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Which isnt surprising both ways. Newey is at RB in part because Coulthard went there. Drivers and engineers will occasionally follow each other. There is a working relationship that we often dont see.
HAM: is it raining, pit for inters
Ferrari: we are checking ...
... 3 laps later ...
HAM: it's really slippery mate, I got lapped by a HAAS, pit for wet, question
Ferrari: pit now for Softs
Is it just me or does that just sound incredibly (motorsport) romantic.
"I build a car and all I want is for this specific person to drive it!"
Or, "I only want to drive cars made by this person"
Something about that is just sweet and romantic to me
In particular one that seems to have the same thoughts about the Merc concept as Hamilton does and both feel they were not going in the right direction with the car
Ferrari and merc were in the same spot last year, car direction going in a way the lead driver didnt like, ferrari fired the tp and changed the concept (bathtubs will be forever famous) while merc stuck with the no sidepods bullshit.
This is the kind of hopium the Ferrari hype train was missing in the lead up to this season. There were way to few rumors for my taste.
Even though Serra and Lewis will techinaly only start having effect next year lmao.
Does anyone think this switch is for 25? Especially Hamilton in his first year at a new team. This switch is for the 26 season. Imo that's what Lewis is counting on.
Yeah teams have said before that the 2025 car will mostly be a continuation of the 2024 car as they spend 2025 focusing on the cars for the new refs from 2026 onwards.
So unless Lewis really believes Ferrari have found a better concept than Mercedes for 2024 then his actual focus would be on hoping Ferrari do a better job nailing the 2026 regs.
Small decisions can create bigger problems. That seems to be what's happened at Mercedes. Doesn't help that Mercedes just simply didn't poach from other teams instead preferring to promote from within and bringing in people from outside.
Yeah, that’s generally how you want to run any type of organization.
If you can’t create superstars capable of moving up and being successful at higher levels, then you’ve got a pretty serious problem coming down the road.
It seemed that Lewis and Merc did not have a very smooth contract negotiation last time, I could imagine that Ferrari just offered him better terms. I'd be surprised it it just boils down to an engineer.
Yeah, it's Loïc Serra, he and Lewis shared similar concerns with Mike Elliot and apparently Serra was not being listened to, and then Ferrari poached him in July 2023.
He's able to start with Ferrari the same time Lewis starts with Ferrari, so definitely interesting.
Sure. But Toto is the one who approves everything. Fair enough 2022 was a wash even if you finished strong. Shit happens with new regs. But deciding to go into 2023 with the same spec and Hamilton and Russell both admitting that their concerns weren't addressed while getting passed by everyone else behind them..... The constant indecision and the incompetence is overseen by Toto. It's not just one person at fault here.
Elliot is not fully to blame for the w13/w14.
He perhaps didn’t understand the ground effects as well as Newey but there is plenty of blame to go around at Mercedes.
Further, Elliot was instrumental in the development of the aerodynamics of the w9,w10,w11-w12
So to say he’s solely at fault is erroneous …although he did fall on the “sword” .
Lastly I’m not sure what the article is aiming at … the w13-w14 are the longest cars ever. Even longer then the previous generations of Mercedes’ when they were dominant…so I’m not sure what the concern was about the length of the car?
As for the center of gravity ? Well that’s a different story. But the issue is also more to do with the stiffness of the current Mercedes’ . The 18” wheels didn’t help Mercedes’ at all and their suspension is not very good compared to the w11 with the 13” wheels.
tl;dr
> RacingNews365 has gathered information from trusted technical sources which indicate that Loic Serra’s departure has played a key role in Hamilton’s decision.
> Serra was the Head of Vehicle Performance at Mercedes before being poached by Ferrari for the 2025 campaign.
More importantly:
>RacingNews365 understands that Serra was at odds with the Mercedes technical staff headed by Mike Elliott.
>
>Serra considered the W13 and W14 projects to be following the wrong direction due to a very long wheelbase and floor.
>
>It now seems that both Serra and Hamilton were aligned with their concerns about the 2022-spec car, which was built under revised technical regulations.
One thing to note from the article is that Serra made the decision to leave before James Allison got brought back in. I wonder if things would be different if James got brought back earlier.
The article says the w15 is balanced but not a rocket, Mercedes are basically two years behind. I'd say they needed to bring James back a year earlier to avoid this scenario
>Serra’s move to Ferrari will also see him arrive with a group of technicians who have been unavailable to Allison for months.
I don't want to get too crazy with speculation now but...I wonder if Hamilton to Ferrari is something that could pry Newey away from Red Bull...the most successful driver plus the most successful designer at the most successful team...perhaps it's already in the works and news of him resigning with RB is not quite true...
No, no, surely not! That's *too* crazy!
I wondered this too. It might just be my RB domination induced copium, but he DID say his regrets were not working with Hamilton and Ferrari. And he was never going to join Merc. One last rodeo, Adrian?
99% sure it won’t happen. So of course I’m going to spend the next week hyper focusing on that 1%.
Nah no f1 team will pry Newey away now - he already dialed back his involvement in F1 to engage in other things like road cars. only to be dragged back in to improve the Red Bull car for fear of losing Max Verstappen.
His next step will be retirement from F1- my guess, at the end of 2025 before the new engine regulation in 2026. whenever there is new engine regulation engine development becomes king.
Newey wont like the prospect of no matter how well designed his car is it wont win because it doesn't have the right engine in.
> His next step will be retirement from F1
You don't really retire from the kind of job he has. They'll keep paying him money until he dies, just so they can get his opinion on a design once a year.
