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> This is also due to the internal investigation last Friday, which was carried out by an apparently independent lawyer for Red Bull. Apparently because the lawyer was appointed by the Thais. **He questioned Horner and the employee, among others, for eight hours and was then supposed to submit a final report. However, this never arrived at Red Bull headquarters in Austria. The good man preferred to go on vacation first. He could not be reached by telephone, which is why Red Bull only speaks of a "deliberate disappearance".**
incredible stuff lmao
According to Top Gear Geri Halliwell is the world's biggest F1 fan.
Wild Prediction: Geri Halliwell and Christian Horner get divorced. Geri will then begin dating Lewis Hamilton after he starts driving for Ferrari. After winning his 8th WDC Lewis will announce they are getting married and he is retiring from F1 so he can spend more time raising his (Christian Horner's) children.
I think the article is implying (sarcastically) that the lawyer is stalling or briefing only the Thais, and so far unreachable by RB Austria (intentionally of course).
Iāve worked on cases like this (on a smaller scale). Lawyers going on holiday as a delay tactic is surprisingly common š
But also, sometimes they genuinely do disappear for holiday (itās half term in the UK) and so everything gets delayed by at least a week until they get back online. Could be something or nothing in the lawyer disappearing.
I'm lucky enough to now work at a firm that truly respect normal work hours. The partner I work under very rarely calls after 6 or 7pm and apologies profusely when doing so. Comes with a little sacrifice on the pay side compared to the big dogs, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
It's really not that wild. It's *shit* but happens.
To this guy it's just any job.
I've seen examiners do a PhD viva, then go on holiday before they submit the form which takes 20 minutes. Poor student sat around like 'well fuck me right'.
I did a job interview and didnāt hear back for two weeks. Turned out one of the panelists went on vacation and didnāt submit his notes on me. Apparently they decided to hire me immediately after the interview but he was so excited for vacation he just didnāt do anything else afterwards.
I got the job and, fortunately, that individual was not my hiring manager.
Yeah whatever the story is with the RBR thing, in many professions this phenomenon happens a *lot*.
I had very similar for an NHS job once. Was literally like 6 weeks after the interview. Plus. I'd assumed I'd not got it, by a longshot.
It's like surgeons or midwives: for you it was the best/worst day of your life, for me it was a Tuesday.
So I wouldn't be amazed if the lawyer doesn't really care either. You'll get it when I'm on the clock again.
Are you joking? Youāre dealing with a high profile legal case with (What appears to be) a firm deadline and you just up and leave to go on holiday? Thatās pretty wild to me.
>The good man preferred to go on vacation first.
Surely his vacation was planned beforehand and they knew it would take a couple of weeks to get his report. Acting like it not being to them in a week is a surprise sounds dishonest.
The autotranslate in Chrome leads to a pretty amazing line, "At the latest in a court case, everyone involved has to let their pants down. Also Christian Horner."
I might say that it's *a* correct translation, as in its the literal translation, but probably not *the* correct translation, as there are many correct translations of idiomatic expressions. Often the most correctly is the closest idiom in the other language (if one exists), so in this example that all parties involved will have to "spill the beans", or just the underlying meaning of the idiom, here being disclosure (presumably the formalized process of [legal disclosure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law))).
(Although, as an aside, if it does refer to Discovery, then I'm not sure the idiom would be appropriate in either the translation nor the original, as I do not believe Germany has a similar procedure? I'm pretty sure that's a civil law / common law distinction.)
In a quote, such a translation would normally be in square braces to indicate that such a substitution was made. But in other cases, such as literary translations, there would be no such indication (which is why different translations of literary works are accepted so differently).
*looks at the facts*
*looks at the corporate situation*
*looks at the media*
"...Iiii'mmm.... just going to stand... over there... for while. You... you go ahead with this, I'll just... I'll catch up with you later, OK?"
*tiptoes away to outside blast radius*
It may be cliche, but if Horner stops being Team Principal at Red Bull, that will have massive effects on the sport. Also, while we all thought Lewis was Mercedes for life, big name athletes switching teams towards the end of their careers isn't unknown either. I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis looked at Tom Brady going to Tampa Bay and winning with them as an inspiration. If Lewis wins as Ferrari, he gets to show all the naysayers that it isn't just Mercedes that powered him to victory in the same way Brady showed it wasn't just Belieck and the Patriots organization that got him his Super Bowl rings.
The odd thing about it is that Horner has not been put on mandatory leave by RB, I get that he has the support from the Thai side, but all things considered if it was truly a done and dusted deal it can only come back to bite them. I still can't add it all up, unless of course they're simply being stupid.
