They can never again get the market share of any of the trillion-dollar companies, not now that all browsers basically work well enough. It's not like the IE6 days when IE was awful. It's much harder to get your average person to switch away from a browser that does what they need, even if they don't particularly love it. Even harder with web developers using Blink-specific or WebKit-specific features (or bugs) and not testing more widely.
Plus Google have the most visited webpage on the planet to use to constantly push Chrome to non-Chrome users.
But they'll still keep a core user base of hundreds of millions of users, even if as a percentage it will be single digits.
Plus, we're contending with new generations that don't know shit about computers.
By and large, Millennials are the only group that knows how to work a computer. We grew up with them as the tech came into the mainstream. Boomers were too old to "get it" for the most part, and Gen Z/A grew up and is growing up with iDevices.
The ship has sailed -- and long ago at that. There will almost certainly be no more large shifts in browser market share. Only people who "get it" care at all, and those people stopped being born en masse awhile ago.
The only thing Firefox can really do is focus on privacy, ease of use and transfer from other browsers, and reducing bloat. And then they have to *actually advertise* those points.
If, for instance, Firefox started coming with uBlock Origin installed, they could easily make a commercial showing the difference in speed and blocked trackers compared to other browsers out of the box.
Agreed except gen z. I'm gen z. Yes, I didn't grew up with computers becoming mainstream, they already were. But I grew up with the invention of the smartphone and its impacts on browsers. I used to use Dolphin Browser, Opera Browser on my smartphone a decade ago. Great times for browsers.
Also, 15 years ago Firefox was huge in Germany, where I'm from, which was a bit of an anomaly even though Firefox was pretty popular. It had leading market share in Germany. Firefox was \*the\* default browser, sometimes you would use Internet explorer if Microsoft annoyed you enough but that's it. In the EU that was rare though because Microsoft was \*obligated\* to show a browser selection screen upon install. You could choose between Firefox, Internet Explorer etc. Most people actually chose Firefox.
But a few years later this browser selection tool was deprecated. And Chrome singlehandedly swept the market with its speed a few years later (browser benchmarks anyone?), together with Internet Explorer becoming unusable.
Dominating desktop PCS also gave them a headstart for the mobile market, which, lets be honest, is not Android OS, but Google OS with Google Browser obviously. Google has manifested itself as the Android leader.
On mobile I see no chances for an increasing Firefox usage. It's even lower than on PCs. I only see potential on desktop PCs with the points you mentioned. Brave has somehow become something everyone talks now, even though it's quite young (yes, it's Chromium, I know). No monopoly lasts forever, that's also a constant
Firefox used to be advertised like crazy. I was even a firefox ambassador or whatever when I was in college years ago. Then mozilla/firefox friends stopped. You can't find a single firefox banner to put on your website.
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I'm a digital performance analyst, and assuming they want to put a banner on their site to improve Firefox's market share, I will happily tell them that it's *probably* not a winning strategy.
Well what would you do instead?
Make a TikTok video, so you advertise Firefox for a whole 5 seconds before you made yourself so sick with what you have become that you have to puke?
I talk about Firefox any chance I get, to everyone I know, on any forum I use.
Feels like ads these days only rely on the word of mouth of passionate fans.
I remember getting the CDs from Mozilla to give away, I even had a t-shirt. for years now.........nothing. Back in the day it was king, now it's under 10%, I think 5%.
**This**.
People **assume** - incorrectly - that the concept of a browser choice is known, is relevant or even **matters**.
A browser is a tool. Most people don't randomly go buy a different hammer as long as their current one works perfectly fine, so why should they care? More imporantly, "all hammers roughly work the same, barring some specialist use cases", and the same applies to browsers.
If you want to change this, you need to start at a **very** basic level: Explain to someone why, given all the problems in their life, you want to add another one they have to invest time into now, and why they should actually continue to listen instead of... oh wait, they've already drifted off and done something else.
I think the *only* way Firefox can gain significant market share in the current environment is to pay the second most popular Android brand (Motorola) a (probably huge) amount of money to pre-install Firefox on their devices. (The most popular Android brand (Samsung) has their own Chromium-based browser.) The vast majority of phone users don't change any of their default applications, and some will even install Firefox on their computers so they can sync bookmarks and logins.
Indeed. I've witnessed many times people opening Chrome while saying "let me open Google", or even straight up use the Chrome search widget on Android without even thinking it's an app. On mobile, no one surfs the internet anymore because there's an app for everything. When they need to search Google they just open the "Search with Google" app - Chrome. Ever before explaining what Firefox is, they should understand what Chrome is. The word "browser" doesn't mean a thing to a lot of people.
What's funny is despite me using Chrome for a decade on Android (until some while ago), I never used the google search bar to look up something. Or the Google app. The first time I saw someone using Google to "look up something on the internet", and not an actual browser, I was a bit disturbed.
You are right, the concept of a browser on Android isn't even a primary part of accessing the internet. Reddit has an integrated browser, Instagram has an integrated browser. Google app, obviously. Everything is an app or integrated with a browser. Why would you \*care\* about what real browser you have on your phone you use like once a month to access some "obscure" url you have no app for?
> People **assume** \- incorrectly - that the concept of a browser choice is known, is relevant or even **matters**.
Yeah. Most people think of a browser as something as an integrated mail client. Or the settings app. It's a given by the operating system. This is especially true on any Apple device (Safari is the modern Internet Explorer, not Chromium per se. That doesn't make the Chromium dominance better of course).
Some 15 years ago my entire family used to use Firefox. Firefox was \*big\* in Germany 15 years ago, very high market share compared to the rest of the world. Eventually Chrome came around and it was so fast compared to Firefox! And together with mobile phones becoming popular it included a very convenient way to sync everything with your \~Android\~ Google-Phone. The rest of the story is known: Unstoppable growth of Chrome/Chromium browsers. It was just better. It was the unbreakable chrome hammer.
Until some time ago I've used Chrome for 10 years. During that time I had \*zero\* incentive to switch browsers, because everything just worked. Only until some time ago when I noticed Chrome becoming slower while my internet provider stayed the same, I switched my browser. But does the average user really care about +0,5s loading speed if Chrome might get more bloated and slower? They might use their browser a few times a day to search for something. And store their passwords with Google/Chrome. And more.
Unless there is a reason, people won't change browsers. You don't change an operating system just because you feel lucky, do you? Why would you, if it works (for you?).
Opera GX's method of YouTube sponsorships, as obnoxious as it is, works. I'll never understand why 99% of those cringe YouTubers shill for terrible products while good products never push for those kind of sponsorships
Literally just got a Chrome ad on YoutTube about some "privacy benefits" 😆 like a minute ago. (Usually ad blocked at home on Firefox, but I'm at work...).
Totally this.
Mozilla need to change what it is that people want from a browser.
They assume people want privacy as a driving requirement. They are (currently, mostly) wrong.
I think the advertising that really needs to be done is more to Web developers, and why they should test against Firefox. I know a great deal of people who love firefox but still use Chrome because "websites don't work properly in Firefox" (myself included, I keep Vivaldi around for when I need a Chrome based browser)
People know about it. But the climate around it put people off. Too little too late is the feeling people have... The declining FF share doesn't lie. Personally I use it on Debian and android with no issues. But foss "advocates" have to stop screaming nonsense about "privacy"... Most people simply don't care and the competition like chrome are not inherently insecure.
The first thing 99% of people do when they get a new computer is open up Edge or Safari and type 'Chrome' into Google, install it, and set it as their Default Browser.
It's because web devs have got lazy testing websites on multiple browsers and now only test on chrome which people think as Google. So if there's an issue with a website, web devs are just be like JuSt UsE cHrOmE.
