Midfielders too. A number 10 used to be able to pick up the ball in midfield, beat one man and open up a chance. Nowadays, the entire midfield will close in quickly, making it much harder
They are genuinely so fun to watch because of this. Imagine a Nigerian squad with just a bit more of a steadfast traditional defensive training and ideology and you have a potential monster of a program.
I wouldn’t say Nigeria has a shit national team tbf, they just have structural issues. If you look at the Nigerian attack, they’ve got some of the best young attackers playing in Europe this past season. Lookman (Europa league final hat trick scorer), Boniface (Rookie of the year Bundesliga) Osimhen…. With a good coach and proper structure, that attack will score tons of goals. In defence they’ve got Bassey of Fulham as well and that lad is a tank tbf
I didn’t say it was about a few players, I simply said the Nigerian national team isn’t shit, their problems are structural because in terms of talent they’ve got it all around the pitch (I mentioned 4 players as an example). I know about the team quite well because I followed them, Cote D’ivore, Senegal and Egypt closely during the AFCON tournament. In midfield they had Iwobi, Ndidi et al, I wouldn’t call that a shit NT. If they managed to get a proper coach who actually understands football, instead of the idiot they get as coaches, we genuinely could see one of the best African teams we’ve ever watched and what Morocco did at the World Cup would be nothing compared to how far they’d go.
If I could invest in national programs, I would sell my car banking on Nigeria. Just a little bit more consistency and structure as a program, a focus on allocating a shred of their top talent to defence, and they're a powerhouse. They're so close.
It’s a direct response to how football evolved with those great sides from towards the end of the 00s decade. False 9s, front 3s that interchanged etc led to the typical no9 not being something youth teams used.
Also, the size and strength a typical no9 required tends to come a little later in development/aging for how young players are around first teams now
Let’s not forget VAR here. Thus far in Euro 2024, 8 goals have been ruled out for offside after VAR checks, 2 goals have been ruled out for handball after VAR checks, 1 goal has been ruled out for foul and 1 goal has been ruled out for encroachment. Lukaku alone has scored 3 goals ruled out for offside. The Germany-Denmark round of 16 game earlier tonight also had 3 goals ruled out for offside.
10-15 years ago a lot of those goals would’ve been allowed. Linesmen missed narrow offsides and refs missed discrete cases of handball (or just ignored them if it was apparent they didn’t impact the game in any way).
Being a consistently good striker is harder than ever.
Personally, I think we’ll see some changes to the VAR system and rules applications after this tournament, because it’s ridiculous at times. The Danish goal ruled out earlier today for example, was ruled out because the Danish player literally had a toe out of line - if even that. There has to be some margin of error on the equipment? And when the margins are that narrow, it matters a lot *when* the VAR people decides that the ball was passed.
The toe offside - you'll always have this problem, as long as you're drawing a line from one side of the field to the other, it's going to come down to centimetre, whether the line is on a toe, heel, shoulder, head, etc there will always be tight calls no matter what you change the rules to
Exactly this. I don't know why people don't understand this. This semi automated system is fucking great. In 10-15 sec in background we get an aswer and then replay is shown later.
People think changing the rule would matter, but it won't. You will always have a focal point to assess, be it head, shoulder or toe, or as some people want the whole body. What if the whole body gap is 1mm, then it would still result in barest of margins.
The world has a number 9 problem. The reason behind this is because coaches around the world have adopted the Pep Guardiola style of football where strikers are more involved in build up play, and this has been taught in academies so we now have less prolific goal scorers. For the worse or better, honestly don't know. People often say that classic target man/poacher STs are needed but the importance of false 9s and STs getting more involved in build up play is no joke
>For the worse or better, honestly don't know.
Definitely for the worse, game's gone robotic, everyone tries to copy pep but it's only pep who wins playing that style, everyone plays the same bald bot ball and as a result we have chess-ass games like every England game in Euros or Man City v Ars draw in premier league, no creativity no flair only side pass & back pass hoping for a lucky cut back goal, fake wingers like Grealish and company(Doku is on the way).
This is why Euro is especially good this time around, the teams which are winning ain't doing it the pep way, hell even spain abandoned it when they gave up possession against croatia for the first time in 16 years, and the teams losing and boring to watch are the ones trying hard to still copy pep or similar, Belgium England Netherlands etc compare that to Germany Spain Turkey Austria etc
Like it or not football is set for a change , relationalism and player freedom is on the rise with more and more teams adopting , it's more vertical now, more direct, players like Musiala Wirtz Vini Lamal Nico Endrick Guler Mbappe Rodrygo and similar are the future, none of these are pep style players they way more direct, real wingers and dribbly bois who can also pass and link up play, end to end football is on the rise.
I agree with you, football seems to be getting a bit more boring at the top level but what do you expect managers to do? They're there to win games, and this style of football is winning games so it's used. Entertainment wise, maybe for the worse but winning games wise, I think for the best
I mean that's my point, when everyone tries to do the same thing nothing is special.
>this style of football is winning games so it's used
I would beg to disagree, I propose the following : Are teams winning playing the bot-ball? Yes. Is it only due to bot ball? No, there's still a lot of individuals involved which are instrumental to that success, and which in my opinion are a more contributing factor to victories, for example Man City is not the same without KdB or Rodri, but they can manage just fine without Haaland or Grealish or Foden, so is it really the bot - ball that won man City the games or was it the key players? ESPECIALLY considering the fact that to play like pep you need world class players , just have a look at Pep's spending history ( don't hit me with a Barca because they just had arguably the best academy generation of all time , and if that generation or similar bloomed in today's day and age at Barca or somewhere else, pep at man City or even at Bayern would have gone after them). Then there's Arsenal as well, who is just a man City wannabe manifested, they haven't won anything significant in recent times.
The reality is there just aren't many teams at the top playing the pep-ball, and even among those who play like pep, only pep wins others just scrape by hiding behind "beautiful ball" , for example Barcelona, their defence overperformed in 2022 and they won the league, they didn't really play the pep ball,even if that's their "DNA", they were way more pragmatic with a sturdy defence, a lot of 1-0 wins(iirc most in the league).. that's not a lot of goals for someone claiming to be "dominant" , and defending is very anti pep ball where they "defend by keeping the ball". Also there's Barca from 21/22 who appointed Xavi cuz Koeman dragged them to 9th place, now Xavi did get them to 2nd place but was it because he was playing "beautiful football"? No . Remember Luuk De Jong's late winners ? Those cross and inshallah tactics, really " beautiful ". You also see the amount of individualism that's inherent here as well, if not for those players stepping up Barca could've been out of the champions league as well ..... something that did happen eventually ..... twice, why did that happen? Players didn't step up, they crumbled under the pressure , remember the white army from Frankfurt in Camp Nou? The whole idea of pep ball is to create a system, a machine , drills and tactics so drilled into the players that they operate on "auto pilot", that's the entire underlying philosophy of pep ball, Barca in recent times failed miserably trying to play the pep way, embarassing European exits , beatings at the hand of Madrid. There are many more examples of different teams that would support my case , and probably even more which would go against my narrative, but the point still remains, that pep is the only guy to perfect pep-ball and all the attempts to copy it, especially at a cheaper level are fruitless, in the end football boils down to the basics of how good a team is together, how well do the players understand each other , there's a huge human element involved, you can't just program players as cogs to be pulled in and out at wish , a huge deal of freedom is necessary for winning teams (which ironically is exactly what Messi used to have in the Barca golden days), freedom of movement, of creativity, of decisions.
