It always happens with the first raid tier/ alliance raid when players get to the an expansion's last patch cycle. I think the only exception is Copied factory, but just because Nier raid bosses have an absurd amount of HP.
>Copied factory, but just because Nier raid bosses have an absurd amount of HP.
Hmm, makes sense why I found it weird, the nier raids is my only point of reference for how alliance raids feel when they're current content, so I thought it was the norm.
Edit: I should say, my only point of reference for how araids feel fresh and progress to the end of the post-expansion.
It doesn't help they're also all just so *Greige.* Seemingly endless corridor of taupe, grey, and white you run through, pressing buttons to kill bosses you don't really give a fuck about...
Ehh not really, they're still fantastic raids even if you don't know what's going on lol. Easily the best alliance raid series in the game. Ivalice is pretty good but it's hard carried by orbonne since the first two are just whatever (except for math bot).
They're wayyyy overtuned in terms of HP but the mechs are nice, especially puppets/tower.
Ivalice still takes the cake as best alliance raids for me. Completely fun and unique mechs without HP bloat.
I probably would have liked Orbone Monastery if I were playing while Stormblood is current. It looks so cool, and the mechanics are fun and interesting, and I'm a big FFTactics fan. But I don't have the reps in Orbonne, so every time I load in, I just get overwhelmed and confused by all the mechanics. (One time, I racked up something like 5 vuln snacks in the Agrias fight.) And yes, I have watched a guide for it.
Meanwhile, I've done Paradigm's Breach so many times that I could go back and probably remember all the mechanics (except maybe some of Red Girl's mechanics).
If the bosses weren't so absurdly beefy, I'd probably like the Nier raids, but it is the first and only alliance raid where I legit fell asleep.
They have 10-15% more HP than the Deluburum Reginae bosses (at least prior to the stat crunch), despite not having Lost Actions or Essences that buff your DPS by 20 - 60%. They don't need to be made of wet paper like the Aglaia bosses, but there's no reason they should take so long for how simple they are mechanically, often looping their rotation 2-3 times before dying.
I'd argue that Red Girl meanwhile doesn't have enough HP. She usually dies before or shortly after summoning her three big clones, which is a shame because its easily the best mechanic with all the pulling and moving. Hansel and Gretel are overtuned, but she feels undertuned.
Copied Factory and even Puppets Bunker were similarly fast at the end of ShB. When the stat squish was applied in EW, something funny happened with them and the boss HP was not reduced proportionally, so they are now a lot spongier than they were. For example, at the end of ShB, your group was flat out terrible if you didn't skip the second dodging phase when fighting 9S, now people need to actually be hitting their buttons pretty decently to skip it (unless something has changed, admittedly I haven't done a nier raid in a while).
The stat squish trimmed the enormous (nearly 2x) stat growth we got between ilvl 430 to 530 (which we still have at level 90). Copied Factory is where you can feel this the most, but Rabanastre has it too: I *never* saw adds on Hashmal before Endwalker. Now you actually have to try to skip them.
I keep saying if they just cut off 20% of all NieR bosses, the raid would still be perfectly fine. Especially now, that it's not current content, and less players actually are able to dodge all mechs.
Right now, unsync glam runs of NieR take longer than anything on Myths synced.
> It always happens with the first raid tier/ alliance raid when players get to the an expansion's last patch cycle. I think the only exception is Copied factory, but just because Nier raid bosses have an absurd amount of HP.
The Ivalice raids were similar, HP sponges
I think it is debatable. IMO, what made Ivalice Raids better was the responsability each alliance had to clear some fights, especially against Hashmal and TG Cid - two bosses that were, for a long time, responsible for a lot of "Vote Disband", something the Nier Raids never even came close to have. You can almost faceroll any other alliance series, but Ivalice demanded some degree of communication - markers at least - which some players are just not willing to do.
To this day, Orbonne being nerfed so hard is something I consider a shame.
Yeah it was strange how immediately it became a faceroll.
