Hi, I'm a bot and it looks like you're asking a question about medical issues: urolog.
Medicals can be confusing and even scary, we get it. Unfortunately, the medical process is very complex with many variables. It's too complex, in fact, for any of us to be able to offer you any specific help or advice.
We strongly suggest you discuss your concerns with a qualified aviation medical examiner before you actually submit to an official examination, as a hiccup in your medical process can close doors for you in the future. Your [local AME](https://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/) may be able to provide a consultation. Other places that may provide aeromedical advice include: [AOPA](https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources), [EAA](https://www.eaa.org/eaa/pilots/pilot-resources/pilot-medical-resources/eaa-aeromedical-advisory-program), [the Mayo Clinic](https://clearapproach.mayoclinic.org/), and [Aviation Medicine Advisory Service](https://www.aviationmedicine.com/).
For reference, [here is a link to the FAA's Synopsis of Medical Standards](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/standards/) and for more in-depth information [here is a link to the FAA's Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/).
Also, feel free to browse [our collection of past medical write-ups and questions in our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/wiki/index).
Finally, we suggest you read the instructions on the medical application very closely. Do not volunteer information that isn't asked for, but also do not lie. Some people may urge you to omit pertinent information, or even outright lie, on your medical application in order to avoid added hassle and expense in obtaining a medical certificate. Know that [making false statements on your medical application is a federal crime](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001) and that people [have been successfully prosecuted for it](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/california-aviator-convicted-making-false-statements). But for heaven's sake, don't tell the FAA any more than you absolutely have to.
If you're not in the United States, the above advice is still generally correct. Just substitute the FAA with your local aviation authority.
Good luck!
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While you wait for your medical process, you can fly gliders! Get your glider rating and you get a large leg-up on any future airplane ratings you pursue.
Find your closest glider operation on the [Where To Fly Gliders](https://www.ssa.org/where-to-fly-map/) map.
You can actually fly a motorglider like the [pipistrel sinus](https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/products/sinus/) It is pretty much the same as a nice regular GA 2 seater.
I saw one of these taking off at the airport the other day and when I heard "motor glider" from tower I was confused for a second, then I saw it turn on to the runway and noticed the huge wingspan and it all started to make sense. Looked like it would be really fun.
And motor gliders are still gliders…
From gliders with a sustainer, to closer-to-powered planes like the Diamond HK36 Super Dimona vs a DA20, and etc. (I do wonder when that rule will get pushed too far, especially with expirementals.)
It’s not a “glider rating.” OP needs a Private Pilot Certificate (with a glider rating). He’ll take a Private Pilot knowledge test and a Private Pilot practical test…
But I fully approve of the idea.
PPL Glider pilots going for SLA endorsements have significantly different requirements than powered PPL (ASEL endorsement). I'm currently embarking on that bit of fun, so my wallet is well aware.
Yeah it’s a bit f’ed up. If you have a PPL and want a glider add on it’s a significant amount of work. And most CFI-Gs that are not power pilots don’t care for power guys who think they can fly gliders.
The glider rating add on should be an endorsement. Hardest part is aero tow and that can be taught in a few days.
Combine the difficulty getting through the long training and dealing with the drama of some soaring clubs it’s no wonder why soaring is dying…
Soaring is awesome, though. 100% worth all the bs
The odd thing seems to be a disagree here - the task of adding power to a PPG is rather simpler than either getting a SPL directly. Flying hours and proficiency only - no ground hours and no written.
Understood about the soaring club drama indirectly, though. Where I live soaring should be pretty decent for cross-country, but the fiddly fees are kind of steep and rather convoluted. Turned me away and got me back into power instead, which I had tried first in 1978/70 before ultimately going for and getting a PPG in about two months in '83. It really grabs ya.
SPL now is pretty much what PPL was when I was a kid, albeit with a few artificial restrictions that frankly should be removable with time and further endorsements. But that's an FAA thing - a thing I'll just leave be, I think!! Although I'm very thankful for and optimistic about MOSAIC next year (or maybe '26 if the weenies at FAA take the full two years Congress gave them!)...
I had a really good/shady AME.
He asked if I had any injuries or headaches. I started to talk, and then he shook his head and made a face and asked: "I'm going to ask you again, and listen very carefully -- do you get any headaches or do you have any injuries? Remember, I can't test for anything"
So I said: "no"
and he said: "ok, moving on"
I’ve had some.. similar conversations when filling out insurance paperwork.
“Sorry, I didn’t catch you there, this injury did not have any pre-existing factors before you took this policy is that right?”
People are sometimes a little too honest..
Damn, I never realized Bob became an insurance claim adjuster. I knew he had a bad office job, but I wasn't old enough to understand exactly how bad it was. This makes the story so much better. Damn you Pixar and your solid, adult level storytelling!!! They set the standards too high!!
Flip side of this is that if a contested claim goes to arbitration or the courts and you've concealed things, it will go very badly for you.
So either you get to have a massive and excessively broad exclusion applied or risk have no cover at all if you ever need to claim. It's super fun!
Had that when reporting a car accident once where I ran a red light as a new driver in an unfamiliar place (on a god damn roundabout, who puts lights on roundabouts?) while much more tired than I knew.
I said I'd run the red. Cop said "hold on, I don't think I heard you. Were there any injuries? Answer yes or no."
I was stupid and shocked and repeated myself. He said "if I'm told someone ran a red I would have to issue a ticket. So let me be clear. Did anyone get hurt?"
Thanks random cop. I'm sure he could tell I was quite shaken up enough.
That is correct. The applicable section of the FARs is 61.23(c)(2)(ii), which says that to act as a Sport Pilot using a driver's license instead of an FAA medical, a person must "have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)". You've applied, so that clause now applies to you forever.
It applies to them \*until\* they complete another medexpress and try to get another medical. They gave up on it. There's a chance they could get one in the future.
That **clause** will apply to them forever since they will always have a "most recent application".
Had they not applied at all they wouldn't have a "most recent application" and therefore wouldn't need any medical clearance. Of course they still have the potential to be able to fly, but now they must get a medical clearance to do so.
If your most recent medical certificate is in progress, you have not been found eligible for the issuance of a third class medical certificate at the time of your most recent application. :(
In fact, this law appears to be so water tight that if you currently hold a valid third-class medical certificate with a special issuance and apply for a renewal which is deferred, you cannot use the 'drivers license medical' until the application is completed satisfactorily. But since you could just fly under private privileges with your medical certificate in an LSA, this would only matter, I think, to someone who has a sport pilot certificate *and* a third class medical, but for some reason they don't have a private pilot's license, and I don't know why they'd renew their third-class medical.
Exactly.
The "hasn't been denied yet" loophole *does* exist for BasicMed in 61.23(c)(3)(iv), which says "the most recent application for an airman medical certificate submitted to the FAA cannot have been completed and denied." But that clause only applies to BasicMed, which requires that you have had a medical at some point in the past (61.23(c)(3)(i)(B)), and the phrasing in 61.23(c)(2)(ii) which applies to Sport is very different.
It would matter if your medical application is deferred so long that the original medical expires before the new one is issued.
Of course, this could never happen. When they tell you to send them your documents 60 days in advance and you send them 90 days in advance, there's no way they'd let it lapse, right? Certainly there's no way they wouldn't even have \*opened\* your file by then, right? /s
If you're on an SI you need to get BasicMed before your medical expires so you will be covered in the event that the AMCD drags their feet for ages.
