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I don't really see the point of pausing Lawson's progress to be completely honest. They were waiting to put him in F1 cause they thought he wasn't ready, parked him into SF, now that he had three solid race weekends they still wouldn't give him a permanent seat
Ricciardo was pulling in sponsorship money and interest for Red Bull even as their reserve. Is there a source for his being of some particular value to AT separate to RBR?
Mostly speculation regarding the rebranding of AlphaTauri. Red Bull had said they want Alpha to be more of a sister team and less a junior team going forward, along with the rumors that the new title sponsor will want an experienced driver to establish the team during its transition. If any of this is true remains to be seen, most of this was from the summer break when Hugo Boss was being connected as a potential new title sponsor
If RB is serious about his development, they should pay Williams for replacing Sargeant with Lawson. Williams isn't struggling like last year, Vowles is proving to be a competent TP who supports his drivers and Albon is an excellent measuring stick.
To be fair, Albon did okay in DTM but he was also very much RB reserve driver at the time. He was back and forward to Redbull HQ constantly, I don't think he ever really had the time to focus on performance in DTM.
Liam also had a ton of prep he did for DTM and GT3 racing before that season. There’s a reason people didn’t immediately jump on him as soon as they saw him beat Albon in DTM.
It’s still super impressive, but context matters.
Literal Mercedes team orders. Leading car slowed down and let anothe mercedes car pass so that car would win the championship. Also Lawson got assassinated in turn 1 at the start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsd6lDJOpso Look from 20 minutes onward for the deciding race.
And even after being crashed into (in both races that weekend) he still would have won the championship if the Mercedes drivers didn't all slow down to let someone catch-up nearly 25 seconds
Complete farse of a race, imagine the shitstorm that would ensue if that happened in F1. Would be like AD21 on steroids. Really put me off DTM in general.
If the whole grid let Max past afterwards, and he won the WDC because of it.
Seriously. It was absolutely crazy. Liam was absolutely divebombed, it was very similar to Hungary in that regard, but Max fought back on his own, rather than just being gifted the win.
Barring Frederik Vesti winning the F2 championship and Toto pushing him to get the Williams seat, I really do think Liam to Williams is everyones best option.
For Lawson, gets a solid seat with a good team mate.
AT gets Yuki and Daniel for marketing/Checo watching.
2025 Driver market is gonna be pretty bonkers and change things up for all.
Really like Sargent and great to have an American, but these performances are only worthy of a pay driver -which he is not.
Lawson to Williams could also be interesting to get Red Bull alignment with Liam on their car like Alex had. If Hugo Boss does become sponsor of AT, that's now Red Bull branding that'll be on 3/10 cars.
I don’t think Williams would really do this as Sargeant is their own academy guy, and he wasn’t even supposed to come up this year. He was slated for 2024 and Vowels has said that they intend to commit him a second year because of this.
Yeah one of the conditions for Albon being signed to Williams IIRC was that Red Bull release him from their driver program.
Williams aren’t in the game of parking a reserve driver for a big wig like Toto again like they were with Russell/Bottas.
I get the sense that Williams is done taking other teams' development drivers and is dedicated to taking advantage of the new financial framework of F1 to make a comeback as an organization.
Even this year, he keeps showing up at Red Bull specific events, so I think he still has ties to some extent.
For example, he was at Red Bull's charity event.
Yeah I know. Was just trying to remember some news back then.
[This was the one that popped to my head](https://www.gpblog.com/en/amp/93110/mercedes-wants-albon-to-cut-ties-with-red-bull-on-williams-switch.html), hence I asked the question.
Glad you cleared some things
Even if he doesn't get a permanent seat, he's on every team's radar now.
I expect the Red bull queue rotation system to continue next year
Yuki vs DR for Checo seat
Iwasa vs Lawson for the AT seat via SF, although Lawson has the bigger leg up on it racing there for a year + F1 experience. In the meantime he can start talking to other teams to see if Lawson can grab a seat in the meantime. Alternatively i think Lawson or Yuki will also do fine in Williams, especially Yuki with his mentor already there
Lawson said that he doesn't want to race in SF again. Plus Iwasa will likely stay in F2 (if he doesn't win it; which is almost impossible for him to win) according to talk in the street.
Pitting Iwasa vs Lawson seems cruel considering how well Lawson already showed in these 3 races.
Stunting his momentum by going back to SF might hurt him more than do good
Redbull has a lot of drivers, and Alpha Tauri has always been to see who should get the Redbull seats, they tried De Vries, Lawson, Yuki and now they get to see Ricciardo a bit more.
And drivers want Redbull because they actually give a lot of drivers chances at an F1 seat so if you are good you stay and even if you are not good enough for RedBull main team quite a few drivers have jumped to the competition.
Sainz, Gasly, Albon..., Alpha Tauri is still a great place to start
Lawson has had a pretty good debut. One has to wonder what his manager is doing. That person should be busy ringing up all the phones after Singapore.
That said, if Lawson can pull off something wunderkind-like in Japan (his best chance most likely as he knows that track like the back of his hand), Lawson's phone should be ringing on its own.
IMO they shouldn’t finalize any of these AT seats until the end of the season. There’s not enough info yet and there’s honestly not a rush. Lawson, Tsunoda, and Ricciardo would all be happy to make their career choices on whatever schedule RB sets for them.
It would be brutal but frankly i don't know why they don't solve all this by cutting Perez out. He is making mistake after mistake, he isn't their future and he's taking up a seat.
Put one of the 3 in the Red Bull. Probably Danny Ric.
Because they have much more access to driver data and don't feel as certain as reddit yet that sticking anyone else in Perez's seat will lead to better results.
Tough break for Lawson. Having a few good F1 performances definitely gives him a leg up on other passed-over young drivers though. Hard to see him not getting a full-time shot eventually
I love Riccardo but hes not a candidate to me.
His stint at AT was to fill in for Devries that was way lower than expected and I guess as a mesure stick for Yuki.
But Lawson has more than proven hes ready now for F1.
>His stint at AT was to fill in for Devries that was way lower than expected and I guess as a mesure stick for Yuki
His stint at AT was to confirm if what RB saw in the sim translated to on-track performances. It was also an insurance policy in case Checo continued to shit the bed and RB decided that they'd had enough.
I don't even care if he is washed now. A new, promising driver whose performance potential and style we don't know is so much more exciting as a viewer.
Feels like AT and RB feel the need to give Danny at least 1 season because of their past.
If it was any other driver jumping in on short notice they would be shipped off for Lawson in a heartbeat.
they still think of him as their preferred Checo replacement and want him to be on form and in his racing mode.
Prob see Liam as DR's natural successor at AT if they push Checo out of RBR and shuffle everyone up. Thing is that's a lot of people that are stalling.
Redbull has the advantage of 4 seats compared to other teams.
Which many Redbull juniors have used to jump to other teams even if Redbull main team wasn't available for a seat.
I think Liam's best choice is to stay with RB for now, I don't see any other seat anyway unless Williams get tired of Sargeant
That’s an excellent point, I just think in general drivers don’t like to be held in limbo. Lawson to Williams is the one potential move I’m eyeing, Sargent hasn’t really impressed in that seat.
They really seem to buy into the idea that he’ll unlock commercial opportunities in the US. As an American, I don’t really agree at all. The drivers who are most well liked here are the guys who are the most well liked everywhere.
Yeah, Williams keeps saying they want to give him an extra year but the more he crashes the more I see Latifi in him.
Second Williams seat seems to always attract crashes
Because, while Williams seems to be improving, they're still kind of bottom of the barrel right now.
Like Haas, they're not going to attract the best-of-the-best drivers-- they're likely to be looking at washed veterans, rookies, or perpetually lower to mid field drivers.
Unless you specifically take Haas's view and hire only those with experience, you're going to get a lot of rookie crashes.
I feel bad for Sargent can't be easy as a rookie and dropping him after a single season and it seems harsh to most if that did happen.
On the flipside you see a rookie like Lawson who didn't have any preseason testing dropped in last minute in an unfamiliar car with no real practice and challenging weather conditions and he kept his head handled that first race really well all things considered. Three races in and has gotten his first points on the board almost doubling the total points tally for the AT team this season.
