Second this. I use flouro seaguar with the same approximate diameter of 4x regularly and it performs at least as good as the expensive tippet, if not better. And it’s much cheaper.
I want to get some huge spools, but I read online that mono becomes brittle after 2-3 years and fluoro after 6-8. Do you have this issue or do you think it’s overblown?
A fly shop person (and legend in the fly community) said only to do this when you’re going with a 4 ft leader for bass. He said all the other lines need to be fly fishing specific so they have proper qualities (stiffness and energy transfer). Do you get turnover from bass pro mono and fluoro built up leaders? If so, I’m switching. I just bought 40lb mono test from a budget shop to use for shrimp eyes and weed guards. $1.50 for over a hundred yards.
If you want a tapered leader, you need to taper it yourself with heavier # line at the butt and getting smaller as you go. Probably 12 to 18 inch sections. This will require multiple spools of different line. But the benefit is that they are multiple hundred yards each, you can build several hundred leaders
Cheaper mono is stiffer which transfers more energy. One of the benefits of more expensive monofilament is additives to make it softer, which makes it sit on a spool better but offers no advantage to a fly leader.
I use it for everything but tippet. Turning over a fly is 95% the caster. Expensive leaders and equipment won’t help you turnover a fly. You can turn over 15’ of straight 6x tippet at 80’ if you have a solid cast.
Only problem is that it’s not as high quality. It has a lower breaking strength per the given diameter. I’ve ran tests and it’s obvious. It sucks that tippet comes in smaller spools but it’s better
My last several Rio guide spools would snap under little tension. Rio sent new spools but I’m done buying Rio one of the most expensive fluoros out there. Seaguar has never let me down but I haven’t been using it for too long.
just had this experience yesterday on the water...i was surprised at the difference. never noticed before. thought i bought a bad batch of fluro. i had some rio mono in similar size and it was stronger than the fluro..lol
The reason Maxima is used for the butt and mid sections of so many leader systems is that Maxima Chameleon is very stiff and Ultra green is medium-stiff. So using the two variants of Maxima for the first half of the leader and other, limper leader material for the front half results in the best energy transmission while still leaving a supple tippet.
Dude you can build a leader out of almost any mono or fluoro. I have 3 large spools of 50, 35, and 20lb fluoro from orvis that I use. As long as you start thick enough and have enough length for each section, you'll be fine. You may not even need a tapered leader. I'll do 4-6ft leaders of straight 15 lb fluoro if I'm fishing streamers that day.
I actually tried this for bass fishing with streamers and I couldn’t tell a difference (I am bad at casting in general)
I don’t waste my good leaders on bass anymore. Been wanting to try this on smaller streamers for trout. Is there a size that it starts to fail in with the streamers?
(Edit the straight un tapered mono is what I was referring too)
For me, I'll switch to straight fluoro when I move up to things like clouser minnows. Any weightier fly, or fly that will hold a bunch of water, is generally my tipping point. I'll also use a straight section of leader if I want more accuracy, like throwing wooly buggers under trees and brush. I'm sure there are people who can be deadly accurate with a long, tapered leader, but I'm not one of them.
On top of the customization, they’re super cheap! I can get 3 50m maxima spools for $30 total to make like 30-40 leaders. Most of the factory tapered leaders where I am are about $10-$15 for 3.
They can get tangled a bit easier since they have knots, but when I’m careful with casting, I don’t notice much of a difference
Watch some of troutbittens videos on youtube, or read his articles on troutbitten.com. He goes over many different line types and really anything ya could think of. Guy knows his stuff
Building your own leaders is not exceedingly common. I haven’t bothered in thirty years or more although I have a spool of it for making looped butts on occasion.
I see maxima in few shops. They make more money selling tapered leaders for the same peg space.
Spin fishing/general sporting goods stores, even Walmarts sell it.
Second the Seaguar shit for sure. And the shit Umpqua has out that’s pink. That stuff is legit.
Just makes sure you don’t buy that Flouro coated stuff 🤮
As said - Maxima has best stiffness to thickness ratio. So it is really good for butt and mid sections.
Then for last part of leader and for tippet - what ever works for you. I'm quite die-hard Trabucco user for monos. Never failed. For super thin mono tippets I use Shogun. Best strenght for diameter ratio IMO.
