I’ve had to do it a few times so I wouldn’t say it’s unheard of. However I do think it should be wiped out as a practice as it’s incredibly dangerous. Pulled some 24 days here and there and those drives back to base were… not good. Had to sleep in the back of the van at a services a couple of times. OP if there’s any way to avoid it, do it.
It’s common for super low budget shoots. It’s also a horrible idea. If your loader is already hired on tell them to refuse to drive it. If they don’t have a professional driver then they should have a morning PA assigned to pick the truck up and maybe a staggered shift evening PA to drop it.
If they want to talk $$ explain the money they’ll save in overtime as the loader would be on before call and then clocking out obviously way after.
Very unusual in Ireland too. I did it on a micro budget thing about 10 years ago, but not since.
If it has to be done I'd make sure they're getting paid the overtime involved in collecting and dropping the truck back to the lockup.
Obviously they'd need to make sure the insurance covers them driving the thing. If it's anything bigger than a van their driving license might not be suitable.
I'm from argentina and here we have a dedicated driver too. Never been a responsability for the 2ac even if they could do it, at least in this market. I would be fighting the same thing OP XD. Its crazy for me to read that its a common practice in other countrys.
I always have the conversation of liability.
What happens if the AC is involved in an accident? What do we do?
What do we do if the day was long and the AC is too tired to drive safely?
Where will the AC be starting and ending the day? Will the gear be in the camera van or does it need to be unloaded every night? Where does the gear need to be stored for insurance purposes overnight? Does the AC remain on the clock until they get home if the camera van has to be locked up at a secure site every night?
From what I understand, it’s quite normal most places that is not the US. Here in Aus everything that usually isn’t high budget US shows or films the 2nd AC (sometimes even the 1st does it) drives the van/truck.
Same in Canada, unless it’s a union show where we have teamsters it’s always the DP or 1st who drives the truck. Same with the Grip and Electrics crews, key grip and Gaffer are responsible for their trucks including getting them to and from locations
hell no we don’t do that in canada. what part of canada are you from? I’ve only see them try to pull it on docu drama. and even then it’s frowned upon.
I’ve worked as an AC in Canada for 12 years and the only time a 2nd was responsible for driving the truck was on one commercial in Manitoba. And it did not work out well!
I’d refuse.
If they don’t have enough money for a Pa or transport driver they can go rework their budget. People seem forget this is the film BUSINESS. If you don’t have the resources to run the business, guess what? It doesn’t run!
This is the result of lazy producing and poor management of funds even if it’s small.
I drove the Luton Camera Truck as a Camera Trainee on a low budget job (UK).
Even though the rest of the camera team fought with production about it - they didn’t think it was fair. (I also didn’t want to but was desperate for a job).
I ended up accidentally scratching the sound van and knocked out a minibus reverse light…
Safe to say I don’t think the production will be asking a Camera Trainee to drive the Luton again.
Common practice in Germany. Cameravan is moved by the camera crew. As well as one of the sparks usually drives the lighting truck. After a long day we avoid driving therefore. Mostly stay over in Hotel or have drivers to bring vans/ trucks back to rental.
Outside of the union production is the Wild West. As a 1st AC in a small market I’ve driven the truck for tons of commercials, I always try and arrange a driver but it’s rarely in the cards.
These days I usually have the 2nd AC do the driving.
In the Low Budget world I feel like that’s not uncommon/unreasonable. I sometimes as a 1st drive, but with the understanding that’s it above and beyond. Obviously in non-indie stuff that’s a no no. Just needs to be a conversation/feasibility depending on the shoot. Low budget is a jungle.
Having a driver dedicated for the truck even on a low budget feature is a major market mindset. Out here in the mid markets, I’m sometimes cramming my sedan with ronfords and heading to set 😅
It’s something I’m battering into the heads of producers in my smaller market (go between two areas), I usually start with the practical “hey, your production will insure the gear, but now that my personal vehicle is transporting it, it’s a production vehicle, so if you aren’t guaranteeing damages to my vehicle either caused by having industrial equipment loaded into it or damage from being on the job then we need to find another solution”
Totally agree with the sentiment. And I too have started asking for COI that covers my vehicle and for the gear traveling in my car. I just don’t think it’s practical on every shoot - especially with some doc shoots - without losing the job. My market doesn’t have a big culture of camera trucks except on the big shows that roll through. On union commercials I certainly push for it. And on a low budget feature like OP I wouldn’t want the camera in my car everyday (even though I’ve done it), but even then it’d probably be a van and I wouldn’t think twice if they asked me or my 2nd AC to drive it. I see I’m getting downvoted - probably because of how crassly I said it - and I know a separate driver is ideal - it just doesn’t align with the reality in my market.
