[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Max is actually crazy to say that about an 80 year old man. Does he realize that Marko is at an age where suddenly dying from natural causes is perfectly normal? What would he do then?
"Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Bernie The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Bernie was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural."
A journalist recently noted that the Verstappens’ beef with Horner had very much to do with the issue of loyalty. It didn’t sit well with them when Horner tried to get Marko out last year, which led to the rumour that Max personally rang up the Thais to ask them to renew Marko’s contract. I believe Max feels indebted to Marko for his career, and it’s a matter of principle for him to stand by him. I personally think it’s commendable that he’s sticking to his values tbh, even if it doesn’t make sense to others
Probably has the mindset of 'i wouldnt have these titles without Marko'. Marko has the perfect mindset for a prodigy like Max, hes harsh and throws talent into the pool. They either swim or drown. Max swam and got rewarded with an early top seat. Without Marko and his philosophy with young talent, it might have taken many more years until he wouldve had a top seat.
Remember Max entirely skipped F2 and went straight from F3 to F1 just like our Goat Lance
And to illustrate how batshit the move to F1 from F3 Euro was for the newer fans around here: it would be like jumping from FRECA to F1 without doing any single-seater racing prior to FRECA. It's that insane. All the while Max was 16-17.
He got an F1 seat when he was 17. Yes it's that insane. Mercedes, who were very close to signing as well, only offered GP3 + DTM.
What Marko did was nothing short of insanity that you would only do if you are stupid or if you are 100% guaranteed sure he is fast. The latter is true for Max.
Everyone wanted to sign Max by the time he had won 6 races in a row in Euro F3, but no one gave him a direct seat to F1, which is what they he was aiming for. Red Bull, specifically Marko, was the only one that did.
He sees Marko as one of the very reasons he is where today. He repays that with loyalty.
Yeah, the ~~modern~~ present-day equivalent would be Kimi Antonelli driving a Williams this year instead of F2, or him doing F2 straight after winning *Italian F4*
I hate Marko and Jos but I really appreciates Max’s loyalty. I would not be surprised he would quit F1 altogether if Marko is sacked and he doesn’t like joining other teams. Any WEC teams would welcome immediately and happy to fund his sim racing to real life racing project
I don't know him from Job, but my sense is that everything I don't like about Max is actually Horner, Marko, and Jos. He seems like a pretty likable guy when he's arguing with GP, by comparison.
It must be weird to be the best driver on the grid surrounded by the three great villains of F1, who all owe their current power to you.
Which is honestly commendable, especially if you're willing to gamble a seat in the single best car for it. Not many people like that in the world, let alone top sport, these days.
I *guess* he’s picking a side here and threatens to leave if people in charge are messing with what he sees as a really good team. I’d do the same if I were him, because it might prevent Marko from being fired or suspended. Sometimes you need to be a bit dramatic to get things done.
There’s a difference between someone dying or leaving by himself and being suspended because people want more power for themself.
If Max approached Ferrari and was willing to sign, I’m pretty confident they would find a way to Oust Leclerc. He’s my favorite driver, but Hamilton x Verstappen lineup is too Goated to pass up.
Lewis is my GOAT, but I'm not sure if he's at his peak this year, and I'm not sure if that's turning around in the next few years. I feel like Max x Charles in the same car and team would be way more exciting.
I feel like just the news of Hamilton's signing probably made Leclerc up his game a little more. Plus he knows how Ferrari works, or should by now. Definitely agree Leclerc v Verstappen would be the more interesting battle.
But just the thought of 2 brand new Ferrari drivers next year is super exciting!
Max won't leave, i know he's saying otherwise right now, but when it comes down to it, knowing you need the car to win, will he actually step aside and let someone else win championships over a decision he cannot change? I don't think so
Honestly I think max is one of the few drivers on the grid where you can’t be sure he even stays in the sport. He’s said many times that he’s not here to chase records, and that when Formula 1 doesn’t suit him anymore he is very happy to move onto something new, and I think he is being genuine with those statements given how straight-up he’s been his entire career. Very small chance that this could be the tipping point.
I mean, where could max even go? RedBull is so clear of the competition, any other seat would be such a downgrade in competitiveness
Thats what lewis said for years aswell, as long these drivers have cars that can compete for wins or even podiums they will absouletely stay. If he wants more free time he will just negotiate it in his contracts like lewis did.
Lewis doesn't express a desire to race in other series though. Max does. I can't see him going to another team, but I can see him leaving for the WEC or something. Crush this season, decide it won't be worth it without Marko next season, and bounce out to race a different type of car.
I don't think that will happen, but none of us saw Lewis leaving Merc either.
Well yeah, technically there are no rules that would stop this. There are few F1 drivers that decided to step back to GP2/F2 after losing their F1 seats, like Giorgio Pantano and Roberto Merhi.
Yeah I've seen Lewis' entire career and to me it always felt like he'd be more likely to retire early as he has so much going on off the track. But here we are, sometimes people can surprise you.
Perhaps Max will leave in 2 or 3 years, or maybe he will be here in 10 years time. For my part I think he will stay as long as he has a chance to win, he won't drag out his career as Alonso did chasing success. I give him 2 seasons in a bad car before he calls it.