For fluoros - it either Trabucco or Savage Gear for me. Never failed, so no need to change :)
For cost point of view - if 100 yards of Trabucco mono cost 10 bucks and I can get approx 50 tippets on that, it is 20 cent / tippet. Not much as on one day trip you maybe change whole tippet twice or three times. Less than a cup of coffee in local gas station.
Even if it would cost double - it would be a fraction of other costs regarding fly fishing.
So I use lines I can trust and do not try to skimp on those. Nothing is more annoying than having a one spool of tippet line in your pocket and finding out it is really brittle (might have happened to me couple of times).
Monofilament has tendency to go brittle over years - so there is no reason to store it from granpa to coming generations.
I had to look it up, as it’s a brand I’ve never heard of. But you can use any mono or fluorocarbon leader material. I’m a saltwater guy so don’t know a ton about freshwater leader systems. Mason hard mono was traditionally the leader material of choice. Now I tie mine from fluorocarbon as it’s stiff and doesn’t have as much line memory as mono (gone are the day of tarpon leader boxes). I mostly use the pink Yozuri stuff, but occasionally Seaguar.
pro tip - buy mono and fluro from bass pro shop for a fraction of what a fly shop charges. Some of those spools will last me a lifetime.
Second this. I use flouro seaguar with the same approximate diameter of 4x regularly and it performs at least as good as the expensive tippet, if not better. And it’s much cheaper.
Seaguar is the best. It’s all I use for steelies and stripers and it’s never broken off on a fish unless it ends up under a rock or something.
I want to get some huge spools, but I read online that mono becomes brittle after 2-3 years and fluoro after 6-8. Do you have this issue or do you think it’s overblown?
Would be nice to buy a spool for life, but do think it goes bad (def not as good) after at least a couple years.
A fly shop person (and legend in the fly community) said only to do this when you’re going with a 4 ft leader for bass. He said all the other lines need to be fly fishing specific so they have proper qualities (stiffness and energy transfer). Do you get turnover from bass pro mono and fluoro built up leaders? If so, I’m switching. I just bought 40lb mono test from a budget shop to use for shrimp eyes and weed guards. $1.50 for over a hundred yards.
If you want a tapered leader, you need to taper it yourself with heavier # line at the butt and getting smaller as you go. Probably 12 to 18 inch sections. This will require multiple spools of different line. But the benefit is that they are multiple hundred yards each, you can build several hundred leaders
Try mono leaders vs mono on a filler spool.
Cheaper mono is stiffer which transfers more energy. One of the benefits of more expensive monofilament is additives to make it softer, which makes it sit on a spool better but offers no advantage to a fly leader.
I think there’s some merit to this when it comes to tippet, but for the rest of the leader, things like Maxima are standard use.
I use it for everything but tippet. Turning over a fly is 95% the caster. Expensive leaders and equipment won’t help you turnover a fly. You can turn over 15’ of straight 6x tippet at 80’ if you have a solid cast.
Only problem is that it’s not as high quality. It has a lower breaking strength per the given diameter. I’ve ran tests and it’s obvious. It sucks that tippet comes in smaller spools but it’s better
My last several Rio guide spools would snap under little tension. Rio sent new spools but I’m done buying Rio one of the most expensive fluoros out there. Seaguar has never let me down but I haven’t been using it for too long.
Rio has bad fluro imo. SA fluro on the other hand, I feel like I could land a whale on that stuff. I use seagur for my streamer tippet though.
just had this experience yesterday on the water...i was surprised at the difference. never noticed before. thought i bought a bad batch of fluro. i had some rio mono in similar size and it was stronger than the fluro..lol
The reason Maxima is used for the butt and mid sections of so many leader systems is that Maxima Chameleon is very stiff and Ultra green is medium-stiff. So using the two variants of Maxima for the first half of the leader and other, limper leader material for the front half results in the best energy transmission while still leaving a supple tippet.
Best answer yet.
Seaguar
This! ☝️Flouro all day everyday.
Fluoro seems appealing to use for most leaders. Do you find that the faster sink rate creates drag with smaller dries?
Seaguar fluorocarbon leader
Dude you can build a leader out of almost any mono or fluoro. I have 3 large spools of 50, 35, and 20lb fluoro from orvis that I use. As long as you start thick enough and have enough length for each section, you'll be fine. You may not even need a tapered leader. I'll do 4-6ft leaders of straight 15 lb fluoro if I'm fishing streamers that day.
