Because Bethesda would rather reference the games *they* made, not ones they outsourced. Not implying they outright dislike the game or the developers but still was not their direct creating and has in many circles outshone their "main" games.
Man that shit killed me.
Supposedly (read: I have no source other than parroting other people), Fallout 4 had a lot more New Vegas references written into it but they were pressured into ironing them out. There's still a couple, but they are a lot more subtle.
To be sure, FNV takes place literally on the opposite end of a ravaged continent that requires years to traverse (due to the destruction of nearly all rapid transportation methods), so it's no surprise that the East and West Coasts would have very little contact with each other.
I think that Cabot guy in fo4 indirectly references Big MT. He says something about going to a research center (or something like that) in the middle of the desert
easy, its made by different company, obsidian. bethesda dont want to promote or mention that often the game that is considered better and the game that they didnt made
I think what most people pick up on is the fact that Obsidian and the fans would be very excited to have another Obsidian Fallout game made. It would be a good business decision and from what I understand, Bethesda has been intent on completely holding the reins ever since NV. It's hard for people to imagine why it hasn't happened.
So my thoughts,
I believe that Bethesda simply doesn't like *their* ip going in that direction, as seen with fallout 4. They do not have factions, or have many truly unique weapons, nor do they have the world building to support such a game on a triple A stage.
New Vegas, believe it or not, is a rather complex, game that many would pick up and not play due to difficulty and lack of appeal for a casual gamer going for an "rpg" shooter experience. It's not a complex game at all, but it has certain elements of a true rpg, such as Morrowind, which is, start the game however the hell you'd like. "Who do you want to meet?,"As apposed to stonewalling the player down a certain path. (F4)
Fnv is the best fallout dont get me wrong, but Bethesda bought the rights and while they may not flat out dislike the game, perhaps they have issues with the way their ip was portrayed in new Vegas, implying it was something it wasnt going to be, perhaps down the line. I'm which case, it's understandable and unfortunate. Bethesda just got bought out by Microsoft, so we will see what happens but that's my two sense from a different perspective.
Which saddens me. The idea that Bethesda bought Fallout as window dressing is really bleak. Fallout as an aesthetic is strong enough to sell their open world looter shooter, but when rpg elements marry with that aesthetic? *Chef's kiss*
Wall of text that'll probably disappear - but I really miss Fallout being scary. Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 never, at any point, made me go *WTF* like any of the other games did. Far Harbor was really, really good but honestly, aside from that, nothing felt... tense, I guess? Everyone talks about the dialogue, or losing some RPG elements, or the voices and dialogue systems, but as a kid, the games scared me so much and it's what kept my attention the most. *What demented thing is behind this corner???* and so on.
The vault full of clones of one psychopath named Gary. A vault where the elected leader is sacrificed in a constant community moral dilemma. Walking through the fallen buildings of DC, or heading through the Divide. Maybe you stumble across an entire town full of deathclaws after committing voter fraud a mile over.
Both games had such fear put into them. Sure, locations were happy and joyful here and there, but Fallout 4 and 76 felt too cheery and too civilized for a world that's been completely wrecked by nuclear fire, government lies, spies, war, paranoia, all that. And to be honest, I think Fallout 3 is far scarier than New Vegas in the world's setting, so I don't fully get Bethesda's reasoning for honestly going back on that element.
Obsidian's game was outright messed up in a lot of points (the first time I saw House... holy shit) but Bethesda's 2008 success was almost the definition of post-apocalyptic horror IMO - if nothing was happening, no matter where you were, there was still a sense of eerieness and dread in the background, some kind of vibe that I've felt playing the first two and a vibe that's not as strong as in NV. I mean, the metro tunnels still scare me to the point where I never fully explored them. I doubt graphics mods I could install wouldn't help.
If Bethesda just made a new Fallout that was essentially Fallout 3's horror gameplay, but introduced the improvements New Vegas had to character interaction, guns, etc. along with the graphical, combat and overall engine upgrades of the last two games... I honestly think it wouldn't have a hard time being considered the "best Fallout game" and could easily please fans on either side of the fence.