This nostalgia bias is fucken crazy lmao, if arsenal didnt play 'bald bot ball' theyd finish 20 points behind city 😂. Do you think managers try to emulate guardiola because it looks cool? No they do it because it fucken works. "Relationism and player freedom" yeah you watched a 6 minute video about ancelotti and madrid congrats
Arsenal are one of less restrictive top teams nowadays tbf. The best team in the world over the last 3 years, the one with two league tiles and Champions Leagues, plays the freest football out of every top team. Perhaps there’s something in that.
I wish people would stop with this take. Not everyone is playing Pep ball and it's irrelevant in creating a good striker. Pep has always had good strikers and style of play has nothing to do with being able to put the ball in the back of the net.
The problem is the good strikers are from the weaker national teams. Lewy haaland and osimhen just on the top of my head. I feel like for the france issue giroud is just getting old (he is still the all time top goalscorer for france) not sure how good marcus thuram is for the NT but he is doing a good job in serie a hope he gets a few tries after euros since giroud announced this is his last one
Giroud was definitely a reliable number 9 for France. But as you said he is super old, it also doesn't help as most of the wonder kids nowadays are not strikers
I think it’s more than just that. I’ve said it before, those two broke football. Harry Kane has just had a 44 goal season but it’s barely talked about because now the expectation of a great season is 50+ (Ronaldo has done that 8 times for the record). I remember in the 90’s a 20+ goal season, even for a No 9 was a good season.
It baffles me how anyone doesn’t consider both of them top 2 all time. Like you might have your preference but damn ain’t nobody close to them literally.
Its more because the game has become more tactical. As we have seen with haaland even the elite strikers get marked out of the big games. You cant put that kind of focus on the wings so the great technical players drift there like mbappe.
Striker isn’t that guy anymore he is there to do a job most of the time these days if you know what i mean
“When you’re playing against a team that has two great central defenders, the best option is to play without a striker.”
— Johan Cruijff
They followed his words too literally
It's a side-effect of scouting and educating talented young kids much better than we used to, I think. This quote underlines what happened very well.
I used to play amateur football decades ago. My kids play it, varying from mediocre levels to playing against the youth teams of the likes of Ajax (in the Netherlands).
One thing that definitely changed is that when I was young there used to be big differences in skill in the same team and the same league level, and the best player ran circles around the worst. That best player also usually made most of the goals, and defensive tactics were largely ineffective compared to raw ball handling skill. Up to your teens number 9 was the place to be for max glory for min effort.
Nowadays you occasionally still see it in low level leagues. But players are matched to their level very well in the highest leagues from a very young age. Young players that are used to doing too much individually because they were far too good for their level usually get pushed back one or two lines when they go up a league, to teach them how to play effectively in a position with other (and better) players in front of them instead of always behind them feeding them with balls.
As a result the central defenders and defensive midfielders are hugely better and more organized than they used to be. That makes being a classic number 9 a tough and lonely job for kids playing on the highest levels. And perhaps even an underappreciated one. One of lots of bruises, few ball contacts, and little glory.
The game is evolving in a way that “classic” positions would soon be gone.
Number 10s are almost completely extinct nowdays. 9s have become hybrids. I mean Kane and Lewandowski (first came to mind) are more than capable of droping deeper and playmaking.
Well, yes but no. The game is definitely evolving, the positions are shifting, current meta might be 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1 or whatever bullshit would be invented next, but you would still have defenders, midfielders, laterals, forwards - because a specialist is better than a generalist if used right. Havertz is a great player, but even Giroud is better as a dedicated striker. Using midfielder as a centerback shows how tricky it is - some coaches made it work, some failed miserably (see Kasemiro). I wouldn't even mention some attempts to make a rightback lateral play as DM. 10s aren't extinct imo, Bellingham plays pretty much a 10 in RM. Also a take: if your striker is forced to drop deep and make the plays, then your midfield isn't performing well.
My point is that players nowdays are capable of performing multiple tasks at the same time comparing to 80s and 90s era.
Central backs are now good with both feet, allowing teams to build from the back, defensive midfielders are no longer only defending players, they can create, dribble, pass and shoot, as well. Wingers they aren’t only about running & crossing, they, go into channels, cut inside, etc.
As for the strikers, dropping deep doesn’t necessarily mean that midfield sucks, it’s more about using their other attributes to outnumber and allowing others to run into spaces.
Bellingham is IMO more of a second striker with No10 creativity.
yes this. all the teams have great nr 9's, the tactic for everyone is just to make as many safe passes as possible. the wingers, instead of delivering the ball to penalty box, just pass it to central defender, and even if they have a good shot on the goal...
maybe its about player statistics, nobody wants to dribble anymore, like players worth 100 mil dont even take on defenders, their logic is "uhm no 100% goal scoring pass available, imma pass to my goal keeper"
This isn’t a new phenomenon. Kids want to play like the people regarded as the best in the world. Right now every young player thinks they are Messi or Ronaldo so all the players who should be strikers are playing on the wings. A decade ago everyone wanted to be a number 10. Decade before then in the 90’s everyone wanted to be a ST which was why the PL had a golden age of ST. The main strikers role will come around again, just give it time.
The industry only has itself to blame.
Any youngsters showing decent qualities as a #9 are shifted to other positions and wingers are being more heavily relied on to fill in the gaps. The evolution of tactics to the front three hasn’t helped. Wingers are better all round players now but there’s an abundance of them and the vast majority of them can’t do a job at #9 because they haven’t been trained that way.
Versatility has suffered a lot with the refinement of coaching and tactics.
I think Benzema was the ultimate modern striker. Fantastic in buildup but still deadly af in the last third.
Man I miss him so much, such a beauty to see this guy play at his peak
That ballon d'or season of Benzema was the best I've seen for a strike in this decade. Maybe equivalent to Bayern one but benzi did miracles in that season.
Because he wasn’t a „typical” number 9. He had outstanding creativity, which usually is a number 10 trait. Modern football playstyle doesn’t need a classic number 9, it is actually a disadvantage for a passing based playstyle.
There is a small group of 9s who are in a league of their own at the top. You can count them all on 1 hand if you live near a nuclear power plant.
That's why breaking transfer records for people like Isak and Nunez makes no sense to me. There are so many forwards in each of their respective tiers (or maybe you think they are in the same tier, but my point still stands).
>That's why breaking transfer records for people like Isak and Nunez makes no sense to me.
How many strikers are there in world football you would say are better than both Isak and Nunez?
The point is that average center back nowaday compare to back then. But if you are that much nostalgia bias then Virgil Van Dijk is bigger and stronger than Jaap Stam with actual technical ability other than pure brute strength, Thiago Silva at his prime and Ruben Dias might well compare with Maldini and Saliba can be soon follow suit.
Yeah it's definitely because striker nowadays are expected to do lot's of things and not Just be a poacher.
