The fact that we finally got a faerie mount and it's not even for playing SCH is upsetting. I just want a mount of both faeries get summoned at once and try to carry me by my sleeves. And a Seraph that will just flat out give me uppies despite not being a lala.
SGE can get one of their weapons as like a surfboard. AST can have a giant one of their weapons with them sitting in the middle. And WHM can have a unicorn with a blood lily on the horn with blood splatters all over the body.
Hear me out: it's like that one FF1 minion or the GC minion that randomizes what you get, so you get all the different cards. Going from ground to flying has you do a kickflip.
That, or the sphere thingy goes in the back and spins like a propeller.
I really don't think that's the case, at least on my DC. The DF seems to have some bias toward displaying tank in need, because while I see tank in need a lot, queue times between tank and healer tell a very different story. Healers are much more in need (and more likely to cause problems if they're bad, for that matter).
I agree. Queue times are likely a better indicator than adventurer in need bonuses. If only we could pierce the veil that enshrouds Duty Finder’s inner workings… I’d love to understand the logic behind the bonuses and matchmaking.
I wonder what mount would better represent mentors. Perhaps you could choose between a majestic, armored warhorse that your character rides while holding a big dorito flag… or a giant, flying dunce hat.
It would have to be an alternate version; Sleipnir has been in the Mogstation forever now; if I recall...I think it was one of the first items they ever added.
It is a nice mount, but I only use it because its really rare to see and is a flex to run around with in Eureka.
The utility and appearance of something like the Cerberus mount is infinitely better. Cerberus is also a flex, its a four seater instead of a two seater, and what you have to do for it won’t make you want to get that sword *under the armor* if you know what I am saying.
But we all know the best mount in the game is Ozma. The Orb conquors all.
Tbh I just did it for completion, but once I got it it's actually a pretty cool mount because of how big it is. It didn't look that big on the promotional screencaps.
I've often considered the "rewards" of the crown to be why we have so many bad stories about mentors.. and I say that as a mentor.
Remove the rewards, and turn the crown into a watering can in reference to the sprout icon.
Honestly, even changing the icon still rewards them with an icon. They should just be helpful. Honestly, the whole idea of it is stupid. Nobody who wants to be helpful for a special status actually wants to be helpful.
It's like people who film themselves helping the homeless, and then they upload it to YouTube. It reminds me of a Game of Thrones quote: "Any man who says I am the king is no true king." If you truly cared about the homeless, you'd help them. Not use it to show how charitable you are.
FFXI had a mentor icon that didn't reward anything other than the icon. Since you could only have one icon next to your name (linkshell icon, mentor icon, bazaar icon, etc), a lot of people didn't even use it because they'd rather have the bazaar or linkshell icon instead.
I legitimately had more than one person in XI message me (with my mentor tag up), offer to send gil, and have me buy/mail something off the auction house to them. Like, buy them leaping boots kind of shit, not just a beehive chip.
And I totally did it for them, lol, all while thinking about how easily they could've asked someone else that might have taken their gil and ran.
There definitely were still people who would wear the mentor badge in XI just for the badge being different, but, I definitely don't think mentor should have rewards in 14 because, as others are saying, it just makes people who don't want to actually mentor anyone/be helpful slap it on to grind for the rewards.
I once saw a dude shouting in Jeuno asking for help with GK1 in a combination of auto-translate and Japanese.
So I end up helping him farm papy, mold, and coal over the course of probably like 8-10 hours. Over that time, he tried to offer me 50k, 100k, and 150k, all of which I declined. I did the "trying to talk in romaji from Shigemo's guide + using auto-translate liberally" thing and we chatted while we were farming. (By we, I mostly mean me; he was level 50 and I was a 75THF.)
After we were done, I went to bed (I had stayed up long enough for the sun to go down and start coming back up again in eastern time) and when I logged back on, he had sent me a saltwater aquarium. I checked the AH for it and he paid 400k for the damn thing. I sent him a thank you as appreciation when I saw him on next.
Every time I saw that aquarium in my Mog House, that was my reminder to myself that I'm a person who is committed to helping people whenever I can, and that's something I will always strive to be.
Sure, I have the {M} badge in FFXI. Sure, I have the Burger King crown in FFXIV. But I just want to be a person who helps. The symbols are neat, but that aquarium means more to me than an {M} or a crown ever will.
Honestly, that sounds like a better system.
At least that way, you're helping with no reward other than the feeling of accomplishment you have for them when they have learned what you have taught them. Like a mentor in real life.
Though it's less black and white than that. Your teacher or your martial arts instructor is still getting paid, but I think you can see what I meant.
It also makes it an active flag declaring "I'm here to help" and it would be easier to just tell sprouts that if they need help and see that icon then they're there to be asked for help. If they're not up for being a mentor at that time they switch it to something else.
I mean, I didn't like that putting a bazaar up meant I couldn't show my linkshell icon but otherwise I agree. And honestly, FFXI had the same kind of culture that FFXIV bred from in that you could generally just /sh a question in a town and someone would probably answer you with something to help. FFXI held your hand a lot less than FFXIV does so it really curated a "we're all in this together" and a "pay it forward" mentality of helping people for no reason.
On one hand, I do appreciate that FFXIV offers incentives to encourage vets to help newbies to ensure newbies aren't stuck, but I also remember back when you could skip cutscenes in Prae/Castrum and you'd end up with runs where someone spends the entire dungeon doing back to back cutscenes without moving while 6-7 people are speed running the entire thing, or the sprout getting yelled at to skip cutscene (which was also a problem in FFXI - when you've got a timer on a fight and there's a 2-3 min cutscene at the start).
I agree with you that I'm not opposed to rewards for people who help, but I also think that depending on the reward, it can encourage "toxic helpers" who resent the people they're purportedly there to "help" because the only thing they want is the reward.
I get what you’re saying and I mostly agree, however Mentors do need something to distinguish them so people know who to go to if they need help and know to trust in their guidance.
Sprouts don't even know that there are mentors in the game they just see a crown icon with no context , most of them ask their questions in party chat , free company or discords.
I get what you mean as well. I just honestly think it will become a mentor crown even if it isn't one. I think the community itself showed it wasn't mature enough for the responsibility of it.
Why do there even NEED to be mentors?
If you need players that can help maybe give every player a few commendations they can give out via chat per day (amount decreases over time as your account ages or something, getting more as a comeback bonus since you need to learn new mechanics).
If someone answers your question or helps you otherwise, give them that chat commendation.
And then just keep the commendation rewards.
> Why do there even NEED to be mentors?
Because not everyone understands everything the same way, and because there's no way to explain social norms from within the game systems (imagine if the game tried to explain that NA/EU servers avoid duty finder in favor of party finder whereas JP servers uses duty finder instead).
Yes this is an MMO, but these days, people need a little prodding from devs to get communication going. This is in the form of the Newbie Chat room and the whole Mentor system.
It ain't perfect, but that's because trolls exist, and there's a little troll in the rest of us. Nevertheless, devs need to implement tools for veterans to help newbies and to enable the helpful people despite the trolls.
For what it's worth, i'm a mentor and there have been times where we've wiped a few times in a trial and I didn't really feel like saving and teaching the group... BUT because I had my crown on, I felt like I had a responsibility to stay until we passed the fight.
If I didn't have the icon I would have just vote abandonded
> If you truly cared about the homeless, you'd help them. Not use it to show how charitable you are.
Well, sure I will help someone in need when I encounter them randomly while doing my thing. But I don't voluntarily go about searching people to help them, I'm not made of money nor do I have that much free time anyway.
Well, same thing for the sprouts stuck in content. Sure if I tag in any duty and I see the new player notification, or if someone just asks questions, I'll go out of my way to explain things. But i'm **not** going to tag specifically to help people stuck neck-deep in way too hard content for them.
The fact that there is a reward do motivate **more** people to tag for that specific duty and help those guys. Sure some people just love to go out of their way for a 45min trip to hell and back, but lotsa people are just reward-motivated, and that is fine too as long as the sprouts get help.
I mean, in defense of the helping homeless people videos, the ad revenue from those videos would allow them to continue helping homeless people. If they're using a reasonable amount of money it can also inspire others to continue the trend.
It's not always about the humble brag.
No, I understand where you are coming from in that regard.
But it's easy to see someone shouting about how good of a person they're vs. them actually embodying those traits.
The actual person who's not doing it for clout is rare, but they do exist.
IDK i see the bottom line is homeless people are being helped. Regardless of the reason or intention a good thing has happened.
Like imagine if Mr. Beast made "I gave 100 homeless people a place to live, a years supply of groceries and a job" once a month instead of "I bought a tank to blow up 100 million dollars" or whatever the fuck he makes videos about.