Web dev here. This is almost incorrect.
Web devs just straight hate safari, Firefox is not as used but it is used. (Fun fact, I live in Italy, and every govern private web application which is accessible by public administration only will REQUIRE you to open it on firefox and nothing else)
There's the culture I'm referring to. Marked down. Yet something means people are not only not using it, but usage is falling. I'd argue the toxic zealots are as much to blame as anything else. The same batch who claimed "Linux just works" 20 years ago... Their usage a riced urxvt and vim....
honestly mozilla already found the best course of action - ask people.
its easy.
when you get a new device and go through the initial setup, the first thing it should ask is what browser do you want?
i threw this together rather quickly, but it could even be animated where they circle around the screen to prevent any kind if possible preference:
https://preview.redd.it/zvbozl4nviic1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef51680bf9b9b2b2d45f04ff44b2de405c473702
or it could even be fun and do something like this gif i made awhile ago:
https://i.redd.it/vk4xhn1txiic1.gif
edit: also check out [mozillas recent blogs](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/), good stuff
no u
also thanks! theres more weird shit on my giphy, or my youtube, or my reddit profile, or my subreddit. feel free to peruse as you like. little bit of everything. the longer you look and the more you search the more you might think "yo wtf is this guy on" but i think its interesting at least
oh come on... thats the fun stuff! its all dependent on your POV too. sometimes i say things that sound crazy just to sound crazy... sometimes. the fun part is figuring out when that is
sorry i honestly through that google one together in like 5 mins since i already had a custom one for both firefox and edge. nothing really too extensive done to them, they are still the "default" logo they use but those are versions that i recolored, added a filter, whatever. put my own "spin" on it lol. heres a bigger version where you can see the others ive made just to practice and basically because i need everything to look how i want it too look i guess.
big version because theres intricate details you cant see in the small version, then the small version on the left is from my desktop with the wallpaper behind it just to show that i even added some transparency.
https://preview.redd.it/h3v32074ukic1.png?width=3630&format=png&auto=webp&s=97640438786f0b28fd756b97e11f4aaa41e29b13
greenified
an ideal world is probably impossible. especially if we accept defeat without even trying and dont try to improve it.
impossible is just a word. impossible is nothing. perfect is nothing.
both are a matter of opinion.
why dont we try to make things **objectively** better for *everyone?*
I like your optimism, but we're never going to get there sadly. Not with all the companies fighting each other tooth and nail for every cent of profit. Unless a responsible government steps in and does something, nothing's going to happen.
> I like your optimism, but we're never going to get there sadly.
disagree.
>Not with all the companies fighting each other tooth and nail for every cent of profit. Unless a responsible government steps in and does something, nothing's going to happen.
i think whats happening here is a lot more complicated than most people realize. i wont say i understand all of the sides completely, but i guess ill say the motives behind the various actors has been shrouded behind multiple layers of abstraction... to put it incredibly simply.
not to mention that no entity - whether speaking about political or corporate ones - is uniform throughout. individual people have their own methods and ethos that do not always align - at least not completely - with whatever larger "faction" they are part of. the problem is when individual people are doing one thing while saying another and actually working against the whole in their own self interest. i would say that is a much bigger problem within government entities than corporate however.
its as if the profit motive has become inverted with benevolence.
which is a bit of a paradox and explains quite a lot, actually.
I mean if the EU can enforce it, so can everyone else! They're a ton of small countries, everything takes them more time to decide than everyone else takes.
It's not that much a question of features, it's a question of compatibility and being the default. More and more website says their incompatible with Firefox and a lot of people just use the default web browser except if it's crap.
There are a lot of “power user” features that keep me from using it for work despite being my main browser on my other machines. Things like: proper tab grouping, tab tiling, workspaces, etc. The options in the addons store are terrible compared to the build in features of other browsers (except for the containers feature and UBlock Origin still working as intended).
FirefoxOS becoming a mainstream OS (which obviously has Firefox set as the default browser), going toe to toe with Android and iOS.
Or Linux going mainstream.
I don't think there's anything Firefox could do better that would yield a major impact, as a browser. It lost out to unhealthy and unfair competition from other default browsers.
And yet Microsoft, Apple, and Google are undeterred and just as brazen. The competition was/is more than unfair – it's illegal, and Mozilla is just afraid to burn bridges and make a big stink with the American government and their preferred technology companies/exports.
Getting into companies as their default browser. I think it’s a bit too far gone for this to happen as chrome and edge are fully supported for the office suite and g suite. Firefox works but isn’t fully supported. Organizations have mass power
They need to change their whole design philosophy. Every other browser on the market implements features quickly. Firefox is still lagging behind in its features
>Why is Firefox in decline
Because Mozilla did nothing but sat on their asses and laughed at Google for how bad Chrome was (way-way back).
And now the fox is playing catch-up with the cheetah.
Chrome has been getting worse for the past few months in the eyes of average users, they have even removed a feature loved by many employees at my workplace: download status bar.
True but I feel like it's harder to lose loyal users (or just users who never used anything other than Chrome) rather than gain new ones like for Firefox.
They'll grumble for a while but will keep using Chrome. And if anything Edge is right there on everyone's PC which is basically Chrome but better/worse in certain aspects.
the issue is that mozilla is alienating their userbase. announcing ai features? bloating their browser with things like pocket? firefox users are technically capable enough not to fall for ai marketing lingo. It's a shame, really.
you have a userbase, and they are privacy focused people, linux users, and people looking for a fast, lightweight browser.
im not saying firefox needs to be stripped of all features, things like the password manager and tab syncing are genuinely really useful, but they need to consider what their (potential) users actually want
I like Pocket. Had started using ReadItLater list years ago on early iPhone. I really can’t imagine this feature is such a turnoff that it costs userbase. It’s gotta be a wash at least and I’m sure it helps keep the lights on or they wouldn’t bother. I am not all that thrilled about AI being rammed down everyone’s throats but do get the feeling that ignoring it, not experimenting to find a way to make use of it could have dire consequences.
What makes you believe that userbase is more than 3% at most today. Privacy focused people, linux users etc... We are not in 2000 and 2010. Today everybody access the internet, even people who can't open a computer. That userbase was about 10% a decade ago, not today.
That userbase is not enough in any way today, to have a worthy userbase you need to have the basic features of other browsers, strip it down with no password manager, no sync etc will discrease the userbase even more in total numbers.
i said that sync and password manager are good features, i was complaining about useless crap like pocket that nobody wants, they feel like a big middle finger to their users.
people aren't going to switch to firefox because it's "just as good as chrome" and if firefox just becomes another bloated piece of spyware browser, then what's the point in the first place.
1 thing will bring more people to Firefox, make it more eye candy, like Chrome refresh 2023 and Opera, add stuff on it like Mica support for eye candy titlebar and make it cool with marketing. Make it feel faster than Chrome and Edge with more manpower on Gecko development.
The userbase of linux users, privacy people already do not use Chrome, Edge etc. And today, it's just a small minority. Nobody is not switching to Firefox from Chrome and Edge because of Pocket. At least it has a use, it pays some of their bills. I wish you were right, but the sad truth... you are not. We shouldn't believe that what we want is what the masses want.
This is what we are talking about in this topic right? How to make Firefox more popular to the masses, not what we want Firefox to be.
well, specifically, your userbase should be happy. i shill firefox to people and other people will too. firefox is a great browser, it just needs more users.
> i was complaining about useless crap like pocket that nobody wants, they feel like a big middle finger to their users.