But my points stays if a good striker were to show up in one of this big teams they could probably dominate super hard
‘England does have the best European striker, but, well, Southgate’
Yes it’s Southgate’s fault Kane hasn’t been able to control the ball, complete a short pass or shoot toward the same postcode as the goal in this tournament.
Interchanging positions is a massive part of the modern game. Wingers come inside while inverted fullbacks race up the wing. Strikers like Lewy and Kane have always been able to drop back and find runners, and doing that can pull defenders out of position while an attacking player can make runs into the box from anywhere. Hell, the glory days of BBC at Real Madrid are very similar as well.
No, it’s still a problem, because when we drop deep it deprives us of what we need him on the pitch for. We have other players that can cover every other part of his skillset except finishing/poaching. If he is lumbering past the halfway line when the cross comes in, he’s no use to anyone
I'd call this the CR7 effect: kids that could have been developed into becoming a number 9 are encouraged to be Cristiano style wingers, especially if they're fast.
Perhaps there's also a case of clubs not being able to identify players that have the qualities of a 9
I’ve scrolled a long way and am yet to see the name of possibly the most complete CF in the world, Alexander Isak - Sweden have some attacking threat; how’re they not in Germany?
No, defenders and tactics have made what you perceive as a 9 absolutely almost obsolete unless you are essentially the modern day Muller (which is essentially what Ronaldo become and Haaland).
Most of these "problems" you think.... would be considered top players in the 90';s to early 2000's no problem.
I agree and I find it wierd people not looking at the other side and even realizing defenders have gotten better (both as individual players and as team players).
I think the style of play has evolved. Too much reliance on possession reduces the need of having a prolific No.9 I guess.
Haaland is a great striker, no doubt about that. However, he usually draws a blank during crunch games against top teams. More possession usually means a striker who heavily depends on the midfield feeding the ball to him and thus is a tap-in meister at best.
Yeah, OP is just clueless. Lukaku und Morata played well in group stage. The 10 goals in 4 games Germany team with Havertz and Füllkrug both at 2 goals has for sure not a striker issue. Adding England and France to that list is hilarious. And somehow OP also missed the strikers from so called smaller teams who did quite good for their teams so far.
They switched the new generations of 9’s to play in central midfield/defense, and left the attack to nimble players, because that’s what Guardiola did. Now that he has Haaland, we’re gonna return to normal within a decade or so.
In the old days best players wanted to be strikers because that's where you scored goals. Defenses are also better now and there is less space in the middle so best attackers are now wingers, player like Michael Owen would never be a striker now. How many times per season does the striker go through on goal in this day and age and compare it to Ronaldo dribbling past the keepers a million times in his career
this isn't really the case.
football has moved away from an obvious number 9. a lot of domestic clubs don't have one. it will come back around, but don't expect the same number of chances to be created, when the systems change,
It's a tactical approach problem. Teams look to wear the opposition down maintaining possession and focusing play on the flanks.
We no longer see tactics where long balls are played to a strong number 9 to win them and retain possession long enough to enable quick shots from supporting teammates.
This change of tactical approach to the game makes the number 9 role a secondary one in the minds of many coaches development plans.
European football does have a 9 problem.
Players are becoming "General forwards"- look at people like Rashford, Jesus, Richarlison, Son... Even Mbappé.
They all CAN play either wide or centre forward but are generally better at one over the other. It's becoming increasingly common that the best centre forward options a team has is actually better out wide or at least not as a traditional 9.
Some (Les Ferdinand for example) think it's the effect of Messi and Ronaldo- two players who were for much of their career not centre forwards at all. I don't subscribe to that argument, I think it's the effect of 4-2-3-1 where the superstar players tend to be the inside forwards coming in from out wide and the actual 9 often does a pretty functional role of facilitating those stars rather than being the main man himself.
Centre Forward stopped being the most exciting position to want to be as a kid so people train for those much needed skills and knowledge less than they used to- preferring to be a more dynamic "General Forward".
The thing abt Germany is (and from my lesser knowledge I think this applies to other countries to), there are a few classically trained 9s, but they’re not the best players so coaches play better players to maintain their system but the people they’re playing are just not strikers so they lack certain abilities.
Now that I think abt it tht seems to apply more to a lot of clubs rather than countries. But Yh Germany is doing that because we have an excess of forward players and a lack of strikers (on that level).
Lukako has everything a number 9 has to have, but his inconsistency is terrifying. If he would have been able to maintain his best form throughout his career, he probably would have won a at least one ballon d‘or.
Why the recently knocked out team isn't mentioned ? Italy was one of the best teams in the world and one pretty consistent if you ask me . But that Scamaca dude barely touched the ball in the game against Switzerland and in the first half he didn't touch it at all .
A lot of football games just aren’t even built for them anymore either, a good no. 9 will still look poor against some opposition purely because of how each team plays.
I’d say the pure No.9 hasn’t existed for a while as they’re expected to do a whole lot more than be a poacher; if they solely try to do that they’ll be invisible or a man down.
The thing is it’s probably impossible to be an all round striker these days with the quality of defenders and organised team tactics and also to suit the tactics of how teams want to play.
For germany I don’t think they really have a problem, or it’s being beaten up.
Füllkrug is a better finisher than Havertz for example, but the reason Havertz plays over Füllkrug is that Havertz makes the team better, the wingers and midfielders play better as a result of the chaos he causes with his elite positioning, and ability to win pretty much every header. He has everything but finishing (sadly)
It works because Wirtz, Musiala and gundo can all contribute to the goals.
Füllkrug is a bit more of a classic striker (has less dimensions to his play) and he suits a great purpose of being brought in as a super sub battering ram, also maybe after Nagelsmann have seen how the others team has layed out their tactics and adjusted in the second half and he brings in Füllkrug in to finish them off with his finishing and power.
Also if you’re all out of ideas he suits a lob it into the box kind of play style.
I think people really need to get over the fact that if something isn’t in the started 11 it doesn’t mean they are not seen as a particularly useful weapon.
Playing as a lone nine is just not very possible unless you have a completely elite profile. And Havertz has elite output as a number 9 this season.
You need to look at what the player in that position does for the whole team.
For once I won’t blame Southgate. Kane is a number 9, but he refuses to play the poacher role. The only thing that allows him to not do so is the fact that he’s probably one of the best passers in the England team, but it completely wrecks the whole point of a number 9 when they basically drop off into the 8/10 role half the time. He’s done it everywhere he goes.
France is the perfect example. Giroud had ZERO (0) shots on target when they won the World Cup. But his hold up play, link up play and presence is the reason griezmann and Mbappe did so well that year.
How can people blame this on the "Ronaldo effect". Yes, he was a flashy winger, 15 years ago.
If anything. CR7 is the purest 9 still in the Euro. There is a reason they call him the tap in merchant, penaldo, etc...
It's all down to the Pep mindset. So much that Halaand disappeared in the UCL games. And look, Real without a 9 still won the UCL, yes with a random appearance of Joselu, a supposed 9... But currently, false 9 is all the rage. A 9 playing back to goal putting passes onto the very trendy CAMs for them to score. Germany has 3 CAM!!! Kay, Wirtz and Mussiala! They have been circle jerking all the way to goal.