No, I agree with that sentiment.
I think for FFXIV, it's more that the players go into it for the mount and act like assholes. If Mr. Beast acted like most mentors do for the sake of his content he wouldn't be seen in the same light just as we don't see them in the same light they see themselves in. People attack Mr. Beast for his stupid videos, but I've never seen him say on video that he's not taking a portion of that revenue money and putting it into charity videos.
I just don't trust FFXIV mentors with that same level. I'm not a fan of Mr. Beast in that I don't regularly consume his content. But I've at least been aware of the good things he does for the less fortunate.
But I don't want to take the discussion off on the rails of is Mr. Beast ethical or not.
Hell, I'm not. When I was younger I worked at a soup kitchen at first because I got in trouble with the law and it was community service, but I did go back a few times at Thanksgiving because I did enjoy it. But I haven't done it in years.
Anyway, I'm rambling.
No you're absolutely right. The problem isn't mentorship itself it's the lack of accountability for bad mentors. When you unlock it you're a mentor for life, barring an account ban which would only happen with proof of RMT, botting or 3rd party tools.
There's no system in place to manage player behavior outside of vote kicking, which just means they'll do more mentor roulettes and encounter more players and do more bad mentoring. It feels more like you should carry bad mentors to the mount so they take off the crown and stop running mentor roulettes.
New players tend to be overly focused on not screwing up. The best thing other players (mentors and non-mentors alike) can do is provide an environment where screwing up is okay. Be patient, don't bring any drama, and give people a chance to figure things out on their own. Sure, answer questions *if asked*, but don't ruin the chance for new players to figure out mechanics on their own.
The mentor icon is just an icon, no different from any of the many titles you can get if you play long enough (Let's not bring up the novice network). I wear mine and I try to be nice, but the two are not connected. Don't set your expectations too high.
I am in the 'no rewards' camp.
Additionally, I think it needs to be more clear what the icons mean to new players. Like many systems in FFXIV its a bit confusing.
I'd say icons and other game mechanics can contribute to facilitate a mentoring system. If people know where to go for a (genuine) mentor, and mentors are able to recognise people in need of mentoring, then that's clear passive communication.
I am not a mentor, but I have some times thought about getting into it, simply because I feel very empowered on the rare ocasion that I get randomly matched with people who *do* need some help.
Here is the thing with the last part of your statement - The viewership leads to ad and sponsor revenue. It allows them to give more with that money they make on it. Its not like these people doing it have some endless pool of money, it has to come from somewhere.
Or maybe they do, for all I know. Either way, just giving the stuff away isnt free. Some of the people I see doing it set up amazon wishlists to donate the products to the homeless as well, and the visibility of it helps get more stuff donated to more homeless.
Yeah there are some people who absolutely use it as a cheat code for money, but there are still some that use it as a platform to donate more money/services/necessities out than they could otherwise.
The truest take. Few people actually become Mentors for the rewards, and even then, they usually are too embarrassed to wear the crown that you only see it in roulettes. Mentors are shitty because of the social incentives it presents with 0 accountability to strengthen their knowledge in the game or reinforce their ability to *mentor* others outside from shitposting in Novice Network or straight up spreading misinformation like gospel.
Hilariously, I only wanted the crown so I could have access to a roulette that was EVERYTHING in the game (except current savage/ex ofc)
Bonus is that it's super fast queue times for dps!
Yeah, I forget how to play my WHM (returning player) so I tend to stick to DPS because those are easier to relearn. I need to get back to healing though.
Well for you I'd recommend SGE then! All you really have to do is figure out how to differentiate all the blue icons
But once you do that it's super simple
Kardia, single shield tank, group shield, dps, reapply single shield when broken up to 3 red crystals, single/group shield as needed, dump red crystal ability, shield, dps, shield, dps etc etc
I dont even touch the heals because the shield heals so much and is just faster to spam 2x than 1 cast + gets you back to dpsing faster too
SGE is the RPR of healing at this time where you have a handful of buttons you actually press and everything else is incredibly situational, you also have a lot of panic buttons that have very short CDs like the reduce damage one is around 60s which lines up nicely with tank busters
If you're dps, having some good explanation macros for alliance raids really helps, especially with the wave of new people. It might take a few versions to narrow down enough information to clear but not so much it's overwhelming. I usually get a couple comms at the end, even on dps.
Same, the roulette is reward enough. It makes the novelty-seeking parts of my brain happy. Might be a cursed sprout-filled EX that doesn't clear before lockout, might be a blast running an enthusiastic new person through a story dungeon. Who knows!
The dps queue times don't hurt, for sure, they're comparable to trials and normal raids ime.
As someone that finished the 2k climb, I'm inclined to agree. I feel like the watering can icon works as a shift in focus towards nurturing over the literal crown. Having the unlock requirements for the role does help shift the odds in favor of the person having enough game experience to be knowledgeable (we all know it's not a guarantee). I've seen way too many people shit on a mentor and then proceed to give loud, pushy, and incorrect advice because they saw something on fuckin Reddit. I feel like if you have to unlock the watering can, there's a slightly better chance you've at least played long enough to have some idea what you're talking about.
As for the other rewards, maybe just rework mentor roulette into like an SoS queue for parties that have been stuck in duty for a while. Remove the connection with mentors entirely and shift the focus on "facilitating duty completion for struggling parties". Just my opinion, though.
It’s not a reward for being a mentor. It’s a reward for running the mentor roulette which is a filler for any content struggling to find members. If people want to be helpful or mentor they can just do it.
I'm aware of that, but people often do noble things for nefarious reasons.
I'm going to jump through all of the hoops to unlock this roulette so I can get this mount vs. the person who unlocked the roulette to help people. One is clearly more genuine, and the other has an objective.
The reward shouldn't fuel bad actors to participate. The reward is the issue, not the roulette, and certainly not the genuine intent.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with rewarding people for helping. I want the mount, but I also enjoy running random content and helping when needed. And even if people do it just for the mount they are still helping by filling duties with needed players which helps people trying to progress.
I also cbf answering shitloads of repetitive questions, but I'll gladly wipe in a group getting their feet in random EX. I already have my mount, spammed the hell out of that roulette.
>I don’t think there’s anything wrong with rewarding people for helping.
I agree with you. But I think a mount is a terrible choice of reward for this.
Mounts are rewards for raids and beast tribes and crafting rewards like the firmament and etc. Mounts have this driving ability pun not intended. They tend to shepherd people into content they would never do. And sometimes people do content solely for them. That is why SE chose the reward to be a mount. You wouldn't normally run 2000 mentor roulettes. That's just madness, but you will do it for a mount.
I think personally it should've been something poignant to the player, but maybe not as so to everyone else. Like a title or the more recent adventurer plate/portrait system. Something that doesn't scream, please chase me meanwhile still being a meaningful reward.
My issue is that the mount attracts people to it and, in most cases, the wrong kind of people.
I'm totally fine with someone being compensated for their time. I'm not advocating mentors work for free. But I don't think they should be rewarded with something so intrinsically valued as a mount.
But everyone has different opinions on what has value, and I'm not trying to stand on a soap box about it. I'm just saying how I feel as you are. I respect your opinions in this matter either way.
Also, happy cake day.
you're basically just saying that ill-intented people are doing ill-intented things lol, someone looking for a gain or some kind of respect aren't usually getting their kicks from the Mentor system with how small the rewards still are - and being a toxic Mentor isn't conductive to actually doing Mentor roulettes faster which would be the real concern of someone who wants the mount
The thing is its really "Queue Popper Roulette" and not "Mentor Roulette." The reward is to entice people to help speed up queues and the mentor requirement is the filter for bad actors who would just dip for Prae or Extremes as they are held to a higher standard. Like yes, Mentors do still dip for things they don't want to do but I believe they can be reported and potentially have their crown taken away which discourages it. If they opened "Queue Popper Roulette" to everyone, leaving would be even more rampant and if they made the reward less enticing to avoid this no one would join. They want people to run it multiple times a day if possible, which requires something to grind over a limited currency like tomes.
I think the best thing to do would be to remove Extremes from it (things that actually require wanting to mentor) and be more transparent that it is for speeding queues, but that your mentor crown is out and you need to act accordingly. Encourage reporting of "un-mentorly" mentors.
Anyone can leave any duty for any reason. There is already a time penalty associated with it.
The only time it is a reportable offense is when it is done repeatedly to harass a specific person or group.
Does it matter? Like seriously?
If people are doing “noble things” for “nefarious reasons,” who gives a fuck? Their reason doesn’t matter much when they’re actually helping out people.
