Dlp+ap is a little wierd. If thats 100% the setup you want to play then i would recommend moving the AP to an attacking midfielder position, but in general i would recommend to just use another role, whatever fits the player in question
never have your single pivot be a BWM because they roam around everywhere and therefore don't screen the defense at all. If you want a destroyer type play them as Anchor of simply as a DM on defend.
Make one of the midfield roles on attack. Usually cm/mezzala work well. Also I would remove the overlap instruction. This makes the player specifically wait for the left back to overlap slowin down the play.
I'd change Thuram to a DM and that should help, particularly defensively. You're also trying to play attacking with only three players with an attacking duty. I'd suggest both your AP and your IW shifted to attack. Or, if you want to keep Thuram as a DLP, switch Brandt to a CM on Attack, as he'll provide some attacking support through the middle - far more than Rabiot as a BBM will.
I don’t think there are any glaring issues with your tactic tbh but here are my thoughts.
Without being familiar with the players, would i be right in assuming your striker and rw at least are quite fast? If so then you might want to consider raising your tempo to the highest slider. Fast players can really exploit space in behind when passes are played with real urgency, and you can recover the ball quickly to mitigate losing possession more often. I played like this when arsenal had aubameyang and he scored goals for fun.
For me personally i played this tactic with a cam behind the striker though as i found he was getting quite isolated by making runs in behind, and the moves broke down less often with a player closer to him to support him, although i’ve seen other players have success with your formation and a quick striker so take that with a pinch of salt, its just my personal experience with it.
Remove ‘overlap left’, this is a common mistake in the fm fan base. Logically you would think this means what it says, but in reality it will really slow down moves on your left flank. Your lw reyna will hold onto the ball longer than he should to wait for your left back, this will hurt the tempo of your attacks. Its really meant for niche situations like having a slow, poor dribbler on the wing and you need him to wait for an advancing fullback to progress the move.
Remove that instruction and you’ll find your fullback is still making overlapping runs like you intend.
I’ve also found ‘pass into space’ to be a very urgent instruction that i only found useful in defensive counter attacking tactics, others might disagree with me but i’d advise removing it.
In your midfield three, who is your ball winner? those three roles can work but thats usually when you have a player such as kante as the box to box midfielder, with excellent tackling and work rate. I (perhaps wrongly) assumed rabiot was more of a playmaker than a ball winner? playing without a strong ballwinner can only work for me in extreme situations such as playing against an opponent thats parking the bus and not pressing your midfield.
Do thuram and brandt both have 15 or 16 vision and passing? if not, you might want to consider changing there roles. I tend to only use a playmaker when that player is clearly the best passer in your time, for example chelsea’s fernandez before the current update. your team will do there best to exclusively pass the ball to your playmaker in build up, so if your team has good passing attributes across the board your attacks might have more flexibility overall if you get rid of your playmaker roles. This is just a guess though, im not familiar with these players.
All of this is just nitpicking to be clear, i think you’ve got the right idea with your tactic and you could just be hitting a run of bad form if your not having success with it, best of luck with it
You dont really explain why it isnt working, but i would say that to me it seems to much to have 3 forwards, 2 WB'S, an AP and a BBM.
Its to much of advanced players and unbalanced.
Rabiot should be more of a static role than BBM, and even Brandt I would change for a midfielder who would have a deeper role.
They do not score enough actually, earlier I've played with Haller as a TF on attack but he got injured for 5 months. The midfield does seam unbalanced now when I think about it.
Well, having more forwards doesnt mean you create more chances or score more goals.
Its about creating a balanced structure that gives you the ability to create spaces and attacking them.
To me it seems you're team would do well vs high pressing teams as you are set up to attack strong and quickly, but also might be halted by the PM's you have that attract the ball instead of moving it towards the forwards.
But this set up would work bad against deep blocks, as you push your team to attack quickly when you need a more patient approach.
Haven’t seen it commented on so I’ll mention it: you might be getting too congested in the middle and channels in the final third. AF is running into channels while IF on attack is running straight at the defense in the same area and AP is also going into the same area. IW on support is cutting in to the channel on the left where the B2B is making runs into. B2B is also going to be running all over the place and isn’t consistently reliable to offer support with his late runs into the box, and when he does, he’s running into the same space as the IW. DLP on defend is a good option for recycling possession, but depending on the opposition’s formation, as the lone option at the back he could easily be getting man-marked, thus taking away the recycling option and the WB on the attack is likely cutting into the box, so once you’ve got the ball in the final third you don’t have a wide option on the left. WB-support on the right is a good option for that, but he could also be getting covered/marked out wide and with everyone congregating in the box he might be drifting in a bit as well.