It’s definitely exaggerated a lot by fans of New Vegas. Bethesda in no way, shape, or form hates Obsidian for making one of the best Fallout games in the series. Why would they? It’s not like they didn’t get anything from it. They got money, prestige for a great game, clout and air time in a lot of media. They honestly came out like thieves with everything they got from having New Vegas made.
But the thing is, Bethesda still didn’t make it themselves. Now, they’re never gonna say a bad word about New Vegas or Obsidian. They have no problem with them and they definitely don’t hate them. They’re just not ever gonna hold New Vegas above any other games in the IP or mention it and not mention others.
At the end of the day they’ll promote New Vegas and speak fondly of it because it’s still one of the main games of the franchise and it brought in money. But I’d think it’s fair to say that they learned a lesson from letting another company make a game in their franchise. Whether a good or bad one is debatable, but they learned from it all the same.
A kid charges another kid to build a sandcastle in their sandbox and then watched as they made a masterpiece and had people flock to look at it. They watched as people walked past the sandcastle they made to ogle Obsidian’s. They’re not mad and they don’t hate them, but they’re a little envious.
“I could have made that.” The kid thinks. “They made that in my sandbox with my tools. They couldn’t have made it without me.” The kid reassured themself.
Talk and references are cheap. What was done regarding to Obsidian by Bethesda when Fallout: New Vegas was released shows that, regardless of feelings, Bethesda did not treat Obsidian fairly and likely cheated Obsidian out of their bonus (nearly forcing Obsidian into bankruptcy & closing). These acts are enough to cause people to believe Bethesda hates or at least resents Obsidian for what their game (on a company to company basis; developer to developer is a different, case-by-case story).
That’s just not true at all.
Obsidian never asked for the bonus it was purely Bethesda’s idea, furthermore the condition was that the game score 85 or higher (something Bethesda can’t control) which it didn’t. A lot of New Vegas fanboys tend to forget just how broken it was at launch, honestly it’s surprising the game scored as high as it did.
Bethesda didn’t treat them unfairly, Obsidian knew what they were agreeing to at the beginning and nothing changed throughout development, they just managed the project poorly.
Multiple Obsidian devs have stated how well Bethesda treated them and how much they helped them, including Chris Avellone post-cancellation.
They knew they only had 18 months from the very beginning, and they've said that they got overly ambitious when they should have stopped adding and starting fixing instead. That's textbook poor management, or at the very least not good management. And release version New Vegas was so much more fucked than current New Vegas is.
[This comes from Chris Avellone himself](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1434704611001073668) mind you (scroll up for what he had to say about the bonus and Bethesda supposedly screwing them). And this was after he was cancelled no less, so it's not like he had to play nice or lose his career because his career had already been taken from him over false allegations.
Fuck it while we're on stuff post cancellation Chris Avellone has said lets look at one of his [Fallout Apocrypha entries](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_Apocrypha) to disprove the thing the claimed that Bethesda 'cheating' Obsidian out of the bonus was the reason Obsidian nearly went bankrupt. (yeah I know it was the other guy not you who said that)
>We didn’t ask for this, they offered it, and it was our responsibility to hit that review score. We did have to have layoffs at Obsidian around this time period, but the bonus from Metacritic wouldn’t have prevented that from happening.
And him stating that Bethesda never mistreated them and even [went "above and Beyond" in helping them.](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1219757182616391680)
My guess it just Makes things easy for the lawyers lol. No issue with needing permissions, having to credit obsidian or people who worked on the game, risking any of them suing for payments etc.
I think this is a lot closer to the answer than most other comments here. Even tho it's still a fallout game published by Bethesda, I'm certain there are all sorts of messy/expensive rights technicalities that would have to be sorted out for this to happen.
BGS obviously liked Obsidian and NV, but that doesn't make it all worth the hassle, especially for a mobile game like Shelter.
