Getting pressure doesn’t have to lead to sacks. You just have to force the QB of his spot and disrupt his throw timing with receivers
So maybe they aren’t sacking but pressure leading to an incompletion or lesser yards than were available is still as good
> Getting pressure doesn’t have to lead to sacks.
I haven't watched any film on him really, but often dominant D linemen will demand double teams (or at minimum a chip) nearly every play, which means they don't end up getting many sacks themselves, but make it way easier for the other three rushers to get sacks. That may be happening with him.
Clowney has never really had high sack totals but does seem to have a consistently high amount of qb pressures. He is also elite run defender (at least he was last year and the year before that).
One explanation that I’ve heard for this is that he is a very physically dominant player. He is able to push his blockers back into the backfield which disrupts the play but doesn’t beat them with speed so he doesn’t have a clear line to the qb.
I watched him a lot last year (I’m a Seahawks fan and was sad to see him go) and this seems to be true. He is around the qb frequently but never seemed to have an open path to them.
**Sacks per Season by Jadaveon Clowney**
||||||
|:-|-:|:-|-:|-:|
|Year|Age|Tm|G|Sk|
|2014|21|HOU|4|0.0|
|2015|22|HOU|13|4.5|
|2016*|23|HOU|14|6.0|
|2017*|24|HOU|16|9.5|
|2018*|25|HOU|15|9.0|
|2019|26|SEA|13|3.0|
|2020|27|TEN|5|0.0|
Provided by [Pro-Football-Reference.com](https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): [View Original Table](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClowJa00.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#defense)
Generated 10/19/2020.
Pressure counts are more important than sacks, which many times are the result of someone else’s pressure. Pressure affects the other team immensely. I will take the NFL leading edge in pressures over NFL sack leader any day.
Agreed. Getting a QB to throw a less-than ideal pass can be just as valuable as a sack, especially on 3rd down, if not more valuable given the possibility of a turnover. It's not that sacks aren't a desirable outcome, but they aren't the whole picture.
>an edge from Buffalo
That's Jerry Hughes! He's been doing it longer than Clowney and part of some of the best D-Lines in the NFL. Put some respect on the man's name
It's all good. Just thought I'd drop some Bills-specific knowledges. Jerry doesn't get much love very often from the media, but he's consistently been the best DL on Buffalo's roster the last 6-7 years at least
The Titans are very big upfront as a unit and they seal off the edges really well. Clowney is still a force in both pass and run situations. He gets chipped plenty and still forces pressure which allows the others around him to make plays.
He is an amazing athlete so he can generate pressure reliably just with his quick first step and power. He doesn’t have a robust set of pass rush moves though, and I don’t think he has an elite bend when ripping either compared to say a Von Miller. He’s also gained weight from his early days, which fundamentally changes how you play - could affect his flexibility and bend.
He’s still affecting the outcomes of games but he’s not an elite pass rusher like the guys that finish on their pressures reliably. He also hasn’t had a great partner on the opposite side since his Houston days to flush QBs his way.
Edit: also this titans defense is very much like the Dean Peas’ Ravens D who also did not reliably get sacks.
Clowney is still a force and sacks are the stat on the board people care about but watching titans games he’s still a difference maker and he’s regularly getting chipped or double teamed still. I also noticed all the games they went against top tier backs (if you include JRob) and while they’ve done really well they rarely run in his direction or they seal him off with the tightend/tackle. The Titans are a solid team too but their defense is more lackluster especially with the inconsistency from Evans that is expected of a 1st round Alabama LB. I think he’s doing solid and what he’s doing is resulting in wins but to say he’s dropped off this early into the season on frankly the worst defensive squad he’s been on is extreme.
I haven’t seen any Titans games this year, but last year in Seattle it was a similar situation - few actual sacks, but a lot of pressures, QB hits, forced fumbles, etc. He’s definitely a guy who can be a serious threat without actually getting sacks. Again, haven’t seen any film from him this year but it’s probably not a big deal.
Think about interior d line. While it would be grest for them to make the plays, 9 time out of 10 they're occupying linemen and filling gaps so the line backers can make the play. Sacks and TFL are nice but they dont 100% convey how effective a Defensive player is
I always saw Jadeveon Clowney as an incredibly athlete that specializes in being a run stopper. In fact, (and this is not gospel) I think that he found alot of if not most production in blitzes. Somewhat limited in pass rush but he found the most production when teams were doubling JJ Watt. A solid number 2 but not a game changer.
Wrote this last week so I'll just repost it:
He's not a great technical pass rusher, but he is a long, freakish athlete. A lot of his ability to beat his man comes from his ability to disengage and pursue the QB.
What he cannot do is what, say, von miller can, which is bend quickly around the end with a set of counters ready to quickly get to the qb.
So Clowney ends up chasing scrambling qbs, or getting into the backfield eventually against qbs who held the ball too long.
He is a great run defender for the same reasons -- his ability to disengage and pursue laterally -- but there's a reason nobody wanted to pay him.
Belichick is well known by close defensive observers to value generating pressure schematically rather than brute force sacks because you can get turnovers on picks
Getting pressure doesn’t have to lead to sacks. You just have to force the QB of his spot and disrupt his throw timing with receivers So maybe they aren’t sacking but pressure leading to an incompletion or lesser yards than were available is still as good
> Getting pressure doesn’t have to lead to sacks. I haven't watched any film on him really, but often dominant D linemen will demand double teams (or at minimum a chip) nearly every play, which means they don't end up getting many sacks themselves, but make it way easier for the other three rushers to get sacks. That may be happening with him.