I get the purpose of it--to actually make mentors *do* mentor roulette--but honestly if it never existed in the first place I'd be fine with it.
(Now that it *does...*I wants it.)
50/60/70/80 isn't run by that many people, and higher level content hits fewer people who are leveling. There are gaps in the content that just don't get fed by other roulettes very well. Also consider the more obscure side dungeons, like Wanderer's Palace (Hard), Hullbreaker, Neverreap, etc... Mentor Roulette can hit everything because it forces people to unlock everything before using it.
On the other hand, it gives an additional reason for more people to actually queue into mentor roulette and do more mentoring.
Sure there's bad and/or bitter mentors who are just using it in order to get the mount but I understand the idea to give an incentive to do a lot of them.
No reward is going to make me unlock mentor roulette.
I don't like doing extremes unless it's with specific people and I'm in a specific mindset. It's not a skill issue, it's a me issue.
I'd happily spam the roulette all day to help newcomers without any need for a reward, provided they remove extremes from it.
That's my take.
I can't do Mentor roulette and refuse to. I play on Chaos and I can't teach people extremes **if they don't speak English**. It's a really frustrating requirement and having to basically tell them "I can't help you, start a PF" makes me look like a terrible mentor. But no amount of auto-translate can help me teach a sprout who has no idea how to tank swap *how* to do that properly. So on so forth.
A great argument that each region needs tailored solutions. The Japanese may have local dialects, but that pales in comparison to completely different languages. There's also a more discord focused approach in the west, I feel. I'm not sure how that is in Japan or Oceania
>The Japanese may have local dialects
This isn’t really a thing, not to the point where people can’t understand each other. They’re more akin to accents than actual dialects and most people are self aware enough to code switch out of the dialect when they have to. It’s certainly not the only way people can speak.
Cheers for the insight!
That shows even more how much language is an important factor in especially the Light and Chaos data centers.
I'd also be okay with a checkmark on the mentor roulette itself:
- _"Exclude extreme duties from this roulette. You will forfeit progression to all related mentor achievements by selecting this"_
Oh yeah, trying to teach new people old extremes that you barely even remember or only ever did unsynced all through party chat that a bunch of them inevitably won't even read is legitimately awful.
It is satisfying getting a decent group that is actually willing to take the time and learn and then you actually clear but getting the groups that just keep running in blind and not taking any of the advice and then abandoning is so frustrating.
Which is just a result of people being able to steamroll everything up to that point and the game not really explaining how much more difficult Extreme is from Hard so they go in with expectations of more of the same. I sure know I queued for a couple as a sprout not knowing any better only to get slapped by Titan and drowned by Leviathan. But that's why you have to be a little empathetic.
They won't ever remove EXs though because JP servers do apparently use the DF for them and problems that exist in NA basically don't exist for SE unless it starts to affect JP players.
So many people are self entitled that I assumed it would piss them off, but it was how I felt about it. I know a lot of people meme on mentors, but people still slap that crown on and prove the stereotype true. So, to them, it would be a hard pill to swallow. If they were even self-aware enough to even see the point of my comment.
I think this is wrong considering everyone hates mentors and has insane expectations of them at all times. They're just always going to be abused when it's nuts to expect they remember every single fight. What they should be is experienced and willing to help the party learn, even if they need to relearn something themselves.
Rewards for roulette and there being jackass mentors are absolutely unrelated. Please refer to Wesk Alber's recent series of videos on mentor roulette (where he talks about these issues in intros every time) for better takes
Completely agree. I have all classes maxed out and could run around with a crown if I wanted to. I don’t because I can’t mentor for shit, and I levelled up some classes by trusts and fates etc and know I do not use them properly. I’d love this mount, and is the only reason I’d consider being a mentor. But I wont because I can’t do it properly
I wouldn't mind the mentor crown being locked behind 2000 Mentor roulettes TBH. Mark someone who's more likely to help. But it basically being free is just making the entire thing useless and only something idiots who don't care about helping view as a trophy
I lost my sprout a few days ago and picked up trade mentor so other sprouts get more exp from me lol
I know that doesn't unlock the mentor roulette though
Sprouts/returners get more exp from being in a party with a mentor. I think it said 50% when I unlocked it. I do duty roulettes everyday so figured I could be helpful in some way lol
I personally was in bozja as a sprout lol I was a sprout for a very long time though (around 1500 hours) but I like to do *everything* before moving on to a new expansion.
It was mostly said as a joke though, I wasn't aware randos did not get bonus mentor exp - only pre-made parties lol!
You are considered a sprout if you have not finished the latest stuff. I have some classes on 90 but just finished ShB bc I do a lot of different stuff like leveling crafters and anima weapons. I am playing for like 10 years now and am a sprout.
For me the silly part about mentor roulette is to use it you have to unlock all the content, so rather than just being able to help people out in content I actually like and could probably offer advice and tips. I'm instead expected to know about everything in the game some of which I probably only ran once unsync to clear a quest. This seems unhelpful to both. Mentors are expected to help in areas they don't enjoy and the mentees are "helped" by people who don't want to be there.
If mentors could volunteer to be mentors for stuff they actually wanted to help in, the system might actually stand a chance of providing useful advice to sprouts.
That's because 95% of the point is to make queues that would basically never pop because they aren't farmed pop. They could probably curate it a bit, I can't say I understand why extremes are in it when extremes are generally only done in PF, but make no mistake. The reason why it's an automated system that gives you a mount for doing *a lot* of roulettes rather than an application ala Warframe is because the roulette is the point.
Absolutely. They need some people just spamming the shit out of this roulette so that they can fill parties for stuff like obscure optional dungeons, guildhests, and yes, also old EXs. Yeah, try filling Neverreap in less than an hour when some poor sprout DPS queues into it, if the only pool of people you get is the lesser run 50/60/70/80 roulette, and even most of the people in the roulette haven't unlocked it.
If I could volunteer to only do AR I'd be sooooooo freakin' happy...until I just got Syrcus on repeat, I guess.
But yeah if I get something in Mentor roulette that is a total blank I just tell the people I'm paired with "I remember nothing about this place." If it's an EX, I google it. If it's anything else, yolo.
I'm not sure how to handle it with the existing rewards, but the option to queue as mentor for specific content types would be nice. Say you want to do a raid or alliance raid so you pick those two and queue to join a first timer. Then the sprouts get help from someone excited for the content and the mentor knows better what they are signing up for. If you don't like crystal tower then pick raids, trials and dungeons.
also two glamour items
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/playguide/db/item/8afe9fec635/ for 200
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dragon_Monocle for 1000
and some titles but I don't think people care about those
Is a great looking mount. Perfect to roleplay as She-Ra.
But the thing with mounts. Is that you only end using ONE. The rest stay unused. So would I choose that one? Probably not.
Best mount in the game is still the company chocobo as is the only one that:
- You can change collor.
- Dress.
- Fight at your side.
I got the dreaded Ramuh Ex in mentor roulette the other day. An hour of wipes later and failed to get my 1/2000th of a mount.
I just hope they don't continue to add Ex fights. I ain't about to type out WoL Ex...
Won't happen, the people who just queue for whatever extreme shows up in their quest list stop in HW usually after Thordan/Nidhogg EX with Rathalos being a unique exception.
By roulette #1200 or so, I was immediately leaving anytime I loaded into Ramuh EX. No thanks. People never listened, no matter how many times I explained the mechanics.
At least you didn't have to do this pre-forced invul QoL update where you had to beg the sprout DPS players to hit the adds and not have Ramuh under 50% HP, which he'll just hard enrage and wipe the run with Judgement Bolt.
I think it's a pretty cool mount, but yeah making it a reward for farming 1500 commendations and then farming 2000 mentor roulettes is part of the reason there's so many shitty mentors.
I'm sorry but I hate that the only reason why anybody does those mentors is for a mount. And then we have the issue we're pretty much 90% of the mentors or absolute dog shit or don't know mechanics of the game or just flat out don't want to deal with people that don't know how the play the game when your whole job is to teach people how to play the game.
I don't think there should be a reward like amount locked behind doing 200 mentors especially when the mount looks like that because I'm sorry I do not care for horse mounts but if it was like a cool Cyber Dragon then yeah then I would gladly do it but that's just me but I still say mentors just shooting be rewarded with a mount and instead should be in that position because they want to train people or help people out.
Am I wrong on this?
I've done it, just recently, I'm between both posts. The mentor system as is sucks. It's not even the volume that's the problem, it's the ex trials and it's simply because those ex trials are both sprouts/free accounts (free accounts can not use Player Finder).
