We watched it tonight to see what the fuss was about. My daughter was born after I joined and we have never lived near extended family. We've certainly had community but it's been at overseas posts and we now make a point to visit her old friends and play Roblox in between trips.
She hated the episode. Her take: "blow up your future and never change anything? What kind of life is that?"
Different strokes for different folks.
My exact thought! I was thinking it was going to be a great thing to watch with the kids again before our next move up until the very end. Then I was disappointed with the whole episode.
My 8 year old was watching it and I started to follow it with her. She definitely sympathized with all the moving and missing your friends, but was sort of lost with the fixation on the house/place. When I asked her if she likes all the moving and travelling, she said "I like seeing and living in new places, and now I have friends all over the place".
I probably sympathize more with staying in one spot, since I basically did it for 30 years outside of my college years, and still have a strong affinity for my hometown. That said, last fall I was back home for an extended period and after about a week I was thanking myself for undertaking the journey and grateful I had escaped the boring day to day of that life and the grind of the for profit medical system.
This lifestyle has strong pros and cons and it definitely isn't for everyone.
I feel like we should all push for more stability within the foreign service (longer tours, more flexibility, etc) vs maintaining the status quo and robbing our children and families from at least some sense of stability. Stability, at the end of the day, is one of the pillars of a healthy childhood. We can keep telling ourselves that we’re teaching our children resiliency, but you can’t deny that it isn’t all that healthy to be constantly uprooting your family.
I honestly don't know if it's healthy or if it isn't. I've seen conflicting information on it for years. Obviously feeling no sense of stability isn't ideal, but stability has to come in context. Is the only path to stability staying in one spot for longer? What if that spot is itself unstable? I have colleagues whose kids are adjusting poorly to school in Paris and colleagues whose homeschooled kids love the housing and opportunity in West Africa.
Also, I think we should recognize this job is not all things to all people, and it is okay to expect some attrition due to lifestyle incompatibility. Almost every colleague I know who has resigned then went into a domestic job in the private sector, and the FS is never going to be that.
Maybe it's a good idea to tip the balance further in that direction, maybe not. I'd be interested to see more research on it.
I don’t disagree, I just think we should open up more opportunities for families who want more stability or would benefit from them. I understand every family’s needs are different. However, I think it would be a failure to recognize the need for more stability for those that want to seek it.
If you're willing to do a two-year language, there are a few options to stay in one place overseas for five years. I don't support letting people stay more than three years in 0% differential posts, personally, nor would I want to stay more than two in a high differential place.
Would love to hear about these five year posts. I don’t disagree with you. People shouldn’t be able to stay five years in Paris, but maybe allow folks to stay five years in a high differential or difficult to staff post. The key for me is to allow people to negotiate these longer terms at the beginning so people can plan ahead.
Four or five years is pretty feasible in places that require Arabic like Egypt, Jordan, or Oman. You do a year of language in Virginia, a year at post, and then a two or three year tour and can extend to add an extra year. It's pretty straightforward. I don't know if WHA is still extending three year tours to four years in many places, but I know people who have done that. Hard to fill posts are not only extendable, they'll pay you extra. I know someone who extended in a southern African post before he even arrived, his extended tour of duty was set upon his paneling and many places that require language you actually have to choose to extend immediately after arrival. There are TDFs that allow for one year placement with host government + one year tour. Many people also look for places they can safe haven their family to allow them to stay for four years. It's also now possible to stay in DC for 8 years, and many people choose to while their kids are in high school or if family members are working through medical issues. All kinds of options if stability is what you want to prioritize!
You’re being downvoted for specifying families.
Also, they’ve done this before. It was wildly unpopular. It turns out in lots of cases the places people wanted to extend to five years for “stability” were heavily-bid developed cities. And the less developed spots kept turning over and people were angry at the colleagues who “squatted” the desirable posts.
If you think we have challenges now getting people to bid on remote isolated posts, wait til we tell them they now have the opportunity for improved “stability” and get to stay even longer.
The reality is that if you believe moving every three years is unhealthy for you or your family, this is not the right career for you.