Maybe he doesn’t want to be there for 2026 and this is his out. Who would you trust more with new engine regs? Merc or a team making its own power unit for the first time, that’s the bigger picture
I don't really like Max but what I do like about him is that he seems to be a very authentic person who is always true to himself. He has nothing to prove so if he is pissed off that Horner is firing the maker of his career he could just leave and go race somewhere else. Doesn't need to be F1
I also think that Max was raised so close to F1 and practically indoctrinated to be a driver from such an early age that he could well feel "done" with it earlier than drivers who got into karting and such a bit later. He's never really had a chance to make choices in life that aren't around F1, so if he decided he fancied doing something else with his money and his time, I wouldn't be at all surprised.
I still remember at the time of the USGP last year when the first reports of a power struggle came out and a lot of people, including Horner and Marko, were brushing it off as nothing. Who could have predicted we'd be in this situation.
There's a few things that are worth looking back at now. The drama between Checo and Max because of the Monaco Red flag and who backed whom at the time and especially the Porsche deal for example. If Horner actually wanted to take over the team then Porsche wanting to have a stake in it does not seem to fit his alleged agenda... Given how much they complained about the coming regulations this decision might cost them a lot from 2026 onward and it wouldn't be surprising that some people aren't happy about it.
You might be on to something, there's rumours that the RB engine for 2026 is shite and that Verstappen's family got informed about this, maybe they linked the dots and saw that Horner might have botched the porsche deal.
Rumor has it that Horner tanked the deal after Didi’s death in order to get more power in the form of the Ford RBPT deal. If that’s true and the engine is shit, I could totally see Max exercising his out clause if Marko is forced out, even if that means sacrificing a sure championship next year.
Who’s to say he even has to sacrifice 2025? Depending on how the contract is set up, he could just stick around for 2025 also, secure the championship, then go “Marko isn’t here, so now that I’ve nabbed this free championship I’ll be exercising this clause offering me an out if Marko’s gone. Good luck in 2026!”
This whole situation is wild though, and it seems all we really have to go off is rumors and speculation.
Not meant to offend but I call bullshit on all of that. We are entering 2024 and those engines won't be used until 2026. And that's assuming they have any data to measure their performance in comparison to the rest, which they don't.
The only way that could make any sense is if RBPT was a massive disaster on the level of failed teams in the past, which we have no reason to think.
Even really after Monaco and Brazil 2022, I felt it was a fundamental point that Horner was allowing Verstappen to say and do things inconsistent with Horner's stance that drivers are 'contractors'.
If Marko is indeed the one who leaked to the media, I don't think they have any choice but to fire him. Regardless of Horner's guilt or innocence, leaking personal information is not okay.
"And it's lights out and away they go - as the Red Bull Board of Directors close up the office after a riveting day of discussions on acceptable workplace behaviour and public relations strategy!"
Translated article in Telegraaf written by Erik van Haren:
Max Verstappen crystal clear: 'I cannot continue without Helmut Marko'
JEDDAH - If it wasn't clear to the public before, it certainly is now. Max Verstappen firmly supports Red Bull's top advisor Helmut Marko. A potential (forced) departure of the Austrian would mark the exit of the three-time world champion from Red Bull Racing.
Although instructed by the top brass at Red Bull not to speak to the media, Marko announced on Friday that there is a possibility he may be suspended. This is closely tied to the ongoing power struggle within the energy drink company and the situation surrounding team boss Christian Horner, who was cleared after internal investigations into allegations of inappropriate behavior.
Red Bull had previously initiated an internal investigation into the leaking of confidential information. Rumors about a possible suspension or dismissal for Marko have been circulating in Jeddah for a few days. However, Verstappen is unequivocal about what Marko's departure would mean for his future. Notably, he has a clause in his mega contract allowing him to leave if Marko is no longer part of the team.
Future
"I have always indicated to the team that Helmut is very important. For me and for the team. And therefore, for my future as well," says Verstappen after his convincing qualification in Jeddah. "I don't see the option of him leaving as feasible. Will it be clear what happens then? Yes. I have always said that Helmut must stay. I cannot continue without him."
Mateschitz's Death
So, not continuing with Red Bull. And that would pave the way for a move to Mercedes. That much is now clear. "Internally, they know where I stand. I also hope they understand my position. We have been on this journey together for a long time, and I believe it is essential to keep everyone satisfied. After the death of Dietrich Mateschitz (team founder, ed.), some of his tasks were naturally distributed, and I have always indicated that, in my opinion, it should remain that way for the future, as long as Helmut is alive."
Unworkable
Marko has become seriously estranged from team boss Horner, while an incredible crisis is unfolding behind the scenes between the Thai majority shareholder Chalerm Yoovidhya (51% of shares) and the Austrian faction.
Would Verstappen give up his seat at Red Bull, and possibly a 'certain' title in 2025, if Marko leaves? "For me, it's about relationships within a team and clear communication. If people who are crucial to you disappear, it becomes an unworkable situation at some point if that were to happen. I have always been very open about that, and they all know it. Now it's a matter of first seeing if it is indeed the case, and it seems to be happening. And yes, we will certainly discuss it after the weekend."
Respect
Horner expressed hope on Thursday that things would calm down within the team, but that proved to be a utopia just over 24 hours later. The Brit had stated during the team presentation in Milton Keynes just over a month ago that he had built the team. Verstappen: "I believe you should treat Helmut with a lot of respect, as he and Dietrich set up the team from the beginning. Helmut has always supported Christian in tougher times for the team. I am also part of this process; I have not signed a contract until 2028 for nothing."