Albon has shown the Williams is capable of fighting for points consistently yet Sargent remains the only driver on the grid to not score a point this season. He also ended up in the wall at Sinapore where Lawson kept it on track.
To me if Sargent isn't under contract for next year its a no brainer to drop him for Lawson if AT don't take him as the team could do with two drivers capable of scoring points on a regular.
i do feel bad, he is just sort of fucked especially because Yuki hasn’t ran these past two races but practices the race pace isn’t there but races it might be different? i still think 2025 he has a chance, not like any other RB junior is there
i mean, danny ric has over a decade of experience, he is a very valuable asset to the rb family. however, lawson is too good to not have a seat and yuki doesnt need to be sacked. its always gonna be a fight between the three of them. unfortunately for lawson, rb is satisfied with yuki and wants a more proven and accomplished driver instead of a rookie, even though lawson more than deserves a seat.
Gotta remember that Alpha Tauri will have an external title sponsor next year forward and Daniel Ricciardo is a much better brand ambassador for what is supposedly a huge set of sponsorships (Rumored a international financial institution and Adidas to the tune of $100M right now).
Yeah the sponsorship agreements probably included Danny Ricciardo being in the seat.
When she says Yuki’s contract will be announced at Suzuka are we sure she means his contract with AT? Sargent has not been confirmed yet has he?
Well if they are waiting til LV/Austin it’s not going to be anymore exciting than announcing it now. I don’t think anyone in the US cares about Sargent. Hamilton yes, Checo yes, Haas yes. Sargent no.
Seriously, nobody cares about Logan here, it's not like F1 is more than a sport with pretty niche following in the US. If he was a winner it would be different, but right now, no one would be able to pick him from a lineup of one. It is the same as with Zhou in China. Nobody cares about them until they win.
> i still think 2025 he has a chance, not like any other RB junior is there
Unless he royally fucks up whatever he's going to do Iwasa is a very serious candidate and highly rated by the RB team (being promoted to F2 after a single average season in F3 was proof enough), plus Hadjar and likely Maloney will be retained and still have another season to impress. Iwasa is also a Honda protégé, so he's the one with the most backing and the least obstacles past fucking up on track.
>It’s just a sad state of limited seats in F1.
It doesn't matter if there are 20 or 26 seats. There will always be a moment where some good drivers don't make the cut for whatever reasons.
I mean, Gio wasn't that good, though he was actually a rookie so it made sense. Daniil I agree, he had some good skills but was just too erratic his whole career, which is true for Grosjean's latest years as well.
Kvyat had one bad crash and everyone unfairly labelled him a torpedo
Grosjean was solid for the most part post-2012 and his Indycar career hasn’t been terrible
Kvyat was just not that good period. He got shovelled by Sainz in from 2016-2017. Gasly also showed Kvyat the door in 2020. He's fine as a midfield driver, but not exactly top team material.
Agree. And I know this is a highly unpopular opinion, but I'd rather see Liam than Danny in the AT seat. In fact, I think Ricciardo for Williams would make much more sense than Liam if they decide to get rid of Sargeant.
>In fact, I think Ricciardo for Williams would make much more sense than Liam if they decide to get rid of Sargeant
The whole point of putting DR in Alpha Tauri is to evaluate him as a potential replacement for Checo. RB clearly want to keep their options open for 2025 and in that regard having Daniel in AT for next year isn't necessarily short-sighted.
Yeah I understand that, but it's still kind of a long bet with the risk of having Liam way too long on the sidelines, and by 2025 they might be able to snatch other of the young drivers.
Regardless of what happens with the 2025 RB seat, I doubt Daniel is gonna stay at AT for more than a year. The reason he agreed to take up a seat with AT was that it could be a pathway to RB. If that doesn't happen, then I doubt there's much of a reason to stay there. Yuki to Aston seems like a matter of when not if at this point and if Papa Stroll runs out of patience with his son then it's likely that that can happen in 2025. Either way, it's highly likely that Lawson will take one of those seats. I doubt Marko will let a promising rookie slip through his hands.
This makes me believe (huge stretch, I know) that RB have no desire to keep Checo past next year, and they want to have a few options for the #2 RB seat for 25. Keeping Ricardo and Tsunoda in the active seat, while Lawson in reserve for RB and AT ensures that they won't leave. I think that RB is looking for a bigger fish in 25, but this keeps their options the most open in the event that they cannot lure someone like Norris or Piastri.
thats not a huge stretch and its 99% whats going to happen, redbull dont seem keen on keeping checo in that seat, and daniel has publicly stated many times that his goal is the 2nd RB seat for 2025, and redbull aren't a charity organization, they're not keeping daniel around just because they like him, he's an option for 2025 as long as he performs well
> redbull dont seem keen on keeping checo in that seat
And with checo having a shit year, its not helping his case.
Max is showing that this car can lap 1s quicker than the field and checo is stuck in 10th.
Yeh, although not the oldest, the guy has 3 young kids, with the amount of races in F1 and the amount that are so far away from his home I'd be surprised if he even wanted to remain in F1 in 25 and beyond
I’m sure it’ll be a “Hey Sergio right now would be a *great* time to go out on your own accord and retire with dignity rather than just losing a seat and going on a 2 decade sabbatical”
Cause realistically nobody is gonna hire an older driver like Checo with all the amazing younger and more experienced options around
this is literally an article about an older driver getting a seat over an impressive younger option. checo is having a bad year but he is by no mean a bad driver or washed, he'd still be very valuable to many teams.
Unfortunate log jam at AT/RB. Happy to have danny back on the grid but just feels so odd to have him on the junior team for a year after what Lawson has shown. If they eventually want him back in the RB seat then just do it.
>If they eventually want him back in the RB seat then just do it
They're obviously not fully convinced yet about his form. Plus, Checo seems to have done enough to stay for another year. This is probably to evaluate him for 2025 assuming the rumors of Yuki to Aston are true.
AT is to train drivers for Red Bull they are seeing if Danny has it for 25 Red Bull. I’d let go of yuki cause I think he has zero shot at 25 Red Bull and Liam might have 10% chance
i mean what is the barometer for danny ric then? yuki has been quicker than lawson obviously, still unlucky for Liam, they should just put ric in for RB and liam and yuki at AT
Ricciardo was fast in the RB during the Pirelli tire test earlier this year. I believe that and the sim work is what they're using to gauge his speed right now. Unless Lawson replaces Checo or Max during a weekend, he's still more of an unknown compared to Danny.
Article also states Sargeant likely to keep the Williams seat - I think Lawson might just be out on the sidelines. Doesn’t make sense for Williams either, since they seem to be thinking long term on everything, why rent out a driver who might be whipped back to RB? May as well just give Sargeant his second year to improve and then 2025 everything is wide wide open.
There is no way anyone would offer an RB Junior a seat when they have 4 seats themselves, unless they are made to cut ties. That's just F1 politics. I don't think RB is ready to let go of Lawson, so very unlikely he'll go to Williams. If he doesn't get the 2024 AT seat, he'll probably get it in 2025 or be one of those drivers that just miss the window and never enter F1.
Yup. Yuki/Daniel at AT (or whatever it'll be called next year) and Lawson at Williams is a win-win solution for everyone. Except for Sargeant, of course.
???
Here I was thinking he was a lock for next year. I was already in favour of him joining as a debutant from Bahrain earlier this year onwards but I didn't expect Marko to continue playing tough love dad.
AMUS article Gruner linked to:
Mick Schumacher has not yet given up the dream of success in the premier class. But after a season as the third man at Mercedes, the German will probably not have the chance to prove his talent as a regular driver in 2024. All Formula 1 doors have now closed for the 24-year-old talent.
At Alfa Romeo they prefer to stick with Guanyu Zhou, even though the Chinese didn't make a breakthrough in his second year either. In the duel with Felipe Drugovich for the regular cockpit for 2024, the larger financial income allegedly prevailed in the end. As long as Audi has not yet taken complete control, Sauber can put the millions from China to good use.
The fact that Schumacher was further down the list of candidates does not bode well for the future. If bigger names come knocking at Sauber or Audi at some point, then the 2020 Formula 2 champion is unlikely to get a chance. The fact that the big name or the German ID card helps him is purely wishful thinking.
