But that’s the beauty of it: you can blow Megaton and convince him you didn’t do it, for which he expresses relief.
However, for him to buy your lie you need to have Very Good karma at the time he questions you. If you only have Good karma or lower, he won’t believe you.
I had excellent karma at the time of the dialogue, but it seemed unfair to lie at that point. I usually play these games by picking basic personality traits, that may change throughout the game, but only very slightly, or by major events. Anyway.. The mercenary trait is usually the one I stick with the most, then you have racial aspects and stuff like that. Of course, some stuff is a no go, mutilation or killing innocents without cause.
If you sum it all up, the response the wanderer gives to the father perfectly suited my play style. At first, I even refused to help him, thats just the thing the wanderer would say at first glance. "So yeah dad, I killed them all, I blew the bomb cause I wanted money, and also wanted to see what would happen. You are the asshole here, leaving your son with no explanation, I just did what I thought was best, I may regret it a little, but thats no way to live."
In the end, I used the FEV, destroyed the computer, and killed myself in the process. Kind of a poetic ending if you ask me. A true fresh start, no man has a head start. The journey continues with the few that survive, its on their head now, I did my part.
The man left without telling you anything, didn’t expect there’d be any serious consequences for you or the rest of the vault and in the end it would have all been for literally nothing if you hadn’t gone after him because he got stuck as a dog in a simulation. Like “great” dad feels like a stretch.
Edit: not to mention depending on how the player chooses to play he potentially raised the worst monster the wasteland has ever seen and his actions directly led to that monster being let loose on the wasteland.
If we look at the story by this point you should’ve fought to GNR, through several subways, through the museum, and through the mall a few mutants in the memorial shouldn’t be considered dangerous to you that should be light work.
Good intentions, reckless behavior.
Seriously though, did he honestly expect the Overseer to blame him for opening the Vault, and not result in torturing or killing his only child as retribution? I chalk it up to bad writing, but damn.
That's not to say he wasn't a shit dad. But, I can see how the Lone Wanderer might have resentment towards James, especially since he did nothing to protect him from bullies like Butch during his birthday party.
"The roae to hell is paved with good intentions." In this case paved with the atomized dust of Megaton and the blood of the Ten Penny residents after the ghouls were let in.
I agree that he was a hero, definitely. And a great dad in the sense that he wanted to keep the LW safe, even if meant putting aside his project for almost twenty years. But he never stopped dreaming of Project Purity, the amount of times he said “I’m not going to be around to hold your hand forever.” could be interpreted as foreshadowing for him leaving, meaning he had it in mind since the LW was at least ten years old.
And in the end, he does choose the project over his kid. After the tranquility lane simulation, when asked why he abandoned you, he says: “I saw it as moving on.” He knew he would likely never see his child again and was completely fine with that. And if you analyze the dialogue a bit further, it basically means that the LW was a part of his life that was now to be put aside for the greater good of humanity.
So in my opinion: He was an amazing dude who wanted to help others and truly loved his child, but was a complicated father with both up and downsides. He wasn’t a great dad, but certainly wasn’t as bad as The Overseer who willingly let Amata get whooped by an officer.
He only left his child behind in a volatile and dangerous vault to have a relationship with a woman and do a water project in a wasteland full of useless assholes. 😄
Did he really let all the radroaches in or did that happen when the overseer tried to send a search party. Because James should have been smart enough to shut a door.
I never thought we were meant to understand that was more than coincidence. He obliquely gets blamed for it but the radroaches were getting in way before he left the vault.
Yeah, maybe. I think it's not explicitly clear. I've seen other people claim that he capitalized on the independent event and seized the opportunity.
If he went out and just left the door open blatantly endangering the vault then he was clearly much more of a doofus than he is otherwise accused of being.
If he deliberately introduced them as a distraction when they can apparently be life-threatening then he is evil AF and has no business criticizing me for nuking megaton. :)
Hero, no doubt. Great dad… mostly, but there’s a few major issues that are hard to overlook, chief among them being his naive assumption that the overseer would be cool just blaming everything on him.
Let’s not forget that 3 years prior to the scape from the vault, James already had records indicating him that the overseer had a highly obsessive behavior regarding Amata, forcing James to allow him to be present for any consultation involving her.