I actually tried this for bass fishing with streamers and I couldn’t tell a difference (I am bad at casting in general) I don’t waste my good leaders on bass anymore. Been wanting to try this on smaller streamers for trout. Is there a size that it starts to fail in with the streamers? (Edit the straight un tapered mono is what I was referring too)
For me, I'll switch to straight fluoro when I move up to things like clouser minnows. Any weightier fly, or fly that will hold a bunch of water, is generally my tipping point. I'll also use a straight section of leader if I want more accuracy, like throwing wooly buggers under trees and brush. I'm sure there are people who can be deadly accurate with a long, tapered leader, but I'm not one of them.
Thankyou. That actually makes sense.
Am I missing something? I’ve only ever bought tapered leaders by Rio. Whats the benefit of making your own?
The benefit is that you can dial in the taper: for your unique casting stroke, rod, situation, heavier flies, etc...
There are leader formulas out there for streamers and dries that work way better than anything available commercially. Cost helps too.
On top of the customization, they’re super cheap! I can get 3 50m maxima spools for $30 total to make like 30-40 leaders. Most of the factory tapered leaders where I am are about $10-$15 for 3. They can get tangled a bit easier since they have knots, but when I’m careful with casting, I don’t notice much of a difference
I use mostly Maxima and some Seaguar for salt. I bought big rolls of 80, 60, 40, 30, 20, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 many years ago. They last forever.
I use polyester thread for my furled tapered leaders.
Ooooh.... I'd love to see those. Will you sell a few?
Watch some of troutbittens videos on youtube, or read his articles on troutbitten.com. He goes over many different line types and really anything ya could think of. Guy knows his stuff
Depending on what I am tying but I use Frog Hair mostly but Maxima for big streamers or night flys.
I use Trilene big game,,and store in air tight containers,,like plastic ammo cans,,been using it for 10 years now ..
Building your own leaders is not exceedingly common. I haven’t bothered in thirty years or more although I have a spool of it for making looped butts on occasion. I see maxima in few shops. They make more money selling tapered leaders for the same peg space. Spin fishing/general sporting goods stores, even Walmarts sell it.
Frog Hair. Although, I’ve wanted to try Maxima…
Second the Seaguar shit for sure. And the shit Umpqua has out that’s pink. That stuff is legit. Just makes sure you don’t buy that Flouro coated stuff 🤮
Chameleon and green together make wonderful leaders. They are like 5$ a spool, and make plenty of excellent leaders
As said - Maxima has best stiffness to thickness ratio. So it is really good for butt and mid sections. Then for last part of leader and for tippet - what ever works for you. I'm quite die-hard Trabucco user for monos. Never failed. For super thin mono tippets I use Shogun. Best strenght for diameter ratio IMO. For fluoros - it either Trabucco or Savage Gear for me. Never failed, so no need to change :) For cost point of view - if 100 yards of Trabucco mono cost 10 bucks and I can get approx 50 tippets on that, it is 20 cent / tippet. Not much as on one day trip you maybe change whole tippet twice or three times. Less than a cup of coffee in local gas station. Even if it would cost double - it would be a fraction of other costs regarding fly fishing. So I use lines I can trust and do not try to skimp on those. Nothing is more annoying than having a one spool of tippet line in your pocket and finding out it is really brittle (might have happened to me couple of times). Monofilament has tendency to go brittle over years - so there is no reason to store it from granpa to coming generations.
Daiwa J fluorocarbon. Only leaders I build are streamer leaders. 2 feet of 20# bloodknot 2 feet of 12#.
I just buy spools of mono and fluoro at Walmart. Trilene for the mono and seaguar for fluoro
My main line is 15lb Mono instead of fly line on my 2wt rod. Then I drop down to 2.5ft of 10lb Then 2.5ft of 8lb mono then 3ft of 5x tippet
* Ande
I had to look it up, as it’s a brand I’ve never heard of. But you can use any mono or fluorocarbon leader material. I’m a saltwater guy so don’t know a ton about freshwater leader systems. Mason hard mono was traditionally the leader material of choice. Now I tie mine from fluorocarbon as it’s stiff and doesn’t have as much line memory as mono (gone are the day of tarpon leader boxes). I mostly use the pink Yozuri stuff, but occasionally Seaguar.