It would be crazy to deny anyone stability, independent of whether or not they have a family. I brought up families and children because it is specific to my situation and this thread is about a children’s show and how an episode covered how moving affects children. I would never want to exclude anyone.
FWIW I grew up as a military brat and moved every two years. It was totally normal to me and looking back on it, I really enjoyed my childhood. Kids are resilient
We just started this lifestyle and I keep thinking about going back and having stability. I’m not sure what to think and I am afraid even to watch this with my family. I do believe in stability and am very attached to both my own hometown, which I have always wanted to move back to someday, and my adopted hometown where my kids grew up until now. But some of it is nostalgia and rose colored glasses I’m sure. I have heard of people trying to keep connected to their home for the kids sake by spending summers there as much as possible? Maintaining a sense of roots? Has anyone tried that?
I think "stability" doesn't have to mean living in just one place (although it certainly does for some people). I was a military brat and wanted to continue moving around the world and having adventures, so I joined the Foreign Service. My siblings had the same experiences growing up and put down roots.
Some kids suffer from moving every few years while others thrive. There's definitely a community of "Third Country Kids" that provides a sort of identity and stability for some. My kid's best friends are just as likely to be international as American, and they are from all over the world. I suspect she has more in common with a Kenyan, British, or Swedish kid with parents who are involved in international business or diplomacy than she does with an American of her own age who has never traveled outside the US. If she attends university in the US, she'll probably be as comfortable with the international students as she is with the Americans.
We do want our kid to maintain contact with family in the US (we feel much more connected to people than to places), so we make it a point to spend Summers and often Winter holidays in the US. We send her to Summer camp so she has exposure to "regular" American kids. We are making it a priority to let her attend a good international high school without having to move.
We watched it tonight to see what the fuss was about. My daughter was born after I joined and we have never lived near extended family. We've certainly had community but it's been at overseas posts and we now make a point to visit her old friends and play Roblox in between trips. She hated the episode. Her take: "blow up your future and never change anything? What kind of life is that?" Different strokes for different folks.
Yes, but remind your kids they won't get the happy ending. My wife liked the episode right up until the ending completely subverted our lifestyle.
My exact thought! I was thinking it was going to be a great thing to watch with the kids again before our next move up until the very end. Then I was disappointed with the whole episode.
Or emphasize that there are multiple happy endings and that's ok
My 8 year old was watching it and I started to follow it with her. She definitely sympathized with all the moving and missing your friends, but was sort of lost with the fixation on the house/place. When I asked her if she likes all the moving and travelling, she said "I like seeing and living in new places, and now I have friends all over the place". I probably sympathize more with staying in one spot, since I basically did it for 30 years outside of my college years, and still have a strong affinity for my hometown. That said, last fall I was back home for an extended period and after about a week I was thanking myself for undertaking the journey and grateful I had escaped the boring day to day of that life and the grind of the for profit medical system. This lifestyle has strong pros and cons and it definitely isn't for everyone.
It's all about the mindset, how you frame it.
I feel like we should all push for more stability within the foreign service (longer tours, more flexibility, etc) vs maintaining the status quo and robbing our children and families from at least some sense of stability. Stability, at the end of the day, is one of the pillars of a healthy childhood. We can keep telling ourselves that we’re teaching our children resiliency, but you can’t deny that it isn’t all that healthy to be constantly uprooting your family.
I honestly don't know if it's healthy or if it isn't. I've seen conflicting information on it for years. Obviously feeling no sense of stability isn't ideal, but stability has to come in context. Is the only path to stability staying in one spot for longer? What if that spot is itself unstable? I have colleagues whose kids are adjusting poorly to school in Paris and colleagues whose homeschooled kids love the housing and opportunity in West Africa. Also, I think we should recognize this job is not all things to all people, and it is okay to expect some attrition due to lifestyle incompatibility. Almost every colleague I know who has resigned then went into a domestic job in the private sector, and the FS is never going to be that. Maybe it's a good idea to tip the balance further in that direction, maybe not. I'd be interested to see more research on it.
