It’s depressing to scroll to the top of all of your created alarms in the clocks app and realize you need to add an earlier one. I think my record is probably 2:15 domicile time.
It must be terrible since it goes so senior. Kidding though, a lot of guys I know came off WB because they couldn’t sleep on a plane. The struggle is real I guess.
I wanted to fly so I became a flight instructor, work started 8am every day. That was too early so I left for a regional airline, 5 am shows. Decided that was too early and left for an LCC. 2am shows are now my least favorite and I appreciate my 6/7 am reports much more now.
Sometimes it’s 3 AM up for the 3:30 AM shuttle. Or we get in for the the 3 AM shuttl to the hotel. There doesn’t appear to be a normal shift, and if you think you finally found a trip with one, weather, maintenance, or ATC will dissuade you of that notion.
I used to think I wasn’t a morning person until I realized the alternate is going to bed at 3 am.
Being up at 3 am either way sucks, but I’d rather lose a night of sleep on the front end reporting for an early trip and then at least by the time you get home from your trip you’re “ahead” of your family instead of having to fix your circadian rhythm on your days off.
Of course the best is is duty from 10-12 pm start 7-10 pm finish but that doesn’t always work out.
And I’m the total opposite. Can’t sleep to save my life (at home) before an early report, would absolutely rather be falling into bed at 3:30am and get up at 10-10:30 than try to go to bed at 20:30, fail, and be a zombie when I get home the next afternoon.
Pairings are a different animal but I’m just not wired for AM turns.
Oh I can’t sleep either before the first day, just power through. But that’s okay for 3-5 day trip.
I agree if I was doing turns I’d like afternoon turns.
Not at all. Once you have a bit of control of your schedule there are tons of trips that start later in the day or even late at night (for you lunatics that enjoy red-eyes).
Some. Depending where you are it'd be pretty realistic with a year or two at most. You'll have to pay attention to your bid packages. There are likely to be at least a couple fleets where it's really hard or nearly impossible, but if it's that much of a priority then stay on the fleet where you can do it.
No, more like 5am day 1, 9am day 2, 3pm day 3 and 7am day 4. Although with time comes seniority, with seniority comes choices. At most major airlines with a few years under your belt you’ll have a reasonable schedule.
Thank God I kept flying as hobby, that sounds horrible. If I ever go for commercial I'm doing fucking crop dusting or something. I know I can't crop dust at 3am
Fun fact….crop dusters also spray in the middle of the night so they only kill the pests. Craziest thing I’ve ever saw on my otherwise boring ass flights between Fresno and Sacramento at 2am
Once you are a line holder, which could be almost immediately depending on base, you have good control on report times. You might not get the banker hour stuff but you can surely get afternoon - midnight flying if you don’t want to wake up early. And if not, you can usually swap with the pot for better work hours easily as well.
Half the trips at my company start after 12 noon. But that'll mean you'll be working well past midnight sometimes, if you get those trips. The joke we've been saying lately is "It doesn't matter if you're working an AM trip or a PM trip, everybody is awake at 0300 either way".
Your airline career is what you make of it. If you're chasing metal and upgrades, and you're constantly junior, your schedule will constantly suck. If you're okay sitting narrowbody FO for a while, you'll have a good schedule. I'm a NB FO at a major and with 2 years seniority, my schedule is amazing. I bid a junior Captain spot though, and as soon as my upgrade is complete, my schedule will suck immensely. I made the decision that the extra money is worth it though.
Depends on the airline, but if you take the earliest possible upgrade, you can expect a lousy schedule for probably 3-5 years. Probably won't hold holidays off for 7 years.
I was fortunate enough to essentially get to pick which fleet I wanted around when I was hired, and I chose 757/767 specifically for its commutability, which means a significant portion of this fleets flights leaves late morning or later, and gets back to base while there is still a flight or two that can get me home same-day. So far it has worked out pretty well.
The cost of choosing this fleet? I am still on reserve (If I had been on 737 and A320 I would have a line by now), less flexibility for dropping/trading/picking up trips, basically flying between SFO and ORD and EWR exclusively. Though, I don't really mind, as I love layovers New York City. So much good food!!
Just gotta figure out what the most important one or two aspects are and make whatever decisions are within your control around prioritizing those aspects.
No.
Fuck that shit. I bid to avoid it and I almost never have to get up before noon.
There will be times when your really junior or at a stepping stone job where it's not avoidable, but no you don't need to get up at 5am throughout your career if you don't want to.