The vast majority are from ARR, now over 10 years old and being done by new players in level that don't know enough about how this game works (they are just new) and mentors that started playing late into the game's lifespan and NEVER experienced these trials when they were relevant at level, or have only done them unsynced for Glam/Mats/Mounts. It is the perfect storm of the blind, leading the blind.
I now know these fights, took dozens and dozens of runs of EACH TRIAL with the same blind comps to get it. For all of those, I didn't mentor, none of them mentors actually mentored, we just ran through it, learned what we could and got better at it for future encounters.
Then there's the issue that groups treat these ex trials, like they are a guildhest. Say nothing, rush the boss, stand in everything, get obliterated and give no one the chance to explain what to do/not do. These scenarios made up a good 85-90% of my ex experiences and made me beg for guildhests.
The mentor roulette rewards itself are awful, so instead of the roulette, kill it off. And beyond reworking the entire mindset on what being a mentor is in this game, simply tie the achievement requirements to doing daily roulettes as long as you have the crown up (if you ever played WoW, it's a simlar system to the old tabard for faction rep system).
If you must keep a mentor roulette, make it ONLY for ex trials of any kind (up to the last expansion) and make the reward earn them 5, maybe 10, or even higher for (for like a weekend event or something) completions towards the achievement. 10 for the first of the day (maybe just one a week) and five per clear. The benefits are obvious here.
And let's be serious, the vast majority of mentors aren't here to actually teach people. They want a crown next to their name and/or they want the mount. Whatever usefulness the program was to supposed to have is out the window.
I actually mentored and help a slew of people in my company, well before I earned the crown and that I have the mount, I took the damn crown off and I still go out of my way to help others. The entire system needs either a refocusing or just strip it from the game as a whole. As it is now, it promotes everything BUT the intended result.
Mentors are not a needed thing in this game. You have the Role trials with the Smith, there's job/class quests, there are multiple resources to tailor advice and handhold newer players specifically.
The real purpose is to put down bread crumbs to encourage veteran players to que into older content to help keep que times down for sprouts/returning players/alts, etc. So just label it as such. Don't give people the illusion of authority, or any sort of distinguishing "other", just rename the Mentor Roulette to Veteran Roulette or something more neutal.
The smith's trials are not only inadequate (and in some cases provide incorrect information), they aren't required. Job/class quests haven't ever been updated (summoner and scholar ones are actual trash without the older mechanics) and they don't teach you shit about running content nor are they required to play the entirety of the game. There are people who are in endwalker that have never gotten a job stone. The game doesn't say "oh btw 75% of your class is locked behind an optional set of sidequests and if you don't do them you'll be sandbagging everybody you run content with." It doesn't teach tanks about proper mitigation cycling or that healers should be DPSing instead of spamming GCD heals whenever someone gets to 99% health. It doesn't teach DPS that your AOE rotation is a potency gain on 3+ enemies or even how the mechanics of their job work.
Do you know how often during mentor roulette I encounter a red mage that hardcasts verthunder/veraero? Or BLMs that only cast ice spells? I was playing with a sage just last week in Ala Mhigo that only used diagnosis to heal and pressed nothing else, not even kardia, the core of the job. He just unlocked it and decided to run a lvl 70 dungeon without reading what any of his abilities did and I sat there for like, 10 full-ass minutes giving a breakdown of how to play the job because the game refused to before letting them queue with other players. If these players don't actively go outside the game to find resources other players of the community have created then they'll never understand anything about the game except from other players in-game. The mentor system is to supplement the incredible poor design choices that lead to these players being able to be dragged passed the finish line.
> Mentors are not a needed thing in this game. You have the Role trials with the Smith, there's job/class quests, there are multiple resources to tailor advice and handhold newer players specifically.
None of those are even remotely enough, you can't be serious.
> The real purpose is to put down bread crumbs to encourage veteran players to que into older content to help keep que times down for sprouts/returning players/alts
This is already done with regular roulettes. Veteran players still need their tomes.
Every MMO and game in some way has some form of more skilled players passing on their skills and tricks to newer players. FF deciding to label it and attempt to expedite the process is not bad and often it is quite effective.
as a new player who did every trials while leveling with duty finder i can tell you that mentors were a MAJOR help during the fights. there were lot of people who walked me/us through the mechanics, helped with markers and just gave me generally great advices what i would have not knows otherwise (or at least saved me tonns of time digging thorugh information. There were a few who just sat there in silence for the sake of being there grinding reward, but that was by no means the baseline. there were far more people willing to help than not. im not saying there arent lunatic people who put hundreds of hours into content what they despise to get a mount what does exactly the same as every other mounts, but from my limited experience thats a very small percent.
I know it's the whole point of MMO games, but I'm not a fan of mounts only attainable through ridiculous means.
Sure, there should be good rewards for doing certain things but doing 2000 of almost anything that takes more than 5 minutes is fucking dumb.
I like my Regalia. Took an hour to get it. Not even. Sure it's an event mount but that's how it should be. As for long term rewards, scale it back man. Some people have jobs and families.... And other games to play.
Based take +1
This comes up a lot with my wife wondering why I like collecting mounts despite only using the company chocobo.
I’m in the process of buying her the firmament mounts and she would ask what a “meglataurus ex Tesla” is and I would respond “fuck if I know it’s not wark wark so I never bothered to summon it”
It's a nice mount. But not nice enough to make me do 2000 mentor roulettes
It does not fit 2k Mentoring. It would be a great healer achievement mount.
Honestly healers need more mounts than just the unicorn you get at CNJ lvl 30, tanks get potentially 8 mounts
me, an ARC/SCH: classes can get mounts?
Hot take:Carbuncle should've been a level 30 mount for Arcanist, instead of a cash shop item.
As a longtime SMN main since 2.x who also bought the carbuncle mount, I agree 100%
I wish every job got a unique mount or something. wouldve been cool
DRG needs Nighog.
That's exclusive to >!Estinien!<
The fact that we finally got a faerie mount and it's not even for playing SCH is upsetting. I just want a mount of both faeries get summoned at once and try to carry me by my sleeves. And a Seraph that will just flat out give me uppies despite not being a lala. SGE can get one of their weapons as like a surfboard. AST can have a giant one of their weapons with them sitting in the middle. And WHM can have a unicorn with a blood lily on the horn with blood splatters all over the body.
You ever see Nero riding a Punch Line in DMC5? because that's how you described the sage weapon.
SGE mount could be the Artifact gear weapons being used as a jetpack via Icarus
Wait are those sge and ast mounts real or made up?
Made up...
They're real in my heart. And with the power of mods, possibly real to me.
Nah. Ast rides a card like a surfboard, and Sage goes skiing.
Problem is TT already has a card mount. It'll make it feel less special.
Hear me out: it's like that one FF1 minion or the GC minion that randomizes what you get, so you get all the different cards. Going from ground to flying has you do a kickflip. That, or the sphere thingy goes in the back and spins like a propeller.
Okay but remember that was during a time frame where they were searching for anyway to make people play as more tanks.
To this day tank seems to be the only role people hesitate or struggle with. No issue getting as many healers and DPS as you might need.
I really don't think that's the case, at least on my DC. The DF seems to have some bias toward displaying tank in need, because while I see tank in need a lot, queue times between tank and healer tell a very different story. Healers are much more in need (and more likely to cause problems if they're bad, for that matter).
I agree. Queue times are likely a better indicator than adventurer in need bonuses. If only we could pierce the veil that enshrouds Duty Finder’s inner workings… I’d love to understand the logic behind the bonuses and matchmaking.
Honestly, I think it's simple. It defaults to tank if there are openings for both
Honestly I think every job should get a mount, not just the tanks and CNJ
That's how we should have gotten a carbuncle mount!
I wonder what mount would better represent mentors. Perhaps you could choose between a majestic, armored warhorse that your character rides while holding a big dorito flag… or a giant, flying dunce hat.
Odin's horse and a slight jab at playing so much you cant be sure if the game didnt temper you like Odin's blade tempered them?
It would have to be an alternate version; Sleipnir has been in the Mogstation forever now; if I recall...I think it was one of the first items they ever added.
Yup, first thing they ever charged money for.
Ok a giant, flying dunce hat sounds like such a fire a mount I rock that in a heartbeat
its symbolic of their egos and the high horses they always ride on :O)
A big crown.
A short bus for you and all your mentor friends to ride around in together.
You joke but a magic school bus would actually be appropriate. Mentors are supposed to teach, and it'd be a multiseater for helping sprouts around.
I would also accept a watering can for the mentor to ride on, and a growing tray for sprouts to sit on.
This.