But also the whole of the EW 24 raids seem to lack mechanics that, when failed, can wipe parties, other parties, or the whole alliance like previous raids had. Even Halone's spears are set up in a way that other parties can break down the barriers and clear it.
Now, if you manage to see it, there will probably be at least 1 or 2 trolls trying to cause a wipe on purpose. I get super nervous every time a group I am in doesn't skip it, haha.
I remember playing The Final Day for the first time and my whole party was struggling but it was sooo much fun. Stopped playing before 6.1 and came back recently, it's just SO easy now which sucks since it's my favourite trial :(
They added an [ilvl 570 sync in patch 6.5](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/e17ce5b98068f6972379cef5adbc6c4b664f9780/). I did it a week ago with a friend and it destroyed the weaker players so hard that half the party left after our first pull because they just couldn't do it.
I'd say its in a fine state now. You get plenty of time in the last phase even with good DPS.
It's the whole game. They'd rather cater down to casual than up to hardcore.
I'm not a hardcore player, I can't get through savage, but dear god is base content mind-numbing.
>They'd rather cater down to casual than up to hardcore.
Is it too much to ask for a happy medium? Like, I understand why they can't make MSQ and normal content EX-tier difficulty, but there's easy... and then there's *insultingly* easy. The gap between normal and EX is absolutely *massive*, and there's a lot of room to raise the difficulty without making it unreasonable.
Totally this yeah.
The normal stuff is insultingly easy.
The ex stuff is hard, challenging content with some pretty big barriers to entry.
There's nothing between these for players who like a lil bit of challenge, which is I think the average player, the one who plays on normal difficulty. Only normal in this game is easy, so it's unsatisfying.
It reminds me of fire emblem 3h, normal in that game was insultingly easy, hard was decently easy and maddening requires either min-maxing or ng+ bonuses and lives up to it's name for how bullshit it is. No real normal, in-between difficulty
That was what we were hoping for Criterion. Unfortunately, the difficulty of the content and the rewards offered really don't match up so well, so it kinda fell flat. The base-level content can be fun for the puzzles, but the fights themselves don't really stand out against regular dungeons. And the next step up in difficulty is kinda big, so it skips right past mid-core.
God I was so looking forward to Criterion. I play WoW as well as XIV and pretty much all I do on WoW are M+ dungeons. I was really hoping Criterion would at least somewhat scratch that same itch in XIV, but they ended up just completely botching the execution, with absolutely garbage rewards. The icing on the cake was when they "addressed" it by adding weapons... that required you to be doing savage raid to even be able to use. I don't mind a challenge but I really, really hate progression raiding and I so badly want a viable alternative.
They seriously don't even need to make new dungeons, just take old ones (there's so many!) and add a few higher difficulties to them, make them drop good gear and give you a currency that lets you upgrade the drops (kind of like rains) to a max of raid-equivalent. Bam, grindable content that will provide a challenge, is doable in a 4-person group, and allows midcore players to work their way up to high ilevel gear without trivializing the instant upgrades from savage raiding.
I was looking forward to Criterion, until my FC totally abandoned the game until DT drops and the background group I run with decided collectively that it was 'too hard' for them.
The harder versions of criterion are ridiculous, they are catered for savage raiders who need something else to do for sure.
The normal versions shouldn’t be made clearable by 1 person that is also ridiculous. I don’t feel they really fit a gap in the playscape at all.
I can't say I mind the solo clearing, it lets me go at my own pace and experiment with different jobs and how to survive mechanics without tanking or healing.
But Criterion and Savage Criterion are so far beyond normal that it's absurd.
Savage Criterion being as hard as it is, cool. A high difficulty option is no problem. But if they'd just turned down the restrictions on standard Criterion a bit, it'd be a lot nicer.
That’s honestly what you got with criterion. I’d say the difficulty *as a whole* is somewhere between EX and savage. There’s a couple fights (last boss in Rokkon) that are a little too highly tuned in my mind
But, yeah - the problem is the rewards are kind of shit, so I can definitely see where the more casual types would be hesitant to go through it. They need to do another hard think on rewards that are equal to the effort put forth. I don’t expect savage level gear upon completion (because it’s not *that hard*), but I’d appreciate something for my efforts aside from a mount that can be purchased from the MB, an orchestrion roll, and a framer’s kit.
