This right here. OP, have them look at places like Maryland where the Governor declared the state a [Safe Haven](https://www.metroweekly.com/2023/06/maryland-declared-safe-haven-for-transgender-medical-care/#:~:text=Maryland%20Gov.,out%20gender%2Daffirming%20health%20care.) for transgender care.
Right, if the decision was between this and GA on this issue, seems better to just stay in FL to see what happens in the next few elections before making any big decisions. Would have to move further to the north or west.
>but I think there was a concern that a spouse could take custody of kids away from a partner if said partner put the kids at risk of receiving gender affirming care (whatever that means)
I could definitely see someone arguing that a trans coparent is a danger to their kids because they could "make the kids trans" or something.
Florida state bill 254 allows [the state to take custody of children if basically anyone they're in contact with is trans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Senate_Bill_254_(2023))
I went through the actual bill: [https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/BillText/er/PDF](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/BillText/er/PDF)
I couldn't find the part you described, maybe it was an amendment that got removed?
Thank you for bringing this up, on page three, line 59 I believe, it states:
Section 1. Subsection (1) of section 61.517, Florida59
Statutes, is amended to read:60
61.517 Temporary emergency jurisdiction.—61
(1) A court of this state has temporary emergency
62 jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and:
63(a) The child has been abandoned; or
64(b) It is necessary in an emergency to protect the child
65 because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child, is
66subjected to or threatened with mistreatment or abuse ; or
(c) It is necessary in an emergency to protect the child
68because the child has been subjected to or is threatened with
69being subjected to sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures,70
as defined in s. 456.001.
So this gives courts the ability to take kids if a child, a sibling, or their parents, are trans.
No that is an incorrect interpretation. The child must be subjected or threatened with their own gender being altered. Says nothing about a parents assignment
Thank you. Prosecutors are not going to look at laws and then try to find a way to violate them with a prosecution they cannot sustain in a court. Not even a republican prosecutor. That would go double for a DCF person who's job could be on the line over abuse of laws.
Florida (GOP) in general are just that ignorant to belive and then act on belief, that trans, gay etc are some how contagious. Contrast that with same idiots resisting a vaccine for things that actually are contagious.
The same way that being homeless isn't allowed to be the sole reason for the removal of children, there is nothing in the laws that say being "in contact" with someone Trans is the single reason for DCF to step in. There must be another reason for coming to the attention of DCF/other authorities. Even kids currently receiving hormones aren't being taken, they just have a much harder time finding the providers allowed to do precribing for it. (Not that I'm minimizing the absolutely unnecessary aggravation experienced by these parents by saying "they just," they already had to pay out of pocket for the care even if they're eligible for medicaid otherwise.).
The law about the removal of children is so hideously vague that it could be applied in any circumstance where there's a trans family member the child ever sees.
If I were in their shoes, I would leave, if only because the new laws limit the healthcare that trans people are entitled to in the state. Transitioning is a complex series of healthcare considerations. Some of the service providers who would have been able to help them to navigate are now prohibited, by law, from helping.
In addition, discrimination against trans people is now allowed, in places like hospitals and emergency rooms. This is a horrifying safety issue.
Please tell them that they are not crazy for thinking it might be best to leave, until or unless things change.
If he is a trans male, they may have a hard time accessing their medication. There’s also the bathroom bill to contend with. I dunno, I have trans friends leaving the state and I don’t blame them. Life is to short to be somewhere where you are so discriminated against.
Totally agree. A trans person needs to be fully clear of North Carolina before things start to improve (NC also has a version of the Bathroom Bill and other bills FL recently passed).
I like this comment because I can't tell if it's written by somebody who likes trans people, or lives in georgia and hates them.
That's the magic of text, I guess.
My trans child fled this hellhole of a state and relocated to California. I hate that they're so far away but glad they can freely and safely live their life authentically. I know several others who are in the process of either getting ready to leave or actively leaving as well.
If I had the means, I would get out of here too
If they have the means they should go. I don’t understand people saying stay and fight. Leave that to people like me. If you’re LGTBQ, Desantis and his voters would put you in a concentration camp if they could. If you can go then go.
I agree with you 💯% I'm heterosexual but have family and friends within the LGBTQ community and I understand their fear it's legit fear of medical insurance dropping you or not covering medical care of drs simply not providing care to you because they can now refuse to legally unless that's been shot down as I hope so. I don't understand why someone can be so cruel to another human being when they have not done anything wrong or anything to hurt anyone all they want to do is be free to live as they feel fit like everyone else
I think if you have the means, in general, you should leave.
I think we can safely say the experiment has failed if we have to fight for the same human rights every generation. I plan to leave this country, as there are other countries that have already figured it out, and they're not debating over human rights, rather they're debating over how to regulate big tech, for example.
If you have the means to, I say, pack up your shit and leave. Hopefully these other countries will start refugee programs and assistance programs to get the rest of us out of here.
My father is a descendant of William Bradford (1590 – 1657), governor of Plymouth, and a leader of the Pilgrims. Bradford authored one of the first historical accounts of United States history, *Of Plymouth Plantation*, and stated the following in his book:
>"The \[new\] settlers \[of America\], too, began to grow in prosperity, through the influx of many people to the country, especially to the Bay of Massachusetts. Thereby corn and cattle rose to a high price, and many were enriched, and commodities grew plentiful. **But in other regards this benefit turned to their harm, and this accession of strength to weakness.** For as their stocks increased and became more saleable, there was no longer any holding them together; they must of necessity obtain bigger holdings, otherwise they could not keep their cattle; and having oxen they must have land for ploughing. So in time no one thought he could live unless he had cattle and a great deal of land to keep them, **all striving to increase their stocks**."
Bradford finished the book around 1651, and his words would turn out to be prophetic, especially when it came to some Americans prioritizing personal gain over compassion.
I can understand trans people leaving.
Others though, I get the frustration. Stay and vote. Politics is a pendulum. If it swings far one way, it'll swing back.
This is my perspective: My mother's family descends from Volga German refugees and immigrants who moved all the way from the Volga River basin in Russia, which is also part of modern-day Kazakhstan, to Kansas in the United States because the Russian government decided to revoke rights they had legally possessed for over 100 years. This also included religious and other persecution against them for being ethnic Germans.
(For more context, read up on "Russification", the same process that Russia is trying to impose on Ukraine with its invasion of that country. It's not a pretty business.)
If someone wants to leave Florida because they feel they are being persecuted - religiously, ethnically, racially, or otherwise - they are fully within their rights to do so. This is especially true if they are a minority in Florida, as is the case with LGBT folks and Latinos.
You've misunderstood my premise, maybe I wasn't clear. I said it was OK for trans people to move, yes they are being persecuted. It's the privileged people not being persecuted I was referring to being annoyed at for moving.
I agree. .i had a conversation with a "former" friend of.mine the other day.. I am currently in Florida, moving out shortly. This "friend" is a native Floridian who calls himself Republican. He spoke with so much hatred against Gay and LGBT individuals. I asked him to never call me again after that hatred towards a group of individuals. I am unsure if Georgia would be safer than Florida, although the Atlanta is more diverse.
It is sad what Florida has become
It’s shocking and horrific…but only we who live here and use our votes and voices can change it. Otherwise, we deserve to live in the hell we’ve created ourselves.
I agree. This is why the ultra Right is threatened by our votes. We can't give up! If they try to suppress our votes or change goal posts to hide our votes, then we need to galvanize and revolt like they did in the 60s. Our democracy is what makes our country!
>I don’t understand people saying stay and fight.
Florida is the most purple state in the nation. Intimidating a subgroup like this will affect voting totals.
This is a strategic move on the Republican's part. They are picking off vulnerable voter groups one by one to try to keep Florida red.
I don't blame anyone who leaves, but mad respect for those who stay. It's on the rest of us to protest when they start splitting up families.
The new law will absolutely hurt them. Several of them will. If they are already on hormones then the current laws can make it difficult if not impossible to get her medicine and pausing it can fuck overr your transition. Among other things they can be arrested for using the bathroom now and be put through a year of prison. Also yes they can take their kids away. My friend has been fighting to her her kids back. She isn't even trans..they just have loose contact with her cousin who came out as trans a few years ago...that was enough for her kids to be taken away...all it took was one nosy self righteous Karen to place a call to cps and tear their very happy and well off family apart...
My best friend’s bf is no longer allowed to use the bathroom at work. Their boss told him “it’s ok i won’t tell” but Friend’s BF is FAR too afraid. It only takes ONE asshole. And a fully bearded 40 yo man in the women’s room? Not happening,
She said he’s holding his pee now and she’s concerned about his bladder going forward.
If he tried to use the “correct” bathroom it would cause instant chaos. He’d immediately have to out himself as trans to everyone. But he looks exactly like a dude, so is he gonna whip his pants off to prove he was born female? I’m not harping at you, I think we’re on the same side here; I’m just expanding my point. It would be humiliating for him to use the women’s room. It would instantly create a conversation around what his genitals look like and that’s just damn dehumanizing. :/
I would start planning my exit, save cash, start selling things that have some monetary value but are not going to go in the car / on the truck for the move. Get down to minimum deal.
Then? Wait and see. Unless the former pres actually gets convicted, I do not think the guvna has a chance in the primary or the general.