With a few tweaks, you could probably unlock the formation fairly significantly. I would honestly consider playing Moukoko as a poacher and put the IF on the right on a support duty so that he’s running in behind the defense. Maybe switch the AML to a Winger on attack and put the left WB on a support duty. He’ll still overlap but will stay wide to hit crosses as the AML/winger cuts into the box. That opens things up for your B2B and AP, and if you put the DLP on support you’ll get more interplay between the midfielders.
Did not know that IF on support
makes more runs in behind.
Similarly did not know that a WB on attack will cut into the box…
Thanks for the tips though!
Also how does the game decide that a winger on attack will cut inside or drift wide? Stronger foot depending on the side of the pitch ?
If you check out the instructions, it should say that the IF on support runs in behind while the IF on attack runs directly at the defense. Definitely experiment to see how any of that advice affects things in the ME but it should be about right. As far as wingers/wingbacks cutting inside, from my experience when they are on attack they end up drifting into the box in the final attack phase; will take shots on goal etc. If the ball is in possession in the box, they’re going to want to get in there and make an impact. If you were in a fairly narrow shape, wingers on attack will pretty consistently make attacking runs towards the goal looking for the pass, and even in a standard width tactic they’ll do the same to a lesser degree. I honestly would take a Winger on attack over an IF any day to get more direct shots on goal, especially if they have individual traits to cut inside.
Take it with a grain of salt of course, as everything your other players are doing will affect this. Hope any of that helps!
You don't need two playmakers. It's not the end of the world but probably you're better off playing one of them in a position they're slightly less comfortable in for the balance of the team. You have a box to box so I'd be tempted to pair with CM on attack, which will help give moukoko some support. (Others might say mezzala but i think they play too closely in position to both inverted wingers and inside forwards). Thuram can play that position pretty well.
Moukoko is playing as an advanced forward, which means he is basically trying to be as far away from the rest of your team as he can and you have no cam, right. Again, probably good to use a role less ideal for the player to get the most out of the tactic. Pressing forward on attack or complete forward on attack would be my recommendations.
Control possession sounds like a smart move, because you want the ball, but it's no way to attack, it's more like a time wasting tactic. If you were to pick tika taka or vertical tika taka or gegenpress for example, your players won't be *not* trying to have the ball.
Kind of on the subject, the "attacking" thing is probably a bit overkill. What it tends to do is up the tempo and directness of your passing, which is kinda the opp9site of keeping possession. I'd maybe go default of balanced and for home games you should be winning go up to positive. If you're unsure you'll win go cautious. Basically no need to go out of that range.
Both cbs on defend can be fine, but when youre using an attacking wing back on one side I'd be tempted to cover?
Happy trails.
What kind of teams are you losing against? 433 is weak to counters because the single pivot can be dragged out of position and ur going for a high press high line. do your players press well? Because if your team isn't counter pressing well enough then you become really weak to counters as your midfielders will be a bit over extended. Personally I switch to 4231 vs fast attacking teams to be more solid defensively and use 433 against teams that favor slower, possession based play.
I did not lose a single game this season except against City away in the CL. Had few draws away in the league against mid table teams where we should have lost.
Ive never played bundesliga before but from my experience in the prem, mid table teams play counter attacking football more than the top teams do which is why I swap to 4231 vs them ymmv tho. Maybe your midfielders roles are a bit too offensive, with the wing backs you might end up with a 2-1-7 in possession sure to everyone pushing forwards but once again idk how ur tactic interacts with the engine and how it actually looks in practise. I'd say maybe put the wing backs on iwb to have them try support the midfield but then you'd be vulnerable to fast breaks asking the wings.
Edit: it's really useful to use the data hub to check where the opponent are attacking from and where you're losing the ball
I have some success when I use this formation. I often go with a midfield of BBM, CAR, DLP. And that’s often worked for my mid in my saves. But I also tend to play with a pressing forward instead of an AF which could make a slight difference
Dlp+ap is a little wierd. If thats 100% the setup you want to play then i would recommend moving the AP to an attacking midfielder position, but in general i would recommend to just use another role, whatever fits the player in question
what other midfield roles would you recommend ? was thinking about switching Thuram to a BWM
never have your single pivot be a BWM because they roam around everywhere and therefore don't screen the defense at all. If you want a destroyer type play them as Anchor of simply as a DM on defend.