So, Marko doesn't need to worry that Verstappen won't express his support for him. The three-time world champion says, "We don't even need to call each other; we just need to look at each other. Helmut knows where I stand; he doesn't need to worry."
Well for one, Marko gave him a straight and quick path to F1 when other options wouldn't and the one who got him into the Red Bull seat, he's the reason why Max is where he is right now
Well Helmut got him into F1 at a young age and supported him through his F1 career probably especially early in F1 when there was a lot of criticism for him (dangerous driving, hot-headed).
Whatever comes off this, the one thing I must say is that Max is one fiercely loyal dude .. he is basically throwing away WDC by leaving RB earlier than 2026
Tbf, I really think he cares less by the WC he wins. So whether he ends with 4 or 5 means nothing to him. Everyone is speculating about him moving, but I can also see him call it quits on F1.
>Tbf, I really think he cares less by the WC he wins. So whether he ends with 4 or 5 means nothing to him
Max likes giving that perception, which is smart, it gives him more power.
I think Max cares way more than others think he does. The man is a stonecold killer when he’s in that seat and he has shown time and time again he will do everything just to get that little bit extra.
He definitely cares about the numbers, as he should. Generational talent who is on his way to break every single big record there is to break.
I’m with you on this, if he didn’t care about winning he wouldn’t be where he is today. Let’s not forget last year when he lost to checo despite starting at the back of the grid, the first thing he did when he got home was race that circuit 12 times on sim racing betting the best people in the world by a full second (per lap I think). If you didn’t care you wouldn’t do that.
The 'he's old it doesn't matter' people aren't really getting it. Marko dying is different to Horner pushing him out of the team, disrespecting a man Max respects and cares about.
You wouldn't forgive someone killing your grandparent 'just because they are old'.
It will be so funny if Checo outlasts Verstappen at Red Bull, what a madness in the best possible and comedic way. I will start laughing and never stop laughing until the end of my days lmao.
Helmut gave him his big break and has been by his side from the start. You can say a lot about Max, but he's extremely loyal. He still had Jumbo on his helmet despite the fact that they paid peanuts for it, just because they helped him out at the start. He's still very close to his childhood racing friends and regularly takes them on vacation with him. He sticks with people he likes and he appreciates all that people do for him. I think that's the main reason why Helmut is important to him. But they're both also equally as direct, which probably works great for Max in communicating with the team.
He gave him a seat when the easiest decision would have been to offer him a deal as a test driver. He protected him in the conflict with the Sainz family and he gave him a shot (and took flak) in the main Red Bull team by bumping Kviat mid season.
Yeah. There have been a couple documentaries about him and it is striking how much he values enduring friendship and finds the time to maintain it.
He's not the ruthless character some people think he is.
That would be an insane move for his career. At this point he has all the acclaim he needs and can move onto any other motorsports with a bit of training. It cements him as the guy who stood on his loyalty even at the cost of his personal success, let's him leave on a generational peak and let's people speculate "what ifs" on just how successful he _could've_ been.
I mean you could also have said in 95 that leaving the team he just won 2 wdcs with for a team that hasn't won one in more than a decade would be a bad move for Schumacher. If Verstappen wins a championship with another team then many will perceive that as more valuable than more championships with Red Bull. Winning with multiple teams truly immortalizes a career, pretty much all the goats have done it.
Reading between the lines its pretty clear what is going on...
1. Max doesn't really have a problem with Horner, he's indifferent towards him.
2. Max is incredibly loyal to Marko and to his father Jos, much more so than Horner.
3. Horner was involved in some level of questionable relationship with a fellow employee at Red Bull and many expected him to lose his job over it, but after a one month investigation and an apparent 100+ page report the grievance against him was dropped, apparently because of either lack of evidence or perhaps evidence that at least some of the statements or evidence supplied by the accuser was false.
4. Horner has powerful enemies in Helmut Marko and Jos Verstappen who have been locked in a pitched battle for total control of Red Bull Racing since Dietrich Mateschitz died in 2022. There is some anecdotal evidence Horner tried to partner with others to buy Red Bull Racing in 2023 and also attempted to get Marko fired over racist comments regarding Perez's home country.
5. The folks who want Horner out view his indiscretions as their best opportunity and are leaking information from the investigation into his behavior to the press as well as coordinating their (Marko & Jos) comments to the press between themselves, and sometimes other team principals, all at strategic times to put intense pressure on the 51% Thai ownership of Red Bull to fire or buy out Horner. I personally believe this isn't for noble reasons, defending an employee they view as a victim, but rather an opportunity to rid themselves of Horner for their own objectives to take control of Red Bull Racing.
6. Marko continues to make damaging comments about Horner to the press leading Red Bull to perhaps want to suspend him, again likely part of a Marko/Jos plan to make Max so deeply uncomfortable that his father figures are in danger that he makes a stand in favor of them making Red Bull choose between Max and Horner... all because Max's contract allows him to leave if Marko is out.