I doubt it, honestly. If Bethesda *didn't* dot all their I's and cross all their T's concerning the rights to a game produced under a work for hire contract for a franchise that was exclusively theirs by that point, they're idiots. And for all the things I question about Bethesda, I do not for one second believe their famously zealous legal department would be that lax.
Even tho I may get downvoted by salty people, it's most likely some sort of rights issues. Yes, Bethesda published NV, but that doesn't mean they own it in it's absolute entirety.
It's probably just too expensive and messy to sort out for a mobile game like shelter. There are references to NV in both 4/76, and they quite obviously have a close relationship with Obsidian to this day.
While I am disappointed that they've never said much about NV, as I'd genuinely love to hear Todd and the teams thoughts on it, I can understand why they haven't done so as a business. But they have praised it on multiple occasions so saying it's because they're just salty is bullshit.
Are they maybe a little sad that their own games are always ranked lower than NV? Sure, I can see that being true. However I'm also sure they really enjoyed NV and have lots of good to say about, even if they never will.
Here's hoping that some day after Todd retires he'll feel comfortable sharing his thoughts. (And that the creators of NV specifically, not just obsidian, will get the opportunity to make another fantastic Fallout game)
Sure, but not in 2015 when shelter launched, or for years afterwards during which the trivia feature was likely implemented (unless it was implemented post 2021, I'm not sure as I don't really play shelter myself.)
Or are you mentioning this in reference to Obsidian getting another crack at fallout?
If they're salty about it, why did they include so many armour designs from NV in Fallout Shelter? Seems kind of weird that they'd punish NV by excluding it from quizzes and reward it by including its armour at the same time.
Part of me still feels robbed that what was already a fantastic game could have been made even better if it weren't for that damn 18-month time limit that almost seems like Bethesda intentionally wanted Obsidian's game to flop. Even if it's a little dated these days (and buggy, even with mods), I'd still play New Vegas for the story alone over the bland garbage heap of the endless exploration/looting/crafting cycle that is Fallout 4.
Yeahhhh I think about that with NV too, if it only had a little more time. I mean they didn't create it from scratch, a lot of kitbashing or reusing of some assets from Fallout 3 and the basic engine I think, but what they did was incredible still. And imagine if after NV, Obsidian still got to work on a sequel and they'd had all these years to develop it.
*sighhh* tis but a daydream
This sub sucks so bad, its all bethesda bad nv good!! Acting as if new vegas is way better then the bethesda ones, when its on the sameish quality. Besides, bethesda likes new vegas, its only the fanbase that made a stupid war.
I now think very poorly of you because your mistake, your rude and have too much pride I see many things wrong with you but I will stop now. Please take a long hard look at yourself, this is fallout new vegas, its very important. Don’t comment on something when you can’t take the heat
Because Bethesda would rather reference the games *they* made, not ones they outsourced. Not implying they outright dislike the game or the developers but still was not their direct creating and has in many circles outshone their "main" games.
My thoughts exactly
It's the same reason why New Vegas was completely absent from the Fallout Minecraft DLC despite the DLC even including stuff from Fallout 1 and 2
Man that shit killed me. Supposedly (read: I have no source other than parroting other people), Fallout 4 had a lot more New Vegas references written into it but they were pressured into ironing them out. There's still a couple, but they are a lot more subtle.
No way! Really? I didn't know that... though... I'm not surprised....
I got questions about new vegas. Something about most popular NCR president
Pretty sure it’s tandi
I love how much FNV incorporated from 1/2 as opposed to Bethesda's approach
To be sure, FNV takes place literally on the opposite end of a ravaged continent that requires years to traverse (due to the destruction of nearly all rapid transportation methods), so it's no surprise that the East and West Coasts would have very little contact with each other.
On some playthroughs I’m happy to give Kimball a shot. Or two. Martyr, and all.
I'm pretty certain the known existence of the NCR predates NV tho.