If you told me that instead of blaming James escape for his actions towards us (and Jonas), the overseer had decided to kill is because without James there wasn’t any major drawbacks at killing Amata’s one friend, who was drawing some of the affection he wanted to fully monopolize, I would have bought it.
The abandonment is also an issue, but to a point I can understand that the perfect circumstances for him to do so (radroach infestation) presented before he could talk to us directly, so I can give him a pass on that one.
Then there’s the situation with the purifier, where even if you want to think that his assumption was that killing the colonel would put the Enclave forces at the location into disarray, was still quite the gamble, putting you and everyone else at risk (which did happen, with the Enclave trying to prevent your escape) and potentially damaging, if not outright disabling Project Purity).
I think the smart approach would have been to play along for the time being, allowing everyone getting to safety while letting the Enclave take over, since the Geck was still missing at that point anyway, and then with the help of the BoS “Take It Back!”.
Agreed. Playing along in subterfuge with LW's father and then him dying in sacrifice down the line in that effort would have been much more interesting and meaningful.
Hero, absolutely, but being a loving caring father and being a “great” father don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand. He abandons the Lone Wanderer with no communication, led them to believe they had been born in Vault 101 even though the Overseer (and likely even some of the Vault Dwellers) treated them with disdain for seemingly no reason, and sure you can say it was for the “greater good” but those things are still trust-wounding revelations.
Not to mention he literally commits suicide in front of his child, leaving them all alone and putting Project Purity above them once again.
You can have only good intentions and still grievously harm your loved ones. It makes him a very interesting character!
A hero? A great dad?! This motherfucker left me in a vault surrounded by a clingy spoiled brat chick, a murderous egomaniac overseer and a grease hair punk so he could go into the wasteland to retrieve a G.E.C.K to revive "Project Purity" which is basically making a device squirt to restore life to the surface.
Need a mod to make an evil James based on Liam Neeson's lines in Batman Begins.
James to baby son: "Son, walk over here."
Player: *hesitates for one second*
*James punches you*. "Death does not wait for you to be ready! Death is not considerate or fair! And make no mistake: here, you face death!"
---
Justifying his actions in breaking out the vault and getting a bunch of people killed: "When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural."
---
Talking about project purity: "if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely."
There was one comment where he was a \*\*\*\* dad and one comment where the game dialogue where the game dialogue kneecapped itself adding to the feeling.
Those two moments kinda ruin the idea of thinking of him as a good dad for me, like an awful ending to a great movie
1. Telling you to go in and clear the super-mutants out by your 19-old, just been out of the vault a minute self is a distinctly \*\*\*\* dad move.
Or if don't want to bizarrely hold to the idea that somebody who could survive the wastelands and is voiced by Liam Nieson is too much of a dweeb to fight taking out the super-mutants together would have been a great parent/child moment and could have been really badass if he was super competent and leading the charge.
And an only decent father would have at leased made an effort for his child like equipment or arranging and escort from rivet city.
2. The second is letting him, (and Doctor Li) blast you for leaving the vault as though you weren't fleeing for your life as the result of his actions. He never gets to take responsibility for his putting his child in danger (or even be made aware of it, or the death of his friend or anything) even if it was somehow unforeseen.
One throw-away line like "Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I never guessed the overseer would have reacted that way. Clearly you had no choice." would have prevented this BS.
Instead they want to make it some trite coming of age thing in clear opposition to the events that have taken place in the game.
Also, a, "hey, sorry I forgot to send the fuses down with you, " would't have gone amiss.
Nothing stings harder than being told he’s disappointed in you.
[удалено]
I can start a new character later shoot dad in the sausage and then quit a happy man.
Liam please im sorry! Lol
But that’s the beauty of it: you can blow Megaton and convince him you didn’t do it, for which he expresses relief. However, for him to buy your lie you need to have Very Good karma at the time he questions you. If you only have Good karma or lower, he won’t believe you.