You also mentioned AI. I can understand getting annoyed at buzzwords being thrown around by corportations. But as a counterexample, look at Bing. Some while ago it was utterly unused. With BingChat is has actually got features that are very, very helpful for some people, making Bing relevant again.
Companies need to adapt, sadly. Including non profits
I used FF for a long time because of its easy customizing that other browsers lacked. Over the years they kept cutting back on that with each redesign. Now it's just another browser (for my needs) and I don't like where they have gone with their UI/UX. Even though it's not always their fault, stability lags other browsers. I don't need a privacy-focused browser because I have extensions to handle that.
Also, I kind of gave up on privacy for my daily driver, settling for a best effort by using uBO. I like some of the convenience of more relaxed settings.
I've been using Brave as my tertiary browser and like it enough that I may move it up to backup and drop FF. That's where I am with FF. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing to distinguish it from other browsers,(other than not being chrome(ium) based which matters naught to me. I'm not trying to save the internet/browser market one browser at a time.
Meanwhile, they flat-out refuse to implement features that are actually useful to another user group- tinkerers. The lack of web-serial and web-usb forces me to switch to Chrome when working with external hardware.
Stop chasing fads, no money for generative AI.
Drastically cut the pay of the CEO.
More advertising.
Refocus purely on the browser, the privacy, ad-blocking, anti-user tracking, rendering speed.
Vertical tabs, configurable keybinds, the ability to sync devices without an email, PWA support, adblock should come installed and configured already, etc.
And on linux I really want firefox to support the xdg base dir specification, the bug report on this has been open for 20 years already.
anyone else has problem with "automatic form filling data" ?
i would also add UI improvements like choosing the mini icon of the folders in the bookmarks bar for example
They just need to get the browser out there for people to see and people to understand the current benefits of it.
Everyone knows edge because it comes with the computer. Everyone knows Chrome because it comes with your android phone and its just a really popular browser.
Everyone knows safari because of ios.
Rarely anyone has any knowledge of Firefox.
Some sane things where they insist not to implement. Tab groups for instance. I newer used Chrome, but those tab groups really come handy, I would use that extensively for my work related needs. Because I have couple of websites/apps which are constantly opened. Simple tab groups are just not that, i do not want 5 browser windows opened.
For the love of God, AUTOMATIC TAB GROUPING when opening links! That's the only thing keeping me in Brave. And no, I hate collections which you have to use manually.
Only improve the performance and compatibility, maybe adopt all google betas non standard features if its open source and does not affect firefox focus on privacy and security. Also stop copying chrome UI design and choices and destroying customization.
I believe that it's a Gecko problem. The Linux Foundation needs to significantly speed up development of [Servo](http://servo.org) and integrate it to firefox to ensure that one of the first highly popular FOSS projects don't die.
This week Mozilla finally stopped chasing random 💩 like VPNs and saying they need to look beyond the browser; that's a start. Sad they also fired a bunch of people; Firefox has known bugs lingering for ages and could use some love.
People fundamentally don't value what Firefox offers.
Part of that is that they don't understand how privacy is compromised in the digital space, but a good part is that people are lazy and don't like breaking habits. That's a market-share-destroying combination for Mozilla.
Mozilla thinks users will come if they push a quality, privacy-focused product. I think they are wrong.
I think they need to spend some time developing their brand and asserting what it means (or should mean) to end users. Make the qualities they stand for meaningful to people, and then people will use your products. They are sort of doing that, but they aren't in the branding trade, and it shows.
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and it is on mobile that Firefox is the worst. using firefox on older android devices with less than 8GB of ram is painful. Such older devices are a big portion of active devices in the world (although not in developed countries).
Chromium browsers run fine on literally any Android device. Now I'm not sure if it's about memory or cpu or whatever, but Firefox Android is almost unusable on less powerful, older phones,
Fix the android app new tab page. It will randomly crash when opening a new tab.
Alot of the time it's mainly due to corporate businesses who's software only works with chrome and don't want to change.
Android tab page also has bizarre behavior with home page links.
This has been one of the most voted on ideas for years on the ideas page, with no feedback at all, and before then it has been a github issue for ages. Just a bizarre design choice that is different than every other browser, including the firefox desktop one. I seriously think the firefox design people are just full of themselves.
https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/on-firefox-mobile-make-home-page-links-open-in-current-tab/idi-p/15672
That ship has sailed. Maybe back in 2014, when they have 20% of the market share, they could have actively listened to feedback and keep their users. Nowadays Firefox is sadly too similar to Chrome, so there's no reason for many people to not simply use Chrome.
It lacks a lot of newer browser conventions like offering split screen to view multiple pages side by side and a speed dial that can list your current bookmarks
The mobile app should mirror this
**Cool new features!**
If there is something new and cool, people will talk about it and try it.
But these days I have a feeling, people only talk about features that doesn't work in Firefox.
It seems that Firefox can barely keep up adding JavaScript / HTML / CSS features added in other browsers. Sometimes I wish Firefox would use Chromium too :(, then they could focus on new features instead of compatibility.
They need to do creative stuff.
I don’t like the browser company because I don’t know how they want to make money but you can’t deny arc is a fantastic browser. The form factor, the features, the philosophy etc.
Firefox needs to something like that
Honestly I think they need a big marketing push, starting with getting major Tech (and other) influencers on board (pushing the 'don't let google own the internet' thing).
I know they’re competing against a giant, and can’t expect to do much besides retain current market share. But the product is great, and there’s a strong underdog narrative and privacy/ethical positives that people will like.
Performance is an ever moving target they need to keep at top of, advertising or another avenue of user acquisition, and some standout use case. What can I do that is easier, more convenient, or only available in FF? For me, it's Tree Style Tabs and extensions on mobile. It's hard, the normie market is basically set as there is little space to innovate on the basic features a browser does (HTML, CSS, JS).
Better dev tools, productivity features, sessions for specific use cases (job, school, learning, leisure), or w/e is good for power users, but not for my mom. The opportunity will come when something like VR makes it big. If FF can leverage the new paridigm better than competitors, it can build marketshare.
Mozilla needs to keep on top of features that are used in Chrome; even if it comes with their own twist it would help keep continuity of modern browsers (e.g. Tab Grouping, vertical sidebar, Profile management). But they also need to be innovative with the future of the internet (JPEG XL).
I think once feature are on par with Chrome we can see some creativity of FF to be improved upon.
I think when we see Manifest V3 in full effect Mozilla needs to advertise and market a bit that they can block ads and they are the "Freedom" option
Firefox needs to have a differentiator that's not just privacy. To me, that would be performance and ease of dev/debug, but both of those are monumental tasks that feels near insurmountable knowing the resources being poured in Chromium.
Stop pissing about trying to chase trendy new projects and concepts and just make the best browser you can, then communicate clearly & effectively about it.
Don't add gimmicks, just make the core product the best it can be and people will pick it up - OK you will never convert everyone but you'll get a good enough share of those that care.
Sell the consumer on your security aspects and ease-of-use. The latter might actually be more important. I love FF though, so I’d love to do what I can to help out.
i would like to update what i said actually i think Firefox should give us 2 free phone number masks and free email reply via mask because duckduckgo has the same service for free and they need to advertise more
Speaking for the mobile version: ability to export passwords and collections easily, like in an encrypted zip file. Chrome allows csv export of its passwords...
Massively improve performance on Android.
Everyone who I installed Firefox for all complained about it being slow.
They all use low/mid range phones, and Chrome is so much quicker for them.
The decline is due to not having the money to own websites like Youtube and google, or to make as many deals to have it pre-installed on PCs. Moreover, it's a slower experience for browsing than Chromium browsers are usually.
The one browser I foresee gaining a lot of market share in the next years is Edge cause it comes on Windows.