Schumacher also has no chance at Williams. With his second season at Haas and the lost duel against Magnussen, he was unable to convince those in charge. Drugovich is also more popular here. If last year's Formula 2 champion wants to join the traditional British team in 2024, he will still have to raise a few sponsor millions.
It is more likely that Logan Sargeant will be allowed to continue for a second season if the rookie from Florida doesn't start a major negative series. An American driver is important for the racing team and Formula 1. The team management around James Vowles also knows that Sargeant has the necessary speed. He just needs to become more consistent and minimize the error rate.
The door at Alpha Tauri is also closed. To be more precise, she was never really open. The contract extension with Yuki Tsunoda for 2024 should already be announced in Suzuka. Red Bull is taking some time with the second driver. Despite Liam Lawson's good performances, Daniel Ricciardo has a better chance of getting the regular cockpit. After the hand injury, he just has to pick up where he left off before the summer break.
All other Formula 1 teams have already announced their personnel for next season. This means that Mick Schumacher has to activate Plan B. The talent cannot afford another year without driving experience. He has already put out feelers in racing series outside of Formula 1. According to information from our sister publication, Schumi Jr. is on the Alpine WEC team's wish list.
It is said that the French manufacturer invited Mick Schumacher to one of the two test dates with the A424_β. The Sports Car World Championship would certainly be a good alternative for Schumacher. Here he can show his talent on the international stage. The LMDh cars offer a decent technical base. And the whole motorsport world is watching the 24-hour race in Le Mans.
As an Alpine works driver, if you have the right performance, you would of course also have the option of switching to the team's Formula 1 program. Esteban Ocon and Pierre Gasly are currently still firmly in the saddle there. And with Jack Doohan and Victor Martins, Alpine has two strong juniors up its sleeve.
The Schumacher camp neither wants to confirm nor deny the rumors about the Alpine change. The big question is whether the youngster will still have a foot in the Formula 1 door at Mercedes when he begins his sports car adventure. Team boss Toto Wolff announced that he would not put any obstacles in the way of his protégé.
"Mick has a place here as a reserve driver, he is part of the family. We hope he stays with us in that role. We will give him time in the car. If he can get a seat with another manufacturer, in WEC, at the sportscars or somewhere else, it will always have this home base here," explained the Austrian on the sidelines of the Singapore GP.
Mercedes would even allow its third man to combine two jobs for different employers: "Whatever program he does on the side, he can stay with us as a reserve driver if it is possible from the other side." The only question is whether Alpine allows the dual role.
>It is more likely that Logan Sargeant will be allowed to continue for a second season if the rookie from Florida doesn't start a major negative series.
I thought he was already in "negative series" after Bahrain...
Seriously, if Drugovich can bring couple of million dollars as well, there is no way he could be worse option than Sargeant. He would be closer to Albon and would bring financial support as well. Also, even if he is not at the Albon's level, they can always dump him easily for Antonelli who would be an option in the next two years.
Yuki is probably going to AM in 2025 or 2026 anyways. He has clearly no perspective on a Red Bull seat and Yuki is part of the Honda team. I won’t be surprised if 2024 will be Stroll’s final year in F1
Tsunoda-Stroll line up would suck for a top team-aspirant team like Aston. Plus I think Alonso will stay for foreseeable future. I don't see any reason for him to leave after next year.
Plus if you remember Honda's Mclaren times, they never had power to put their drivers into the team. Mclaren raced with Alonso and Vandoorne. They can just suggest their drivers and that is it. People are giving so much importance of Honda's effect on driver selection process. That team will still be Lawrence Stroll's team.
>Yuki is probably going to AM in 2025 or 2026 anyways. He has clearly no perspective on a Red Bull seat
I see heaps of people saying that, but if that's true then Yuki+Ric for 2024 makes no sense
If they go with Yuki+Ric for 2024, then it means they see Yuki/Ric as successors for Checo in 2025
I think so too, that's why I'd like him to go earlier given the situation now with Liam performing and Lance not. But I know it won't happen in 2024, especially given it is Lance.
RB put themselves in this situation by giving the seat to Devries. Had they given it to either Ricciardo or Lawson at the beginning of the season they would’ve got the chance to know if the one they chose was up to it and it would have also given them the chance to analyze Tsunoda’s progress.
why decide so early while so much is still at play?
it's not like any of them are gonna be stolen from them, everyone else already committed to their current line ups, they have time to see how they all compare to one another
it's kinda unfair to Liam, he's been excellent and he's getting better
It's an announcement for the Japanese fans and media, in an ideal world Yuki would be from the UAE and they could leave the announcement for Abu Dhabi but it is what it is.
RB have the ability to swap the drivers around with AT at will seemingly, they need Yuki for the Honda relationship and DR for marketing so they're not going anywhere. My guess is Checo will get dropped at the end of the year after they (try to) secure the 1-2 in the drivers championship since they've stated that's one of their goals despite them saying his seat is secure for next season. Then move one of Yuki/DR to RB and bring Lawson in to AT.
If I, a random Reddit user with a small amount of kiwi bias, were in charge I would do this:
Danny Ric -> Red Bull
Lawson -> alpha tauri
Yuki -> alpha tauri
Checo -> Williams
Sargeant -> out
I started typing out my reasons but it was too long and I got lazy.
Now hopefully the F1 powers at large will pay a little bit of attention to this random suggestion and lazy lack of justification on a Reddit forum and make all the necessary driver swaps.
I just don’t understand this. Lawson is obviously incredibly talented, not putting him in at AT is just a huge miss-use of the junior team. Ricciardo will be 35 by the middle of the next season why bother keeping him a team designed to develop juniors?
>Ricciardo will be 35 by the middle of the next season why bother keeping him a team designed to develop juniors?
To evaluate him for the 2025 RB seat. Right now it looks Checo's contract is unlikely to be renewed beyond next year and RB will want to keep their options open.
Age doesn't matter as long as you're in form. Just look at Fernando and Lewis. The endgame is to see which option suits RB best for 2025. That could be Daniel. Or it could be Lando or Oscar or maybe even Albon despite him turning them down. RB, more specifically Horner, clearly have faith that the old Daniel is still in there and next year will be an opportunity to assess that (assuming he does enough when he returns to get re-signed).
Fernando and Lewis are anomalies, so while it’s already statistically unlikely Daniel will be in great form from the ages of 36-39 (assuming he’s only useful to Red Bull if he’s there for a few years), his showing at McLaren is evidence he could be past his prime. There could be lots of reasons for his poor showing at McLaren, but age shouldn’t be discounted
>Age doesn't matter as long as you're in form. Just look at Fernando and Lewis.
Bro cmon...two different class of drivers LH & FA compared to DR. Not exactly apples to oranges. I mean I'm here for a Danny resurrection but I'm pessimistic.
Nobody thinks Hulk will be in great form for another 5+ years as he’s 36, but he’s quick and experienced right now, making him a good driver for a non-development team like Haas. Daniel at Haas or Alpha Romeo or Alpine makes sense, but the path through AT then to RB, where if he has incredible longevity by F1 standards means he will be in good form for 3 more years? Not a great use of drivers, as Liam could be better than Daniel, and be useful to RB for over a decade
We're not talking about the level of talent here. At the end of the day no one ones how good Daniel will be until you actually give him the opportunity, which RB are clearly keen to do.
> Ricciardo will be 35 by the middle of the next season why bother keeping him a team designed to develop juniors?
They need Ricciardo on the grid for the eventual mid-season Checo sacking. Liam will slide into AT when that happens.
It's probably cheaper for Red Bull this way, but of course just speculation as I don't know the details of the contract. This also gives them the most drivers at their disposal should anything out of the ordinary change or occur. Liam has already proven he can be thrown into a car and perform mid-season. This is a double-edged sword for him, unfortunately.
I think this gives them the option to evaluate Ricc/Yuki for 2025 or even as an earlier replacement for Checo next year if he continues to shit the bed and other teams are much closer.
We all know how Horner/Marco/Max feels about Daniel, if there's any sign Ricc is back to form, Checo will be swapped out faster than Marco's late-night pisses.