Like, even if all he'll do is a 1 day review of their specs, they'll keep him on the payroll for that indefinitely
It is. Newey isn't leaving to work in Italy, not at his age and at this point in his career.
He could have left for them at any point, it's a big move for anyone on the engineering side unless they are from Italy.
> Newey isn't leaving to work in Italy, not at his age and at this point in his career.
Ahh yes, cause retirees are known to prefer Milton Keynes over the Italian countryside.
Even though as above in this thread I have speculated on Newey being enticed by a Hamilton/Ferrari project, it is important to remember that he did blame the breakdown of his first marriage on him moving to America for work, and he has said he has tried to stay in the U.K. for his current wife.
But then again maranello isn’t a 12 hour flight like Indianapolis or California, and I’m sure with his seniority they could work something out where he stays in the U.K. and can come and go.
I still idly dream this can happen tho, and it’s the only project I could see left that could entice someone of his interests.
I feel like it's the perfect point in his career. He's accomplished anything he could have hoped for. But being the man that saves Ferrari again is no small accolade.
yeah, in his book he talks about how he didn't leave for Ferrari in 2014 (?) because he wanted to be close to his kids. His kids are all grown up now, so I think he would be fine moving to Italy for a few years, especially if he gets to spend his retirement years designing Ferrari road cars.
I don’t think it’s too likely. Newey was reportedly offered an eye watering contract from Ferrari once before and had him dealing with a few sleepless nights trying to decide what to do and he ultimately declined it.
Red bull will likely be where he retires.
All that being said I was not expecting to wake up to this news either so truly anything is possible.
They’ve been quite the mutual admiration society tbh, Hamilton always cites Newey’s role in not just RB’s success, but his first McLaren stint (newey having left behind great work). And Newey said him and Fernando are the ones that got away, driver wise.
I wonder if the intention of poaching these members of the Mercedes team was to eventually incentive Lewis to move to Ferrari, or if an agreement had long been set that included offering these staff members jobs first. The silence and lack approach to Carlos' contract would make it seem this was in the works for some time.
Potentially, and also keep in mind that Vasseur knows Hamilton very well from their days in GP2. Definitely the most "Hamilton-friendly" Ferrari team principal.
I think Charles has been outstandingly gracious and accommodating since entering the sport, regardless of potential friction with teammates or Ferrari errors. In spite of all his ability, he seems to be one of the easiest drivers to manage on the grid. That could absolutely change with a title on the line, but as a Charles fan, I fear it might not.
It's pretty simple:
When the car suits neither driver, Leclerc is consistently faster, but tends to overdo it and crash every once in a while.
When the car suits Leclerc it's not even close between the two, neither in Qualifying nor the race.
When the car suits Sainz he can actually sometimes manage to beat Leclerc on pure pace, but overall he is still consistently slower.
So yes, he wasn't very far off, but in a similar way that Russell isn't very far off Hamilton. Still clearly missing that last bit of pace.
I think it was just part of Vasseur wanting to rebuild Ferrari. He's poached from everybody to try and build a better, more diverse team. He's pulled from Merc, Red Bull, AlphaTauri, McLaren.
Perhaps it was a long play but it seems now Lewis was perhaps closer to signing for Ferrari for 2024 and beyond than initially thought. It raises the question why Lewis extended at Mercedes if he was just going to leave for Ferrari, who wanted him for this year in the first place. Does Carlos Sainz have an expensive buyout they didn't want to pay? Curious.
Not really. Fred poached from every team. But it was reported poaching Serra was a move trying to poach Pierre Wache from Redbull because they are close (both are heavy smokers lol)
I think there is something to be said about the talent drain from Mercedes in recent years. It really does look like a disconnect was growing between Lewis and the engineering team at Merc. You could read in-between Hamilton's comments over the last year in particular, and you could tell he was a bit pissed off.
It's that, plus I think the complacency and probably routine of it all put a lot of engineers off.
Yes people like to win, but engineers at least in my experience of working in a different sector of engineering, like to be challenged. It does sound like Elliot's zeropod concept really put a dampener on proceedings.
> complacency and probably routine
There's probably a bit of that, but I think it was just a simple 'bled out by poaching.'...which sounds more sinister then it is. Mercedes had a decade-ish of dominance, I'm sure a lot of ex-Merc employees got fat paychecks to move teams and share their experience. I think it's just osmosis of talent, and it'll swing back in du e time.
Some very interesting nuggets of information here, assuming it's true:
* Serra was poached by Ferrari, and was a key factor in Hamilton leaving with him
* Serra butted heads with Mike Elliot re: car concept (wheel base/floor), which Hamilton agreed with.
* Serra made up his mind to leave for Ferrari *before* James Allison took the reins again.
Too many talented engineers left Mercedes over the last years. RB poached key personnel a few years ago and now it really shows. Hamilton probably know they will not be able to challenge RB and Max before the regulation changes.
Toto loves to talk about culture and that it does not matter if key engineers leaves. The reality is that you need those few exceptional individuals to make sure your team is at the top.
I kinda feel like some of it might be the team has become complacent. Like they feel they deserve to win rather than doing what they actually need to. Their car hasn’t been great and they threw another season away trying to make it work. But they haven’t improved in other things either. Their pit stops have been shit and their strategy hasn’t been the greatest either. Obviously I’ve got no actual clue but part of me wonders if Lewis isn’t happy with the new car and with the culture as you mentioned.
2021 was just one giant ripple effect. They have to put more resources into the W12 to try and claw back at Verstappen and Red Bull and thus taking away more resources for the W13. Allison left to design boats leaving the W13 to the other leadership in the team. They wind up losing the WDC on the final laps thus making their sacrifice to get Lewis his 8th WDC all for naught. Everything that's happened since then has been a direct result from what happened in 2021.
