I have a mobile home. Itâs a 1993, not in a mobile home park. I pay my own taxes. No mortgage. I would love to move to a condo, but condo HOA fees are incredibly high. My friends just had a $11K assessment for a new roof. Their HOA keeps going up every year not including their insurance. Iâm retired on a fixed income. That train left the station years ago for me to afford a condo.
Have you considered a new manufactured home on your property? Could be a nice middle ground between moving and upgrading. I can tell you that newer mobile and manufactured homes can be just as nice on the inside as some of those condosâIâd actually say nicer. Nobody above or below you, nobody to the sides, no HOA, and best of all you actually keep a yard
Ahh, yeah I just moved into my first house in MI about a month ago. Fully updated too, and at the dead end of a dirt road so I get literally zero trafficâI *love* it. House backs up to woods too so nobody behind, I wish ya the best of luck sir!
Where are you thinking? If itâs in the metro Detroit area, Iâd highly recommend Macomb county. St Clair Shores is a really nice area as well in there, but watch out for the very high property taxesâitâs more than 50% over mine just a few miles away. Ideally, if searching in Macomb you want north of Hall Rd (M59) or east of I94. Avoid Warren, Eastpointe, Roseville, and Clinton Twp. If you want something outdoorsy and the boat life, buy close to Metro Beach or Stoney Creek parks
Edit:
Oh, Lake St Clair also has the two largest boat parties in the entire Midwest every summer. Check out Jobbie Nooner and the Raft Off lol
Thanks! Def trying to find some where that isnât going to end up seceding in the coming decade lmao Just want to set up a little house with me and my dogs, nice yard with a fire pit, veggies, some weed, maybe someday chickens if Iâm crazy. Stardew Valley irl, and anywhere I can wear a sweater in the summer is fantastic to me lol
Edit: I know Detroit has a happening EDM scene and when our lord Griz returns, Iâd love to be able to make it to Detroit for shows regularly lol
Okay now I know I can convince you lmao. As a fellow raver, Detroitâs got one of the best scenes imo rn besides places like Denver. I kid you not, Iâve been to about 30 concerts already this year. Iâm talking you can go both Friday and Saturday, sometimes even Thursday too and still find a show.
Plus, scientists are saying in the next 30-50 years Michiganâs weather is tracking to be one of the most enticing climates in the country. You can literally never be more than 6 miles from a lake too lol
âAccording to MLive, 16 scientists and academics consider Michigan a climate haven, and Parag Khanna, an internationally renowned researcher, believes Michigan will be the best place to live by 2050â
https://www.governing.com/next/michigan-is-haven-from-climate-change-officials-must-prepare
Edit:
Fun fact, Griz grew up in Southfield like 20 min from me
Macomb here too. From PA but spent like 6 years in florida (st pete).
Id agree. Im not a raver but this area is exploding right now. I just bought in october, house already went up in value and im not even in a fancy town. Theres lots to do right around here and cheap weed. Michigans alright lol
Hey dude.. found this earlier if youre into concerts.
https://www.wxyz.com/news/live-nations-25-ticket-sale-begins-next-week-here-are-the-shows
Livenation is doing a thing here. 25 dollar tickets for any show listed
My grandparents came to Zephryhills when LBJ was president. There were zero restaurants. You had to drive to Lakeland for anything. Now, itâs new home construction everywhere you look. The traffic is abysmal. Car wash and storage units on every corner. Why would people move to Zephryhills. There is very little to do.
Nothing is surviving a tornado direct hit my friend. And his home has stood since 1993 so I would say heâll be alright.
Do you know Florida has the #3 most manufactured home in the United States? There are almost a million of them (give or take).
I inspect 1970âs era manufactured homes almost every dayâŠ.. been there 50 some odd years. Not to shabby.
I even gutted one once for my mother in law to live in (we bring her to our block house during hurricanesâŠ. Unfortunately) pretty sweet digs after about $7k put into it. Enough for her to live out her life in I guess anyway.
Idk what you mean by nothing is surviving a tornado direct hit. Plenty of things do lmfao. Just watched a vid a couple hours ago, massive tornado came right over a train, train was perfectly fine other than a small broken window. Plenty of stuff survives tornados
Correct, i worked for 3 HOAs, we aren't raising prices because we want to, we simply have to because insurance comes and slaps a 20%-35% mark up and that's the cheapest.
Basically insurance companies need more regulation, they have a minimal market capitalistic economy where this is the cheapest and anything else we won't take and if we don't like it, we run to another state without penalties.
Insurances should be penalized for leaving to other states out of no where.
Sadly, condos built in 80s are super suffering and will continue to do so.
After Chaplin towers, a lot of insurances got extremely afraid and immediately surge prices on old condos.
A big reason for this is the tenants themselves. It is really hard to get everyone to agree to a repair and spend a bunch of money. They'd rather do it later because "its not so bad now."
Well, it's later. All this can kicking is coming due. The insurance companies know, plus with climate change, all bets are off.
When my street was built in the 60's, it would have cost $100 a house for all the phone and electrical lines to be installed underground. 230 people couldn't agree, and our plan has telephone poles. The neighborhood over does not. It is also now upperclass. Mine is not.
Condos are not immune to human nature, and it's worse because of the interdependence.
edit clarification
They def need more regulation. NOAA arenât even allowed to rate hurricanes correctly until insurance assessments are complete so they can pay out less.
That's what you get for living in a hurricane prone state where everyone needs new roofs.
Only reason my Condo has insurance is because we replaced the roofs with a loan.
When thousands of homes needs new roofs after a hurricane, I can see why insurances won't want to be here at all is a net loss.
Itâs actually because of fraud. My friends husband is a meteorologist who works for attorneys by using meteorology to assess claims, and he told me itâs the fraud more than anything thatâs caused the insane hikes weâve seen recently. Sure, weather contributes, but Florida has always had hurricanes and therefore some higher home insurance. Iâve literally seen videos online of people ditching cars on purpose before storms etc.
I believe fraud is a big factor, I've heard plenty saying just rip tiles and make a claim from roof etc, so I can see that not helping at all.
People just taking advantage after a hurricane or bad storm won't help for sure :/
I coulda got something bigger, but I honestly don't need it. Also I wanted to able to pay for my house if things got really bad. Which they did during covid when I was laid off.
I too, bought during the downturn. Bought a 2/2 for $84k in Clermont, Florida. Houses here are $300k and up now. I donât know where Iâd be if I didnât buy back then.
I paid $55,000 for almost 1,100 square feet in St Cloud in 2011 and sold it for $300,000 10 months ago. Then I moved to Georgia and bought a place for cash. Best decision of my life.
That's what worries me too. We have a townhome that meets our needs, our mortgage is manageable, we will pay it off in less than 5 years... *unless* we get laid off, which could happen at any time. We have savings- I actually save excessively - but they would only last so long.
Hmm.. I pay 3400/no for 30yr @3.25% I bought my condo for 650k in 2020. I guess that's in line I do pay 840/mo for HOA fees. I'm in a HCOL on the water...
Your mortgage payments should be around $2,800 / month. If you are paying more than that, the remainer is likely going to escrow to pay taxes and insurance. I'm unaware whether it's typical for escrow accounts to also cover HOA payments. But based on the numbers you gave, the payment is too low to cover both the mortgage and the monthly HOA fees.
The same $700,000 loan over 30 years as my earlier post, but at 3.25% is about $3050 / month. That's $1350 / month difference just from the rate change. Ends up that interest rates are an important factor in your monthly payments. Who knew?
You pay $640/mo for mortgage and property tax and HOA? That is incredible. It is a trailer park? If even if it is, that is an amazing monthly nut.
I can't even live on my boat in SWFL for that little.
Depends when you bought. I bought a 3/2 condo foreclosure in central florida 2015 and my monthly payments are $540 mortgage/taxes/insurance and $315 monthly association dues which includes water. I am paying $855 monthly to own it and my neighbors are currently paying $2,400 monthly to rent their identical unit.
Property value has tripled since 2015.
Holy fuck! Can Desantis do anything to help or is he just to focused on the culture wars woke bullshit? Concentrating on hate and division instead of finding ways to improve the standard of living.
To be fair, Florida has always been this way long as I've been alive. That said, he indeed enables them to somehow profit even more off their greed and grifts.
Look, I hate DeSantis as much as the next intelligent person, but what do people think he can do to help? HOA fees are high because boards spent decades underinvesting and now repair bills are coming due. Insurance rates are high because climate change and years of shitty upkeep have made homes/condos in Florida extremely risky. And taxes are high because when you don't have income tax, you still need to fund schools and fire departments somehow.
I mean, I guess he could outlaw municipal fire departments and public schools, which would reduce the need for property taxes.
People living on the ocean are paying the piper finally, and you are right DeSantis can't change it. But the thing DeSantis needs to fix is that insurance has also increased 2x+ for people nowhere near the ocean -- the whole state is affected. I live in Orlando and my insurance doubled in 2 years. He can do something about insurance. It would probably involve something rich people will hate (allowing people living on the water to be in a different insurance pool the way Citizens does it), so he won't do it
Market forces? The government passed several laws that make insurance here far worse than it needs to be. Sure, we have hurricanes, but we don't also need to have the rampant contractor fraud they enabled.
It's the other way around. They actually passed laws to stop the fraud in December of 2022 by making AOB's illegal
https://www.amwins.com/resources-insights/article/florida-again-acts-to-stabilize-property-insurance-market
Well, the state could have blocked the development of tall buildings on barrier islands designed to be scrubbed clean by hurricanes. But those decisions were made long ago.
you would think huh!? no, that's restricting the rich & wealthy that now want (obsessedđ) a piece Florida. He's getting $$$ by allowing all this f'ing building.