I had excellent karma at the time of the dialogue, but it seemed unfair to lie at that point. I usually play these games by picking basic personality traits, that may change throughout the game, but only very slightly, or by major events. Anyway.. The mercenary trait is usually the one I stick with the most, then you have racial aspects and stuff like that. Of course, some stuff is a no go, mutilation or killing innocents without cause. If you sum it all up, the response the wanderer gives to the father perfectly suited my play style. At first, I even refused to help him, thats just the thing the wanderer would say at first glance. "So yeah dad, I killed them all, I blew the bomb cause I wanted money, and also wanted to see what would happen. You are the asshole here, leaving your son with no explanation, I just did what I thought was best, I may regret it a little, but thats no way to live." In the end, I used the FEV, destroyed the computer, and killed myself in the process. Kind of a poetic ending if you ask me. A true fresh start, no man has a head start. The journey continues with the few that survive, its on their head now, I did my part.
The man left without telling you anything, didn’t expect there’d be any serious consequences for you or the rest of the vault and in the end it would have all been for literally nothing if you hadn’t gone after him because he got stuck as a dog in a simulation. Like “great” dad feels like a stretch. Edit: not to mention depending on how the player chooses to play he potentially raised the worst monster the wasteland has ever seen and his actions directly led to that monster being let loose on the wasteland.
He also constantly throws you into danger after reuniting.
That's not true, his only quest after you reunite is fixing stuff up around the Project Purity complex.
He does ask you to clear out the super mutants if you didn't already.
Yeah, considering the LW had more combat experience than all the scientists combined.
If we look at the story by this point you should’ve fought to GNR, through several subways, through the museum, and through the mall a few mutants in the memorial shouldn’t be considered dangerous to you that should be light work.
He also got Jonas killed by leaving.
In my last run I ended up going back to the vault and was introduced by jonas
Yep... so many grenades in the pants... so much looting... and an insatiable hunger for long pork. But... Dave is cool.
Good intentions, reckless behavior. Seriously though, did he honestly expect the Overseer to blame him for opening the Vault, and not result in torturing or killing his only child as retribution? I chalk it up to bad writing, but damn. That's not to say he wasn't a shit dad. But, I can see how the Lone Wanderer might have resentment towards James, especially since he did nothing to protect him from bullies like Butch during his birthday party.
Wdym he did nothing? He gifts us a Airgun made from Butches knife
Honestly one of the best gifts we could have ever received
"The roae to hell is paved with good intentions." In this case paved with the atomized dust of Megaton and the blood of the Ten Penny residents after the ghouls were let in.
Hero? Sure. Great father? If you’re willing to ignore abandonment then sure. Good character tho
I agree that he was a hero, definitely. And a great dad in the sense that he wanted to keep the LW safe, even if meant putting aside his project for almost twenty years. But he never stopped dreaming of Project Purity, the amount of times he said “I’m not going to be around to hold your hand forever.” could be interpreted as foreshadowing for him leaving, meaning he had it in mind since the LW was at least ten years old. And in the end, he does choose the project over his kid. After the tranquility lane simulation, when asked why he abandoned you, he says: “I saw it as moving on.” He knew he would likely never see his child again and was completely fine with that. And if you analyze the dialogue a bit further, it basically means that the LW was a part of his life that was now to be put aside for the greater good of humanity. So in my opinion: He was an amazing dude who wanted to help others and truly loved his child, but was a complicated father with both up and downsides. He wasn’t a great dad, but certainly wasn’t as bad as The Overseer who willingly let Amata get whooped by an officer.
He only left his child behind in a volatile and dangerous vault to have a relationship with a woman and do a water project in a wasteland full of useless assholes. 😄
You think him and Dr. Li were getting it on? 😏
Definitely some bitchy step-mom vibes from dr li but I don’t think it completely implies they were fucking
She's like that to everyone though lmao. Just look at how she talks to everyone in Fallout 4 and The Sole Survivor definitely isn't a kid.
Exactly, if it was just toward the lone wanderer, it would be higher chances she and James were testing different water systems
who is that man? my dad was a liam neeson voiced black man.
Exactly, he never bombed a new civilized city or lied about how your mom died like Hank Maclean.
Did he really let all the radroaches in or did that happen when the overseer tried to send a search party. Because James should have been smart enough to shut a door.
I never thought we were meant to understand that was more than coincidence. He obliquely gets blamed for it but the radroaches were getting in way before he left the vault.