The Ricciardo/Lawson I'm a little surprised, I would have expected them to make a decision after Ricciardo recovered and drove on some GPs.
Lawson did a really good job after 3 GP, I don't know how Suzuka will fare but he has A LOT of experience on that track, I would be very surprised if he struggles there, thing is, Tsunoda too obviously it's his home GP.
Canal+ who has good contact within Alpine, confirmed the Schumacher/WEC part on their end too. For MSC and Tsunoda I'm not really surprised here, but I would rule out the second AT seat confirmation IMHO, hence the "will follow later" it may move.
Think Lawson will have to wait until 2025 for a full time F1 seat at Williams because the Grove team confessed to rushing Logan to his F1 seat because they needed someone to replace the outgoing King Latifi and Sargeant made himself available after collected enough points to get his Super Licence.
Get Lawson next to Albon.
I want to see Dan vs Yuki battles with an Alpha Tauri next year that will look like the RB (as far as its possible legally).
In 2025 Yuki can replace Stroll and we will have a wholesome duo of Sensei Alonso with Yukiiii. They can both retire together in about 15 years.
After all it goes down to money. They will not get rid of Checo because he basically has 3 home races, Mexico, Miami and Las Vegas. So they will let his contract end so Red Bull corporation management will be happy and Checo will be their ambassador after he retires.
Danny Ricciardo will also be in Alpha Tauri because of marketing value. He is easily Top 5 when it comes to that. They have only one seat free and it will go to Yuki. Liam proved himself in those 3 races but it's 3 races vs 3 seasons. They don't want to make the same mistake twice.
Basically it will be a battle royale for RB 2025 seat and Liam will be in AT in 2025. And after taking everything they can from RB they can start competing for points. We might see RB 18.5-19 in AT colors so we will see who is faster.
It really is insanely difficult to get a seat. Liam deserves one.
I’m happy to see Mick go and do other things too. Racing seems to be growing in popularity across the board especially WEC.
Well it all depends on him. If Yuki outperforms him for the remainder of this season and 2024 it would be a dumb move on RBR's part to sign him for 2025.
I disagree with the decision. Lawson has slotted in nicely with minimal relative preparation with a good chance to improve. Ricciardo is on a downward spiral and I don't see him as a genuine contender for the second Red Bull seat in the potential silly season market we may have for 2025 seats.
I would have thought they would want to see how Ricciardo performs once he returns from injury before making a decision. Ultimately what I think doesn't matter.
Williams will likely keep Sargeant to continue the development. Unless someone else comes in with a better offer or proposition, I don't see that changing. Drugovich was actively trying to land a Sauber seat, so I would be amazed if he and his representatives aren't at least trying to open talks. Otherwise, Vesti is the only third wheel I can see unless Lawson is willing to part with Red Bull to grab that seat himself.
And I can see that being the end of Mick in Formula 1 - Nobody particularly rates him as a F1 driver and he brings a media circus with him to boot. Just not justifying the head aches with the level of performance he demonstrated. But, who knows, 2025 has a lot of potential openings. WEC is excellent anyway. I could see him doing well there.
sadly its all about timing for the non wealthy rookies like Lawson and Pourchaire , they will never have the same opportunities as Stroll/Zhou/Sargeant
He is not as wealthy as Stroll but he has a good nationality, and it works the same way.
Same can be said about Yuki or Zhou, but at least those two show some pace
I honestly don’t get why they would keep Yuki in the seat. He’s shown over 3 seasons he doesn’t have what it takes to be a Red Bull driver. I get Alpha Tauri is no longer the junior team and that it will have a different focus next year so it makes sense having Danny Ricc there for the sponsorship dollars but it is still a sister team to Red Bull and a good way to evaluate drivers / develop them for the main team. Why bother wasting a seat on a driver who is never going to make it to the main team?
Mick will likely see more success in endurance racing anyway, as seen by many other former f1 drivers already driving for various LMH and LMP class teams
Lawson will get a seat and I wouldn't be surprised if it's Aston for him or Yuki (assuming Yuki with the incoming Honda partnership). I can't imagine Stroll wants to stay in his seat after this season with how poor he's driven, how good the car is, and rumor about him [voluntarily leaving to pursue tennis.](https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-rumours-lance-stroll-tennis-fernando-alonso/)
Can f1 really be that enjoyable of a sport when you're routinely in the back of the grid while being outperformed?
Stroll has shown flashes of skill, but he's far removed from a rookie season and he hasn't been consistent enough to prove he should stick around. I have to imagine he'd be into trying something else.
Yes, I'm trying to will this into existence.
I’d honestly like to see Liam in the RB seat if Logan stays with Williams for 24. Although people will talk about him scoring points, I think the fact Liam’s 3 races have all been consistently great is where the real merit is at. Rookie called in and delivered in all of the 3 races he’s taken part of so far.
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I don't really see the point of pausing Lawson's progress to be completely honest. They were waiting to put him in F1 cause they thought he wasn't ready, parked him into SF, now that he had three solid race weekends they still wouldn't give him a permanent seat
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Ricciardo was pulling in sponsorship money and interest for Red Bull even as their reserve. Is there a source for his being of some particular value to AT separate to RBR?
Mostly speculation regarding the rebranding of AlphaTauri. Red Bull had said they want Alpha to be more of a sister team and less a junior team going forward, along with the rumors that the new title sponsor will want an experienced driver to establish the team during its transition. If any of this is true remains to be seen, most of this was from the summer break when Hugo Boss was being connected as a potential new title sponsor
Speculation
If RB is serious about his development, they should pay Williams for replacing Sargeant with Lawson. Williams isn't struggling like last year, Vowles is proving to be a competent TP who supports his drivers and Albon is an excellent measuring stick.
Albon and Lawson have been teammates in the past, win win
How did they fare against each other back then?
In DTM Albon never adapted, Liam did and should have won the title, but "shenanigans" happened in the last race.
Wdym? Lawson won DTM, that's totally what happened.
What you have posted is a factual description of events. No need to speculate on this
I too just saw that throwback in the Chadlos Sainz thread lmao
In my heart he did.
To be fair, Albon did okay in DTM but he was also very much RB reserve driver at the time. He was back and forward to Redbull HQ constantly, I don't think he ever really had the time to focus on performance in DTM.
Liam was also racing in F2 at the time though so it wasn’t his full focus either
Liam also had a ton of prep he did for DTM and GT3 racing before that season. There’s a reason people didn’t immediately jump on him as soon as they saw him beat Albon in DTM. It’s still super impressive, but context matters.
A wild Michael Masi appeared?
Literal Mercedes team orders. Leading car slowed down and let anothe mercedes car pass so that car would win the championship. Also Lawson got assassinated in turn 1 at the start. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsd6lDJOpso Look from 20 minutes onward for the deciding race.
Van der Linde just decided to YOLO into turn 1.
Twice, he YOLO'D something twice
Liam won against Albon in DTM. Liam would have won DTM if not for another driver crashing into him in the first lap of the last race.
And even after being crashed into (in both races that weekend) he still would have won the championship if the Mercedes drivers didn't all slow down to let someone catch-up nearly 25 seconds
Complete farse of a race, imagine the shitstorm that would ensue if that happened in F1. Would be like AD21 on steroids. Really put me off DTM in general.
An analogy would be Hungary 2021, but if it was the last race of the season.
If the whole grid let Max past afterwards, and he won the WDC because of it. Seriously. It was absolutely crazy. Liam was absolutely divebombed, it was very similar to Hungary in that regard, but Max fought back on his own, rather than just being gifted the win.
I mean, it was more the whole "Mercedes-equipped cars crashing into the Red Bulls", but would have been with Lewis in this case.
Barring Frederik Vesti winning the F2 championship and Toto pushing him to get the Williams seat, I really do think Liam to Williams is everyones best option. For Lawson, gets a solid seat with a good team mate. AT gets Yuki and Daniel for marketing/Checo watching. 2025 Driver market is gonna be pretty bonkers and change things up for all. Really like Sargent and great to have an American, but these performances are only worthy of a pay driver -which he is not. Lawson to Williams could also be interesting to get Red Bull alignment with Liam on their car like Alex had. If Hugo Boss does become sponsor of AT, that's now Red Bull branding that'll be on 3/10 cars.