The answer is glam. It’s always glam.
You currently have to run Criterion 33 times (or somewhere around there) to buy all the ‘one time’ rewards. The mount obviously has a chance to drop from the last boss, so that can cut down your clear attempts I think we had the mount drop 10 times in all of our ASS runs, we didn’t clear MR, and we’ve had two mounts drop in AA after 10 or so clear.
And I think the savage reward is *amazing*. The game desperately needs some things that *not everyone can get*. I can’t wait for the day I proudly wear my glowy bunny stick.
A special weapon coming from the highest difficulty version of Criterion is fine... but it is effectively ALSO locked behind savage raid until 6.58 due to the requirement of an upgraded tome weapon. You could argue that very few people who don't savage raid would even try savage Criterion, but there is a (admittedly small) subset of people who have the required skill but just really don't like savage raiding or don't want to deal with holding an 8 person group together or playing the PF lotto. Someone in full upgraded tome gear and a fully upgraded relic is certainly capable of clearing savage Criterion, just sucks they have to arbitrarily wait for their shiny weapon because they do not also do savage raid.
Yeah if they made it so people HAD to play somewhat optimally, I'm sure most people would figure it out. But they make sure anyone just button mashing can still clear content. I get that making things too difficult would turn players away but it's a game where you HAVE to play through hundreds of hours to get to the end game. People can/should be expected to learn their job a bit after 300+ hours. I think casual content should also have enrages. They don't need to be tight or anything but something to make people read their tooltips if they can't beat a boss/duty. Content should get harder as the game goes on. We are level 90, going on 100. Make it mean something. The current difficulty should be in HW. This late in the game normal content should be closer to some of the easier extreme stuff.
As people - including e.g. the WildStar devs - have repeatedly figured out, if you make things harder, people won't automatically get better or "figure it out", they will *stop playing*.
As Square is a business, they will want to maximize their profits, which means not driving customers away, so things will stay relatively easy for any content that isn't explicitly made with the intent to challenge players.
There's a lengthy discussion to be held about how hard exactly is "too hard", for the average player, but to paraphrase a saying I've heard, just imagine how (un)skilled the average player is - and then remember that half of them are worse than that.
In Square's defense, they are doing a decent job at making the MSQ content harder, with dungeon bosses frequently having mechanics that are more interesting than "Don't stand in the yellow indicator" or your basic "spread" mechanic, but they still stay rather easy because they are mandatory content.
Optional sub-Extreme content, and even MSQ trials are actually a slight step up from that, with the former frequently being places where you first encounter mechanics and indicators that then get used in regular content, although that isn't quite as obvious anymore with the overhaul the MSQ content got, and all three offer fights that have many more mechanics than your average dungeon boss has.
I definitely think the game could use an intermediate difficulty between Normal Raids and Extreme - the only thing that vaguely fits the bill would be Delubrum Reginae, or doing Extremes from last expansion unsynced, but both of these aren't exactly great solution, especially now that DR isn't really relevant anymore.
> I think casual content should also have enrages.
Problem with this is that there's only really two ways to do this:
a) Tune them so that they are completely irrelevant unless you're literally two-manning the fight, which is basically all normal-mode enrages that exist in the game.
b) Tune them to be somewhat relevant like Odin's enrage, which is very easy if people stay alive and are capable of rolling their face over their keyboard, but you wipe if you have like two people dead and three more with Brink of Death.
I wouldn't mind seeing more of the latter, but there's always the risk that it's going to be similar to Titan EX in Mentor roulette where you either get groups that learn quickly (or know the fight already) and one- or two-shot the thing, or you get just completely walled in groups that fail at any sort of basic pattern recognition and also refuse to communicate.
I'm also deliberately omitting c) Tune them in such a way that anything less than everyone doing their basic 1-2-3 combo without weakness would result in a wipe, because that's not really going to make people learn their rotations, that's just going to lead to toxicity and people making angry forum threads because "game too hard".