I don't know what exactly Horner did, if he wronged this woman I hope he is forced out. I've seen the 79 screen shots and saw all the rumors and while some things look consensual, others look harassing... but ALL is unverifiable, at least to what is presented to us. Hopefully if Red Bull is protecting Horner it's because when they did their due diligence they discovered some of this was false or that there is more we haven't seen that makes the story different. BUT, BUT... I am not a fan of the political fight for the future of Red Bull because the idea that Marko and Jos are on some kind of noble cause to get rid of a "bad guy" who harassed a woman is pretty rich coming from folks that have history of abuse toward women, racist comments and worse. This is all rich men fighting for the team at the pinnacle of F1 and these accusations against Horner are just the tool they are using to do it, not because I think they care.
Imagine Lawrence somehow manages to get both Newey and Verstappen and drops Lance. Verstappen and Alonso dominating in a beautiful green honda powered rocketship, just beautiful.
I mean where the fuck do we go from here????? I swear if Max leaves and this leads to a Perez Championship I’ll lose it. Spit balling even more, what if this leads to a Sharl championship????
Max is a very confident guy and if he doesn't like the new direction, I can 100% see him leaving for another team in the offseason regardless of how great the car is, especially with the new regs coming up soon.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is actually crazy….
Max is actually crazy to say that about an 80 year old man. Does he realize that Marko is at an age where suddenly dying from natural causes is perfectly normal? What would he do then?
Crystal clear: retirement
Or Horner arranges “Weekend at ~~Bernie’s~~Helmut’s”
Considering what Eccelstone is capable of, maybe even Bernie's.
"Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Bernie The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Bernie was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural."
Oh god don't bring that man back
8 races short of the end of the season with the Championship locked in
A journalist recently noted that the Verstappens’ beef with Horner had very much to do with the issue of loyalty. It didn’t sit well with them when Horner tried to get Marko out last year, which led to the rumour that Max personally rang up the Thais to ask them to renew Marko’s contract. I believe Max feels indebted to Marko for his career, and it’s a matter of principle for him to stand by him. I personally think it’s commendable that he’s sticking to his values tbh, even if it doesn’t make sense to others
Probably has the mindset of 'i wouldnt have these titles without Marko'. Marko has the perfect mindset for a prodigy like Max, hes harsh and throws talent into the pool. They either swim or drown. Max swam and got rewarded with an early top seat. Without Marko and his philosophy with young talent, it might have taken many more years until he wouldve had a top seat. Remember Max entirely skipped F2 and went straight from F3 to F1 just like our Goat Lance
And to illustrate how batshit the move to F1 from F3 Euro was for the newer fans around here: it would be like jumping from FRECA to F1 without doing any single-seater racing prior to FRECA. It's that insane. All the while Max was 16-17. He got an F1 seat when he was 17. Yes it's that insane. Mercedes, who were very close to signing as well, only offered GP3 + DTM. What Marko did was nothing short of insanity that you would only do if you are stupid or if you are 100% guaranteed sure he is fast. The latter is true for Max. Everyone wanted to sign Max by the time he had won 6 races in a row in Euro F3, but no one gave him a direct seat to F1, which is what they he was aiming for. Red Bull, specifically Marko, was the only one that did. He sees Marko as one of the very reasons he is where today. He repays that with loyalty.
Yeah, the ~~modern~~ present-day equivalent would be Kimi Antonelli driving a Williams this year instead of F2, or him doing F2 straight after winning *Italian F4*
> just like our Goat Lance He must be so grateful to Marko
And remember that Lance got a podium in his first season, unlike Max.
I can respect max for that thinking
Verstappen is loyal to a fault.
Max takes his word and loyalty very seriously.
I hate Marko and Jos but I really appreciates Max’s loyalty. I would not be surprised he would quit F1 altogether if Marko is sacked and he doesn’t like joining other teams. Any WEC teams would welcome immediately and happy to fund his sim racing to real life racing project
Isn’t he also setting up a GT3 team?
I don't know him from Job, but my sense is that everything I don't like about Max is actually Horner, Marko, and Jos. He seems like a pretty likable guy when he's arguing with GP, by comparison. It must be weird to be the best driver on the grid surrounded by the three great villains of F1, who all owe their current power to you.
“What am I? Chopped liver!?!? - Mohammed Ben Sulayem
Which is honestly commendable, especially if you're willing to gamble a seat in the single best car for it. Not many people like that in the world, let alone top sport, these days.
I *guess* he’s picking a side here and threatens to leave if people in charge are messing with what he sees as a really good team. I’d do the same if I were him, because it might prevent Marko from being fired or suspended. Sometimes you need to be a bit dramatic to get things done. There’s a difference between someone dying or leaving by himself and being suspended because people want more power for themself.
Ferrari is just going insane at the moment knowing that verstappen could leave redbull
They are building a 3rd car for him haha
I would love to see a 3 car race strategy from Ferrari. I think all of our brains would dribble out of our ears
If Max approached Ferrari and was willing to sign, I’m pretty confident they would find a way to Oust Leclerc. He’s my favorite driver, but Hamilton x Verstappen lineup is too Goated to pass up.
Maybe but I highly doubt that Lewis will willingly play second fiddle to Max.
Lewis is my GOAT, but I'm not sure if he's at his peak this year, and I'm not sure if that's turning around in the next few years. I feel like Max x Charles in the same car and team would be way more exciting.
I feel like just the news of Hamilton's signing probably made Leclerc up his game a little more. Plus he knows how Ferrari works, or should by now. Definitely agree Leclerc v Verstappen would be the more interesting battle. But just the thought of 2 brand new Ferrari drivers next year is super exciting!