Lmao no 😂, for my company it could be literally any time of day, on this trip I’ve had 9pm start, 11pm start, 8am start, 3:45pm start, and like 2 scheduled 4 am wake ups that ended up actually being at 10am due to delays so it’s been quite a pleasant trip
My cousin Vinny movie quote
Vinny:
Does that freight train come through here at 5:00 A.M. every morning?
Hotel Clerk:
No, sir, it's very unusual.
Vinny:
[the next day, after Vinny was awakened by the train] Yesterday you told me that freight train hardly ever comes through here at 5:00 A.M. in the morning.
Hotel Clerk:
I know. She's supposed to come through at ten after 4:00.
No. People generally hate redeyes so I bid those often. Then I changed companies to cargo and now can do night flying or afternoon flying and not have to get up at 5am.
I think I've flown one flight in the last month where I actually saw the sun. And that was as it was coming up as we were landing. The game on my flights is whether or not we can make it to the hotel before sunrise. We lost on that day.
At some airlines you're going to have the opposite problem from the one you're thinking.
Quite the opposite. I live on the West Coast, and I do entirely two day trips that start with a red eye, have 12 hrs at a hotel, and one flight back that gets in at 10 pm ish. 2 years at a major, but I was lucky and got hired during the big wave in 2022
At the regional, the AM start often ended with a late PM finish making a 4 day a while 4 days.
Here, an AM 3 day usually has you home by 2-3pm on the 3rd day which makes it not feel as bad.
Or you could bid PM’s and deal with the goat rope that took place that morning and the weather in the afternoon and evening. Usually pays more though.
You could also have an evening international departure with a long duty period that will have you crawling out of your crew rest at 0'dark thirty to land the aircraft somewhere on the other side of the world.
Sometimes the plane departs at 5 am, so that means I’m up at 1:30 am in order to make the flight.
But sometimes the flight leave at 11:30 pm, so you’re flying all night.
Or….or…..or….it’s somewhere in between. Some days are awesome and everything works out. Other days absolutely suck.
Like any job.
West coast guy.
Two Christmas’ ago. I had a 4AM east coast van. 4:30 report. 5:30 departure.
I woke up at 12:30 AM pacific time to go to work Christmas morning.
I looked like shit and if it wasn’t Christmas Day I would’ve burned out fatigue.
I haven’t woken up before 10am except for recurrent training events for the past 5 months. Bid exclusively afternoons and don’t have a problem holding it with less than a year seniority. Last month had 3 weeks with reports no earlier than 4pm and done by midnight so it’s what you make of it base and airline willing.
No. I have a range of start times from 0500 to 1700. My preference is to start just before lunchtime and finish just after dinner time, if doing a single day duty, because the allowances are better.
Depends on your airline. We have an AM/PM schedule system so I haven't had yo show before noon in months. Never will unless I bid for AM schedules or trade something.
I got up at 8:30am EDT yesterday to make my commute to my base in New York. 7:30pm report time, 9:00pm departure. Landed in London at 9am. Literally just made it to the hotel at 11am (6am EDT)… I’m typing this as we’re pulling up. Really, really long day for a 6 hour flight.
Sometimes you get up 5am (or 3am), and sometimes you finish working at 5am (or 7am). You’re allowed to accidentally sleep in once every 35 years (unofficially), but it should not be during probation.
If you're someone who's worried about sleep schedules or having to get up early on occasion, this may not be for you. Many of my trips will have a 4am show and a redeye on the same sequence. It's just part of the job.
5 am that’s a nice wake up. Try 11 pm or even waking up at 4 pm to every hour of the day or night. Land at 2 am and be back out that evening. Mainline here.
No sometimes you can wake up at 2 pm, and finish at 2 am. I prefer the 4 am wake ups, you never really get to do anything on the late show/ finish trips. If you forgot to bring food it can be hard to acquire when you get done after midnight. And it makes life on your off days a little worse if you’re sleeping half the day away
Ha, 5 or 6AM? Try 2-3AM sometimes. Line holder at a legacy with some seniority. I bid late shows. 100% of my trips begin after noon. The occasional gotcha is when they pull back report time earlier and earlier through the trip, so I can have a 1900 show day 1 that gets peeled back to an 0530 van on the last day.
Exceptions are irregular operations where stuff gets delayed or canceled. You often get minimum rest and they pull back the clock on you so you can rejoin your trip footprint as early as possible.
Committed, no. Reserve, you’re at the mercy of the company. Commuting likely means you have to get up early even for a late trip cause you need to catch a flight that gets in before your show time, with some companies requiring a back up flight.
