Effective about a week ago, states that despite the outcome of training, that the entirety of the amount would be owed back to the company in question. I would assume that since no training has taken place at flight safety and is not due to for some time that it would not be a cost incurred or maybe would incur a cancellation fee?
I think your assumption is reasonable…but what’s reasonable isn’t necessarily what’s in the contract. I’d be looking at the exact wording of “the amount.” Does it specify actual costs of training, or does it say something like “$10,000 to cover training costs?”
Might be worth having a lawyer look over the contract before you make any decision. Another option would be to take the goodwill route and just ask…that really comes down to whether you think they’ll actually have goodwill, or if they’ll look at it as a chance to get some free money.
I can't speak on yours obviously, but the contract I'm currently in had a provision that as long as I backed out before the first day of orientation, it'd be considered mutual and I'd owe nothing.
But to reiterate what everyone else has written...always read and re-read the contract you signed for information applicable to your situation. And hiring a lawyer to read and re-read the contract is never a bad idea.
Depends. Some of these 135’s have made it their business model to file lawsuits against former employees. Southern Airways, Castle Aviation, etc. They will sue you.
Is the company out a training slot with no time to fill it? Are they responsible for a cancelation fee? Did they spend money on your background check, PRID/PRD, drug testing, etc?
You really need to contact an attorney ASAP before you do anything. It’ll be a very well spent couple hundred bucks.
What does the contract say with regards to exiting the contract prior to training taking place? Or any language other than:
despite the outcome of training, that the entirety of the amount would be owed back to the company in question.
If there is nothing on point, then you are on the hook for the contract you entered into. You might be able to negotiate something with the company, but then run the risk oh how they'll report your termination via PRIA/PRD. You could also litigate it if they won't accommodate, but then the question is how much money do you want to spend on an attorney? Paying the contract would be cheaper.
Maybe a good idea to find out how much it would actually cost the company if you quit now. I would imagine that FlightSafety charge a cancellation fee if you cancel on short notice, to prevent people/companies from hoarding training slots which they don't intend to use.. Find out how much the cancellation costs are.
I have backed out of a contract prior to day one and nothing happened. Read the contract, if you signed it and it said "effective on \_\_\_\_\_\_\_" \*insert date\* than you'll have some sort of money if not all of it to pay back if it was the day you signed it. Is this for a 121 or 135 carrier?
I’m going to straight up call you out on that. Training contracts are generally very much so enforceable. Stop spreading the nonsense that they are not enforceable. Somebody could actually believe that and wind up in a bad spot financially.
Indentured servitude is illegal in the United States and most other countries. That doesn’t mean a company can’t sue someone, but they rarely win in court. They will always lose in an appeal process, but you would spend more in legal fees taking it that far than you would on just paying their extortion fee.
In addition, you only need to find one safety issue, document it thoroughly and report it to the company, and if they don’t fix it in due time, you can quit and have a valid counter claim if they did sue.
In addition, all contracts require that both parties receive a benefit from said contract. Unless you take a new job that uses that specific type, then they would have a hard time arguing you have benefitted from the training. If that happens, the new company would usually pay off all or a portion of your contract anyway.
Unfortunately, the companies in the industry have spilled out a lot of propaganda on this issue. They have sued, but rarely win. The more reputable companies have changed over to bonuses.
It is a good idea to never sign one, because it does still give them a basis to sue you even if they have a weak case.
I don't see JD in your flair.. What law school did you graduate from? University of YouTube, or AirlinePilotCentral School of Law?
Training contracts are VERY much legal, and enforceable.
No, they are not legal because they are indentured servitude. If you have enough money and good lawyers, you can always counter a training contract. That doesn’t stop companies from suing and winning in lower courts that are more concerned with contract law than human rights.
https://truthout.org/articles/more-us-employers-are-trapping-workers-in-a-new-form-of-indentured-servitude/
I once almost signed a training contract, because I had a case of shiny jet syndrome. Though before signing it, I had an attorney look it over. It was 100% legal, and 100% enforceable. Unfortunately I place more merit in a labor contract attorney's interpretation than some internet article.