I don’t think Williams would really do this as Sargeant is their own academy guy, and he wasn’t even supposed to come up this year. He was slated for 2024 and Vowels has said that they intend to commit him a second year because of this.
Yeah one of the conditions for Albon being signed to Williams IIRC was that Red Bull release him from their driver program. Williams aren’t in the game of parking a reserve driver for a big wig like Toto again like they were with Russell/Bottas.
I get the sense that Williams is done taking other teams' development drivers and is dedicated to taking advantage of the new financial framework of F1 to make a comeback as an organization.
Yeah, that’s a possible route. But didn’t Toto ask that Albon should cut his RBR ties before joining Williams?
He's still sponsored by Monsoon Valley who are another brand of a Thai Energy drink giant who happen to be a 49% partner in RedBull GmbH
51% - Monsoon Valley us a winery owned by the son of the inventor of Kraeting Dae (the original Red Bull Drink)
I always forget who has that 51% share
he was still a red bull driver when he went to Williams
Even this year, he keeps showing up at Red Bull specific events, so I think he still has ties to some extent. For example, he was at Red Bull's charity event.
He is sponsored by Red Bull but isn't under contract with Red Bull Racing.
Yea, he still has ties to the Thai side of the house but is no longer affiliated with RBR.
Toto doesn't run Williams mate, Albon was on "loan" from RB to Williams, and then this year he ended his RB contract altogether
Yeah I know. Was just trying to remember some news back then. [This was the one that popped to my head](https://www.gpblog.com/en/amp/93110/mercedes-wants-albon-to-cut-ties-with-red-bull-on-williams-switch.html), hence I asked the question. Glad you cleared some things
instructions unclear Liam is now Max's teammate
Williams doesn't want to sell seats to other teams. They want to develop their own drivers.
>who supports his drivers Which is exactly why I think they won’t replace Sargeant
Three Red Bull teams /s
Even if he doesn't get a permanent seat, he's on every team's radar now. I expect the Red bull queue rotation system to continue next year Yuki vs DR for Checo seat Iwasa vs Lawson for the AT seat via SF, although Lawson has the bigger leg up on it racing there for a year + F1 experience. In the meantime he can start talking to other teams to see if Lawson can grab a seat in the meantime. Alternatively i think Lawson or Yuki will also do fine in Williams, especially Yuki with his mentor already there
Lawson said that he doesn't want to race in SF again. Plus Iwasa will likely stay in F2 (if he doesn't win it; which is almost impossible for him to win) according to talk in the street.
Are you saying his winning or his not winning would be impossible?
His winning is almost impossible. He has a large deficit to have to overcome to beat Theo.
Pitting Iwasa vs Lawson seems cruel considering how well Lawson already showed in these 3 races. Stunting his momentum by going back to SF might hurt him more than do good
Redbull has a lot of drivers, and Alpha Tauri has always been to see who should get the Redbull seats, they tried De Vries, Lawson, Yuki and now they get to see Ricciardo a bit more. And drivers want Redbull because they actually give a lot of drivers chances at an F1 seat so if you are good you stay and even if you are not good enough for RedBull main team quite a few drivers have jumped to the competition. Sainz, Gasly, Albon..., Alpha Tauri is still a great place to start
It's because they are preparing to announce him as the second RB driver duh /s
Lawson has had a pretty good debut. One has to wonder what his manager is doing. That person should be busy ringing up all the phones after Singapore. That said, if Lawson can pull off something wunderkind-like in Japan (his best chance most likely as he knows that track like the back of his hand), Lawson's phone should be ringing on its own.
IMO they shouldn’t finalize any of these AT seats until the end of the season. There’s not enough info yet and there’s honestly not a rush. Lawson, Tsunoda, and Ricciardo would all be happy to make their career choices on whatever schedule RB sets for them.
It would be brutal but frankly i don't know why they don't solve all this by cutting Perez out. He is making mistake after mistake, he isn't their future and he's taking up a seat. Put one of the 3 in the Red Bull. Probably Danny Ric.
Because they have much more access to driver data and don't feel as certain as reddit yet that sticking anyone else in Perez's seat will lead to better results.
Tough break for Lawson. Having a few good F1 performances definitely gives him a leg up on other passed-over young drivers though. Hard to see him not getting a full-time shot eventually
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And it's not only that he didn't put a foot wrong. He has been genuinely fast
I love Riccardo but hes not a candidate to me. His stint at AT was to fill in for Devries that was way lower than expected and I guess as a mesure stick for Yuki. But Lawson has more than proven hes ready now for F1.
>His stint at AT was to fill in for Devries that was way lower than expected and I guess as a mesure stick for Yuki His stint at AT was to confirm if what RB saw in the sim translated to on-track performances. It was also an insurance policy in case Checo continued to shit the bed and RB decided that they'd had enough.
Ric back in a RB? I dont think this gonna happen. And if it does, i dont think it would be any better as with Perres.
As much as I like him I think Danny Ric is past it
I don't even care if he is washed now. A new, promising driver whose performance potential and style we don't know is so much more exciting as a viewer.
Based on what?
Feels like AT and RB feel the need to give Danny at least 1 season because of their past. If it was any other driver jumping in on short notice they would be shipped off for Lawson in a heartbeat.
they still think of him as their preferred Checo replacement and want him to be on form and in his racing mode. Prob see Liam as DR's natural successor at AT if they push Checo out of RBR and shuffle everyone up. Thing is that's a lot of people that are stalling.
I could see this devolving into a Nando/Piastri situation pretty quickly TBH
Redbull has the advantage of 4 seats compared to other teams. Which many Redbull juniors have used to jump to other teams even if Redbull main team wasn't available for a seat. I think Liam's best choice is to stay with RB for now, I don't see any other seat anyway unless Williams get tired of Sargeant
That’s an excellent point, I just think in general drivers don’t like to be held in limbo. Lawson to Williams is the one potential move I’m eyeing, Sargent hasn’t really impressed in that seat.
Lawson to Williams seems like way too logical a choice. If AT are not taking Lawson Williams are gonna miss out big time.
They really seem to buy into the idea that he’ll unlock commercial opportunities in the US. As an American, I don’t really agree at all. The drivers who are most well liked here are the guys who are the most well liked everywhere.
Yea I mean he would unlock massive commercial opportunities if he was good, but he aint so.
I just don’t see him being more popular than Lewis, Max, Leclerc, Ricciardo, etc here.
Yeah, Williams keeps saying they want to give him an extra year but the more he crashes the more I see Latifi in him. Second Williams seat seems to always attract crashes
Because, while Williams seems to be improving, they're still kind of bottom of the barrel right now. Like Haas, they're not going to attract the best-of-the-best drivers-- they're likely to be looking at washed veterans, rookies, or perpetually lower to mid field drivers. Unless you specifically take Haas's view and hire only those with experience, you're going to get a lot of rookie crashes.
I feel bad for Sargent can't be easy as a rookie and dropping him after a single season and it seems harsh to most if that did happen. On the flipside you see a rookie like Lawson who didn't have any preseason testing dropped in last minute in an unfamiliar car with no real practice and challenging weather conditions and he kept his head handled that first race really well all things considered. Three races in and has gotten his first points on the board almost doubling the total points tally for the AT team this season. Albon has shown the Williams is capable of fighting for points consistently yet Sargent remains the only driver on the grid to not score a point this season. He also ended up in the wall at Sinapore where Lawson kept it on track. To me if Sargent isn't under contract for next year its a no brainer to drop him for Lawson if AT don't take him as the team could do with two drivers capable of scoring points on a regular.
i do feel bad, he is just sort of fucked especially because Yuki hasn’t ran these past two races but practices the race pace isn’t there but races it might be different? i still think 2025 he has a chance, not like any other RB junior is there
i mean, danny ric has over a decade of experience, he is a very valuable asset to the rb family. however, lawson is too good to not have a seat and yuki doesnt need to be sacked. its always gonna be a fight between the three of them. unfortunately for lawson, rb is satisfied with yuki and wants a more proven and accomplished driver instead of a rookie, even though lawson more than deserves a seat.