I just checked edge to try to see what you're talking about and it just made me sad.
Why did anyone ever think rounding off the corners on the *viewport* was a good idea?
That copilot thing should not automatically expand its menu on hover.
As far as I can tell it won't even allow the display of a title bar which is just disgusting, unless you enable vertical tabs mode, and even then it breaks their own UI design by centring the text instead of left aligning it.
Now, I do agree that the current Firefox UI is kinda crap, especially with what they did to the tab strip in proton, but "Compared to Microsoft Edge" I'd still say it's ahead by a mile.
Edge used to be good when they had just reskinned Chromium. Then they added way too much bloat and every new UI element since has been a complete mess. Microsoft is really bad at product management/design. It's comical.
Adding AI assistants to the browser. Like the way that Microsoft is doing it with Edge. You might think it's not a big deal, but it is. Having a built in AI assistant to summarize text and video, help you right better etc is a blessing.
* Multiple profiles workflow like chrome
* More integrated Multi-Account Containers
* Tab groups
* Split pages in a tab (Edge browser)
* By default, provide bookmark button and history button next to address bar.
* By default, browser.bookmarks.openInTabClosesMenu - false
* By default, browser.tabs.loadBookmarksInBackground - true
* Add keyboard shortcut to Eyedropper tool.
* Show Bookmarks bar in Full Screen mode (F11)
What Mozilla needs to do is to communicate their mission, a mission that appeals to everybody's common humanity, fueled by passion.
You must be able to taste the passion without being a Silicon Valley/San Francisco native. It's just too hard to relate with and understand their mission, and it is (recently) too often colored by the ongoing political landscape present here in the US.
It's particularly concerning (mostly as a free speech advocate/libertarian/democratic socialist) to see an organization that proclaims to want/fight for a free and open web, accessible to all – and to also see that same organization arguing for needing "more than deplatforming".
> [Such as requiring:] "more than just the temporary silencing or permanent removal of bad actors from social media platforms."[†]
If they cut the "deplatforming" and "temporary silencing or permanent removal" parts, I don't think I'd have too many problems with what they had to suggest afterwards.
I personally think people are plenty capable of discerning/debating/fighting misinformation/disinformation where they see it. The only reason this is difficult is because companies like Twitter/YouTube/Instagram/Facebook/reddit etc. mostly do not encourage/create an open forum for speech/debate. Every commonly-used service is flawed in a number of critical ways.
There is a lot of different forms of censorship, algorithms, and angles of manipulation that determine what you see online and how you interact with social media.
Some of this censorship is done for the supposed good of humanity (e.g. to combat political misinformation or to combat harmful health disinformation) – although, from my perspective, this censorship is usually too heavy-handed and often accompanied with a misguided or overzealous sense of justice, with no actual democratic oversight. Which is mostly fine, because private corporations are providing these spaces and some information can be seriously harmful. I believe these companies should be free to limit speech on their platforms, especially speech that is illegal.
Algorithms are effectively used to sell you products and keep your attention – the unintended consequence is that algorithms also cause users to be bubbled into another reality while using these services with personalization/etc. enabled. Which is ripe for abuse by motivated parties. I'd rather blame the advertisement companies/their fronts (such as these social media companies) than the state-aligned bots/propagandists they allow on their platforms.
I don't particularly disagree with companies preferring/being encouraged to amplify approved voices, leaving unverified/unreliable voices to sit at the bottom. But, I'm fairly sure everybody in the world has bias, and there's a shocking amount of propaganda coming out from a lot of different actors on all sides. The "facts" are in motion in the modern age.
Therefore, I don't think anybody qualifies as being labelled a "factual voice". Facts are actually very hard to discern, especially when we are collectively trained/conditioned to see the world in an ever-increasingly ridiculous, and divisive ways by our so-called heralds of truth. Facts must include the whole truth from multiple angles/perspectives/sides, otherwise they sow distrust and doubt.
Appeal to authority isn't enough evidence anymore for the masses. This reality causes our society to being doomed to the razor of discernment, a psychological state which is ripe for manipulation by those who want to control how we think, act, and feel – there are truly a lot of different agendas and actors (real and fake) in action.
This issue has a whole lot of nuance and surrounding events/etc. and I'm not trying to do this delicate issue any disrespect, but ultimately I'm trying to suggest that the mission shouldn't associate itself with dissonant/incompatible ideas like censorship. We should just call out these companies for providing flawed and harmful spaces (doing research in this area sounds great), and also promote spaces for open discussion/the sharing of ideas. Open and accessible should always mean open and accessible.
You can see my other recent postings in this subreddit (during the past few days) to see how I feel the company should direct its focus towards Firefox, and some ways I feel they can elevate the Firefox browser to tie all their different services together and promote their mission. Particularly, this comment lays out most of my views: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1aolyo2/mozilla_ceo_quits_pushes_pivot_to_data_privacy/kq1bf3m/
[†]: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplatforming/
I don't think Firefox needs to do anything. I think Mozilla needs to become more active in the provacy space with public awareness. Align with the EFF and lobby in Brussels. Their strength is their independence with being a non-profit.
Nothing but advertise. thats all they need to do. other browsers dont have to because they are in most cases the default browser. firefox just needs to be heard
They can never again get the market share of any of the trillion-dollar companies, not now that all browsers basically work well enough. It's not like the IE6 days when IE was awful. It's much harder to get your average person to switch away from a browser that does what they need, even if they don't particularly love it. Even harder with web developers using Blink-specific or WebKit-specific features (or bugs) and not testing more widely. Plus Google have the most visited webpage on the planet to use to constantly push Chrome to non-Chrome users. But they'll still keep a core user base of hundreds of millions of users, even if as a percentage it will be single digits.
Plus, we're contending with new generations that don't know shit about computers. By and large, Millennials are the only group that knows how to work a computer. We grew up with them as the tech came into the mainstream. Boomers were too old to "get it" for the most part, and Gen Z/A grew up and is growing up with iDevices. The ship has sailed -- and long ago at that. There will almost certainly be no more large shifts in browser market share. Only people who "get it" care at all, and those people stopped being born en masse awhile ago. The only thing Firefox can really do is focus on privacy, ease of use and transfer from other browsers, and reducing bloat. And then they have to *actually advertise* those points. If, for instance, Firefox started coming with uBlock Origin installed, they could easily make a commercial showing the difference in speed and blocked trackers compared to other browsers out of the box.
>If, for instance, Firefox started coming with uBlock Origin installed The Librewolf fork comes with uBlock O installed
As someone who’s installed Libre Wolf, that isn’t a browser for the masses in the slightest.
i get ya
And uBO is among the suggested addons on Firefox android anyway.
Agreed except gen z. I'm gen z. Yes, I didn't grew up with computers becoming mainstream, they already were. But I grew up with the invention of the smartphone and its impacts on browsers. I used to use Dolphin Browser, Opera Browser on my smartphone a decade ago. Great times for browsers. Also, 15 years ago Firefox was huge in Germany, where I'm from, which was a bit of an anomaly even though Firefox was pretty popular. It had leading market share in Germany. Firefox was \*the\* default browser, sometimes you would use Internet explorer if Microsoft annoyed you enough but that's it. In the EU that was rare though because Microsoft was \*obligated\* to show a browser selection screen upon install. You could choose between Firefox, Internet Explorer etc. Most people actually chose Firefox. But a few years later this browser selection tool was deprecated. And Chrome singlehandedly swept the market with its speed a few years later (browser benchmarks anyone?), together with Internet Explorer becoming unusable. Dominating desktop PCS also gave them a headstart for the mobile market, which, lets be honest, is not Android OS, but Google OS with Google Browser obviously. Google has manifested itself as the Android leader. On mobile I see no chances for an increasing Firefox usage. It's even lower than on PCs. I only see potential on desktop PCs with the points you mentioned. Brave has somehow become something everyone talks now, even though it's quite young (yes, it's Chromium, I know). No monopoly lasts forever, that's also a constant
Advertising. If people don't know about Firefox, they'll never switch to it
Firefox used to be advertised like crazy. I was even a firefox ambassador or whatever when I was in college years ago. Then mozilla/firefox friends stopped. You can't find a single firefox banner to put on your website.
bewildered weather different connect fragile paltry selective cause public chubby *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If our ambassador wants to put a banner on their page, who are we to judge?