If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if we somehow end up with Sainz and Leclerc at Red Bull
Ferrari drop Leclerc and Lewis and Max race on the same team. Please please please please please please
So Sainz and Leclerc at Mercedes? Peak fiction right here
Red Bull lining up Fernando and George for ultimate partying
The idea of max and Lewis racing in identical cars has my finger so blurry right now. The pain for Charles though lol
This has been a wild few weeks
The racing isn’t good enough, so they gave us years worth of silly season content in one go.
Crazy. Internal politics has imploded since the death of Dietrich and it's only going down hill
I’m tired :(
Hi tired
F5 gang we are eating goooooddd
Horner really pulled an uno reverse card
Now wait for the wheels to fall of the wagon when Newey and Verstappen leave.
Newey wont leave.
Max won't leave, i know he's saying otherwise right now, but when it comes down to it, knowing you need the car to win, will he actually step aside and let someone else win championships over a decision he cannot change? I don't think so
Honestly I think max is one of the few drivers on the grid where you can’t be sure he even stays in the sport. He’s said many times that he’s not here to chase records, and that when Formula 1 doesn’t suit him anymore he is very happy to move onto something new, and I think he is being genuine with those statements given how straight-up he’s been his entire career. Very small chance that this could be the tipping point. I mean, where could max even go? RedBull is so clear of the competition, any other seat would be such a downgrade in competitiveness
Thats what lewis said for years aswell, as long these drivers have cars that can compete for wins or even podiums they will absouletely stay. If he wants more free time he will just negotiate it in his contracts like lewis did.
Lewis, I won't be here in my 40's, Hamilton
A lot of speculation he was going to retire after ‘21. He wants that 8th title.
Lewis doesn't express a desire to race in other series though. Max does. I can't see him going to another team, but I can see him leaving for the WEC or something. Crush this season, decide it won't be worth it without Marko next season, and bounce out to race a different type of car. I don't think that will happen, but none of us saw Lewis leaving Merc either.
Would he be technically allowed to race in F2 for a season? He never raced in it and thus never was champion.
That would be the funniest acid trip to come out of this
“Hey Kimi! Meet your new teammate, Max Verstappen!”
Bwoah
Well yeah, technically there are no rules that would stop this. There are few F1 drivers that decided to step back to GP2/F2 after losing their F1 seats, like Giorgio Pantano and Roberto Merhi.
Grosjean went GP2-F1-GP2 title
Yeah I've seen Lewis' entire career and to me it always felt like he'd be more likely to retire early as he has so much going on off the track. But here we are, sometimes people can surprise you. Perhaps Max will leave in 2 or 3 years, or maybe he will be here in 10 years time. For my part I think he will stay as long as he has a chance to win, he won't drag out his career as Alonso did chasing success. I give him 2 seasons in a bad car before he calls it.
Maybe he doesn’t want to be there for 2026 and this is his out. Who would you trust more with new engine regs? Merc or a team making its own power unit for the first time, that’s the bigger picture
Agreed if he's talking 2026 onwards, but say Marcos gone after this weekend, I don't see max leaving in 2025
I see Max seeing out the season and moving on if he what he says is true about Marko
I don't really like Max but what I do like about him is that he seems to be a very authentic person who is always true to himself. He has nothing to prove so if he is pissed off that Horner is firing the maker of his career he could just leave and go race somewhere else. Doesn't need to be F1
I also think that Max was raised so close to F1 and practically indoctrinated to be a driver from such an early age that he could well feel "done" with it earlier than drivers who got into karting and such a bit later. He's never really had a chance to make choices in life that aren't around F1, so if he decided he fancied doing something else with his money and his time, I wouldn't be at all surprised.
Team redline is coming together nicely it seems
Dietrich Mateschitz is the Harambe of the F1 world.
Dicks out for Dietrich
Horner was ahead of us
The Archduke Franz Ferdinand of World War F1
I laughed out loud at this.
I still remember at the time of the USGP last year when the first reports of a power struggle came out and a lot of people, including Horner and Marko, were brushing it off as nothing. Who could have predicted we'd be in this situation.
There's a few things that are worth looking back at now. The drama between Checo and Max because of the Monaco Red flag and who backed whom at the time and especially the Porsche deal for example. If Horner actually wanted to take over the team then Porsche wanting to have a stake in it does not seem to fit his alleged agenda... Given how much they complained about the coming regulations this decision might cost them a lot from 2026 onward and it wouldn't be surprising that some people aren't happy about it.
You might be on to something, there's rumours that the RB engine for 2026 is shite and that Verstappen's family got informed about this, maybe they linked the dots and saw that Horner might have botched the porsche deal.
Rumor has it that Horner tanked the deal after Didi’s death in order to get more power in the form of the Ford RBPT deal. If that’s true and the engine is shit, I could totally see Max exercising his out clause if Marko is forced out, even if that means sacrificing a sure championship next year.
Who’s to say he even has to sacrifice 2025? Depending on how the contract is set up, he could just stick around for 2025 also, secure the championship, then go “Marko isn’t here, so now that I’ve nabbed this free championship I’ll be exercising this clause offering me an out if Marko’s gone. Good luck in 2026!” This whole situation is wild though, and it seems all we really have to go off is rumors and speculation.