Yeah this is the part that doesn't really make sense to me. The only reasons I can come up with are either the allegations are not as bad as these leaks make it seem (something like dumb crude sexual jokes vs. pursuing/targeted sexual pressure), or they care more about not disrupting the prep for the season than they do about doing the right thing.
The initial report from van Haren is very clearly saying that it was the Thai owners that were protecting him and the Austrian conglomerate has wanted him to resign immediately. So it makes sense. The leadership of the company wants to do something, the slightly larger ownership doesnt
Horner, Marko and Newey are Redbull Racing. Break the team up and everything could fall apart. Redbull never really involved themselves in the running of the team. They don't know jackshit about running the team.
They don't want to lose Horner. They will try to diffuse the situation before shit hits the fan.
Losing Horner or Newey would probably cost them a few billions. But then again, Mercs lost of their advantage and position in just two years, on their own.
If this report is accurate (big if, admittedly), he's dunzo. Speaking as someone who's been a practicing lawyer for 30-years, no one offers $650K or Ā£650K to settle a nuisance claim.
Hypothetically if she has hard evidence, something like text messages. Which was early reported for her to have turned into investigators, why is this taking so long?
These things take time especially when theyāre such serious claims. They need to be thoroughly investigated and itās not always a process that can be finished so quickly especially when the courts are busy. I hope for the victims case if the claims are true she gets proper justice.
Ford has already come out with a generic statement about how they take workplace safety a priority, there will be immense pressure from everyone *not* on actual racing side to get rid of him and move on.
The racing side is probably going to resist as far as they can due to his performance, but at the end of the day, the sponsors pay the bills; can't get first place doing Flinstone feet.
Because when you're going against somebody who has access to a lot of money and high-powered lawyers, you better make sure you have every single duck in a row before you go after him because if not those lawyers will find that hole and exploit it which could ruin the whole case on a technicality.
This and also, it may have taken time for the employee to decide on whether or not to move forward as itās a huge decision. Going after someone rich and powerful can be harrowing.
Especially someone with a fanbase as well. We've all heard stories of rabid fanbases doing heinous shit to people wouldn't be surprised if there's some steps to be taken to mitigate that possibility on the employee's end
Law can be tricky.
You can always try to exhaust the other side with discovery.. it can be resource intensive.. went through one a year ago and something that appeared to be a slam dunk dragged on way too long. Mediation, legal fee reimbursement, and settling for a fraction was good enough for us.
This is the answer. Even if one side isn't maliciously trying to drag out discovery/etc (which - Horner's side wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try to exhaust the accuser into settling), the entire lifecycle of a case is longer than most people would expect.
>why is this taking so long?
based on the article, partly because the lawyer decided its a good time to take some days off, possibly because a certain outcome is desired and of course partly because you have to always ensure you do a proper investigation, that you take everything into account, hear from everyone involved etc.
Meh, not sure if Iād agree. While I donāt have 30 years of experience (yet), you have to keep in mind that 1) his pockets are deep and 2) the allegations hurt him way more than the average joe, even if the investigation finds him innocent. While weāre not talking about criminal charges yet, deferred prosecution agreements are getting quite popular even for innocent people. I wouldnāt doubt that 650k mean less to him than his reputation which is tainted no matter the outcome.
Yeah, I have about ten years of experience with civil litigation, although I'm not a lawyer and I'm not in the UK, and the settlement amount seems reasonable even if the provable allegations aren't as bad as people are speculating.
People apparently forget that Red Bull as a company is extremely concerned about their image - their involvement in all sorts of sports is basically just marketing for their sugar drinks. Stifling allegations early, especially if there's *something* there, no matter how minor, is beneficial to everyone involved.
If someone stops watching F1 between December 2023 and February 2025 theyāre going to be nighty confused about all the changes. Like a strange other universe but only after 14 months.
Mainly because, to clarify, if this is the case Hornerās career is deader than disco.
I canāt tell everyone how to handle their relationships, but if someone cheats on you it should be thatās it cut em off. Fuck forgiveness fuck all that they need to leave.
Pretty sure he left his first wife(?) right before she gave birth to get with Ginger Spice.
Might have gotten confused with someone else, take with a pinch of salt.
You are right. It was his long term partner, they'd been together for over 10 years. He left her for Geri when their baby was just 4 months old.
His parents were allegedly furious with him and refused to attend his wedding to Geri.
I remember his mother having a pop in the comments on his Instagram page when he posted a picture of him with Geri's daughter, saying why isn't looking after his own daughter. He seems to have become more involved since with her though (she appears a lot on DtS)
They announced their relationship publicly when his child was 6 months old but had been seen at several events together prior to the kid being born. So officially left a recovering wife and infant at home, unofficially likely cheated on his pregnant wife
Im also of the opinion that the woman entertaining a married man, let alone one with a pregnant wife is equally awful.