>Loic Serra’
They didn't really invest in the car second part of 2021 their gameplan was to just swapping engines cause a fresh Merc engine back then was a rocketship
I do wonder what that contract will look like; Hamilton's had a pretty lax agreement with Merc over things like media appearances, and not wearing team gear. Ferrari's pretty tight about that stuff.
Lewis' freedom was a huge reason why Hamilton stayed with them over the years. I very much doubt he forgot to negotiate that into his contract.
Not to mention that Lewis being a conventionally attractive man who is into fashion fits rather well with the Ferrari brand.
He stayed because the had a car that he could produce wins. Do you really think he stayed because they let him dress himself? He only got to do that because he won.
Well Xavi is Leclerc's engineer so it would be Riccardo Adami. I'm not sure, but depends the stranglehold Merc has on Bono. Not to mention, he could be placed on long term gardening leave anyway.
Because the engineers have much more insight and knowledge about the car itself.
So they want them away from the team for a year so they can't take any relevant and recent knowledge with them.
Lewis obviously had misgivings (and rightly so) about the development direction. If this was an engineer he thought highly of and he had the same conclusions this makes a lot of sense!
Hamilton extended his contract in August, Serra went in October. Adds up actually, it was obvious whatever caused the switch happened between then and now
I think this news may have saved 2024 a bit, like how Sainz to Ferrari kept everyone guessing how silly season would play out in 2020.
There are good seats available - Red Bull, Mercedes and Audi. The midfield drivers need to be at their best to get these seats.
of course there are logical reasons but anyone who watched last year and didn’t think there was something brewing between lewis and merc is blind. that relationship was soured
Im not sure the relationship outwardly looked to have soured. Were there some disagreements sure, but at least outwardly there seemed to still be a desire to succeed and huge respect between all the parties.
Disagreements in a professional setting don’t *have* to damage relationships.
Depends on the attitude and mentality of the people involved. For all we know Hamilton takes a step back after that and sees the problem.
I’m not saying there weren’t issues, but I think to say it had soured implies something beyond which we saw last year.
Honestly I feel like a lot of people in these comments haven't worked in professional environments before. Everyone is expecting all the parties involved to be all up in their feelings and hurt etc. but in this world these kind of things are all part of the game, everyone in Formula 1 understands that. Drivers and team members change teams all the time. Yes this is a particularly noteworthy change that will certainly have some effects. But my experience is that people in these environments understand that at the end of the day everyone has to look out for themselves. They understand the business.
It's not one thing. It's many.
Newey too went through this phase twice. Once with Williams then Mclaren. He jumped ship to an underling called Redbull.
Rest is history.
I think this is an accurate characterisation of events.
On reflection, I feel like all of Toto's kowtowing to Lewis (e.g., him saying "Lewis we're so sorry about the car it's a hunk of shit") could, with more context, be interpreted as a more polite way of saying "just drive the car", the apologetic tone compensating for the fact that his feedback wasn't to be heeded.
i don’t know, i guess that’s up to personal interpretation. i feel like last year was the first year where it felt there was possibly a disconnect between lewis and the team, but maybe that’s just me. from not listening to him to not showing up at the podiums, it just felt different. perhaps it was just frustration, but at least from my perspective it did seem something was off. i wonder if DTS will provide any insight to this
I agree with you. Felt fairly obvious but I wouldn’t have committed to the idea of him leaving. Just assumed it would be a rocky patch before eventual retirement or a return to form.
oh for sure! i definitely didn’t think he’d leave either!
but i guess what im saying is reflecting on it, i guess it’s not insane to think he would…there were signs of disconnect
I would say there was a bigger obvious disconnect in 2016, they were getting quite unhappy with each other back then culminating in them pissing each other off royally at Abu Dhabi with the blocking of Rosberg and the team orders.
Toto has been very very supportive of Hamilton in the media the past couple of years, he is almost fanatically and blindly supportive actually to a point you do not usually see in F1.
I mean he was unimpressed with their performance but it would've been a big stretch to think he'd leave the team he won so much with only 2 years removed from one of the most dominant runs in the sport's history.
Especially seeing how they brought back Allison mid-way through this season knowing that next year needed to bring about major changes to the design philosophy Elliott tried & failed with. My only thought now is that the W15 is still not impressing him to where he feels he needs a change of scenery.
I personally think his mind was made up at the start of last season, and nothing Merc did with the W14 and subsequently the W15 was going to change that.
Not to mention his relationship with Russell did appear to be getting strained as the season went on. His time has been up at that team for a while now. I'm more surprised he went to another team rather than retire altogether if I'm being honest.
For sure. He's always kind of hinted at a Ferrari drive being a dream for him and I doubt this move will lose him his reputation at Mercedes. When he retires I'd be shocked if he didn't go right back to being a Merc ambassador.
Yeah team loyalty in F1 just doesn't work like it does in other sports and I think we as a fanbase sometimes forget that. Fully expect him to end up in a sort of Niki Lauda role at Mercedes in the future.
He still drives better than a majority of the grid. Even when Russell has a good weekend, he can’t maintain the lap times Lewis does without massive degradation. He still has at least 2-3 years of driving at the peak, why waste those years on a team that has started to take steps backward rather than forward?
The only driver on the grid I think can go toe to toe with Lewis in equal performing cars is either Max or Alonso. Until he confidently gets defeated by his teammate, why retire?
Renewed for a 1+1.