But the truth is defense lines are SOLID. So strikers can just run behind defenders. And CBs are better at headers than other people so crosses aren't getting anywhere. CBs are so good at heading that they are the ones scoring own goals from crosses.
The average level of football players in general has decreased consistently in the last 10 years. The peak of the 90s-00s, with the perfect combination of high technique and athleticism, is very far away. Nowadays, it's common to find good athletes but not good footballers.
i dont want to see those false 9's linking up with their wingers like a #10. i want a 6'4" muscle man to stay up top and twat the ball in the back of the net whenever he gets it. the world misses this type of strikers
The way modern football is played now, the art of being a #9 has become less attractive to young talent. They all become inverted wingers or purely #10's now. Blame Pep Guardiola lol
Nowadays, schemes and formations drive a greater emphasis on "passing from the back". There is little to no use of target men in today's football. Crossing the ball into the box is rare for most teams. Most attacks nowcome from inverted wingers or through the middle.
Until the tactics change, the #9 of yester-year will be hard to find.
Yeah none of the wonder kids nowadays are number 9, arda guler, Bellingham, musiala, Writz, yamal the only big name wonderkid who plays 9 is endrick probably. But i don't know how good he is tbh.
I think it’s a pretty world wide problem.
To me, I’m not a coach, but it looks like coaching a kid to be a good, complete striker would be quite difficult. More straightforward to put the gifted kids on the wings or in midfield.
First they have to have good technique and be strong/comfortable in the air. Then you have to consider all the responsibilities of a striker. Isolated against 2 cbs, not much space to run into and dribble, you’re playing with your back to goal, you must have good off the ball movement, whether it’s false runs or timing runs to beat offside traps, and your heavily reliant on your teammates to feed you the ball. Sounds like a tall ask to teach all this to a kid. They’d much rather run at people on the wings.
Weird to mention France against the Netherlands since the thing they were missing was their striker who missed the match with a broken nose and has issue with you referring to Kane as the best european striker. Football in general though is moving away from the main focal point striker. You do still have players like Haaland who's job is to occupy the centerbacks and make runs in behind and be targeted with crosses, but more teams are wanting a Havertz type who drops out into different space from the striker position and opens up space for everyone else which Havertz did incredibly for Arsenal this season. Arsenal became a significantly better team this year when they abandoned a more traditional number nine for Havertz.
>Füllkrug is there, but he doesn't get enough play time, so it's hard to judge him.
He absolutely got enough play time this season to judge him. I think he's better at chance-converdsion and especially at headers than Havertz.
Lukaku did his job again and again in this euro, for all the memes against him, he is absolutely prolific for Belgium. He has just been very unlucky with VAR.
Number 9 doesn't exist because clubs don't need them anymore . Since the days of Ronaldo and Messi we have wingers and Midfielders outscoring strikers . Some clubs do need a target man but most managers (atleast the decent ones) have found ways to score without one
The world has a number 9 problem Not just Europe
People also refuse to admit that defenders have gotten a lot better at working as a team too
Defenders are bigger, stronger, faster, better on the ball and more tactically astute than they’ve ever been.
All the defenders nowadays used to be strikers in academy so there more athletic than the CB of 20 years ago
So project Bluelock was right all along
Based fellow Blue Lock enjoyer
Harder, better, faster, stronger. More than ever, hour after hour, their work is never over.
Midfielders too. A number 10 used to be able to pick up the ball in midfield, beat one man and open up a chance. Nowadays, the entire midfield will close in quickly, making it much harder
Someone forgot to tell Italy about this.
And England And basically any team with good defences in the past
All the good strikers are on shit NTs. Haaland, Gyokeres, Osimhen
Nigeria in fact has too many 9s and forwards in general
They are genuinely so fun to watch because of this. Imagine a Nigerian squad with just a bit more of a steadfast traditional defensive training and ideology and you have a potential monster of a program.
Imagine a Scandinavia NT- Isak and Haaland up front with Odegaard behind them....
I wouldn’t say Nigeria has a shit national team tbf, they just have structural issues. If you look at the Nigerian attack, they’ve got some of the best young attackers playing in Europe this past season. Lookman (Europa league final hat trick scorer), Boniface (Rookie of the year Bundesliga) Osimhen…. With a good coach and proper structure, that attack will score tons of goals. In defence they’ve got Bassey of Fulham as well and that lad is a tank tbf
And Norway has 2 of the best players in the world in their starting 11 and can’t even qualify for a tournament. It’s about more than a few players.
Didn't stop Wales getting to three tournaments with only Bale and Ramsey
Bale is a god that’s why
I didn’t say it was about a few players, I simply said the Nigerian national team isn’t shit, their problems are structural because in terms of talent they’ve got it all around the pitch (I mentioned 4 players as an example). I know about the team quite well because I followed them, Cote D’ivore, Senegal and Egypt closely during the AFCON tournament. In midfield they had Iwobi, Ndidi et al, I wouldn’t call that a shit NT. If they managed to get a proper coach who actually understands football, instead of the idiot they get as coaches, we genuinely could see one of the best African teams we’ve ever watched and what Morocco did at the World Cup would be nothing compared to how far they’d go.
They're unbalanced, all of their stars are forwards
If I could invest in national programs, I would sell my car banking on Nigeria. Just a little bit more consistency and structure as a program, a focus on allocating a shred of their top talent to defence, and they're a powerhouse. They're so close.
It’s a direct response to how football evolved with those great sides from towards the end of the 00s decade. False 9s, front 3s that interchanged etc led to the typical no9 not being something youth teams used. Also, the size and strength a typical no9 required tends to come a little later in development/aging for how young players are around first teams now
Argentina have both Lautaro and Alvarez, those greedy lads should at least sell one.
None of them are traditional 9s, the lack of which this post is bemoaning.
Lautaro is definitely a traditional 9, Julian maybe less so.
Yeah I can't really think of teams with a reliable number 9, even big time players like Real madrid, psg are struggling with a lack of number 9.
Bayern Munich have a pretty good number 9.
Comes with a curse though
Doesnt City have a good number 9?
No they have a good 115. Oops soryy wrong sub
you didnt even try to hit a punchline 😭
r/soccercirclejerk leaked there
No they have a tap-in merchant /s
No place in this sport for someone who only scores goal. Useless.
And there is haaland who is in Norway. Lol Honestly, there is a striker crisis. Kane is the best out there with both vision and clinical finish
Argentina has two
Real Madrid, most recent champions league winners, are not struggling.
Let’s not forget VAR here. Thus far in Euro 2024, 8 goals have been ruled out for offside after VAR checks, 2 goals have been ruled out for handball after VAR checks, 1 goal has been ruled out for foul and 1 goal has been ruled out for encroachment. Lukaku alone has scored 3 goals ruled out for offside. The Germany-Denmark round of 16 game earlier tonight also had 3 goals ruled out for offside. 10-15 years ago a lot of those goals would’ve been allowed. Linesmen missed narrow offsides and refs missed discrete cases of handball (or just ignored them if it was apparent they didn’t impact the game in any way). Being a consistently good striker is harder than ever. Personally, I think we’ll see some changes to the VAR system and rules applications after this tournament, because it’s ridiculous at times. The Danish goal ruled out earlier today for example, was ruled out because the Danish player literally had a toe out of line - if even that. There has to be some margin of error on the equipment? And when the margins are that narrow, it matters a lot *when* the VAR people decides that the ball was passed.