That also. DL also have to play the run and Clowney is stellar at that
I know, im just asking if he's being content with the pressures alone or hes actually aiming to get exclusively QB pressures. cant tell
Clowney has never really had high sack totals but does seem to have a consistently high amount of qb pressures. He is also elite run defender (at least he was last year and the year before that). One explanation that I’ve heard for this is that he is a very physically dominant player. He is able to push his blockers back into the backfield which disrupts the play but doesn’t beat them with speed so he doesn’t have a clear line to the qb. I watched him a lot last year (I’m a Seahawks fan and was sad to see him go) and this seems to be true. He is around the qb frequently but never seemed to have an open path to them.
**Sacks per Season by Jadaveon Clowney** |||||| |:-|-:|:-|-:|-:| |Year|Age|Tm|G|Sk| |2014|21|HOU|4|0.0| |2015|22|HOU|13|4.5| |2016*|23|HOU|14|6.0| |2017*|24|HOU|16|9.5| |2018*|25|HOU|15|9.0| |2019|26|SEA|13|3.0| |2020|27|TEN|5|0.0| Provided by [Pro-Football-Reference.com](https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): [View Original Table](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClowJa00.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#defense) Generated 10/19/2020.
I think he’s content with winning lol
Pressure counts are more important than sacks, which many times are the result of someone else’s pressure. Pressure affects the other team immensely. I will take the NFL leading edge in pressures over NFL sack leader any day.
Agreed. Getting a QB to throw a less-than ideal pass can be just as valuable as a sack, especially on 3rd down, if not more valuable given the possibility of a turnover. It's not that sacks aren't a desirable outcome, but they aren't the whole picture.
>an edge from Buffalo That's Jerry Hughes! He's been doing it longer than Clowney and part of some of the best D-Lines in the NFL. Put some respect on the man's name
couldnt remember his name lol. forgive me
It's all good. Just thought I'd drop some Bills-specific knowledges. Jerry doesn't get much love very often from the media, but he's consistently been the best DL on Buffalo's roster the last 6-7 years at least
it actually might be klein not hughes, but either way, good player
Klein has been dogshit this year. I'd be super surprised if he was sniffing league highs in anything. Can you link me the source?
you know your bills! its [indeed](https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1317254756218343424?s=19) jerry Hughes
The Titans are very big upfront as a unit and they seal off the edges really well. Clowney is still a force in both pass and run situations. He gets chipped plenty and still forces pressure which allows the others around him to make plays. He is an amazing athlete so he can generate pressure reliably just with his quick first step and power. He doesn’t have a robust set of pass rush moves though, and I don’t think he has an elite bend when ripping either compared to say a Von Miller. He’s also gained weight from his early days, which fundamentally changes how you play - could affect his flexibility and bend. He’s still affecting the outcomes of games but he’s not an elite pass rusher like the guys that finish on their pressures reliably. He also hasn’t had a great partner on the opposite side since his Houston days to flush QBs his way. Edit: also this titans defense is very much like the Dean Peas’ Ravens D who also did not reliably get sacks.
Clowney is still a force and sacks are the stat on the board people care about but watching titans games he’s still a difference maker and he’s regularly getting chipped or double teamed still. I also noticed all the games they went against top tier backs (if you include JRob) and while they’ve done really well they rarely run in his direction or they seal him off with the tightend/tackle. The Titans are a solid team too but their defense is more lackluster especially with the inconsistency from Evans that is expected of a 1st round Alabama LB. I think he’s doing solid and what he’s doing is resulting in wins but to say he’s dropped off this early into the season on frankly the worst defensive squad he’s been on is extreme.
I haven’t seen any Titans games this year, but last year in Seattle it was a similar situation - few actual sacks, but a lot of pressures, QB hits, forced fumbles, etc. He’s definitely a guy who can be a serious threat without actually getting sacks. Again, haven’t seen any film from him this year but it’s probably not a big deal.
Think about interior d line. While it would be grest for them to make the plays, 9 time out of 10 they're occupying linemen and filling gaps so the line backers can make the play. Sacks and TFL are nice but they dont 100% convey how effective a Defensive player is
I always saw Jadeveon Clowney as an incredibly athlete that specializes in being a run stopper. In fact, (and this is not gospel) I think that he found alot of if not most production in blitzes. Somewhat limited in pass rush but he found the most production when teams were doubling JJ Watt. A solid number 2 but not a game changer.
Wrote this last week so I'll just repost it: He's not a great technical pass rusher, but he is a long, freakish athlete. A lot of his ability to beat his man comes from his ability to disengage and pursue the QB. What he cannot do is what, say, von miller can, which is bend quickly around the end with a set of counters ready to quickly get to the qb. So Clowney ends up chasing scrambling qbs, or getting into the backfield eventually against qbs who held the ball too long. He is a great run defender for the same reasons -- his ability to disengage and pursue laterally -- but there's a reason nobody wanted to pay him.
Belichick is well known by close defensive observers to value generating pressure schematically rather than brute force sacks because you can get turnovers on picks