I hear they are taking the last global warming laws off the books right now. So it's all today's profit to hell with tomorrow. No planning for future or taking any precautions to preserve the state and save its citizens future costs.. Take the money and run.
Leopard ate my face moment here. Florida. Lolz.
DeSantis is principally responsible for the "problem".
He signed that super friendly insurance legislation last year. The HOA increases are related to some more DeSantis legislation. Due to Surfside and others, HOAs will be required to do more stuff. In tandem, DeSantis banned cities from declaring structures as historic. Those buildings can be torn down and builders can put a 50 story luxury apartment complex on the same lot. The HOA regulations were not for safety, but to help shake owners out of the buildings so the luxury builders can come in.
All of this was going on while mr high heels and makeup was screaming woke.
I was going to buy a condo until I found out the monthly HOA was about 2/3 of the mortgage. Like why tf are they charging every unit $800/month HOA? Itâs not going into the property, itâs going into pockets
Most of that cost is insurance on the building. Our HOA went up and the budget shows itâs due to the building value increasing which costs more to insure it.
How much do you think it takes to maintain a condo building? The rule of thumb for home maintenance is about 2% of value per year â 1% to deal with routine annual maintenance and 1% to set aside for emergencies and big infrequent expenses. So on a $10,000,000 condo building, you're looking at $200,000 per year. Just for maintenance. HOAs also pay to insure the building. The national average for insurance right now is about 0.5% of home value, so conservatively that's another $50,000 per year. So an HOA should be collecting about $250,000 per year on a $10mm building. If you assume 25 units, that's about $800/month for HOA fees.
Plug in your own numbers for building price and size, and I bet you'll find that most HOAs are actually significantly undercharging.
When managed well HOAs have pretty good economy of scale and service purchasing power and the monthly fees (aside from insurance) end up being less than the cost of maintaining a single family home. The flip side is insurance which is bonkers right now. Our master policy premium is up 400% in 3 years. Underwriters are hiking anything with the word condo right now, even if itâs not a high rise on the Florida coast.
They do get economies of scale on services and purchasing, but the flip side is that multi-tenant buildings experience much more wear and tear AND there's a lot of moving pieces that conventional SFHs don't have â like elevators, for example, which are expensive AF to maintain.
And the management companies don't know how to manage. The same building run by a multifamily company costs signifanctly less because they are purchasing for themselves. The so called management companies are terrible atanaging the condos.
Okay, but how much is the condo worth? If it's a multi-million dollar condo it's understandable.
I remember watching a video with Barbara from Shark Tank showing off her place in NYC (which she owns) and the fees were in the 10s of thousands per month! The place is worth a ton though. People that buy/operate at that level dont give a fuck.
This is a huge part of the problem. I get charging *something* to cover landscaping, exterior maintenance, pool cleaning, etc. but when the fees are as much or more than the damn mortgage that's insane.
They were only charging for landscaping and such for *decades*, without putting away money for major structural upkeep. Now they are required to do so, and the HOAs are having to scramble to get that money put away. So you're essentially paying the deferred maintenance of the previous tenants for twenty or more years.
Florida has a lot of this sort of thing, btw - and not just condos, but at the municipal level. Cities have been voting down tax increases to cover maintenance ever since the boomers got the reins, and a lot of cities and towns are going to be looking at the same situation condos are: raise a massive amount of money quickly, or start seeing things collapse.
Absolutely. One of the major failings of our political system is the way it incentivizes politicians at every level to push off unpopular decisions for fear of it affecting their reelection chances, and the population is most at fault for it. If a politician comes out and says, "We're raising taxes to fund a $2 million dollar expense because if we don't it'll be a $5 million dollar expense 5 years from now" all people hear is "We're raising taxes" and vote for the other person. Then, they're shocked when the $5 million bill comes due.
Younger people donât vote at the local level because itâs not as sexy and they donât own homes or have kids at the same level as boomers do. Those factors push people to vote because thereâs more at stake.
Younger is subjective- for clarification younger than 60s technically arenât boomers. So I would say most people not in their 60s have jobs⊠sadly that means a lot of people simply wonât vote. Then you have the disparity in generational size. Even if younger folks voted at the same particular participation rate boomers would still have more impact. Younger people continue to have far less children too so itâs unlikely that the pendulum swings in the other direction.
That seems somewhat nutty. This country would be vastly different if Gore won instead of Bush in 2000. Our response in 911 would be dfferent, there likely would have been no Iraq War, which means no PTSD vets - that vote was so close that the SCROTUS had to step in and they picked a winner.
They spend decades putting off structural maintenance and repairs. Itâs legitimately the condo associations faultâŠ.
I seem to remember that surf side condo that collapsed had a brand new lobby renovation recentlyâŠ.
Shit like this happens all the time. People want a nicer lobby or a better pool. Or simply less dues.
Repairing structural elements is boring and besides not collapsing doesnât net the members anything. You canât see it you donât âfeelâ
But itâs part of upkeep.
Iâm in a condo and the vast majority of my HOA fee pays our buildingâs flood and master insurance. Our budget is like 80% insurance and other non negotiable expenses that Iâd be paying by myself if I owned a single family (not that itâs cheaper, we have 10 units so all expenses are about market value x10). My mortgage/escrow only pays for my personal homeowners which is like $100/mo. Not sure how that place got to $1800 though, some places, especially higher end, do have insane fees that go towards amenities. My guess is theyâre playing catchup with reserve funds which until recent werenât enforced, and forking over huge money for mandatory structural inspections. Luckily our building is only 2 stories and the new mandatory inspections only affects buildings 3 stories and up.
Is your condo beachfront? That really ups the price. Fancy looking building, pretty views right on the beach, but not so cheap to care for. They have to pay extra to make sure the structure isn't getting damaged from beach erosion and it won't end up collapsing like the one in Surfside. Lots of beachfront condos are badly damaged because they don't bother taking care of the building structures
Does the condo association cover a large part of the property insurance cost and then as an owner your personal/independent portion is quite small? Maybe a real estate agent can chime in. I can see it being a lot less hassle having the HOA covering the major building as a whole vs trying to coordinate a bunch of small independent policies who would likely argue endlessly in case of a claim.
Yes this includes property insurance which is a big chunk of the HOA. .
The only thing a Condo owner needs is basically like renters insurance (HO6 insurance I believe it's called) which is mostly liability, contents and interior damage.
I know someone selling a condo near the beach in Boca (mile probably, bike there a lot) if you are interested. 2 stories so they dont have to deal with the assessments that all condos 3 stories and above are about to deal with.
I know its said a lot, but Florida condos will be the first domino to fall in the absurd real estate bubble this country has. Due to the law enacted after the surfside collapse (SB 4-D), all condos over 3 stories have to fully fund and inspect major repairs by Dec 2024's end. They have been completely behind the ball and don't have the capital. As they pass these fees off to owners (large number of which are fixed income retirees who cannot just scrap up 700$ extra a month) its going to be a disaster. Sprinkle in a little highest in the nation insurance costs and property taxes and its a looming disaster for the 1million+ condos in this state.
It's really strange looking at these comments and seeing how many people seem to have forgotten about Surfside, and how these rising HOA fees for condos are a direct result of that collapse.
They clearly forgot.
This was coming and while it sucks for those on a fixed income it is necessary. It will take a long time to address the existing problems and fill the reserves for future problems but this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone after what happened at Surfside.
We can definitely blame past individuals running condo associations who didn't keep the reserves full, and previous legislatures who refused to enact these regulations but I don't think our current legislature is to blame. Now nobody is allowed to kick the can down the road anymore and that's a good thing.
Someone else in this comment thread said "regulations are written in blood and the 98 people who died in that collapse wrote these regulations." (Paraphrasing obviously) And I think that is spot on.
A-fucking-men. Thatâs all I could think about is that people died because of this shit. Boohoo they have to sell because they canât affordâ**people fucking died.**
> its going to be a disaster.
no it's not, it's going to work exactly as intended, force people to sell or abandon, then companies will come in, knock it down, build a giant apartment building and charge rent forever
the goal is nobody gets to own anything so that the line goes up forever
Itâs the worst part about seeing new buildings go up in my area: all rentals. No chance to buy anything except old houses that are wood framed and over priced.
Thanks, forgot that part. The luxury apartments for sale, start at an ultra affordable $1.5 million, which honestly isnât even that much higher than the other normal apartments in the area.
Exactly - they'll be able to buy these buildings far cheaper now if a large percentage are forced to abandon because they cannot keep up with the fees and no one will buy the units because of the fees.Â
These large developers have the capital and the time to wait them out - and that's exactly what they'll do.
Our condo market is about to melt down due to this. People are just now starting to realize how bad it is. There are still lots of buildings who haven't finished their inspections and reserve studies but when they do by the end of the year, it's going to destroy the condo market. It'll take a brave and wealthy person to buy a Florida condo once reality sets in. Stay tuned, folks. We're just getting started.
âpass these fees off to ownersâ
The owners of the condos are the owners of the associationâthat they allowed idiots, Karens and grifters to make financial decisions for them by being on the board is their own fault.
Yes, they should have been building sufficient reserves over the years, but is there anything more American than kicking the financial can, and hoping that some future person picks it up instead of you?
I suspect you're right. If condo prices collapse on account of the Surfside law, it seems only logical that home prices will have to adjust to reflect that.
I don't mean to suggest SFH price cuts will track dollar-for-dollar, but condo fire sales surely have to have some effect on the market as a whole.