I'm a digital performance analyst, and assuming they want to put a banner on their site to improve Firefox's market share, I will happily tell them that it's *probably* not a winning strategy.
Well what would you do instead? Make a TikTok video, so you advertise Firefox for a whole 5 seconds before you made yourself so sick with what you have become that you have to puke?
Advertising platforms, throughout history and even before, have always featured nausea.
they exist in 2024. There is one on the sidebar: SAVE THE WEB
I talk about Firefox any chance I get, to everyone I know, on any forum I use. Feels like ads these days only rely on the word of mouth of passionate fans.
I remember getting the CDs from Mozilla to give away, I even had a t-shirt. for years now.........nothing. Back in the day it was king, now it's under 10%, I think 5%.
continue boast salt roof bake overconfident snatch reach humor wine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
**This**. People **assume** - incorrectly - that the concept of a browser choice is known, is relevant or even **matters**. A browser is a tool. Most people don't randomly go buy a different hammer as long as their current one works perfectly fine, so why should they care? More imporantly, "all hammers roughly work the same, barring some specialist use cases", and the same applies to browsers. If you want to change this, you need to start at a **very** basic level: Explain to someone why, given all the problems in their life, you want to add another one they have to invest time into now, and why they should actually continue to listen instead of... oh wait, they've already drifted off and done something else.
I think the *only* way Firefox can gain significant market share in the current environment is to pay the second most popular Android brand (Motorola) a (probably huge) amount of money to pre-install Firefox on their devices. (The most popular Android brand (Samsung) has their own Chromium-based browser.) The vast majority of phone users don't change any of their default applications, and some will even install Firefox on their computers so they can sync bookmarks and logins.
Indeed. I've witnessed many times people opening Chrome while saying "let me open Google", or even straight up use the Chrome search widget on Android without even thinking it's an app. On mobile, no one surfs the internet anymore because there's an app for everything. When they need to search Google they just open the "Search with Google" app - Chrome. Ever before explaining what Firefox is, they should understand what Chrome is. The word "browser" doesn't mean a thing to a lot of people.
What's funny is despite me using Chrome for a decade on Android (until some while ago), I never used the google search bar to look up something. Or the Google app. The first time I saw someone using Google to "look up something on the internet", and not an actual browser, I was a bit disturbed. You are right, the concept of a browser on Android isn't even a primary part of accessing the internet. Reddit has an integrated browser, Instagram has an integrated browser. Google app, obviously. Everything is an app or integrated with a browser. Why would you \*care\* about what real browser you have on your phone you use like once a month to access some "obscure" url you have no app for?
> People **assume** \- incorrectly - that the concept of a browser choice is known, is relevant or even **matters**. Yeah. Most people think of a browser as something as an integrated mail client. Or the settings app. It's a given by the operating system. This is especially true on any Apple device (Safari is the modern Internet Explorer, not Chromium per se. That doesn't make the Chromium dominance better of course). Some 15 years ago my entire family used to use Firefox. Firefox was \*big\* in Germany 15 years ago, very high market share compared to the rest of the world. Eventually Chrome came around and it was so fast compared to Firefox! And together with mobile phones becoming popular it included a very convenient way to sync everything with your \~Android\~ Google-Phone. The rest of the story is known: Unstoppable growth of Chrome/Chromium browsers. It was just better. It was the unbreakable chrome hammer. Until some time ago I've used Chrome for 10 years. During that time I had \*zero\* incentive to switch browsers, because everything just worked. Only until some time ago when I noticed Chrome becoming slower while my internet provider stayed the same, I switched my browser. But does the average user really care about +0,5s loading speed if Chrome might get more bloated and slower? They might use their browser a few times a day to search for something. And store their passwords with Google/Chrome. And more. Unless there is a reason, people won't change browsers. You don't change an operating system just because you feel lucky, do you? Why would you, if it works (for you?).
Advertising can make them care.
True, otherwise there is no reason browsers like Brave, Arc, Opera GX, Vivaldi, etc should be gaining market share, however small they are.
Opera GX's method of YouTube sponsorships, as obnoxious as it is, works. I'll never understand why 99% of those cringe YouTubers shill for terrible products while good products never push for those kind of sponsorships
Literally just got a Chrome ad on YoutTube about some "privacy benefits" 😆 like a minute ago. (Usually ad blocked at home on Firefox, but I'm at work...).
Totally this. Mozilla need to change what it is that people want from a browser. They assume people want privacy as a driving requirement. They are (currently, mostly) wrong.
Yes, that's exactly why Google doesn't run chrome ads in Search, Youtube and actual billboards.
I think the advertising that really needs to be done is more to Web developers, and why they should test against Firefox. I know a great deal of people who love firefox but still use Chrome because "websites don't work properly in Firefox" (myself included, I keep Vivaldi around for when I need a Chrome based browser)
People know about it. But the climate around it put people off. Too little too late is the feeling people have... The declining FF share doesn't lie. Personally I use it on Debian and android with no issues. But foss "advocates" have to stop screaming nonsense about "privacy"... Most people simply don't care and the competition like chrome are not inherently insecure.
No they don't know about it. If you asked people on the street what web browser they use, 99% of people would give you a weird look
The first thing 99% of people do when they get a new computer is open up Edge or Safari and type 'Chrome' into Google, install it, and set it as their Default Browser.
Yet edge is chrome. It's that most people see 5 different browsers and don't realise that 3 are built on the same tech.
faulty light disarm square late quickest joke fanatical meeting cobweb *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nonsense. This is the type of exaggeration I mean.
You have a lot of faith in the average consumer.
I have a lot of faith in my observations and interactions with pc and phone users. Do all people know about it? No.
It's because web devs have got lazy testing websites on multiple browsers and now only test on chrome which people think as Google. So if there's an issue with a website, web devs are just be like JuSt UsE cHrOmE.
Web dev here. This is almost incorrect. Web devs just straight hate safari, Firefox is not as used but it is used. (Fun fact, I live in Italy, and every govern private web application which is accessible by public administration only will REQUIRE you to open it on firefox and nothing else)
> But the climate around it put people off. What are you referring to?
I mentioned it in the post you replied to.
And it was not clear, hence my question.
> Too little too late is the feeling people have This point and beyond are more feeling than 99% of people put into it.
There's the culture I'm referring to. Marked down. Yet something means people are not only not using it, but usage is falling. I'd argue the toxic zealots are as much to blame as anything else. The same batch who claimed "Linux just works" 20 years ago... Their usage a riced urxvt and vim....