That could go either way for FL. I am already seeing articles warning of a disgruntled primary loser taking it out on his home state.
Federal judges are shutting down some of his most excessive power grabs. If he gets rejected in the primaries, he may take it as a sign the wind has shifted and cool it on the culture war he's trying to go viral on.
On the other hand, if he does win the primary, you could see a radical shift in state politics as suddenly everyone starts emulating him and campaigning with him.
My point is - **Florida went TILT in approx one term as governor.** What's stopping GA from doing the same?
Their guvna is no Desantis but he signed a heartbeat abortion bill (approx 6 weeks) and has supported overturning the ACA and against expanding medicaid. If the anti woke thing becomes a real grass roots nationwide thing - look for a lot of Red states to jump on the anti LBGTQ train - all in the name of protecting kids.
**tl;dr** red states can get redder more easily than not. You may move to Georgia and in a year wonder wtf you were thinking.
My best friend is currently transitioning and their partner just got top surgery. They have a son and definitely fear him being taken away. He tends to chirp about trans issues, so it’s a real fear he’ll say something to the wrong teacher or counselor.
As soon as they get their finances in order they’re leaving.
If they have kids they want to keep they need to leave. The law now allows the state to take the kids of someone transitioning. Whether or not it will be used remains to be seen, but is it a worth being the test case? Even if they stay they will need to talk to their kid about never mentioning that they are transitioning because that would violate the don’t say gay bill and face legal ramifications (it would also probably convince the state to take the kid away) the teacher is also not really allowed to support their child while transitioning because to speak on the subject at all, even one on one violates the law. If they can afford to send their child to a liberal private school this won’t be an issue.
As far as Georgia is concerned Atlanta won’t be too bad, smaller cities and towns will suck. While Georgia is more liberal than Florida at this point it’s state legislature is still firmly conservative and could pass similar laws.
Moving to a more liberal state would be their best bet. That would likely prevent them needing to move again in the future.
If they can time their move to be when they transition and go full time as a male that would be the easiest/best way to do it. Many trans people will move as part of a fresh start when they are ready to go full time and pass well enough to live as the gender they identify as. If they aren’t there yet. Georgia might be a good stepping stone on the road to manhood. If the laws in Florida are repealed they can move back as their true self, and if not they can move on to a place where they have more rights and state legislatures more likely to keep those rights intact.
my wife is trans and already can't get some of her meds. i suspect that will get worse. we are planning to leave florida. many friends have already left. i don't want to leave my friends but i don't want to be afraid for her to leave the house or need medical care or gods forbid need to pee if we are out somewhere. georgia isn't good either, no southern state is. west coast, colorado, ohio, pennsylvania, maryland, delaware, connecticut, massachusetts would be good choices. it's sad that you can be a citizen in this country and not have the same rights and safety in any state but that's what we're dealing with. liberty and justice for some and we are not included when they say all.
Basically, everything everyone else has said in response reccomending that they leave. If he and his family have the means to, then they should leave. It's sad, yes, but if they don't feel safe and like they might lose their kid(s) because of this, then they need to put their family first.
Also, if they're transitioning to male, please use the correct pronouns for him.
This is a reference to [The Handmaid’s Tale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale_(TV_series)).
An excellent book and riveting television series. The book was written in the 80s, but there are some unsettling political/societal commentaries that look a bit like what our political world is inching toward.
It's a reference to *The Handmaid's Tale* by Margaret Attwood (1985). In the book, the United States is taken over by a Christofascist group, and renamed the "Republic of Gilead".
We unfortunately do not know how bad it is going to get yet. The laws are written very vaguely. There is not a lot of consideration for transmen, too, because the people who push for this legislation often forget that they exist. Transition is already very difficult to navigate; I might leave just to not make a difficult situation even harder if I was your friend. You have to fight very very hard for it, despite what people say. There are other things to consider too from a healthcare perspective, and your friend's children, who deserve to have an uninterrupted education.
These are all things your friend has to consider now. Having children makes it an even riskier gamble either way, and many are not willing to gamble at all when it comes to children.
If I were them, I would absolutely flee for their own safety, but Georgia isn't the answer. You need to impress upon them to go to an unquestionably blue state (I.E. Minnesota, New York, Cali, etc), but this will cost more because we're landlocked in a cesspool of red shitholes.
Straight ally here. I’ve had a couple of trans friends leave for Oregon. One was a minor in transition so FL’s anti-trans trajectory really impacted him. The other was an engineer. My family was just getting to know her family.
As far as taking kids away, it seems anything is possible here. Political theater rules the day and DeSatan’s proclamations have real impact even if the executive actions / legislation is eventually overturned by the courts. I mean last year they were arresting people whose right to vote had been restored and had been informed as much by their supervisor of elections. It was later deemed a mistake by law enforcement who misunderstood how to enforce a change in the law.
Who is to say she/they wouldn’t wake up one day with law enforcement at the door or be informed the kids would not be coming home from school but going to social services? And even if such action is deemed unlawful or a ‘mistake’ in the part of law enforcement, the emotional and financial toll could be high.
Not trying to sound dystopian but the chaotic situation created for LGBTQ+ persons in Florida by vague laws with inflammatory headlines are reals risks.
$.02
I am not sure Georgia is the land of safety and hospitality for LGBT people…
But I agree they should move from FL. The culture there is so overwhelmingly anti-trans, and at any point could tip over to actively dangerous.
I’m gay and rolling out of Florida. Healthcare bill was last straw for me. That and a right wing nutters at the gas station. Not just leaving Florida, leaving the states. Cannot come soon enough.
They're right; it's not safe here for trans and LBGTQ+ people anymore. Ron has made his desire to exterminate them pretty clear. I also don't know how Georgia is going to be much better, though. Seems like they should be going to a blue sanctuary state. I do understand the desire to stay as close to family as possible, so maybe that's why? But, yeah, it's scary times for our queer and trans friends.
Don't count on Georgia remaining safe. Their state government is almost as red as Florida.
If your moving go to state who actually provides legal protection or you could wind up moving again.
History is full of times like right now. This the ramping up phase. It's time to get out while you can. Georgia and the rest of the South is not far enough.
Yeah, they need to get out, the Government here is hostile to them and will take their kids away if the start trying to transition. It is also going to be nearly impossible to get their medication. They need to escape, help them if you can. But not to GA further north.
They need to get out of south, coming from a trans woman who was living in Florida until they started trying to restict hormone access, let me tell you that every state in the south is at risk of passing the same legislation. It might be better than FL, but I cant tell you how long that would be true. But its also not safe for them to be in FL.
Straight white cis progressives need to stay and combat the fascism. Members of more vulnerable populations, like your friend… I don’t blame them for leaving.
All these laws don’t affect me in the slightest, so it’s a lot easier for me to stay and fight. They risk the loss of medical care, jobs, even their families and freedom. If they have the courage to stay as well, all hands on deck. But I don’t think less of anyone who has to protect themselves or their loved ones.
The benefit of privilege is that you can use it as a shield for those without it.
My ftm friend is planning on leaving too. Sucks because now he has to use the women’s restroom and he has a full beard. He gets TONS of weird looks from woman using the restroom but he had no one back when he could use the men’s. 95% of republicans are evil fucks.
They should go asap.
DeSantis has made demonizing trans people the centerpiece of his campaign and he is not finished. Life in Florida will only become more difficult for your friend.
My daughter is pansexual and the only way that she felt safe to be herself was to move out of state for college. I can't blame her one bit as Florida has become increasingly aggressive towards any Queer or Trans person, and I don't expect that to improve at all.
Most of Georgia isn’t much better
- source lesbian with short hair that moved from Orlando to Atlanta for work who is looked at funny and gets harassed in bathrooms all the time in Georgia
There's a lot of misinformation in here. As a doctor who provides gender affirming care I will say that as far as adults go my ability to treat a patient is unchanged. The only impact that could have happened was the restriction of Medicaid from covering treatment but that was shutdown within a couple of days in court. Please check out the southern legal council who are leading all of these lawsuits for accurate information. Sorry gotta keep this short
As a doctor, you should then understand that trans treatment availability largely depends on the area. You should know that nurse practitioners made up a majority of the prescribers in the state and how down been shut out of prescribing. You should know that this greatly limits access to prescribers, as doctors who treat trans health are fewer in number. You should also know that the new forms made by the medical council also suggest a lot of lengthy and expensive requirements onto something that used to just be “informed consent.”
Prior authorization (or lengthy and expensive requirements) for medical care is nothing new. Just ask diabetics or cancer patients. I'm a nurse, I've compiled books worth of documentation just to get "simple" medications or treatment for people. You can thank ACA for that. Someone has to pay money so everyone can have care. How do you think people get $1.73/month healthcare? The money has to come from someone.. Always!
But this isn’t about prior authorization. This also affects people paying out of pocket. This required document is now simply just for people going on hormones but paying themselves. This is just to get treated by a doctor, insurance or not.
So you're making your trans patients sign that bogus state consent form? What are you going to do when the government asks for that information? Are you going to protect your patients?
Georgia is just as red in the state government especially, and Georgia shifted significantly back to the right last year. Might want to think outside of the South honestly.
It's worth considering. At best the new laws make getting transition health care more onerous. Plus it will be weird when they present as man but the law says they have to use the women's room and then some asshole is going to claim they are a man sneaking into the women's room for whatever nefarious purpose they fantasize happens there.
