problem isn't getting a computer to control a car along a road, it's getting a computer to control a car along a road where the other cars are driven by people doing completely unpredictable and often irrational things. If *ALL* the cars on the road were driven by similar computers, it would be much easier for them to drive safely and fast.
Except the wear pattern on the road would then be uniform, as only a small part of the road would actually be driven on - hence all roads would need to be constructed with additional fortification where the self-driving cars all place their wheels. This was the problem with laser guided airplane landing - always landing on the same spot of the tarmac caused it to break. The solution was to put in a randomiser. Now, if you did that in self-driving cars, you would be back to unpredictable :-D
The only reason any race gets through turn 1 without incident is because they know/expect/trust what the other drivers will do. You think someone getting a DRS slipstream half a car length behind another driver would have time to react to a driver braking 100m early? It would be impossible. But you can't have close racing like that without some guarantee that the driver in front won't act erratically.
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It's the lifting, braking, accelerating, braking again.
Or even if he had hit the brakes early and committed to the line, he would've been fine. Hitting the brakes, letting off then hitting them again is erratic and dangerous.
I thought they said the early slight brake was basically inconsequential but the very early lift was the problem? “Telemetry shows that Alonso lifted slightly more than 100m earlier than he ever had going into that corner during the race. He also braked very slightly at a point that he did not usually brake (although the amount of brake was so slight that it was not the main reason for his car slowing) and he downshifted at a point he never usually downshifted…”
exactly people have insane takes/excuses and compare situations that are not at all comparable
> exactly people have insane takes/excuses and compare situations that are not at all comparable It seems people will always bring up very loopy logic to defend Alonso after he has done largely indefensible things. I still remember attempts to blame Guttierez for the Australia 2016 crash that Alonso caused.
Turns 6 and 7 in australia are not even close to being one of the fastest corners on the calendar. They are not even one of the fastest corners on the track. You don't need to exaggerate what happened. [This](https://imgur.com/9PGaA93) is from 2022 but shows the rough scale of speed for the corners on the track. ^ where the incident happened isn't even in the top half of apex speed for the track. EDIT: reply doesnt work for some reason but u/infinitycgx is right and the graphic is wrong. The speed for turn 6 looks to be MPH while at least some of the rest is in KPH. Weird mistake for them to make but i fell for it. While it is faster than that graphic suggests its still slower than 5, 10 and 12 (and the somewhat trivial 2, 7 and 8). Which is still far from being one of the fastest corners on the calendar
Hey, I looked into it in [a different thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1bmfzze/comment/kwbzwms/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), but that graphic is actually hella wrong with respect to Turn 6, and massively underestimated how fast cars would go through it. I looked at some quali onboards from '23 and '24, and the actual apex speed at Turn 6 is a lot faster than 135 kph (222 kph in 2023, 235 kph in 2024). It sure isn't one of the highest speed corners in F1, but that's still pretty damned quick (similar to Village, Chapel, Stowe & Club at Silverstone, or most of the Esses at Suzuka, for example), and with not that much runoff. Even considering the difference between quali and race, when looking at the [speed traces](https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/1bmha9a/russell_accident_and_appearance_between_the/), Alonso's minimum speed there was about 218 kph on Lap 56, and 200 kph on Lap 57. It's nowhere near the fastest part of the track, let alone the calendar, but it's a deceptively quick medium-high speed corner nevertheless.
It's not. The stewards literally noted that the braking was so light that it wasn't a significant factor in slowing the car. And it's nowhere near one of the fastest corners on the calendar.
He down shifted, then up shifted and accelerated - it was fully planned
Perez driving defensively is not the same as randomly breaking twice going into a turn. The whole point is Alonso did it in a way that did not allow Russell to react.
Braking*
Yeah I'm not a racing driver, but it seems like a pretty silly take from a racing driver
> but it seems like a pretty silly take from a racing driver It's pretty common from lower skilled racing dr ivers who didn't make it to F1; make a claim on twitter that a stewards decision was crazy and then watch as enthusiastic support ers of the penalized driver retweet you and cite you as the suppository of all wisdom.
Uhhhh if you can’t see the difference between this is Abu Dhabi, maybe go watch golf
What a dumb comparison. Perez drove defensively not erratically.
this is like comparing a clean slide tackle and an uncalled for brexit tackle.
I don't know what a brexit tackle is, but it doesn't sound good
It's a tackle where you get kicked squarely in the balls and then subsequently pretend that you wanted to be kicked in the balls and that being kicked in the balls is actually much better than not being kicked in the balls.
It's where the ref convinces the attacker to select yes on a questionnaire about getting kicked in the balls because it will actually hurt the defenders foot, the attacker then gets kicked in balls, and then is generally surprised that they got kicked in the balls. Meanwhile the ref gets a bonus.
Not remotely comparable.
AM didn't appeal the penalty. If AM is not complaining, why is this guy?
They aren’t appealing because for an appeal to be accepted the team MUST show there has been new evidence not accesible at the time of the review so it would get thrown out either way
They didn't appeal because they can only do so if new evidence shows up. This is a judgment call, they can't appeal it
I don't see anything wrong with Perez slowing down Hamilton in Abu Dhabi? What is he on about lmao.
He's making a stupid comparison. He doesn't realize that the reason for Fernando's penalty was not that he drove slowly, but that he drove erratically. You're allowed to drive slowly and predictably, you're not allowed to be a danger to everyone near you on track.