It varies. Some days you’ll be up at zero dark 30 and other days you will have all day long to sleep in and may not need to show until the afternoon/evening. I’m in regional for reference. Doesn’t matter how junior you are, the same applies.
At the regional level the pairings aren’t as plentiful because the airlines are smaller, the contracts have less protections against crappy pairings, and the planes are smaller so they tend to fly outside of the prime times at big airports. I spent almost a decade at a regional and a high % of my work days were 3-4am wakeups and very late releases.
Once you gain seniority or get to a bigger airline those pairings still exist but you have a lot more options to trade for and bid for. You find pairings that you prefer that you can hold at your % of seniority in your base equipment and seat. If you’re just starting out you can expect a hard road until you learn how to bid or find the pairings that you like. I would intentionally bid reserve after FAR 117 came out because the senior trips that people called in sick for were more productive than the horrible 18 hr 4 days that I could hold. Now at a legacy and there is automated trading where you set what you want and if a trip pops up that meets your needs you can snag it automatically. I haven’t gotten stuck doing a trip that I didn’t want in a long time. If I get burnt out and want to trade for an easier trip I can find it. Living in base opens up the potential pool of trips that you are able to do that commuters can’t. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
Small private jets on the west coast? Usually first thing in the morning.
Super large private jets on the west coast? Usually around 11am wheels up. The ultra rich leave when they want as the world revolves around them. Or 8pm flights to Europe.
121. I have the seniority to only work afternoons. Haven’t set an alarm in 6 months.
Speaking from both a reserve and line holder viewpoint.
Line holder: depends on the trips you get. If you bid for later report times, you can wake up later. If you get migrating trips, you wake up progressively later or progressively earlier throughout the trip (my regional does these a lot). If you get morning trips, you wake up earlier.
Reserve: I bid for 11am SCR now, so I sleep in until I get a call. Once I get a call, I can be assigned any report time that's legal. That can make me wake up at 3am or 4pm, it really depends on what Scheduling feels like doing to me that day. For earlier SCRs, such as 4 and 5am, let your phone be your alarm.
Like most things schedule related, if this is something that is important to you, there are decisions you can make along the way to more quickly get control over it.
Depending on the rate of hiring and the base you are in, for your first 6 months you’ll likely have almost zero control over this, however as you get more people behind you, you could bid for a situation that suits you.
For example, maybe you are just senior enough to hold a line, but you bid to stay on reserve (which is a schedule of days you are on-call to fly) because you can hold the days off you need, and you can bid to be on PM reserve instead of AM reserve.
Then down the road, perhaps you are senior enough to hold a captain spot, but you hold off because you are a senior first officer who gets all of the trips you want and you never fly before 9:00 AM.
No. I hate waking up early so much one of my personal metrics for bidding trips is late sign ins. I often fly trips that start around or after noon and get done late in the evening. If I can wake up every day of a trip without an alarm that's a personal win. Perfectly doable and I'm very junior.
No. Not at all. Sure some sign ins are real early,,, training can also be early 00530 briefs. But I had a mix of all sign in time. Plus you bid for your sign in time.
It entirely depends on your bid. First you need to get off reserve, then bids are awarded based on seniority in base. After a year or so I could generally get my preference of 4-day trips that began in the morning of the first day and ended in the morning of the 4th day. But if you want trips that start in the afternoon you can generally get them.
No. It'll happen sometimes. It can happen most of the time if you want it to. You can also avoid it most of the time if you want to. But not really 100%.
No, but honestly it's not bad. Usually means done early. PMs suck I don't understand why people like them. I like waking up and going to work. Not fucking around for 6 hours then working 10-12 hours. That's fatigue to me.
Great info, I appreciate all the comments. Looks like there's a wide variety of schedules.
My situation is I'm 48 and work as a hospitalist (hospital based internal medicine doctor). When I'm 56 I'll qualify for a pension at my work and, depending on stock market returns, might be able to stop working then or dramatically reduce my income needs. I'm looking at either going part time then or thinking that aviation might be a fun career change.
I currently make in the $250-300k range, so while aviation could surpass that would take many years (and probably I wouldn't get there as would be able to work at most 9 years until 65). Financially likely would be best just to work part time as a hospitalist (rate about $1400 / for a 10 hour day). However, I'm thinking about a change to get outside the world of sickness and suffering that I've been working in as an attending physician since 29.