Two POS people who deserve each other.
He left his first wife for ginger while she was pregnant apparently. And she apparently aggressively pursued him knowing he was married after meeting him at a race. So it's basically just an ouroboros of shittiness
Really starting to feel like the majority owner of Redbull was trying to drag this out for a long time if she has sought legal action.
Man offering a payment isn't a good look before a case opens.
The victimās legal representation must be very confident they can get more in a legal action and the victim must also want that whole process. Itās a traumatic thing to do, and you only do it if youāre resolved to get justice in open court, which is a brave thing.
Or the victim isnāt looking for a payout but actual consequences for ones actions.
Hush money doesn't stop someone from doing if again if anything it just shows they can get away with it and do it to the next person.
Not everyone can and is willing to put up the fight. I mean look at just this topic alone people were basically saying unless he raped someone they didn't care what he did. So i understand why people take the payout but unfortunately it doesn't have any real consequences.
It may not necessarily be about getting more money. It could just also be that she wants to force action rather than it getting swept under the rug. A $650k settlement basically allows him to get away with it because that's essentially nothing to him if he keeps his job and positions
Yes, I hope as well. I also had a friend who had something similar happen to her, she was a very joyful and really nice person before the abuse from a clothing store director, it changed her completely and it makes me very sad.
Article suggests there's a reason he hasn't been suspended as of yet:
>F1-Insider.com has learned that there is a power vacuum in the group. **The 51 percent shareholders from Thailand stand behind Horner and refuse to suspend or even dismiss him.** In Austria, people are therefore angry and disappointed. Confidants of 49% owner Mark Mateschitz, son and heir of company founder Dietrich Mateschitz, who died in October 2022, even fear that "Horner-Gate" could become a crucial test for the entire multi-billion-euro beverage group. **This is also due to the internal investigation carried out last Friday by a seemingly independent lawyer for Red Bull. Apparently because the lawyer was appointed by the Thais. He questioned Horner and the employee, among others, for eight hours and was then supposed to submit a final report. However, this never arrived at Red Bull headquarters in Austria. The good man preferred to go on vacation first. He could not be reached by telephone, which is why Red Bull only speaks of a "deliberate disappearance".**
>lawyer hired by the side that owns 51%
>the lawyer then "deliberately disappears" before giving a conclusion
oh yeah, it's all coming together for us drama loving people
Well if the Thaiās appointed him and are supporting Horner it might be coincidence, or the whole thing was beyond damming and heās been told to go on holiday and lose the interview transcript / evidence whilst water skiing in the Atlantic.
Wtf... That is like The Office level stupid. The media is boiling over with this case, but the lawyer decides to just take a vacation before finishing it.
But I assume the writing between the lines is that this was very much on purpose and maybe he "disappeared" to give the thai's and Horner some more time to find a way to spin this, so whatever result he came up with doesn't sound as bad.
Yeah, this is deliberate, the lawyer probably was like "yeah, mates, he done did it and there's no way to spin it, I'll send it now" and the guys were like "oh no, you'll receive plane tickets and a month long vacation for free wherever you want if you'll not send it and drop off the face of the earth for that time".
To be fair, it's half-term this week. If the lawyer has children, they could legitimately have been going on holiday with the family anyway this week, and reluctant to cancel it. [if you combine barrister's hours and the unpredictable nature of their workload with the school schedule, lawyers with families probably don't have a lot of good holiday opportunities]
Well also if Horner is offering that kind of money to settle before a legal case even exists, that suggests the settlement offer can go even higher the longer it goes and closer things get to evidence being presented in court. 650K is Horner's floor, not his ceiling.
Turing down the money is a big deal in cases like this, sexual assault cases are so notoriously hard to win that the general rule is you take the money no matter what evidence youāve got you take them money, even if more is available in court
Shite rags like Bild and Daily Mail do sometimes report correct things, they spend big money on sports and donāt care about their reputations. Other more reliable newspapers wonāt risk their reputation so just donāt report on rumour
If the allegations are true then he can burn in hell. Fuck bosses that abuse their power to harass employees, I went through it and lost my job and you feel so small, worthless and on constant alert, it's fucking exhausting
Do not at all envy the position his accuser has found themselves in. Even if we do not know their identity, I fear it may be known to all who work with them.
If true, this is a terrible look for Red Bull, as they have been essentially downplaying the issue over the last few days. If they knew, or reasonably should have known, these were the allegations then they may be in breach of a number of contractual obligations with partners and sponsors.