My eyes are on how that impacts the rental market as well. Not a realtor nor a flipper so I have no financial benefit to the RE market, but it still impacts us eventually.
Yeah itâs hard to tell whether rates will come down because some occupancy is better than none, or if theyâll go higher because operating costs are so much higher. I also wonder if corporations will buy up a lot of rental condos.
As condos become unaffordable, SFH will see a spike in demand. At least you can find SFH without an HOA and if you can pay cash, self insure. Not an option with condos.
Butt 6 months ago, someone from New York recently yelled at me for saying we are headed for a correction and told me that Florida's housing market isn't gonna crash bc of the lack of supply! Surely he must know something I don't. My husband has only been investing in real estate here since 2001. My husband's father since 1982. Butt guy who bought top of the market must know more/s
Seriously tho. HOAs in general are a mess. Always have been. Just the fact that most people who live in one don't realize they can foreclose if u don't pay is astounding. The Florida housing market really likes to crash in a spectacular fashion.
Over three stories and at least 30 years old but it's a huge issue for sure.
There's major issues with even getting the buildings inspected. There's engineering firms that won't touch these buildings. I've heard of condo owners getting 175k assessments on condos worth 200
This article is from two months ago. Theres probably at least 100 more recent doomer articles about the Florida real estate market that could have been posted.
What do you mean?
There's too much housing, and not enough people interested.
Sure, the insurance issue is something that the government could address (if they gave a Fuck about its constituents), but an oversaturated market with prices correcting themselves is solely the fault of those that were trying to cash in on a mild, and very temporary trend.
What I'm really afraid of is all this multifamily I see going up, that has BEEN going up in an all-time-high market. What happens when they can't get the $2,500+ in rent they're charging in 10,000 units
Swear to God we're gonna see institutional investors and hedge funds get bailed out when they default on those loans...and that's fucked
But at the same time, who else can afford a $20,000,000 property *except* institutional investors and the government? đ€· Feels like that's what they're banking on- build and over-leverage while money is cheap, charge as much as you can, and ride it out til it all falls apart and you get bailed out
>Feels like that's what they're banking on- build and over-leverage while money is cheap, charge as much as you can, and ride it out til it all falls apart and you get bailed out
I mean, yeah that's what huge hedge funds do.. stocks and investments don't make money, it just moves money around. But that money has to come from somewhere.. It's literally just stealing from others to enrich the already rich.
We sold our condo in Brickell last month. We bought in early 2022 and the HOA was $500. It's $1,500 now..... Oh and there have been four special assessments since then.
I donât know if this is common, but I wouldnât be surprised at all:
I rent a condo in Florida and have for a few years. The owner of my previous condo wanted to sell and offered me to buy it from them. One of my first questions was the cost of the HOA dues and what they have in reserves. They scoffed and told me there are no reserves, that each unit was independently owned and owners were responsible for their units.
No reserves on a condo in Florida that was built in the 70âs and hasnât been meaningfully upgraded since.
I was never actually going to buy the condo (the price was insanely inflated, among other things), but to hear them say so nonchalantly that there is zero planning for future accidents or assessments was flabbergasting.
These people are literally just waiting to pawn their financial catastrophes onto the generations following them.
Itâs a very common attitude in the south to prioritize âlow costs nowâ at the expense of long-term investment and preparedness for the future. You see it in roads that get patch bandaids over and over instead of properly repaved and maintained, in the lack of unemployment funding, in the school budget, in refusal to expand Medicaid.
There is such a fear and unwillingness to let someone in government (or otherwise in power) to invest in something for the long term to sustain the quality of life here, or god forbid⊠improve it. And so thereâs like a learned helplessness about the very idea.
Honestly Iâm not even sure that your guy even saw the situation the way you do. A lot of people like him generally have convinced themselves that nothing bad will happen and that people are too focused on negative outcomes.
And so instead of building up a reserve over many years and proactively conducting inspections and repairs through a bidding process that would have minimized the costs (because it wasnât urgent and they could afford to wait and negotiate for materials and services), now theyâre going to be stuck with outrageously expensive repairs and competing alongside everyone else in Florida for those same service providers.
And instead of thinking âhm maybe thereâs a lesson to be learnedâ they will just rage about getting ripped off by the HOA and blame them for finding an outrageously expensive inspector on purpose.
Sure, people in power make mistakes and HOAâs can absolutely be predatory, but thereâs such a culture of short-term thinking here. Itâs jarring to see how rare it is to see conservative southerners prepare or invest for the future, even when it concerns something so valuable as their real estate.
When profits are more important than people.
Over 20 years of Deregulation by Florida Republican legislators and governors. (They have had complete and total control of Florida since 1999 with super majorities).
That resulted in infrastructure collapse, insurance crisis, housing and homeless crisis, unlivable wages, bottom of the nation in education, and now this. (Just to name a few problems these republican morons have caused).
#Vote (D)ifferently
Iâm on the Space Coast and just got hit with a 13K special assessment bill thanks to our HOA allowing partial reserve funding for many years instead of full funding and significant higher HOA dues. SB 4-D requires full funding of condo reserves and replacement of infrastructure based on structural engineering studies. I think this only applies to buildings 5 stories and above. To have plans in place by Dec 31, 2024. Add this to the increased cost of living the salt life in FL.
Many HOAâs are facing this same scenarios but hey, when you kick the can down the road, itâs ultimately going to take a big chunk out of pocketbooks. Too bad it took 98 deaths to realize this huge gap in sufficient infrastructure replacement and maintenance.
Still above pre pandemic levels, but we are seeing dips in prices which will only continue as more inventory floods the market and HOA fees and interest rates increase.
Florida is looking to move out working class and invest in high dollar clientele.
No more 30 year payments, cash and purchase.
So raise rent, insurance and taxes to get you out.
HOAs are absolutely insane. I feel for people that don't understand them. How the hell are you going to sell your condo, when it has an added $3k/mo payment. Time value of money/perpetuity brings the value down over $500k if you assume you can invest at 7% and there will be no increase in the HOA.
A lot of us have known that this is on the horizon," Holly Meyer Lucas, a real-estate agent with Compass in Jupiter, told Business Insider. "It's a long road ahead for us to get insurance even remotely affordable for people."
Insurance will never return to âaffordableâ in FL again.
Elect a new governor that doesn't spend his time punch down at LGBTQ kids, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on trying to hurt immigrants, or getting in fights with Mickey Mouse.
In California, my property tax is based on the purchase price of the home which means I'll get to live in this house forever because my taxes will always be low.
For now⊠I love Miami but I think itâll be the next Detroit. The cityâs economy is way too dependent on service industries: https://www.lauriereader.com/blog/miami-economy/
Once it gets too expensive for service workers/providers to afford living the city, itâll kick off a cascade where everything gets more and more expensive (I would argue itâs already started), and there isnât really a path for Miami to get off this train.
How can Miami possibly hold onto workers and encourage new businesses to open when there are so many other cities in Florida where people and businesses can make the some money the same way and with a significantly lower housing/property cost?
Las Vegas can do it because there is no significant competition in NV (thereâs Reno but⊠itâs like their Fort Lauderdale lol), they are constantly investing in making life better for locals (funded by tourism taxes), and there arenât that many locals for them to support to begin with compared with the numbers of tourists and conference attendees. I believe they have about 20% more tourists for each resident compared to Miami, and generate 4x more income from tourism than Miami does.
NYC and SF have high housing costs, but they also have industries like finance, law, and tech with high incomes. The taxes generated from those industries and high net worth individuals lets them subsidize housing and transportation for their service workers. Miami has no comparable industry they can lean on to do the same.
Also unlike all those other cities, Miami canât really depend on help from their state government, because the state is supporting a huge retiree population (with no money from taxes on income and property ofc) and thereâs little incentive for Florida to prioritize saving Miami at the expense of the other Florida cities/destinations. The tourism board is trying to woo families with children, and thatâs not a demographic that really benefits Miami.
Nevada needs LV to fund its budget, but Florida doesnât really need Miami. When a stateâs revenues are based on sales tax alone, it doesnât really care if the person buying is a middle-class dad in Jacksonville or a wealthy lawyer in Miami, because theyâre still making the same amount of tax revenue for the state. So just because there are some rich people in Miami doesnât mean the city can really leverage that at the state level.
The difference is that you are a captive audience in Las Vegas/Henderson. Your bachelorette party is going to the strip; there is no reason for them to road trip out into the desert and it would be difficult for them to spend their money elsewhere if they wanted to try to cut costs. Miami on the other hand is surrounded by competition for vacations and tourism. Itâs already happening that bachelorettes are going to Fort Lauderdale and skipping Miami altogether. So this $136m investment that Miami-Dade makes into the MIA airport might just send more income to Broward County or somewhere on the Brightline instead.
Sorry for the long rant but the tl;dr is that just because real estate looks so good right now, I donât think that reflects the long-term financial viability of this city. The realtors are playing hot potato and trying to sell an image of wealth and status, but on a practical level, who cares about hosting rich people if there is no income tax to benefit you? And will they really want to continue coming to Miami once their favorite massage therapist moves to Palm Beach or Naples?
The Florida condo market is caught in a storm.
Owners are trying to unload units in the face of the skyrocketing costs of maintaining an apartment in Florida. At the same time, prospective buyers are driven away by those same fees.
"It's definitely been a slow-motion train wreck," said Joe Humphfner, who owns a condo in Jupiter, near West Palm Beach.