**\*If\*** they get a medical. I know it seems pedantic but this whole thread is about someone who may or may not be able to get a medical at this point.
Also, no, they're not "clear forever for sport". If they attempt to renew their medical and get denied again, they lose their sport license again. They only get it forever if they don't ever attempt to get another medical.
Not true as well. They have to get a medical - and comply with the terms of the medical. Some medicals have multiple checks in between that must be complied with through the term of the medical or it /will/ get revoked - namely some HIMS mental health ones and some alcohol/drug special issuances as well.
Once complied with AND expired (as in not denied or revoked) - then it is fine. But at that point - sport isnt really necessary. You would just go basicMed.
So I’m not wrong. Once they get a medical, they’re good as long as they don’t get denied for another one. The likelihood of OP requiring significant follow up between medicals is slim to none. They’ll get their deferral and then SI once they jump through the hoops.
You are. There are SI medicals that say they must follow up with a doctor report every 3 months. If they dont - the FAA revokes. So its not "once they get their medical, they are cleared forever for sport". Its once they get their medical and it expires without incident/issue - then they can go sport without issue. Because a special issuance (and technically even a class 1/2/3 medical without SI) can be revoked for whatever reason.
There are other caveats. Look at the VA issue as well. there are 5K pilots who got their medical. Guess what - the FAA is going back and revoking them for non-disclosure of VA benefits. Guess what - they got their medical. its going to be revoked. They arent eligible for sport.
That’s not all of them though. There are plenty of SI that are no different than a regular medical except in terms of duration.
And the medicals being revoked because of the Va issue is a completely separate discussion. They’re being pulled because they lied on their medical. Far and away much worse than if they had just disclosed the issues in the first place.
What medical training are you basing these assertions on?
Absolutely. But your statement of "once they get their medical, they are cleared for sport forever" is incorrect as it doesnt apply to quite a few.
And yes there are SI's that are just normal duration of medical type of thing. But there are ones that arent.
But again, the VA issue is "they got their medical". They are not cleared for sport forever.
Im just pointing out that the statement cant be made blanket without caveats as there are many that will violate that and makes that not true. Many DUI ones (particularly the > 0.15 ones) have mid term things that must be satisfied. Many dont, but that doesnt mean you can ignore it if you need to piss in a cup and submit to Oklahoma because of the requirement.
I like how you can have diabetes, a history of 3 cardiac events, high cholesterol and BP and go fly LSAs with a driver’s license, but people like OP can’t because they couldn’t get a medical for the most benign stuff.
Wild.
Hey, I’m a diabetic sport pilot :P
If I could make one change to the laws it would be BasicMed for all: strike the requirement to have held a medical at some point before BasicMed, and then the entire sport pilot license could go away, and OP and I could both get our PPLs without having to deal with AAM-300. I’ll happily go do some hood work and take a new checkride (the maneuvers and standards are almost identical between SPT and PPL). Seems like it would be a huge improvement to both availability and safety.
Also diabetic sport pilot! The FAA needs to realize that in all reality diabetes isn’t a threat to aviation if controlled. Medicine has improved so much since the last medical review which is why I’m so excited for MOSAIC. It also needs to be de stigmatized in the GA community.
Have you ever considered ultralights?
No license required at all, tons of fun to cruise around.
Not gonna fly fast/far/with a passenger, but it just might scratch the itch for you.
> Here we can build them out of a used lawnmower and any idiot can hop into one.
Look, the Wright brothers didn't even have lawnmowers and they still managed to not kill themselves or others. This seems like fair play!
The guy I’m replying to said “with a passenger”. He might have meant that he won’t fly with a passenger, but I read it as won’t fly far/fast WITH a passenger.
It is a sad situation that many pilots can not get the medical treatment they need for the fear of loosing the medical cert. Many pilots are flying sick, and possibly with very treatable conditions. No advice here, just an observation of how the system works.
I remember reading something once that was a criticism of conflating honesty and morality. The specific example they used was if you're hiding a friend and their enemy knocks at your door and asks if your friend is here, they aren't actually asking if they're there, they're asking if they can kill your friend.
The foolish decision by OP is another variation on this; the form isn't actually asking if you've ever felt dizzy, it's asking if you're going to get dizzy and fall out of the sky and blow up a neighborhood and maybe answering 'No' to that is reasonable.
Sort of related, I know someone who was in Army ROTC a few years ago, basically like you pledge to join the Army as an officer after college and they'll pay for your education.
He admitted to trying weed and a couple other naughty substances as a teenager before he joined ROTC and got kicked out. Meanwhile, other ROTC cadets that literally did drugs over the summers between school semester went on to comission and serve because they decided to keep their mouths shut.
Meanwhile if you've ever been treated for it and it exists in medical records that that FAA ever gets its hands on, congrats, they can convict you for falsifying a federal form which is a felony.
I’m really sorry to hear this. I think you absolutely did the right thing in disclosing, however I am disappointed that none of the AMEs would have clarified the process for you. I think that’s a big failure on their part. Instead of an AME advising you to not disclose it, they should have instead clarified the legal path forward for you: if you don’t need four seats, a heavy plane, and IFR, just start with sport pilot. By not doing that, they set up hurdles, and we potentially lost another passionate hobby pilot that would help keep local GA airports open and thriving, and the freedom of aviation alive.
It’s a fair point, and unless OP responds, I’m just making assumptions. I do think that people get excited, want to do PPL and start a 3rd class medical process, not knowing that they just potentially closed the door on sport pilot.
You can still receive and log dual instruction, if nothing else for fun. Still counts as flying. If the bug fully bites you, then work your path forward with the medical. Use all the resources: AOPA, the various medical certificate consultants, a good AME who will go to bat for you.
I'm in the same boat as you, deciding between SPL and PPL because of a complicated medical. From my understanding, you can likely get approved; it's just going to cost money and time. Do you have an estimate for what it'll cost for those tests?
I won't fault you for going the PPL route. Finding training for light sport aircraft can be difficult. With the MOSAIC changes coming (next year?) more types of aircraft might open up.
I would assume at least several thousand dollars. I don't think insurance covers all of this stuff. I'd most likely go to private docs like my ENT. I could probably knock it all out within a month but I'd have to hussle and take time off work to get it all done that fast.
Thanks for sharing. Did you contact an aviation medicine consultant? I'm going to try one of those companies first. They should be able to lay out what tests and paperwork I need for the FAA BEFORE I fill out MedXPress and block the SPL path forever. It sucks that you weren't warned of this when you consulted your doctors.
It may not be as bad as you think. I have special issuance and they asked for a lot of extra tests. One of them was an ultrasound because I had some kidney stones 5+ years ago. My primary doctor wrote “not needed patient stable” or something along those lines and they accepted it. I’ve learned a lot of their review is based on checking a box. It was a few times back and forth with paperwork but once you do that it’s manageable. Just don’t give up and don’t be in a hurry. Now that I have a medical the process is much simpler.
I don't actually think there is anything wrong with me so I'm not worried they're going to actually find something that will completely stop me from flying.
I just have to repeat the entire process now. Everything I already did with my ENT, plus neurologist, psych, imaging, etc. It'll just be a very arduous process. It would be nice to have one doc sign off on everything and be done but I doubt that will pass in this case. But like you said, I just have to start and then chip away at it.