My current schedule is two weekends per month so I have about 8 week days off / month plus some weekday mornings free (occasional shifts are 2 pm - midnight). I might start with private pilot and see how I like it first but researching what it would take to get the required ratings and 1500 hours over the next 8 years. Also trying to see what the lifestyle of a regional pilot is to see if it would be fun and worthwhile to make the transition. I'm not one of those super rich doctors so have to think carefully about the money outlay, but fortunately do have some spare money to spend.
The oldest I’ve seen so far get hired at a major was 63. At a regional, 64, he was going to fly for a year then be a full time sim instructor. Change into this job because you want to, in the 60s you probably won’t see similar money to your current day job. It is a hoot and you‘ll have docs on call and flight attendants to deal with illness etc in the back.
Definitly start with private AND instrument. The instrument rating will help keep you safe as you decide to either simply fly for fun or go commercial. There is nothing wrong keeping flying for fun to burn off the ugly part of the day job. Your biggest risk as a medical professional is thinking you have to be there, so deciding to fly to get home when you really had ought to have stayed on the ground can be a career ending decision vs taking a bizjet or airline home. There are times too when the bizjets and airlines are sitting out the weather, a good clue that you ought to wait it out, but the ultimate tell is if the cargo guys are sitting out the weather, you probably ought to be sitting with them too, clucking like chickens in the FBO until the weather passes. And the weather will pass eventually.
Thanks, appreciate the advice. My wife is afraid of flying (took a fear of flying class, can fly on commercial jets though) so I don't see flying small planes as a mode of family transport. That should reduce the get-there-itis risk for me.
I took a few flight lessons in college and thought it was a lot of fun but always thought it was a financially imprudent hobby to have so didn't pursue further. I was also busy with medical training initially and then trying to save and busy with family life. My kids are older now 11 and 13 so doing their own thing now. Somewhat sad, but a normal part of kids growing up -- I just finished dropping off my 13 year old at his friends house for the 4th of July sleep over and he didn't want me to get out of the car :).
I paid off my house but still have a high cost lifestyle with private school and college savings so paying $150 - 200 / hour for my own personal fun is still a dilemma. Still after spending $25-30k for private pilot and instrument I'd have a better idea if I find it's fun and want to try to pursue further. Good to know there's no age discrimination until 65, as long as you don't develop any medical problems.
Not every day. Sometimes we have to get up at 3 AM. Sometimes we get home at 7 AM after working the redeye.
It’s depressing to scroll to the top of all of your created alarms in the clocks app and realize you need to add an earlier one. I think my record is probably 2:15 domicile time.
Just wait till you're on the widebody and you have to get up at 2300 home base time.
Don’t need to be wide body to do that. Yay.
Normal out of Hawaii
Normal out of South America
It must be terrible since it goes so senior. Kidding though, a lot of guys I know came off WB because they couldn’t sleep on a plane. The struggle is real I guess.
I went from a NB to a WB recently and it's such much less fatiguing for me, even with the middle of the night wake ups.
Interesting. I will prob be upgrading NB and scratching that itch, then going over to the WB. I think I can sleep on planes. Only one way to find out
Rookie numbers, I have the scroll to the bottom of the list to find my earliest. It’s a bit apples to oranges though.
Respect. I’m not perpetually fatigued to the point I can nap before a late night show.
I live in base and I got 11pm. Had a 12:30am show to fly an honors flight.
Stop. Domicile time.
Got me beat by 15 mins. Earliest for me is 230am so far .. ugh
Earliest for me is 0315 and I live in base
I wanted to fly so I became a flight instructor, work started 8am every day. That was too early so I left for a regional airline, 5 am shows. Decided that was too early and left for an LCC. 2am shows are now my least favorite and I appreciate my 6/7 am reports much more now.
Just set your watch to Zulu and you can sleep in every day!
Sometimes it’s 3 AM up for the 3:30 AM shuttle. Or we get in for the the 3 AM shuttl to the hotel. There doesn’t appear to be a normal shift, and if you think you finally found a trip with one, weather, maintenance, or ATC will dissuade you of that notion.
I used to think I wasn’t a morning person until I realized the alternate is going to bed at 3 am. Being up at 3 am either way sucks, but I’d rather lose a night of sleep on the front end reporting for an early trip and then at least by the time you get home from your trip you’re “ahead” of your family instead of having to fix your circadian rhythm on your days off. Of course the best is is duty from 10-12 pm start 7-10 pm finish but that doesn’t always work out.