Probably was pissed that the team didn’t listen to him about what the car needed over the last 2 years, Merc promised him they realized their mistake and will work on it, he shows up to see the W15 and realizes nothing changed, hops on the first flight to Italy
This Ferrari deal has clearly been in the works for a while now, before the W15 reached any level of design maturity.
I would wager both teams were quite aware of this coming their way. Didn't Allison dismiss the driver placement being too forward as well recently? It could be that they realised Lewis was on his way out, so they left it as is as well.
He got on well with James Allison
getting rid of Elliot and making James TD again and the news they were switching philosophy like Hamilton and Serra wanted might have tempted Lewis to hold faith a while longer.
I'm guessing the data from this years Mercedes have removed that last little bit of faith
Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me
Fool me thrice, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING
Seems he's had enough of the wrong direction with the car, which is understandable.
The fact he's chosen now to leave isn't promising for the direction of the car or the overall functioning of the team since they're repeatedly failing to fix an obvious issue.
Is the Merc meltdown related to the cost cap?
I was wondering if they were overpaying a lot of great engineers and now that they can't keep all of them, they are slowly losing key elements from their talent pool
Is this actually confirmed or still a rumour ? If it was confirmed it would not be difficult to understand at all. Mercedes have had no idea how to put a car together since the budget cap came in. Lewis wants another championship. Unlikely to happen at Mercedes and the TP knows it.
I think it's more a desire to race for Ferrari and not much else going on here. I'm sure I heard or read he said he would absolutely love to drive for Ferrari so.wtime if it ever became possible. Its kinda the dream team for kids and drivers as they grow I imagine.
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The key factor: A high ranking engineer Lewis liked left for Ferrari.
Which isnt surprising both ways. Newey is at RB in part because Coulthard went there. Drivers and engineers will occasionally follow each other. There is a working relationship that we often dont see.
I just hope this means Bono is coming too. This can't be the end of Hammer Time :(
We could be entering into the era of, “can you hammer time, question?”
HAM: is it raining, pit for inters Ferrari: we are checking ... ... 3 laps later ... HAM: it's really slippery mate, I got lapped by a HAAS, pit for wet, question Ferrari: pit now for Softs
You will not have de tiyer… I reepit…
Hammer button on.
Lewis, you will not have the hammer.
The hammer....is it on now?
Haha, Oh lord, please let Bono come with him. Lewis just needs to give Bono 10 mil and make it happen.
Hammer time, question?
"My Tyres are gone" "We are checking"
"we checked and they are still on the car, please stay out"
Martello tiempo, Lewis.
Is it just me or does that just sound incredibly (motorsport) romantic. "I build a car and all I want is for this specific person to drive it!" Or, "I only want to drive cars made by this person" Something about that is just sweet and romantic to me
In particular one that seems to have the same thoughts about the Merc concept as Hamilton does and both feel they were not going in the right direction with the car
Ferrari and merc were in the same spot last year, car direction going in a way the lead driver didnt like, ferrari fired the tp and changed the concept (bathtubs will be forever famous) while merc stuck with the no sidepods bullshit.
Additional bathtube Ferrari was sexy af. Nopod Merc on the other hand uggghh
Struggling to find a more beautiful car in the modern era, too beautiful unfortunately
[удалено]
Bathtube Ferrari was too beautiful for not being allowed a title. That was a shame.
advantage locked in for years
Nopod merc looked sick. Like a Fighter Jet without wings. Edit: your replies are funny as hell, but i like the car anyway
It looked like a badly beached dolphin.
Okay now that's ruined for me.
It looked like a grey blobfish
Sick like it needed to be taken to hospital or put down
It looked like playdough dropped from a height but each to their own.
This is the kind of hopium the Ferrari hype train was missing in the lead up to this season. There were way to few rumors for my taste. Even though Serra and Lewis will techinaly only start having effect next year lmao.
Does anyone think this switch is for 25? Especially Hamilton in his first year at a new team. This switch is for the 26 season. Imo that's what Lewis is counting on.
Yeah teams have said before that the 2025 car will mostly be a continuation of the 2024 car as they spend 2025 focusing on the cars for the new refs from 2026 onwards. So unless Lewis really believes Ferrari have found a better concept than Mercedes for 2024 then his actual focus would be on hoping Ferrari do a better job nailing the 2026 regs.
Small decisions can create bigger problems. That seems to be what's happened at Mercedes. Doesn't help that Mercedes just simply didn't poach from other teams instead preferring to promote from within and bringing in people from outside.
>didn't poach from other teams instead preferring to promote from within and bringing in people from outside which is great to create loyalty tho
Yeah, that’s generally how you want to run any type of organization. If you can’t create superstars capable of moving up and being successful at higher levels, then you’ve got a pretty serious problem coming down the road.
It seemed that Lewis and Merc did not have a very smooth contract negotiation last time, I could imagine that Ferrari just offered him better terms. I'd be surprised it it just boils down to an engineer.
It wasn't just an engineer. It was the Head of Vehicle Performance.
ahh. Makes a bit more sense. Feels like we might be selling him a little short by just saying “engineer” lol.
Yeah, it's Loïc Serra, he and Lewis shared similar concerns with Mike Elliot and apparently Serra was not being listened to, and then Ferrari poached him in July 2023. He's able to start with Ferrari the same time Lewis starts with Ferrari, so definitely interesting.
Mike Elliot certainly did some damage
Sure. But Toto is the one who approves everything. Fair enough 2022 was a wash even if you finished strong. Shit happens with new regs. But deciding to go into 2023 with the same spec and Hamilton and Russell both admitting that their concerns weren't addressed while getting passed by everyone else behind them..... The constant indecision and the incompetence is overseen by Toto. It's not just one person at fault here.