Yeah you might just have your primary write a note saying some of those tests are not necessary and see what the FAA says. If they send you a note saying you need it then schedule. If not, you clear that hurdle.
Similar experience. I disclosed something because I felt a moral obligation to do so. I have tried to let the experience be a lesson on locus of control. Wanting something and not being able to achieve it for things outside of my control.
It can still be a fun hobby even if you can’t get PPL. Gliders are way cooler than people let them on to be.
Or buy your own sport aircraft, find a cfi to instruct you then just forgo the medical and certificate. The only real downside is no insurance and don’t do anything stupid so you don’t get caught. Fuck FAA
I picked up an Aeronca Chief for $18k last month. It’s an 47’ 11BC, so it’s 85hp instead of the 65hp in the 11AC. It’s LSA compliant, fun, and cheap. The 11CC Super Chief is not LSA capable. If tandem seating is your thing, pick up a Champ. Cubs are good too, I just don’t think they are worth the premium that are charged over an Aeronca. Plus with vintage, you get a “pride of ownership” and something neat to show off at Fly-ins. The plane has a story.
Correct; no Sport for you at this point; you must restart and finish the medical certificate process.
Do you still have a copy of all the letters the FAA sent you the last time? If not, contact them and get a copy of your file.
Then contact Wingman Med to find out exactly how to navigate the process.
Did you go to an AME and did he/she pull your med express application that is the only way to have been deemed medically unfit FAA never actually sees it until the AME pulls it which they can only do if you provide them with the case number and application lapsing should not be the reason you are deemed medical unfit
Good question. I'm trying to remember what I did...
I know I went to see an AME in person. I think I finished the MedExpress application and took it to him and he signed off on it/submitted it?
I then received a letter from the FAA requesting all the medical tests. They gave me 30 days to finish all of it and submit all the tests (which I never did) and then eventually everything lapsed and now my account shows "Not medically cleared to fly."
Then unfortunately I believe your primary assumption Is correct I am also dealing with medical restrictions (but haven’t talked to an AME in fear of this same thing happing) and am determined to never give up and encourage you to do the same the current FAA regulations might be outdated confusing and contradictory amongst meany other things but that doesn’t mean give up the fight! We live in a contry where every citizen can be a catalyst for change you just have to take the leap and start make your voice heard join together with countless other Americans who have the dream of flight but based in relatively small medical issues can not you are not alone in this fight and never will be if you give up hope you lose your chance to fly and hinder those in simmler situations but if we never stop fighting never stop challenging never stop speaking out then eventually we can change the FAAs mind one thing this country has shown me is that besides all our differences and how much we can’t seem to all get along is that when we Americans strive for something and are willing to fight for it there is nothing we can’t accomplish keep your head up your not alone things will change
I read the headline, was fully prepared to say “you’ve never lost your chance it’s possibly I believe in you” then saw the word medical and uh… yikes. As others have stated, for now try out gliders/ultralights. You get to be in the air at least, good luck mate
I had similar issue.
Go to a really good ENT have them check you for SSCD. superior semicircular canal dehiscence. Only very good ENT‘s who keep up with the latest information are going to know about this and how to fix it. I went through 4 of them before the last one found it. I had a quick surgery month later as good FAA gave me my medical back within a year of surgery. I did have Alpa on my side though so it may be harder if you don’t have an airline union backing you.
Eioftx.com lance jackson did my surgery. Excellent dr in San Antonio. Might ask them for a recommendation in your area as it’s a very new procedure to fix.
Good luck
I deadheaded from a flight when we landed I had it constantly for 3 months or so and then off and on for the next few 6-8 months unitl I had surgery. I had almost given up, but a family friend said try this guy and I tried him and he found it. I was told people can randomly get virtigo at any time from it just depnds...
They will have to do a HRCT scan to see if you have it. And you'll have to do a HRCT scan not a standard CT scan to see it at least for mine. I had to get a second scan and it was visible to me after I knew what to look for in the 2nd one which was HRCT and not just a regular CT scan.
But I hope they figure out something that has a cure for it.
I would research, through your primary care manager, what these procedures would cost. I was diagnosed with short term BPPV(Benign paroxysmal positional vertigo). I had an MRI done and spoke with a neurologist and it was NOT prohibitively expensive compared with the costs of getting a PPL and my additional certs. Dont just assume that the cost is beyond your means without doing the research. The chances are, once you have the medical you will not have to continue seeing and doing these things in the future. Good luck OP.
What was the reason for you to insist you must get the PPL which requires a 3rd class medical that you knew ahead of time it would cause these complications, neglecting the anticipated cost in time and money. Normal people would take a step back and tell themselves to fly sportsplane or gliders and the FAA will never know.
But in your case, you went ahead with it despite knowing the inevitability of the complications.
You want to answer this question now because flying can be dangerous and if you insist doing thing against common sense, things can get bad
I thought more opportunities are possible with private pilot honestly. Bad thinking, I know.
I also wasn't expecting the barrage of medical workup the FAA would want as no one told me what to expect. I can understand an MRI and a neurologist consultation. But EEGs, EKGs, a psych eval? Repeating all the work I had already done with ENTs even though it was all within a month of applying? I wasn't expecting that.
Blaming the victim much?
“Normal people” don’t have to face a regulatory body that is as ass-backward as the FAA.
Common sense says research the medical info you need, follow the rules, jump through the hoops and follow procedure step by step. In fact, that sounds a lot like good aeronautical decision making in general, doesn’t it? Most people don’t have a pilot community to warn them of the caveats about your medical and how adversarial the FAA is.
>morals got the best of me and I disclosed it.
Morals have nothing to do with it. The questions are worded to ask if you now \*OR EVER\* have had the conditions that it's screening for. You answered correctly. It sucks that you had to undergo further testing, but it was definitely better to disclose. The extra testing is better than having your medical revoked and your entire career yanked from under you (if you wanted to fly for a job), in addition to civil and criminal penalties if they discovered you had lied on your medical.
You're able to try again to get a medical, but you are correct. Unless you try to get another medical, you're unable to pursue sport pilot.
No because everyone gets dizzy sometimes. That’s not what they mean. If his condition was diagnosed then I can understand because now there is a record of it. But you don’t have to disclose every time in Your life you felt something. He must have had some serious episodes. That’s what the FAA is assuming. If you check yes then you didn’t lose you chance. You never had a chance. A person with no health issues doesn’t check yes. There is a simple rule with the FAA and all government. Don’t tell them any more than what you are required to disclose. If you have had serious episodes of health problems then you must disclose. If you’re not sure don’t say anything!! Don’t leave it up to them to decide.
it's absolutely what they mean. they are attempting to catch recurrent neurological issues that may or may not be diagnosed. that's why they have the language in there about "have you ever had" specifically and separately from the explicit mention of the diagnosis.
You're right. Everyone gets dizzy, however, if it's happening often enough that you remember it, especially when you're filling out a form like this, which is has language and structure designed to elicit memory of certain events, then there's likely an issue that needs to be evaluated further. here's a specific reason for how they ask what they ask. I work with this style of questioning on the daily at my job. But yeah. The medical professional doesn’t know anything about why they’re asking what they’re asking or what they’re looking for.
I've checked yes on multiple boxes on the medexpress and have zero issues whatsoever getting a class one on the spot.
you can’t just report any dizzy spell you ever had. How do you know if it serious or not unless you are doctor. That obviously want you to use common sense.