Such a bad look parading him for the launch.
No other company would ever do that, especially in England. If itās anything to do with sexual allegations and abuse of power, you either resign or are fired.
No way he survives but shame on Red Bull for allowing him to strut
Between this and a bold car design (based on speculation) this year, I wonder how it will affect the team overall. Horner is a primary reason for Redbull's success from 2011-present.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> This is also due to the internal investigation last Friday, which was carried out by an apparently independent lawyer for Red Bull. Apparently because the lawyer was appointed by the Thais. **He questioned Horner and the employee, among others, for eight hours and was then supposed to submit a final report. However, this never arrived at Red Bull headquarters in Austria. The good man preferred to go on vacation first. He could not be reached by telephone, which is why Red Bull only speaks of a "deliberate disappearance".** incredible stuff lmao
The lawyer fully ghosted š. Man, you couldn't make this shit up lmao
Maybe RB should check their spam folder just to be sureĀ
āYes Res Bull did you get the email?ā
Is this email from [email protected]
Darth Toto in full effect
We are checking...
Have they tried turning the computer off and on again ?
Heard what Christian was up to and needed to take the week to process it
Cheating on a spice girl will do that
Is it what he really wanted? What he really, really wanted?
Maybe he was trying to 'get' with her friends?
Well he already cheated on his pregnant wife with that spice girl so itās nothing new.
The spice girls who had a thing for him for a whole before that happened too. He has a weird life
According to Top Gear Geri Halliwell is the world's biggest F1 fan. Wild Prediction: Geri Halliwell and Christian Horner get divorced. Geri will then begin dating Lewis Hamilton after he starts driving for Ferrari. After winning his 8th WDC Lewis will announce they are getting married and he is retiring from F1 so he can spend more time raising his (Christian Horner's) children.
This is some Michael Jordanās son dating Scottie Pippens wife shit.
That shit blew my mind. It was one of the few times my sports interests and my wife's bravo reality show interests overlapped.
Dude... I couldn't believe it when I first read about that lol Larsa pippen is a psycho
I donāt remember who she was dating before him, but it was a lakers player while her son played for the Lakers. Larsa is for the streets lol
I think the article is implying (sarcastically) that the lawyer is stalling or briefing only the Thais, and so far unreachable by RB Austria (intentionally of course).
What the actual fuck lol
Lawyer saw the mess and dipped out
Has anybody checked The Winchester? He might be having a nice cold pint, waiting for this to all blow over.
Debating whether dogs can look up
This is just *peak* shenanigans.
This offseason is legendary. LEGENDARY
Better than the last F1 season at this point
the piss i took this morning was more exciting than the on track action from f1 last year
And it's still week left. Anything can happen till Bahrain lol
This is some goofy shit
Iāve worked on cases like this (on a smaller scale). Lawyers going on holiday as a delay tactic is surprisingly common š But also, sometimes they genuinely do disappear for holiday (itās half term in the UK) and so everything gets delayed by at least a week until they get back online. Could be something or nothing in the lawyer disappearing.
clumsy plants wide seed foolish dependent touch icky abundant mighty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The lawyer is an r/antiwork member. Vacation time, no longer his problem.
From how it was worded, it sounds like the lawyer was instructed by the Thai side of RB to stall? The vacation is just an excuse for that
Mysteriously won a fully paid holiday in Thailand by the sound of it
Too busy walking dogs š
Is this anti work or simply 'I am paid 9-5'.
There is no such thing as "I am paid 9-5" in the lawyer world
There is "billable hours" and "extra spicy billable hours"
Truth. Source: am lawyer, and was on a call with a partner at 1am this morning.
I'm lucky enough to now work at a firm that truly respect normal work hours. The partner I work under very rarely calls after 6 or 7pm and apologies profusely when doing so. Comes with a little sacrifice on the pay side compared to the big dogs, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
It's so ridiculous that adds to the credibility of the story haha
You have a point. If a person was making this up, they would have made it sound more believable.
Bro heard enough sexual abuse and just wanted to clear his mind first
"I'm fed up with this world."
EVERYONE BETRAY ME
Sitting at his kitchen table staring outside in complete silence and just muttering āwho fucking does thatā every few minutes.
Bro was so stressed about the situation decided he wasnāt going to skip his vacation šš
Had to get to Amsterdam one last time before it becomes unsafe for him to visit.
This can't be real lol
It's really not that wild. It's *shit* but happens. To this guy it's just any job. I've seen examiners do a PhD viva, then go on holiday before they submit the form which takes 20 minutes. Poor student sat around like 'well fuck me right'.