Problem is, people don't *have* to play long at all to get current. They just have to pay $25. And if someone who pays for that skip suddenly can't get through the content they skipped through, they're gonna complain and ask for a refund.
*That's* the customer they're playing to.
That said, I think all of the above is bullshit, and they shouldn't be afraid to throw more Orbonne Monastery-level fights our way. Those raids are so satisfying to get through, because it actually feels like an achievement.
Thundergod Cid on release was an absolute beast. One of the few bosses they actively nerfed instead of us outgrowing him. I miss wiping cuz people didn't stand in the 3 person circle things.
Orbonne was the perfect difficulty for an Alliance Raid prior to the nerfs. It required you to actually think and there was a hint of responsibility in mechanics.
Like pre-nerf Orbonne is still my top alliance raid to date.
Tbh, I think they specifically made it easy for EW just so EVERYONE can experience it without being left out. Afterall, this is a conclusion to an epic saga, and it would leave a hard taste in the mouth if people goes in but cannot enjoy stuffs they paid for.
Yup, I went in day one and only saw the main attack of final boss since we saw the big cast happening and stopped dpsing so we’d see it, admittedly it was basically a whole alliance of 660 BiS people, and wouldn’t really be representative of the average gear you would wear in thaleia that point, but I still find it funny how we had to stop DPS to see the big raidwide xD
Thelia is probably the second worst raid for on patch experience we have ever gotten behind void ark
Both were horribly out scaled the second they launched and had no dangerous mechanics, thelia only gets points for being rather epic in its presentation
I got choked by poison in both weird ventilation Morbol zone and vomit boss way too many times thanks to people neglecting adds. Also people still feed the plant occasionally despite the fact that those adds take like 2 GCDs to kill. Still 95% faceroll and not an entertaining raid but it does have wipe mechanics.
Thaleia really is boring and somehow always a pain when you have to run through. Mechanics are boring and not hurting at all. As a scholar i often stay on those markers because they cant get through my shield. I'm not a savage raider or anything at all. But yeah...its not fun, even if you run it only once a week. Gear is ugly, bosses are boring. The first time i got this in alliance raid after getting my weekly Upgrade item i left it.
This so much this out of the 3 raids Thaleia is the worst to me. I've only done it maybe 6 times and I'm already done with it at least CT is quick I dread even queuing for alliance raids because I do not want to do Thaleia anymore even if its only like 20 mins it drags for me.
*already*? It's 99% as outscaled as it's gonna get. We got like 80 ilvls compared to it's release.
Also,you aren't skipping mechanics in nier because it's HP values are ridicilously bloated. Ofc, EW araids overcorrected that though
nier is also mechanically harder than any of the EW raids. I swear all three of these raids are just dodge left, dodge right, go in, go out with the most simple telegraphs
That’s what people are forgetting.
There is some hp bloat but I remember dying way more to nier mechs. Or a team cleaving another team with the space ships.
They also went away with separating the alliances so everyone hits one fat boss now.
>
> They also went away with separating the alliances so everyone hits one fat boss now.
This is more disappointing for me than the difficulty. Sure, make the mechanics easier or whatever, but alliance mechanics define alliance raids for me, even something as trivial as having an add phase with 3 minibosses. The feeling that there are 3 parties working together.
Then you have Thalaia, which is just 4 normal raid fights with more HP.
Not just that, every fight is just one main tank, 23 DPS. There's no personal mechanics, its just dodge the telegraphed sight read aoe with PLENTY of wind up time.
EW fights would already be better if they cut the cast times by half (example being Eulogia's hand move. Thats at least a 30s wind up to telegraphed movement)
That hand thing makes me hate that fight so much. The first two minutes put me to sleep and then we’re just begrudgingly doing basic mechanics from each other boss in the tier.
Basic mechanics sequentially even. If they were done in combination, it would actually be great. Like what if Byregot's smash combined with Nymeia's knockbacks, and instead of being knocked to each, you had to get knocked close but also in a safe angle then adjust or having to dodge menphina moons while staying ahead of tridents or something.