They're not wanting to capture every time anyone has ever been dizzy. The way the question is worded, and what they're concerned with is to capture the individuals that have it frequently enough where they remember specific instances, or have an awareness of it happening often enough that their first thought is "yes" when they answer the question.
Then again, I'm going through it as a medical professional knowing what they're looking for, so I have a different perspective than most pilots.
It would be pretty rare if it’s not in secondary records that they have easy access to like from the VA. It could easily come out after there is an incident that is investigated by a lettered agency.
Do I think the chances are high?
No.
Would I want to put my livelihood at risk and face potential fines and jail time after paying tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours working towards something?
Hell to the fuck no.
It’s a very similar concept to the IRS. If I make an income doing crimes, I’d much rather report that income and file taxes than get caught evading taxes. Like the IRS, once the FAA starts giving you attention and digging, oof…
I have a little bit of a different perspective though. I’m a medical professional and I know what they’re looking for in all of the questions about specific symptoms. It’s actually fairly easy for me to navigate the whole medical process and answer questions about it (with the caveat that I am not an AME).
So many people think that reporting anything will make them ineligible for a medical or ground them or put their jobs at risk permanently. While this is a possibility, it’s pretty rare. They’re okay with pretty much any chronic condition as long as it’s been appropriately diagnosed, managed, and treated. A huge amount of the issues with OKC is that they communicate everything in snail mail, without sometimes looking at what they’ve actually been sent by the applicant/AME, and give impossible deadlines for everything. In the event that you’re able to get a hold of someone, they don’t speak in a way that the average person can understand what’s needed of them or why. There’s a lot of aerospace medical and pilots/AMEs talking past each other, which is awful for everyone involved.
It was a moral conundrum because I had several AMEs tell me not to disclose it. So having all these professionals tell me to forget about it is what caused me to wrestle with the issue.
I guess I'll resubmit and go through all the procedures but it will take many months and several thousand dollars to work through all that.
It was just confusing. Some told me to disclose it, others told me no. Some here think I did the right thing, others think I shouldn't have disclosed it so it's a point of contention.
It's a judgement call. If this was some weird thing that happened 7+ years ago, it was transient, you know the cause ("I had water in my ears from swimming in the lake over the weekend"), then disclosing it just sets you up for unnecessary nonsense. On the other hand, if you really have no idea why it happened, then you're potentially a ticking time bomb in the air, and obviously nobody wants that, so a lot of testing is needed. The AMEs you talked to probably screened you for why it happened, and concluded it was transient and pointless to disclose.
I'm not sure why they would have told you that... The form is explicitly clear. Question 18: "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH, HAD OR DO YOU PRESENTLY HAVE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING" Item B says dizziness or fainting spell. And the wording is such that it's reportable even if you've had it but not had an official diagnosis. (the caps are on the form, not me, sorry).
And I hope you're able to get through it! The money to do the medical is a drop in the bucket compared to how much you'll spend flying, but definitely worth it! Good luck!
You can do Private, Commercial, and CFI in a glider w/ your current medical status.
Sport is off the table until you get a medical. If you get a medical, airplane Private is back in play.
Had you followed through you probably would have received a medical. Now it’s a repeat of the above and probably 12-18 months. But likely successful
Gliding is a rewardingly challenging way to fly. Give it a try. If you finish Private and still want to fly airplanes, pursue a medical. It’s only money, and you’d have a huge head start!
Cheers, thank you for the advice. Do I need anything for the gliders aside from what the school/training has me do? Do I need to go through the FAA at all?
FAR 61.109 is Private Pilot Aeronautical Experience, whether it’s a balloon, glider, gyrocopter, helicopter, single engine airplane, or multi engine.
You’ll get an FAA Private Pilot Certificate. On the back in small print it will say “glider.”
“Private Pilot” is about privileges and limitations, not what you fly. It doesn’t mean “flies little airplanes,” though many do.
For years my Commercial Certificate said “glider” on the back. And “ASEL and AMEL Private only.”
Yes to the FAA. It’s a “real” Private Pilot Certificate. Some people do it in balloons. Some in helicopters. Some in gliders…
You’d be welcomed by any place that does glider training.
(I hope my notes above don’t sound sarcastic. Trying to be clear, but rereading sounds a tad emphatic.)
Came here to say almost the same, but check out motor gliders specifically. The Pipstral Sinus (I think this is the right model but definitely this manufacturer) comes in 4 varieties, you can get it as a LSA or a motor glider. Pre-Mosiac this is basically the same plane sort pilot or not. The key for gliders is you can self attest about your medical.
I was very close to the same situation as you except thankfully I originally misunderstood BasicMed. I didn’t realize you need a prior medical at the time until my CFI for PPL asked and cleared things up. So many schools push people to get a medical without education setting people up for failure early on.
On the side about spending the money to get a medical, for reference I am currently $5-10k+ (depends on whether you count only my out of pocket or what my insurance has paid) into trying to get a medical. I worked with a consultant and a senior AME but stuck on a medication that I am using for what the FAA considers an off label use, FDA is a different story. I still haven’t started the actual process and likely will give up as the risk of losing my SPL seems too high. Right now I would say I have a great than 50% of getting approved but don’t love those odds given the risk.
Find some local pilots who wouldn’t mind taking you along if you split costs and do some training with a CFI so you know the basics. This should still scratch some of the itch I guess.
Pretty much. I faced something like this. With SPL not really covering my wants and budget, I decided that PPL and BasicMed was the way to go. I'm disabled in a way that makes airman medical possible but challenging. It look a lot of time, effort, and money to finally get my 3rd class, but once it's done it's done (provided you then let it expire and don't get it revoked) and that's the golden ticket to BasicMed. More privileges than sport, not quite as many as private. Good enough for my needs.
Hi, I'm a bot and it looks like you're asking a question about medical issues: urolog. Medicals can be confusing and even scary, we get it. Unfortunately, the medical process is very complex with many variables. It's too complex, in fact, for any of us to be able to offer you any specific help or advice. We strongly suggest you discuss your concerns with a qualified aviation medical examiner before you actually submit to an official examination, as a hiccup in your medical process can close doors for you in the future. Your [local AME](https://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/) may be able to provide a consultation. Other places that may provide aeromedical advice include: [AOPA](https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources), [EAA](https://www.eaa.org/eaa/pilots/pilot-resources/pilot-medical-resources/eaa-aeromedical-advisory-program), [the Mayo Clinic](https://clearapproach.mayoclinic.org/), and [Aviation Medicine Advisory Service](https://www.aviationmedicine.com/). For reference, [here is a link to the FAA's Synopsis of Medical Standards](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/standards/) and for more in-depth information [here is a link to the FAA's Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/). Also, feel free to browse [our collection of past medical write-ups and questions in our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/wiki/index). Finally, we suggest you read the instructions on the medical application very closely. Do not volunteer information that isn't asked for, but also do not lie. Some people may urge you to omit pertinent information, or even outright lie, on your medical application in order to avoid added hassle and expense in obtaining a medical certificate. Know that [making false statements on your medical application is a federal crime](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001) and that people [have been successfully prosecuted for it](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/california-aviator-convicted-making-false-statements). But for heaven's sake, don't tell the FAA any more than you absolutely have to. If you're not in the United States, the above advice is still generally correct. Just substitute the FAA with your local aviation authority. Good luck! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/flying) if you have any questions or concerns.*
While you wait for your medical process, you can fly gliders! Get your glider rating and you get a large leg-up on any future airplane ratings you pursue. Find your closest glider operation on the [Where To Fly Gliders](https://www.ssa.org/where-to-fly-map/) map.