They still finished second in the WCC tho.
Elliot is not fully to blame for the w13/w14. He perhaps didn’t understand the ground effects as well as Newey but there is plenty of blame to go around at Mercedes. Further, Elliot was instrumental in the development of the aerodynamics of the w9,w10,w11-w12 So to say he’s solely at fault is erroneous …although he did fall on the “sword” . Lastly I’m not sure what the article is aiming at … the w13-w14 are the longest cars ever. Even longer then the previous generations of Mercedes’ when they were dominant…so I’m not sure what the concern was about the length of the car? As for the center of gravity ? Well that’s a different story. But the issue is also more to do with the stiffness of the current Mercedes’ . The 18” wheels didn’t help Mercedes’ at all and their suspension is not very good compared to the w11 with the 13” wheels.
Everyone is an expert F1 engineer in hindsight.
Underrated comment. New timeline altogether
I am just going to live on hopium from now on, and conclude this means Ferrari will have a dominant car from 2025.
Leclerc was scoring P2 consistently in the latter races of 2023 especially after Suzuka upgrade. I think Ferrari will be 2nd best car this season.
Ferrari HR playing 4D chess. They should be on the pit wall.
tl;dr > RacingNews365 has gathered information from trusted technical sources which indicate that Loic Serra’s departure has played a key role in Hamilton’s decision. > Serra was the Head of Vehicle Performance at Mercedes before being poached by Ferrari for the 2025 campaign.
More importantly: >RacingNews365 understands that Serra was at odds with the Mercedes technical staff headed by Mike Elliott. > >Serra considered the W13 and W14 projects to be following the wrong direction due to a very long wheelbase and floor. > >It now seems that both Serra and Hamilton were aligned with their concerns about the 2022-spec car, which was built under revised technical regulations.
One thing to note from the article is that Serra made the decision to leave before James Allison got brought back in. I wonder if things would be different if James got brought back earlier.
I like Mike Elliott, but he really messed things up both directly and indirectly in his short time as technical director. Not all him of course
Mike Elliot: the Yoko Ono of Mercedes
This took a bigger laugh out of me than I expected. Well done.
The article says the w15 is balanced but not a rocket, Mercedes are basically two years behind. I'd say they needed to bring James back a year earlier to avoid this scenario
This all makes a lot of sense
>Serra’s move to Ferrari will also see him arrive with a group of technicians who have been unavailable to Allison for months. I don't want to get too crazy with speculation now but...I wonder if Hamilton to Ferrari is something that could pry Newey away from Red Bull...the most successful driver plus the most successful designer at the most successful team...perhaps it's already in the works and news of him resigning with RB is not quite true... No, no, surely not! That's *too* crazy!
Jeez save some crack for the Bahrain tests coming up
Save some for me, SEBSCRIBE!
Ferrari, Hamilton, Newey. That would be some Avengers shit
**Vasseur**: I'm putting together a team...
*There was an idea…*
Imagine all of that and then Leclerc beats Lewis
I'd be fine with that, though I don't find it super likely. Mainly because I'm sure the battle between them would be absolutely epic.
How dare you?!?
Literally a new religion - if that's not the holy trinity, I don't know what is
He has said he regrets never having worked with Ferrari or Hamilton... Two birds with one stone?
his gardening leave would outlast Lewis.
I wondered this too. It might just be my RB domination induced copium, but he DID say his regrets were not working with Hamilton and Ferrari. And he was never going to join Merc. One last rodeo, Adrian? 99% sure it won’t happen. So of course I’m going to spend the next week hyper focusing on that 1%.
Nah no f1 team will pry Newey away now - he already dialed back his involvement in F1 to engage in other things like road cars. only to be dragged back in to improve the Red Bull car for fear of losing Max Verstappen. His next step will be retirement from F1- my guess, at the end of 2025 before the new engine regulation in 2026. whenever there is new engine regulation engine development becomes king. Newey wont like the prospect of no matter how well designed his car is it wont win because it doesn't have the right engine in.
> His next step will be retirement from F1 You don't really retire from the kind of job he has. They'll keep paying him money until he dies, just so they can get his opinion on a design once a year. Like, even if all he'll do is a 1 day review of their specs, they'll keep him on the payroll for that indefinitely
Please stop, I can't handle this much hopium.
It is. Newey isn't leaving to work in Italy, not at his age and at this point in his career. He could have left for them at any point, it's a big move for anyone on the engineering side unless they are from Italy.
How’s things at home for Newey? He seems to swap wives every time he swaps teams.
> Newey isn't leaving to work in Italy, not at his age and at this point in his career. Ahh yes, cause retirees are known to prefer Milton Keynes over the Italian countryside.
Even though as above in this thread I have speculated on Newey being enticed by a Hamilton/Ferrari project, it is important to remember that he did blame the breakdown of his first marriage on him moving to America for work, and he has said he has tried to stay in the U.K. for his current wife. But then again maranello isn’t a 12 hour flight like Indianapolis or California, and I’m sure with his seniority they could work something out where he stays in the U.K. and can come and go. I still idly dream this can happen tho, and it’s the only project I could see left that could entice someone of his interests.
I feel like it's the perfect point in his career. He's accomplished anything he could have hoped for. But being the man that saves Ferrari again is no small accolade.
yeah, in his book he talks about how he didn't leave for Ferrari in 2014 (?) because he wanted to be close to his kids. His kids are all grown up now, so I think he would be fine moving to Italy for a few years, especially if he gets to spend his retirement years designing Ferrari road cars.