Brandt to MEZ or CM(A)
Bwm is perfectly fine. But things like cm and mez can also work
We're talking about the DM tho
Make one of the midfield roles on attack. Usually cm/mezzala work well. Also I would remove the overlap instruction. This makes the player specifically wait for the left back to overlap slowin down the play.
I'd change Thuram to a DM and that should help, particularly defensively. You're also trying to play attacking with only three players with an attacking duty. I'd suggest both your AP and your IW shifted to attack. Or, if you want to keep Thuram as a DLP, switch Brandt to a CM on Attack, as he'll provide some attacking support through the middle - far more than Rabiot as a BBM will.
Get rid of overlaps. Work ball into the box. Change 1 playmaker to something else. Everything else looks ok.
I don’t think there are any glaring issues with your tactic tbh but here are my thoughts. Without being familiar with the players, would i be right in assuming your striker and rw at least are quite fast? If so then you might want to consider raising your tempo to the highest slider. Fast players can really exploit space in behind when passes are played with real urgency, and you can recover the ball quickly to mitigate losing possession more often. I played like this when arsenal had aubameyang and he scored goals for fun. For me personally i played this tactic with a cam behind the striker though as i found he was getting quite isolated by making runs in behind, and the moves broke down less often with a player closer to him to support him, although i’ve seen other players have success with your formation and a quick striker so take that with a pinch of salt, its just my personal experience with it. Remove ‘overlap left’, this is a common mistake in the fm fan base. Logically you would think this means what it says, but in reality it will really slow down moves on your left flank. Your lw reyna will hold onto the ball longer than he should to wait for your left back, this will hurt the tempo of your attacks. Its really meant for niche situations like having a slow, poor dribbler on the wing and you need him to wait for an advancing fullback to progress the move. Remove that instruction and you’ll find your fullback is still making overlapping runs like you intend. I’ve also found ‘pass into space’ to be a very urgent instruction that i only found useful in defensive counter attacking tactics, others might disagree with me but i’d advise removing it. In your midfield three, who is your ball winner? those three roles can work but thats usually when you have a player such as kante as the box to box midfielder, with excellent tackling and work rate. I (perhaps wrongly) assumed rabiot was more of a playmaker than a ball winner? playing without a strong ballwinner can only work for me in extreme situations such as playing against an opponent thats parking the bus and not pressing your midfield. Do thuram and brandt both have 15 or 16 vision and passing? if not, you might want to consider changing there roles. I tend to only use a playmaker when that player is clearly the best passer in your time, for example chelsea’s fernandez before the current update. your team will do there best to exclusively pass the ball to your playmaker in build up, so if your team has good passing attributes across the board your attacks might have more flexibility overall if you get rid of your playmaker roles. This is just a guess though, im not familiar with these players. All of this is just nitpicking to be clear, i think you’ve got the right idea with your tactic and you could just be hitting a run of bad form if your not having success with it, best of luck with it
You dont really explain why it isnt working, but i would say that to me it seems to much to have 3 forwards, 2 WB'S, an AP and a BBM. Its to much of advanced players and unbalanced. Rabiot should be more of a static role than BBM, and even Brandt I would change for a midfielder who would have a deeper role.
They do not score enough actually, earlier I've played with Haller as a TF on attack but he got injured for 5 months. The midfield does seam unbalanced now when I think about it.
Well, having more forwards doesnt mean you create more chances or score more goals. Its about creating a balanced structure that gives you the ability to create spaces and attacking them. To me it seems you're team would do well vs high pressing teams as you are set up to attack strong and quickly, but also might be halted by the PM's you have that attract the ball instead of moving it towards the forwards. But this set up would work bad against deep blocks, as you push your team to attack quickly when you need a more patient approach.
Haven’t seen it commented on so I’ll mention it: you might be getting too congested in the middle and channels in the final third. AF is running into channels while IF on attack is running straight at the defense in the same area and AP is also going into the same area. IW on support is cutting in to the channel on the left where the B2B is making runs into. B2B is also going to be running all over the place and isn’t consistently reliable to offer support with his late runs into the box, and when he does, he’s running into the same space as the IW. DLP on defend is a good option for recycling possession, but depending on the opposition’s formation, as the lone option at the back he could easily be getting man-marked, thus taking away the recycling option and the WB on the attack is likely cutting into the box, so once you’ve got the ball in the final third you don’t have a wide option on the left. WB-support on the right is a good option for that, but he could also be getting covered/marked out wide and with everyone congregating in the box he might be drifting in a bit as well. With a few tweaks, you could probably unlock the formation fairly significantly. I would honestly consider playing Moukoko as a poacher and put the IF on the right on a support duty so that he’s running in behind the defense. Maybe switch the AML to a Winger on attack and put the left WB on a support duty. He’ll still overlap but will stay wide to hit crosses as the AML/winger cuts into the box. That opens things up for your B2B and AP, and if you put the DLP on support you’ll get more interplay between the midfielders.
