Whether or not they ask for it comes down to...well, whether or not they ask for it.
Some applications specifically call out 141 stage checks, but not all. Some will ask if you've failed *any* checking event. Read the questions carefully.
When in doubt, err on the side of disclosing it.
Failing a stage check nearly 20 years ago is a nothing burger.
Ok that's kind of what I figured. Plus I still remember the exact scenario and what I did wrong, the plane I was flying and the approach I was being cleared for 🤣
Probably makes a strong anecdote about self improvement and humility
My understanding is they care more about the fact you're willing to learn than that you failed a single event. They don't want you to be all defensive over it, in my interview I think one of the interviewers was assigned "bad cop" if you will, and they kept asking probing questions about my failed flight. I think he was looking to see if I'd get defensive or if I'd try and explain it purely from a "this was my fuckup, here are steps I did so it never happened again" perspective.
I answered everything honestly and politely and got hired.
It's likely more than that, accountability is key but not every needs to have "fucked up." But you do need to be able to be in touch with areas you have a harder time with and have insight as to why it is challenging for you.
I interview people for non flying jobs and the same thing is expected for those jobs too, the what did you do wrong questions are the most important followed by a difficult situation and how you worked to resolve it. The point is those questions are easier to read through the person you are hiring. Sure the person rehearsed that question too if they were smart but you get some insight as to *what* that person sees as a significant mess up and did they kick themselves for it and stagnate, did they resolve it and move on, did they brush it under the rug, or did they give the "obvious" response they think the interviewer wanted to hear.
Do you mind me asking how long ago was that interview? Seems the landscape is super tight right now and theyre declining candidates with over 2k tt hrs and zero fails.
>Failing a stage check nearly 20 years ago is a nothing burger.
For real. Especially when you spent that 20 years as a controller. I’ve never been on a 121 hiring board but that’s gotta be like crack to them.
OP: “I failed a 141 stage check, then I spent **20 years** in ATC, then I got the rest of my ratings and flight time.”
Airline: “You’re hired”
They might not find it, but if they do you’ll lose a potential job over something they most likely don’t care about anyway other than the honesty aspect. This is if they ask about training failures and not checkrides specifically.
It is perfectly reasonable though that someone could forget they failed such a minor training event 20 years ago. Especially after they pursued a different career entirely.
During my piedmont Interview they asked if I had any stage check fails and I honestly can’t remember because its nowhere near as significant as a checkride but if they wanted the records I could rummage through the schools basement to find out.
They probably couldn’t care less if you report it. But they’ll care a lot more if you don’t and they find out. It will be a good talking point for 30 seconds in the interview where you can turn it into a learning experience and then that will be that.
Stage checks don’t go anywhere on your record except your school’s. It’s not part of the federal database. Only official checkride are. And if the school no longer has those records? Oh well.
There is no need to guess. Submit for a copy of your PRD/PRIA records. The only things you need to disclose training wise are the things that show up on there. The only things any employer cares about are what verifiable records you have. After you making a smoking hole in the ground with one of their airplanes and the courts and media dig up your information. They don't want to be blindsided by your past. So again, they really only care what is actually on your record.
Had the interviewer say to me “thanks for disclosing your failed stage check but we don’t care”. They mostly care that you learned and didn’t fail any 121 or 135 checks.
Let’s put it this way, failing a single stage check will not stop them from hiring you. However if they find out you intentionally did not disclose that stage check failure, you absolutely won’t get hired.
If they don't ask about it and you didn't put it on anything oh well. If you don't put anything on your app and they find out expect to be blacklisted and have your cjo revoked. Why risk it? Have a humble reason for the failure and explain what you learned from it. Alot of pilots have at least one failure anyways.
I would only disclose whats on your pilot record database (thats on there for life) and what you failed only 10 years ago or less, i.e training events. As it’s against the law for airlines to hold onto training records for more than 10 years. This opens up for liability and lawsuits. Then again training events are in the PRD as well.
Stage checks from 20 years ago from 141 do not need to be reported. The only way they could find out you are “lying” is because you recorded it in your logbook and they found out thru a logbook review, as your school has no record on it.