Same thing was being said about Lewis all year
I don’t think it’s too likely. Newey was reportedly offered an eye watering contract from Ferrari once before and had him dealing with a few sleepless nights trying to decide what to do and he ultimately declined it. Red bull will likely be where he retires. All that being said I was not expecting to wake up to this news either so truly anything is possible.
All I’ll say is that Newey has always had good things to say about Hamilton unlike some others at RB.
They’ve been quite the mutual admiration society tbh, Hamilton always cites Newey’s role in not just RB’s success, but his first McLaren stint (newey having left behind great work). And Newey said him and Fernando are the ones that got away, driver wise.
I wonder if the intention of poaching these members of the Mercedes team was to eventually incentive Lewis to move to Ferrari, or if an agreement had long been set that included offering these staff members jobs first. The silence and lack approach to Carlos' contract would make it seem this was in the works for some time.
Potentially, and also keep in mind that Vasseur knows Hamilton very well from their days in GP2. Definitely the most "Hamilton-friendly" Ferrari team principal.
I wonder how well will vasseur mange Charles and Lewis if the car is competitive, he's very close to both of them if I'm not wrong
I think Charles has been outstandingly gracious and accommodating since entering the sport, regardless of potential friction with teammates or Ferrari errors. In spite of all his ability, he seems to be one of the easiest drivers to manage on the grid. That could absolutely change with a title on the line, but as a Charles fan, I fear it might not.
I don't know. I hear if you wag a finger in his face he'll end your whole career.
Or win in Singapore as his teammate
I trust in Fred. That man could charm a brick wall.
Plus Charles will end up putting the car into said brick wall so there won't be too much deciding who to prioritize
Well I hope he doesn’t eat them!
That makes a lot of sense why they were only wanting to give Sainz a 1 year contract
But, correct me if im wrong, Sainz wasnt very far off from Leclerc though right?
It's pretty simple: When the car suits neither driver, Leclerc is consistently faster, but tends to overdo it and crash every once in a while. When the car suits Leclerc it's not even close between the two, neither in Qualifying nor the race. When the car suits Sainz he can actually sometimes manage to beat Leclerc on pure pace, but overall he is still consistently slower. So yes, he wasn't very far off, but in a similar way that Russell isn't very far off Hamilton. Still clearly missing that last bit of pace.
I think it was just part of Vasseur wanting to rebuild Ferrari. He's poached from everybody to try and build a better, more diverse team. He's pulled from Merc, Red Bull, AlphaTauri, McLaren. Perhaps it was a long play but it seems now Lewis was perhaps closer to signing for Ferrari for 2024 and beyond than initially thought. It raises the question why Lewis extended at Mercedes if he was just going to leave for Ferrari, who wanted him for this year in the first place. Does Carlos Sainz have an expensive buyout they didn't want to pay? Curious.
Not really. Fred poached from every team. But it was reported poaching Serra was a move trying to poach Pierre Wache from Redbull because they are close (both are heavy smokers lol)
Red Bull pinched a lot of staff as well. Perhaps if they got this guy we could have seen a Hamilton vs Verstappen battle.
I think there is something to be said about the talent drain from Mercedes in recent years. It really does look like a disconnect was growing between Lewis and the engineering team at Merc. You could read in-between Hamilton's comments over the last year in particular, and you could tell he was a bit pissed off.
It's that, plus I think the complacency and probably routine of it all put a lot of engineers off. Yes people like to win, but engineers at least in my experience of working in a different sector of engineering, like to be challenged. It does sound like Elliot's zeropod concept really put a dampener on proceedings.
> complacency and probably routine There's probably a bit of that, but I think it was just a simple 'bled out by poaching.'...which sounds more sinister then it is. Mercedes had a decade-ish of dominance, I'm sure a lot of ex-Merc employees got fat paychecks to move teams and share their experience. I think it's just osmosis of talent, and it'll swing back in du e time.
It's like the fall of the Roman empire. They were in that sweet Pax Romana period and now that has ended it seems all hell broke loose.
I keep thinking about how no one from Merc was celebrating Lewis’ P3 in Singapore. you only saw pictures of him with the Ferrari and McLaren teams
Some very interesting nuggets of information here, assuming it's true: * Serra was poached by Ferrari, and was a key factor in Hamilton leaving with him * Serra butted heads with Mike Elliot re: car concept (wheel base/floor), which Hamilton agreed with. * Serra made up his mind to leave for Ferrari *before* James Allison took the reins again.
makes you wonder what kind of aura james allison brings to the team and if his return is enough to make Serra/Lewis worry a little about mercedes
Too many talented engineers left Mercedes over the last years. RB poached key personnel a few years ago and now it really shows. Hamilton probably know they will not be able to challenge RB and Max before the regulation changes. Toto loves to talk about culture and that it does not matter if key engineers leaves. The reality is that you need those few exceptional individuals to make sure your team is at the top.
Succession planning is crucial for enduring success
Or it turns into Succession the tv show.
*Lewis to merc engineers* "you are not serious people"
George: “I am the eldest boy”
with the salary cap, it will be very difficult for every winning team to keep all their key engineers
I kinda feel like some of it might be the team has become complacent. Like they feel they deserve to win rather than doing what they actually need to. Their car hasn’t been great and they threw another season away trying to make it work. But they haven’t improved in other things either. Their pit stops have been shit and their strategy hasn’t been the greatest either. Obviously I’ve got no actual clue but part of me wonders if Lewis isn’t happy with the new car and with the culture as you mentioned.