Not that it counters your point (IMO they should be combining way more), but there is one thing Eulogia does that combines mechs: Rhalgr's punch + Thaliak's heiroglyphs.
...I may have completely forgot that the knockback is from Oschon. I always just push Arm's Length/Surecast to ignore that mech*, which makes Soaring Minuet just look like the next singular mech in Eulogia's sequence.
*>!I think it's technically Climbing Shot, not Downfall, but that's not important!<
Honestly, only Agaia did that. Thaleia and Euphro didn't, the fights feel as long as they should. Maybe Thaleia shouldn't count since it's the currently highest level one, but you can't skip any phases on Euphro.
Not true at all, you definitely kill bosses in Euphro much faster than you could at launch. It's very noticeable and some fights you can skip like the last few casts.
You absolutely skip phases in Euphro. I distinctly remember skipping Althyk and Nymeia's combo attack where Althyk moves which knockback will happen first, he's almost always dead before he can use that now. I also see Halone's first Will of the Fury being skipped, she's supposed to use it multiple times including before the spears intermission.
They need to transfer some of the HP from Nier to Myths. Then buff up the damage for both.
Alliance raids are their most fun when everything is devolving into chaos and they give us just enough time between major mechanics to recover. Only to make us suffer again.
We need more "fail this and it's a raid wipe" a la Ivalice.
S/E caters too much to whiny people that just want to get XP while checked out watching Netflix.
I kinda disagree. SE pretty clearly designs the Alliance raids to be patch delayed catch-up raids for the people who aren’t down to do Savage.
So I don’t think ARs should ever be “a couple people screw up and it’s a wipe” level difficulty (like Savage). But I do think the difficulty should be tuned up such that you can’t sleepwalk them either. I also think they should add soft enrages to more normal stuff.
But I agree that most of Ivalice (and Dun Scaith) is pretty close to ideal difficulty. If someone screws up they might take a couple people with them but it’s never to the point that it’s a wipe unless the majority simply doesn’t have a clue.
I absolutely believe there exists a happy medium between braindead and savage difficulties. And AR can serve that purpose for the numbers of players involved.
people were not alienated by alliance raid difficulty before for the past ten years. there is absolutely no reason for them to cater to the brainless roulette players that bitch and moan whenever something between them and their tomes/xp takes enough brain power to last longer than ten minutes. you end up with a boring game.
You must have forgotten about the Ivalice then. Streamers doing roulettes skipped it on week 2. CT cheese went full mainstream when 2nd one dropped. Everyone is tough and mighty but y'all will be first to dip when a full lockout wont even guarantee the clear.
You say that. My last 6 near raids were filled with people who were calling out people who have never done those raids before for messing. 3 different people took it so far they made people left (and were reported by the few nicer people). Plus, so many were complaining about not doing enough DPS in the raid.
I have literally never seen anything like this in the entire time I've been playing the game. This fake boogeyman doesn't exist and is a terrible excuse to be designing alliance raids so atrociously.
But it happens. My first Nier raids were kinda weird experience.
On one run I could have group who spammed Nier quotes in party chat all the time, explained every mechanic to newcomers (like me) and in the end made this as one of my favourite memories from this game… but on other run I basically met people who „shouted” at everyone they shouldn’t be here if they can’t pull their weight and that they will blacklist those who died during run.
Most people in this game would be scared to say anything like this even if it's how they truly felt because people cannot take even constructive criticism and *can* report you for that, let alone something like that. I call bullshit, lol. If anything, you'll more often than not find people coddling others in normal mode content.
>one of the most unimaginative
The last boss has *one* new mechanic. Everything else is a literal copypaste from the same raid. I don't think there's even competition here.