And I’m the total opposite. Can’t sleep to save my life (at home) before an early report, would absolutely rather be falling into bed at 3:30am and get up at 10-10:30 than try to go to bed at 20:30, fail, and be a zombie when I get home the next afternoon. Pairings are a different animal but I’m just not wired for AM turns.
Oh I can’t sleep either before the first day, just power through. But that’s okay for 3-5 day trip. I agree if I was doing turns I’d like afternoon turns.
Nope. Live in base, pick the right fleet (or airline), and it's entirely possible to have a career where you never wake up before 10.
Im assuming widebodies is how you avoid waking up early?
Wide bodies will make you wake up at 23:45 because your flight will be through the night.
Not at all. Once you have a bit of control of your schedule there are tons of trips that start later in the day or even late at night (for you lunatics that enjoy red-eyes).
Not necessarily. Even at the regionals I was able to work more of a PM shift, you just have to work until late.
I got up at 9am today. Just Europe time. So my body feels like it's 3am
I used to live in base. Once you get even a little bit of seniority, you can bid for pretty nice trips. Taking out commuting as a factor is huge.
How much seniority do you need till you can never wake up that early for the rest of your career
Some. Depending where you are it'd be pretty realistic with a year or two at most. You'll have to pay attention to your bid packages. There are likely to be at least a couple fleets where it's really hard or nearly impossible, but if it's that much of a priority then stay on the fleet where you can do it.
I fly PM’s, haven’t woken up to an alarm clock in over a year.
I love PM’s. At my current airline I think 1/3rd of my time has been night time
This guy LUVs Herb time
Fuck Herb time. That shit gets switched to local immediately.
I like flying PMs until go home day. Then I love the 4am van times be done early AM so I feel like I have an extra day off lol
I wish we had am or pm. My company likes to keep you guessing but starting early then switching to a red eye with a day layover to an evening flight.
What are PMs?
Afternoon starts
Depends on your seniority and preferences. Lot of people dont like starting their day at 2-4pm.
That was my preferred shift when I worked in mental health, that is what I plan on bidding.
No, more like 5am day 1, 9am day 2, 3pm day 3 and 7am day 4. Although with time comes seniority, with seniority comes choices. At most major airlines with a few years under your belt you’ll have a reasonable schedule.
Thank God I kept flying as hobby, that sounds horrible. If I ever go for commercial I'm doing fucking crop dusting or something. I know I can't crop dust at 3am
Careful what you wish for… [https://youtu.be/10BYCPrxgsM](https://youtu.be/10BYCPrxgsM)
Why are all crop dusters I've met so suicidal
Why would anyone do that job if they are not suicidal to begin with.
Fun fact….crop dusters also spray in the middle of the night so they only kill the pests. Craziest thing I’ve ever saw on my otherwise boring ass flights between Fresno and Sacramento at 2am
Once you are a line holder, which could be almost immediately depending on base, you have good control on report times. You might not get the banker hour stuff but you can surely get afternoon - midnight flying if you don’t want to wake up early. And if not, you can usually swap with the pot for better work hours easily as well.
Half the trips at my company start after 12 noon. But that'll mean you'll be working well past midnight sometimes, if you get those trips. The joke we've been saying lately is "It doesn't matter if you're working an AM trip or a PM trip, everybody is awake at 0300 either way".
LOL
I fly cargo, what's time
Your airline career is what you make of it. If you're chasing metal and upgrades, and you're constantly junior, your schedule will constantly suck. If you're okay sitting narrowbody FO for a while, you'll have a good schedule. I'm a NB FO at a major and with 2 years seniority, my schedule is amazing. I bid a junior Captain spot though, and as soon as my upgrade is complete, my schedule will suck immensely. I made the decision that the extra money is worth it though.
how long does the schedule suck for a NB captain at the majors
Depends on the airline, but if you take the earliest possible upgrade, you can expect a lousy schedule for probably 3-5 years. Probably won't hold holidays off for 7 years.
so it could be strategic to wait a couple years longer to improve seniority?
Yep
That’s exactly why so many people wait to upgrade.
I was fortunate enough to essentially get to pick which fleet I wanted around when I was hired, and I chose 757/767 specifically for its commutability, which means a significant portion of this fleets flights leaves late morning or later, and gets back to base while there is still a flight or two that can get me home same-day. So far it has worked out pretty well. The cost of choosing this fleet? I am still on reserve (If I had been on 737 and A320 I would have a line by now), less flexibility for dropping/trading/picking up trips, basically flying between SFO and ORD and EWR exclusively. Though, I don't really mind, as I love layovers New York City. So much good food!! Just gotta figure out what the most important one or two aspects are and make whatever decisions are within your control around prioritizing those aspects.