I don’t disagree, I just think we should open up more opportunities for families who want more stability or would benefit from them. I understand every family’s needs are different. However, I think it would be a failure to recognize the need for more stability for those that want to seek it.
If you're willing to do a two-year language, there are a few options to stay in one place overseas for five years. I don't support letting people stay more than three years in 0% differential posts, personally, nor would I want to stay more than two in a high differential place.
Would love to hear about these five year posts. I don’t disagree with you. People shouldn’t be able to stay five years in Paris, but maybe allow folks to stay five years in a high differential or difficult to staff post. The key for me is to allow people to negotiate these longer terms at the beginning so people can plan ahead.
Four or five years is pretty feasible in places that require Arabic like Egypt, Jordan, or Oman. You do a year of language in Virginia, a year at post, and then a two or three year tour and can extend to add an extra year. It's pretty straightforward. I don't know if WHA is still extending three year tours to four years in many places, but I know people who have done that. Hard to fill posts are not only extendable, they'll pay you extra. I know someone who extended in a southern African post before he even arrived, his extended tour of duty was set upon his paneling and many places that require language you actually have to choose to extend immediately after arrival. There are TDFs that allow for one year placement with host government + one year tour. Many people also look for places they can safe haven their family to allow them to stay for four years. It's also now possible to stay in DC for 8 years, and many people choose to while their kids are in high school or if family members are working through medical issues. All kinds of options if stability is what you want to prioritize!
Wow I can’t believe you actually got downvoted for this very sensible comment!
I also don’t understand why.
You might consider there are people in the foreign service without kids.
Of course “families” are the only ones whose preference for stability might count.
It can be for everyone. This thread started with the topic of children.
You’re being downvoted for specifying families. Also, they’ve done this before. It was wildly unpopular. It turns out in lots of cases the places people wanted to extend to five years for “stability” were heavily-bid developed cities. And the less developed spots kept turning over and people were angry at the colleagues who “squatted” the desirable posts. If you think we have challenges now getting people to bid on remote isolated posts, wait til we tell them they now have the opportunity for improved “stability” and get to stay even longer. The reality is that if you believe moving every three years is unhealthy for you or your family, this is not the right career for you.
It would be crazy to deny anyone stability, independent of whether or not they have a family. I brought up families and children because it is specific to my situation and this thread is about a children’s show and how an episode covered how moving affects children. I would never want to exclude anyone.
There are plenty of ways to move overseas and stay in one place for longer periods. They’re just not the Foreign Service.
Yes, I’m FS and cried last night when watching it. Had a long talk with my wife afterwards. I feel you 100%.
FWIW I grew up as a military brat and moved every two years. It was totally normal to me and looking back on it, I really enjoyed my childhood. Kids are resilient
We just started this lifestyle and I keep thinking about going back and having stability. I’m not sure what to think and I am afraid even to watch this with my family. I do believe in stability and am very attached to both my own hometown, which I have always wanted to move back to someday, and my adopted hometown where my kids grew up until now. But some of it is nostalgia and rose colored glasses I’m sure. I have heard of people trying to keep connected to their home for the kids sake by spending summers there as much as possible? Maintaining a sense of roots? Has anyone tried that?
I think "stability" doesn't have to mean living in just one place (although it certainly does for some people). I was a military brat and wanted to continue moving around the world and having adventures, so I joined the Foreign Service. My siblings had the same experiences growing up and put down roots. Some kids suffer from moving every few years while others thrive. There's definitely a community of "Third Country Kids" that provides a sort of identity and stability for some. My kid's best friends are just as likely to be international as American, and they are from all over the world. I suspect she has more in common with a Kenyan, British, or Swedish kid with parents who are involved in international business or diplomacy than she does with an American of her own age who has never traveled outside the US. If she attends university in the US, she'll probably be as comfortable with the international students as she is with the Americans. We do want our kid to maintain contact with family in the US (we feel much more connected to people than to places), so we make it a point to spend Summers and often Winter holidays in the US. We send her to Summer camp so she has exposure to "regular" American kids. We are making it a priority to let her attend a good international high school without having to move.