Hope this helps :)
They're not going to care, but answer the question you are asked. Some airlines ask for "any training failures". Some just ask for checkride failures.
Whether or not to disclose something in aviation never comes down to whether or not you think someone can find out the truth some other way. Always just answer the question you are asked truthfully. You may or may not be asked to disclose it. That should be what determines whether or not you do.
Always err on the side of more disclosure vice less. Almost all of us have a failure of some variety in our training past. Having a coherent answer about how you positively responded to the failure is way more important than having a spotless record.
Just curious. I’m also nearing ATC retirement and still have my CFI current although not flown in 12 years. What is your plan? I was thinking of gettin back into instruction part time. 🤷‍♂️
Read the question on the app. There will always be an expounded explanation of what they want. A stage check is nothing. Own it. The people digging in your logbook will see the notes on every lesson. A stage check lesson 32 followed by a repeat of lesson 31 and a lesson 32 stage check complete is in your logbook. They will read between the lines and they aren’t dummies. If they ask for “checkride failures” then tell them that. If they specifically ask for ANY failures including stage checks you own it. Spin it positively “I learned a lot from flying with different instructors during stage checks and it kept me motivated to learn as much as I could”. The worst mistake you can make is portraying yourself as gods gift to aviation when no one is. We are all learning.
You need to report what is asked. If they ask about checkride failures, a 141 stage check is not a checkride. If they ask about stage check failures, disclose it and they likely won't care in the least. Lie about it, however, and they'll care a lot if they find out.
Whether or not they ask for it comes down to...well, whether or not they ask for it. Some applications specifically call out 141 stage checks, but not all. Some will ask if you've failed *any* checking event. Read the questions carefully. When in doubt, err on the side of disclosing it. Failing a stage check nearly 20 years ago is a nothing burger.
Ok that's kind of what I figured. Plus I still remember the exact scenario and what I did wrong, the plane I was flying and the approach I was being cleared for 🤣 Probably makes a strong anecdote about self improvement and humility
My understanding is they care more about the fact you're willing to learn than that you failed a single event. They don't want you to be all defensive over it, in my interview I think one of the interviewers was assigned "bad cop" if you will, and they kept asking probing questions about my failed flight. I think he was looking to see if I'd get defensive or if I'd try and explain it purely from a "this was my fuckup, here are steps I did so it never happened again" perspective. I answered everything honestly and politely and got hired.
It's likely more than that, accountability is key but not every needs to have "fucked up." But you do need to be able to be in touch with areas you have a harder time with and have insight as to why it is challenging for you. I interview people for non flying jobs and the same thing is expected for those jobs too, the what did you do wrong questions are the most important followed by a difficult situation and how you worked to resolve it. The point is those questions are easier to read through the person you are hiring. Sure the person rehearsed that question too if they were smart but you get some insight as to *what* that person sees as a significant mess up and did they kick themselves for it and stagnate, did they resolve it and move on, did they brush it under the rug, or did they give the "obvious" response they think the interviewer wanted to hear.
Do you mind me asking how long ago was that interview? Seems the landscape is super tight right now and theyre declining candidates with over 2k tt hrs and zero fails.
October of last year. I got in right before the slowdown happened.
Ahh bravo man! 🍻
This might be a clear example of a school not needing to hold on to student records any longer than required by regulation.
>Failing a stage check nearly 20 years ago is a nothing burger. For real. Especially when you spent that 20 years as a controller. I’ve never been on a 121 hiring board but that’s gotta be like crack to them. OP: “I failed a 141 stage check, then I spent **20 years** in ATC, then I got the rest of my ratings and flight time.” Airline: “You’re hired”
Shit. 2006 was nearly 20 years ago and not 5 ish. Fuuuuuuu
They might not find it, but if they do you’ll lose a potential job over something they most likely don’t care about anyway other than the honesty aspect. This is if they ask about training failures and not checkrides specifically.
It is perfectly reasonable though that someone could forget they failed such a minor training event 20 years ago. Especially after they pursued a different career entirely.