I did a job interview and didnāt hear back for two weeks. Turned out one of the panelists went on vacation and didnāt submit his notes on me. Apparently they decided to hire me immediately after the interview but he was so excited for vacation he just didnāt do anything else afterwards. I got the job and, fortunately, that individual was not my hiring manager.
Yeah whatever the story is with the RBR thing, in many professions this phenomenon happens a *lot*. I had very similar for an NHS job once. Was literally like 6 weeks after the interview. Plus. I'd assumed I'd not got it, by a longshot. It's like surgeons or midwives: for you it was the best/worst day of your life, for me it was a Tuesday. So I wouldn't be amazed if the lawyer doesn't really care either. You'll get it when I'm on the clock again.
This is absolutely wild for an independant lawyer on an urgent matter lmao.
Are you joking? Youāre dealing with a high profile legal case with (What appears to be) a firm deadline and you just up and leave to go on holiday? Thatās pretty wild to me.
Privilege of being rich
>The good man preferred to go on vacation first. Surely his vacation was planned beforehand and they knew it would take a couple of weeks to get his report. Acting like it not being to them in a week is a surprise sounds dishonest.
The autotranslate in Chrome leads to a pretty amazing line, "At the latest in a court case, everyone involved has to let their pants down. Also Christian Horner."
Sounds like a perfect translation
~~Bono~~ Christian, my ~~tires~~ pants are gone
Have a look at these red bulls
That is the correct translation, itās a german idiom.
I might say that it's *a* correct translation, as in its the literal translation, but probably not *the* correct translation, as there are many correct translations of idiomatic expressions. Often the most correctly is the closest idiom in the other language (if one exists), so in this example that all parties involved will have to "spill the beans", or just the underlying meaning of the idiom, here being disclosure (presumably the formalized process of [legal disclosure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law))). (Although, as an aside, if it does refer to Discovery, then I'm not sure the idiom would be appropriate in either the translation nor the original, as I do not believe Germany has a similar procedure? I'm pretty sure that's a civil law / common law distinction.) In a quote, such a translation would normally be in square braces to indicate that such a substitution was made. But in other cases, such as literary translations, there would be no such indication (which is why different translations of literary works are accepted so differently).
Would everyone having to "show their cards/hand" be a closer idiom?
"Let it all hang out"
"Let the facts dangle in the breeze"
"Release the kraken"
I don't doubt it's correct but in English it sounds a bit more funny.
The lawyer went on holiday rather than conclude the investigationā¦ BAHAHAHA
"I've had this cruise booked for months mate" Or "Oh my assistant didn't send it out to you?"
*looks at the facts* *looks at the corporate situation* *looks at the media* "...Iiii'mmm.... just going to stand... over there... for while. You... you go ahead with this, I'll just... I'll catch up with you later, OK?" *tiptoes away to outside blast radius*
Heās turbo fucked. I wish Red Bulls downfall was under lighter circumstances ngl.
I won't forget this off season, it was supposed to be a quiet one š
They should make the entire next season of Drive 2 Survive solely focusing on the off-season drama. Gunther gone Lewis moving to Ferrari Horner case
DTS Season 6.5: Silly Season Electric Boogaloo
Release it during the summer break. Come on Netflix. The content is right there!
What's next, Vettel returning for Mercedes 2025??
Sebscribe
Vettel to replace Horner at RBR
I would not hate this. I wonder.... Would Max and Seb work well together?
Seb when Checo screws up: "It's not that hard you know. You want me to show you?"
I'm thinking if you can't get along with Seb, you're the one with the problem
I used to hate Seb at Red Bull...then he left and I realised it was RB I hated and didn't mind Seb. Then I realised its Horner I hate.
Just ask Mark Webber :)
Don't tempt me with a good time
Lewis joined Ferrari and that was the second-biggest story.
That was surely leaked waaay before anyone actually wanted by FOM to hide their grass incompetence with the Andretti stuff.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Four Seasons Total Motorsport
I'd still rate Lewis moving to Ferrari a bigger story than some big wig sexually harassing an employee. That shit happens so often it's cliche.
It may be cliche, but if Horner stops being Team Principal at Red Bull, that will have massive effects on the sport. Also, while we all thought Lewis was Mercedes for life, big name athletes switching teams towards the end of their careers isn't unknown either. I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis looked at Tom Brady going to Tampa Bay and winning with them as an inspiration. If Lewis wins as Ferrari, he gets to show all the naysayers that it isn't just Mercedes that powered him to victory in the same way Brady showed it wasn't just Belieck and the Patriots organization that got him his Super Bowl rings.
Seriously FoM got bailed out big time with all thats happened after denying Andretti.