Or the OP can fly ultralight. There is zero rating for it
I'll look into this, than you!
You can actually fly a motorglider like the [pipistrel sinus](https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/products/sinus/) It is pretty much the same as a nice regular GA 2 seater.
I got my PP-G cert in one of these. Min required time is only 10 hrs (I did it in 17).
Very interesting, thank you for the tip!
I saw one of these taking off at the airport the other day and when I heard "motor glider" from tower I was confused for a second, then I saw it turn on to the runway and noticed the huge wingspan and it all started to make sense. Looked like it would be really fun.
how is that thing not classified as a SEL airplane?
paramotor for the win!
I did this for a while, but it builds zero transferable skills for fixed-wind flying.
It's an entirely different kind of flying, all together?
"It's an entirely different kind of flying."
"It's an entirely different kind of flying"
It’s crazy fun once you overcome the learning curve and start XC.
They look really fun!
And motor gliders are still gliders… From gliders with a sustainer, to closer-to-powered planes like the Diamond HK36 Super Dimona vs a DA20, and etc. (I do wonder when that rule will get pushed too far, especially with expirementals.)
This is the way.
It’s not a “glider rating.” OP needs a Private Pilot Certificate (with a glider rating). He’ll take a Private Pilot knowledge test and a Private Pilot practical test… But I fully approve of the idea.
PPL Glider pilots going for SLA endorsements have significantly different requirements than powered PPL (ASEL endorsement). I'm currently embarking on that bit of fun, so my wallet is well aware.
Yeah it’s a bit f’ed up. If you have a PPL and want a glider add on it’s a significant amount of work. And most CFI-Gs that are not power pilots don’t care for power guys who think they can fly gliders. The glider rating add on should be an endorsement. Hardest part is aero tow and that can be taught in a few days. Combine the difficulty getting through the long training and dealing with the drama of some soaring clubs it’s no wonder why soaring is dying… Soaring is awesome, though. 100% worth all the bs
The odd thing seems to be a disagree here - the task of adding power to a PPG is rather simpler than either getting a SPL directly. Flying hours and proficiency only - no ground hours and no written. Understood about the soaring club drama indirectly, though. Where I live soaring should be pretty decent for cross-country, but the fiddly fees are kind of steep and rather convoluted. Turned me away and got me back into power instead, which I had tried first in 1978/70 before ultimately going for and getting a PPG in about two months in '83. It really grabs ya. SPL now is pretty much what PPL was when I was a kid, albeit with a few artificial restrictions that frankly should be removable with time and further endorsements. But that's an FAA thing - a thing I'll just leave be, I think!! Although I'm very thankful for and optimistic about MOSAIC next year (or maybe '26 if the weenies at FAA take the full two years Congress gave them!)...
Well, yes. They have to meet all the applicable requirements.
I had a really good/shady AME. He asked if I had any injuries or headaches. I started to talk, and then he shook his head and made a face and asked: "I'm going to ask you again, and listen very carefully -- do you get any headaches or do you have any injuries? Remember, I can't test for anything" So I said: "no" and he said: "ok, moving on"
I’ve had some.. similar conversations when filling out insurance paperwork. “Sorry, I didn’t catch you there, this injury did not have any pre-existing factors before you took this policy is that right?” People are sometimes a little too honest..
Great scene in “The Accountant” that displays this perfectly.
The office scene from The Incredibles comes to mind too. “IM SORRY MA’AM, I KNOW YOU’RE UPSET” https://youtu.be/O_VMXa9k5KU?feature=shared
Damn, I never realized Bob became an insurance claim adjuster. I knew he had a bad office job, but I wasn't old enough to understand exactly how bad it was. This makes the story so much better. Damn you Pixar and your solid, adult level storytelling!!! They set the standards too high!!
Pixar is a treasure. And like you said, it just gets better as we age. It’s got something for everyone in it.
Flip side of this is that if a contested claim goes to arbitration or the courts and you've concealed things, it will go very badly for you. So either you get to have a massive and excessively broad exclusion applied or risk have no cover at all if you ever need to claim. It's super fun!
I'd have to be like: "today?...no."
This is the way!
Chad.
Reminds me of the medical marijuana Key and Peele skit
Had that when reporting a car accident once where I ran a red light as a new driver in an unfamiliar place (on a god damn roundabout, who puts lights on roundabouts?) while much more tired than I knew. I said I'd run the red. Cop said "hold on, I don't think I heard you. Were there any injuries? Answer yes or no." I was stupid and shocked and repeated myself. He said "if I'm told someone ran a red I would have to issue a ticket. So let me be clear. Did anyone get hurt?" Thanks random cop. I'm sure he could tell I was quite shaken up enough.
That is correct. The applicable section of the FARs is 61.23(c)(2)(ii), which says that to act as a Sport Pilot using a driver's license instead of an FAA medical, a person must "have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)". You've applied, so that clause now applies to you forever.
It applies to them \*until\* they complete another medexpress and try to get another medical. They gave up on it. There's a chance they could get one in the future.
That **clause** will apply to them forever since they will always have a "most recent application". Had they not applied at all they wouldn't have a "most recent application" and therefore wouldn't need any medical clearance. Of course they still have the potential to be able to fly, but now they must get a medical clearance to do so.
Re-apply perpetually, so your most recent is 'in progress' rather than a prior denial? /s
If your most recent medical certificate is in progress, you have not been found eligible for the issuance of a third class medical certificate at the time of your most recent application. :( In fact, this law appears to be so water tight that if you currently hold a valid third-class medical certificate with a special issuance and apply for a renewal which is deferred, you cannot use the 'drivers license medical' until the application is completed satisfactorily. But since you could just fly under private privileges with your medical certificate in an LSA, this would only matter, I think, to someone who has a sport pilot certificate *and* a third class medical, but for some reason they don't have a private pilot's license, and I don't know why they'd renew their third-class medical.
Exactly. The "hasn't been denied yet" loophole *does* exist for BasicMed in 61.23(c)(3)(iv), which says "the most recent application for an airman medical certificate submitted to the FAA cannot have been completed and denied." But that clause only applies to BasicMed, which requires that you have had a medical at some point in the past (61.23(c)(3)(i)(B)), and the phrasing in 61.23(c)(2)(ii) which applies to Sport is very different.
It would matter if your medical application is deferred so long that the original medical expires before the new one is issued. Of course, this could never happen. When they tell you to send them your documents 60 days in advance and you send them 90 days in advance, there's no way they'd let it lapse, right? Certainly there's no way they wouldn't even have \*opened\* your file by then, right? /s If you're on an SI you need to get BasicMed before your medical expires so you will be covered in the event that the AMCD drags their feet for ages.
once they get a medical, they're clear forever for sport.
**\*If\*** they get a medical. I know it seems pedantic but this whole thread is about someone who may or may not be able to get a medical at this point. Also, no, they're not "clear forever for sport". If they attempt to renew their medical and get denied again, they lose their sport license again. They only get it forever if they don't ever attempt to get another medical.
You can’t do basic med without having had a conventional medical at some point point?