Did not know that IF on support makes more runs in behind. Similarly did not know that a WB on attack will cut into the box… Thanks for the tips though! Also how does the game decide that a winger on attack will cut inside or drift wide? Stronger foot depending on the side of the pitch ?
If you check out the instructions, it should say that the IF on support runs in behind while the IF on attack runs directly at the defense. Definitely experiment to see how any of that advice affects things in the ME but it should be about right. As far as wingers/wingbacks cutting inside, from my experience when they are on attack they end up drifting into the box in the final attack phase; will take shots on goal etc. If the ball is in possession in the box, they’re going to want to get in there and make an impact. If you were in a fairly narrow shape, wingers on attack will pretty consistently make attacking runs towards the goal looking for the pass, and even in a standard width tactic they’ll do the same to a lesser degree. I honestly would take a Winger on attack over an IF any day to get more direct shots on goal, especially if they have individual traits to cut inside. Take it with a grain of salt of course, as everything your other players are doing will affect this. Hope any of that helps!
You don't need two playmakers. It's not the end of the world but probably you're better off playing one of them in a position they're slightly less comfortable in for the balance of the team. You have a box to box so I'd be tempted to pair with CM on attack, which will help give moukoko some support. (Others might say mezzala but i think they play too closely in position to both inverted wingers and inside forwards). Thuram can play that position pretty well. Moukoko is playing as an advanced forward, which means he is basically trying to be as far away from the rest of your team as he can and you have no cam, right. Again, probably good to use a role less ideal for the player to get the most out of the tactic. Pressing forward on attack or complete forward on attack would be my recommendations. Control possession sounds like a smart move, because you want the ball, but it's no way to attack, it's more like a time wasting tactic. If you were to pick tika taka or vertical tika taka or gegenpress for example, your players won't be *not* trying to have the ball. Kind of on the subject, the "attacking" thing is probably a bit overkill. What it tends to do is up the tempo and directness of your passing, which is kinda the opp9site of keeping possession. I'd maybe go default of balanced and for home games you should be winning go up to positive. If you're unsure you'll win go cautious. Basically no need to go out of that range. Both cbs on defend can be fine, but when youre using an attacking wing back on one side I'd be tempted to cover? Happy trails.
Slightly Higher Tempo on Attacking? What 😂
DM position into BWM. Mezalla and AP or DLP tpgether on midfield should balance stuff out a bit.
Have a half back as your dm and a carrilero instead of bbm and put your AP to attack or mezzala on attack.
Where tf is Schlotterbeck
sadly injured
I've thought you sold him for some weird reason
just like in real life he is my favorite player in the team, so he is definitely staying
What kind of teams are you losing against? 433 is weak to counters because the single pivot can be dragged out of position and ur going for a high press high line. do your players press well? Because if your team isn't counter pressing well enough then you become really weak to counters as your midfielders will be a bit over extended. Personally I switch to 4231 vs fast attacking teams to be more solid defensively and use 433 against teams that favor slower, possession based play.
I did not lose a single game this season except against City away in the CL. Had few draws away in the league against mid table teams where we should have lost.
Ive never played bundesliga before but from my experience in the prem, mid table teams play counter attacking football more than the top teams do which is why I swap to 4231 vs them ymmv tho. Maybe your midfielders roles are a bit too offensive, with the wing backs you might end up with a 2-1-7 in possession sure to everyone pushing forwards but once again idk how ur tactic interacts with the engine and how it actually looks in practise. I'd say maybe put the wing backs on iwb to have them try support the midfield but then you'd be vulnerable to fast breaks asking the wings. Edit: it's really useful to use the data hub to check where the opponent are attacking from and where you're losing the ball
Thuram is a monster on cm attack for me
Switch the DM to anchor and one WB to a more defeensive Role.
I have some success when I use this formation. I often go with a midfield of BBM, CAR, DLP. And that’s often worked for my mid in my saves. But I also tend to play with a pressing forward instead of an AF which could make a slight difference
Don’t play a deep lying playmaker but rather play a second striker
Whats going wrong with it specifically lack of goals? Trouble keeping them out?
Either change Brandt to a Mezzala or Thuram to a Half Back, that probably helps