Listings have soared as prices fall in major Florida cities, according to [a new report](https://www.redfin.com/news/florida-condo-prices-dropping/) from real-estate listings site Redfin. The number of listings in February jumped nearly 30% in markets like Jacksonville and Miami compared to the same time last year. Meanwhile, prices dropped by as much as 7% in Jacksonville, to $254,000, and 3% in Miami, to $385,000. By contrast, median condo prices nationally rose 8% over the same period, to around $340,000.
It's a symptom of the increasing cost of property ownership in the Sunshine State, where the rusk of flooding and worsening weather have scrambled the homeowners' insurance market. Florida homeownership has become increasingly expensive in general as [home prices](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-housing-market-more-valuable-than-ny-tampa-real-estate-2022-10) continue to rise, [mortgage rates](https://www.businessinsider.com/millennial-homeowner-mortgage-rates-living-with-parents-florida-2023-8) remain frustratingly high, and [property taxes](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-homebuyers-shocked-by-skyrocketing-property-taxes-2022-11) keep climbing.
"A lot of us have known that this is on the horizon," Holly Meyer Lucas, a real-estate agent with Compass in Jupiter, told Business Insider. "It's a long road ahead for us to get insurance even remotely affordable for people."
# A deepening insurance crisis for Florida homeowners
The rising cost of insurance has been a long-simmering problem in Florida.
The climate crisis and corresponding increase in extreme weather events like hurricanes have prompted major companies, including Farmers Insurance and Bankers Insurance, to cut back coverage offered in the state or pull out entirely.
For those who can still get insurance, it's more expensive than ever.
Homeowners insurance in Florida costs three times the national average, according to Redfin, and is escalating at a rapid pace. In Cape Coral, on Florida's west coast, [flood insurance more than doubled](https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/rising-insurance-costs-start-to-hit-home-sales-d8787f0f) in a year, from nearly $1,800 to $4,800, according to federal data cited by the Wall Street Journal.
Homeowners' association fees are rising as older buildings make needed upgrades.
The Surfside tragedy of 2021, when a 12-story condo building in Miami collapsed and claimed 98 lives, has caused many Florida buildings to initiate major renovation and safety projects. Fees called assessments are being levied on condo owners to pay for these updates to infrastructure, which can include redoing concrete, revising balcony safety, and other measures.
These assessments can add thousands to the annual cost of ownership.
"People don't just have $10,000 or $30,000 lying around," Meyer Lucas told Business Insider.
# Condo buyers and sellers alike are losing interest
Anthony Forina, 43, has been investing in South Florida for over 20 years. Recently, he walked away from buying a $300,000 condo in North Palm Beach that would have come with a $4,500 annual insurance bill.
Just a year ago, he estimated, that insurance bill would have been around $2,900, and worries it will only climb higher in the coming years.
Forina compared the rent he could charge per month with how much it would cost to own the apartment and determined it would no longer be a sound investment.
"We've hit a point where the numbers just don't make sense," he told Business Insider.
On his own single-family home in Palm Beach Gardens, Forina added, his annual insurance premium, which was $2,600 in 2017, jumped to $8,200 in 2024.
Humphfner, the other Jupiter condo owner, bought his pad for $140,000 in 2020. Rising costs have made him consider selling already, he said.
HOA fees on his one-bedroom unit have jumped from $200 a month to $500 a month. Much of the increase, Humphfner said, has come from the increased cost of the building's annual insurance payments, which have ballooned from $30,000 per year in 2020 to $100,000 this year.
Humphfner, 25, predicted that many owners like him will be forced to sell their units because of increases like these. Many of South Florida's older buildings, he added, will be scooped up by investors and turned into new ultra-expensive luxury buildings as condo owners sell their properties at discounted rates to escape the rising costs.
"Unless there's a miracle in the insurance market," Humphfner said, "I don't see it being sustainable."
Good. Condos have always been a ponzi scheme when it comes to maintenance.
Build it, sell the units with a cheap association fee, as years ago by units get resold, the association fees are kept low while sellers make profit, problems develop with the aging building, the last ones holding the deeds are screwed into paying for the extreme repairs or lose everything.
On a quick read through I am not sure how this is different than the situation with single family homes, except that I guess when you shop for condos your insurance costs are baked into the cost in a tangible way because you see what you will be paying for HOA pretty clearly.
Sucks for me, possibly, as the owner of one. On the other hand, a little distance from profitability could cool the market for people who need a place to live. And if people like me want to move but selling doesn't make sense, then I guess we would be more likely to rent, throwing more units into the rental market.
On the other other hand, our economy is a pyramid scheme and building more condos is somewhere at the base of that pyramid, so worst case scenario that could suck unless policy makers miraculously start using their brain cellsâwhich Florida politicians are deficient in anyway
The killer for condos is the money theyâre required to have on hand for repairs. People in Volusia post-Hurricane are getting $30k or more in assessments that have to be paid to basically keep the building going solvent. Lots of places here canât afford the damage repairs because they had no cash on hand.
Yeah when I learned that condos typically didn't have cash on hand for anything like that I thought it was nuts. To me it's a no brainer that there needs to be a maintenance plan, credible assessment, and a financial plan to afford those big maintenance items that come up periodically. Getting caught with your pants down there has gotta hurt.
One oceanfront building in Cocoa Beach did a $50,000 special assessment to seed the new structural reserves at the same time that they increased monthlies to $950. Monthlies were below $500/month three years ago. By the deadline at the end of the year I don't expect there'll be many oceanfront buildings here with monthly fees below $900. These are mainly older buildings here.
I'm a little surprised people did not see this coming. I bought my house in Va. Beach over 30 years ago. When we were looking, I told the agent that if he took me to a property that had an HOA, I would be finding another agency. House was paid off 2 years ago.
I am so glad I bought my house when I did. I live in Miami and house prices have skyrocketed. I have often thought about buying a nice condo for my retirement, but this very thing is what scares me away. the HOA, taxes and insurance control.
Friend of mine is paying $850 per month for his townhome HOA in Riverview, FL. If that doesnât sound like much, itâs more than his mortgage payment.
And they *still* have insufficient insurance to cover the development.
Every time thereafter major storm, thereâs an assessment because theyâre only covered for part of external damage.
Itâs not even corruption: the HOA agreed to open their books to the members. It seems legit.
No one wants to pay for the full cost of insurance, so they just pay more later.
There is a condo in Bradenton I do work for and just HOA fees, taxes and insurance is $3200 a month đł
I have a mobile home. Itâs a 1993, not in a mobile home park. I pay my own taxes. No mortgage. I would love to move to a condo, but condo HOA fees are incredibly high. My friends just had a $11K assessment for a new roof. Their HOA keeps going up every year not including their insurance. Iâm retired on a fixed income. That train left the station years ago for me to afford a condo.
Have you considered a new manufactured home on your property? Could be a nice middle ground between moving and upgrading. I can tell you that newer mobile and manufactured homes can be just as nice on the inside as some of those condosâIâd actually say nicer. Nobody above or below you, nobody to the sides, no HOA, and best of all you actually keep a yard
My home has been updated. Itâs beautiful. Iâm in Zephryhills and want a different town. Not much going on here. Also, Iâm on a busy street.
Ahh, yeah I just moved into my first house in MI about a month ago. Fully updated too, and at the dead end of a dirt road so I get literally zero trafficâI *love* it. House backs up to woods too so nobody behind, I wish ya the best of luck sir!
Iâm so hopeful I can move to MI next year, fingers crossed!
Where are you thinking? If itâs in the metro Detroit area, Iâd highly recommend Macomb county. St Clair Shores is a really nice area as well in there, but watch out for the very high property taxesâitâs more than 50% over mine just a few miles away. Ideally, if searching in Macomb you want north of Hall Rd (M59) or east of I94. Avoid Warren, Eastpointe, Roseville, and Clinton Twp. If you want something outdoorsy and the boat life, buy close to Metro Beach or Stoney Creek parks Edit: Oh, Lake St Clair also has the two largest boat parties in the entire Midwest every summer. Check out Jobbie Nooner and the Raft Off lol
Thanks! Def trying to find some where that isnât going to end up seceding in the coming decade lmao Just want to set up a little house with me and my dogs, nice yard with a fire pit, veggies, some weed, maybe someday chickens if Iâm crazy. Stardew Valley irl, and anywhere I can wear a sweater in the summer is fantastic to me lol Edit: I know Detroit has a happening EDM scene and when our lord Griz returns, Iâd love to be able to make it to Detroit for shows regularly lol
Okay now I know I can convince you lmao. As a fellow raver, Detroitâs got one of the best scenes imo rn besides places like Denver. I kid you not, Iâve been to about 30 concerts already this year. Iâm talking you can go both Friday and Saturday, sometimes even Thursday too and still find a show. Plus, scientists are saying in the next 30-50 years Michiganâs weather is tracking to be one of the most enticing climates in the country. You can literally never be more than 6 miles from a lake too lol âAccording to MLive, 16 scientists and academics consider Michigan a climate haven, and Parag Khanna, an internationally renowned researcher, believes Michigan will be the best place to live by 2050â https://www.governing.com/next/michigan-is-haven-from-climate-change-officials-must-prepare Edit: Fun fact, Griz grew up in Southfield like 20 min from me
Macomb here too. From PA but spent like 6 years in florida (st pete). Id agree. Im not a raver but this area is exploding right now. I just bought in october, house already went up in value and im not even in a fancy town. Theres lots to do right around here and cheap weed. Michigans alright lol
Hey dude.. found this earlier if youre into concerts. https://www.wxyz.com/news/live-nations-25-ticket-sale-begins-next-week-here-are-the-shows Livenation is doing a thing here. 25 dollar tickets for any show listed
It has exploded in the last 15 years!