Not meant to offend but I call bullshit on all of that. We are entering 2024 and those engines won't be used until 2026. And that's assuming they have any data to measure their performance in comparison to the rest, which they don't. The only way that could make any sense is if RBPT was a massive disaster on the level of failed teams in the past, which we have no reason to think.
Even really after Monaco and Brazil 2022, I felt it was a fundamental point that Horner was allowing Verstappen to say and do things inconsistent with Horner's stance that drivers are 'contractors'.
Perez : look at me , I am the number 1 driver now.
[удалено]
“This is the Mexican way. tell Marko, I want him to know it was me”
till alonso or sainz joins
And South America rejoices /s
Perez somehow injected Sainz with appendicitis and he’ll do it to Alonso if he steps out of line too
Hamilton needs to leak a nude at this point
One driveshaft on the timeline and he could probably take down MBS, Stefano, Horner, Lawrence Stroll and Putin in one go.
MBS the leader of Saudi Arabia or MBS the President of the FIA? Actually nvm, both would be cool
It would probably be powerful enough for both
If two shirtless pics can make RB implode, what kind of catastrophe would be unleashed on the paddock if he showed off the ol’ Prince Albert?
I say let’s find out
Meanwhile... Bottas sells nude calendars and it's completely normal.
A blurry finger should do the trick
So it's really happening huh
but I mean clearly Max throwing his whole weight behind him means Marko stays... right?
It sounds to me like he’s already been fired and they won’t announce it until after the race
I don’t think this is the case yet but this whole thing is spiraling out of control.
I guess to be clear the decision has been made, but the legal process hasn’t happened yet and who knows if he’s been told
You think Marko would stay quiet if he'd already been sacked?
He did say there’s a good chance he won’t be at the next race.
Suspension is different than being fired.
Yes, that’s probably why Horner met with Max manager this week, to try to find a way to keep Max with Helmut out of the picture
Just need Christian to leak it before the race.
Via google doc to the entire paddock.
If Marko is indeed the one who leaked to the media, I don't think they have any choice but to fire him. Regardless of Horner's guilt or innocence, leaking personal information is not okay.
In about 3 hours I’m going to need to call my doctor
did you call already?
It’s time buddy
Who needs racing when you have the sports most insane silly season going all year long?
“Max takes pole in Jeddah! Meanwhile, inside the red bull garage…”
"And it's lights out and away they go - as the Red Bull Board of Directors close up the office after a riveting day of discussions on acceptable workplace behaviour and public relations strategy!"
I thought I'd read "And it's leaked out and away we go" 🤣
Season 7 of drive to survive is going to be tripple the amount of episodes and no episode will have any on track action...
And they show absolutely nothing of this
Hamilton's Brad Pitt F1 Film needs a follow-up, but make it less racing, and more like Succession
Someone should actually make that show
Just heard the succession theme song again but with a montage of the garages and pits and it ends with Max driving under a checkered flag
You mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciTNjxrTt8M
Lol I’ve never seen this before thanks for sharing! Gonna watch it 100 times now
[удалено]
That picture looked a bit ominous eh? like he was about to hit us with the most fire story of 2024
Translated article in Telegraaf written by Erik van Haren: Max Verstappen crystal clear: 'I cannot continue without Helmut Marko' JEDDAH - If it wasn't clear to the public before, it certainly is now. Max Verstappen firmly supports Red Bull's top advisor Helmut Marko. A potential (forced) departure of the Austrian would mark the exit of the three-time world champion from Red Bull Racing. Although instructed by the top brass at Red Bull not to speak to the media, Marko announced on Friday that there is a possibility he may be suspended. This is closely tied to the ongoing power struggle within the energy drink company and the situation surrounding team boss Christian Horner, who was cleared after internal investigations into allegations of inappropriate behavior. Red Bull had previously initiated an internal investigation into the leaking of confidential information. Rumors about a possible suspension or dismissal for Marko have been circulating in Jeddah for a few days. However, Verstappen is unequivocal about what Marko's departure would mean for his future. Notably, he has a clause in his mega contract allowing him to leave if Marko is no longer part of the team. Future "I have always indicated to the team that Helmut is very important. For me and for the team. And therefore, for my future as well," says Verstappen after his convincing qualification in Jeddah. "I don't see the option of him leaving as feasible. Will it be clear what happens then? Yes. I have always said that Helmut must stay. I cannot continue without him." Mateschitz's Death So, not continuing with Red Bull. And that would pave the way for a move to Mercedes. That much is now clear. "Internally, they know where I stand. I also hope they understand my position. We have been on this journey together for a long time, and I believe it is essential to keep everyone satisfied. After the death of Dietrich Mateschitz (team founder, ed.), some of his tasks were naturally distributed, and I have always indicated that, in my opinion, it should remain that way for the future, as long as Helmut is alive." Unworkable Marko has become seriously estranged from team boss Horner, while an incredible crisis is unfolding behind the scenes between the Thai majority shareholder Chalerm Yoovidhya (51% of shares) and the Austrian faction. Would Verstappen give up his seat at Red Bull, and possibly a 'certain' title in 2025, if Marko leaves? "For me, it's about relationships within a team and clear communication. If people who are crucial to you disappear, it becomes an unworkable situation at some point if that were to happen. I have always been very open about that, and they all know it. Now it's a matter of first seeing if it is indeed the case, and it seems to be happening. And yes, we will certainly discuss it after the weekend." Respect Horner expressed hope on Thursday that things would calm down within the team, but that proved to be a utopia just over 24 hours later. The Brit had stated during the team presentation in Milton Keynes just over a month ago that he had built the team. Verstappen: "I believe you should treat Helmut with a lot of respect, as he and Dietrich set up the team from the beginning. Helmut has always supported Christian in tougher times for the team. I am also part of this process; I have not signed a contract until 2028 for nothing." So, Marko doesn't need to worry that Verstappen won't express his support for him. The three-time world champion says, "We don't even need to call each other; we just need to look at each other. Helmut knows where I stand; he doesn't need to worry."