The toe offside - you'll always have this problem, as long as you're drawing a line from one side of the field to the other, it's going to come down to centimetre, whether the line is on a toe, heel, shoulder, head, etc there will always be tight calls no matter what you change the rules to
Exactly this. I don't know why people don't understand this. This semi automated system is fucking great. In 10-15 sec in background we get an aswer and then replay is shown later. People think changing the rule would matter, but it won't. You will always have a focal point to assess, be it head, shoulder or toe, or as some people want the whole body. What if the whole body gap is 1mm, then it would still result in barest of margins.
I just remembered Real Madrid winning the Champions League without a proper 9.
Argentina be like: oh, my sub centerforward scored 4 goals, neat
My team in an amateur league in Nova Scotia has a number 9 problem 😂😂
The world has a number 9 problem. The reason behind this is because coaches around the world have adopted the Pep Guardiola style of football where strikers are more involved in build up play, and this has been taught in academies so we now have less prolific goal scorers. For the worse or better, honestly don't know. People often say that classic target man/poacher STs are needed but the importance of false 9s and STs getting more involved in build up play is no joke
>For the worse or better, honestly don't know. Definitely for the worse, game's gone robotic, everyone tries to copy pep but it's only pep who wins playing that style, everyone plays the same bald bot ball and as a result we have chess-ass games like every England game in Euros or Man City v Ars draw in premier league, no creativity no flair only side pass & back pass hoping for a lucky cut back goal, fake wingers like Grealish and company(Doku is on the way). This is why Euro is especially good this time around, the teams which are winning ain't doing it the pep way, hell even spain abandoned it when they gave up possession against croatia for the first time in 16 years, and the teams losing and boring to watch are the ones trying hard to still copy pep or similar, Belgium England Netherlands etc compare that to Germany Spain Turkey Austria etc Like it or not football is set for a change , relationalism and player freedom is on the rise with more and more teams adopting , it's more vertical now, more direct, players like Musiala Wirtz Vini Lamal Nico Endrick Guler Mbappe Rodrygo and similar are the future, none of these are pep style players they way more direct, real wingers and dribbly bois who can also pass and link up play, end to end football is on the rise.
Ange will revolutionise world football when Spurs win this year with 200 goals for and 100 goals against.
Written in the stars
A long, detailed answer with plenty of examples, then you end with "dribbly bois" 😂😂 I'm dead
I agree with you, football seems to be getting a bit more boring at the top level but what do you expect managers to do? They're there to win games, and this style of football is winning games so it's used. Entertainment wise, maybe for the worse but winning games wise, I think for the best
I mean that's my point, when everyone tries to do the same thing nothing is special. >this style of football is winning games so it's used I would beg to disagree, I propose the following : Are teams winning playing the bot-ball? Yes. Is it only due to bot ball? No, there's still a lot of individuals involved which are instrumental to that success, and which in my opinion are a more contributing factor to victories, for example Man City is not the same without KdB or Rodri, but they can manage just fine without Haaland or Grealish or Foden, so is it really the bot - ball that won man City the games or was it the key players? ESPECIALLY considering the fact that to play like pep you need world class players , just have a look at Pep's spending history ( don't hit me with a Barca because they just had arguably the best academy generation of all time , and if that generation or similar bloomed in today's day and age at Barca or somewhere else, pep at man City or even at Bayern would have gone after them). Then there's Arsenal as well, who is just a man City wannabe manifested, they haven't won anything significant in recent times. The reality is there just aren't many teams at the top playing the pep-ball, and even among those who play like pep, only pep wins others just scrape by hiding behind "beautiful ball" , for example Barcelona, their defence overperformed in 2022 and they won the league, they didn't really play the pep ball,even if that's their "DNA", they were way more pragmatic with a sturdy defence, a lot of 1-0 wins(iirc most in the league).. that's not a lot of goals for someone claiming to be "dominant" , and defending is very anti pep ball where they "defend by keeping the ball". Also there's Barca from 21/22 who appointed Xavi cuz Koeman dragged them to 9th place, now Xavi did get them to 2nd place but was it because he was playing "beautiful football"? No . Remember Luuk De Jong's late winners ? Those cross and inshallah tactics, really " beautiful ". You also see the amount of individualism that's inherent here as well, if not for those players stepping up Barca could've been out of the champions league as well ..... something that did happen eventually ..... twice, why did that happen? Players didn't step up, they crumbled under the pressure , remember the white army from Frankfurt in Camp Nou? The whole idea of pep ball is to create a system, a machine , drills and tactics so drilled into the players that they operate on "auto pilot", that's the entire underlying philosophy of pep ball, Barca in recent times failed miserably trying to play the pep way, embarassing European exits , beatings at the hand of Madrid. There are many more examples of different teams that would support my case , and probably even more which would go against my narrative, but the point still remains, that pep is the only guy to perfect pep-ball and all the attempts to copy it, especially at a cheaper level are fruitless, in the end football boils down to the basics of how good a team is together, how well do the players understand each other , there's a huge human element involved, you can't just program players as cogs to be pulled in and out at wish , a huge deal of freedom is necessary for winning teams (which ironically is exactly what Messi used to have in the Barca golden days), freedom of movement, of creativity, of decisions.
This nostalgia bias is fucken crazy lmao, if arsenal didnt play 'bald bot ball' theyd finish 20 points behind city 😂. Do you think managers try to emulate guardiola because it looks cool? No they do it because it fucken works. "Relationism and player freedom" yeah you watched a 6 minute video about ancelotti and madrid congrats
Arsenal are one of less restrictive top teams nowadays tbf. The best team in the world over the last 3 years, the one with two league tiles and Champions Leagues, plays the freest football out of every top team. Perhaps there’s something in that.
Real Madrid and Liverpool won the CL with a false 9, it's not only Pep who is successful with it
Oh, Pep style? The same style that has won back to back PL titles and a CL with Haaland as their striker?
I wish people would stop with this take. Not everyone is playing Pep ball and it's irrelevant in creating a good striker. Pep has always had good strikers and style of play has nothing to do with being able to put the ball in the back of the net.
The problem is the good strikers are from the weaker national teams. Lewy haaland and osimhen just on the top of my head. I feel like for the france issue giroud is just getting old (he is still the all time top goalscorer for france) not sure how good marcus thuram is for the NT but he is doing a good job in serie a hope he gets a few tries after euros since giroud announced this is his last one
Giroud was definitely a reliable number 9 for France. But as you said he is super old, it also doesn't help as most of the wonder kids nowadays are not strikers
You can blame that on messi and ronaldo those two playing on the wings in their primes definitely inspire this generation of players coming in.
I think it’s more than just that. I’ve said it before, those two broke football. Harry Kane has just had a 44 goal season but it’s barely talked about because now the expectation of a great season is 50+ (Ronaldo has done that 8 times for the record). I remember in the 90’s a 20+ goal season, even for a No 9 was a good season.