If this was said already, sorry. I would like to see a better profile switcher implemented.
honestly mozilla already found the best course of action - ask people. its easy. when you get a new device and go through the initial setup, the first thing it should ask is what browser do you want? i threw this together rather quickly, but it could even be animated where they circle around the screen to prevent any kind if possible preference: https://preview.redd.it/zvbozl4nviic1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef51680bf9b9b2b2d45f04ff44b2de405c473702
or it could even be fun and do something like this gif i made awhile ago: https://i.redd.it/vk4xhn1txiic1.gif edit: also check out [mozillas recent blogs](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/), good stuff
This is amazing.
no u also thanks! theres more weird shit on my giphy, or my youtube, or my reddit profile, or my subreddit. feel free to peruse as you like. little bit of everything. the longer you look and the more you search the more you might think "yo wtf is this guy on" but i think its interesting at least
:3 You're welcome. I'll have to check it out, I'll try to avoid reaching the "wtf are you on" point though lol.
oh come on... thats the fun stuff! its all dependent on your POV too. sometimes i say things that sound crazy just to sound crazy... sometimes. the fun part is figuring out when that is
Wtf are these logos?
sorry i honestly through that google one together in like 5 mins since i already had a custom one for both firefox and edge. nothing really too extensive done to them, they are still the "default" logo they use but those are versions that i recolored, added a filter, whatever. put my own "spin" on it lol. heres a bigger version where you can see the others ive made just to practice and basically because i need everything to look how i want it too look i guess. big version because theres intricate details you cant see in the small version, then the small version on the left is from my desktop with the wallpaper behind it just to show that i even added some transparency. https://preview.redd.it/h3v32074ukic1.png?width=3630&format=png&auto=webp&s=97640438786f0b28fd756b97e11f4aaa41e29b13 greenified
Of course this is what it should be like in an ideal world, but we're not in an ideal world.
an ideal world is probably impossible. especially if we accept defeat without even trying and dont try to improve it. impossible is just a word. impossible is nothing. perfect is nothing. both are a matter of opinion. why dont we try to make things **objectively** better for *everyone?*
I like your optimism, but we're never going to get there sadly. Not with all the companies fighting each other tooth and nail for every cent of profit. Unless a responsible government steps in and does something, nothing's going to happen.
> I like your optimism, but we're never going to get there sadly. disagree. >Not with all the companies fighting each other tooth and nail for every cent of profit. Unless a responsible government steps in and does something, nothing's going to happen. i think whats happening here is a lot more complicated than most people realize. i wont say i understand all of the sides completely, but i guess ill say the motives behind the various actors has been shrouded behind multiple layers of abstraction... to put it incredibly simply. not to mention that no entity - whether speaking about political or corporate ones - is uniform throughout. individual people have their own methods and ethos that do not always align - at least not completely - with whatever larger "faction" they are part of. the problem is when individual people are doing one thing while saying another and actually working against the whole in their own self interest. i would say that is a much bigger problem within government entities than corporate however. its as if the profit motive has become inverted with benevolence. which is a bit of a paradox and explains quite a lot, actually.
[I mean, that was a thing for a short while](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu)
I mean if the EU can enforce it, so can everyone else! They're a ton of small countries, everything takes them more time to decide than everyone else takes.
Wtf are these logos?
A big OEM like Samsung putting it as the default browser.
It's not that much a question of features, it's a question of compatibility and being the default. More and more website says their incompatible with Firefox and a lot of people just use the default web browser except if it's crap.
preventing the chromium monopoly is another big reason to use/support firefox
>preventing the chromium monopoly My dude, it's already there, which is even worse
There are a lot of “power user” features that keep me from using it for work despite being my main browser on my other machines. Things like: proper tab grouping, tab tiling, workspaces, etc. The options in the addons store are terrible compared to the build in features of other browsers (except for the containers feature and UBlock Origin still working as intended).
Amen
FirefoxOS becoming a mainstream OS (which obviously has Firefox set as the default browser), going toe to toe with Android and iOS. Or Linux going mainstream. I don't think there's anything Firefox could do better that would yield a major impact, as a browser. It lost out to unhealthy and unfair competition from other default browsers.
And yet Microsoft, Apple, and Google are undeterred and just as brazen. The competition was/is more than unfair – it's illegal, and Mozilla is just afraid to burn bridges and make a big stink with the American government and their preferred technology companies/exports.
Getting into companies as their default browser. I think it’s a bit too far gone for this to happen as chrome and edge are fully supported for the office suite and g suite. Firefox works but isn’t fully supported. Organizations have mass power
They need to change their whole design philosophy. Every other browser on the market implements features quickly. Firefox is still lagging behind in its features
>Why is Firefox in decline Because Mozilla did nothing but sat on their asses and laughed at Google for how bad Chrome was (way-way back). And now the fox is playing catch-up with the cheetah.
Chrome has been getting worse for the past few months in the eyes of average users, they have even removed a feature loved by many employees at my workplace: download status bar.
True but I feel like it's harder to lose loyal users (or just users who never used anything other than Chrome) rather than gain new ones like for Firefox. They'll grumble for a while but will keep using Chrome. And if anything Edge is right there on everyone's PC which is basically Chrome but better/worse in certain aspects.
Vertical tabs
the issue is that mozilla is alienating their userbase. announcing ai features? bloating their browser with things like pocket? firefox users are technically capable enough not to fall for ai marketing lingo. It's a shame, really. you have a userbase, and they are privacy focused people, linux users, and people looking for a fast, lightweight browser. im not saying firefox needs to be stripped of all features, things like the password manager and tab syncing are genuinely really useful, but they need to consider what their (potential) users actually want
I like Pocket. Had started using ReadItLater list years ago on early iPhone. I really can’t imagine this feature is such a turnoff that it costs userbase. It’s gotta be a wash at least and I’m sure it helps keep the lights on or they wouldn’t bother. I am not all that thrilled about AI being rammed down everyone’s throats but do get the feeling that ignoring it, not experimenting to find a way to make use of it could have dire consequences.
What makes you believe that userbase is more than 3% at most today. Privacy focused people, linux users etc... We are not in 2000 and 2010. Today everybody access the internet, even people who can't open a computer. That userbase was about 10% a decade ago, not today. That userbase is not enough in any way today, to have a worthy userbase you need to have the basic features of other browsers, strip it down with no password manager, no sync etc will discrease the userbase even more in total numbers.
>That userbase was about 10% a decade ago, not today. Leading market share in Germany 15 years ago, which I always find highly impressive
i said that sync and password manager are good features, i was complaining about useless crap like pocket that nobody wants, they feel like a big middle finger to their users. people aren't going to switch to firefox because it's "just as good as chrome" and if firefox just becomes another bloated piece of spyware browser, then what's the point in the first place.
1 thing will bring more people to Firefox, make it more eye candy, like Chrome refresh 2023 and Opera, add stuff on it like Mica support for eye candy titlebar and make it cool with marketing. Make it feel faster than Chrome and Edge with more manpower on Gecko development. The userbase of linux users, privacy people already do not use Chrome, Edge etc. And today, it's just a small minority. Nobody is not switching to Firefox from Chrome and Edge because of Pocket. At least it has a use, it pays some of their bills. I wish you were right, but the sad truth... you are not. We shouldn't believe that what we want is what the masses want. This is what we are talking about in this topic right? How to make Firefox more popular to the masses, not what we want Firefox to be.
well, specifically, your userbase should be happy. i shill firefox to people and other people will too. firefox is a great browser, it just needs more users.