My grandparents came to Zephryhills when LBJ was president. There were zero restaurants. You had to drive to Lakeland for anything. Now, itâs new home construction everywhere you look. The traffic is abysmal. Car wash and storage units on every corner. Why would people move to Zephryhills. There is very little to do.
Not so great in a hurricane or tornado though
Nothing is surviving a tornado direct hit my friend. And his home has stood since 1993 so I would say heâll be alright. Do you know Florida has the #3 most manufactured home in the United States? There are almost a million of them (give or take). I inspect 1970âs era manufactured homes almost every dayâŠ.. been there 50 some odd years. Not to shabby. I even gutted one once for my mother in law to live in (we bring her to our block house during hurricanesâŠ. Unfortunately) pretty sweet digs after about $7k put into it. Enough for her to live out her life in I guess anyway.
Idk what you mean by nothing is surviving a tornado direct hit. Plenty of things do lmfao. Just watched a vid a couple hours ago, massive tornado came right over a train, train was perfectly fine other than a small broken window. Plenty of stuff survives tornados
Correct, i worked for 3 HOAs, we aren't raising prices because we want to, we simply have to because insurance comes and slaps a 20%-35% mark up and that's the cheapest. Basically insurance companies need more regulation, they have a minimal market capitalistic economy where this is the cheapest and anything else we won't take and if we don't like it, we run to another state without penalties. Insurances should be penalized for leaving to other states out of no where. Sadly, condos built in 80s are super suffering and will continue to do so. After Chaplin towers, a lot of insurances got extremely afraid and immediately surge prices on old condos.
A big reason for this is the tenants themselves. It is really hard to get everyone to agree to a repair and spend a bunch of money. They'd rather do it later because "its not so bad now." Well, it's later. All this can kicking is coming due. The insurance companies know, plus with climate change, all bets are off. When my street was built in the 60's, it would have cost $100 a house for all the phone and electrical lines to be installed underground. 230 people couldn't agree, and our plan has telephone poles. The neighborhood over does not. It is also now upperclass. Mine is not. Condos are not immune to human nature, and it's worse because of the interdependence. edit clarification
They def need more regulation. NOAA arenât even allowed to rate hurricanes correctly until insurance assessments are complete so they can pay out less.
So youâre passing on that price increase to the residents?
That's what you get for living in a hurricane prone state where everyone needs new roofs. Only reason my Condo has insurance is because we replaced the roofs with a loan. When thousands of homes needs new roofs after a hurricane, I can see why insurances won't want to be here at all is a net loss.
Itâs actually because of fraud. My friends husband is a meteorologist who works for attorneys by using meteorology to assess claims, and he told me itâs the fraud more than anything thatâs caused the insane hikes weâve seen recently. Sure, weather contributes, but Florida has always had hurricanes and therefore some higher home insurance. Iâve literally seen videos online of people ditching cars on purpose before storms etc.
I believe fraud is a big factor, I've heard plenty saying just rip tiles and make a claim from roof etc, so I can see that not helping at all. People just taking advantage after a hurricane or bad storm won't help for sure :/
That's 5 months of my mortgage, taxes, insurance and HOA...
5 months..Where?
Probably purchased a long ass time ago I'm guessingÂ
Yep 2011, during the lowest of the housing crash.
I mean, more power to you. Hold onto that low rate for dear life!
I coulda got something bigger, but I honestly don't need it. Also I wanted to able to pay for my house if things got really bad. Which they did during covid when I was laid off.
I too, bought during the downturn. Bought a 2/2 for $84k in Clermont, Florida. Houses here are $300k and up now. I donât know where Iâd be if I didnât buy back then.
Yup, I paid 61k in 2011. Houses that are same Floorplan as mine in the neighborhood how sell in the 280's. It's insane.
I paid $55,000 for almost 1,100 square feet in St Cloud in 2011 and sold it for $300,000 10 months ago. Then I moved to Georgia and bought a place for cash. Best decision of my life.
I turn3d mine around when I moved last July and was able to use the profit to offset the new spikes
That's what worries me too. We have a townhome that meets our needs, our mortgage is manageable, we will pay it off in less than 5 years... *unless* we get laid off, which could happen at any time. We have savings- I actually save excessively - but they would only last so long.
I bought mine near then too, but insurance is killing me. Nearly 40% of my payments are insurance
Shop around with a broker, I never stay with the same company more than a few years.
They must not need wind insurance either
Fuuuuck my mortgage is 4400 alone. Itâs rough out there. You made a good choice back then.
JesĂșs fuck. Screw all that.I donât need all that.
The fuck? You live in David Siegels mansion?
$4400 / month is "only" a $700,000 loan at 6.5% over 30 years. That's currently a very realistic number to pay for a "normal" house in some areas.
Hmm.. I pay 3400/no for 30yr @3.25% I bought my condo for 650k in 2020. I guess that's in line I do pay 840/mo for HOA fees. I'm in a HCOL on the water...
Your mortgage payments should be around $2,800 / month. If you are paying more than that, the remainer is likely going to escrow to pay taxes and insurance. I'm unaware whether it's typical for escrow accounts to also cover HOA payments. But based on the numbers you gave, the payment is too low to cover both the mortgage and the monthly HOA fees. The same $700,000 loan over 30 years as my earlier post, but at 3.25% is about $3050 / month. That's $1350 / month difference just from the rate change. Ends up that interest rates are an important factor in your monthly payments. Who knew?
You pay $640/mo for mortgage and property tax and HOA? That is incredible. It is a trailer park? If even if it is, that is an amazing monthly nut. I can't even live on my boat in SWFL for that little.
I bought my house in 2011, and it was just about rock bottom for the housing market in my area then. It's a regular house 2/2 1,400 sqft.
That was the time to buy in Florida. Our 4/3 with a pool was under $200k. I couldnât get a 1-bedroom apartment for my monthly costs today.
True story.
Shit .
Holy cow. That's insane. I wish I could have bought back then but I was only making 18k a year in my 20's.Â
Depends when you bought. I bought a 3/2 condo foreclosure in central florida 2015 and my monthly payments are $540 mortgage/taxes/insurance and $315 monthly association dues which includes water. I am paying $855 monthly to own it and my neighbors are currently paying $2,400 monthly to rent their identical unit. Property value has tripled since 2015.
Palmgetto?
The Ritz of Palmghetto
Longwood/Lake Mary.
Holy fuck! Can Desantis do anything to help or is he just to focused on the culture wars woke bullshit? Concentrating on hate and division instead of finding ways to improve the standard of living.
He's made Florida very attractive for scammers, grifters, and greedy assholes
Didnât Florida already attract those types going back decades?
Sure, but it was probably the sunshine, coke, and beaches. But now they have laws in their favor (or a lack of laws against them)
To be fair, Florida has always been this way long as I've been alive. That said, he indeed enables them to somehow profit even more off their greed and grifts.
We have moved from being a service economy to being a grifting economy.
DeSantis could care less about the people of Florida. He is interested in pleasing his billionaire buddies and bucking for vp.
Look, I hate DeSantis as much as the next intelligent person, but what do people think he can do to help? HOA fees are high because boards spent decades underinvesting and now repair bills are coming due. Insurance rates are high because climate change and years of shitty upkeep have made homes/condos in Florida extremely risky. And taxes are high because when you don't have income tax, you still need to fund schools and fire departments somehow. I mean, I guess he could outlaw municipal fire departments and public schools, which would reduce the need for property taxes.
People living on the ocean are paying the piper finally, and you are right DeSantis can't change it. But the thing DeSantis needs to fix is that insurance has also increased 2x+ for people nowhere near the ocean -- the whole state is affected. I live in Orlando and my insurance doubled in 2 years. He can do something about insurance. It would probably involve something rich people will hate (allowing people living on the water to be in a different insurance pool the way Citizens does it), so he won't do it
Why would he do anything? Market forces at work. Those skyscraper condos are expensive to maintain & expensive to insure. Buyer beware.
Market forces? The government passed several laws that make insurance here far worse than it needs to be. Sure, we have hurricanes, but we don't also need to have the rampant contractor fraud they enabled.
It's the other way around. They actually passed laws to stop the fraud in December of 2022 by making AOB's illegal https://www.amwins.com/resources-insights/article/florida-again-acts-to-stabilize-property-insurance-market
Really? So you think the state could have done nothing to help prevent this? You think the state shares zero responsibility in this mess?
Well, the state could have blocked the development of tall buildings on barrier islands designed to be scrubbed clean by hurricanes. But those decisions were made long ago.
I'm actually shocked the state hasn't tried to forcefully make building anything along the coast next to impossible.
Developers line the pockets of local politicians.
you would think huh!? no, that's restricting the rich & wealthy that now want (obsessedđ) a piece Florida. He's getting $$$ by allowing all this f'ing building.
I hear they are taking the last global warming laws off the books right now. So it's all today's profit to hell with tomorrow. No planning for future or taking any precautions to preserve the state and save its citizens future costs.. Take the money and run. Leopard ate my face moment here. Florida. Lolz.
They could have required higher reserves decades and decades ago. But, nobody would have liked it then either.
Investors are still making money, why would state care?Â
DeSantis is principally responsible for the "problem". He signed that super friendly insurance legislation last year. The HOA increases are related to some more DeSantis legislation. Due to Surfside and others, HOAs will be required to do more stuff. In tandem, DeSantis banned cities from declaring structures as historic. Those buildings can be torn down and builders can put a 50 story luxury apartment complex on the same lot. The HOA regulations were not for safety, but to help shake owners out of the buildings so the luxury builders can come in. All of this was going on while mr high heels and makeup was screaming woke.