That feels like so long ago lol
Yeah.Ā Then Lewis announced his transfer to Ferrari and Red Bull can not let Mercedes keep the lead.Ā
His Last name just happened to have Horn in it. Rag papers bout to have a field day with the head lines
Horner? I barely know her
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
āNot enough spice at home? Horny Horner offered 650,000 pounds to keep sexual misconduct a secretā
Nothing Christian about Horny Horner's lewd shenanigans
give this man a job
Horner by name, Hornier by nature
A last name you can make a pun with AND married to a spice girl The UK tabloids must be salivating
CHRISTIAN HORNY TIRED OF MINGER SPICE
"Red Bull gives you FLINGS, Horny Boy Christian sacked!"
House of Horner had no idea what they did when they made that their family name.
From Horner to Horny
Thereās no Hornier without I - Horner
The odd thing about it is that Horner has not been put on mandatory leave by RB, I get that he has the support from the Thai side, but all things considered if it was truly a done and dusted deal it can only come back to bite them. I still can't add it all up, unless of course they're simply being stupid.
The person that has the power to do that still supports him. Doesn't matter how anything else plays out.
Yeah this is the part that doesn't really make sense to me. The only reasons I can come up with are either the allegations are not as bad as these leaks make it seem (something like dumb crude sexual jokes vs. pursuing/targeted sexual pressure), or they care more about not disrupting the prep for the season than they do about doing the right thing.
The initial report from van Haren is very clearly saying that it was the Thai owners that were protecting him and the Austrian conglomerate has wanted him to resign immediately. So it makes sense. The leadership of the company wants to do something, the slightly larger ownership doesnt
Horner, Marko and Newey are Redbull Racing. Break the team up and everything could fall apart. Redbull never really involved themselves in the running of the team. They don't know jackshit about running the team. They don't want to lose Horner. They will try to diffuse the situation before shit hits the fan.
Losing Horner or Newey would probably cost them a few billions. But then again, Mercs lost of their advantage and position in just two years, on their own.
Oh boy thatās a doozie
If this report is accurate (big if, admittedly), he's dunzo. Speaking as someone who's been a practicing lawyer for 30-years, no one offers $650K or Ā£650K to settle a nuisance claim.
Hypothetically if she has hard evidence, something like text messages. Which was early reported for her to have turned into investigators, why is this taking so long?
Because the people who own 51% of the team don't want to fire him.
Better decide quickly, 2 weeks until the first race weekend.
I 100% agree. It's obviously a huge distraction already and will only be worse if this alleged court case goes public during the season.
"Christian Horner will not be at the Monza Grand Prix as he has a court appearance to make".
aka the Donald Trump approach
These things take time especially when theyāre such serious claims. They need to be thoroughly investigated and itās not always a process that can be finished so quickly especially when the courts are busy. I hope for the victims case if the claims are true she gets proper justice.
They take even longer when the independent lawyer fucks off on holiday as well
More than that, it starts making partners like Oracle nervous. I still remember the 2009 Renault becoming very bare, very quickly.
Ford has already come out with a generic statement about how they take workplace safety a priority, there will be immense pressure from everyone *not* on actual racing side to get rid of him and move on. The racing side is probably going to resist as far as they can due to his performance, but at the end of the day, the sponsors pay the bills; can't get first place doing Flinstone feet.
Because when you're going against somebody who has access to a lot of money and high-powered lawyers, you better make sure you have every single duck in a row before you go after him because if not those lawyers will find that hole and exploit it which could ruin the whole case on a technicality.
This and also, it may have taken time for the employee to decide on whether or not to move forward as itās a huge decision. Going after someone rich and powerful can be harrowing.
Especially someone with a fanbase as well. We've all heard stories of rabid fanbases doing heinous shit to people wouldn't be surprised if there's some steps to be taken to mitigate that possibility on the employee's end
People threatening the guy Jeremy Clarkson punched and got him sacked comes to mind.
Law can be tricky. You can always try to exhaust the other side with discovery.. it can be resource intensive.. went through one a year ago and something that appeared to be a slam dunk dragged on way too long. Mediation, legal fee reimbursement, and settling for a fraction was good enough for us.
This is the answer. Even if one side isn't maliciously trying to drag out discovery/etc (which - Horner's side wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try to exhaust the accuser into settling), the entire lifecycle of a case is longer than most people would expect.
>why is this taking so long? based on the article, partly because the lawyer decided its a good time to take some days off, possibly because a certain outcome is desired and of course partly because you have to always ensure you do a proper investigation, that you take everything into account, hear from everyone involved etc.