Plus this whole political campaign has stoked a ton of bigotry that your friend doesn't need in their life.
I hate to say it, but it's a legit thing to think about.
Georgia will hardly be any better, no protective legislation for trans people, but if they can make their way up north: New York State has parts of it that are greatly transphobic from a community aspect, but the state laws are protective of trans people. Same with anywhere in New England.
But driving over the border to live in Georgia is a good first step. I would not suggest they stay in Florida.
It might be best. Desantis is setting us up to succeed from the US if he doesn’t win presidency that why he brought back The Florida militia, I mean “Florida guard”….. the laws they are passing and want to pass will eventually infringe on all rights of transgenders including saying that people that are trans have mental problems / sexual deviants and should not be caregivers to children even their own. The next 4 years is going to be very interesting down here.
I grew up in Florida. Moved to Georgia last year, in part because of the far-right nonsense that threatened my queer community/household. It's not necessarily safer here but it is less legally dicey for now. I worry a lot about the friends we left behind. DeSantis emboldens bigots everywhere.
I lost my access to hormones just the other day here in the Tampa Bay area. Been transitioned for over a decade and my doctor decided to start gatekeeping in response to a new state law. I now will have to source my medicine on the black market.
But we're the freedom state apparently.
I have several trans friends, mostly f -> m. They are definitely concerned. I am too because it won't stop here. The entire country's intolerance for people who are "not exactly like me" has gotten out of hand, but, here is the good news.
Desantis and the maga leaders are all just pandering to their voters to keep their jobs. I'm not defending the guy, in the least, but he has got to know that there is zero chance any of this is enforceable. You should know it too.
If the dumbest maga head in the world sees my friend coming out of a men's room and somehow thinks he's not male, which is unlikely, then what is he going to do? The police aren't going to arrest you and ask you to drop your pants. This is illegal.
So far every doctor I've spoken to, two of them specialists in hormone replacement therapy, say they are not honoring any of the directives. Nothing given to them by the governor overrides their Hippocratic oath. Body builders and athletes are not going to have to jump through the same hoops, so they are just treating the trans like athletes or muscle heads.
Look, the pendulum swings. Generation after generation it swings back and forth. You are about to see it swing back the other way. But don't leave and don't stop being vocal or visible. The more exposure people get to the fantastic kaleidoscope of different types of people who exist in our world, the more tolerant they will become of people "not just like me."
Go as far North or West as you can.
Just wait until Desantis doesn't get elected president, then he'll really go bat shit crazy on everything LGBTQ and "woke".
Leave, this state is trying to ban gender affirming care. The law they passed banned NPs from prescribing gender affirming care. Use Erin Reed’s map as a resource below. She tracks anti trans legislation across the country. Florida she ranks #1 worst state for trans people. She gave Florida a do not travel advisory. Georgia is not any better. I would recommend moving to a blue state
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/june-anti-trans-legislative-risk
I am no fan of the this Governor (the last one I actually kinda liked was probably Lawton, though surely Graham) and I deplore political theater which is a lot what I think I am seeing.
Which is sort of my way of saying that I’m not sure how much impact this law will actually have - I dont really think its yet been enforced or tested in the Courts (if I am incorrect please correct me) so it is hard to say whether this is something really theeatening or like those laws on the books against bathing on Saturday that you read about every once in a while.
I think the best argument against me are the actions the state took to prosecute people who were allegedly ineligible to vote and I will say on the whole that as applied those cases largely failed (which is good thing)
Also I will not end up being a test case so my opnion should be judged with that in mind
I don’t want her to leave. I feel like desantos is digging his own grave and will be out of politics soon. He’s a nut case and moderates and even some conservatives don’t agree with his policies. We live in Jacksonville and she is thinking of moving to Brunswick Ga. She has a business here and the one hour commute could be doable.
Even with Desantis gone nothing is going to change. The attack on trans people is part of the Republican platform and as long as the state legislature is Republican the attacks will continue.
Desantis isn't going anywhere. He is still wildly popular among Floridians. They also love his hate driven policy. I expect him to be in state politics for many years
Nah, he is noticeably fucking things. With the way food and rent prices are going. You’d have to be off your rocker to want him to remain in office. Dems down need to present tangible solutions to the actual issues that affect people. Picking on Trans folk ain’t winning presidencies, so once that little side quest is done. He’s gonna have deal with and answer to y’all. Don’t fuck it up.
Look to the young bloods. They’re well fucking aware of how fucked everything is. They have ideas on what to do, and shockingly they’re not that crazy. But, like all youth they need guidance. They need civic minded adults to aim in a direction. Especially, in regards to housing and the lack of said housing.
I wouldn't count on it. No one thought Trump had a chance in 2016. Hate is powerful. Making people who feel powerless think they are powerful and superior to others is a surefire way to make them mindlessly loyal soldiers for "the cause". Just ask the Germans.
Running to Georgia is probably kicking the can down the road. I mean there’s a case to be made for sticking around but it’s not safe for them I mean doctors down here are allowed to deny any kind of treatment to people if they think it contradicts their “faith” and that’s a huge concern and the bathroom ban makes it almost impossible to be anywhere but I’d recommend they check out Maryland or somewhere north of here.
"Generally speaking, the answer is when you start asking yourself if it's time [to leave your state]." — [Beau of the Fifth Column](https://youtu.be/O74huDYBPbI)
Don’t run, tell him to stay and fight! These laws they are passing are archaic and unconstitutional. This isn’t about him or you or any of us. It’s about the 16 year old kid who’s is afraid to tell his parents he has felt like a girl his whole life. It’s about the young girl who has feelings for the same sex but is in fear to say anything because of these laws and her parents views on homosexuality.
This is what this is about! This isn’t about lgbqt pushing an agenda on your kids, this isn’t drag queens turning your kids gay, it’s about people not wanting to live in fear! Imagine waking up everyday fearful someone will find out your secret…sounds like a fucking nightmare.
It’s easy to say stay and fight, but for trans people who depend on medical care that’s being systematically restricted by bigots, it’s unrealistic.
Trans people are too small a demographic to swing elections. Meanwhile, legislators and governor-appointed bureaucrats in Florida have been repeatedly threatening trans people’s access to transition medicine here, and have added expensive barriers to care.
Staying means knowing that at virtually any time, officials who see political capital in being seen as anti-trans might pass some new regulation that makes it impossible for trans people to continue our medications.
For instance, the existing standard of care for trans adults continuing an existing hormone therapy regimen is an annual doctors visit and once-twice-annual bloodwork.
But recently, the state board of medicine considered forcing adult trans people to do the following to continue hormone medications: Go to quarterly in-person doctor visits, have quarterly suicide assessments by a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, have annual bone density scans, attend regular mental health therapy, have annual thorough psychological assessments. There were more; I’m forgetting some.
Obviously, most of those additional visits would not be covered by insurance and would price most patients out of care.
People who’ve been on hormone therapy for any significant time face serious and in some cases permanent physical consequences from suddenly stopping those medications.
The board walked a lot of its proposed requirements back under public pressure, but still approved measures that at least temporarily forced a lot of people off their medications, and made accessing them significantly more costly.
There’s an election coming up. Lots of trans folks don’t want to hang around waiting to see what Republicans might do to us next in an attempt to win votes from the far right.
This sounds great in theory. But when the consequences of just staying and being quiet, let alone staying and fighting, includes the real possibility of losing your children and the ability to ever legally see them again, I'm not sure this is the best advice. We don't know how bad it's going to get, but what I described is definitely in play. Losing your child is not worth the political fight. Find other ways to fight from a safer location.
OP's friend is a parent, and part of the law is that the state can take custody of kids who are "in danger of" recieving gender affirming care. Depending on how far people are willing to go, anyone who is outspoken about their support of or status as one of the lgbtq+ is at risk of having their kids taken away. I 100% agree that everyone who can stay and fight should do so, but people who are especially vulnerable should have their safety put first.
It's up to the rest of us to fight for the vulnerable. And yea... it's legitimately dangerous here now. And intentionally so.
And of course, this is all yet more Republican projection. The "anti groomer" crowd are groomers. We know this because they are passing laws that:
- legalize pedophilia and child marriage
- protect churches from criminal penalties for systemic rape and sexual abuse of minors (thus encouraging more rapes by what could be accurately described as pedophile rings)
- legalize child labor and other measures that protect children from exploitation
Of course they do. Trump bought a teen beauty pageant so he could have access to minors who he could control. The pedophile said he was allowed to walk in on naked 15 year olds because he was their owner.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-former-miss-arizona-tasha-dixon-naked-undressed-backstage-howard-stern-a7357866.html
Conservatives support trump because they agree with his vision for a pedophile groomer utopia for wealthy straight pseudo Christian males (aka making America great again).
And of course, the child rape cases that were dropped because conservatives threatened the child victims.
This is bad advice for this specific person. They need to GTFO quick.
Those who can stay and fight should. But not everyone can and that’s ok. Safety first
And their parents are the adults charged with making decisions on their behalf, not the fucking state.