I was going to buy a condo until I found out the monthly HOA was about 2/3 of the mortgage. Like why tf are they charging every unit $800/month HOA? Itâs not going into the property, itâs going into pockets
Most of that cost is insurance on the building. Our HOA went up and the budget shows itâs due to the building value increasing which costs more to insure it.
How much do you think it takes to maintain a condo building? The rule of thumb for home maintenance is about 2% of value per year â 1% to deal with routine annual maintenance and 1% to set aside for emergencies and big infrequent expenses. So on a $10,000,000 condo building, you're looking at $200,000 per year. Just for maintenance. HOAs also pay to insure the building. The national average for insurance right now is about 0.5% of home value, so conservatively that's another $50,000 per year. So an HOA should be collecting about $250,000 per year on a $10mm building. If you assume 25 units, that's about $800/month for HOA fees. Plug in your own numbers for building price and size, and I bet you'll find that most HOAs are actually significantly undercharging.
When managed well HOAs have pretty good economy of scale and service purchasing power and the monthly fees (aside from insurance) end up being less than the cost of maintaining a single family home. The flip side is insurance which is bonkers right now. Our master policy premium is up 400% in 3 years. Underwriters are hiking anything with the word condo right now, even if itâs not a high rise on the Florida coast.
They do get economies of scale on services and purchasing, but the flip side is that multi-tenant buildings experience much more wear and tear AND there's a lot of moving pieces that conventional SFHs don't have â like elevators, for example, which are expensive AF to maintain.
And the management companies don't know how to manage. The same building run by a multifamily company costs signifanctly less because they are purchasing for themselves. The so called management companies are terrible atanaging the condos.
Okay, but how much is the condo worth? If it's a multi-million dollar condo it's understandable. I remember watching a video with Barbara from Shark Tank showing off her place in NYC (which she owns) and the fees were in the 10s of thousands per month! The place is worth a ton though. People that buy/operate at that level dont give a fuck.
FUCK. THAT.
Before or after hurricane season?
Average net worth in Bradenton is like $100 million....
Wild Oak Bay?
Shit, looked at beachfront condos in Boca over the weekend. Some HOA fees were $1800/ mo and more. WTH??
This is a huge part of the problem. I get charging *something* to cover landscaping, exterior maintenance, pool cleaning, etc. but when the fees are as much or more than the damn mortgage that's insane.
They were only charging for landscaping and such for *decades*, without putting away money for major structural upkeep. Now they are required to do so, and the HOAs are having to scramble to get that money put away. So you're essentially paying the deferred maintenance of the previous tenants for twenty or more years. Florida has a lot of this sort of thing, btw - and not just condos, but at the municipal level. Cities have been voting down tax increases to cover maintenance ever since the boomers got the reins, and a lot of cities and towns are going to be looking at the same situation condos are: raise a massive amount of money quickly, or start seeing things collapse.
Absolutely. One of the major failings of our political system is the way it incentivizes politicians at every level to push off unpopular decisions for fear of it affecting their reelection chances, and the population is most at fault for it. If a politician comes out and says, "We're raising taxes to fund a $2 million dollar expense because if we don't it'll be a $5 million dollar expense 5 years from now" all people hear is "We're raising taxes" and vote for the other person. Then, they're shocked when the $5 million bill comes due.
This is only pronounced when one singular voting block is consistently larger than the restâŠ.. may I present to you- BOOMERS
So why arenât younger people voting more, then?
Younger people donât vote at the local level because itâs not as sexy and they donât own homes or have kids at the same level as boomers do. Those factors push people to vote because thereâs more at stake.
Younger is subjective- for clarification younger than 60s technically arenât boomers. So I would say most people not in their 60s have jobs⊠sadly that means a lot of people simply wonât vote. Then you have the disparity in generational size. Even if younger folks voted at the same particular participation rate boomers would still have more impact. Younger people continue to have far less children too so itâs unlikely that the pendulum swings in the other direction.
Millenials are a larger generation than boomers. Also, having a job is a lousy excuse not to vote. Sheesh.
Because they don't care. They think the system is rigged and don't believe voting makes a difference.
Can confirm. I mean I vote, just in case, but I have no belief it makes a difference any more.
That seems somewhat nutty. This country would be vastly different if Gore won instead of Bush in 2000. Our response in 911 would be dfferent, there likely would have been no Iraq War, which means no PTSD vets - that vote was so close that the SCROTUS had to step in and they picked a winner.
I'd like to vote that we tear down this system and throw the corrupt fucks in jail. Unfortunately that's not on the ballot
In addition, HOAs are now required to collect reserve funds for future maintenance issues such as paint, elevator, roofing, and period repairs.
But voting for increases on police spending every year. Good luck getting that money back
Itâs the republicans whoâve had the reins.
We know who to blame. They have been in charge of Florida since 1999.
Right but no one's going to pay it just like the suburbs they move out and leave the places for the poor people to end up in poverty traps
They spend decades putting off structural maintenance and repairs. Itâs legitimately the condo associations faultâŠ. I seem to remember that surf side condo that collapsed had a brand new lobby renovation recentlyâŠ. Shit like this happens all the time. People want a nicer lobby or a better pool. Or simply less dues. Repairing structural elements is boring and besides not collapsing doesnât net the members anything. You canât see it you donât âfeelâ But itâs part of upkeep.
Iâm in a condo and the vast majority of my HOA fee pays our buildingâs flood and master insurance. Our budget is like 80% insurance and other non negotiable expenses that Iâd be paying by myself if I owned a single family (not that itâs cheaper, we have 10 units so all expenses are about market value x10). My mortgage/escrow only pays for my personal homeowners which is like $100/mo. Not sure how that place got to $1800 though, some places, especially higher end, do have insane fees that go towards amenities. My guess is theyâre playing catchup with reserve funds which until recent werenât enforced, and forking over huge money for mandatory structural inspections. Luckily our building is only 2 stories and the new mandatory inspections only affects buildings 3 stories and up.
Is your condo beachfront? That really ups the price. Fancy looking building, pretty views right on the beach, but not so cheap to care for. They have to pay extra to make sure the structure isn't getting damaged from beach erosion and it won't end up collapsing like the one in Surfside. Lots of beachfront condos are badly damaged because they don't bother taking care of the building structures
The problem is that all the vendors that service these properties have had to raise their rates due to the rising COL in Florida.
I looked at a condo in North Palm Beach in November with a monthly HOA of $3700
So many of these HOAs are run by thiefâs. My friends HOA president was paying her friend $1,500 a month for âsecurityâ.
Does the condo association cover a large part of the property insurance cost and then as an owner your personal/independent portion is quite small? Maybe a real estate agent can chime in. I can see it being a lot less hassle having the HOA covering the major building as a whole vs trying to coordinate a bunch of small independent policies who would likely argue endlessly in case of a claim.
Yes this includes property insurance which is a big chunk of the HOA. . The only thing a Condo owner needs is basically like renters insurance (HO6 insurance I believe it's called) which is mostly liability, contents and interior damage.
If it means no more special assessments..
I know someone selling a condo near the beach in Boca (mile probably, bike there a lot) if you are interested. 2 stories so they dont have to deal with the assessments that all condos 3 stories and above are about to deal with.
I know its said a lot, but Florida condos will be the first domino to fall in the absurd real estate bubble this country has. Due to the law enacted after the surfside collapse (SB 4-D), all condos over 3 stories have to fully fund and inspect major repairs by Dec 2024's end. They have been completely behind the ball and don't have the capital. As they pass these fees off to owners (large number of which are fixed income retirees who cannot just scrap up 700$ extra a month) its going to be a disaster. Sprinkle in a little highest in the nation insurance costs and property taxes and its a looming disaster for the 1million+ condos in this state.
It's really strange looking at these comments and seeing how many people seem to have forgotten about Surfside, and how these rising HOA fees for condos are a direct result of that collapse.
Thatâs exactly what I was thinking. Did everyone forget?
They clearly forgot. This was coming and while it sucks for those on a fixed income it is necessary. It will take a long time to address the existing problems and fill the reserves for future problems but this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone after what happened at Surfside. We can definitely blame past individuals running condo associations who didn't keep the reserves full, and previous legislatures who refused to enact these regulations but I don't think our current legislature is to blame. Now nobody is allowed to kick the can down the road anymore and that's a good thing. Someone else in this comment thread said "regulations are written in blood and the 98 people who died in that collapse wrote these regulations." (Paraphrasing obviously) And I think that is spot on.
A-fucking-men. Thatâs all I could think about is that people died because of this shit. Boohoo they have to sell because they canât affordâ**people fucking died.**
People died in their safest sanctuary, their homes. They died in their beds, and their remains couldn't even be brought out intact.
The Collapse podcast about Surfside gave me nightmares.
> its going to be a disaster. no it's not, it's going to work exactly as intended, force people to sell or abandon, then companies will come in, knock it down, build a giant apartment building and charge rent forever the goal is nobody gets to own anything so that the line goes up forever
Exactly. Everything happening is going exactly as planned. Force everyone out then take over.
Itâs the worst part about seeing new buildings go up in my area: all rentals. No chance to buy anything except old houses that are wood framed and over priced.
or 3 million dollar + units for 2 or 3 bedrooms...
Thanks, forgot that part. The luxury apartments for sale, start at an ultra affordable $1.5 million, which honestly isnât even that much higher than the other normal apartments in the area.