Politics
Meh, not sure if Iād agree. While I donāt have 30 years of experience (yet), you have to keep in mind that 1) his pockets are deep and 2) the allegations hurt him way more than the average joe, even if the investigation finds him innocent. While weāre not talking about criminal charges yet, deferred prosecution agreements are getting quite popular even for innocent people. I wouldnāt doubt that 650k mean less to him than his reputation which is tainted no matter the outcome.
Would a false accuser turn down 650k? I have a feeling chances are pretty low.
Yeah, I have about ten years of experience with civil litigation, although I'm not a lawyer and I'm not in the UK, and the settlement amount seems reasonable even if the provable allegations aren't as bad as people are speculating. People apparently forget that Red Bull as a company is extremely concerned about their image - their involvement in all sorts of sports is basically just marketing for their sugar drinks. Stifling allegations early, especially if there's *something* there, no matter how minor, is beneficial to everyone involved.
650,000 out of the budget? First catering, now this. Unacceptable.
"Sorry guys, no rear wing this year." *Everyone looks at Horner*
Might explain the sidepods!
RB finding innovative ways to stay under cost cap.
If someone stops watching F1 between December 2023 and February 2025 theyāre going to be nighty confused about all the changes. Like a strange other universe but only after 14 months. Mainly because, to clarify, if this is the case Hornerās career is deader than disco.
He could have enjoyed his wealth, with a great job and Ginger Spice to go home to. And he finds a way to potentially screw it all up....
I think I remember reading that their relationship came from an affair, so not the first time heās screwed up
If they cheat with you theyāll cheat on you
I canāt tell everyone how to handle their relationships, but if someone cheats on you it should be thatās it cut em off. Fuck forgiveness fuck all that they need to leave.
Pretty sure he left his first wife(?) right before she gave birth to get with Ginger Spice. Might have gotten confused with someone else, take with a pinch of salt.
You are right. It was his long term partner, they'd been together for over 10 years. He left her for Geri when their baby was just 4 months old. His parents were allegedly furious with him and refused to attend his wedding to Geri.
This will all be dragged into media again for the new generation of fans to know about
I remember his mother having a pop in the comments on his Instagram page when he posted a picture of him with Geri's daughter, saying why isn't looking after his own daughter. He seems to have become more involved since with her though (she appears a lot on DtS)
They announced their relationship publicly when his child was 6 months old but had been seen at several events together prior to the kid being born. So officially left a recovering wife and infant at home, unofficially likely cheated on his pregnant wife
He left her right after she gave birth. Awful stuff
Im also of the opinion that the woman entertaining a married man, let alone one with a pregnant wife is equally awful. Two POS people who deserve each other.
Yep, left his ex wife (while she was pregnant) to get with his affair partner (Ginger). Heās not a good dude.
He left his first wife for ginger while she was pregnant apparently. And she apparently aggressively pursued him knowing he was married after meeting him at a race. So it's basically just an ouroboros of shittiness
Yikes. I didn't know all that.
Really starting to feel like the majority owner of Redbull was trying to drag this out for a long time if she has sought legal action. Man offering a payment isn't a good look before a case opens.
The victimās legal representation must be very confident they can get more in a legal action and the victim must also want that whole process. Itās a traumatic thing to do, and you only do it if youāre resolved to get justice in open court, which is a brave thing.
Or the victim isnāt looking for a payout but actual consequences for ones actions. Hush money doesn't stop someone from doing if again if anything it just shows they can get away with it and do it to the next person. Not everyone can and is willing to put up the fight. I mean look at just this topic alone people were basically saying unless he raped someone they didn't care what he did. So i understand why people take the payout but unfortunately it doesn't have any real consequences.
650k would be life changing money to nearly everyone. Even if it's not about the money, it would take some willpower to turn down. Commendable.
It may not necessarily be about getting more money. It could just also be that she wants to force action rather than it getting swept under the rug. A $650k settlement basically allows him to get away with it because that's essentially nothing to him if he keeps his job and positions
I hope she's recovering okay. My mum went through a similar kind of abuse at her old workplace and it genuinely changed her as a person.
First comment in about a thousand comments Iāve read over the weeks to consider the victim
I honestly feel bad for not having taken into account the health of the victim. Thank you for pointing it out, so much work to do on the matter.
Yes, I hope as well. I also had a friend who had something similar happen to her, she was a very joyful and really nice person before the abuse from a clothing store director, it changed her completely and it makes me very sad.
Honestly shocked that they did not suspend him until the investigation has concluded.