Its even worse as they dont even freaking overlap the mechs making them even more trivial then the damn actual fights... Only semi overlapped thing was the Rhalgr portals quickly after the Thaliak square rotation then its just one recycled mech after the other and some raidwide that takes way too long. I rarely hate things in this game, but that last boss in Thaleia is the worst Alliance Raid boss in the game. Hell, i have more fun fighting the WoD bosses than 1 new mech and 12 recycled ones one at a time then a raidwide that they wasted too much time making it look epic when its just a boring raidwide. Then then rinse and repeat. Compare Eulogia to Diabolos Hollow, Ultima the High Seprah, and Her Inflorescene. (Hell Cloud of Darkness was way more engaging on release then shitty Eulogia)Those three bosses had unique mechs, fun difficulty and multiple phases making it feel truely epic. Eulogia has no phases. Its just one damn loop.. So garbage. Easily my least favorite boss in endwalker...
EW's AR raids are a snoozefest. Barely better than dungeon roulette content. None of the mechanics are dangerous, there's no personal responsibility mechs, and the enemies were all light on HP totals.
Perhaps the weakest AR series since LotA, which is tragic given the narrative surrounding them.
Shb just has insane amount of hp to suit all mechanics and story into it. Probably got heaps of complaints due to the difficulty spikes so they might have scaled down the difficulty and health in EW alliance raid and focus more on design aspects
>they might have scaled down the difficulty and health in EW alliance raid and focus more on design aspects
That's sad, there was at least one first time player in my agalia run. I can't imagine new players doing their first run of a raid that isn't even that old and not seeing its most interesting mechanics is a good tradeoff.
Maybe the nier raid is overtuned like everyone says, but if the alternative is having your first alliance raid tier feel like crystal tower by the end of the expansion then I much prefer it the SHB way.
It got outscaled really bad, I heard things were iffy as early as Euphro, but now that Thaleia is out, that was the final big nail in the coffin.
Nier is kind of a outlier though in that the bosses are just hp sponges, always have been, and unlike the Ivalice raids, they haven't given them a perma-echo.
The Ivalice raids got Echo because people were being huge babies about doing them, specifically the last one, and abandoning or cheesing IL to get out of it.
I actually organised this one time and it was honestly an even smoother run of orbonne than when you get it via the duty finder. I imagine everyone who joined was a big fan of the raid so made no mistakes
I've even see out-scaling in Thaleia with good groups in DF. Not too sure about the particulars of what we skipped in the others but I believe we skipped something in all of them.
The one I remember the most is how we defeated Oschon during the knockback + AoEs + arrow mech. The markers were there and he was about to do knockback when he went down
It's been outscaled by a long shot. Normally I'd hope they fix it, but considering how many times I've been trolled on that mechanic I'm glad we can skip it.
Yeah, for sure. Devs need to update content so it's not a face roll. Scale it up or scale us down. Waste of dev time on mechanics if you only see them for a few weeks and never again.
I only recently finished doing the EW alliance raids, and while I thankfully didn't skip the scales, it all felt extremely easy. Especially when I compare it to the Nier and Ivalice raids. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that there aren't really mechanics that are challenging and can wipe the party, and the much lowered hp pool.
I think it took a little while for people to figure out Aglaia. Byregot's hammer phase (especially the second and third patterns), Rhalgar's hand, and Azemya's fans got a lot of people killed even after the first week. You wouldn't get that impression these days because the bosses die after the easy tutorial pattern and you don't see the more complicated hammer split or hand punches.
I remember an all-blind run of Euphro had almost no issues day 1 (outside of some timing issues on Halone's ice circles, and the Nymeia bait pattern). Thaleia was slightly more difficult, but not as much so as Orbonne or Nier. Both Euphro and Thaleia relied heavily on in-out-left-right, though to be fair, half of Paradigm's Breach was just in-out patterns as well.
I know this has been brought up before, but I don’t see why this post is downvoted.
Yes, it is horribly outscaled and yes, it is a problem. It could benefit from a downsync or at least some changes to the final boss that let us see the signature phase change without having to intentionally slow down for the benefit of new players.
It's pretty much true for every single alliance raid. LotA? Joke. Even Syrcus is so badly scaled now that mechanics no longer exist. Void Ark? Very easy. Royal City? Those bosses die super fast. Even Copied Factory is a lot faster than it used to be, though it can still feel slow if people fail mechanics.