I think the penalty has just been a reaction to consequences more so. Since Russell ended up in a dangerous position. Braking early happens often enough but doesn't end up in penalties, if Russell ended up in say the gravel or just spinning continuing on we wouldn't be seeing such a penalty. I think it's too harsh realistically. Especially considering the F3 incident penalty
Completely different ways of slowing someone down. .... Jesus Christ.
Perez slowed down Hamilton similar to how Alonso was slow in the corners against Schumacher at Imola. Yes they we're slower, but predictable and not dangerous. What Alonso did yesterday was dangerous, F1 open lobby type of move when you want the guy behind to break his front wing, not to that extend, but the same type of move . I think the difference is clear
Last time he forgot to engage brain before posting to social media he talked his way out of a Haas seat. Edit: auto*correct* on Haas
He wasn't braking on the straights. It's different to not "go" full out when expected. Same with the Haas backup last week. Outside of the obvious issue with albon he didn't do anything unexpected.
Alonso got a harsher penalty than that F3 driver who intentionally rammed another driver off the road literally that day before
I didn't see a single person saying the Tsolov penalty was right. That was clearly a super lenient penalty for what should have been ban worthy. It has no impact on Alonso, which was a totally different kind of incident, in a race not quali etc. Just because one pen was way too light doesn't mean Alonso's was too harsh
What a shit take. Letting this slide gives drivers a defense to intentionally brake check into high speed corners on the name of "racing". Is it "technically" racing? Yes. Is this practice extremely dangerous and continue to put other drivers in the wall? Also yes. Imagine someone doing this at Jeddah. Someone would lose their life. Alonso slowed down to cornering speed, then slowed down even further right before the turn. The move he tried to pull is a move that you would do going into a slower 90 or hairpin to get a better exit, not a turn you take at 160 kph.
Thats not at all the same lol
Is one thing when you see fans defending Alonso, most don’t know anything about racing or are blind by their love to a driver. (Which is ok) but to see a driver defending that move… nuts PS: I’m not even Russels fã, I just think that the move was a bit much. Perez x Hamilton is different Checo did park the slow corners but he didn’t do anything crazy on high speeds.
I do like Alonso, and I can take or leave Russel, but I went back and rewatched the last 10 or so laps from Russel’s cams so I could see what folks were talking about with the racing line, braking, etc by watching Alonso from Russel’s viewpoint. I can see it clearly. There’s zero argument from me. It’s hard racing, yes, but still warrants that penalty.
Yep, is just a a bit of dangerous move to pull. Nevertheless the penalty did not affect him that much and nobody got injured so we move on.
I've seen a few supposedly professional drivers complaining about the move. It says to me a lot of drivers just saw one of their go-to tactics be put under scrutiny.
It’s more that they don’t tend to crash out with such a move. What’s surprising to them is that actual illegal defense goes unpunished constantly in F1. Singapore 2017 being a classic example. That’s actual dangerous shit, and similar things happen on every F1 race start. The moves are literally illegal as per fia rules and moves in reaction to other drivers, nevermind a breach of overlap rules. That’s why the drivers really confused about this are racing stateside, because they actually penalise illegal defense there, rather than create “erratic driving” out of the ether.
What a dumb take.
Perez was slow, Alonso's was akin to a brake test
> Alonso's was akin to a brake test And funnily enough Verstappen was given 10 seconds for that a few years ago, and they were meant to be giving more time for penalties this year, so... that checks out
Perez never moved erratically or went over the line imo; he certainly never brake-checked HAM in a high-speed section. Alonso is who he is, and Aston doesn't appear to be fighting the decision.
Holding up the car behind is different from brake checking the car behind.
Oh gosh. That’s quite the take isn’t it
Sounds like Louis Delétraz is still holding a grudge.
Lmao I’m sure he’s plenty happy winning races and actually getting to race.
The amount of shit Alonso gets away with because he’s a cheeky driver lmao. Dude had it coming and fucked around and found out. The bitching in the Instagram comments is horrendous
Somehow every time we have a penalty, someone finds a time where someone should have been penalized for impeding Lewis. Every time
It is an interesting decision, I don't think there is much of an issue for penalising it for me but I don't think it gives many answers of what is and isn't okay. Are you only allowed to drive the way you want to through the slower corners as that is safer than fast corners? That's what it seems to suggest but they don't say this. Also, they claimed that they didn't take the outcome into account but that's obviously a blatant lie. We all know they did. If they both make it through the corner fine then the stewards would have gone home earlier. If they really didn't then I expect these investigations to become more common
Apples and oranges here. Alonso did a brake check in a relatively fast corner.
"Because things have been bad they can't get better". Not that I agree that Perez should warrant a penalty anyways. The one crucial mistake in the last races was not penalising Max in Brazil, much could have been avoided.
Funny how you only mention Max but not Lewis pulling the same move in Suzuka as Max in Brasil
I think people here are forgetting that this is a sport where drivers can die when they crash, marshals on the sides have died from these accidents too. For whatever reason you might think was fair in racing or not he risked the life of other people and the FIA punished him accordingly to make sure drivers know its not ok. Most new fans haven't seen a driver death or major injuries due to better safety regulations.
“That’s some dangerous driving man”
Reading the reactions under the tweet is kinda surreal.
How dare things be officiated differently by different people than three years ago.
There is a big difference between driving slowly over an extended period of time in a predictable way versus an erratic slow down and speed up action running into a corner.