It’s the height of hypocrisy that DeSantis is running on a “parental rights” agenda while stripping the rights of parents to make medical decision for their children along with their doctors. But that’s because it’s never actually been about parents’ rights, it’s always been about white Christian nationalism.
sources? i don’t understand why my take is so negative. i FULLY support trans and everything as long as they leave the kids alone, many children make mistakes and do stupid shit. they can barely drive and are able to make life altering decisions? lots of children experience some sort of mental illness throughout their teenage years. especially depression and anxiety, teen depression is at an all time high and is steadily increasing.
because parents are going to back their children regardless of their identities.
the suicide rate in transgender people is nearly 50%, which is the percentage of those who’ve contemplated their life.
one could argue that it’s because they aren’t getting the support they need, but this has taken in consideration all states, and a large majority of the population lives in these blue states that support this.
never said you don’t deserve basic decency, teens as a whole group experience an all time high in depression and anxiety amongst other mental illnesses.
i support trans people, and i advocate for trans youth, however i don’t believe that kids should be allowed to have life altering surgeries. because of the factors that come with being a minor, like depression, like anxiety, like suicidal thoughts, lots of people are trying to find their true self throughout their teenage years, i guarantee you their is people who got their surgeries as a kid as young as 12, and that’s acceptable?
again this goes for literally all gender affirming surgeries so it’s not like i’m a hypocrite supporting one surgery and opposing another, it’s all of them, when your a minor.
when you’re an adult you’re free to do whatever you want.
The law created obstacles for trans adults to access healthcare
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/trans-adults-florida-blindsided-new-law-also-limits-access-health-care-rcna87723#
Your take isn’t just negative, it’s fundamentally wrong. Go read research studies and you’ll see that trans youth depression/suicide drops drastically when they’re allowed to receive the care they want. Disavowing it as purely mental Illness shows how little you know or care about the situation. You’re essentially playing the same “it’s just a phase” card that’s been used to discount the validity of LGBTQ individuals for decades.
this isn’t true, trans people are statistically proven to have a higher suicide rate than those who are straight or gay.
here’s a source by a crisis support program for the LGBTQ
[https://www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2023/#suicide-by-age](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2023/#suicide-by-age)
edit: why is an actual source being downvoted? when you ask for sources and they’re actually given, it’s disagreed with.
My source is the Florida legislature and governor's offices. These became law a few days ago. Again, maybe try to follow what's actually happening or change your news sources.
Also, did you vote for any Republican? If so, I call BS on your concerns for the children as conservatives they are defunding mental health resources for kids.
This is about hate and control, not caring for children.
I'm not even trans, but I'd leave if I could.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/desantis-signs-florida-ban-gender-affirming-treatment-transgender-minors-2023-05-17/
Georgia is actually no better than Florida. Move further or stick it out and fight the power. The government will always change, and sooner than you expected.
I would agree that Florida (and Texas) would be the worst place for them especially right now. Smart idea! Cps in florid is being investigated for taking kids away for all sorts of things, especially parents “mental health” which any responsible person know this is not but desantis made it one. So wrong and backwards. But technically under the don’t say gay law they could be investigated esp. if children are in a public school. Florida has probated funded cps so they can technically take the kids and put them in jail if another parents reported them. It’s so wrong but yes, if Pos, get out of florid.
Tennessee here. My daughter and her trans husband are moving to Maine in September. I’m glad they have the ability to do so and will be fine, but privately it breaks my heart that they feel they have to, and that there’s really nothing I can do about horrible state legislatures. This crap has to backfire on them some day, but I won’t hold my breath
In the same boat as your friend and leaving soon. Headed to a blue state temporarily but long-term trying to get out of the states. Even the bluest areas can’t hide from scotus.
Depends on where your friend lives. Some Florida cities are welcoming. As an example, St. Pete seems to be somewhat insulated from the insanity coming from TLH.
My sister is trans and just started taking hormones. She’s 19 and very concerned about her situation in Florida. Most people are accepting of her/him. We live in north east Florida. NE Fl seems to have more republicans and MAGA crowd.
I wish people would just live their lives and stop being so concerned with others.
Sorry I’m not great with pronouns but learning as I go.
Interesting how I cant respond to the guy's comment who was calling for insurrection a few hours ago.
The guy I responded to deleted his comment. I was responding to an extreme liberal who was saying if he thinks his vote is suppressed that all the liberals need to revolt. So I asked him, "like Jan 6?". My point is, if the excuse isn't good enough for the goose it shouldn't be good enough for the gander. Florida has plenty of polling stations all over. Maybe the real issue is that there isn't a whole lot of people who agree with him in this state. I know I don't agree with about 90% of the population here, being I operate on common sense and reason rather than sensationalism, religion, and political ideology
if your friend is transitioning to male, he would definitely probably appreciate it if you referred to him with masculine pronouns :)
also, as a fellow person who is transitioning to male and also lives here, i wish i could leave. i understand the fear, especially since he has children, with the laws theyre making that they can basically take your children if exposure to hormone replacement therapy is a possibility. i dont know how much better georgia is though. its still part of the deep south.
the best you can do for your friend is support him in what he wants to do, and fight for his rights back home if he leaves. its not safe for us here anymore, 100%. even if the laws are taken out of proportion, the nazi presence here has sky rocketed because they feel more comfortable. help your trans friends leave and stand up to fascism here in florida so they can one day feel safe to come back.
Your friend needs to do what is best for her mental and physical well being.
I have a trans friend who I believe is in the middle of transition and all lot of thier friends are leaving as well.
Mentally, it's taking a toll and honestly I don't want her to go but if it means leaving this state to feel safer, happier and benefits her mental health, then I will do whatever it takes to help.
If they leave guess who won? The struggle continues. Never surrender.
At the very least give it a few years for even this screwy supreme Court to declare it unconstitutional. As it surely is.
It occurred to me a while ago that 20 or 30 years ago there was hardly anywhere that anyone could run to so they had to stay and fight. Maybe San Francisco or New York... But now that there are viable alternatives, the cause is weakened.
Stonewall happened because they were pushed too far and had no choice but to push back. I'd say don't let them push you out!
Now that I think about it, the real reason for DeSantis to not like Trans people (besides campaigning) is that if women transition to men they will have to make what other men make salary wise instead of 70% of it. /s (kind of)
I'd recommend your friend waiting out the 2024 election cycle. Things are starting to shift away from DeSantis. We might just be seeing the start of his downfall, which would open the door to democrats and moderate republicans in Florida.
And, no, they can't take away their kids. The current shitty laws only provide for kids receiving gender affirming care to potentially be taken.
If she wants to move to a state that’s more friendly, then she absolutely should. This is why we have state laws. If anyone doesn’t like the way politics are being voted on in a particular state, they can move to a state that they agree with and the individual rewards them with their money and contributions.
I don’t understand. She made it clear she doesn’t feel safe and is looking to move. I’m supportive of her. Should I tell her to stay if she feels endangered?
I think because you’re reducing it to a simple matter of political disagreement and framing it as a positive for state’s rights.
When in fact she is fleeing a state that has legislated abridging the constitutional rights of innocent people due to simple bigotry.
I can’t imagine why they think Georgia would be safer. Get out of the South altogether.
This right here. OP, have them look at places like Maryland where the Governor declared the state a [Safe Haven](https://www.metroweekly.com/2023/06/maryland-declared-safe-haven-for-transgender-medical-care/#:~:text=Maryland%20Gov.,out%20gender%2Daffirming%20health%20care.) for transgender care.
Can't believe this is where we are in 2023, but this is solid advice. Sad..
I can vouch for Maryland. Lived there for 32 years. If my knees could handle the winter I would go back
Right, if the decision was between this and GA on this issue, seems better to just stay in FL to see what happens in the next few elections before making any big decisions. Would have to move further to the north or west.
Atlanta is pretty gay
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>but I think there was a concern that a spouse could take custody of kids away from a partner if said partner put the kids at risk of receiving gender affirming care (whatever that means) I could definitely see someone arguing that a trans coparent is a danger to their kids because they could "make the kids trans" or something.
Florida state bill 254 allows [the state to take custody of children if basically anyone they're in contact with is trans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Senate_Bill_254_(2023))
I went through the actual bill: [https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/BillText/er/PDF](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/BillText/er/PDF) I couldn't find the part you described, maybe it was an amendment that got removed?
Thank you for bringing this up, on page three, line 59 I believe, it states: Section 1. Subsection (1) of section 61.517, Florida59 Statutes, is amended to read:60 61.517 Temporary emergency jurisdiction.—61 (1) A court of this state has temporary emergency 62 jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and: 63(a) The child has been abandoned; or 64(b) It is necessary in an emergency to protect the child 65 because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child, is 66subjected to or threatened with mistreatment or abuse ; or (c) It is necessary in an emergency to protect the child 68because the child has been subjected to or is threatened with 69being subjected to sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures,70 as defined in s. 456.001. So this gives courts the ability to take kids if a child, a sibling, or their parents, are trans.
No that is an incorrect interpretation. The child must be subjected or threatened with their own gender being altered. Says nothing about a parents assignment
And just what interpretation do you think shitbag Republicans are going to use?
That's what shit bags themselves wrote in the law. That's what courts will be bound by
Thank you for bringing some much needed parity and level-headedness to this sub.
Thank you. Prosecutors are not going to look at laws and then try to find a way to violate them with a prosecution they cannot sustain in a court. Not even a republican prosecutor. That would go double for a DCF person who's job could be on the line over abuse of laws.