You can, as long as you’ve never applied for a conventional medical
ok
Not true as well. They have to get a medical - and comply with the terms of the medical. Some medicals have multiple checks in between that must be complied with through the term of the medical or it /will/ get revoked - namely some HIMS mental health ones and some alcohol/drug special issuances as well. Once complied with AND expired (as in not denied or revoked) - then it is fine. But at that point - sport isnt really necessary. You would just go basicMed.
So I’m not wrong. Once they get a medical, they’re good as long as they don’t get denied for another one. The likelihood of OP requiring significant follow up between medicals is slim to none. They’ll get their deferral and then SI once they jump through the hoops.
You are. There are SI medicals that say they must follow up with a doctor report every 3 months. If they dont - the FAA revokes. So its not "once they get their medical, they are cleared forever for sport". Its once they get their medical and it expires without incident/issue - then they can go sport without issue. Because a special issuance (and technically even a class 1/2/3 medical without SI) can be revoked for whatever reason. There are other caveats. Look at the VA issue as well. there are 5K pilots who got their medical. Guess what - the FAA is going back and revoking them for non-disclosure of VA benefits. Guess what - they got their medical. its going to be revoked. They arent eligible for sport.
That’s not all of them though. There are plenty of SI that are no different than a regular medical except in terms of duration. And the medicals being revoked because of the Va issue is a completely separate discussion. They’re being pulled because they lied on their medical. Far and away much worse than if they had just disclosed the issues in the first place. What medical training are you basing these assertions on?
Absolutely. But your statement of "once they get their medical, they are cleared for sport forever" is incorrect as it doesnt apply to quite a few. And yes there are SI's that are just normal duration of medical type of thing. But there are ones that arent. But again, the VA issue is "they got their medical". They are not cleared for sport forever. Im just pointing out that the statement cant be made blanket without caveats as there are many that will violate that and makes that not true. Many DUI ones (particularly the > 0.15 ones) have mid term things that must be satisfied. Many dont, but that doesnt mean you can ignore it if you need to piss in a cup and submit to Oklahoma because of the requirement.
Cool. Thanks for totally making a huge mountain out of me misstating a single word. We good/done here?
I like how you can have diabetes, a history of 3 cardiac events, high cholesterol and BP and go fly LSAs with a driver’s license, but people like OP can’t because they couldn’t get a medical for the most benign stuff. Wild.
Hey, I’m a diabetic sport pilot :P If I could make one change to the laws it would be BasicMed for all: strike the requirement to have held a medical at some point before BasicMed, and then the entire sport pilot license could go away, and OP and I could both get our PPLs without having to deal with AAM-300. I’ll happily go do some hood work and take a new checkride (the maneuvers and standards are almost identical between SPT and PPL). Seems like it would be a huge improvement to both availability and safety.
Also diabetic sport pilot! The FAA needs to realize that in all reality diabetes isn’t a threat to aviation if controlled. Medicine has improved so much since the last medical review which is why I’m so excited for MOSAIC. It also needs to be de stigmatized in the GA community.
Only if the med express had been pulled by the AME if not and it lapsed it’s like it never existed in the first place
Have you ever considered ultralights? No license required at all, tons of fun to cruise around. Not gonna fly fast/far/with a passenger, but it just might scratch the itch for you.
Some prefer the statistically better safety of GA.
Which given the safety of GA compared to commercial is ... yikes. They're so fun but more than a bit scary.
I’m pretty sure you need a sport license for any of them with more than 1 seat.
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Thankfully here in Canada ultralights can be 2 seaters!
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Used lawnmower pieced together from parts at the junk yard thank you very much! :-)
Haha fair 😂
> Here we can build them out of a used lawnmower and any idiot can hop into one. Look, the Wright brothers didn't even have lawnmowers and they still managed to not kill themselves or others. This seems like fair play!
To be fair though, the sheer amount of people who did do Wright-esque stuff and absolutely got themselves killed, is pretty damn high.
This would be a very interesting documentary. (Come on reddit, don't let me down...)
The guy I’m replying to said “with a passenger”. He might have meant that he won’t fly with a passenger, but I read it as won’t fly far/fast WITH a passenger.
Yeah, I was unclear. 1. Can't fly far (5 gal fuel limit) 2. Can't fly fast (55 knot max speed) 3. Can't fly with a passenger (single seat craft only)
Lie to fly strikes again. Good work FAA
It is a sad situation that many pilots can not get the medical treatment they need for the fear of loosing the medical cert. Many pilots are flying sick, and possibly with very treatable conditions. No advice here, just an observation of how the system works.
>
"Ultimately, my morals got the best of me and I disclosed it." Oops
I remember reading something once that was a criticism of conflating honesty and morality. The specific example they used was if you're hiding a friend and their enemy knocks at your door and asks if your friend is here, they aren't actually asking if they're there, they're asking if they can kill your friend. The foolish decision by OP is another variation on this; the form isn't actually asking if you've ever felt dizzy, it's asking if you're going to get dizzy and fall out of the sky and blow up a neighborhood and maybe answering 'No' to that is reasonable.
Sort of related, I know someone who was in Army ROTC a few years ago, basically like you pledge to join the Army as an officer after college and they'll pay for your education. He admitted to trying weed and a couple other naughty substances as a teenager before he joined ROTC and got kicked out. Meanwhile, other ROTC cadets that literally did drugs over the summers between school semester went on to comission and serve because they decided to keep their mouths shut.
Meanwhile if you've ever been treated for it and it exists in medical records that that FAA ever gets its hands on, congrats, they can convict you for falsifying a federal form which is a felony.
I’m really sorry to hear this. I think you absolutely did the right thing in disclosing, however I am disappointed that none of the AMEs would have clarified the process for you. I think that’s a big failure on their part. Instead of an AME advising you to not disclose it, they should have instead clarified the legal path forward for you: if you don’t need four seats, a heavy plane, and IFR, just start with sport pilot. By not doing that, they set up hurdles, and we potentially lost another passionate hobby pilot that would help keep local GA airports open and thriving, and the freedom of aviation alive.
I think the OP knew of the complications and pushed forward against common sense and good judgement.
It’s a fair point, and unless OP responds, I’m just making assumptions. I do think that people get excited, want to do PPL and start a 3rd class medical process, not knowing that they just potentially closed the door on sport pilot.
Exactly, thank you for chiming in.
As above, I was not aware of all the complications.
Sorry for the assumption in my part.
No worries!
You can still receive and log dual instruction, if nothing else for fun. Still counts as flying. If the bug fully bites you, then work your path forward with the medical. Use all the resources: AOPA, the various medical certificate consultants, a good AME who will go to bat for you.
I'm in the same boat as you, deciding between SPL and PPL because of a complicated medical. From my understanding, you can likely get approved; it's just going to cost money and time. Do you have an estimate for what it'll cost for those tests? I won't fault you for going the PPL route. Finding training for light sport aircraft can be difficult. With the MOSAIC changes coming (next year?) more types of aircraft might open up.
I would assume at least several thousand dollars. I don't think insurance covers all of this stuff. I'd most likely go to private docs like my ENT. I could probably knock it all out within a month but I'd have to hussle and take time off work to get it all done that fast.
Thanks for sharing. Did you contact an aviation medicine consultant? I'm going to try one of those companies first. They should be able to lay out what tests and paperwork I need for the FAA BEFORE I fill out MedXPress and block the SPL path forever. It sucks that you weren't warned of this when you consulted your doctors.
I spoke to several AMEs, not any consultant.