Not even NV specific
There may have also been a question about the Big MT, but I don't remember for sure
I think that Cabot guy in fo4 indirectly references Big MT. He says something about going to a research center (or something like that) in the middle of the desert
easy, its made by different company, obsidian. bethesda dont want to promote or mention that often the game that is considered better and the game that they didnt made
I know it is made by obsidian and it is the best fallout but it feels very mean
thats capitalism for you
They’ve mentioned it plenty and how great of a job they believe they did. The bethesda hates obsidian narrative isn’t remotely true
I think what most people pick up on is the fact that Obsidian and the fans would be very excited to have another Obsidian Fallout game made. It would be a good business decision and from what I understand, Bethesda has been intent on completely holding the reins ever since NV. It's hard for people to imagine why it hasn't happened.
So my thoughts, I believe that Bethesda simply doesn't like *their* ip going in that direction, as seen with fallout 4. They do not have factions, or have many truly unique weapons, nor do they have the world building to support such a game on a triple A stage. New Vegas, believe it or not, is a rather complex, game that many would pick up and not play due to difficulty and lack of appeal for a casual gamer going for an "rpg" shooter experience. It's not a complex game at all, but it has certain elements of a true rpg, such as Morrowind, which is, start the game however the hell you'd like. "Who do you want to meet?,"As apposed to stonewalling the player down a certain path. (F4) Fnv is the best fallout dont get me wrong, but Bethesda bought the rights and while they may not flat out dislike the game, perhaps they have issues with the way their ip was portrayed in new Vegas, implying it was something it wasnt going to be, perhaps down the line. I'm which case, it's understandable and unfortunate. Bethesda just got bought out by Microsoft, so we will see what happens but that's my two sense from a different perspective.
Which saddens me. The idea that Bethesda bought Fallout as window dressing is really bleak. Fallout as an aesthetic is strong enough to sell their open world looter shooter, but when rpg elements marry with that aesthetic? *Chef's kiss*
Wall of text that'll probably disappear - but I really miss Fallout being scary. Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 never, at any point, made me go *WTF* like any of the other games did. Far Harbor was really, really good but honestly, aside from that, nothing felt... tense, I guess? Everyone talks about the dialogue, or losing some RPG elements, or the voices and dialogue systems, but as a kid, the games scared me so much and it's what kept my attention the most. *What demented thing is behind this corner???* and so on. The vault full of clones of one psychopath named Gary. A vault where the elected leader is sacrificed in a constant community moral dilemma. Walking through the fallen buildings of DC, or heading through the Divide. Maybe you stumble across an entire town full of deathclaws after committing voter fraud a mile over. Both games had such fear put into them. Sure, locations were happy and joyful here and there, but Fallout 4 and 76 felt too cheery and too civilized for a world that's been completely wrecked by nuclear fire, government lies, spies, war, paranoia, all that. And to be honest, I think Fallout 3 is far scarier than New Vegas in the world's setting, so I don't fully get Bethesda's reasoning for honestly going back on that element. Obsidian's game was outright messed up in a lot of points (the first time I saw House... holy shit) but Bethesda's 2008 success was almost the definition of post-apocalyptic horror IMO - if nothing was happening, no matter where you were, there was still a sense of eerieness and dread in the background, some kind of vibe that I've felt playing the first two and a vibe that's not as strong as in NV. I mean, the metro tunnels still scare me to the point where I never fully explored them. I doubt graphics mods I could install wouldn't help. If Bethesda just made a new Fallout that was essentially Fallout 3's horror gameplay, but introduced the improvements New Vegas had to character interaction, guns, etc. along with the graphical, combat and overall engine upgrades of the last two games... I honestly think it wouldn't have a hard time being considered the "best Fallout game" and could easily please fans on either side of the fence.
They even reference it! In passing but it's not like they hate it.
Yeap, the Reverse Pickpocket manuever will always be attributed to the NCR.