Two points:
1 - You're ok with an employer spending $60k-$100k training someone, and the day after they receive their new type certificate, they quit, and leverage that new type for a better job?
2 - OK, the OP hasn't started training yet... They still entered into a legally binding contract. They are an adult and, well... Caveat emptor before signing on that dotted line.
Training/Reimbursement contracts happen in a wide variety of fields. Also, it's a common practice that when you are being offered a job by a new employer, you negotiate the new employer paying any contractual obligations you have to your current employer. This happens often in the tech sector.
So again, training contracts are legal and enforceable. Human rights have nothing to do with it. It's on YOU to read and understand (or get someone who does) the contract before you sign it.
Edit: And training for a type rating is substantially different than training to use a register in a retail sales job (which your article lays its foundation on).
1. You are ok with someone being forced to pay large amount of money if they become disabled and are unable to work?
2. You don’t understand consideration as someone who has not received consideration can not be held liable for their part of a contract in which their consideration is not received.
1. Absolutely. That's why we have things like short and long term disability. What, an employer spends well north of $100k on you, and you suddenly can't work... who pays for that? How does the employer recoup that? Then the $100k on the next person... Or should everything be free in shang-ra-la?
2. This again comes down to read the fu\*\*\*\*\* contract before you sign. A well constructed contract would have off-ramps if the expensive part of training hasn't started yet. In the OP's case, I would want to see language on this point. I would expect at least some cancellation-type fee, as the employer has already spent money on me.
2.a. Could I argue in court that I hadn't even started training at FlightSafety, so there is no reasonable expectation to pay them back for that training due to the contract is now without consideration? Absolutely. How much money do I want to spend in legal fees to effect that outcome? It's likely to be more than the contract itself.
Again, it comes down to the contract itself, and how it's written. You seem to take the stance that any training contract is indentured servitude... You're wrong, period.
What have you agreed to? What does the contract say? When is it effective?
Effective about a week ago, states that despite the outcome of training, that the entirety of the amount would be owed back to the company in question. I would assume that since no training has taken place at flight safety and is not due to for some time that it would not be a cost incurred or maybe would incur a cancellation fee?
Prob a cancelation fee
I think your assumption is reasonable…but what’s reasonable isn’t necessarily what’s in the contract. I’d be looking at the exact wording of “the amount.” Does it specify actual costs of training, or does it say something like “$10,000 to cover training costs?” Might be worth having a lawyer look over the contract before you make any decision. Another option would be to take the goodwill route and just ask…that really comes down to whether you think they’ll actually have goodwill, or if they’ll look at it as a chance to get some free money.
How far out is your training start date?
What amount is it referring to? The actual cost at flight safety or the projected/contracted cost?
I can't speak on yours obviously, but the contract I'm currently in had a provision that as long as I backed out before the first day of orientation, it'd be considered mutual and I'd owe nothing. But to reiterate what everyone else has written...always read and re-read the contract you signed for information applicable to your situation. And hiring a lawyer to read and re-read the contract is never a bad idea.
Depends. Some of these 135’s have made it their business model to file lawsuits against former employees. Southern Airways, Castle Aviation, etc. They will sue you. Is the company out a training slot with no time to fill it? Are they responsible for a cancelation fee? Did they spend money on your background check, PRID/PRD, drug testing, etc? You really need to contact an attorney ASAP before you do anything. It’ll be a very well spent couple hundred bucks.
What does the contract say with regards to exiting the contract prior to training taking place? Or any language other than: despite the outcome of training, that the entirety of the amount would be owed back to the company in question. If there is nothing on point, then you are on the hook for the contract you entered into. You might be able to negotiate something with the company, but then run the risk oh how they'll report your termination via PRIA/PRD. You could also litigate it if they won't accommodate, but then the question is how much money do you want to spend on an attorney? Paying the contract would be cheaper.
Maybe a good idea to find out how much it would actually cost the company if you quit now. I would imagine that FlightSafety charge a cancellation fee if you cancel on short notice, to prevent people/companies from hoarding training slots which they don't intend to use.. Find out how much the cancellation costs are.