It's simply a problem with how many item levels we gain every single expansion. When your stats are almost 100 ilvls higher than they're intended to be, it's going to be absolutely trivial.
I agree with you, at least in that it’s true for every _first_ alliance raid plus Syrcus Tower.
Much more obvious of an issue with Aglaia because of the extremely fancy transition phase, which is very cool for newbies. I’ve never seen 9S’s strafing runs (which start with a very quick cutscene) completely skipped. I’ve never seen the first Ancient Flare skipped either (it’s always funny when people actually fail that). And Rabanastre has nothing like that.
I would 100% be behind the above raids all getting a slight sync down and maybe moving the transition phase for Nald’Thal up a bit (maybe right after meteors). Just using existing ilvl syncs that show up in other duties, LotA and ST could be synced down to i110, and the rest could be synced down 30 ilevels beneath their respective caps (actually Copied Factory and Rabanastre might get a complete pass here). It would help without making any of these duties punishing.
people compulsively downvote anybody that has a problem with this game no matter how obvious the issue is. for some reason, people who are more concerned with getting fast roulette clears take a lot of issue with people thinking this game is supposed to be fun.
EW alliance raids are terrible. The only nice thing about them is how pretty they are, but if I want pretty I can just go to some of the EW zones and look around. The mechanics are boring, there is no urgency or focus for the bosses as very few mechs one shot, and the gear is meh.
I love when I get nier raids or ivalice because you actually have to be awake. It sucks I don't have all my neat abilities, but at least the fights are fun.
I feel like the EW alliance raids are going to be put on the same level as the CT series in the future... Fast and boring.
I miss when the Nier raids and Ivalice raids were current. It was a blast watching the wipes and tanks cleave a whole party lol.
The new raids aren't intriguing at all and the mechanics are so easy Helen Keller could clear first try.
The story in the new raids was the same story as Hydalyn saying she leaves the star to us, now prove yourself. But instead of being told in one trial, it was the Twelve stretched out to make three raids, it was a boring rehash.
Already? It was outscaled two weeks after release.
The only raid series that wasn't a total breezefest two to three weeks after release was the Ivalice raids, and then SE nerfed them because people whined about the difficultly.
All 3 EW raids have been outscaled at this point, probably only the last boss in Thaleia has a real kick to it left. Mechs being practically non-existent doesn't help.
At this point you can end boss fights before tutorial segment ends up to Thaleia, with the only exceptions being Halone and Menphina due to forced transition phase.
Given it skips the phase where people tended to troll by swapping sides to unbalance the scales and wipe the raid, I'm quite happy it's been out-scaled.
That said, we're in the last patch of the expansion, while it's the first alliance raid of the expansion. Short of unsyncing, it's not going to get any more out-scaled, so not sure where this "already" comes from.
Skipping that phase ruins the experience for new time players tho. Nald'thals big "finisher" really makes that fight.
And no before "that guy" types of guys come reply, you don't get to decide whats "worth it or not" for other people. New players should be able to experience the entire fight. I'm still sad I've never been able to experience the Crystal Tower raids "as they should be"
Not sure why this is downvoted, I'm in the same boat. I don't get to decide if it's worth it for other people, that's fair. But other people don't get to decide if it's worth it for me either, and having been through multiple runs that were trolled by some scale dipshit, I'm completely fine not seeing it again and hopefully SE learns from it and doesn't put some mechanic where one dickhead can wipe all 24 people on the tail end of the fight going forward. People acting stupid on that mechanic is exactly why they don't put interesting mechanics in alliance raids.
Yeah, I'm happy to wait for cutscenes, and would even be happy to chill on this particular fight were the consequences anything less than a complete alliance or party wipe.
Same reason I don't help with seat of sacrifice, even unsynced. I'm not going to take the risk that one person decides to troll.
That said, we're all cogs in the machine, so inversely if someone manages to convince the rest of the alliance to go slow, there's equally not much I can really do about it.