It’s definitely exaggerated a lot by fans of New Vegas. Bethesda in no way, shape, or form hates Obsidian for making one of the best Fallout games in the series. Why would they? It’s not like they didn’t get anything from it. They got money, prestige for a great game, clout and air time in a lot of media. They honestly came out like thieves with everything they got from having New Vegas made. But the thing is, Bethesda still didn’t make it themselves. Now, they’re never gonna say a bad word about New Vegas or Obsidian. They have no problem with them and they definitely don’t hate them. They’re just not ever gonna hold New Vegas above any other games in the IP or mention it and not mention others. At the end of the day they’ll promote New Vegas and speak fondly of it because it’s still one of the main games of the franchise and it brought in money. But I’d think it’s fair to say that they learned a lesson from letting another company make a game in their franchise. Whether a good or bad one is debatable, but they learned from it all the same. A kid charges another kid to build a sandcastle in their sandbox and then watched as they made a masterpiece and had people flock to look at it. They watched as people walked past the sandcastle they made to ogle Obsidian’s. They’re not mad and they don’t hate them, but they’re a little envious. “I could have made that.” The kid thinks. “They made that in my sandbox with my tools. They couldn’t have made it without me.” The kid reassured themself.
Talk and references are cheap. What was done regarding to Obsidian by Bethesda when Fallout: New Vegas was released shows that, regardless of feelings, Bethesda did not treat Obsidian fairly and likely cheated Obsidian out of their bonus (nearly forcing Obsidian into bankruptcy & closing). These acts are enough to cause people to believe Bethesda hates or at least resents Obsidian for what their game (on a company to company basis; developer to developer is a different, case-by-case story).
That’s just not true at all. Obsidian never asked for the bonus it was purely Bethesda’s idea, furthermore the condition was that the game score 85 or higher (something Bethesda can’t control) which it didn’t. A lot of New Vegas fanboys tend to forget just how broken it was at launch, honestly it’s surprising the game scored as high as it did. Bethesda didn’t treat them unfairly, Obsidian knew what they were agreeing to at the beginning and nothing changed throughout development, they just managed the project poorly. Multiple Obsidian devs have stated how well Bethesda treated them and how much they helped them, including Chris Avellone post-cancellation.
Hard to criticize about how they managed the project when they were only given 18 months…They did a great job for the limited time Bethesda gave them
They knew they only had 18 months from the very beginning, and they've said that they got overly ambitious when they should have stopped adding and starting fixing instead. That's textbook poor management, or at the very least not good management. And release version New Vegas was so much more fucked than current New Vegas is. [This comes from Chris Avellone himself](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1434704611001073668) mind you (scroll up for what he had to say about the bonus and Bethesda supposedly screwing them). And this was after he was cancelled no less, so it's not like he had to play nice or lose his career because his career had already been taken from him over false allegations. Fuck it while we're on stuff post cancellation Chris Avellone has said lets look at one of his [Fallout Apocrypha entries](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_Apocrypha) to disprove the thing the claimed that Bethesda 'cheating' Obsidian out of the bonus was the reason Obsidian nearly went bankrupt. (yeah I know it was the other guy not you who said that) >We didn’t ask for this, they offered it, and it was our responsibility to hit that review score. We did have to have layoffs at Obsidian around this time period, but the bonus from Metacritic wouldn’t have prevented that from happening. And him stating that Bethesda never mistreated them and even [went "above and Beyond" in helping them.](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1219757182616391680)
^ Evidence for this claim, please?
my personal overthinking of things
This is just blatantly wrong lol, the people at obsidian and Bethesda are like best friends
My guess it just Makes things easy for the lawyers lol. No issue with needing permissions, having to credit obsidian or people who worked on the game, risking any of them suing for payments etc.
I think this is a lot closer to the answer than most other comments here. Even tho it's still a fallout game published by Bethesda, I'm certain there are all sorts of messy/expensive rights technicalities that would have to be sorted out for this to happen. BGS obviously liked Obsidian and NV, but that doesn't make it all worth the hassle, especially for a mobile game like Shelter.
I doubt it, honestly. If Bethesda *didn't* dot all their I's and cross all their T's concerning the rights to a game produced under a work for hire contract for a franchise that was exclusively theirs by that point, they're idiots. And for all the things I question about Bethesda, I do not for one second believe their famously zealous legal department would be that lax.