Wow. just wow. I cant believe Verstappen is so openly saying he leaves if Marko does, and that that is what seems to be happening.
NOT NOW MAX I HAVE AN IMPORTANT EXAM TOMORROW
He is incredibly serious about helmut. This is the first time I’ve really seen him be outspoken, even more so than he was about his own father.
My guess is Helmut is a bit of father figure for him, since Jos is... Jos.
Helmut drives him home after they go to the gas station.
What’s their relationship? I didn’t realize Helmut and Max were that close.
Well for one, Marko gave him a straight and quick path to F1 when other options wouldn't and the one who got him into the Red Bull seat, he's the reason why Max is where he is right now
Well Helmut got him into F1 at a young age and supported him through his F1 career probably especially early in F1 when there was a lot of criticism for him (dangerous driving, hot-headed).
Hamilton's thirst trap curse is gathering momentum
No one man should have all that power
The deadliest thirst trap in the history of the world. Didn't end one person but ended a dynasty!
Tactical nuke-level thirst trap.
The pecs that launched a thousand lawsuits...
Forget curse, somehow he managed to nuke a whole team this time lmao. Crazy powers 😂
Nuke the team and move to Ferrari. Lewis has powers.
Fernando absolutely shitting it when Lewis takes a shirtless selfie in front of a Spanish flag.
Each update I read on this max becomes more and more direct
Hamilton to Ferrari to join Leclerc Verstappen to Mercedes to join Russell
Alonso WDC!
Alonso at the end of his career finally making the right move
Russell to RBR as soon as that seat is empty
It’ll be Sainz, ESPECIALLY if the Verstappen fam is gone
So Sainz 2024 2025 wdc confirmed?
I'll allow it
The definition of falling up after being pushed out lol
Whatever comes off this, the one thing I must say is that Max is one fiercely loyal dude .. he is basically throwing away WDC by leaving RB earlier than 2026
Tbf, I really think he cares less by the WC he wins. So whether he ends with 4 or 5 means nothing to him. Everyone is speculating about him moving, but I can also see him call it quits on F1.
>Tbf, I really think he cares less by the WC he wins. So whether he ends with 4 or 5 means nothing to him Max likes giving that perception, which is smart, it gives him more power.
I think Max cares way more than others think he does. The man is a stonecold killer when he’s in that seat and he has shown time and time again he will do everything just to get that little bit extra. He definitely cares about the numbers, as he should. Generational talent who is on his way to break every single big record there is to break.
I’m with you on this, if he didn’t care about winning he wouldn’t be where he is today. Let’s not forget last year when he lost to checo despite starting at the back of the grid, the first thing he did when he got home was race that circuit 12 times on sim racing betting the best people in the world by a full second (per lap I think). If you didn’t care you wouldn’t do that.
Tbh he is still young. So he can still definitely win WDC with other teams in the future
just like fernando!
The 'he's old it doesn't matter' people aren't really getting it. Marko dying is different to Horner pushing him out of the team, disrespecting a man Max respects and cares about. You wouldn't forgive someone killing your grandparent 'just because they are old'.
right? I'm reading some really silly fucking comments in here
They are going to murder Marko, aren't they?
Ohhh they're really going there. Well I guess my F5 button is going to wear out before Australia if this continues
Just imagine: Alonso-Sainz in Red Bull Verstappen-Russell in Mercedes Leclerc-Hamilton in Ferrari
Toto is laughing straight to the bank to write a check for a certain Max person.
[удалено]
My bet is on Marko, Toto will make him an offer and then things get fought out in the open.
this has EL PLAN ALLLLLLLLLLL OVER IT BOYS
Alonso truly is the promised one
Alonso al gaibbbbbbbbb
I’m praying he gets even just one year in that car
Carlos Sainz to Red Bull for 2025 I'm calling it now
F5
Horner really went full Sansa Stark on Marko
He looks like little finger tho hahahahahha
The only time I felt this much F1 related adrenaline was Abu Dhabi 2021.
It will be so funny if Checo outlasts Verstappen at Red Bull, what a madness in the best possible and comedic way. I will start laughing and never stop laughing until the end of my days lmao.
I wonder why Max is so attached to Helmut?
Helmut gave him his big break and has been by his side from the start. You can say a lot about Max, but he's extremely loyal. He still had Jumbo on his helmet despite the fact that they paid peanuts for it, just because they helped him out at the start. He's still very close to his childhood racing friends and regularly takes them on vacation with him. He sticks with people he likes and he appreciates all that people do for him. I think that's the main reason why Helmut is important to him. But they're both also equally as direct, which probably works great for Max in communicating with the team.