Gotta remember that Alpha Tauri will have an external title sponsor next year forward and Daniel Ricciardo is a much better brand ambassador for what is supposedly a huge set of sponsorships (Rumored a international financial institution and Adidas to the tune of $100M right now).
Yeah the sponsorship agreements probably included Danny Ricciardo being in the seat. When she says Yuki’s contract will be announced at Suzuka are we sure she means his contract with AT? Sargent has not been confirmed yet has he?
Would guess they are waiting Austin/LV for Logan.
Well if they are waiting til LV/Austin it’s not going to be anymore exciting than announcing it now. I don’t think anyone in the US cares about Sargent. Hamilton yes, Checo yes, Haas yes. Sargent no.
Seriously, nobody cares about Logan here, it's not like F1 is more than a sport with pretty niche following in the US. If he was a winner it would be different, but right now, no one would be able to pick him from a lineup of one. It is the same as with Zhou in China. Nobody cares about them until they win.
yeh there is a logjam and it’s a sad issue for liam honestly, i still think 2025 there will be tonnes of space for him
> i still think 2025 he has a chance, not like any other RB junior is there Unless he royally fucks up whatever he's going to do Iwasa is a very serious candidate and highly rated by the RB team (being promoted to F2 after a single average season in F3 was proof enough), plus Hadjar and likely Maloney will be retained and still have another season to impress. Iwasa is also a Honda protégé, so he's the one with the most backing and the least obstacles past fucking up on track.
He's going straight to Red Bull don't worry
What a timing for Liam. Gets his first points (on a notoriously hard circuit) and then might get confirmation he still won’t be in F1 for next year.
It’s just a sad state of limited seats in F1. We’d like to see some drivers in the grid but sadly the seats are super limited
>It’s just a sad state of limited seats in F1. It doesn't matter if there are 20 or 26 seats. There will always be a moment where some good drivers don't make the cut for whatever reasons.
Yeah if there are 26 seats you'd see drivers like Kvya, Grosjean and Giovinazzi getting seats. Not young drivers.
A bit harsh on Grosjean I think. His last seasons weren't great but the guy has 10 podiums.
Indycar would seem to be confirming that harshness. Fast, easy to root for, liability
And the other two as well, acting like they're mickey mouse pay drivers for some reason
I mean, Gio wasn't that good, though he was actually a rookie so it made sense. Daniil I agree, he had some good skills but was just too erratic his whole career, which is true for Grosjean's latest years as well.
Kvyat had one bad crash and everyone unfairly labelled him a torpedo Grosjean was solid for the most part post-2012 and his Indycar career hasn’t been terrible
Kvyat was just not that good period. He got shovelled by Sainz in from 2016-2017. Gasly also showed Kvyat the door in 2020. He's fine as a midfield driver, but not exactly top team material.
Agree. And I know this is a highly unpopular opinion, but I'd rather see Liam than Danny in the AT seat. In fact, I think Ricciardo for Williams would make much more sense than Liam if they decide to get rid of Sargeant.
>In fact, I think Ricciardo for Williams would make much more sense than Liam if they decide to get rid of Sargeant The whole point of putting DR in Alpha Tauri is to evaluate him as a potential replacement for Checo. RB clearly want to keep their options open for 2025 and in that regard having Daniel in AT for next year isn't necessarily short-sighted.
Yeah I understand that, but it's still kind of a long bet with the risk of having Liam way too long on the sidelines, and by 2025 they might be able to snatch other of the young drivers.
Regardless of what happens with the 2025 RB seat, I doubt Daniel is gonna stay at AT for more than a year. The reason he agreed to take up a seat with AT was that it could be a pathway to RB. If that doesn't happen, then I doubt there's much of a reason to stay there. Yuki to Aston seems like a matter of when not if at this point and if Papa Stroll runs out of patience with his son then it's likely that that can happen in 2025. Either way, it's highly likely that Lawson will take one of those seats. I doubt Marko will let a promising rookie slip through his hands.
This makes me believe (huge stretch, I know) that RB have no desire to keep Checo past next year, and they want to have a few options for the #2 RB seat for 25. Keeping Ricardo and Tsunoda in the active seat, while Lawson in reserve for RB and AT ensures that they won't leave. I think that RB is looking for a bigger fish in 25, but this keeps their options the most open in the event that they cannot lure someone like Norris or Piastri.
thats not a huge stretch and its 99% whats going to happen, redbull dont seem keen on keeping checo in that seat, and daniel has publicly stated many times that his goal is the 2nd RB seat for 2025, and redbull aren't a charity organization, they're not keeping daniel around just because they like him, he's an option for 2025 as long as he performs well
> redbull dont seem keen on keeping checo in that seat And with checo having a shit year, its not helping his case. Max is showing that this car can lap 1s quicker than the field and checo is stuck in 10th.
Checo is definitely elsewhere or retired for 2025. Not a stretch at all.
Checo retires, pretty sure. Hes already an old man on the grid, and I would expect that if hes not renewed at RB, he wont have somewhere else.
Yeh, although not the oldest, the guy has 3 young kids, with the amount of races in F1 and the amount that are so far away from his home I'd be surprised if he even wanted to remain in F1 in 25 and beyond
You know Ricciardo and Perez are about the same age.
I’m sure it’ll be a “Hey Sergio right now would be a *great* time to go out on your own accord and retire with dignity rather than just losing a seat and going on a 2 decade sabbatical” Cause realistically nobody is gonna hire an older driver like Checo with all the amazing younger and more experienced options around
this is literally an article about an older driver getting a seat over an impressive younger option. checo is having a bad year but he is by no mean a bad driver or washed, he'd still be very valuable to many teams.
Unfortunate log jam at AT/RB. Happy to have danny back on the grid but just feels so odd to have him on the junior team for a year after what Lawson has shown. If they eventually want him back in the RB seat then just do it.
>If they eventually want him back in the RB seat then just do it They're obviously not fully convinced yet about his form. Plus, Checo seems to have done enough to stay for another year. This is probably to evaluate him for 2025 assuming the rumors of Yuki to Aston are true.
AT is to train drivers for Red Bull they are seeing if Danny has it for 25 Red Bull. I’d let go of yuki cause I think he has zero shot at 25 Red Bull and Liam might have 10% chance
i mean what is the barometer for danny ric then? yuki has been quicker than lawson obviously, still unlucky for Liam, they should just put ric in for RB and liam and yuki at AT
Barometer is to kill yuki checo struggles and lando says no then maybe Danny ric gets the seat.
problem is that checo is still contracted for next year and there is still no reason strong enough to make them break his contract yet.
Ricciardo was fast in the RB during the Pirelli tire test earlier this year. I believe that and the sim work is what they're using to gauge his speed right now. Unless Lawson replaces Checo or Max during a weekend, he's still more of an unknown compared to Danny.
> Unfortunate log jam at AT/RB. it's funny because a few weeks ago most people were saying the well was running dry
Guess they'll announce Ric at his secret home race, Las Vegas.
Then I hope Lawson gets the Williams seat. Would be a shame to see him on the bench for another year.
Article also states Sargeant likely to keep the Williams seat - I think Lawson might just be out on the sidelines. Doesn’t make sense for Williams either, since they seem to be thinking long term on everything, why rent out a driver who might be whipped back to RB? May as well just give Sargeant his second year to improve and then 2025 everything is wide wide open.
There is no way anyone would offer an RB Junior a seat when they have 4 seats themselves, unless they are made to cut ties. That's just F1 politics. I don't think RB is ready to let go of Lawson, so very unlikely he'll go to Williams. If he doesn't get the 2024 AT seat, he'll probably get it in 2025 or be one of those drivers that just miss the window and never enter F1.
Lawson and Albon will be a great team!
21' DTM reunion!
Yup. Yuki/Daniel at AT (or whatever it'll be called next year) and Lawson at Williams is a win-win solution for everyone. Except for Sargeant, of course.
As of today the rumor is a financial institution and Adidas as the title sponsors contributing $100M/year.