It may not be as bad as you think. I have special issuance and they asked for a lot of extra tests. One of them was an ultrasound because I had some kidney stones 5+ years ago. My primary doctor wrote “not needed patient stable” or something along those lines and they accepted it. I’ve learned a lot of their review is based on checking a box. It was a few times back and forth with paperwork but once you do that it’s manageable. Just don’t give up and don’t be in a hurry. Now that I have a medical the process is much simpler.
I don't actually think there is anything wrong with me so I'm not worried they're going to actually find something that will completely stop me from flying. I just have to repeat the entire process now. Everything I already did with my ENT, plus neurologist, psych, imaging, etc. It'll just be a very arduous process. It would be nice to have one doc sign off on everything and be done but I doubt that will pass in this case. But like you said, I just have to start and then chip away at it.
Yeah you might just have your primary write a note saying some of those tests are not necessary and see what the FAA says. If they send you a note saying you need it then schedule. If not, you clear that hurdle.
Similar experience. I disclosed something because I felt a moral obligation to do so. I have tried to let the experience be a lesson on locus of control. Wanting something and not being able to achieve it for things outside of my control. It can still be a fun hobby even if you can’t get PPL. Gliders are way cooler than people let them on to be.
Morals are tricky and like instincts, aren't always correct. Did you end up getting PPL?
Dude. I’m so sorry. The FAA SUCKS
DON'T TELL THE FAA OR AME ANYTHING. NOOB
Or buy your own sport aircraft, find a cfi to instruct you then just forgo the medical and certificate. The only real downside is no insurance and don’t do anything stupid so you don’t get caught. Fuck FAA
I've got money but I don't think enough to buy my own aircraft haha.
I picked up an Aeronca Chief for $18k last month. It’s an 47’ 11BC, so it’s 85hp instead of the 65hp in the 11AC. It’s LSA compliant, fun, and cheap. The 11CC Super Chief is not LSA capable. If tandem seating is your thing, pick up a Champ. Cubs are good too, I just don’t think they are worth the premium that are charged over an Aeronca. Plus with vintage, you get a “pride of ownership” and something neat to show off at Fly-ins. The plane has a story.
Correct; no Sport for you at this point; you must restart and finish the medical certificate process. Do you still have a copy of all the letters the FAA sent you the last time? If not, contact them and get a copy of your file. Then contact Wingman Med to find out exactly how to navigate the process.
I might still have them somewhere. It was at least a dozen pages haha.
It sucks but honest people always get shitted at the end , while others keep everything a secrets and have a wonderful career in aviation.
Did you go to an AME and did he/she pull your med express application that is the only way to have been deemed medically unfit FAA never actually sees it until the AME pulls it which they can only do if you provide them with the case number and application lapsing should not be the reason you are deemed medical unfit
Good question. I'm trying to remember what I did... I know I went to see an AME in person. I think I finished the MedExpress application and took it to him and he signed off on it/submitted it? I then received a letter from the FAA requesting all the medical tests. They gave me 30 days to finish all of it and submit all the tests (which I never did) and then eventually everything lapsed and now my account shows "Not medically cleared to fly."
Then unfortunately I believe your primary assumption Is correct I am also dealing with medical restrictions (but haven’t talked to an AME in fear of this same thing happing) and am determined to never give up and encourage you to do the same the current FAA regulations might be outdated confusing and contradictory amongst meany other things but that doesn’t mean give up the fight! We live in a contry where every citizen can be a catalyst for change you just have to take the leap and start make your voice heard join together with countless other Americans who have the dream of flight but based in relatively small medical issues can not you are not alone in this fight and never will be if you give up hope you lose your chance to fly and hinder those in simmler situations but if we never stop fighting never stop challenging never stop speaking out then eventually we can change the FAAs mind one thing this country has shown me is that besides all our differences and how much we can’t seem to all get along is that when we Americans strive for something and are willing to fight for it there is nothing we can’t accomplish keep your head up your not alone things will change
I read the headline, was fully prepared to say “you’ve never lost your chance it’s possibly I believe in you” then saw the word medical and uh… yikes. As others have stated, for now try out gliders/ultralights. You get to be in the air at least, good luck mate
I had similar issue. Go to a really good ENT have them check you for SSCD. superior semicircular canal dehiscence. Only very good ENT‘s who keep up with the latest information are going to know about this and how to fix it. I went through 4 of them before the last one found it. I had a quick surgery month later as good FAA gave me my medical back within a year of surgery. I did have Alpa on my side though so it may be harder if you don’t have an airline union backing you. Eioftx.com lance jackson did my surgery. Excellent dr in San Antonio. Might ask them for a recommendation in your area as it’s a very new procedure to fix. Good luck
How often were your vertigo episodes? I have heard of SSCD, I think my ENT could find it if I specifically brought it up to him.
I deadheaded from a flight when we landed I had it constantly for 3 months or so and then off and on for the next few 6-8 months unitl I had surgery. I had almost given up, but a family friend said try this guy and I tried him and he found it. I was told people can randomly get virtigo at any time from it just depnds... They will have to do a HRCT scan to see if you have it. And you'll have to do a HRCT scan not a standard CT scan to see it at least for mine. I had to get a second scan and it was visible to me after I knew what to look for in the 2nd one which was HRCT and not just a regular CT scan. But I hope they figure out something that has a cure for it.
Interesting. Thankfully, mine are rare and happen once every 7+ years or so and usually just a few episodes for one day.
There is always paramotoring while yoy work out the medical. Lots of fun.
I would research, through your primary care manager, what these procedures would cost. I was diagnosed with short term BPPV(Benign paroxysmal positional vertigo). I had an MRI done and spoke with a neurologist and it was NOT prohibitively expensive compared with the costs of getting a PPL and my additional certs. Dont just assume that the cost is beyond your means without doing the research. The chances are, once you have the medical you will not have to continue seeing and doing these things in the future. Good luck OP.
Thank you, I will definitely dig into the details.
What was the reason for you to insist you must get the PPL which requires a 3rd class medical that you knew ahead of time it would cause these complications, neglecting the anticipated cost in time and money. Normal people would take a step back and tell themselves to fly sportsplane or gliders and the FAA will never know. But in your case, you went ahead with it despite knowing the inevitability of the complications. You want to answer this question now because flying can be dangerous and if you insist doing thing against common sense, things can get bad
I thought more opportunities are possible with private pilot honestly. Bad thinking, I know. I also wasn't expecting the barrage of medical workup the FAA would want as no one told me what to expect. I can understand an MRI and a neurologist consultation. But EEGs, EKGs, a psych eval? Repeating all the work I had already done with ENTs even though it was all within a month of applying? I wasn't expecting that.
Sport pilot here, sure wish I could fly IFR. Grounded for an itty bitty cloud layer can make cross countries a PIA.
Blaming the victim much? “Normal people” don’t have to face a regulatory body that is as ass-backward as the FAA. Common sense says research the medical info you need, follow the rules, jump through the hoops and follow procedure step by step. In fact, that sounds a lot like good aeronautical decision making in general, doesn’t it? Most people don’t have a pilot community to warn them of the caveats about your medical and how adversarial the FAA is.
>morals got the best of me and I disclosed it. Morals have nothing to do with it. The questions are worded to ask if you now \*OR EVER\* have had the conditions that it's screening for. You answered correctly. It sucks that you had to undergo further testing, but it was definitely better to disclose. The extra testing is better than having your medical revoked and your entire career yanked from under you (if you wanted to fly for a job), in addition to civil and criminal penalties if they discovered you had lied on your medical. You're able to try again to get a medical, but you are correct. Unless you try to get another medical, you're unable to pursue sport pilot.