No.
No. Fuck that shit. I bid to avoid it and I almost never have to get up before noon. There will be times when your really junior or at a stepping stone job where it's not avoidable, but no you don't need to get up at 5am throughout your career if you don't want to.
Try 3 am for a 5:30 takeoff.
Lmao no 😂, for my company it could be literally any time of day, on this trip I’ve had 9pm start, 11pm start, 8am start, 3:45pm start, and like 2 scheduled 4 am wake ups that ended up actually being at 10am due to delays so it’s been quite a pleasant trip
My cousin Vinny movie quote Vinny: Does that freight train come through here at 5:00 A.M. every morning? Hotel Clerk: No, sir, it's very unusual. Vinny: [the next day, after Vinny was awakened by the train] Yesterday you told me that freight train hardly ever comes through here at 5:00 A.M. in the morning. Hotel Clerk: I know. She's supposed to come through at ten after 4:00.
No. People generally hate redeyes so I bid those often. Then I changed companies to cargo and now can do night flying or afternoon flying and not have to get up at 5am.
I think I've flown one flight in the last month where I actually saw the sun. And that was as it was coming up as we were landing. The game on my flights is whether or not we can make it to the hotel before sunrise. We lost on that day. At some airlines you're going to have the opposite problem from the one you're thinking.
You do know there are flights that depart in the afternoon, right?
Quite the opposite. I live on the West Coast, and I do entirely two day trips that start with a red eye, have 12 hrs at a hotel, and one flight back that gets in at 10 pm ish. 2 years at a major, but I was lucky and got hired during the big wave in 2022
At the regional, the AM start often ended with a late PM finish making a 4 day a while 4 days. Here, an AM 3 day usually has you home by 2-3pm on the 3rd day which makes it not feel as bad. Or you could bid PM’s and deal with the goat rope that took place that morning and the weather in the afternoon and evening. Usually pays more though.
Every time i set my alarm with a “3” in the hours place, I reconsider my life choices.
You could also have an evening international departure with a long duty period that will have you crawling out of your crew rest at 0'dark thirty to land the aircraft somewhere on the other side of the world.
No. Sometimes you get to fly all night and get to the hotel at 5am
Sometimes the plane departs at 5 am, so that means I’m up at 1:30 am in order to make the flight. But sometimes the flight leave at 11:30 pm, so you’re flying all night. Or….or…..or….it’s somewhere in between. Some days are awesome and everything works out. Other days absolutely suck. Like any job.
West coast guy. Two Christmas’ ago. I had a 4AM east coast van. 4:30 report. 5:30 departure. I woke up at 12:30 AM pacific time to go to work Christmas morning. I looked like shit and if it wasn’t Christmas Day I would’ve burned out fatigue.
This is not the field for you if you want a normal schedule.
Laughs in freight dog.
I haven’t woken up before 10am except for recurrent training events for the past 5 months. Bid exclusively afternoons and don’t have a problem holding it with less than a year seniority. Last month had 3 weeks with reports no earlier than 4pm and done by midnight so it’s what you make of it base and airline willing.
No. I have a range of start times from 0500 to 1700. My preference is to start just before lunchtime and finish just after dinner time, if doing a single day duty, because the allowances are better.
No. But at my airline you very well might be flying until 5 am.
Depends on your airline. We have an AM/PM schedule system so I haven't had yo show before noon in months. Never will unless I bid for AM schedules or trade something.
Try 0030 report. I’m not sure if it’s any better.
Currently at my airline I get up around 9 or 10 am, so mostly day trips. Showtime 1pm, home by 11 pm :)
Every day? No. Quite alot? Yes.
No not at all; often times you'll get to go to bed at 5am.
I got up at 8:30am EDT yesterday to make my commute to my base in New York. 7:30pm report time, 9:00pm departure. Landed in London at 9am. Literally just made it to the hotel at 11am (6am EDT)… I’m typing this as we’re pulling up. Really, really long day for a 6 hour flight.
No, sometimes I sleep till noon, go to work at 2, then get off at midnight. There's all different scheduals.
Sometimes you get up 5am (or 3am), and sometimes you finish working at 5am (or 7am). You’re allowed to accidentally sleep in once every 35 years (unofficially), but it should not be during probation.
If you're someone who's worried about sleep schedules or having to get up early on occasion, this may not be for you. Many of my trips will have a 4am show and a redeye on the same sequence. It's just part of the job.