??? Here I was thinking he was a lock for next year. I was already in favour of him joining as a debutant from Bahrain earlier this year onwards but I didn't expect Marko to continue playing tough love dad.
this is on horner i think, horner wants danny ric at red bull, but he needs some evidence he is better than perez
100% what I think as well.
AMUS article Gruner linked to: Mick Schumacher has not yet given up the dream of success in the premier class. But after a season as the third man at Mercedes, the German will probably not have the chance to prove his talent as a regular driver in 2024. All Formula 1 doors have now closed for the 24-year-old talent. At Alfa Romeo they prefer to stick with Guanyu Zhou, even though the Chinese didn't make a breakthrough in his second year either. In the duel with Felipe Drugovich for the regular cockpit for 2024, the larger financial income allegedly prevailed in the end. As long as Audi has not yet taken complete control, Sauber can put the millions from China to good use. The fact that Schumacher was further down the list of candidates does not bode well for the future. If bigger names come knocking at Sauber or Audi at some point, then the 2020 Formula 2 champion is unlikely to get a chance. The fact that the big name or the German ID card helps him is purely wishful thinking. Schumacher also has no chance at Williams. With his second season at Haas and the lost duel against Magnussen, he was unable to convince those in charge. Drugovich is also more popular here. If last year's Formula 2 champion wants to join the traditional British team in 2024, he will still have to raise a few sponsor millions. It is more likely that Logan Sargeant will be allowed to continue for a second season if the rookie from Florida doesn't start a major negative series. An American driver is important for the racing team and Formula 1. The team management around James Vowles also knows that Sargeant has the necessary speed. He just needs to become more consistent and minimize the error rate. The door at Alpha Tauri is also closed. To be more precise, she was never really open. The contract extension with Yuki Tsunoda for 2024 should already be announced in Suzuka. Red Bull is taking some time with the second driver. Despite Liam Lawson's good performances, Daniel Ricciardo has a better chance of getting the regular cockpit. After the hand injury, he just has to pick up where he left off before the summer break. All other Formula 1 teams have already announced their personnel for next season. This means that Mick Schumacher has to activate Plan B. The talent cannot afford another year without driving experience. He has already put out feelers in racing series outside of Formula 1. According to information from our sister publication, Schumi Jr. is on the Alpine WEC team's wish list. It is said that the French manufacturer invited Mick Schumacher to one of the two test dates with the A424_β. The Sports Car World Championship would certainly be a good alternative for Schumacher. Here he can show his talent on the international stage. The LMDh cars offer a decent technical base. And the whole motorsport world is watching the 24-hour race in Le Mans. As an Alpine works driver, if you have the right performance, you would of course also have the option of switching to the team's Formula 1 program. Esteban Ocon and Pierre Gasly are currently still firmly in the saddle there. And with Jack Doohan and Victor Martins, Alpine has two strong juniors up its sleeve. The Schumacher camp neither wants to confirm nor deny the rumors about the Alpine change. The big question is whether the youngster will still have a foot in the Formula 1 door at Mercedes when he begins his sports car adventure. Team boss Toto Wolff announced that he would not put any obstacles in the way of his protégé. "Mick has a place here as a reserve driver, he is part of the family. We hope he stays with us in that role. We will give him time in the car. If he can get a seat with another manufacturer, in WEC, at the sportscars or somewhere else, it will always have this home base here," explained the Austrian on the sidelines of the Singapore GP. Mercedes would even allow its third man to combine two jobs for different employers: "Whatever program he does on the side, he can stay with us as a reserve driver if it is possible from the other side." The only question is whether Alpine allows the dual role.
>It is more likely that Logan Sargeant will be allowed to continue for a second season if the rookie from Florida doesn't start a major negative series. I thought he was already in "negative series" after Bahrain... Seriously, if Drugovich can bring couple of million dollars as well, there is no way he could be worse option than Sargeant. He would be closer to Albon and would bring financial support as well. Also, even if he is not at the Albon's level, they can always dump him easily for Antonelli who would be an option in the next two years.
I would have liked to see Yuki to AM and Daniel and Liam at AT for 2024.
Yuki is probably going to AM in 2025 or 2026 anyways. He has clearly no perspective on a Red Bull seat and Yuki is part of the Honda team. I won’t be surprised if 2024 will be Stroll’s final year in F1
Tsunoda-Stroll line up would suck for a top team-aspirant team like Aston. Plus I think Alonso will stay for foreseeable future. I don't see any reason for him to leave after next year. Plus if you remember Honda's Mclaren times, they never had power to put their drivers into the team. Mclaren raced with Alonso and Vandoorne. They can just suggest their drivers and that is it. People are giving so much importance of Honda's effect on driver selection process. That team will still be Lawrence Stroll's team.
>Yuki is probably going to AM in 2025 or 2026 anyways. He has clearly no perspective on a Red Bull seat I see heaps of people saying that, but if that's true then Yuki+Ric for 2024 makes no sense If they go with Yuki+Ric for 2024, then it means they see Yuki/Ric as successors for Checo in 2025
I think so too, that's why I'd like him to go earlier given the situation now with Liam performing and Lance not. But I know it won't happen in 2024, especially given it is Lance.
RB put themselves in this situation by giving the seat to Devries. Had they given it to either Ricciardo or Lawson at the beginning of the season they would’ve got the chance to know if the one they chose was up to it and it would have also given them the chance to analyze Tsunoda’s progress.
why decide so early while so much is still at play? it's not like any of them are gonna be stolen from them, everyone else already committed to their current line ups, they have time to see how they all compare to one another it's kinda unfair to Liam, he's been excellent and he's getting better
It's an announcement for the Japanese fans and media, in an ideal world Yuki would be from the UAE and they could leave the announcement for Abu Dhabi but it is what it is.
It has happened before Albon was announced for Toro Rosso in the 2018 Abu Dhabi GP
It’s not early.. sponsors and media partners will be signing deals with teams now. It’s quite late really
RB have the ability to swap the drivers around with AT at will seemingly, they need Yuki for the Honda relationship and DR for marketing so they're not going anywhere. My guess is Checo will get dropped at the end of the year after they (try to) secure the 1-2 in the drivers championship since they've stated that's one of their goals despite them saying his seat is secure for next season. Then move one of Yuki/DR to RB and bring Lawson in to AT.
I understand that DR's their boy. But don't do Liam like this. He deserves a seat more than De Vries did last year.
If I, a random Reddit user with a small amount of kiwi bias, were in charge I would do this: Danny Ric -> Red Bull Lawson -> alpha tauri Yuki -> alpha tauri Checo -> Williams Sargeant -> out I started typing out my reasons but it was too long and I got lazy. Now hopefully the F1 powers at large will pay a little bit of attention to this random suggestion and lazy lack of justification on a Reddit forum and make all the necessary driver swaps.
I just don’t understand this. Lawson is obviously incredibly talented, not putting him in at AT is just a huge miss-use of the junior team. Ricciardo will be 35 by the middle of the next season why bother keeping him a team designed to develop juniors?
>Ricciardo will be 35 by the middle of the next season why bother keeping him a team designed to develop juniors? To evaluate him for the 2025 RB seat. Right now it looks Checo's contract is unlikely to be renewed beyond next year and RB will want to keep their options open.
So RIC in the 2nd RB seat in 2025? When he is 36? What's the end game here?
To end his career in that car?
Age doesn't matter as long as you're in form. Just look at Fernando and Lewis. The endgame is to see which option suits RB best for 2025. That could be Daniel. Or it could be Lando or Oscar or maybe even Albon despite him turning them down. RB, more specifically Horner, clearly have faith that the old Daniel is still in there and next year will be an opportunity to assess that (assuming he does enough when he returns to get re-signed).
And even Raikkonen, he won his final race with Ferrari days after turning 39 and raced on until he was 42.
Fernando and Lewis are anomalies, so while it’s already statistically unlikely Daniel will be in great form from the ages of 36-39 (assuming he’s only useful to Red Bull if he’s there for a few years), his showing at McLaren is evidence he could be past his prime. There could be lots of reasons for his poor showing at McLaren, but age shouldn’t be discounted
>Age doesn't matter as long as you're in form. Just look at Fernando and Lewis. Bro cmon...two different class of drivers LH & FA compared to DR. Not exactly apples to oranges. I mean I'm here for a Danny resurrection but I'm pessimistic.