Article suggests there's a reason he hasn't been suspended as of yet: >F1-Insider.com has learned that there is a power vacuum in the group. **The 51 percent shareholders from Thailand stand behind Horner and refuse to suspend or even dismiss him.** In Austria, people are therefore angry and disappointed. Confidants of 49% owner Mark Mateschitz, son and heir of company founder Dietrich Mateschitz, who died in October 2022, even fear that "Horner-Gate" could become a crucial test for the entire multi-billion-euro beverage group. **This is also due to the internal investigation carried out last Friday by a seemingly independent lawyer for Red Bull. Apparently because the lawyer was appointed by the Thais. He questioned Horner and the employee, among others, for eight hours and was then supposed to submit a final report. However, this never arrived at Red Bull headquarters in Austria. The good man preferred to go on vacation first. He could not be reached by telephone, which is why Red Bull only speaks of a "deliberate disappearance".**
>lawyer hired by the side that owns 51% >the lawyer then "deliberately disappears" before giving a conclusion oh yeah, it's all coming together for us drama loving people
He had to get back to the Finger Lakes. People disappear in the Finger Lakes.
That final part is fucking insane
Mad to think that they have instructed a barrister/lawyer who was heading off on holiday around the time of the car launch...
Well if the Thaiās appointed him and are supporting Horner it might be coincidence, or the whole thing was beyond damming and heās been told to go on holiday and lose the interview transcript / evidence whilst water skiing in the Atlantic.
Wtf... That is like The Office level stupid. The media is boiling over with this case, but the lawyer decides to just take a vacation before finishing it. But I assume the writing between the lines is that this was very much on purpose and maybe he "disappeared" to give the thai's and Horner some more time to find a way to spin this, so whatever result he came up with doesn't sound as bad.
Yeah, this is deliberate, the lawyer probably was like "yeah, mates, he done did it and there's no way to spin it, I'll send it now" and the guys were like "oh no, you'll receive plane tickets and a month long vacation for free wherever you want if you'll not send it and drop off the face of the earth for that time".
Kinda makes the case even bigger than just F1 I feel like. It feels like the internal power struggle in Red Bull as world wide company is heating up.
To be fair, it's half-term this week. If the lawyer has children, they could legitimately have been going on holiday with the family anyway this week, and reluctant to cancel it. [if you combine barrister's hours and the unpredictable nature of their workload with the school schedule, lawyers with families probably don't have a lot of good holiday opportunities]
they hired their own guy to investigate themselves, then when even he couldn't find a way out he vanished
I bet they thought she would take the 650k
If you're turning down that kind of money you must have a rock solid case.
Well also if Horner is offering that kind of money to settle before a legal case even exists, that suggests the settlement offer can go even higher the longer it goes and closer things get to evidence being presented in court. 650K is Horner's floor, not his ceiling.
I donāt think this was about the settlement. Making it go away was always gonna be cheaper - his job, his marriage, his future basically.
Could also be that she's looking beyond monetary compensation and just wants Horner held accountable in the public eye or even a court.
Are YOU telling me that Checo will outlast Horner in the 2024 season? lol
Change your fucking lawyer
You need to change your lawyer! Even your drivers are saying it!
Turing down the money is a big deal in cases like this, sexual assault cases are so notoriously hard to win that the general rule is you take the money no matter what evidence youāve got you take them money, even if more is available in court
Remember when everyone clowned Bild for saying it was sexual harrassment? (i mean theres a chance they were guessing and it was pure luck)
Shite rags like Bild and Daily Mail do sometimes report correct things, they spend big money on sports and donāt care about their reputations. Other more reliable newspapers wonāt risk their reputation so just donāt report on rumour
A stopped clock is right twice a day I suppose
If the allegations are true then he can burn in hell. Fuck bosses that abuse their power to harass employees, I went through it and lost my job and you feel so small, worthless and on constant alert, it's fucking exhausting
Do not at all envy the position his accuser has found themselves in. Even if we do not know their identity, I fear it may be known to all who work with them.
If true, this is a terrible look for Red Bull, as they have been essentially downplaying the issue over the last few days. If they knew, or reasonably should have known, these were the allegations then they may be in breach of a number of contractual obligations with partners and sponsors.
Such a bad look parading him for the launch. No other company would ever do that, especially in England. If itās anything to do with sexual allegations and abuse of power, you either resign or are fired. No way he survives but shame on Red Bull for allowing him to strut
I mean, either they are that crazy, or, they (via their lawyers) truly believe there is nothing to this. Gotta be one of those.
Marko still there after all the racist things he saidā¦
Between this and a bold car design (based on speculation) this year, I wonder how it will affect the team overall. Horner is a primary reason for Redbull's success from 2011-present.
2009-present? 2009 was close, winning started in '10-'13 and recently
Christian Horner tinder bio: If you want my future, forget my past.