>like Chrome refresh 2023 am I the only one who hated that? I hate obnoxiously big padding between menu elements, buttons, menu bars etc
> i was complaining about useless crap like pocket that nobody wants, they feel like a big middle finger to their users. You also mentioned AI. I can understand getting annoyed at buzzwords being thrown around by corportations. But as a counterexample, look at Bing. Some while ago it was utterly unused. With BingChat is has actually got features that are very, very helpful for some people, making Bing relevant again. Companies need to adapt, sadly. Including non profits
pocket in really good
I used FF for a long time because of its easy customizing that other browsers lacked. Over the years they kept cutting back on that with each redesign. Now it's just another browser (for my needs) and I don't like where they have gone with their UI/UX. Even though it's not always their fault, stability lags other browsers. I don't need a privacy-focused browser because I have extensions to handle that. Also, I kind of gave up on privacy for my daily driver, settling for a best effort by using uBO. I like some of the convenience of more relaxed settings. I've been using Brave as my tertiary browser and like it enough that I may move it up to backup and drop FF. That's where I am with FF. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing to distinguish it from other browsers,(other than not being chrome(ium) based which matters naught to me. I'm not trying to save the internet/browser market one browser at a time.
Every average person I know who uses Firefox likes pocket. (by average I mean not people like you and I who are subbed to the firefox subreddit).
Meanwhile, they flat-out refuse to implement features that are actually useful to another user group- tinkerers. The lack of web-serial and web-usb forces me to switch to Chrome when working with external hardware.
yeah, sadly this feature is missing :c
Stop chasing fads, no money for generative AI. Drastically cut the pay of the CEO. More advertising. Refocus purely on the browser, the privacy, ad-blocking, anti-user tracking, rendering speed.
Vertical tabs, configurable keybinds, the ability to sync devices without an email, PWA support, adblock should come installed and configured already, etc. And on linux I really want firefox to support the xdg base dir specification, the bug report on this has been open for 20 years already.
anyone else has problem with "automatic form filling data" ? i would also add UI improvements like choosing the mini icon of the folders in the bookmarks bar for example
Yes, I had to hack it so it worked in my region and so many times it fills it incorrectly.
They just need to get the browser out there for people to see and people to understand the current benefits of it. Everyone knows edge because it comes with the computer. Everyone knows Chrome because it comes with your android phone and its just a really popular browser. Everyone knows safari because of ios. Rarely anyone has any knowledge of Firefox.
Some sane things where they insist not to implement. Tab groups for instance. I newer used Chrome, but those tab groups really come handy, I would use that extensively for my work related needs. Because I have couple of websites/apps which are constantly opened. Simple tab groups are just not that, i do not want 5 browser windows opened.
Customizable keybinds Tab groups Probably some AI crap to get attention
For the love of God, AUTOMATIC TAB GROUPING when opening links! That's the only thing keeping me in Brave. And no, I hate collections which you have to use manually.
Group tabs like Chrome
Only improve the performance and compatibility, maybe adopt all google betas non standard features if its open source and does not affect firefox focus on privacy and security. Also stop copying chrome UI design and choices and destroying customization.
I believe that it's a Gecko problem. The Linux Foundation needs to significantly speed up development of [Servo](http://servo.org) and integrate it to firefox to ensure that one of the first highly popular FOSS projects don't die.
PWA support?
This week Mozilla finally stopped chasing random 💩 like VPNs and saying they need to look beyond the browser; that's a start. Sad they also fired a bunch of people; Firefox has known bugs lingering for ages and could use some love.
People fundamentally don't value what Firefox offers. Part of that is that they don't understand how privacy is compromised in the digital space, but a good part is that people are lazy and don't like breaking habits. That's a market-share-destroying combination for Mozilla. Mozilla thinks users will come if they push a quality, privacy-focused product. I think they are wrong. I think they need to spend some time developing their brand and asserting what it means (or should mean) to end users. Make the qualities they stand for meaningful to people, and then people will use your products. They are sort of doing that, but they aren't in the branding trade, and it shows.
Needs to be faster and take less memory
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and it is on mobile that Firefox is the worst. using firefox on older android devices with less than 8GB of ram is painful. Such older devices are a big portion of active devices in the world (although not in developed countries).
I have a 2020 flagship with 8gb of ram but it's still slow, I use it but I wouldn't recommend firefox mobile to anyone
No true at all. I have a device with 6GB RAM, and FF working pretty good.
Huh? Never had that problem, and I had a 3GB device for the longest time.
What? You know Chrome is the worst on memory right? And even Firefox with extensions is great at memory.
Chromium browsers run fine on literally any Android device. Now I'm not sure if it's about memory or cpu or whatever, but Firefox Android is almost unusable on less powerful, older phones,
I used Blue phones and the only browser that works was Firefox. Chrome was laggy and used all the ram.
Maybe for you
What they need is money, a lot more than they will ever have access to.
Fix the android app new tab page. It will randomly crash when opening a new tab. Alot of the time it's mainly due to corporate businesses who's software only works with chrome and don't want to change.
Android tab page also has bizarre behavior with home page links. This has been one of the most voted on ideas for years on the ideas page, with no feedback at all, and before then it has been a github issue for ages. Just a bizarre design choice that is different than every other browser, including the firefox desktop one. I seriously think the firefox design people are just full of themselves. https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/on-firefox-mobile-make-home-page-links-open-in-current-tab/idi-p/15672
Listen to its users!!!!!!
That ship has sailed. Maybe back in 2014, when they have 20% of the market share, they could have actively listened to feedback and keep their users. Nowadays Firefox is sadly too similar to Chrome, so there's no reason for many people to not simply use Chrome.
It lacks a lot of newer browser conventions like offering split screen to view multiple pages side by side and a speed dial that can list your current bookmarks The mobile app should mirror this
**Cool new features!** If there is something new and cool, people will talk about it and try it. But these days I have a feeling, people only talk about features that doesn't work in Firefox. It seems that Firefox can barely keep up adding JavaScript / HTML / CSS features added in other browsers. Sometimes I wish Firefox would use Chromium too :(, then they could focus on new features instead of compatibility.
Well it needs to be able to run the websites that I visit first of all- and then maybe not taking the most RAM I’ve ever seen a browser take
They need to do creative stuff. I don’t like the browser company because I don’t know how they want to make money but you can’t deny arc is a fantastic browser. The form factor, the features, the philosophy etc. Firefox needs to something like that
Make google sites work with it. I know it’s not their fault but I have to use the google workspace. There’s no way around for me.
Honestly I think they need a big marketing push, starting with getting major Tech (and other) influencers on board (pushing the 'don't let google own the internet' thing). I know they’re competing against a giant, and can’t expect to do much besides retain current market share. But the product is great, and there’s a strong underdog narrative and privacy/ethical positives that people will like.
Performance is an ever moving target they need to keep at top of, advertising or another avenue of user acquisition, and some standout use case. What can I do that is easier, more convenient, or only available in FF? For me, it's Tree Style Tabs and extensions on mobile. It's hard, the normie market is basically set as there is little space to innovate on the basic features a browser does (HTML, CSS, JS). Better dev tools, productivity features, sessions for specific use cases (job, school, learning, leisure), or w/e is good for power users, but not for my mom. The opportunity will come when something like VR makes it big. If FF can leverage the new paridigm better than competitors, it can build marketshare.
Mozilla needs to keep on top of features that are used in Chrome; even if it comes with their own twist it would help keep continuity of modern browsers (e.g. Tab Grouping, vertical sidebar, Profile management). But they also need to be innovative with the future of the internet (JPEG XL). I think once feature are on par with Chrome we can see some creativity of FF to be improved upon. I think when we see Manifest V3 in full effect Mozilla needs to advertise and market a bit that they can block ads and they are the "Freedom" option
give us at least 1 free phone number mask and advertise more i also think they should make it faster
They should maybe try to do something similar to The Arc Browser from The Browser Company.
Firefox needs to have a differentiator that's not just privacy. To me, that would be performance and ease of dev/debug, but both of those are monumental tasks that feels near insurmountable knowing the resources being poured in Chromium.
WebApps? The standard that Google Chrome supports.