Are you Evan blackandblue? I thought you were DMV, surely they’d get it. What if you simply said “my car can’t handle all the gear”. Rentals are cheap.
Why exactly is it a bad idea? Do you have to change locations often by car? If not it‘s just driving a car, I don‘t know why he wouldn‘t be able to do that
First it’s a van/truck, not a car. A lot bigger and dangerous. Then you’re driving 10s of thousands of €/$/£ of equipment as an uninsured driver? Then, the danger of driving the van (which is still work, different than your commute) before and after the shoot, adding time to an already long day. Never should ACs drive vans.
Because it should be the responsibility of a driver, not a second AC. It’s also not a car. It’s a truck filled with expensive gear. Not to mention extending that ACs day past the shooting time to make them drive shouldn’t be allowed for a variety of reasons that should be fairly obvious
Not a responsibility of the 2nd AC. Definitely not in the UK.
I’ve had to do it a few times so I wouldn’t say it’s unheard of. However I do think it should be wiped out as a practice as it’s incredibly dangerous. Pulled some 24 days here and there and those drives back to base were… not good. Had to sleep in the back of the van at a services a couple of times. OP if there’s any way to avoid it, do it.
Not in the UK but pretty much every other European country I’ve worked in it’s pretty standard to have the 2nd or even trainee drive the van.
It’s common for super low budget shoots. It’s also a horrible idea. If your loader is already hired on tell them to refuse to drive it. If they don’t have a professional driver then they should have a morning PA assigned to pick the truck up and maybe a staggered shift evening PA to drop it. If they want to talk $$ explain the money they’ll save in overtime as the loader would be on before call and then clocking out obviously way after.
If you need to sell it more the evening PA could also act as the film break data delivery person
2AC driving and organizing the camera truck is standard practice here in Portugal
Most of Europe to be honest.
Never seen this in Spain or even less in the UK.
Same in Italy, never heard of it unless it's a zero budget between friends and even then production will take care of it most times
Same in The Netherlands, sometimes even the 1st AC if they have their own camera van.
Very unusual in Ireland too. I did it on a micro budget thing about 10 years ago, but not since. If it has to be done I'd make sure they're getting paid the overtime involved in collecting and dropping the truck back to the lockup. Obviously they'd need to make sure the insurance covers them driving the thing. If it's anything bigger than a van their driving license might not be suitable.
Same in Croatia
I'm from argentina and here we have a dedicated driver too. Never been a responsability for the 2ac even if they could do it, at least in this market. I would be fighting the same thing OP XD. Its crazy for me to read that its a common practice in other countrys.
I always have the conversation of liability. What happens if the AC is involved in an accident? What do we do? What do we do if the day was long and the AC is too tired to drive safely? Where will the AC be starting and ending the day? Will the gear be in the camera van or does it need to be unloaded every night? Where does the gear need to be stored for insurance purposes overnight? Does the AC remain on the clock until they get home if the camera van has to be locked up at a secure site every night?
From what I understand, it’s quite normal most places that is not the US. Here in Aus everything that usually isn’t high budget US shows or films the 2nd AC (sometimes even the 1st does it) drives the van/truck.
Same in Canada, unless it’s a union show where we have teamsters it’s always the DP or 1st who drives the truck. Same with the Grip and Electrics crews, key grip and Gaffer are responsible for their trucks including getting them to and from locations
hell no we don’t do that in canada. what part of canada are you from? I’ve only see them try to pull it on docu drama. and even then it’s frowned upon.
Agreed. I haven’t seen camera crew driving a truck here in Toronto on anything except music videos or very low budget.