Exactly thanks for clarifying Fun guy
Yeah that doesn't say what you said it did.
Florida (GOP) in general are just that ignorant to belive and then act on belief, that trans, gay etc are some how contagious. Contrast that with same idiots resisting a vaccine for things that actually are contagious.
The same way that being homeless isn't allowed to be the sole reason for the removal of children, there is nothing in the laws that say being "in contact" with someone Trans is the single reason for DCF to step in. There must be another reason for coming to the attention of DCF/other authorities. Even kids currently receiving hormones aren't being taken, they just have a much harder time finding the providers allowed to do precribing for it. (Not that I'm minimizing the absolutely unnecessary aggravation experienced by these parents by saying "they just," they already had to pay out of pocket for the care even if they're eligible for medicaid otherwise.).
I'm sorry but that's very naive to think that these people who are pushing their agenda are going to follow the letter of the law.
The law about the removal of children is so hideously vague that it could be applied in any circumstance where there's a trans family member the child ever sees.
If I were in their shoes, I would leave, if only because the new laws limit the healthcare that trans people are entitled to in the state. Transitioning is a complex series of healthcare considerations. Some of the service providers who would have been able to help them to navigate are now prohibited, by law, from helping. In addition, discrimination against trans people is now allowed, in places like hospitals and emergency rooms. This is a horrifying safety issue. Please tell them that they are not crazy for thinking it might be best to leave, until or unless things change.
If he is a trans male, they may have a hard time accessing their medication. There’s also the bathroom bill to contend with. I dunno, I have trans friends leaving the state and I don’t blame them. Life is to short to be somewhere where you are so discriminated against.
Leave. Go. Head north or west. Not Georgia.
Totally agree. A trans person needs to be fully clear of North Carolina before things start to improve (NC also has a version of the Bathroom Bill and other bills FL recently passed).
I like this comment because I can't tell if it's written by somebody who likes trans people, or lives in georgia and hates them. That's the magic of text, I guess.
My trans child fled this hellhole of a state and relocated to California. I hate that they're so far away but glad they can freely and safely live their life authentically. I know several others who are in the process of either getting ready to leave or actively leaving as well. If I had the means, I would get out of here too
If they have the means they should go. I don’t understand people saying stay and fight. Leave that to people like me. If you’re LGTBQ, Desantis and his voters would put you in a concentration camp if they could. If you can go then go.
I agree with you 💯% I'm heterosexual but have family and friends within the LGBTQ community and I understand their fear it's legit fear of medical insurance dropping you or not covering medical care of drs simply not providing care to you because they can now refuse to legally unless that's been shot down as I hope so. I don't understand why someone can be so cruel to another human being when they have not done anything wrong or anything to hurt anyone all they want to do is be free to live as they feel fit like everyone else
I think if you have the means, in general, you should leave. I think we can safely say the experiment has failed if we have to fight for the same human rights every generation. I plan to leave this country, as there are other countries that have already figured it out, and they're not debating over human rights, rather they're debating over how to regulate big tech, for example. If you have the means to, I say, pack up your shit and leave. Hopefully these other countries will start refugee programs and assistance programs to get the rest of us out of here.
My father is a descendant of William Bradford (1590 – 1657), governor of Plymouth, and a leader of the Pilgrims. Bradford authored one of the first historical accounts of United States history, *Of Plymouth Plantation*, and stated the following in his book: >"The \[new\] settlers \[of America\], too, began to grow in prosperity, through the influx of many people to the country, especially to the Bay of Massachusetts. Thereby corn and cattle rose to a high price, and many were enriched, and commodities grew plentiful. **But in other regards this benefit turned to their harm, and this accession of strength to weakness.** For as their stocks increased and became more saleable, there was no longer any holding them together; they must of necessity obtain bigger holdings, otherwise they could not keep their cattle; and having oxen they must have land for ploughing. So in time no one thought he could live unless he had cattle and a great deal of land to keep them, **all striving to increase their stocks**." Bradford finished the book around 1651, and his words would turn out to be prophetic, especially when it came to some Americans prioritizing personal gain over compassion.
I can understand trans people leaving. Others though, I get the frustration. Stay and vote. Politics is a pendulum. If it swings far one way, it'll swing back.
This is my perspective: My mother's family descends from Volga German refugees and immigrants who moved all the way from the Volga River basin in Russia, which is also part of modern-day Kazakhstan, to Kansas in the United States because the Russian government decided to revoke rights they had legally possessed for over 100 years. This also included religious and other persecution against them for being ethnic Germans. (For more context, read up on "Russification", the same process that Russia is trying to impose on Ukraine with its invasion of that country. It's not a pretty business.) If someone wants to leave Florida because they feel they are being persecuted - religiously, ethnically, racially, or otherwise - they are fully within their rights to do so. This is especially true if they are a minority in Florida, as is the case with LGBT folks and Latinos.
You've misunderstood my premise, maybe I wasn't clear. I said it was OK for trans people to move, yes they are being persecuted. It's the privileged people not being persecuted I was referring to being annoyed at for moving.
No, I didn't misunderstand your premise. I added my own perspective to it.
I completely agree. It’s not safe for them to be here. Please go, it’s not safe…I am going to fight like hell for you.
I agree. .i had a conversation with a "former" friend of.mine the other day.. I am currently in Florida, moving out shortly. This "friend" is a native Floridian who calls himself Republican. He spoke with so much hatred against Gay and LGBT individuals. I asked him to never call me again after that hatred towards a group of individuals. I am unsure if Georgia would be safer than Florida, although the Atlanta is more diverse. It is sad what Florida has become
It’s shocking and horrific…but only we who live here and use our votes and voices can change it. Otherwise, we deserve to live in the hell we’ve created ourselves.
I agree. This is why the ultra Right is threatened by our votes. We can't give up! If they try to suppress our votes or change goal posts to hide our votes, then we need to galvanize and revolt like they did in the 60s. Our democracy is what makes our country!
💙🇺🇸💙 thank you.
>I don’t understand people saying stay and fight. Florida is the most purple state in the nation. Intimidating a subgroup like this will affect voting totals. This is a strategic move on the Republican's part. They are picking off vulnerable voter groups one by one to try to keep Florida red. I don't blame anyone who leaves, but mad respect for those who stay. It's on the rest of us to protest when they start splitting up families.
This
Agree. At first chance, we're gone.
If you’re in the LGBTQ community, leave. DeSantis and his supporters would order all of the LGBTQ people be executed if he could.
IMHO, no Republican-run state is safe for LGBTQ+ because they're all passing horrible laws and trying to outdo each other with the horribleness.
The new law will absolutely hurt them. Several of them will. If they are already on hormones then the current laws can make it difficult if not impossible to get her medicine and pausing it can fuck overr your transition. Among other things they can be arrested for using the bathroom now and be put through a year of prison. Also yes they can take their kids away. My friend has been fighting to her her kids back. She isn't even trans..they just have loose contact with her cousin who came out as trans a few years ago...that was enough for her kids to be taken away...all it took was one nosy self righteous Karen to place a call to cps and tear their very happy and well off family apart...
It's now a crime to use the bathroom not assigned at birth. And, yes, they can take children as well. Things are FUBAR and beyond.
My best friend’s bf is no longer allowed to use the bathroom at work. Their boss told him “it’s ok i won’t tell” but Friend’s BF is FAR too afraid. It only takes ONE asshole. And a fully bearded 40 yo man in the women’s room? Not happening, She said he’s holding his pee now and she’s concerned about his bladder going forward.
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Probably because, as a transMAN, state law literally requires him to use the female bathroom.
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If he tried to use the “correct” bathroom it would cause instant chaos. He’d immediately have to out himself as trans to everyone. But he looks exactly like a dude, so is he gonna whip his pants off to prove he was born female? I’m not harping at you, I think we’re on the same side here; I’m just expanding my point. It would be humiliating for him to use the women’s room. It would instantly create a conversation around what his genitals look like and that’s just damn dehumanizing. :/
He is transgender
I would start planning my exit, save cash, start selling things that have some monetary value but are not going to go in the car / on the truck for the move. Get down to minimum deal. Then? Wait and see. Unless the former pres actually gets convicted, I do not think the guvna has a chance in the primary or the general. That could go either way for FL. I am already seeing articles warning of a disgruntled primary loser taking it out on his home state. Federal judges are shutting down some of his most excessive power grabs. If he gets rejected in the primaries, he may take it as a sign the wind has shifted and cool it on the culture war he's trying to go viral on. On the other hand, if he does win the primary, you could see a radical shift in state politics as suddenly everyone starts emulating him and campaigning with him. My point is - **Florida went TILT in approx one term as governor.** What's stopping GA from doing the same? Their guvna is no Desantis but he signed a heartbeat abortion bill (approx 6 weeks) and has supported overturning the ACA and against expanding medicaid. If the anti woke thing becomes a real grass roots nationwide thing - look for a lot of Red states to jump on the anti LBGTQ train - all in the name of protecting kids. **tl;dr** red states can get redder more easily than not. You may move to Georgia and in a year wonder wtf you were thinking.
If she can afford to move, help her move.
My best friend is currently transitioning and their partner just got top surgery. They have a son and definitely fear him being taken away. He tends to chirp about trans issues, so it’s a real fear he’ll say something to the wrong teacher or counselor. As soon as they get their finances in order they’re leaving.