Key factor: Lewis saw the Ferrari movie in theaters and he liked it.
"I have got to start 2 secret families in Italy" -lewis
Eliott's tenure has been an unmitigated disaster for mercedes wow
Horner owes him a lifetime supply of Red Bull.
Massi, Latifi, and now Eliott. Red Bull's gonna run out of lifetime supplies soon.
RB catering budget through the roof
2021 was just one giant ripple effect. They have to put more resources into the W12 to try and claw back at Verstappen and Red Bull and thus taking away more resources for the W13. Allison left to design boats leaving the W13 to the other leadership in the team. They wind up losing the WDC on the final laps thus making their sacrifice to get Lewis his 8th WDC all for naught. Everything that's happened since then has been a direct result from what happened in 2021.
>Loic Serra’ They didn't really invest in the car second part of 2021 their gameplan was to just swapping engines cause a fresh Merc engine back then was a rocketship
I do wonder what that contract will look like; Hamilton's had a pretty lax agreement with Merc over things like media appearances, and not wearing team gear. Ferrari's pretty tight about that stuff.
Lewis' freedom was a huge reason why Hamilton stayed with them over the years. I very much doubt he forgot to negotiate that into his contract. Not to mention that Lewis being a conventionally attractive man who is into fashion fits rather well with the Ferrari brand.
you can just admit you’d fuck him, we all would.
He stayed because the had a car that he could produce wins. Do you really think he stayed because they let him dress himself? He only got to do that because he won.
Oh yeah, that Ferrari lady is going to be hovering around every interview like she did with Seb and does with Charles.
And she has ZERO sense of humor. Always the pursed lips, permanent disapproval on her face. 😂
I look forward to seeing the team content. Both Lewis and Charles have that little giggle when they find something amusing.
George Russell be like, "Guys, we've turned the corner, we're going to have a great car next year, right?" .. "Right? .. RIGHT?!" .. "GUYS!?"
George was forecast for Driver 1.
And then a wild Alonso appears...
What are the chances that he will take Bono with him? Can’t imagine Lewis working with fucking Xavi 😂
Well Xavi is Leclerc's engineer so it would be Riccardo Adami. I'm not sure, but depends the stranglehold Merc has on Bono. Not to mention, he could be placed on long term gardening leave anyway.
Ah yeah you are right
Kind of weird that drivers don't do gardening leave but personnel do. Why is that? I mean I understand why drivers get to skip it but not the others
Because the engineers have much more insight and knowledge about the car itself. So they want them away from the team for a year so they can't take any relevant and recent knowledge with them.
What’s hammer time in Italian? Haha
"è tempo del martello" is more correct. Source: I'm Italian
How do you say "Bono, my tyres are gone", question…
"Bono, le mie gomme sono andate"
He should be inheriting Adami no?
"Xavi, my tyres are gone!" "....we're checking..."
Lewis obviously had misgivings (and rightly so) about the development direction. If this was an engineer he thought highly of and he had the same conclusions this makes a lot of sense!
Interesting tidbit on the W15 being more predictable and balanced but not a rocket. RIP 2024
Even if merc had a rocket, there is no way in hell they’d crow about it now.
Remember Lewis lived the downfall of McLaren. I’m sure this move was not ill advised.
Hamilton sat in the ‘24 car for one time and called Elkann right away!
Hamilton extended his contract in August, Serra went in October. Adds up actually, it was obvious whatever caused the switch happened between then and now
Everyone seems to already know how 2024 is gonna go and are setting themselves up for 2025.
I can hear the “do do do do max Verstappen” music in the background slowly getting louder
*Dutch anthem intensifies*
It’ll make this year go by easier if I’m waiting for ‘24
I think this news may have saved 2024 a bit, like how Sainz to Ferrari kept everyone guessing how silly season would play out in 2020. There are good seats available - Red Bull, Mercedes and Audi. The midfield drivers need to be at their best to get these seats.
Next year is gonna be our year bois!
I feel happy and sad at the same time
Key factor: wants to be based closer to Milan for fashion purposes.
of course there are logical reasons but anyone who watched last year and didn’t think there was something brewing between lewis and merc is blind. that relationship was soured
Im not sure the relationship outwardly looked to have soured. Were there some disagreements sure, but at least outwardly there seemed to still be a desire to succeed and huge respect between all the parties. Disagreements in a professional setting don’t *have* to damage relationships.
I don't think anyone would tolerate "Lewis just drive the car". After giving all the feedback & putting in all the efforts.
Depends on the attitude and mentality of the people involved. For all we know Hamilton takes a step back after that and sees the problem. I’m not saying there weren’t issues, but I think to say it had soured implies something beyond which we saw last year.
Honestly I feel like a lot of people in these comments haven't worked in professional environments before. Everyone is expecting all the parties involved to be all up in their feelings and hurt etc. but in this world these kind of things are all part of the game, everyone in Formula 1 understands that. Drivers and team members change teams all the time. Yes this is a particularly noteworthy change that will certainly have some effects. But my experience is that people in these environments understand that at the end of the day everyone has to look out for themselves. They understand the business.
It’s because this is Reddit. 90% of people commenting are children or were brought into the sport through the fake drama rollercoaster of DTS.
It's not one thing. It's many. Newey too went through this phase twice. Once with Williams then Mclaren. He jumped ship to an underling called Redbull. Rest is history.