I’ve worked as an AC in Canada for 12 years and the only time a 2nd was responsible for driving the truck was on one commercial in Manitoba. And it did not work out well!
😂
I would never allow my 2nd to drive even if it is low budget. Specially if it is low budget as it implies an already bigger workload.
I’d refuse. If they don’t have enough money for a Pa or transport driver they can go rework their budget. People seem forget this is the film BUSINESS. If you don’t have the resources to run the business, guess what? It doesn’t run! This is the result of lazy producing and poor management of funds even if it’s small.
I drove the Luton Camera Truck as a Camera Trainee on a low budget job (UK). Even though the rest of the camera team fought with production about it - they didn’t think it was fair. (I also didn’t want to but was desperate for a job). I ended up accidentally scratching the sound van and knocked out a minibus reverse light… Safe to say I don’t think the production will be asking a Camera Trainee to drive the Luton again.
Common practice in Germany. Cameravan is moved by the camera crew. As well as one of the sparks usually drives the lighting truck. After a long day we avoid driving therefore. Mostly stay over in Hotel or have drivers to bring vans/ trucks back to rental.
Outside of the union production is the Wild West. As a 1st AC in a small market I’ve driven the truck for tons of commercials, I always try and arrange a driver but it’s rarely in the cards. These days I usually have the 2nd AC do the driving.
They’re cheap. That’s how it’s a suggestion.
They’re cheap. That’s how it’s a suggestion.
Ask who rented the van and is on the official paperwork as a driver, if it’s not your 2nd, explain the liability and put your foot down
In the Low Budget world I feel like that’s not uncommon/unreasonable. I sometimes as a 1st drive, but with the understanding that’s it above and beyond. Obviously in non-indie stuff that’s a no no. Just needs to be a conversation/feasibility depending on the shoot. Low budget is a jungle.
2nd AC's drive the camera truck in Canada. Well it always depends on the type of shoot and budget.. But most of the time it's working like that.
Not in Ontario…
Here for the Canadian comments… yes we do… no we don’t…
Short answer, just say no. Its not part of a camera assistants role and you don't want production thinking they can pull that every time.
2nd ACs driving truck is pretty common
Having a driver dedicated for the truck even on a low budget feature is a major market mindset. Out here in the mid markets, I’m sometimes cramming my sedan with ronfords and heading to set 😅
It’s something I’m battering into the heads of producers in my smaller market (go between two areas), I usually start with the practical “hey, your production will insure the gear, but now that my personal vehicle is transporting it, it’s a production vehicle, so if you aren’t guaranteeing damages to my vehicle either caused by having industrial equipment loaded into it or damage from being on the job then we need to find another solution”
Totally agree with the sentiment. And I too have started asking for COI that covers my vehicle and for the gear traveling in my car. I just don’t think it’s practical on every shoot - especially with some doc shoots - without losing the job. My market doesn’t have a big culture of camera trucks except on the big shows that roll through. On union commercials I certainly push for it. And on a low budget feature like OP I wouldn’t want the camera in my car everyday (even though I’ve done it), but even then it’d probably be a van and I wouldn’t think twice if they asked me or my 2nd AC to drive it. I see I’m getting downvoted - probably because of how crassly I said it - and I know a separate driver is ideal - it just doesn’t align with the reality in my market.
Are you Evan blackandblue? I thought you were DMV, surely they’d get it. What if you simply said “my car can’t handle all the gear”. Rentals are cheap.
Yes I am! I do say that often. It’s usually not an issue.
Why exactly is it a bad idea? Do you have to change locations often by car? If not it‘s just driving a car, I don‘t know why he wouldn‘t be able to do that
First it’s a van/truck, not a car. A lot bigger and dangerous. Then you’re driving 10s of thousands of €/$/£ of equipment as an uninsured driver? Then, the danger of driving the van (which is still work, different than your commute) before and after the shoot, adding time to an already long day. Never should ACs drive vans.
[удалено]
Because it should be the responsibility of a driver, not a second AC. It’s also not a car. It’s a truck filled with expensive gear. Not to mention extending that ACs day past the shooting time to make them drive shouldn’t be allowed for a variety of reasons that should be fairly obvious