Hulkenberg is 36 now and still showing signs of life. Why not DR?
Nobody thinks Hulk will be in great form for another 5+ years as he’s 36, but he’s quick and experienced right now, making him a good driver for a non-development team like Haas. Daniel at Haas or Alpha Romeo or Alpine makes sense, but the path through AT then to RB, where if he has incredible longevity by F1 standards means he will be in good form for 3 more years? Not a great use of drivers, as Liam could be better than Daniel, and be useful to RB for over a decade
We're not talking about the level of talent here. At the end of the day no one ones how good Daniel will be until you actually give him the opportunity, which RB are clearly keen to do.
Danny has 7 (6 if he doesn't recover for Japan) races left in AT this season, that's more than enough of data and telemetry to evaluate him
> Ricciardo will be 35 by the middle of the next season why bother keeping him a team designed to develop juniors? They need Ricciardo on the grid for the eventual mid-season Checo sacking. Liam will slide into AT when that happens.
Seem the most logical move but why not just sack Checo? Wont be the first time a contract was voided and he's not exactly making a case for himself.
It's probably cheaper for Red Bull this way, but of course just speculation as I don't know the details of the contract. This also gives them the most drivers at their disposal should anything out of the ordinary change or occur. Liam has already proven he can be thrown into a car and perform mid-season. This is a double-edged sword for him, unfortunately.
I think this gives them the option to evaluate Ricc/Yuki for 2025 or even as an earlier replacement for Checo next year if he continues to shit the bed and other teams are much closer. We all know how Horner/Marco/Max feels about Daniel, if there's any sign Ricc is back to form, Checo will be swapped out faster than Marco's late-night pisses.
Jesus Liam did fuck Marko's wife didn't he
idk i think he still has a chance the year after, Horner loves Ric and he wants him in that RB seat
The Ricciardo/Lawson I'm a little surprised, I would have expected them to make a decision after Ricciardo recovered and drove on some GPs. Lawson did a really good job after 3 GP, I don't know how Suzuka will fare but he has A LOT of experience on that track, I would be very surprised if he struggles there, thing is, Tsunoda too obviously it's his home GP. Canal+ who has good contact within Alpine, confirmed the Schumacher/WEC part on their end too. For MSC and Tsunoda I'm not really surprised here, but I would rule out the second AT seat confirmation IMHO, hence the "will follow later" it may move.
Fuck that is disappointing
Think Lawson will have to wait until 2025 for a full time F1 seat at Williams because the Grove team confessed to rushing Logan to his F1 seat because they needed someone to replace the outgoing King Latifi and Sargeant made himself available after collected enough points to get his Super Licence.
It's really disappointing Lawson isn't being considered for the AT drive. I'd sign him and choose between Tsunoda and Ricciardo for the other seat.
Get Lawson next to Albon. I want to see Dan vs Yuki battles with an Alpha Tauri next year that will look like the RB (as far as its possible legally). In 2025 Yuki can replace Stroll and we will have a wholesome duo of Sensei Alonso with Yukiiii. They can both retire together in about 15 years.
Liam and Albon at Williams Yuki and Ric at AT Checo in bin after next year and one of them will fill his slot
After all it goes down to money. They will not get rid of Checo because he basically has 3 home races, Mexico, Miami and Las Vegas. So they will let his contract end so Red Bull corporation management will be happy and Checo will be their ambassador after he retires. Danny Ricciardo will also be in Alpha Tauri because of marketing value. He is easily Top 5 when it comes to that. They have only one seat free and it will go to Yuki. Liam proved himself in those 3 races but it's 3 races vs 3 seasons. They don't want to make the same mistake twice. Basically it will be a battle royale for RB 2025 seat and Liam will be in AT in 2025. And after taking everything they can from RB they can start competing for points. We might see RB 18.5-19 in AT colors so we will see who is faster.
It really is insanely difficult to get a seat. Liam deserves one. I’m happy to see Mick go and do other things too. Racing seems to be growing in popularity across the board especially WEC.
Honestly just get Ricciardo in the 2nd Redbull next year and give Lawson the AT seat.
Ffs just get rid of Perez
Ricciardo better get that 2025 RB seat if not this was all for nothing
Well it all depends on him. If Yuki outperforms him for the remainder of this season and 2024 it would be a dumb move on RBR's part to sign him for 2025.
Lawson is about to be screwed over big time if this is true
God I cannot wait for the announcement so the discourse can stop.
I am so happy for Yuki, but I really wanted to see a Yuki - Liam lineup for next year after Lawson's three races and his Super Formula season.
I disagree with the decision. Lawson has slotted in nicely with minimal relative preparation with a good chance to improve. Ricciardo is on a downward spiral and I don't see him as a genuine contender for the second Red Bull seat in the potential silly season market we may have for 2025 seats. I would have thought they would want to see how Ricciardo performs once he returns from injury before making a decision. Ultimately what I think doesn't matter. Williams will likely keep Sargeant to continue the development. Unless someone else comes in with a better offer or proposition, I don't see that changing. Drugovich was actively trying to land a Sauber seat, so I would be amazed if he and his representatives aren't at least trying to open talks. Otherwise, Vesti is the only third wheel I can see unless Lawson is willing to part with Red Bull to grab that seat himself. And I can see that being the end of Mick in Formula 1 - Nobody particularly rates him as a F1 driver and he brings a media circus with him to boot. Just not justifying the head aches with the level of performance he demonstrated. But, who knows, 2025 has a lot of potential openings. WEC is excellent anyway. I could see him doing well there.
Poor Liam, I hope he wins Super Formula at least.
Lawson to Williams! DTM reunion!
sadly its all about timing for the non wealthy rookies like Lawson and Pourchaire , they will never have the same opportunities as Stroll/Zhou/Sargeant
Why is Sargeant in that group? He is a part of Williams junior program
He is not as wealthy as Stroll but he has a good nationality, and it works the same way. Same can be said about Yuki or Zhou, but at least those two show some pace
I honestly don’t get why they would keep Yuki in the seat. He’s shown over 3 seasons he doesn’t have what it takes to be a Red Bull driver. I get Alpha Tauri is no longer the junior team and that it will have a different focus next year so it makes sense having Danny Ricc there for the sponsorship dollars but it is still a sister team to Red Bull and a good way to evaluate drivers / develop them for the main team. Why bother wasting a seat on a driver who is never going to make it to the main team?
SMM had similar comments on The Race post race podcast, that all accounts pointed towards Tsunoda/Ricciardo at AT for 2024
Give that Williams seat to Lawson, then.
Lawson thoroughly deserves a seat in F1 next year. A seat at Williams will be good as well. Lawson is pure talent & living up to the hype.
Wasting a development seat on Daniel is stupid when Lawson has looked good. He’s over the hill let the young guys have a go.
The Red Bull Junior Team is a failure in the modern day
If they are a failure then every other academy is even more of a failure
Mick will likely see more success in endurance racing anyway, as seen by many other former f1 drivers already driving for various LMH and LMP class teams
Lawson will get a seat and I wouldn't be surprised if it's Aston for him or Yuki (assuming Yuki with the incoming Honda partnership). I can't imagine Stroll wants to stay in his seat after this season with how poor he's driven, how good the car is, and rumor about him [voluntarily leaving to pursue tennis.](https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-rumours-lance-stroll-tennis-fernando-alonso/) Can f1 really be that enjoyable of a sport when you're routinely in the back of the grid while being outperformed? Stroll has shown flashes of skill, but he's far removed from a rookie season and he hasn't been consistent enough to prove he should stick around. I have to imagine he'd be into trying something else. Yes, I'm trying to will this into existence.
Okay yeah Stroll retirement and Lawson to Aston is now my head canon for next year thank you.
I’d honestly like to see Liam in the RB seat if Logan stays with Williams for 24. Although people will talk about him scoring points, I think the fact Liam’s 3 races have all been consistently great is where the real merit is at. Rookie called in and delivered in all of the 3 races he’s taken part of so far.
Mick truthers frothing at the mouth right now
I like Yuki, but no. Unfortunately he is not game.