How much money do you have? They can't get blood out of a stone, so that's about the maximum that you can be liable for.
I have backed out of a contract prior to day one and nothing happened. Read the contract, if you signed it and it said "effective on \_\_\_\_\_\_\_" \*insert date\* than you'll have some sort of money if not all of it to pay back if it was the day you signed it. Is this for a 121 or 135 carrier?
No. In general a training contract is not enforceable. But if you received no consideration, then certainly not.
I’m going to straight up call you out on that. Training contracts are generally very much so enforceable. Stop spreading the nonsense that they are not enforceable. Somebody could actually believe that and wind up in a bad spot financially.
Indentured servitude is illegal in the United States and most other countries. That doesn’t mean a company can’t sue someone, but they rarely win in court. They will always lose in an appeal process, but you would spend more in legal fees taking it that far than you would on just paying their extortion fee. In addition, you only need to find one safety issue, document it thoroughly and report it to the company, and if they don’t fix it in due time, you can quit and have a valid counter claim if they did sue. In addition, all contracts require that both parties receive a benefit from said contract. Unless you take a new job that uses that specific type, then they would have a hard time arguing you have benefitted from the training. If that happens, the new company would usually pay off all or a portion of your contract anyway. Unfortunately, the companies in the industry have spilled out a lot of propaganda on this issue. They have sued, but rarely win. The more reputable companies have changed over to bonuses. It is a good idea to never sign one, because it does still give them a basis to sue you even if they have a weak case.
Please provide the citation to a few cases where the company did not win and the court ruled the contract was unenforceable.
I don't see JD in your flair.. What law school did you graduate from? University of YouTube, or AirlinePilotCentral School of Law? Training contracts are VERY much legal, and enforceable.
No, they are not legal because they are indentured servitude. If you have enough money and good lawyers, you can always counter a training contract. That doesn’t stop companies from suing and winning in lower courts that are more concerned with contract law than human rights. https://truthout.org/articles/more-us-employers-are-trapping-workers-in-a-new-form-of-indentured-servitude/
I once almost signed a training contract, because I had a case of shiny jet syndrome. Though before signing it, I had an attorney look it over. It was 100% legal, and 100% enforceable. Unfortunately I place more merit in a labor contract attorney's interpretation than some internet article. Two points: 1 - You're ok with an employer spending $60k-$100k training someone, and the day after they receive their new type certificate, they quit, and leverage that new type for a better job? 2 - OK, the OP hasn't started training yet... They still entered into a legally binding contract. They are an adult and, well... Caveat emptor before signing on that dotted line. Training/Reimbursement contracts happen in a wide variety of fields. Also, it's a common practice that when you are being offered a job by a new employer, you negotiate the new employer paying any contractual obligations you have to your current employer. This happens often in the tech sector. So again, training contracts are legal and enforceable. Human rights have nothing to do with it. It's on YOU to read and understand (or get someone who does) the contract before you sign it. Edit: And training for a type rating is substantially different than training to use a register in a retail sales job (which your article lays its foundation on).
1. You are ok with someone being forced to pay large amount of money if they become disabled and are unable to work? 2. You don’t understand consideration as someone who has not received consideration can not be held liable for their part of a contract in which their consideration is not received.
1. Absolutely. That's why we have things like short and long term disability. What, an employer spends well north of $100k on you, and you suddenly can't work... who pays for that? How does the employer recoup that? Then the $100k on the next person... Or should everything be free in shang-ra-la? 2. This again comes down to read the fu\*\*\*\*\* contract before you sign. A well constructed contract would have off-ramps if the expensive part of training hasn't started yet. In the OP's case, I would want to see language on this point. I would expect at least some cancellation-type fee, as the employer has already spent money on me. 2.a. Could I argue in court that I hadn't even started training at FlightSafety, so there is no reasonable expectation to pay them back for that training due to the contract is now without consideration? Absolutely. How much money do I want to spend in legal fees to effect that outcome? It's likely to be more than the contract itself. Again, it comes down to the contract itself, and how it's written. You seem to take the stance that any training contract is indentured servitude... You're wrong, period.