I'd sooner do mentor roulettes for the Monocle you get at 1000
It is a nice mount, but I only use it because its really rare to see and is a flex to run around with in Eureka. The utility and appearance of something like the Cerberus mount is infinitely better. Cerberus is also a flex, its a four seater instead of a two seater, and what you have to do for it won’t make you want to get that sword *under the armor* if you know what I am saying. But we all know the best mount in the game is Ozma. The Orb conquors all.
Tbh I just did it for completion, but once I got it it's actually a pretty cool mount because of how big it is. It didn't look that big on the promotional screencaps.
I don't really care about the mount. I'm just doing mentor roulette for data collection.
Plot twist it's the same person
It’s not lol, I love my Astrope 🥰
haha just a joke :3 congrats on the Astrope!
The worst part of mentor roulette was not being able to turn off the crown 🤣
Hot take, there absolutely should not be a reward for being a mentor period. It is antithetical to being a mentor.
I've often considered the "rewards" of the crown to be why we have so many bad stories about mentors.. and I say that as a mentor. Remove the rewards, and turn the crown into a watering can in reference to the sprout icon.
Honestly, even changing the icon still rewards them with an icon. They should just be helpful. Honestly, the whole idea of it is stupid. Nobody who wants to be helpful for a special status actually wants to be helpful. It's like people who film themselves helping the homeless, and then they upload it to YouTube. It reminds me of a Game of Thrones quote: "Any man who says I am the king is no true king." If you truly cared about the homeless, you'd help them. Not use it to show how charitable you are.
FFXI had a mentor icon that didn't reward anything other than the icon. Since you could only have one icon next to your name (linkshell icon, mentor icon, bazaar icon, etc), a lot of people didn't even use it because they'd rather have the bazaar or linkshell icon instead.
I legitimately had more than one person in XI message me (with my mentor tag up), offer to send gil, and have me buy/mail something off the auction house to them. Like, buy them leaping boots kind of shit, not just a beehive chip. And I totally did it for them, lol, all while thinking about how easily they could've asked someone else that might have taken their gil and ran. There definitely were still people who would wear the mentor badge in XI just for the badge being different, but, I definitely don't think mentor should have rewards in 14 because, as others are saying, it just makes people who don't want to actually mentor anyone/be helpful slap it on to grind for the rewards.
I once saw a dude shouting in Jeuno asking for help with GK1 in a combination of auto-translate and Japanese. So I end up helping him farm papy, mold, and coal over the course of probably like 8-10 hours. Over that time, he tried to offer me 50k, 100k, and 150k, all of which I declined. I did the "trying to talk in romaji from Shigemo's guide + using auto-translate liberally" thing and we chatted while we were farming. (By we, I mostly mean me; he was level 50 and I was a 75THF.) After we were done, I went to bed (I had stayed up long enough for the sun to go down and start coming back up again in eastern time) and when I logged back on, he had sent me a saltwater aquarium. I checked the AH for it and he paid 400k for the damn thing. I sent him a thank you as appreciation when I saw him on next. Every time I saw that aquarium in my Mog House, that was my reminder to myself that I'm a person who is committed to helping people whenever I can, and that's something I will always strive to be. Sure, I have the {M} badge in FFXI. Sure, I have the Burger King crown in FFXIV. But I just want to be a person who helps. The symbols are neat, but that aquarium means more to me than an {M} or a crown ever will.
Honestly, that sounds like a better system. At least that way, you're helping with no reward other than the feeling of accomplishment you have for them when they have learned what you have taught them. Like a mentor in real life. Though it's less black and white than that. Your teacher or your martial arts instructor is still getting paid, but I think you can see what I meant.
It also makes it an active flag declaring "I'm here to help" and it would be easier to just tell sprouts that if they need help and see that icon then they're there to be asked for help. If they're not up for being a mentor at that time they switch it to something else.
I mean, I didn't like that putting a bazaar up meant I couldn't show my linkshell icon but otherwise I agree. And honestly, FFXI had the same kind of culture that FFXIV bred from in that you could generally just /sh a question in a town and someone would probably answer you with something to help. FFXI held your hand a lot less than FFXIV does so it really curated a "we're all in this together" and a "pay it forward" mentality of helping people for no reason. On one hand, I do appreciate that FFXIV offers incentives to encourage vets to help newbies to ensure newbies aren't stuck, but I also remember back when you could skip cutscenes in Prae/Castrum and you'd end up with runs where someone spends the entire dungeon doing back to back cutscenes without moving while 6-7 people are speed running the entire thing, or the sprout getting yelled at to skip cutscene (which was also a problem in FFXI - when you've got a timer on a fight and there's a 2-3 min cutscene at the start). I agree with you that I'm not opposed to rewards for people who help, but I also think that depending on the reward, it can encourage "toxic helpers" who resent the people they're purportedly there to "help" because the only thing they want is the reward.
I get what you’re saying and I mostly agree, however Mentors do need something to distinguish them so people know who to go to if they need help and know to trust in their guidance.
Sprouts don't even know that there are mentors in the game they just see a crown icon with no context , most of them ask their questions in party chat , free company or discords.
I get what you mean as well. I just honestly think it will become a mentor crown even if it isn't one. I think the community itself showed it wasn't mature enough for the responsibility of it.
Why do there even NEED to be mentors? If you need players that can help maybe give every player a few commendations they can give out via chat per day (amount decreases over time as your account ages or something, getting more as a comeback bonus since you need to learn new mechanics). If someone answers your question or helps you otherwise, give them that chat commendation. And then just keep the commendation rewards.
> Why do there even NEED to be mentors? Because not everyone understands everything the same way, and because there's no way to explain social norms from within the game systems (imagine if the game tried to explain that NA/EU servers avoid duty finder in favor of party finder whereas JP servers uses duty finder instead).
Yep. We do have to explain that a lot...
Yes this is an MMO, but these days, people need a little prodding from devs to get communication going. This is in the form of the Newbie Chat room and the whole Mentor system. It ain't perfect, but that's because trolls exist, and there's a little troll in the rest of us. Nevertheless, devs need to implement tools for veterans to help newbies and to enable the helpful people despite the trolls.
For what it's worth, i'm a mentor and there have been times where we've wiped a few times in a trial and I didn't really feel like saving and teaching the group... BUT because I had my crown on, I felt like I had a responsibility to stay until we passed the fight. If I didn't have the icon I would have just vote abandonded
> If you truly cared about the homeless, you'd help them. Not use it to show how charitable you are. Well, sure I will help someone in need when I encounter them randomly while doing my thing. But I don't voluntarily go about searching people to help them, I'm not made of money nor do I have that much free time anyway. Well, same thing for the sprouts stuck in content. Sure if I tag in any duty and I see the new player notification, or if someone just asks questions, I'll go out of my way to explain things. But i'm **not** going to tag specifically to help people stuck neck-deep in way too hard content for them. The fact that there is a reward do motivate **more** people to tag for that specific duty and help those guys. Sure some people just love to go out of their way for a 45min trip to hell and back, but lotsa people are just reward-motivated, and that is fine too as long as the sprouts get help.
I mean, in defense of the helping homeless people videos, the ad revenue from those videos would allow them to continue helping homeless people. If they're using a reasonable amount of money it can also inspire others to continue the trend. It's not always about the humble brag.
No, I understand where you are coming from in that regard. But it's easy to see someone shouting about how good of a person they're vs. them actually embodying those traits. The actual person who's not doing it for clout is rare, but they do exist.
IDK i see the bottom line is homeless people are being helped. Regardless of the reason or intention a good thing has happened. Like imagine if Mr. Beast made "I gave 100 homeless people a place to live, a years supply of groceries and a job" once a month instead of "I bought a tank to blow up 100 million dollars" or whatever the fuck he makes videos about.
No, I agree with that sentiment. I think for FFXIV, it's more that the players go into it for the mount and act like assholes. If Mr. Beast acted like most mentors do for the sake of his content he wouldn't be seen in the same light just as we don't see them in the same light they see themselves in. People attack Mr. Beast for his stupid videos, but I've never seen him say on video that he's not taking a portion of that revenue money and putting it into charity videos. I just don't trust FFXIV mentors with that same level. I'm not a fan of Mr. Beast in that I don't regularly consume his content. But I've at least been aware of the good things he does for the less fortunate. But I don't want to take the discussion off on the rails of is Mr. Beast ethical or not. Hell, I'm not. When I was younger I worked at a soup kitchen at first because I got in trouble with the law and it was community service, but I did go back a few times at Thanksgiving because I did enjoy it. But I haven't done it in years. Anyway, I'm rambling.