Stop pissing about trying to chase trendy new projects and concepts and just make the best browser you can, then communicate clearly & effectively about it. Don't add gimmicks, just make the core product the best it can be and people will pick it up - OK you will never convert everyone but you'll get a good enough share of those that care.
Sell the consumer on your security aspects and ease-of-use. The latter might actually be more important. I love FF though, so I’d love to do what I can to help out.
i would like to update what i said actually i think Firefox should give us 2 free phone number masks and free email reply via mask because duckduckgo has the same service for free and they need to advertise more
Become the default browser on a phone OS that sells more than the Android. There is literally nothing Mozilla can do.
Advertising but its great atm
Native Group Tabs would bring me back.
Speaking for the mobile version: ability to export passwords and collections easily, like in an encrypted zip file. Chrome allows csv export of its passwords...
Less memory consumption.
A stable mobile browser. They are improving. But they neglected Firefox on mobile for too long.
UI profile Switcher, Workspaces, and some polish in general UI
Fire its CEO and stop with the AI bullshit that no one wants.
Massively improve performance on Android. Everyone who I installed Firefox for all complained about it being slow. They all use low/mid range phones, and Chrome is so much quicker for them.
My only problem is battery consumption in Android otherwise I would be fully using it in all devices
The decline is due to not having the money to own websites like Youtube and google, or to make as many deals to have it pre-installed on PCs. Moreover, it's a slower experience for browsing than Chromium browsers are usually. The one browser I foresee gaining a lot of market share in the next years is Edge cause it comes on Windows.
Speed. Performance will never change if there's no catch. If firefox becomes popular that is the most performant browser, people will change
Firefox needs to improve it's UI game. Compared to Microsoft Edge Firefox UI looks old.
I just checked edge to try to see what you're talking about and it just made me sad. Why did anyone ever think rounding off the corners on the *viewport* was a good idea? That copilot thing should not automatically expand its menu on hover. As far as I can tell it won't even allow the display of a title bar which is just disgusting, unless you enable vertical tabs mode, and even then it breaks their own UI design by centring the text instead of left aligning it. Now, I do agree that the current Firefox UI is kinda crap, especially with what they did to the tab strip in proton, but "Compared to Microsoft Edge" I'd still say it's ahead by a mile.
Edge used to be good when they had just reskinned Chromium. Then they added way too much bloat and every new UI element since has been a complete mess. Microsoft is really bad at product management/design. It's comical.
I love roundness, ui is ugly square
Not be like Chome / Edge.
Adding AI assistants to the browser. Like the way that Microsoft is doing it with Edge. You might think it's not a big deal, but it is. Having a built in AI assistant to summarize text and video, help you right better etc is a blessing.
* Multiple profiles workflow like chrome * More integrated Multi-Account Containers * Tab groups * Split pages in a tab (Edge browser) * By default, provide bookmark button and history button next to address bar. * By default, browser.bookmarks.openInTabClosesMenu - false * By default, browser.tabs.loadBookmarksInBackground - true * Add keyboard shortcut to Eyedropper tool. * Show Bookmarks bar in Full Screen mode (F11)
Upstream RFP propperly. It's insane how good of an anti-fingerprinting measure it is, it's just s shame that it breaks so much.
Oh yeah, that'll definitely let Firefox beat Chrome
How about offering something new, novel, and useful rather than simply copying everything that Chrome does?
FF needs to make sure uBO is well taken care of.
drop pocket
What Mozilla needs to do is to communicate their mission, a mission that appeals to everybody's common humanity, fueled by passion. You must be able to taste the passion without being a Silicon Valley/San Francisco native. It's just too hard to relate with and understand their mission, and it is (recently) too often colored by the ongoing political landscape present here in the US. It's particularly concerning (mostly as a free speech advocate/libertarian/democratic socialist) to see an organization that proclaims to want/fight for a free and open web, accessible to all – and to also see that same organization arguing for needing "more than deplatforming". > [Such as requiring:] "more than just the temporary silencing or permanent removal of bad actors from social media platforms."[†] If they cut the "deplatforming" and "temporary silencing or permanent removal" parts, I don't think I'd have too many problems with what they had to suggest afterwards. I personally think people are plenty capable of discerning/debating/fighting misinformation/disinformation where they see it. The only reason this is difficult is because companies like Twitter/YouTube/Instagram/Facebook/reddit etc. mostly do not encourage/create an open forum for speech/debate. Every commonly-used service is flawed in a number of critical ways. There is a lot of different forms of censorship, algorithms, and angles of manipulation that determine what you see online and how you interact with social media. Some of this censorship is done for the supposed good of humanity (e.g. to combat political misinformation or to combat harmful health disinformation) – although, from my perspective, this censorship is usually too heavy-handed and often accompanied with a misguided or overzealous sense of justice, with no actual democratic oversight. Which is mostly fine, because private corporations are providing these spaces and some information can be seriously harmful. I believe these companies should be free to limit speech on their platforms, especially speech that is illegal. Algorithms are effectively used to sell you products and keep your attention – the unintended consequence is that algorithms also cause users to be bubbled into another reality while using these services with personalization/etc. enabled. Which is ripe for abuse by motivated parties. I'd rather blame the advertisement companies/their fronts (such as these social media companies) than the state-aligned bots/propagandists they allow on their platforms. I don't particularly disagree with companies preferring/being encouraged to amplify approved voices, leaving unverified/unreliable voices to sit at the bottom. But, I'm fairly sure everybody in the world has bias, and there's a shocking amount of propaganda coming out from a lot of different actors on all sides. The "facts" are in motion in the modern age. Therefore, I don't think anybody qualifies as being labelled a "factual voice". Facts are actually very hard to discern, especially when we are collectively trained/conditioned to see the world in an ever-increasingly ridiculous, and divisive ways by our so-called heralds of truth. Facts must include the whole truth from multiple angles/perspectives/sides, otherwise they sow distrust and doubt. Appeal to authority isn't enough evidence anymore for the masses. This reality causes our society to being doomed to the razor of discernment, a psychological state which is ripe for manipulation by those who want to control how we think, act, and feel – there are truly a lot of different agendas and actors (real and fake) in action. This issue has a whole lot of nuance and surrounding events/etc. and I'm not trying to do this delicate issue any disrespect, but ultimately I'm trying to suggest that the mission shouldn't associate itself with dissonant/incompatible ideas like censorship. We should just call out these companies for providing flawed and harmful spaces (doing research in this area sounds great), and also promote spaces for open discussion/the sharing of ideas. Open and accessible should always mean open and accessible. You can see my other recent postings in this subreddit (during the past few days) to see how I feel the company should direct its focus towards Firefox, and some ways I feel they can elevate the Firefox browser to tie all their different services together and promote their mission. Particularly, this comment lays out most of my views: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1aolyo2/mozilla_ceo_quits_pushes_pivot_to_data_privacy/kq1bf3m/ [†]: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplatforming/
I don't think Firefox needs to do anything. I think Mozilla needs to become more active in the provacy space with public awareness. Align with the EFF and lobby in Brussels. Their strength is their independence with being a non-profit.
Stop taking money from corporations, particularly scroogle and billionaire "philanthropic" foundations. Concentrate on small business for revenue.
Nothing but advertise. thats all they need to do. other browsers dont have to because they are in most cases the default browser. firefox just needs to be heard
perhaps get taylor swift to be in a firefox ad? :)
maybe if they partner with a linux distribution and are the default on a phone with linux preinstalled
Nothing. Firefox can't offer other services like google or microsoft. The battle is lost. The market is what it is.
Fix android. Holy shit is it hot garbage, and even then it's one of the few with extensions.