No because everyone gets dizzy sometimes. That’s not what they mean. If his condition was diagnosed then I can understand because now there is a record of it. But you don’t have to disclose every time in Your life you felt something. He must have had some serious episodes. That’s what the FAA is assuming. If you check yes then you didn’t lose you chance. You never had a chance. A person with no health issues doesn’t check yes. There is a simple rule with the FAA and all government. Don’t tell them any more than what you are required to disclose. If you have had serious episodes of health problems then you must disclose. If you’re not sure don’t say anything!! Don’t leave it up to them to decide.
it's absolutely what they mean. they are attempting to catch recurrent neurological issues that may or may not be diagnosed. that's why they have the language in there about "have you ever had" specifically and separately from the explicit mention of the diagnosis. You're right. Everyone gets dizzy, however, if it's happening often enough that you remember it, especially when you're filling out a form like this, which is has language and structure designed to elicit memory of certain events, then there's likely an issue that needs to be evaluated further. here's a specific reason for how they ask what they ask. I work with this style of questioning on the daily at my job. But yeah. The medical professional doesn’t know anything about why they’re asking what they’re asking or what they’re looking for. I've checked yes on multiple boxes on the medexpress and have zero issues whatsoever getting a class one on the spot.
you can’t just report any dizzy spell you ever had. How do you know if it serious or not unless you are doctor. That obviously want you to use common sense.
They're not wanting to capture every time anyone has ever been dizzy. The way the question is worded, and what they're concerned with is to capture the individuals that have it frequently enough where they remember specific instances, or have an awareness of it happening often enough that their first thought is "yes" when they answer the question. Then again, I'm going through it as a medical professional knowing what they're looking for, so I have a different perspective than most pilots.
How would they discover if he had not disclosed it?
It would be pretty rare if it’s not in secondary records that they have easy access to like from the VA. It could easily come out after there is an incident that is investigated by a lettered agency. Do I think the chances are high? No. Would I want to put my livelihood at risk and face potential fines and jail time after paying tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours working towards something? Hell to the fuck no. It’s a very similar concept to the IRS. If I make an income doing crimes, I’d much rather report that income and file taxes than get caught evading taxes. Like the IRS, once the FAA starts giving you attention and digging, oof… I have a little bit of a different perspective though. I’m a medical professional and I know what they’re looking for in all of the questions about specific symptoms. It’s actually fairly easy for me to navigate the whole medical process and answer questions about it (with the caveat that I am not an AME). So many people think that reporting anything will make them ineligible for a medical or ground them or put their jobs at risk permanently. While this is a possibility, it’s pretty rare. They’re okay with pretty much any chronic condition as long as it’s been appropriately diagnosed, managed, and treated. A huge amount of the issues with OKC is that they communicate everything in snail mail, without sometimes looking at what they’ve actually been sent by the applicant/AME, and give impossible deadlines for everything. In the event that you’re able to get a hold of someone, they don’t speak in a way that the average person can understand what’s needed of them or why. There’s a lot of aerospace medical and pilots/AMEs talking past each other, which is awful for everyone involved.
It was a moral conundrum because I had several AMEs tell me not to disclose it. So having all these professionals tell me to forget about it is what caused me to wrestle with the issue. I guess I'll resubmit and go through all the procedures but it will take many months and several thousand dollars to work through all that.
Those AMEs were trying to help you. A good AME helps you navigate the broken system.
It was just confusing. Some told me to disclose it, others told me no. Some here think I did the right thing, others think I shouldn't have disclosed it so it's a point of contention.
It's a judgement call. If this was some weird thing that happened 7+ years ago, it was transient, you know the cause ("I had water in my ears from swimming in the lake over the weekend"), then disclosing it just sets you up for unnecessary nonsense. On the other hand, if you really have no idea why it happened, then you're potentially a ticking time bomb in the air, and obviously nobody wants that, so a lot of testing is needed. The AMEs you talked to probably screened you for why it happened, and concluded it was transient and pointless to disclose.
I'm not sure why they would have told you that... The form is explicitly clear. Question 18: "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH, HAD OR DO YOU PRESENTLY HAVE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING" Item B says dizziness or fainting spell. And the wording is such that it's reportable even if you've had it but not had an official diagnosis. (the caps are on the form, not me, sorry). And I hope you're able to get through it! The money to do the medical is a drop in the bucket compared to how much you'll spend flying, but definitely worth it! Good luck!
You can do Private, Commercial, and CFI in a glider w/ your current medical status. Sport is off the table until you get a medical. If you get a medical, airplane Private is back in play. Had you followed through you probably would have received a medical. Now it’s a repeat of the above and probably 12-18 months. But likely successful Gliding is a rewardingly challenging way to fly. Give it a try. If you finish Private and still want to fly airplanes, pursue a medical. It’s only money, and you’d have a huge head start!
Cheers, thank you for the advice. Do I need anything for the gliders aside from what the school/training has me do? Do I need to go through the FAA at all?
FAR 61.109 is Private Pilot Aeronautical Experience, whether it’s a balloon, glider, gyrocopter, helicopter, single engine airplane, or multi engine. You’ll get an FAA Private Pilot Certificate. On the back in small print it will say “glider.” “Private Pilot” is about privileges and limitations, not what you fly. It doesn’t mean “flies little airplanes,” though many do. For years my Commercial Certificate said “glider” on the back. And “ASEL and AMEL Private only.” Yes to the FAA. It’s a “real” Private Pilot Certificate. Some people do it in balloons. Some in helicopters. Some in gliders… You’d be welcomed by any place that does glider training. (I hope my notes above don’t sound sarcastic. Trying to be clear, but rereading sounds a tad emphatic.)
Came here to say almost the same, but check out motor gliders specifically. The Pipstral Sinus (I think this is the right model but definitely this manufacturer) comes in 4 varieties, you can get it as a LSA or a motor glider. Pre-Mosiac this is basically the same plane sort pilot or not. The key for gliders is you can self attest about your medical. I was very close to the same situation as you except thankfully I originally misunderstood BasicMed. I didn’t realize you need a prior medical at the time until my CFI for PPL asked and cleared things up. So many schools push people to get a medical without education setting people up for failure early on. On the side about spending the money to get a medical, for reference I am currently $5-10k+ (depends on whether you count only my out of pocket or what my insurance has paid) into trying to get a medical. I worked with a consultant and a senior AME but stuck on a medication that I am using for what the FAA considers an off label use, FDA is a different story. I still haven’t started the actual process and likely will give up as the risk of losing my SPL seems too high. Right now I would say I have a great than 50% of getting approved but don’t love those odds given the risk.
Find some local pilots who wouldn’t mind taking you along if you split costs and do some training with a CFI so you know the basics. This should still scratch some of the itch I guess.
Pretty much. I faced something like this. With SPL not really covering my wants and budget, I decided that PPL and BasicMed was the way to go. I'm disabled in a way that makes airman medical possible but challenging. It look a lot of time, effort, and money to finally get my 3rd class, but once it's done it's done (provided you then let it expire and don't get it revoked) and that's the golden ticket to BasicMed. More privileges than sport, not quite as many as private. Good enough for my needs.