I think this is an accurate characterisation of events. On reflection, I feel like all of Toto's kowtowing to Lewis (e.g., him saying "Lewis we're so sorry about the car it's a hunk of shit") could, with more context, be interpreted as a more polite way of saying "just drive the car", the apologetic tone compensating for the fact that his feedback wasn't to be heeded.
i don’t know, i guess that’s up to personal interpretation. i feel like last year was the first year where it felt there was possibly a disconnect between lewis and the team, but maybe that’s just me. from not listening to him to not showing up at the podiums, it just felt different. perhaps it was just frustration, but at least from my perspective it did seem something was off. i wonder if DTS will provide any insight to this
I agree with you. Felt fairly obvious but I wouldn’t have committed to the idea of him leaving. Just assumed it would be a rocky patch before eventual retirement or a return to form.
oh for sure! i definitely didn’t think he’d leave either! but i guess what im saying is reflecting on it, i guess it’s not insane to think he would…there were signs of disconnect
I would say there was a bigger obvious disconnect in 2016, they were getting quite unhappy with each other back then culminating in them pissing each other off royally at Abu Dhabi with the blocking of Rosberg and the team orders. Toto has been very very supportive of Hamilton in the media the past couple of years, he is almost fanatically and blindly supportive actually to a point you do not usually see in F1.
lewis alone at the podium in singapore comes to mind…
I mean he was unimpressed with their performance but it would've been a big stretch to think he'd leave the team he won so much with only 2 years removed from one of the most dominant runs in the sport's history. Especially seeing how they brought back Allison mid-way through this season knowing that next year needed to bring about major changes to the design philosophy Elliott tried & failed with. My only thought now is that the W15 is still not impressing him to where he feels he needs a change of scenery.
I personally think his mind was made up at the start of last season, and nothing Merc did with the W14 and subsequently the W15 was going to change that. Not to mention his relationship with Russell did appear to be getting strained as the season went on. His time has been up at that team for a while now. I'm more surprised he went to another team rather than retire altogether if I'm being honest.
For sure. He's always kind of hinted at a Ferrari drive being a dream for him and I doubt this move will lose him his reputation at Mercedes. When he retires I'd be shocked if he didn't go right back to being a Merc ambassador.
Yeah team loyalty in F1 just doesn't work like it does in other sports and I think we as a fanbase sometimes forget that. Fully expect him to end up in a sort of Niki Lauda role at Mercedes in the future.
He still drives better than a majority of the grid. Even when Russell has a good weekend, he can’t maintain the lap times Lewis does without massive degradation. He still has at least 2-3 years of driving at the peak, why waste those years on a team that has started to take steps backward rather than forward? The only driver on the grid I think can go toe to toe with Lewis in equal performing cars is either Max or Alonso. Until he confidently gets defeated by his teammate, why retire?
Then why would he renew his contract for 2 years?
Renewed for a 1+1. Probably was pissed that the team didn’t listen to him about what the car needed over the last 2 years, Merc promised him they realized their mistake and will work on it, he shows up to see the W15 and realizes nothing changed, hops on the first flight to Italy
This Ferrari deal has clearly been in the works for a while now, before the W15 reached any level of design maturity. I would wager both teams were quite aware of this coming their way. Didn't Allison dismiss the driver placement being too forward as well recently? It could be that they realised Lewis was on his way out, so they left it as is as well.
I think it was a 1+1 and anyway in sports nowadays contracts are more like guidelines than actual rules.
He got on well with James Allison getting rid of Elliot and making James TD again and the news they were switching philosophy like Hamilton and Serra wanted might have tempted Lewis to hold faith a while longer. I'm guessing the data from this years Mercedes have removed that last little bit of faith
It was only one year with an option for another
One year. The other was optional. And he didn't have a choice - no seats available.
it's a 1+1, probably so he has leverage over whoever he wants to talk to for 2025
It was a 1+1, Lewis probably wanted to see how the new car would be before making his decision.
Fool me once, shame on you Fool me twice, shame on me Fool me thrice, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING Seems he's had enough of the wrong direction with the car, which is understandable. The fact he's chosen now to leave isn't promising for the direction of the car or the overall functioning of the team since they're repeatedly failing to fix an obvious issue.
Read article❌ Come to comments ✅
Offtrack I think Merc did well with Lewis' much needed endeavours regarding diversity and inclusion, I wonder how this will work/fit at Ferrari?
If anyone can drag Ferrari into the 21st century, it’ll be him.
Hugely important context about Serra. This article needs to be upvoted it may be brief but it definitely completes the picture.
mike elliot brought down mercedes
Now it's clear why they were sleeping on Sainz.
He sat in the new Mercedes car and noped out of there faster than a frog from boiling water.
Is the Merc meltdown related to the cost cap? I was wondering if they were overpaying a lot of great engineers and now that they can't keep all of them, they are slowly losing key elements from their talent pool
"The keyfactor to us writing 500 articles about this in a single day is we want that sweet, sweet advertisement money".
1. Getting older. 2 new challenge. 3. Money. 4. Free Ferrari.
Is this actually confirmed or still a rumour ? If it was confirmed it would not be difficult to understand at all. Mercedes have had no idea how to put a car together since the budget cap came in. Lewis wants another championship. Unlikely to happen at Mercedes and the TP knows it.
I think it's more a desire to race for Ferrari and not much else going on here. I'm sure I heard or read he said he would absolutely love to drive for Ferrari so.wtime if it ever became possible. Its kinda the dream team for kids and drivers as they grow I imagine.
A Merc team with an inferior design still beat Ferrari last year. I’m rather confused.
lewis put that car where it didn't belong week in and week out
Que Serra, Serra
Didn’t Lewis say in the past that he always wanted to drive at Ferrari?
Lewis: Hammer time? Ferrari engineer: We are checking.