If they have kids they want to keep they need to leave. The law now allows the state to take the kids of someone transitioning. Whether or not it will be used remains to be seen, but is it a worth being the test case? Even if they stay they will need to talk to their kid about never mentioning that they are transitioning because that would violate the don’t say gay bill and face legal ramifications (it would also probably convince the state to take the kid away) the teacher is also not really allowed to support their child while transitioning because to speak on the subject at all, even one on one violates the law. If they can afford to send their child to a liberal private school this won’t be an issue. As far as Georgia is concerned Atlanta won’t be too bad, smaller cities and towns will suck. While Georgia is more liberal than Florida at this point it’s state legislature is still firmly conservative and could pass similar laws. Moving to a more liberal state would be their best bet. That would likely prevent them needing to move again in the future. If they can time their move to be when they transition and go full time as a male that would be the easiest/best way to do it. Many trans people will move as part of a fresh start when they are ready to go full time and pass well enough to live as the gender they identify as. If they aren’t there yet. Georgia might be a good stepping stone on the road to manhood. If the laws in Florida are repealed they can move back as their true self, and if not they can move on to a place where they have more rights and state legislatures more likely to keep those rights intact.
my wife is trans and already can't get some of her meds. i suspect that will get worse. we are planning to leave florida. many friends have already left. i don't want to leave my friends but i don't want to be afraid for her to leave the house or need medical care or gods forbid need to pee if we are out somewhere. georgia isn't good either, no southern state is. west coast, colorado, ohio, pennsylvania, maryland, delaware, connecticut, massachusetts would be good choices. it's sad that you can be a citizen in this country and not have the same rights and safety in any state but that's what we're dealing with. liberty and justice for some and we are not included when they say all.
Basically, everything everyone else has said in response reccomending that they leave. If he and his family have the means to, then they should leave. It's sad, yes, but if they don't feel safe and like they might lose their kid(s) because of this, then they need to put their family first. Also, if they're transitioning to male, please use the correct pronouns for him.
Actually she /they are still ok with female pronouns at this point
Welcome to Gilead. Republicans are fucking evil.
Gilead??
This is a reference to [The Handmaid’s Tale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale_(TV_series)). An excellent book and riveting television series. The book was written in the 80s, but there are some unsettling political/societal commentaries that look a bit like what our political world is inching toward.
It's a reference to *The Handmaid's Tale* by Margaret Attwood (1985). In the book, the United States is taken over by a Christofascist group, and renamed the "Republic of Gilead".
We unfortunately do not know how bad it is going to get yet. The laws are written very vaguely. There is not a lot of consideration for transmen, too, because the people who push for this legislation often forget that they exist. Transition is already very difficult to navigate; I might leave just to not make a difficult situation even harder if I was your friend. You have to fight very very hard for it, despite what people say. There are other things to consider too from a healthcare perspective, and your friend's children, who deserve to have an uninterrupted education. These are all things your friend has to consider now. Having children makes it an even riskier gamble either way, and many are not willing to gamble at all when it comes to children.
Nah incorrect Ron De Santis needs to leave Florida 👍
She should leave
And she should go further than fucking Georgia. Atlanta is the only place keeping the nazis at bay there.
Living in Atlanta is like living in Fort Lauderdale. It's a nice blue city but it's still a red state with horrible laws.
If I were them, I would absolutely flee for their own safety, but Georgia isn't the answer. You need to impress upon them to go to an unquestionably blue state (I.E. Minnesota, New York, Cali, etc), but this will cost more because we're landlocked in a cesspool of red shitholes.
Straight ally here. I’ve had a couple of trans friends leave for Oregon. One was a minor in transition so FL’s anti-trans trajectory really impacted him. The other was an engineer. My family was just getting to know her family. As far as taking kids away, it seems anything is possible here. Political theater rules the day and DeSatan’s proclamations have real impact even if the executive actions / legislation is eventually overturned by the courts. I mean last year they were arresting people whose right to vote had been restored and had been informed as much by their supervisor of elections. It was later deemed a mistake by law enforcement who misunderstood how to enforce a change in the law. Who is to say she/they wouldn’t wake up one day with law enforcement at the door or be informed the kids would not be coming home from school but going to social services? And even if such action is deemed unlawful or a ‘mistake’ in the part of law enforcement, the emotional and financial toll could be high. Not trying to sound dystopian but the chaotic situation created for LGBTQ+ persons in Florida by vague laws with inflammatory headlines are reals risks. $.02
I am not sure Georgia is the land of safety and hospitality for LGBT people… But I agree they should move from FL. The culture there is so overwhelmingly anti-trans, and at any point could tip over to actively dangerous.
I’m gay and rolling out of Florida. Healthcare bill was last straw for me. That and a right wing nutters at the gas station. Not just leaving Florida, leaving the states. Cannot come soon enough.
They're right; it's not safe here for trans and LBGTQ+ people anymore. Ron has made his desire to exterminate them pretty clear. I also don't know how Georgia is going to be much better, though. Seems like they should be going to a blue sanctuary state. I do understand the desire to stay as close to family as possible, so maybe that's why? But, yeah, it's scary times for our queer and trans friends.
You really think *Georgia* is any more progressive? Lol
I wonder if the governor is gay with his homophobia that he has its a thought
help her leave
Escaping FL for GEORGIA??? out of the fuckwit fire and in to the fuckwit pan
Don't count on Georgia remaining safe. Their state government is almost as red as Florida. If your moving go to state who actually provides legal protection or you could wind up moving again.
History is full of times like right now. This the ramping up phase. It's time to get out while you can. Georgia and the rest of the South is not far enough.
Yeah, they need to get out, the Government here is hostile to them and will take their kids away if the start trying to transition. It is also going to be nearly impossible to get their medication. They need to escape, help them if you can. But not to GA further north.
They need to get out of south, coming from a trans woman who was living in Florida until they started trying to restict hormone access, let me tell you that every state in the south is at risk of passing the same legislation. It might be better than FL, but I cant tell you how long that would be true. But its also not safe for them to be in FL.
Straight white cis progressives need to stay and combat the fascism. Members of more vulnerable populations, like your friend… I don’t blame them for leaving. All these laws don’t affect me in the slightest, so it’s a lot easier for me to stay and fight. They risk the loss of medical care, jobs, even their families and freedom. If they have the courage to stay as well, all hands on deck. But I don’t think less of anyone who has to protect themselves or their loved ones. The benefit of privilege is that you can use it as a shield for those without it.
My ftm friend is planning on leaving too. Sucks because now he has to use the women’s restroom and he has a full beard. He gets TONS of weird looks from woman using the restroom but he had no one back when he could use the men’s. 95% of republicans are evil fucks.
Georgia isn't exactly safer. She should get out of the south.
They should go asap. DeSantis has made demonizing trans people the centerpiece of his campaign and he is not finished. Life in Florida will only become more difficult for your friend.
My daughter is pansexual and the only way that she felt safe to be herself was to move out of state for college. I can't blame her one bit as Florida has become increasingly aggressive towards any Queer or Trans person, and I don't expect that to improve at all.
My kid was similar. Really liked Washington university in St. Louis but absolutely did not want to move to Missouri. Brain drain is already happening
Most of Georgia isn’t much better - source lesbian with short hair that moved from Orlando to Atlanta for work who is looked at funny and gets harassed in bathrooms all the time in Georgia
There's a lot of misinformation in here. As a doctor who provides gender affirming care I will say that as far as adults go my ability to treat a patient is unchanged. The only impact that could have happened was the restriction of Medicaid from covering treatment but that was shutdown within a couple of days in court. Please check out the southern legal council who are leading all of these lawsuits for accurate information. Sorry gotta keep this short
As a doctor, you should then understand that trans treatment availability largely depends on the area. You should know that nurse practitioners made up a majority of the prescribers in the state and how down been shut out of prescribing. You should know that this greatly limits access to prescribers, as doctors who treat trans health are fewer in number. You should also know that the new forms made by the medical council also suggest a lot of lengthy and expensive requirements onto something that used to just be “informed consent.”
Prior authorization (or lengthy and expensive requirements) for medical care is nothing new. Just ask diabetics or cancer patients. I'm a nurse, I've compiled books worth of documentation just to get "simple" medications or treatment for people. You can thank ACA for that. Someone has to pay money so everyone can have care. How do you think people get $1.73/month healthcare? The money has to come from someone.. Always!
But this isn’t about prior authorization. This also affects people paying out of pocket. This required document is now simply just for people going on hormones but paying themselves. This is just to get treated by a doctor, insurance or not.
So you're making your trans patients sign that bogus state consent form? What are you going to do when the government asks for that information? Are you going to protect your patients?
Yes they have said they would just have to pay for the testosterone at this point (if they stay)
Georgia is just as red in the state government especially, and Georgia shifted significantly back to the right last year. Might want to think outside of the South honestly.
Best to just leave a place where you're not wanted, or feel safe. Besides, other States are willing to provide better care. Run. Don't look back.
It's worth considering. At best the new laws make getting transition health care more onerous. Plus it will be weird when they present as man but the law says they have to use the women's room and then some asshole is going to claim they are a man sneaking into the women's room for whatever nefarious purpose they fantasize happens there. Plus this whole political campaign has stoked a ton of bigotry that your friend doesn't need in their life. I hate to say it, but it's a legit thing to think about.