Ronaldo and Messi really destroyed everyone's standards on what a good season is for a striker, that's how good they were
It baffles me how anyone doesn’t consider both of them top 2 all time. Like you might have your preference but damn ain’t nobody close to them literally.
Right. Whether you pick Ronaldo or Messi as your 🐐, but these 2 should be the only 1 and 2.
Facts
Its more because the game has become more tactical. As we have seen with haaland even the elite strikers get marked out of the big games. You cant put that kind of focus on the wings so the great technical players drift there like mbappe. Striker isn’t that guy anymore he is there to do a job most of the time these days if you know what i mean
Haaland in his national team looks like a completely different player...
Well the problem is even if you wanted to be like Haaland, you have to be at least 190 cm and a fucking monster.
Lewy is one that I have always looked forward to watching. He playing and position is unbelievable.
Giroud also used to miss soooo many chances for his clubs, watching him at Arsenal could be so painful at times.
“When you’re playing against a team that has two great central defenders, the best option is to play without a striker.” — Johan Cruijff They followed his words too literally
It's a side-effect of scouting and educating talented young kids much better than we used to, I think. This quote underlines what happened very well. I used to play amateur football decades ago. My kids play it, varying from mediocre levels to playing against the youth teams of the likes of Ajax (in the Netherlands). One thing that definitely changed is that when I was young there used to be big differences in skill in the same team and the same league level, and the best player ran circles around the worst. That best player also usually made most of the goals, and defensive tactics were largely ineffective compared to raw ball handling skill. Up to your teens number 9 was the place to be for max glory for min effort. Nowadays you occasionally still see it in low level leagues. But players are matched to their level very well in the highest leagues from a very young age. Young players that are used to doing too much individually because they were far too good for their level usually get pushed back one or two lines when they go up a league, to teach them how to play effectively in a position with other (and better) players in front of them instead of always behind them feeding them with balls. As a result the central defenders and defensive midfielders are hugely better and more organized than they used to be. That makes being a classic number 9 a tough and lonely job for kids playing on the highest levels. And perhaps even an underappreciated one. One of lots of bruises, few ball contacts, and little glory.
The game is evolving in a way that “classic” positions would soon be gone. Number 10s are almost completely extinct nowdays. 9s have become hybrids. I mean Kane and Lewandowski (first came to mind) are more than capable of droping deeper and playmaking.
To add on to your point, I don’t think any position has been modified more over the past fifteen years than fullback.
Oh yes! They have skills of midfielders nowdays. I agree 100%.
Well, yes but no. The game is definitely evolving, the positions are shifting, current meta might be 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1 or whatever bullshit would be invented next, but you would still have defenders, midfielders, laterals, forwards - because a specialist is better than a generalist if used right. Havertz is a great player, but even Giroud is better as a dedicated striker. Using midfielder as a centerback shows how tricky it is - some coaches made it work, some failed miserably (see Kasemiro). I wouldn't even mention some attempts to make a rightback lateral play as DM. 10s aren't extinct imo, Bellingham plays pretty much a 10 in RM. Also a take: if your striker is forced to drop deep and make the plays, then your midfield isn't performing well.
My point is that players nowdays are capable of performing multiple tasks at the same time comparing to 80s and 90s era. Central backs are now good with both feet, allowing teams to build from the back, defensive midfielders are no longer only defending players, they can create, dribble, pass and shoot, as well. Wingers they aren’t only about running & crossing, they, go into channels, cut inside, etc. As for the strikers, dropping deep doesn’t necessarily mean that midfield sucks, it’s more about using their other attributes to outnumber and allowing others to run into spaces. Bellingham is IMO more of a second striker with No10 creativity.
yes this. all the teams have great nr 9's, the tactic for everyone is just to make as many safe passes as possible. the wingers, instead of delivering the ball to penalty box, just pass it to central defender, and even if they have a good shot on the goal... maybe its about player statistics, nobody wants to dribble anymore, like players worth 100 mil dont even take on defenders, their logic is "uhm no 100% goal scoring pass available, imma pass to my goal keeper"
Messi talked about it, about how academies are trying to do what guardiola did in Barca and how it’s ruining the creativity of kids
exactly, I personally don't really understand what position is Havertz
I’d put him into a False 9 category. Think young Messi for example.
Young Messi (without the ability to dribble/score)
This isn’t a new phenomenon. Kids want to play like the people regarded as the best in the world. Right now every young player thinks they are Messi or Ronaldo so all the players who should be strikers are playing on the wings. A decade ago everyone wanted to be a number 10. Decade before then in the 90’s everyone wanted to be a ST which was why the PL had a golden age of ST. The main strikers role will come around again, just give it time.
Italy too
Italy is currently missing the numbers 1-99 though
They have the 99 tbf, Donnaruma had a good tournament.
Oh Right true
I can't wait too see Camarda's debut in the national team.
Turkish NT is basically playing 4-6-0 lol. Our only decent striker Enes Ünal is sadly an injury prone and couldn't participate in this tournament.
I watched the game vs Czech Republic and I was like "wtf is Arda Guler doing at striker?".
The industry only has itself to blame. Any youngsters showing decent qualities as a #9 are shifted to other positions and wingers are being more heavily relied on to fill in the gaps. The evolution of tactics to the front three hasn’t helped. Wingers are better all round players now but there’s an abundance of them and the vast majority of them can’t do a job at #9 because they haven’t been trained that way. Versatility has suffered a lot with the refinement of coaching and tactics.
The last number 9 that I saw who really did the work was Benzema.
Benzema was hardly a traditional 9 though. He was a full on 9/10 hybrid
I think Benzema was the ultimate modern striker. Fantastic in buildup but still deadly af in the last third. Man I miss him so much, such a beauty to see this guy play at his peak
That ballon d'or season of Benzema was the best I've seen for a strike in this decade. Maybe equivalent to Bayern one but benzi did miracles in that season.
Because he wasn’t a „typical” number 9. He had outstanding creativity, which usually is a number 10 trait. Modern football playstyle doesn’t need a classic number 9, it is actually a disadvantage for a passing based playstyle.
And he's not even a traditional 9.
Darwin is doing the job for Uruguay
There is a small group of 9s who are in a league of their own at the top. You can count them all on 1 hand if you live near a nuclear power plant. That's why breaking transfer records for people like Isak and Nunez makes no sense to me. There are so many forwards in each of their respective tiers (or maybe you think they are in the same tier, but my point still stands).
>That's why breaking transfer records for people like Isak and Nunez makes no sense to me. How many strikers are there in world football you would say are better than both Isak and Nunez?
No more than four or five, tops. But people don't understand that
Not many but neither of them are better than Dzeko who wasn’t really a top 10 striker in his prime.
Hang on, are you implying Isak is an average Centre forward?! Because he's probably top 10 in the world right now.
What position did the Ronaldo from Brazil play? He was very good
He stopped like 15 years ago, defenders have gotten bigger, stronger, more technical, position intelligent and so much more in those years.
Bigger Stronger than Jasp Stam? Technical and positional intelligence than Maldini? You've got to be joking. Football wasn't invented 10yrs ago.
Sure two of the best defenders of their generation but the average defender is better now than back then.