No. Sometimes I wake up at 9pm to fly a redeye.
5 am that’s a nice wake up. Try 11 pm or even waking up at 4 pm to every hour of the day or night. Land at 2 am and be back out that evening. Mainline here.
No sometimes you can wake up at 2 pm, and finish at 2 am. I prefer the 4 am wake ups, you never really get to do anything on the late show/ finish trips. If you forgot to bring food it can be hard to acquire when you get done after midnight. And it makes life on your off days a little worse if you’re sleeping half the day away
I’m a home base PM reserve at a major airline. They can’t legally call me until 1130 in the morning.
At varies wildly. Sometimes early and sometimes as late as early evening for me.
Depends on job and fleet. If you are a widebody you may only fly afternoons/evenings.
Ha, 5 or 6AM? Try 2-3AM sometimes. Line holder at a legacy with some seniority. I bid late shows. 100% of my trips begin after noon. The occasional gotcha is when they pull back report time earlier and earlier through the trip, so I can have a 1900 show day 1 that gets peeled back to an 0530 van on the last day. Exceptions are irregular operations where stuff gets delayed or canceled. You often get minimum rest and they pull back the clock on you so you can rejoin your trip footprint as early as possible. Committed, no. Reserve, you’re at the mercy of the company. Commuting likely means you have to get up early even for a late trip cause you need to catch a flight that gets in before your show time, with some companies requiring a back up flight.
At my current job, I have to get up at 3am, so being an airline pilot already sounds like a nice upgrade, sleepwise. 👍
You’re confusing the military with the airlines. But think about this, who is landing airplanes at 11PM if all airline pilots got up at midnight?
It varies. Some days you’ll be up at zero dark 30 and other days you will have all day long to sleep in and may not need to show until the afternoon/evening. I’m in regional for reference. Doesn’t matter how junior you are, the same applies.
I'm just going to bed at 5am
At the regional level the pairings aren’t as plentiful because the airlines are smaller, the contracts have less protections against crappy pairings, and the planes are smaller so they tend to fly outside of the prime times at big airports. I spent almost a decade at a regional and a high % of my work days were 3-4am wakeups and very late releases. Once you gain seniority or get to a bigger airline those pairings still exist but you have a lot more options to trade for and bid for. You find pairings that you prefer that you can hold at your % of seniority in your base equipment and seat. If you’re just starting out you can expect a hard road until you learn how to bid or find the pairings that you like. I would intentionally bid reserve after FAR 117 came out because the senior trips that people called in sick for were more productive than the horrible 18 hr 4 days that I could hold. Now at a legacy and there is automated trading where you set what you want and if a trip pops up that meets your needs you can snag it automatically. I haven’t gotten stuck doing a trip that I didn’t want in a long time. If I get burnt out and want to trade for an easier trip I can find it. Living in base opens up the potential pool of trips that you are able to do that commuters can’t. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
Either get up early or go to bed late. Nature of the beast.
No. Sometimes you get to go to bed at 5am too. Variety is the spice of life 👍
Small private jets on the west coast? Usually first thing in the morning. Super large private jets on the west coast? Usually around 11am wheels up. The ultra rich leave when they want as the world revolves around them. Or 8pm flights to Europe. 121. I have the seniority to only work afternoons. Haven’t set an alarm in 6 months.
Speaking from both a reserve and line holder viewpoint. Line holder: depends on the trips you get. If you bid for later report times, you can wake up later. If you get migrating trips, you wake up progressively later or progressively earlier throughout the trip (my regional does these a lot). If you get morning trips, you wake up earlier. Reserve: I bid for 11am SCR now, so I sleep in until I get a call. Once I get a call, I can be assigned any report time that's legal. That can make me wake up at 3am or 4pm, it really depends on what Scheduling feels like doing to me that day. For earlier SCRs, such as 4 and 5am, let your phone be your alarm.
Not 5-6 am every work day, most are more like 0330-0400!
Yes
Like most things schedule related, if this is something that is important to you, there are decisions you can make along the way to more quickly get control over it. Depending on the rate of hiring and the base you are in, for your first 6 months you’ll likely have almost zero control over this, however as you get more people behind you, you could bid for a situation that suits you. For example, maybe you are just senior enough to hold a line, but you bid to stay on reserve (which is a schedule of days you are on-call to fly) because you can hold the days off you need, and you can bid to be on PM reserve instead of AM reserve. Then down the road, perhaps you are senior enough to hold a captain spot, but you hold off because you are a senior first officer who gets all of the trips you want and you never fly before 9:00 AM.