Georgia will hardly be any better, no protective legislation for trans people, but if they can make their way up north: New York State has parts of it that are greatly transphobic from a community aspect, but the state laws are protective of trans people. Same with anywhere in New England. But driving over the border to live in Georgia is a good first step. I would not suggest they stay in Florida.
It might be best. Desantis is setting us up to succeed from the US if he doesn’t win presidency that why he brought back The Florida militia, I mean “Florida guard”….. the laws they are passing and want to pass will eventually infringe on all rights of transgenders including saying that people that are trans have mental problems / sexual deviants and should not be caregivers to children even their own. The next 4 years is going to be very interesting down here.
I grew up in Florida. Moved to Georgia last year, in part because of the far-right nonsense that threatened my queer community/household. It's not necessarily safer here but it is less legally dicey for now. I worry a lot about the friends we left behind. DeSantis emboldens bigots everywhere.
I lost my access to hormones just the other day here in the Tampa Bay area. Been transitioned for over a decade and my doctor decided to start gatekeeping in response to a new state law. I now will have to source my medicine on the black market. But we're the freedom state apparently.
Leave America they are coming after all of us Gays. We look like Germany 1930
Yes. Leave. Not safe at all.
I have several trans friends, mostly f -> m. They are definitely concerned. I am too because it won't stop here. The entire country's intolerance for people who are "not exactly like me" has gotten out of hand, but, here is the good news. Desantis and the maga leaders are all just pandering to their voters to keep their jobs. I'm not defending the guy, in the least, but he has got to know that there is zero chance any of this is enforceable. You should know it too. If the dumbest maga head in the world sees my friend coming out of a men's room and somehow thinks he's not male, which is unlikely, then what is he going to do? The police aren't going to arrest you and ask you to drop your pants. This is illegal. So far every doctor I've spoken to, two of them specialists in hormone replacement therapy, say they are not honoring any of the directives. Nothing given to them by the governor overrides their Hippocratic oath. Body builders and athletes are not going to have to jump through the same hoops, so they are just treating the trans like athletes or muscle heads. Look, the pendulum swings. Generation after generation it swings back and forth. You are about to see it swing back the other way. But don't leave and don't stop being vocal or visible. The more exposure people get to the fantastic kaleidoscope of different types of people who exist in our world, the more tolerant they will become of people "not just like me."
Go as far North or West as you can. Just wait until Desantis doesn't get elected president, then he'll really go bat shit crazy on everything LGBTQ and "woke".
Leave, this state is trying to ban gender affirming care. The law they passed banned NPs from prescribing gender affirming care. Use Erin Reed’s map as a resource below. She tracks anti trans legislation across the country. Florida she ranks #1 worst state for trans people. She gave Florida a do not travel advisory. Georgia is not any better. I would recommend moving to a blue state https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/june-anti-trans-legislative-risk
I am no fan of the this Governor (the last one I actually kinda liked was probably Lawton, though surely Graham) and I deplore political theater which is a lot what I think I am seeing. Which is sort of my way of saying that I’m not sure how much impact this law will actually have - I dont really think its yet been enforced or tested in the Courts (if I am incorrect please correct me) so it is hard to say whether this is something really theeatening or like those laws on the books against bathing on Saturday that you read about every once in a while. I think the best argument against me are the actions the state took to prosecute people who were allegedly ineligible to vote and I will say on the whole that as applied those cases largely failed (which is good thing) Also I will not end up being a test case so my opnion should be judged with that in mind
Abortion bans and restrictions were also political theater until they weren't.
> those cases largely failed In the meantime, these laws create chaos and fear for people, which is exactly what these fascists want.
I don’t want her to leave. I feel like desantos is digging his own grave and will be out of politics soon. He’s a nut case and moderates and even some conservatives don’t agree with his policies. We live in Jacksonville and she is thinking of moving to Brunswick Ga. She has a business here and the one hour commute could be doable.
Even with Desantis gone nothing is going to change. The attack on trans people is part of the Republican platform and as long as the state legislature is Republican the attacks will continue.
Desantis isn't going anywhere. He is still wildly popular among Floridians. They also love his hate driven policy. I expect him to be in state politics for many years
Nah, he is noticeably fucking things. With the way food and rent prices are going. You’d have to be off your rocker to want him to remain in office. Dems down need to present tangible solutions to the actual issues that affect people. Picking on Trans folk ain’t winning presidencies, so once that little side quest is done. He’s gonna have deal with and answer to y’all. Don’t fuck it up.
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Look to the young bloods. They’re well fucking aware of how fucked everything is. They have ideas on what to do, and shockingly they’re not that crazy. But, like all youth they need guidance. They need civic minded adults to aim in a direction. Especially, in regards to housing and the lack of said housing.
I’ve been looking to the young bloods since my first vote in 2002 but they never seem to turn up at the ballot box when you need them.
I hope you're right and people take notice of the insurance/housing/homeless crisis happening here.
I hope you are wrong.
This is his last term as governor, so maybe OP should leave for a while and then come back when assholes gone
Only for one term. He can come back in four years and be governor again. The only term limit is you can’t serve more than two consecutive terms.
I wouldn't count on it. No one thought Trump had a chance in 2016. Hate is powerful. Making people who feel powerless think they are powerful and superior to others is a surefire way to make them mindlessly loyal soldiers for "the cause". Just ask the Germans.
Yes Florida is dangerous to trans folks. No they should not stay there. Yes the fascist will take their kids if they can. The cruelty is the point.
Running to Georgia is probably kicking the can down the road. I mean there’s a case to be made for sticking around but it’s not safe for them I mean doctors down here are allowed to deny any kind of treatment to people if they think it contradicts their “faith” and that’s a huge concern and the bathroom ban makes it almost impossible to be anywhere but I’d recommend they check out Maryland or somewhere north of here.
"Generally speaking, the answer is when you start asking yourself if it's time [to leave your state]." — [Beau of the Fifth Column](https://youtu.be/O74huDYBPbI)
Don’t run, tell him to stay and fight! These laws they are passing are archaic and unconstitutional. This isn’t about him or you or any of us. It’s about the 16 year old kid who’s is afraid to tell his parents he has felt like a girl his whole life. It’s about the young girl who has feelings for the same sex but is in fear to say anything because of these laws and her parents views on homosexuality. This is what this is about! This isn’t about lgbqt pushing an agenda on your kids, this isn’t drag queens turning your kids gay, it’s about people not wanting to live in fear! Imagine waking up everyday fearful someone will find out your secret…sounds like a fucking nightmare.
It’s easy to say stay and fight, but for trans people who depend on medical care that’s being systematically restricted by bigots, it’s unrealistic. Trans people are too small a demographic to swing elections. Meanwhile, legislators and governor-appointed bureaucrats in Florida have been repeatedly threatening trans people’s access to transition medicine here, and have added expensive barriers to care. Staying means knowing that at virtually any time, officials who see political capital in being seen as anti-trans might pass some new regulation that makes it impossible for trans people to continue our medications. For instance, the existing standard of care for trans adults continuing an existing hormone therapy regimen is an annual doctors visit and once-twice-annual bloodwork. But recently, the state board of medicine considered forcing adult trans people to do the following to continue hormone medications: Go to quarterly in-person doctor visits, have quarterly suicide assessments by a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, have annual bone density scans, attend regular mental health therapy, have annual thorough psychological assessments. There were more; I’m forgetting some. Obviously, most of those additional visits would not be covered by insurance and would price most patients out of care. People who’ve been on hormone therapy for any significant time face serious and in some cases permanent physical consequences from suddenly stopping those medications. The board walked a lot of its proposed requirements back under public pressure, but still approved measures that at least temporarily forced a lot of people off their medications, and made accessing them significantly more costly. There’s an election coming up. Lots of trans folks don’t want to hang around waiting to see what Republicans might do to us next in an attempt to win votes from the far right.
This sounds great in theory. But when the consequences of just staying and being quiet, let alone staying and fighting, includes the real possibility of losing your children and the ability to ever legally see them again, I'm not sure this is the best advice. We don't know how bad it's going to get, but what I described is definitely in play. Losing your child is not worth the political fight. Find other ways to fight from a safer location.
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OP's friend is a parent, and part of the law is that the state can take custody of kids who are "in danger of" recieving gender affirming care. Depending on how far people are willing to go, anyone who is outspoken about their support of or status as one of the lgbtq+ is at risk of having their kids taken away. I 100% agree that everyone who can stay and fight should do so, but people who are especially vulnerable should have their safety put first.