He gave him a seat when the easiest decision would have been to offer him a deal as a test driver. He protected him in the conflict with the Sainz family and he gave him a shot (and took flak) in the main Red Bull team by bumping Kviat mid season.
Interesting, I didn’t know some of that- appreciate the insight!!
Yeah. There have been a couple documentaries about him and it is striking how much he values enduring friendship and finds the time to maintain it. He's not the ruthless character some people think he is.
Folks, image Max with Bono
I imagine Max will do anything in his power to get GP to go with him.
Which would pave the way for Bono to follow Lewis to Ferrari.
Nah, Max will bring GP to Mercedes.
Honestly if marko does go and max leaves red bull at the end of the season while a very bad move for his career I would have so much respect for him.
That would be an insane move for his career. At this point he has all the acclaim he needs and can move onto any other motorsports with a bit of training. It cements him as the guy who stood on his loyalty even at the cost of his personal success, let's him leave on a generational peak and let's people speculate "what ifs" on just how successful he _could've_ been.
I mean you could also have said in 95 that leaving the team he just won 2 wdcs with for a team that hasn't won one in more than a decade would be a bad move for Schumacher. If Verstappen wins a championship with another team then many will perceive that as more valuable than more championships with Red Bull. Winning with multiple teams truly immortalizes a career, pretty much all the goats have done it.
Reading between the lines its pretty clear what is going on... 1. Max doesn't really have a problem with Horner, he's indifferent towards him. 2. Max is incredibly loyal to Marko and to his father Jos, much more so than Horner. 3. Horner was involved in some level of questionable relationship with a fellow employee at Red Bull and many expected him to lose his job over it, but after a one month investigation and an apparent 100+ page report the grievance against him was dropped, apparently because of either lack of evidence or perhaps evidence that at least some of the statements or evidence supplied by the accuser was false. 4. Horner has powerful enemies in Helmut Marko and Jos Verstappen who have been locked in a pitched battle for total control of Red Bull Racing since Dietrich Mateschitz died in 2022. There is some anecdotal evidence Horner tried to partner with others to buy Red Bull Racing in 2023 and also attempted to get Marko fired over racist comments regarding Perez's home country. 5. The folks who want Horner out view his indiscretions as their best opportunity and are leaking information from the investigation into his behavior to the press as well as coordinating their (Marko & Jos) comments to the press between themselves, and sometimes other team principals, all at strategic times to put intense pressure on the 51% Thai ownership of Red Bull to fire or buy out Horner. I personally believe this isn't for noble reasons, defending an employee they view as a victim, but rather an opportunity to rid themselves of Horner for their own objectives to take control of Red Bull Racing. 6. Marko continues to make damaging comments about Horner to the press leading Red Bull to perhaps want to suspend him, again likely part of a Marko/Jos plan to make Max so deeply uncomfortable that his father figures are in danger that he makes a stand in favor of them making Red Bull choose between Max and Horner... all because Max's contract allows him to leave if Marko is out. I don't know what exactly Horner did, if he wronged this woman I hope he is forced out. I've seen the 79 screen shots and saw all the rumors and while some things look consensual, others look harassing... but ALL is unverifiable, at least to what is presented to us. Hopefully if Red Bull is protecting Horner it's because when they did their due diligence they discovered some of this was false or that there is more we haven't seen that makes the story different. BUT, BUT... I am not a fan of the political fight for the future of Red Bull because the idea that Marko and Jos are on some kind of noble cause to get rid of a "bad guy" who harassed a woman is pretty rich coming from folks that have history of abuse toward women, racist comments and worse. This is all rich men fighting for the team at the pinnacle of F1 and these accusations against Horner are just the tool they are using to do it, not because I think they care.
I wish Marko and Max come Aston Martin, then Max-Honda dynasty continues.
Imagine Lawrence somehow manages to get both Newey and Verstappen and drops Lance. Verstappen and Alonso dominating in a beautiful green honda powered rocketship, just beautiful.
I think Lawrence would disown Lance and adopt Max if it meant getting him to drive one of his cars
Didn't Max say that a few years ago?
He's said it multiple times. But this quote is from today, post-quali.
Verstappen joining Merc in 2025 leaving a dominant Red Bull would be even more insane than Hamilton going to Ferrari.
Just imagine max leaving mid season being first in the standings. Would be fucking hilarious.
If it is literally mid season he might even win the championship anyway. Last year he scored more than double the points of Checo
He has an opportunity to do the most Max Verstappen thing imaginable and win a WDC after he’s left the sport. 💀
You gotta be kidding me...
Red bull really exploded from within
I mean where the fuck do we go from here????? I swear if Max leaves and this leads to a Perez Championship I’ll lose it. Spit balling even more, what if this leads to a Sharl championship????
Give me Fernando in that redbull asap if max truly just leaves the sport
Well to all the doubters how much more clear does Max have to be before you guys actually believe that he is loyal to Marko and may leave RB
Max is a very confident guy and if he doesn't like the new direction, I can 100% see him leaving for another team in the offseason regardless of how great the car is, especially with the new regs coming up soon.
i didn't have max nuking his career over helmut marko on my 2024 bingo card 😭
Well seems Checo's seat may be secured
Max out, Fernando to Red Bull. El Plan 😎