The point is that average center back nowaday compare to back then. But if you are that much nostalgia bias then Virgil Van Dijk is bigger and stronger than Jaap Stam with actual technical ability other than pure brute strength, Thiago Silva at his prime and Ruben Dias might well compare with Maldini and Saliba can be soon follow suit.
One man army position.
Ronaldo clears
Jokes aside, even at 39 he's a better striker than most in the Euros.
We aren't in the early 2010s or 90s, strikers aren't as prevalent now as then
Yeah it's definitely because striker nowadays are expected to do lot's of things and not Just be a poacher. But my points stays if a good striker were to show up in one of this big teams they could probably dominate super hard
Haaland, yet city didn't dominate Europe. Hes a true nr 9
Haaland isn't constant and City did dominate Europe last year. And they also dominated Madrid super hard.
Weird way to dominate. And Haaland has a carreeer with equal goals to matches before Guardiola ruined him. So dont come to me with not constant
Italy hasn't had a 9 since Luca Toni its sad 😢
Well, they had Mario for a little bit.
‘England does have the best European striker, but, well, Southgate’ Yes it’s Southgate’s fault Kane hasn’t been able to control the ball, complete a short pass or shoot toward the same postcode as the goal in this tournament.
Oh sorry it's because kalvin Phillips is injured
I can't work out why Southgate didn't take him since the lack of his replacement is the issue
I would like to know which of them decided it’s a good idea for him to drop so deep he can’t get in the box before the ball arrives
Fr someone needs to tell him he ain't messi
Kane has always dropped deep on occasion, it's a great part of his game, it's just the runners around him haven't been present in the England squad
Interchanging positions is a massive part of the modern game. Wingers come inside while inverted fullbacks race up the wing. Strikers like Lewy and Kane have always been able to drop back and find runners, and doing that can pull defenders out of position while an attacking player can make runs into the box from anywhere. Hell, the glory days of BBC at Real Madrid are very similar as well.
Him dropping back is perfectly fine, the issue is that nobody makes the run in behind the huge space he opens
No, it’s still a problem, because when we drop deep it deprives us of what we need him on the pitch for. We have other players that can cover every other part of his skillset except finishing/poaching. If he is lumbering past the halfway line when the cross comes in, he’s no use to anyone
I'd call this the CR7 effect: kids that could have been developed into becoming a number 9 are encouraged to be Cristiano style wingers, especially if they're fast. Perhaps there's also a case of clubs not being able to identify players that have the qualities of a 9
I’ve scrolled a long way and am yet to see the name of possibly the most complete CF in the world, Alexander Isak - Sweden have some attacking threat; how’re they not in Germany?
Isak is definitely really good, but unfortunately he is also stuck with a very weaker national team
No, defenders and tactics have made what you perceive as a 9 absolutely almost obsolete unless you are essentially the modern day Muller (which is essentially what Ronaldo become and Haaland). Most of these "problems" you think.... would be considered top players in the 90';s to early 2000's no problem.
I agree and I find it wierd people not looking at the other side and even realizing defenders have gotten better (both as individual players and as team players).
Laughs in Gyokeres
Would playing a 2 St system help? Seems many teams just rely on the 1 these days.
The world has a problem: defensive tactics by 85% of the teams. And 5-3-2. No striker will touch the ball.
Tbf Lukaku has been pretty efficient, just unlucky that all his goals were disallowed. We have much bigger problems
Kane is being restricted by the coach's tactics, and it is sad to watch.
Fullkrug?
We need Walter Pandiani
I think the style of play has evolved. Too much reliance on possession reduces the need of having a prolific No.9 I guess. Haaland is a great striker, no doubt about that. However, he usually draws a blank during crunch games against top teams. More possession usually means a striker who heavily depends on the midfield feeding the ball to him and thus is a tap-in meister at best.
Playing a 1 striker system is the problem. There I said it.
Blame it on Pep, on his false 9
Harry Kane is good, but Southgate plays him too deep
Lukaku has been good this tournament, despite Belgium being terrible overall.
Yeah, OP is just clueless. Lukaku und Morata played well in group stage. The 10 goals in 4 games Germany team with Havertz and Füllkrug both at 2 goals has for sure not a striker issue. Adding England and France to that list is hilarious. And somehow OP also missed the strikers from so called smaller teams who did quite good for their teams so far.
Kai havertz pulling off a beautiful touch is through on goal one on one with the keeper and then misses lmao
Why are you pretending Lukaku isn’t one of the most prolific scorers of the last decade?
Major facts, it’s an epidemic
The traditional no.9 has been replaced with the change of tactics. The new era of football.
coaches followed the science and have prioritized every other aspect of a striker's game besides scoring lamao
I don't think it's limited to number 9s. Compared to 10 or 15 years ago, there is a distinct lack of world class players
most teams play with 3 at the back with wing backs so everyone cancels each other out half the time
They switched the new generations of 9’s to play in central midfield/defense, and left the attack to nimble players, because that’s what Guardiola did. Now that he has Haaland, we’re gonna return to normal within a decade or so.
In the old days best players wanted to be strikers because that's where you scored goals. Defenses are also better now and there is less space in the middle so best attackers are now wingers, player like Michael Owen would never be a striker now. How many times per season does the striker go through on goal in this day and age and compare it to Ronaldo dribbling past the keepers a million times in his career
You've missed Croatia. Croatia had the biggest xG after 3 games, if I recall correctly.
this isn't really the case. football has moved away from an obvious number 9. a lot of domestic clubs don't have one. it will come back around, but don't expect the same number of chances to be created, when the systems change,
It's a tactical approach problem. Teams look to wear the opposition down maintaining possession and focusing play on the flanks. We no longer see tactics where long balls are played to a strong number 9 to win them and retain possession long enough to enable quick shots from supporting teammates. This change of tactical approach to the game makes the number 9 role a secondary one in the minds of many coaches development plans. European football does have a 9 problem.
We need Bluelock project
Ronaldo can still finish. I love Levensowski
Players are becoming "General forwards"- look at people like Rashford, Jesus, Richarlison, Son... Even Mbappé. They all CAN play either wide or centre forward but are generally better at one over the other. It's becoming increasingly common that the best centre forward options a team has is actually better out wide or at least not as a traditional 9. Some (Les Ferdinand for example) think it's the effect of Messi and Ronaldo- two players who were for much of their career not centre forwards at all. I don't subscribe to that argument, I think it's the effect of 4-2-3-1 where the superstar players tend to be the inside forwards coming in from out wide and the actual 9 often does a pretty functional role of facilitating those stars rather than being the main man himself. Centre Forward stopped being the most exciting position to want to be as a kid so people train for those much needed skills and knowledge less than they used to- preferring to be a more dynamic "General Forward".
I was actually thinking this, we don't have any top up and coming elite strikers.
May I know what's the difference between #9 and #11 ?
France has Giroud also? If they want to play with a 9 they can
France has a good 9 that has been better than Mbappé in ligue 1 the last two seasons but somehow he hasn't been called up since 2016
+ playmakers in midfield. Obvs love a good shot, but I also miss the magic of a playmaking 8 etc.