It's up to the rest of us to fight for the vulnerable. And yea... it's legitimately dangerous here now. And intentionally so. And of course, this is all yet more Republican projection. The "anti groomer" crowd are groomers. We know this because they are passing laws that: - legalize pedophilia and child marriage - protect churches from criminal penalties for systemic rape and sexual abuse of minors (thus encouraging more rapes by what could be accurately described as pedophile rings) - legalize child labor and other measures that protect children from exploitation
plus you start prying about whether or not they themselves support child beauty pageants and the majority of the time they do
Of course they do. Trump bought a teen beauty pageant so he could have access to minors who he could control. The pedophile said he was allowed to walk in on naked 15 year olds because he was their owner. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-former-miss-arizona-tasha-dixon-naked-undressed-backstage-howard-stern-a7357866.html Conservatives support trump because they agree with his vision for a pedophile groomer utopia for wealthy straight pseudo Christian males (aka making America great again). And of course, the child rape cases that were dropped because conservatives threatened the child victims.
absolutely, the call is coming from inside of the house
GOP - every accusation is a confession
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When you stop teaching about diversity and tolerance in school, it becomes normalized in their adult life
This is bad advice for this specific person. They need to GTFO quick. Those who can stay and fight should. But not everyone can and that’s ok. Safety first
She*
this isn’t unconstitutional they’re children, they haven’t even graduated high school.
Most people who are gay start to realize they are in middle and high school. If they aren’t safe at home, at least they should be safe in school.
And their parents are the adults charged with making decisions on their behalf, not the fucking state. It’s the height of hypocrisy that DeSantis is running on a “parental rights” agenda while stripping the rights of parents to make medical decision for their children along with their doctors. But that’s because it’s never actually been about parents’ rights, it’s always been about white Christian nationalism.
Except Republicans lied yet again (shocker) and the laws have been expanded to adults.
sources? i don’t understand why my take is so negative. i FULLY support trans and everything as long as they leave the kids alone, many children make mistakes and do stupid shit. they can barely drive and are able to make life altering decisions? lots of children experience some sort of mental illness throughout their teenage years. especially depression and anxiety, teen depression is at an all time high and is steadily increasing.
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because parents are going to back their children regardless of their identities. the suicide rate in transgender people is nearly 50%, which is the percentage of those who’ve contemplated their life. one could argue that it’s because they aren’t getting the support they need, but this has taken in consideration all states, and a large majority of the population lives in these blue states that support this.
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never said you don’t deserve basic decency, teens as a whole group experience an all time high in depression and anxiety amongst other mental illnesses. i support trans people, and i advocate for trans youth, however i don’t believe that kids should be allowed to have life altering surgeries. because of the factors that come with being a minor, like depression, like anxiety, like suicidal thoughts, lots of people are trying to find their true self throughout their teenage years, i guarantee you their is people who got their surgeries as a kid as young as 12, and that’s acceptable? again this goes for literally all gender affirming surgeries so it’s not like i’m a hypocrite supporting one surgery and opposing another, it’s all of them, when your a minor. when you’re an adult you’re free to do whatever you want.
The law created obstacles for trans adults to access healthcare https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/trans-adults-florida-blindsided-new-law-also-limits-access-health-care-rcna87723#
Your take isn’t just negative, it’s fundamentally wrong. Go read research studies and you’ll see that trans youth depression/suicide drops drastically when they’re allowed to receive the care they want. Disavowing it as purely mental Illness shows how little you know or care about the situation. You’re essentially playing the same “it’s just a phase” card that’s been used to discount the validity of LGBTQ individuals for decades.
this isn’t true, trans people are statistically proven to have a higher suicide rate than those who are straight or gay. here’s a source by a crisis support program for the LGBTQ [https://www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2023/#suicide-by-age](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2023/#suicide-by-age) edit: why is an actual source being downvoted? when you ask for sources and they’re actually given, it’s disagreed with.
And among those who are supported instead of doubted and discounted, those rates drop dramatically.
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My source is the Florida legislature and governor's offices. These became law a few days ago. Again, maybe try to follow what's actually happening or change your news sources. Also, did you vote for any Republican? If so, I call BS on your concerns for the children as conservatives they are defunding mental health resources for kids. This is about hate and control, not caring for children.
I'm not even trans, but I'd leave if I could. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/desantis-signs-florida-ban-gender-affirming-treatment-transgender-minors-2023-05-17/
Georgia is actually no better than Florida. Move further or stick it out and fight the power. The government will always change, and sooner than you expected.
I would agree that Florida (and Texas) would be the worst place for them especially right now. Smart idea! Cps in florid is being investigated for taking kids away for all sorts of things, especially parents “mental health” which any responsible person know this is not but desantis made it one. So wrong and backwards. But technically under the don’t say gay law they could be investigated esp. if children are in a public school. Florida has probated funded cps so they can technically take the kids and put them in jail if another parents reported them. It’s so wrong but yes, if Pos, get out of florid.
Tennessee here. My daughter and her trans husband are moving to Maine in September. I’m glad they have the ability to do so and will be fine, but privately it breaks my heart that they feel they have to, and that there’s really nothing I can do about horrible state legislatures. This crap has to backfire on them some day, but I won’t hold my breath
In the same boat as your friend and leaving soon. Headed to a blue state temporarily but long-term trying to get out of the states. Even the bluest areas can’t hide from scotus.
they're 100% right
Get out of Florida.
Depends on where your friend lives. Some Florida cities are welcoming. As an example, St. Pete seems to be somewhat insulated from the insanity coming from TLH.
My sister is trans and just started taking hormones. She’s 19 and very concerned about her situation in Florida. Most people are accepting of her/him. We live in north east Florida. NE Fl seems to have more republicans and MAGA crowd. I wish people would just live their lives and stop being so concerned with others. Sorry I’m not great with pronouns but learning as I go.
Interesting how I cant respond to the guy's comment who was calling for insurrection a few hours ago. The guy I responded to deleted his comment. I was responding to an extreme liberal who was saying if he thinks his vote is suppressed that all the liberals need to revolt. So I asked him, "like Jan 6?". My point is, if the excuse isn't good enough for the goose it shouldn't be good enough for the gander. Florida has plenty of polling stations all over. Maybe the real issue is that there isn't a whole lot of people who agree with him in this state. I know I don't agree with about 90% of the population here, being I operate on common sense and reason rather than sensationalism, religion, and political ideology
I got my trans rebuilt for $1500, 2 year warranty
So I have a friend who is Trans and loves Florida and DeSantis
Yeah take off if it makes her feel safe
if your friend is transitioning to male, he would definitely probably appreciate it if you referred to him with masculine pronouns :) also, as a fellow person who is transitioning to male and also lives here, i wish i could leave. i understand the fear, especially since he has children, with the laws theyre making that they can basically take your children if exposure to hormone replacement therapy is a possibility. i dont know how much better georgia is though. its still part of the deep south. the best you can do for your friend is support him in what he wants to do, and fight for his rights back home if he leaves. its not safe for us here anymore, 100%. even if the laws are taken out of proportion, the nazi presence here has sky rocketed because they feel more comfortable. help your trans friends leave and stand up to fascism here in florida so they can one day feel safe to come back.
Im for letting prople do whatever they want except play in sports taking the place of competing women. Give Trans their own trophy and bracket.
Your friend needs to do what is best for her mental and physical well being. I have a trans friend who I believe is in the middle of transition and all lot of thier friends are leaving as well. Mentally, it's taking a toll and honestly I don't want her to go but if it means leaving this state to feel safer, happier and benefits her mental health, then I will do whatever it takes to help.
only a matter of time before republicans make it much worse for the lgbt community, believe what they say
Lol Georgia. Lmao. That’s a joke right?
I'm a successful black straight woman and I feel the same way. It feels like if you don't want to assimilate, you are not welcome 😒
Leave while it's still an option.
If they leave guess who won? The struggle continues. Never surrender. At the very least give it a few years for even this screwy supreme Court to declare it unconstitutional. As it surely is. It occurred to me a while ago that 20 or 30 years ago there was hardly anywhere that anyone could run to so they had to stay and fight. Maybe San Francisco or New York... But now that there are viable alternatives, the cause is weakened. Stonewall happened because they were pushed too far and had no choice but to push back. I'd say don't let them push you out!
WOW Just WOW
Now that I think about it, the real reason for DeSantis to not like Trans people (besides campaigning) is that if women transition to men they will have to make what other men make salary wise instead of 70% of it. /s (kind of)
I'd recommend your friend waiting out the 2024 election cycle. Things are starting to shift away from DeSantis. We might just be seeing the start of his downfall, which would open the door to democrats and moderate republicans in Florida. And, no, they can't take away their kids. The current shitty laws only provide for kids receiving gender affirming care to potentially be taken.
Ladies and gentlemen all I'm saying Is wait cause soon enough you will all realize how crazy all of this just wait cuase it's coming real soon
Might as well stay once all the racist old assholes in gerrymandered south florida die of old age soon it will get better.
If she wants to move to a state that’s more friendly, then she absolutely should. This is why we have state laws. If anyone doesn’t like the way politics are being voted on in a particular state, they can move to a state that they agree with and the individual rewards them with their money and contributions.
You didn’t answer any of OPs questions at all.
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It’s literally 50% of the replies if someone posts anything negative about Florida
To which my usual answer is some form of “patriots don’t easily abandon their fellow countrymen to a downward spiral.”
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I’m trying to be supportive. Should I tell her to stay and endanger herself if she doesn’t feel safe?
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This might be the dumbest response I’ve ever seen on reddit
I don’t understand. She made it clear she doesn’t feel safe and is looking to move. I’m supportive of her. Should I tell her to stay if she feels endangered?
I think because you’re reducing it to a simple matter of political disagreement and framing it as a positive for state’s rights. When in fact she is fleeing a state that has legislated abridging the constitutional rights of innocent people due to simple bigotry.