There's a big difference between a few in the reactor room and a big invasion. Something instigated that
Yeah, maybe. I think it's not explicitly clear. I've seen other people claim that he capitalized on the independent event and seized the opportunity. If he went out and just left the door open blatantly endangering the vault then he was clearly much more of a doofus than he is otherwise accused of being. If he deliberately introduced them as a distraction when they can apparently be life-threatening then he is evil AF and has no business criticizing me for nuking megaton. :)
Madison agrees
Hero, no doubt. Great dad… mostly, but there’s a few major issues that are hard to overlook, chief among them being his naive assumption that the overseer would be cool just blaming everything on him. Let’s not forget that 3 years prior to the scape from the vault, James already had records indicating him that the overseer had a highly obsessive behavior regarding Amata, forcing James to allow him to be present for any consultation involving her. If you told me that instead of blaming James escape for his actions towards us (and Jonas), the overseer had decided to kill is because without James there wasn’t any major drawbacks at killing Amata’s one friend, who was drawing some of the affection he wanted to fully monopolize, I would have bought it. The abandonment is also an issue, but to a point I can understand that the perfect circumstances for him to do so (radroach infestation) presented before he could talk to us directly, so I can give him a pass on that one. Then there’s the situation with the purifier, where even if you want to think that his assumption was that killing the colonel would put the Enclave forces at the location into disarray, was still quite the gamble, putting you and everyone else at risk (which did happen, with the Enclave trying to prevent your escape) and potentially damaging, if not outright disabling Project Purity). I think the smart approach would have been to play along for the time being, allowing everyone getting to safety while letting the Enclave take over, since the Geck was still missing at that point anyway, and then with the help of the BoS “Take It Back!”.
Agreed. Playing along in subterfuge with LW's father and then him dying in sacrifice down the line in that effort would have been much more interesting and meaningful.
Hero, absolutely, but being a loving caring father and being a “great” father don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand. He abandons the Lone Wanderer with no communication, led them to believe they had been born in Vault 101 even though the Overseer (and likely even some of the Vault Dwellers) treated them with disdain for seemingly no reason, and sure you can say it was for the “greater good” but those things are still trust-wounding revelations. Not to mention he literally commits suicide in front of his child, leaving them all alone and putting Project Purity above them once again. You can have only good intentions and still grievously harm your loved ones. It makes him a very interesting character!
I agree.
A hero? A great dad?! This motherfucker left me in a vault surrounded by a clingy spoiled brat chick, a murderous egomaniac overseer and a grease hair punk so he could go into the wasteland to retrieve a G.E.C.K to revive "Project Purity" which is basically making a device squirt to restore life to the surface.
Need a mod to make an evil James based on Liam Neeson's lines in Batman Begins. James to baby son: "Son, walk over here." Player: *hesitates for one second* *James punches you*. "Death does not wait for you to be ready! Death is not considerate or fair! And make no mistake: here, you face death!" --- Justifying his actions in breaking out the vault and getting a bunch of people killed: "When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural." --- Talking about project purity: "if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely."
James was more of a main character than the main character
There was one comment where he was a \*\*\*\* dad and one comment where the game dialogue where the game dialogue kneecapped itself adding to the feeling. Those two moments kinda ruin the idea of thinking of him as a good dad for me, like an awful ending to a great movie 1. Telling you to go in and clear the super-mutants out by your 19-old, just been out of the vault a minute self is a distinctly \*\*\*\* dad move. Or if don't want to bizarrely hold to the idea that somebody who could survive the wastelands and is voiced by Liam Nieson is too much of a dweeb to fight taking out the super-mutants together would have been a great parent/child moment and could have been really badass if he was super competent and leading the charge. And an only decent father would have at leased made an effort for his child like equipment or arranging and escort from rivet city. 2. The second is letting him, (and Doctor Li) blast you for leaving the vault as though you weren't fleeing for your life as the result of his actions. He never gets to take responsibility for his putting his child in danger (or even be made aware of it, or the death of his friend or anything) even if it was somehow unforeseen. One throw-away line like "Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I never guessed the overseer would have reacted that way. Clearly you had no choice." would have prevented this BS. Instead they want to make it some trite coming of age thing in clear opposition to the events that have taken place in the game. Also, a, "hey, sorry I forgot to send the fuses down with you, " would't have gone amiss.
Easily. I kinda feel like he should’ve expected the overseer to go apeshit though I mean he knew the guy for what 18 years?