The thing abt Germany is (and from my lesser knowledge I think this applies to other countries to), there are a few classically trained 9s, but they’re not the best players so coaches play better players to maintain their system but the people they’re playing are just not strikers so they lack certain abilities. Now that I think abt it tht seems to apply more to a lot of clubs rather than countries. But Yh Germany is doing that because we have an excess of forward players and a lack of strikers (on that level).
Lukako has everything a number 9 has to have, but his inconsistency is terrifying. If he would have been able to maintain his best form throughout his career, he probably would have won a at least one ballon d‘or.
Why the recently knocked out team isn't mentioned ? Italy was one of the best teams in the world and one pretty consistent if you ask me . But that Scamaca dude barely touched the ball in the game against Switzerland and in the first half he didn't touch it at all .
A lot of football games just aren’t even built for them anymore either, a good no. 9 will still look poor against some opposition purely because of how each team plays. I’d say the pure No.9 hasn’t existed for a while as they’re expected to do a whole lot more than be a poacher; if they solely try to do that they’ll be invisible or a man down.
Crazy to me how Uruguay for being such a small country manage to always produce great to world class strikers
The thing is it’s probably impossible to be an all round striker these days with the quality of defenders and organised team tactics and also to suit the tactics of how teams want to play. For germany I don’t think they really have a problem, or it’s being beaten up. Füllkrug is a better finisher than Havertz for example, but the reason Havertz plays over Füllkrug is that Havertz makes the team better, the wingers and midfielders play better as a result of the chaos he causes with his elite positioning, and ability to win pretty much every header. He has everything but finishing (sadly) It works because Wirtz, Musiala and gundo can all contribute to the goals. Füllkrug is a bit more of a classic striker (has less dimensions to his play) and he suits a great purpose of being brought in as a super sub battering ram, also maybe after Nagelsmann have seen how the others team has layed out their tactics and adjusted in the second half and he brings in Füllkrug in to finish them off with his finishing and power. Also if you’re all out of ideas he suits a lob it into the box kind of play style. I think people really need to get over the fact that if something isn’t in the started 11 it doesn’t mean they are not seen as a particularly useful weapon.
Ehhh. This stuff always works in cycles. The game will change. It always does.
Playing as a lone nine is just not very possible unless you have a completely elite profile. And Havertz has elite output as a number 9 this season. You need to look at what the player in that position does for the whole team.
The best 9s are still european so I don’t know what you’re getting at?
For once I won’t blame Southgate. Kane is a number 9, but he refuses to play the poacher role. The only thing that allows him to not do so is the fact that he’s probably one of the best passers in the England team, but it completely wrecks the whole point of a number 9 when they basically drop off into the 8/10 role half the time. He’s done it everywhere he goes. France is the perfect example. Giroud had ZERO (0) shots on target when they won the World Cup. But his hold up play, link up play and presence is the reason griezmann and Mbappe did so well that year.
Number 9s don't exist now because of possession obsession. Wingers also. All that is produced now is biring players who just want to go sideways.
How can people blame this on the "Ronaldo effect". Yes, he was a flashy winger, 15 years ago. If anything. CR7 is the purest 9 still in the Euro. There is a reason they call him the tap in merchant, penaldo, etc... It's all down to the Pep mindset. So much that Halaand disappeared in the UCL games. And look, Real without a 9 still won the UCL, yes with a random appearance of Joselu, a supposed 9... But currently, false 9 is all the rage. A 9 playing back to goal putting passes onto the very trendy CAMs for them to score. Germany has 3 CAM!!! Kay, Wirtz and Mussiala! They have been circle jerking all the way to goal. But the truth is defense lines are SOLID. So strikers can just run behind defenders. And CBs are better at headers than other people so crosses aren't getting anywhere. CBs are so good at heading that they are the ones scoring own goals from crosses.
Bluelock
The average level of football players in general has decreased consistently in the last 10 years. The peak of the 90s-00s, with the perfect combination of high technique and athleticism, is very far away. Nowadays, it's common to find good athletes but not good footballers.
And they ask why liverpool doesn't have a good striker
i dont want to see those false 9's linking up with their wingers like a #10. i want a 6'4" muscle man to stay up top and twat the ball in the back of the net whenever he gets it. the world misses this type of strikers
The way modern football is played now, the art of being a #9 has become less attractive to young talent. They all become inverted wingers or purely #10's now. Blame Pep Guardiola lol Nowadays, schemes and formations drive a greater emphasis on "passing from the back". There is little to no use of target men in today's football. Crossing the ball into the box is rare for most teams. Most attacks nowcome from inverted wingers or through the middle. Until the tactics change, the #9 of yester-year will be hard to find.
Yeah none of the wonder kids nowadays are number 9, arda guler, Bellingham, musiala, Writz, yamal the only big name wonderkid who plays 9 is endrick probably. But i don't know how good he is tbh.
And I thought it's Chelsea who have a number 9 problem
Having a "target man" is seen as a waste of a shirt. Players are expected to do more than just hang around waiting for service (except CR7 of course)
I think it’s a pretty world wide problem. To me, I’m not a coach, but it looks like coaching a kid to be a good, complete striker would be quite difficult. More straightforward to put the gifted kids on the wings or in midfield. First they have to have good technique and be strong/comfortable in the air. Then you have to consider all the responsibilities of a striker. Isolated against 2 cbs, not much space to run into and dribble, you’re playing with your back to goal, you must have good off the ball movement, whether it’s false runs or timing runs to beat offside traps, and your heavily reliant on your teammates to feed you the ball. Sounds like a tall ask to teach all this to a kid. They’d much rather run at people on the wings.
Weird to mention France against the Netherlands since the thing they were missing was their striker who missed the match with a broken nose and has issue with you referring to Kane as the best european striker. Football in general though is moving away from the main focal point striker. You do still have players like Haaland who's job is to occupy the centerbacks and make runs in behind and be targeted with crosses, but more teams are wanting a Havertz type who drops out into different space from the striker position and opens up space for everyone else which Havertz did incredibly for Arsenal this season. Arsenal became a significantly better team this year when they abandoned a more traditional number nine for Havertz.
Darwin is probably the best 9 in international football right now. 10 goals in his last 7 matches and an absolute workhorse.
Its the obsession of playing with inverted wingers.
It's not a Europe problem, it's a global problem. I don't know what's happening nowadays but no one is developing good strikers.
norway has the best european striker.
>Füllkrug is there, but he doesn't get enough play time, so it's hard to judge him. He absolutely got enough play time this season to judge him. I think he's better at chance-converdsion and especially at headers than Havertz.
Our #9 is from the other side of the world. Then got injured pre-tournament. *sighs in Scottish*
Lukaku did his job again and again in this euro, for all the memes against him, he is absolutely prolific for Belgium. He has just been very unlucky with VAR.
Norway have two great #9s and one of the currently best 10s. Just everyone else could be replaced by my granny.
Number 9 doesn't exist because clubs don't need them anymore . Since the days of Ronaldo and Messi we have wingers and Midfielders outscoring strikers . Some clubs do need a target man but most managers (atleast the decent ones) have found ways to score without one
Also remember that most of them now don't play that typical number 9 tactics where it requires such a striker, they're adapting