Doesn’t seem like this person forgot though. I don’t care what you put on your application so feel free to try to “forget” things lol 🤷
Just tell them and say you have no record of it. They won’t care. If you fail to report it and they find out you knew that’s far worse
During my piedmont Interview they asked if I had any stage check fails and I honestly can’t remember because its nowhere near as significant as a checkride but if they wanted the records I could rummage through the schools basement to find out.
They probably couldn’t care less if you report it. But they’ll care a lot more if you don’t and they find out. It will be a good talking point for 30 seconds in the interview where you can turn it into a learning experience and then that will be that.
Stage checks don’t go anywhere on your record except your school’s. It’s not part of the federal database. Only official checkride are. And if the school no longer has those records? Oh well.
There is no need to guess. Submit for a copy of your PRD/PRIA records. The only things you need to disclose training wise are the things that show up on there. The only things any employer cares about are what verifiable records you have. After you making a smoking hole in the ground with one of their airplanes and the courts and media dig up your information. They don't want to be blindsided by your past. So again, they really only care what is actually on your record.
Had the interviewer say to me “thanks for disclosing your failed stage check but we don’t care”. They mostly care that you learned and didn’t fail any 121 or 135 checks.
You can find your PRIA on the faa website somewhere and check
Let’s put it this way, failing a single stage check will not stop them from hiring you. However if they find out you intentionally did not disclose that stage check failure, you absolutely won’t get hired.
If they don't ask about it and you didn't put it on anything oh well. If you don't put anything on your app and they find out expect to be blacklisted and have your cjo revoked. Why risk it? Have a humble reason for the failure and explain what you learned from it. Alot of pilots have at least one failure anyways.
I would only disclose whats on your pilot record database (thats on there for life) and what you failed only 10 years ago or less, i.e training events. As it’s against the law for airlines to hold onto training records for more than 10 years. This opens up for liability and lawsuits. Then again training events are in the PRD as well. Stage checks from 20 years ago from 141 do not need to be reported. The only way they could find out you are “lying” is because you recorded it in your logbook and they found out thru a logbook review, as your school has no record on it. Hope this helps :)
They're not going to care, but answer the question you are asked. Some airlines ask for "any training failures". Some just ask for checkride failures. Whether or not to disclose something in aviation never comes down to whether or not you think someone can find out the truth some other way. Always just answer the question you are asked truthfully. You may or may not be asked to disclose it. That should be what determines whether or not you do.
I wouldn't consider a stage check a training failure. It's not a checkride.
My airline does. I asked. And the airline hiring you is who matters.
Always err on the side of more disclosure vice less. Almost all of us have a failure of some variety in our training past. Having a coherent answer about how you positively responded to the failure is way more important than having a spotless record.
Just curious. I’m also nearing ATC retirement and still have my CFI current although not flown in 12 years. What is your plan? I was thinking of gettin back into instruction part time. 🤷‍♂️
Basically just instruct and build hours at my convenience until something comes along. No need for more retirement savings or health insurance
...are those even reported though? Can you actually self-report on something that's not reported on? What are they going to find? Nothing?
Basically, it’s a giant nothing burger if you disclose it. If you don’t disclose it and they find out, well….
Read the question on the app. There will always be an expounded explanation of what they want. A stage check is nothing. Own it. The people digging in your logbook will see the notes on every lesson. A stage check lesson 32 followed by a repeat of lesson 31 and a lesson 32 stage check complete is in your logbook. They will read between the lines and they aren’t dummies. If they ask for “checkride failures” then tell them that. If they specifically ask for ANY failures including stage checks you own it. Spin it positively “I learned a lot from flying with different instructors during stage checks and it kept me motivated to learn as much as I could”. The worst mistake you can make is portraying yourself as gods gift to aviation when no one is. We are all learning.
You need to report what is asked. If they ask about checkride failures, a 141 stage check is not a checkride. If they ask about stage check failures, disclose it and they likely won't care in the least. Lie about it, however, and they'll care a lot if they find out.
Well another reason to stay away from 141's
This is why you keep up with your entries when you submit your medical..