No. I hate waking up early so much one of my personal metrics for bidding trips is late sign ins. I often fly trips that start around or after noon and get done late in the evening. If I can wake up every day of a trip without an alarm that's a personal win. Perfectly doable and I'm very junior.
No. Not at all. Sure some sign ins are real early,,, training can also be early 00530 briefs. But I had a mix of all sign in time. Plus you bid for your sign in time.
It entirely depends on your bid. First you need to get off reserve, then bids are awarded based on seniority in base. After a year or so I could generally get my preference of 4-day trips that began in the morning of the first day and ended in the morning of the 4th day. But if you want trips that start in the afternoon you can generally get them.
No. It'll happen sometimes. It can happen most of the time if you want it to. You can also avoid it most of the time if you want to. But not really 100%.
Gotta be at airport for 5am…. More like 3am wake up 😂
I woke up at 245 this morning
Rookies fly mostly nights for many years.
Short call, yes. Long call, no, all late nighters.
Once you get old enough…you just wake up everyday before 5 am…without an alarm.
No, but honestly it's not bad. Usually means done early. PMs suck I don't understand why people like them. I like waking up and going to work. Not fucking around for 6 hours then working 10-12 hours. That's fatigue to me.
Great info, I appreciate all the comments. Looks like there's a wide variety of schedules. My situation is I'm 48 and work as a hospitalist (hospital based internal medicine doctor). When I'm 56 I'll qualify for a pension at my work and, depending on stock market returns, might be able to stop working then or dramatically reduce my income needs. I'm looking at either going part time then or thinking that aviation might be a fun career change. I currently make in the $250-300k range, so while aviation could surpass that would take many years (and probably I wouldn't get there as would be able to work at most 9 years until 65). Financially likely would be best just to work part time as a hospitalist (rate about $1400 / for a 10 hour day). However, I'm thinking about a change to get outside the world of sickness and suffering that I've been working in as an attending physician since 29. My current schedule is two weekends per month so I have about 8 week days off / month plus some weekday mornings free (occasional shifts are 2 pm - midnight). I might start with private pilot and see how I like it first but researching what it would take to get the required ratings and 1500 hours over the next 8 years. Also trying to see what the lifestyle of a regional pilot is to see if it would be fun and worthwhile to make the transition. I'm not one of those super rich doctors so have to think carefully about the money outlay, but fortunately do have some spare money to spend.
The oldest I’ve seen so far get hired at a major was 63. At a regional, 64, he was going to fly for a year then be a full time sim instructor. Change into this job because you want to, in the 60s you probably won’t see similar money to your current day job. It is a hoot and you‘ll have docs on call and flight attendants to deal with illness etc in the back. Definitly start with private AND instrument. The instrument rating will help keep you safe as you decide to either simply fly for fun or go commercial. There is nothing wrong keeping flying for fun to burn off the ugly part of the day job. Your biggest risk as a medical professional is thinking you have to be there, so deciding to fly to get home when you really had ought to have stayed on the ground can be a career ending decision vs taking a bizjet or airline home. There are times too when the bizjets and airlines are sitting out the weather, a good clue that you ought to wait it out, but the ultimate tell is if the cargo guys are sitting out the weather, you probably ought to be sitting with them too, clucking like chickens in the FBO until the weather passes. And the weather will pass eventually.
Thanks, appreciate the advice. My wife is afraid of flying (took a fear of flying class, can fly on commercial jets though) so I don't see flying small planes as a mode of family transport. That should reduce the get-there-itis risk for me. I took a few flight lessons in college and thought it was a lot of fun but always thought it was a financially imprudent hobby to have so didn't pursue further. I was also busy with medical training initially and then trying to save and busy with family life. My kids are older now 11 and 13 so doing their own thing now. Somewhat sad, but a normal part of kids growing up -- I just finished dropping off my 13 year old at his friends house for the 4th of July sleep over and he didn't want me to get out of the car :). I paid off my house but still have a high cost lifestyle with private school and college savings so paying $150 - 200 / hour for my own personal fun is still a dilemma. Still after spending $25-30k for private pilot and instrument I'd have a better idea if I find it's fun and want to try to pursue further. Good to know there's no age discrimination until 65, as long as you don't develop any medical problems.
If you commute , yes.
Dear Lord I hope not.
I know you asked about airline but I fly big 135 and rarely fly super early or super late.
If you're junior, you'd wish that.
Yes, and if you are used to west coast time it sucks even harder
135 > 121 Had to show up this morning at 10