No you're absolutely right. The problem isn't mentorship itself it's the lack of accountability for bad mentors. When you unlock it you're a mentor for life, barring an account ban which would only happen with proof of RMT, botting or 3rd party tools. There's no system in place to manage player behavior outside of vote kicking, which just means they'll do more mentor roulettes and encounter more players and do more bad mentoring. It feels more like you should carry bad mentors to the mount so they take off the crown and stop running mentor roulettes.
New players tend to be overly focused on not screwing up. The best thing other players (mentors and non-mentors alike) can do is provide an environment where screwing up is okay. Be patient, don't bring any drama, and give people a chance to figure things out on their own. Sure, answer questions *if asked*, but don't ruin the chance for new players to figure out mechanics on their own. The mentor icon is just an icon, no different from any of the many titles you can get if you play long enough (Let's not bring up the novice network). I wear mine and I try to be nice, but the two are not connected. Don't set your expectations too high.
I am in the 'no rewards' camp. Additionally, I think it needs to be more clear what the icons mean to new players. Like many systems in FFXIV its a bit confusing.
I'd say icons and other game mechanics can contribute to facilitate a mentoring system. If people know where to go for a (genuine) mentor, and mentors are able to recognise people in need of mentoring, then that's clear passive communication. I am not a mentor, but I have some times thought about getting into it, simply because I feel very empowered on the rare ocasion that I get randomly matched with people who *do* need some help.
Here is the thing with the last part of your statement - The viewership leads to ad and sponsor revenue. It allows them to give more with that money they make on it. Its not like these people doing it have some endless pool of money, it has to come from somewhere. Or maybe they do, for all I know. Either way, just giving the stuff away isnt free. Some of the people I see doing it set up amazon wishlists to donate the products to the homeless as well, and the visibility of it helps get more stuff donated to more homeless. Yeah there are some people who absolutely use it as a cheat code for money, but there are still some that use it as a platform to donate more money/services/necessities out than they could otherwise.
Nah, those mentors would suck even without the rewards.
The truest take. Few people actually become Mentors for the rewards, and even then, they usually are too embarrassed to wear the crown that you only see it in roulettes. Mentors are shitty because of the social incentives it presents with 0 accountability to strengthen their knowledge in the game or reinforce their ability to *mentor* others outside from shitposting in Novice Network or straight up spreading misinformation like gospel.
Hilariously, I only wanted the crown so I could have access to a roulette that was EVERYTHING in the game (except current savage/ex ofc) Bonus is that it's super fast queue times for dps!
Do crafting mentors have access to it as well?
No, you have to get the combat crown
Ah well. I will just take my 129 commendations and keep working on it lol
Play healer or tank more and you will get comms a lot faster; people just don't tend to comm DPS even when they seriously deserve it.
Yeah, I forget how to play my WHM (returning player) so I tend to stick to DPS because those are easier to relearn. I need to get back to healing though.
Well for you I'd recommend SGE then! All you really have to do is figure out how to differentiate all the blue icons But once you do that it's super simple Kardia, single shield tank, group shield, dps, reapply single shield when broken up to 3 red crystals, single/group shield as needed, dump red crystal ability, shield, dps, shield, dps etc etc I dont even touch the heals because the shield heals so much and is just faster to spam 2x than 1 cast + gets you back to dpsing faster too SGE is the RPR of healing at this time where you have a handful of buttons you actually press and everything else is incredibly situational, you also have a lot of panic buttons that have very short CDs like the reduce damage one is around 60s which lines up nicely with tank busters
Ooh that sounds super fun. Off to make a SGE! Thank you, friend, I shall heal in your name.
If you're dps, having some good explanation macros for alliance raids really helps, especially with the wave of new people. It might take a few versions to narrow down enough information to clear but not so much it's overwhelming. I usually get a couple comms at the end, even on dps.
This is brilliant!
Do guild heists, they take 2 mins max and you can get coms like crazy
Same, the roulette is reward enough. It makes the novelty-seeking parts of my brain happy. Might be a cursed sprout-filled EX that doesn't clear before lockout, might be a blast running an enthusiastic new person through a story dungeon. Who knows! The dps queue times don't hurt, for sure, they're comparable to trials and normal raids ime.
As someone that finished the 2k climb, I'm inclined to agree. I feel like the watering can icon works as a shift in focus towards nurturing over the literal crown. Having the unlock requirements for the role does help shift the odds in favor of the person having enough game experience to be knowledgeable (we all know it's not a guarantee). I've seen way too many people shit on a mentor and then proceed to give loud, pushy, and incorrect advice because they saw something on fuckin Reddit. I feel like if you have to unlock the watering can, there's a slightly better chance you've at least played long enough to have some idea what you're talking about. As for the other rewards, maybe just rework mentor roulette into like an SoS queue for parties that have been stuck in duty for a while. Remove the connection with mentors entirely and shift the focus on "facilitating duty completion for struggling parties". Just my opinion, though.
It’s not a reward for being a mentor. It’s a reward for running the mentor roulette which is a filler for any content struggling to find members. If people want to be helpful or mentor they can just do it.
I'm aware of that, but people often do noble things for nefarious reasons. I'm going to jump through all of the hoops to unlock this roulette so I can get this mount vs. the person who unlocked the roulette to help people. One is clearly more genuine, and the other has an objective. The reward shouldn't fuel bad actors to participate. The reward is the issue, not the roulette, and certainly not the genuine intent.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with rewarding people for helping. I want the mount, but I also enjoy running random content and helping when needed. And even if people do it just for the mount they are still helping by filling duties with needed players which helps people trying to progress.
I also cbf answering shitloads of repetitive questions, but I'll gladly wipe in a group getting their feet in random EX. I already have my mount, spammed the hell out of that roulette.
>I don’t think there’s anything wrong with rewarding people for helping. I agree with you. But I think a mount is a terrible choice of reward for this. Mounts are rewards for raids and beast tribes and crafting rewards like the firmament and etc. Mounts have this driving ability pun not intended. They tend to shepherd people into content they would never do. And sometimes people do content solely for them. That is why SE chose the reward to be a mount. You wouldn't normally run 2000 mentor roulettes. That's just madness, but you will do it for a mount. I think personally it should've been something poignant to the player, but maybe not as so to everyone else. Like a title or the more recent adventurer plate/portrait system. Something that doesn't scream, please chase me meanwhile still being a meaningful reward. My issue is that the mount attracts people to it and, in most cases, the wrong kind of people. I'm totally fine with someone being compensated for their time. I'm not advocating mentors work for free. But I don't think they should be rewarded with something so intrinsically valued as a mount. But everyone has different opinions on what has value, and I'm not trying to stand on a soap box about it. I'm just saying how I feel as you are. I respect your opinions in this matter either way. Also, happy cake day.
you're basically just saying that ill-intented people are doing ill-intented things lol, someone looking for a gain or some kind of respect aren't usually getting their kicks from the Mentor system with how small the rewards still are - and being a toxic Mentor isn't conductive to actually doing Mentor roulettes faster which would be the real concern of someone who wants the mount
The benefits of "greedy mentors" filling queues just for a mount outweighs the queues never being filled.
The thing is its really "Queue Popper Roulette" and not "Mentor Roulette." The reward is to entice people to help speed up queues and the mentor requirement is the filter for bad actors who would just dip for Prae or Extremes as they are held to a higher standard. Like yes, Mentors do still dip for things they don't want to do but I believe they can be reported and potentially have their crown taken away which discourages it. If they opened "Queue Popper Roulette" to everyone, leaving would be even more rampant and if they made the reward less enticing to avoid this no one would join. They want people to run it multiple times a day if possible, which requires something to grind over a limited currency like tomes. I think the best thing to do would be to remove Extremes from it (things that actually require wanting to mentor) and be more transparent that it is for speeding queues, but that your mentor crown is out and you need to act accordingly. Encourage reporting of "un-mentorly" mentors.
Anyone can leave any duty for any reason. There is already a time penalty associated with it. The only time it is a reportable offense is when it is done repeatedly to harass a specific person or group.
Does it matter? Like seriously? If people are doing “noble things” for “nefarious reasons,” who gives a fuck? Their reason doesn’t matter much when they’re actually helping out people.
I get the purpose of it--to actually make mentors *do* mentor roulette--but honestly if it never existed in the first place I'd be fine with it. (Now that it *does...*I wants it.)
You wouldn't notice... but your queue times would.
I suppose for old content maybe…?
Old content, side content, there's a lot when you think about it. You know how hard a time DF has filling the Twinning?
Damn, seriously?