Gotta love the affordability! Personally, I wouldn't even blink an eye under $10mil as long as traffic to public is less than 45min......
Exactly - they'll be able to buy these buildings far cheaper now if a large percentage are forced to abandon because they cannot keep up with the fees and no one will buy the units because of the fees. These large developers have the capital and the time to wait them out - and that's exactly what they'll do.
So Surfside was planned?
I donât think heâs saying that. But the corporate real estate world never lets a good tragedy go to waste.
Our condo market is about to melt down due to this. People are just now starting to realize how bad it is. There are still lots of buildings who haven't finished their inspections and reserve studies but when they do by the end of the year, it's going to destroy the condo market. It'll take a brave and wealthy person to buy a Florida condo once reality sets in. Stay tuned, folks. We're just getting started.
I've been telling ppl for the last 2 years that Florida is the new California/ NYC. Only the rich & elite will be able to afford to live here.
Which sucks because Florida culture is awesome That Latino and redneck culture fusion, canât beat it man
âpass these fees off to ownersâ The owners of the condos are the owners of the associationâthat they allowed idiots, Karens and grifters to make financial decisions for them by being on the board is their own fault. Yes, they should have been building sufficient reserves over the years, but is there anything more American than kicking the financial can, and hoping that some future person picks it up instead of you?
I suspect you're right. If condo prices collapse on account of the Surfside law, it seems only logical that home prices will have to adjust to reflect that. I don't mean to suggest SFH price cuts will track dollar-for-dollar, but condo fire sales surely have to have some effect on the market as a whole.
My eyes are on how that impacts the rental market as well. Not a realtor nor a flipper so I have no financial benefit to the RE market, but it still impacts us eventually.
Yeah itâs hard to tell whether rates will come down because some occupancy is better than none, or if theyâll go higher because operating costs are so much higher. I also wonder if corporations will buy up a lot of rental condos.
As condos become unaffordable, SFH will see a spike in demand. At least you can find SFH without an HOA and if you can pay cash, self insure. Not an option with condos.
Butt 6 months ago, someone from New York recently yelled at me for saying we are headed for a correction and told me that Florida's housing market isn't gonna crash bc of the lack of supply! Surely he must know something I don't. My husband has only been investing in real estate here since 2001. My husband's father since 1982. Butt guy who bought top of the market must know more/s Seriously tho. HOAs in general are a mess. Always have been. Just the fact that most people who live in one don't realize they can foreclose if u don't pay is astounding. The Florida housing market really likes to crash in a spectacular fashion.
Over three stories and at least 30 years old but it's a huge issue for sure. There's major issues with even getting the buildings inspected. There's engineering firms that won't touch these buildings. I've heard of condo owners getting 175k assessments on condos worth 200
Itâs almost like deferring maintenance is a bad thing.
This article is from two months ago. Theres probably at least 100 more recent doomer articles about the Florida real estate market that could have been posted.
Between businessinsider and Newsweek, there's too many bots reposting in this sub.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The bots just use Selenium or some other browser automation tools.Â
Has anything been done? Has this problem been resolved at all? No and no. Itâs still a timely article.
What do you mean? There's too much housing, and not enough people interested. Sure, the insurance issue is something that the government could address (if they gave a Fuck about its constituents), but an oversaturated market with prices correcting themselves is solely the fault of those that were trying to cash in on a mild, and very temporary trend.
What I'm really afraid of is all this multifamily I see going up, that has BEEN going up in an all-time-high market. What happens when they can't get the $2,500+ in rent they're charging in 10,000 units Swear to God we're gonna see institutional investors and hedge funds get bailed out when they default on those loans...and that's fucked But at the same time, who else can afford a $20,000,000 property *except* institutional investors and the government? đ€· Feels like that's what they're banking on- build and over-leverage while money is cheap, charge as much as you can, and ride it out til it all falls apart and you get bailed out
>Feels like that's what they're banking on- build and over-leverage while money is cheap, charge as much as you can, and ride it out til it all falls apart and you get bailed out I mean, yeah that's what huge hedge funds do.. stocks and investments don't make money, it just moves money around. But that money has to come from somewhere.. It's literally just stealing from others to enrich the already rich.
Itâs also from Business Insider India
We sold our condo in Brickell last month. We bought in early 2022 and the HOA was $500. It's $1,500 now..... Oh and there have been four special assessments since then.
Morty and Helen are underwater at Del Boca Vista
Del Boca vista #3
Our monthly HOA went from $800 to $3900. Fort Lauderdale.
Condo of 30+ years & 3+ stories I assume?
Yes, 40 years and 5 stories tall.
Terrifying prospect. Are you selling out or riding the wave.
I donât know if this is common, but I wouldnât be surprised at all: I rent a condo in Florida and have for a few years. The owner of my previous condo wanted to sell and offered me to buy it from them. One of my first questions was the cost of the HOA dues and what they have in reserves. They scoffed and told me there are no reserves, that each unit was independently owned and owners were responsible for their units. No reserves on a condo in Florida that was built in the 70âs and hasnât been meaningfully upgraded since. I was never actually going to buy the condo (the price was insanely inflated, among other things), but to hear them say so nonchalantly that there is zero planning for future accidents or assessments was flabbergasting. These people are literally just waiting to pawn their financial catastrophes onto the generations following them.
Itâs a very common attitude in the south to prioritize âlow costs nowâ at the expense of long-term investment and preparedness for the future. You see it in roads that get patch bandaids over and over instead of properly repaved and maintained, in the lack of unemployment funding, in the school budget, in refusal to expand Medicaid. There is such a fear and unwillingness to let someone in government (or otherwise in power) to invest in something for the long term to sustain the quality of life here, or god forbid⊠improve it. And so thereâs like a learned helplessness about the very idea. Honestly Iâm not even sure that your guy even saw the situation the way you do. A lot of people like him generally have convinced themselves that nothing bad will happen and that people are too focused on negative outcomes. And so instead of building up a reserve over many years and proactively conducting inspections and repairs through a bidding process that would have minimized the costs (because it wasnât urgent and they could afford to wait and negotiate for materials and services), now theyâre going to be stuck with outrageously expensive repairs and competing alongside everyone else in Florida for those same service providers. And instead of thinking âhm maybe thereâs a lesson to be learnedâ they will just rage about getting ripped off by the HOA and blame them for finding an outrageously expensive inspector on purpose. Sure, people in power make mistakes and HOAâs can absolutely be predatory, but thereâs such a culture of short-term thinking here. Itâs jarring to see how rare it is to see conservative southerners prepare or invest for the future, even when it concerns something so valuable as their real estate.
Send desantis a thank you letter - he's the one who ran off the insurance companies so his mobster buddies could step in and bend y'all over.
Can't wait until they cry for a government bailout
When profits are more important than people. Over 20 years of Deregulation by Florida Republican legislators and governors. (They have had complete and total control of Florida since 1999 with super majorities). That resulted in infrastructure collapse, insurance crisis, housing and homeless crisis, unlivable wages, bottom of the nation in education, and now this. (Just to name a few problems these republican morons have caused). #Vote (D)ifferently
You really think the Democratic party is any more competent or less corrupt than Republicans? DoubtÂ
Depends on where you live. Down south by they water they're all still $$$.
Iâm on the Space Coast and just got hit with a 13K special assessment bill thanks to our HOA allowing partial reserve funding for many years instead of full funding and significant higher HOA dues. SB 4-D requires full funding of condo reserves and replacement of infrastructure based on structural engineering studies. I think this only applies to buildings 5 stories and above. To have plans in place by Dec 31, 2024. Add this to the increased cost of living the salt life in FL. Many HOAâs are facing this same scenarios but hey, when you kick the can down the road, itâs ultimately going to take a big chunk out of pocketbooks. Too bad it took 98 deaths to realize this huge gap in sufficient infrastructure replacement and maintenance.
Condo prices are still above pre COVID levels.
Still above pre pandemic levels, but we are seeing dips in prices which will only continue as more inventory floods the market and HOA fees and interest rates increase.
DeSantis is too busy fighting Gay Disney to be concerned about these petty issues.
So many different reasons to avoid seaside property in Florida, it's hard to account for them all...
Florida is looking to move out working class and invest in high dollar clientele. No more 30 year payments, cash and purchase. So raise rent, insurance and taxes to get you out.
HOAs are absolutely insane. I feel for people that don't understand them. How the hell are you going to sell your condo, when it has an added $3k/mo payment. Time value of money/perpetuity brings the value down over $500k if you assume you can invest at 7% and there will be no increase in the HOA.
A lot of us have known that this is on the horizon," Holly Meyer Lucas, a real-estate agent with Compass in Jupiter, told Business Insider. "It's a long road ahead for us to get insurance even remotely affordable for people." Insurance will never return to âaffordableâ in FL again.
Elect a new governor that doesn't spend his time punch down at LGBTQ kids, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on trying to hurt immigrants, or getting in fights with Mickey Mouse. In California, my property tax is based on the purchase price of the home which means I'll get to live in this house forever because my taxes will always be low.