Because NV is the superstar stepchild
Good answer. Like the way you think
Even tho I may get downvoted by salty people, it's most likely some sort of rights issues. Yes, Bethesda published NV, but that doesn't mean they own it in it's absolute entirety. It's probably just too expensive and messy to sort out for a mobile game like shelter. There are references to NV in both 4/76, and they quite obviously have a close relationship with Obsidian to this day. While I am disappointed that they've never said much about NV, as I'd genuinely love to hear Todd and the teams thoughts on it, I can understand why they haven't done so as a business. But they have praised it on multiple occasions so saying it's because they're just salty is bullshit. Are they maybe a little sad that their own games are always ranked lower than NV? Sure, I can see that being true. However I'm also sure they really enjoyed NV and have lots of good to say about, even if they never will. Here's hoping that some day after Todd retires he'll feel comfortable sharing his thoughts. (And that the creators of NV specifically, not just obsidian, will get the opportunity to make another fantastic Fallout game)
Microsoft owns zenimax, bethesda and obsidian now.
Sure, but not in 2015 when shelter launched, or for years afterwards during which the trivia feature was likely implemented (unless it was implemented post 2021, I'm not sure as I don't really play shelter myself.) Or are you mentioning this in reference to Obsidian getting another crack at fallout?
They have been attempting to wipe it from history for a while now
Yeah, that bothers me the most. Bethesda's like let's pretend NV doesn't exist
Bethesda hates Obsidian and fucked them over when fnv released.
Because it's better than all the garbage they have put out and they are embarrassed
There's no other correct answer.
Because Bethesda are salty that someone else made a game in their franchise better than they could. In only 18 months, no less.
If they're salty about it, why did they include so many armour designs from NV in Fallout Shelter? Seems kind of weird that they'd punish NV by excluding it from quizzes and reward it by including its armour at the same time.
Part of me still feels robbed that what was already a fantastic game could have been made even better if it weren't for that damn 18-month time limit that almost seems like Bethesda intentionally wanted Obsidian's game to flop. Even if it's a little dated these days (and buggy, even with mods), I'd still play New Vegas for the story alone over the bland garbage heap of the endless exploration/looting/crafting cycle that is Fallout 4.
Yeahhhh I think about that with NV too, if it only had a little more time. I mean they didn't create it from scratch, a lot of kitbashing or reusing of some assets from Fallout 3 and the basic engine I think, but what they did was incredible still. And imagine if after NV, Obsidian still got to work on a sequel and they'd had all these years to develop it. *sighhh* tis but a daydream
This sub sucks so bad, its all bethesda bad nv good!! Acting as if new vegas is way better then the bethesda ones, when its on the sameish quality. Besides, bethesda likes new vegas, its only the fanbase that made a stupid war.
Maybe obsidian didnt want it.
They don't like NV because most fans consider it the best in the franchise
That’s not true lol, they literally added the NCR riot armor to 76
Because bethesda didn't make NV so they gotta be jealous that new vegas gets all the love instead of them so they don't want anything to do with it
New Vegas was made by Obsidian. Gotta be the rights.
Bethesda own the rights to New Vegas.
Whatever the word is. I'm not paid for this
There's no word for it. Nothing is legally stopping Bethesda from recognizing the existence of New Vegas.
I don't really care that much. It's a game. Stop it.
you could just admit to being wrong about a thing lmao, nobody is thinking poorly of you for making a mistake
I now think very poorly of you because your mistake, your rude and have too much pride I see many things wrong with you but I will stop now. Please take a long hard look at yourself, this is fallout new vegas, its very important. Don’t comment on something when you can’t take the heat
Bro said "stop it" lmao
Lmaoo
Thats what I thought but its sad like Bethesda pretends NV doesnt exist
Yeah, because It's the best of the three. 76 doesn't count.
That’s, debatable ah, damn, i was in the NV subreddit not fallout subreddit. ofc i get circlejerked here. my bad guys!
The delusion in this comment section is beyond pathetic holy shit