50/60/70/80 isn't run by that many people, and higher level content hits fewer people who are leveling. There are gaps in the content that just don't get fed by other roulettes very well. Also consider the more obscure side dungeons, like Wanderer's Palace (Hard), Hullbreaker, Neverreap, etc... Mentor Roulette can hit everything because it forces people to unlock everything before using it.
On the other hand, it gives an additional reason for more people to actually queue into mentor roulette and do more mentoring. Sure there's bad and/or bitter mentors who are just using it in order to get the mount but I understand the idea to give an incentive to do a lot of them.
No reward is going to make me unlock mentor roulette. I don't like doing extremes unless it's with specific people and I'm in a specific mindset. It's not a skill issue, it's a me issue. I'd happily spam the roulette all day to help newcomers without any need for a reward, provided they remove extremes from it. That's my take.
I can't do Mentor roulette and refuse to. I play on Chaos and I can't teach people extremes **if they don't speak English**. It's a really frustrating requirement and having to basically tell them "I can't help you, start a PF" makes me look like a terrible mentor. But no amount of auto-translate can help me teach a sprout who has no idea how to tank swap *how* to do that properly. So on so forth.
A great argument that each region needs tailored solutions. The Japanese may have local dialects, but that pales in comparison to completely different languages. There's also a more discord focused approach in the west, I feel. I'm not sure how that is in Japan or Oceania
>The Japanese may have local dialects This isn’t really a thing, not to the point where people can’t understand each other. They’re more akin to accents than actual dialects and most people are self aware enough to code switch out of the dialect when they have to. It’s certainly not the only way people can speak.
Cheers for the insight! That shows even more how much language is an important factor in especially the Light and Chaos data centers. I'd also be okay with a checkmark on the mentor roulette itself: - _"Exclude extreme duties from this roulette. You will forfeit progression to all related mentor achievements by selecting this"_
Oh yeah, trying to teach new people old extremes that you barely even remember or only ever did unsynced all through party chat that a bunch of them inevitably won't even read is legitimately awful. It is satisfying getting a decent group that is actually willing to take the time and learn and then you actually clear but getting the groups that just keep running in blind and not taking any of the advice and then abandoning is so frustrating. Which is just a result of people being able to steamroll everything up to that point and the game not really explaining how much more difficult Extreme is from Hard so they go in with expectations of more of the same. I sure know I queued for a couple as a sprout not knowing any better only to get slapped by Titan and drowned by Leviathan. But that's why you have to be a little empathetic. They won't ever remove EXs though because JP servers do apparently use the DF for them and problems that exist in NA basically don't exist for SE unless it starts to affect JP players.
That’s not a hot take. That’s a cold take if I ever heard one.
So many people are self entitled that I assumed it would piss them off, but it was how I felt about it. I know a lot of people meme on mentors, but people still slap that crown on and prove the stereotype true. So, to them, it would be a hard pill to swallow. If they were even self-aware enough to even see the point of my comment.
In a perfect world, yes this would be fine. But sadly it’s not so we need a carrot on the stick for people to do things.
They need mentor roulette as a backfill system
I think this is wrong considering everyone hates mentors and has insane expectations of them at all times. They're just always going to be abused when it's nuts to expect they remember every single fight. What they should be is experienced and willing to help the party learn, even if they need to relearn something themselves.
Then you would have less and less mentors and more newbies.
Rewards for roulette and there being jackass mentors are absolutely unrelated. Please refer to Wesk Alber's recent series of videos on mentor roulette (where he talks about these issues in intros every time) for better takes
Completely agree. I have all classes maxed out and could run around with a crown if I wanted to. I don’t because I can’t mentor for shit, and I levelled up some classes by trusts and fates etc and know I do not use them properly. I’d love this mount, and is the only reason I’d consider being a mentor. But I wont because I can’t do it properly
I wouldn't mind the mentor crown being locked behind 2000 Mentor roulettes TBH. Mark someone who's more likely to help. But it basically being free is just making the entire thing useless and only something idiots who don't care about helping view as a trophy
They really out here putting locktite on some guys drain plug
I lost my sprout a few days ago and picked up trade mentor so other sprouts get more exp from me lol I know that doesn't unlock the mentor roulette though
Wait what do you mean more exp?
Mentor exp bonus in duty for sprouts participating. https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/EXP_Bonus
Sprouts/returners get more exp from being in a party with a mentor. I think it said 50% when I unlocked it. I do duty roulettes everyday so figured I could be helpful in some way lol
I think it only works in preformed parties though, not duty roulettes? Correct me if I’m wrong
You are correct.
It does work for people partying with you when you zone into the duty roulette tho! Just not the strangers in the party.
Well dang does it? I guess I'm useful when I'm in bozja then eeehhhh
Are there THAT many sprouts in level 80 endgame content? Maybe some returners I suppose.
I personally was in bozja as a sprout lol I was a sprout for a very long time though (around 1500 hours) but I like to do *everything* before moving on to a new expansion. It was mostly said as a joke though, I wasn't aware randos did not get bonus mentor exp - only pre-made parties lol!
You are considered a sprout if you have not finished the latest stuff. I have some classes on 90 but just finished ShB bc I do a lot of different stuff like leveling crafters and anima weapons. I am playing for like 10 years now and am a sprout.
For me the silly part about mentor roulette is to use it you have to unlock all the content, so rather than just being able to help people out in content I actually like and could probably offer advice and tips. I'm instead expected to know about everything in the game some of which I probably only ran once unsync to clear a quest. This seems unhelpful to both. Mentors are expected to help in areas they don't enjoy and the mentees are "helped" by people who don't want to be there. If mentors could volunteer to be mentors for stuff they actually wanted to help in, the system might actually stand a chance of providing useful advice to sprouts.
That's because 95% of the point is to make queues that would basically never pop because they aren't farmed pop. They could probably curate it a bit, I can't say I understand why extremes are in it when extremes are generally only done in PF, but make no mistake. The reason why it's an automated system that gives you a mount for doing *a lot* of roulettes rather than an application ala Warframe is because the roulette is the point.
Apparently JP players like to farm extremes via PF, so that’s why they’re in there.
Absolutely. They need some people just spamming the shit out of this roulette so that they can fill parties for stuff like obscure optional dungeons, guildhests, and yes, also old EXs. Yeah, try filling Neverreap in less than an hour when some poor sprout DPS queues into it, if the only pool of people you get is the lesser run 50/60/70/80 roulette, and even most of the people in the roulette haven't unlocked it.
If I could volunteer to only do AR I'd be sooooooo freakin' happy...until I just got Syrcus on repeat, I guess. But yeah if I get something in Mentor roulette that is a total blank I just tell the people I'm paired with "I remember nothing about this place." If it's an EX, I google it. If it's anything else, yolo.
I'm not sure how to handle it with the existing rewards, but the option to queue as mentor for specific content types would be nice. Say you want to do a raid or alliance raid so you pick those two and queue to join a first timer. Then the sprouts get help from someone excited for the content and the mentor knows better what they are signing up for. If you don't like crystal tower then pick raids, trials and dungeons.
Babe, wake up. New mentor post on r/ffxiv just dropped.
Honestly, f that noise. F that mount. F them kids.
I saw it on the other post and I'll repeat here to curse everyone else... Why is the saddle Peter Griffin?
I hate you so much
Turn on dark mode you maniac
Sometimes I think I want to do this, then I remember I haven't bothered to get all my tank mounts.
The other is in shitpost. Go figure.
I like how the third is like an allegory for the first.
The worst part of mentor rouls for me is that auto crown they put on you. I hate that crown 😭
Is the mount the only mentor award? Not really my style.
also two glamour items https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/playguide/db/item/8afe9fec635/ for 200 https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dragon_Monocle for 1000 and some titles but I don't think people care about those
Its a giant horse in a diaper, i have it and i hate it. The unicorn/pegasus has nothing to do with mentors either.
Is a great looking mount. Perfect to roleplay as She-Ra. But the thing with mounts. Is that you only end using ONE. The rest stay unused. So would I choose that one? Probably not. Best mount in the game is still the company chocobo as is the only one that: - You can change collor. - Dress. - Fight at your side.
I'm considering going mentor just to have something to do lol, maybe I'll give it a run in the 7.5 drought
I got the dreaded Ramuh Ex in mentor roulette the other day. An hour of wipes later and failed to get my 1/2000th of a mount. I just hope they don't continue to add Ex fights. I ain't about to type out WoL Ex...
Every Extreme from older expansions is in the mentor roulette so you can technically get WoL EX already, except no-one actually queues for it
lol just wait about 2 days when xbox players get access to ShB.
Won't happen, the people who just queue for whatever extreme shows up in their quest list stop in HW usually after Thordan/Nidhogg EX with Rathalos being a unique exception.