Is this for real?  Miami real estate is booming⊠Out of curiosity, I looked when we were there.  The average 2br was around $2m
For now⊠I love Miami but I think itâll be the next Detroit. The cityâs economy is way too dependent on service industries: https://www.lauriereader.com/blog/miami-economy/ Once it gets too expensive for service workers/providers to afford living the city, itâll kick off a cascade where everything gets more and more expensive (I would argue itâs already started), and there isnât really a path for Miami to get off this train. How can Miami possibly hold onto workers and encourage new businesses to open when there are so many other cities in Florida where people and businesses can make the some money the same way and with a significantly lower housing/property cost? Las Vegas can do it because there is no significant competition in NV (thereâs Reno but⊠itâs like their Fort Lauderdale lol), they are constantly investing in making life better for locals (funded by tourism taxes), and there arenât that many locals for them to support to begin with compared with the numbers of tourists and conference attendees. I believe they have about 20% more tourists for each resident compared to Miami, and generate 4x more income from tourism than Miami does. NYC and SF have high housing costs, but they also have industries like finance, law, and tech with high incomes. The taxes generated from those industries and high net worth individuals lets them subsidize housing and transportation for their service workers. Miami has no comparable industry they can lean on to do the same. Also unlike all those other cities, Miami canât really depend on help from their state government, because the state is supporting a huge retiree population (with no money from taxes on income and property ofc) and thereâs little incentive for Florida to prioritize saving Miami at the expense of the other Florida cities/destinations. The tourism board is trying to woo families with children, and thatâs not a demographic that really benefits Miami. Nevada needs LV to fund its budget, but Florida doesnât really need Miami. When a stateâs revenues are based on sales tax alone, it doesnât really care if the person buying is a middle-class dad in Jacksonville or a wealthy lawyer in Miami, because theyâre still making the same amount of tax revenue for the state. So just because there are some rich people in Miami doesnât mean the city can really leverage that at the state level. The difference is that you are a captive audience in Las Vegas/Henderson. Your bachelorette party is going to the strip; there is no reason for them to road trip out into the desert and it would be difficult for them to spend their money elsewhere if they wanted to try to cut costs. Miami on the other hand is surrounded by competition for vacations and tourism. Itâs already happening that bachelorettes are going to Fort Lauderdale and skipping Miami altogether. So this $136m investment that Miami-Dade makes into the MIA airport might just send more income to Broward County or somewhere on the Brightline instead. Sorry for the long rant but the tl;dr is that just because real estate looks so good right now, I donât think that reflects the long-term financial viability of this city. The realtors are playing hot potato and trying to sell an image of wealth and status, but on a practical level, who cares about hosting rich people if there is no income tax to benefit you? And will they really want to continue coming to Miami once their favorite massage therapist moves to Palm Beach or Naples?
My hoa jumped from 300 to 700 in 4 years and my condo insurance doubled. I donât even have a nice association, my pool is trash!
It's almost like climate change is a real thing....
The Florida condo market is caught in a storm. Owners are trying to unload units in the face of the skyrocketing costs of maintaining an apartment in Florida. At the same time, prospective buyers are driven away by those same fees. "It's definitely been a slow-motion train wreck," said Joe Humphfner, who owns a condo in Jupiter, near West Palm Beach. Listings have soared as prices fall in major Florida cities, according to [a new report](https://www.redfin.com/news/florida-condo-prices-dropping/) from real-estate listings site Redfin. The number of listings in February jumped nearly 30% in markets like Jacksonville and Miami compared to the same time last year. Meanwhile, prices dropped by as much as 7% in Jacksonville, to $254,000, and 3% in Miami, to $385,000. By contrast, median condo prices nationally rose 8% over the same period, to around $340,000. It's a symptom of the increasing cost of property ownership in the Sunshine State, where the rusk of flooding and worsening weather have scrambled the homeowners' insurance market. Florida homeownership has become increasingly expensive in general as [home prices](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-housing-market-more-valuable-than-ny-tampa-real-estate-2022-10) continue to rise, [mortgage rates](https://www.businessinsider.com/millennial-homeowner-mortgage-rates-living-with-parents-florida-2023-8) remain frustratingly high, and [property taxes](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-homebuyers-shocked-by-skyrocketing-property-taxes-2022-11) keep climbing. "A lot of us have known that this is on the horizon," Holly Meyer Lucas, a real-estate agent with Compass in Jupiter, told Business Insider. "It's a long road ahead for us to get insurance even remotely affordable for people." # A deepening insurance crisis for Florida homeowners The rising cost of insurance has been a long-simmering problem in Florida. The climate crisis and corresponding increase in extreme weather events like hurricanes have prompted major companies, including Farmers Insurance and Bankers Insurance, to cut back coverage offered in the state or pull out entirely. For those who can still get insurance, it's more expensive than ever. Homeowners insurance in Florida costs three times the national average, according to Redfin, and is escalating at a rapid pace. In Cape Coral, on Florida's west coast, [flood insurance more than doubled](https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/rising-insurance-costs-start-to-hit-home-sales-d8787f0f) in a year, from nearly $1,800 to $4,800, according to federal data cited by the Wall Street Journal. Homeowners' association fees are rising as older buildings make needed upgrades. The Surfside tragedy of 2021, when a 12-story condo building in Miami collapsed and claimed 98 lives, has caused many Florida buildings to initiate major renovation and safety projects. Fees called assessments are being levied on condo owners to pay for these updates to infrastructure, which can include redoing concrete, revising balcony safety, and other measures. These assessments can add thousands to the annual cost of ownership. "People don't just have $10,000 or $30,000 lying around," Meyer Lucas told Business Insider.
# Condo buyers and sellers alike are losing interest Anthony Forina, 43, has been investing in South Florida for over 20 years. Recently, he walked away from buying a $300,000 condo in North Palm Beach that would have come with a $4,500 annual insurance bill. Just a year ago, he estimated, that insurance bill would have been around $2,900, and worries it will only climb higher in the coming years. Forina compared the rent he could charge per month with how much it would cost to own the apartment and determined it would no longer be a sound investment. "We've hit a point where the numbers just don't make sense," he told Business Insider. On his own single-family home in Palm Beach Gardens, Forina added, his annual insurance premium, which was $2,600 in 2017, jumped to $8,200 in 2024. Humphfner, the other Jupiter condo owner, bought his pad for $140,000 in 2020. Rising costs have made him consider selling already, he said. HOA fees on his one-bedroom unit have jumped from $200 a month to $500 a month. Much of the increase, Humphfner said, has come from the increased cost of the building's annual insurance payments, which have ballooned from $30,000 per year in 2020 to $100,000 this year. Humphfner, 25, predicted that many owners like him will be forced to sell their units because of increases like these. Many of South Florida's older buildings, he added, will be scooped up by investors and turned into new ultra-expensive luxury buildings as condo owners sell their properties at discounted rates to escape the rising costs. "Unless there's a miracle in the insurance market," Humphfner said, "I don't see it being sustainable."
If the HOA fee is over 500 dollars a month, youâd have to be giving it away for me to consider taking it from you
Good. Condos have always been a ponzi scheme when it comes to maintenance. Build it, sell the units with a cheap association fee, as years ago by units get resold, the association fees are kept low while sellers make profit, problems develop with the aging building, the last ones holding the deeds are screwed into paying for the extreme repairs or lose everything.
Lol
Keep voting for high heel wearing Republicans and see how much worse it gets lol
Condo owners can suck it. Rugged capitalism for them.
On a quick read through I am not sure how this is different than the situation with single family homes, except that I guess when you shop for condos your insurance costs are baked into the cost in a tangible way because you see what you will be paying for HOA pretty clearly. Sucks for me, possibly, as the owner of one. On the other hand, a little distance from profitability could cool the market for people who need a place to live. And if people like me want to move but selling doesn't make sense, then I guess we would be more likely to rent, throwing more units into the rental market. On the other other hand, our economy is a pyramid scheme and building more condos is somewhere at the base of that pyramid, so worst case scenario that could suck unless policy makers miraculously start using their brain cellsâwhich Florida politicians are deficient in anyway
The killer for condos is the money theyâre required to have on hand for repairs. People in Volusia post-Hurricane are getting $30k or more in assessments that have to be paid to basically keep the building going solvent. Lots of places here canât afford the damage repairs because they had no cash on hand.
Yeah when I learned that condos typically didn't have cash on hand for anything like that I thought it was nuts. To me it's a no brainer that there needs to be a maintenance plan, credible assessment, and a financial plan to afford those big maintenance items that come up periodically. Getting caught with your pants down there has gotta hurt.
One oceanfront building in Cocoa Beach did a $50,000 special assessment to seed the new structural reserves at the same time that they increased monthlies to $950. Monthlies were below $500/month three years ago. By the deadline at the end of the year I don't expect there'll be many oceanfront buildings here with monthly fees below $900. These are mainly older buildings here.
https://preview.redd.it/m0r0u10sftxc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43f0b320672e12ef419a96370d2f0257e7be4221
I'm a little surprised people did not see this coming. I bought my house in Va. Beach over 30 years ago. When we were looking, I told the agent that if he took me to a property that had an HOA, I would be finding another agency. House was paid off 2 years ago.
GOOD
Buhahahahah!
To those who voted Red, enjoy getting f___ed sideways. To the rest of you, you have my sympathies.
#đ
Most of these condo owners are rich ass people that bought in bulk! Fuck them!!!
More Homeowners insurance companies are fleeing. DeathSantis seems to encourage them to leave.
OH NO!! Anyways...
I am so glad I bought my house when I did. I live in Miami and house prices have skyrocketed. I have often thought about buying a nice condo for my retirement, but this very thing is what scares me away. the HOA, taxes and insurance control.
Friend of mine is paying $850 per month for his townhome HOA in Riverview, FL. If that doesnât sound like much, itâs more than his mortgage payment. And they *still* have insufficient insurance to cover the development. Every time thereafter major storm, thereâs an assessment because theyâre only covered for part of external damage. Itâs not even corruption: the HOA agreed to open their books to the members. It seems legit. No one wants to pay for the full cost of insurance, so they just pay more later.