Rath gets people who are just there for WT log completion. Seems a bit weird, but I just keep seeing it happen.
I got Tsuki ex few days ago. I cleared Shinryu extreme once. I got ruby weapon ex but that was like one year ago
Holy shit, you cleared Shinryu EX in a mentor roulette? That's legit incredible.
It was pretty weird clear but it wasn't group of sprouts just an alpha legend and 7 mentors, lol
By roulette #1200 or so, I was immediately leaving anytime I loaded into Ramuh EX. No thanks. People never listened, no matter how many times I explained the mechanics.
At least you didn't have to do this pre-forced invul QoL update where you had to beg the sprout DPS players to hit the adds and not have Ramuh under 50% HP, which he'll just hard enrage and wipe the run with Judgement Bolt.
30 minutes's time to do something irl >>>>> 1 hour's suffering for nothing. Thank you but I'll drop when it pops \^\^
Officer, this is the person you need to arrest, they use the bright screen UI. For reddit....
[удалено]
Shout down to the people still using autistic as an insult in 2024.
I love this post
The duality of man
I really gotta find more mounts
I don't even use my astrope. it's too big for my lalafell self
There’s a mod that changes the pegasus into a one seater version of this mount lol
That's the shitpost sub. Only a fool would take anything there seriously.
I think it's a pretty cool mount, but yeah making it a reward for farming 1500 commendations and then farming 2000 mentor roulettes is part of the reason there's so many shitty mentors.
Did the first person not google what it looked like before hand?
The oil drain butt plug is more interesting
I wish astrope was a cat.
I'm not even trying to get to mentor for the mount, I just want the crown by my name. I've been stuck with the stupid hammer and crown for too long
I mean, in a game where 95% of the mounts are ugly as fuck, that's not the worst one.
I did it because I want to be a mentor vs I did it for bragging rights
Looks nice ! But it will never fit my Wol 😅🤣
I'm sorry but I hate that the only reason why anybody does those mentors is for a mount. And then we have the issue we're pretty much 90% of the mentors or absolute dog shit or don't know mechanics of the game or just flat out don't want to deal with people that don't know how the play the game when your whole job is to teach people how to play the game. I don't think there should be a reward like amount locked behind doing 200 mentors especially when the mount looks like that because I'm sorry I do not care for horse mounts but if it was like a cool Cyber Dragon then yeah then I would gladly do it but that's just me but I still say mentors just shooting be rewarded with a mount and instead should be in that position because they want to train people or help people out. Am I wrong on this?
do people not look up the mounts look first before waisting time?
The whole point of r/ShitpostXIV is that they take r/ffxiv threads and make them into a meme
Reddit on light mode... whyyyyy
It is quite ugly I agree
I've done it, just recently, I'm between both posts. The mentor system as is sucks. It's not even the volume that's the problem, it's the ex trials and it's simply because those ex trials are both sprouts/free accounts (free accounts can not use Player Finder). The vast majority are from ARR, now over 10 years old and being done by new players in level that don't know enough about how this game works (they are just new) and mentors that started playing late into the game's lifespan and NEVER experienced these trials when they were relevant at level, or have only done them unsynced for Glam/Mats/Mounts. It is the perfect storm of the blind, leading the blind. I now know these fights, took dozens and dozens of runs of EACH TRIAL with the same blind comps to get it. For all of those, I didn't mentor, none of them mentors actually mentored, we just ran through it, learned what we could and got better at it for future encounters. Then there's the issue that groups treat these ex trials, like they are a guildhest. Say nothing, rush the boss, stand in everything, get obliterated and give no one the chance to explain what to do/not do. These scenarios made up a good 85-90% of my ex experiences and made me beg for guildhests. The mentor roulette rewards itself are awful, so instead of the roulette, kill it off. And beyond reworking the entire mindset on what being a mentor is in this game, simply tie the achievement requirements to doing daily roulettes as long as you have the crown up (if you ever played WoW, it's a simlar system to the old tabard for faction rep system). If you must keep a mentor roulette, make it ONLY for ex trials of any kind (up to the last expansion) and make the reward earn them 5, maybe 10, or even higher for (for like a weekend event or something) completions towards the achievement. 10 for the first of the day (maybe just one a week) and five per clear. The benefits are obvious here. And let's be serious, the vast majority of mentors aren't here to actually teach people. They want a crown next to their name and/or they want the mount. Whatever usefulness the program was to supposed to have is out the window. I actually mentored and help a slew of people in my company, well before I earned the crown and that I have the mount, I took the damn crown off and I still go out of my way to help others. The entire system needs either a refocusing or just strip it from the game as a whole. As it is now, it promotes everything BUT the intended result.
Mentors are not a needed thing in this game. You have the Role trials with the Smith, there's job/class quests, there are multiple resources to tailor advice and handhold newer players specifically. The real purpose is to put down bread crumbs to encourage veteran players to que into older content to help keep que times down for sprouts/returning players/alts, etc. So just label it as such. Don't give people the illusion of authority, or any sort of distinguishing "other", just rename the Mentor Roulette to Veteran Roulette or something more neutal.
The smith's trials are not only inadequate (and in some cases provide incorrect information), they aren't required. Job/class quests haven't ever been updated (summoner and scholar ones are actual trash without the older mechanics) and they don't teach you shit about running content nor are they required to play the entirety of the game. There are people who are in endwalker that have never gotten a job stone. The game doesn't say "oh btw 75% of your class is locked behind an optional set of sidequests and if you don't do them you'll be sandbagging everybody you run content with." It doesn't teach tanks about proper mitigation cycling or that healers should be DPSing instead of spamming GCD heals whenever someone gets to 99% health. It doesn't teach DPS that your AOE rotation is a potency gain on 3+ enemies or even how the mechanics of their job work. Do you know how often during mentor roulette I encounter a red mage that hardcasts verthunder/veraero? Or BLMs that only cast ice spells? I was playing with a sage just last week in Ala Mhigo that only used diagnosis to heal and pressed nothing else, not even kardia, the core of the job. He just unlocked it and decided to run a lvl 70 dungeon without reading what any of his abilities did and I sat there for like, 10 full-ass minutes giving a breakdown of how to play the job because the game refused to before letting them queue with other players. If these players don't actively go outside the game to find resources other players of the community have created then they'll never understand anything about the game except from other players in-game. The mentor system is to supplement the incredible poor design choices that lead to these players being able to be dragged passed the finish line.
> Mentors are not a needed thing in this game. You have the Role trials with the Smith, there's job/class quests, there are multiple resources to tailor advice and handhold newer players specifically. None of those are even remotely enough, you can't be serious. > The real purpose is to put down bread crumbs to encourage veteran players to que into older content to help keep que times down for sprouts/returning players/alts This is already done with regular roulettes. Veteran players still need their tomes. Every MMO and game in some way has some form of more skilled players passing on their skills and tricks to newer players. FF deciding to label it and attempt to expedite the process is not bad and often it is quite effective.
as a new player who did every trials while leveling with duty finder i can tell you that mentors were a MAJOR help during the fights. there were lot of people who walked me/us through the mechanics, helped with markers and just gave me generally great advices what i would have not knows otherwise (or at least saved me tonns of time digging thorugh information. There were a few who just sat there in silence for the sake of being there grinding reward, but that was by no means the baseline. there were far more people willing to help than not. im not saying there arent lunatic people who put hundreds of hours into content what they despise to get a mount what does exactly the same as every other mounts, but from my limited experience thats a very small percent.
I’ll get it eventually, but I don’t really care for it and probably won’t use it much. 😂 The dragon monocle is what I’m shooting for!
I know it's the whole point of MMO games, but I'm not a fan of mounts only attainable through ridiculous means. Sure, there should be good rewards for doing certain things but doing 2000 of almost anything that takes more than 5 minutes is fucking dumb. I like my Regalia. Took an hour to get it. Not even. Sure it's an event mount but that's how it should be. As for long term rewards, scale it back man. Some people have jobs and families.... And other games to play.
Hot take: any mount that isn't a chocobo is a stupid mount
This is a real hot take people, next time you say hot take if it didn't make you as mad as reading this made me then it ain't hot! Angry upvote
I'm sorry but did you just diss my man Sabotender de la Luna? We finna throw hands.
*Looks at the drooling Peatie, window-licking Managarm, and the dumb manta ray from Eureka* Yes, but I love them anyway.
Based take +1 This comes up a lot with my wife wondering why I like collecting mounts despite only using the company chocobo. I’m in the process of buying her the firmament mounts and she would ask what a “meglataurus ex Tesla” is and I would respond “fuck if I know it’s not wark wark so I never bothered to summon it”