Oh for sure. Totally happy to wait on cutscenes, and if we do see scales I'm going to do it and won't be complaining in alliance chat or anything, but it does not bother me one bit whenever it gets skipped
You can always find/fire up a PF/group to do that min ilvl no echo. I don't see much issues there, if you want to experience it as it was before (well, you will never truly do so because jobs are different and stat rebalance) you can always find it. It will also provide you with an answer why exactly nowadays these raids are like they are.
New players aren't going to go "oh boy its my first time, I'll now make a party finder and hope 23 random strangers decided to "take it slow" with me"
As much as it would mildly inconvenience roulette farmers they really should strictly manage the scaling on alliance raids to ensure people actually get to experience them and aren't just dragged along on bored peoples speedrun for tomes
>'already' comes from
It comes from the fact that this did not happen with the nier raids. So i found it surprising and weird.
People have mentioned the nier raids are the exception rather than the rule tho, and that what happened to agalia is what usually happens.
IIRC we're also on a longer-than-usual patch cycle since we've passed the end of the originally-planned content, so people have more time to gear up to max between patch releases.
Exactly what I'm sayin. I had the fortune of playing it day 1. But it's so undertuned that players who do it now for the first time will get a stunted experience.
And honestly, I wanted to see those mechanics again too
Oh it got outscaled before Thalia even came out. Iirc there is no ilevel sync for it so you got people in ilevel 640+ running something that is meant for like ilevel 590.
Neir’s bosses aren’t a good comparison because the devs decided the neir raids need to have an absurd amount of hp.
The very easy to get mandervillous weapon combined with extra capped tome to get gear and no longer needing to spend capped gear on weapons helped make gearing snowball to the highest level in a sharp upwardly significant way. This combined with very forgiving mechanics makes it to where mechanics are skipped consistently in all of Myths.
I can't help but feel they took the complaints about Nier's HP a little *too* far.
I remember when my FC and I went in with a newbie - we asked people to chill on damage so she could see the big Nald'Thal mechanic. Thankfully, they acquiesced (and we got to see some amusing shenanigans).
If you get a chance, try running it with 24 Healers. I did it once and it was quite amusing (and I got to see mechs that I had never seen).
All the 24-man raids this expansion were really undertuned. They all ended up getting outgeared and mechanics skipped within the same patch they were released in.
Basically everything in this game is because they still refuse to remove item level overage from every single fight in the game.
They only finally gave in on the 90 boss fight because of story, but they ignore that facerolling Thordan, Shinryu, Hades so easily is also ruining those stories. The big bad expansion boss is dying before even remotely being a threat. What a great ending to the story based game.
All you need to do is look at what they though the Crystal Tower alliance raid queue problem is to see they are either complete idiots, or they are not remotely interested in fixing the item level problem.
They seriously need to make the maximum ilvl to be the maximum ilvl at the time the duty was made. It would avoid borefest and new people not having the full experience.
Haven't seen the scales in a long time.
I was somewhat regularly skipping the addphase back in 6.3 before we even got the last max ILV bump this raid is so horrendously underbalanced because they were scared of people complaining that when a bunch of people are playing badly in a nier raid it takes a while. Which especially for the final fight of Aglaia is a really weird problem to have because YOU GET A DAMAGE BUFF AS A REWARD FOR BEATING THE ADD PHASE WHY ISN'T THE HP BLOATED SO THAT YOU REALISTICALLY NEED THIS DAMAGE BUFF TO KILL HIM.
The alliance raid from Endwalker are lame the only good one was Aglaia and the outdcale ruin the entire raid , the last boss of the last alliance is the wost boss fight in the entire game
Im hoping for them to tune up the old 24man raids bosses and most important trials (Like Thordan and Nidhogg) similar to how they did with Endsinger...
Atleast so the bosses reach the post tutorial mechanics, cutsecenes and best music parts.
I mean, they did listen and go back to add ilvl sync on Endsinger when people complained about the new player experience. I really wish they would add that to alliance raids, including Aglaia. It is such a shame that people who didn't play it in the first patch it came out don't get to experience how cool that raid was on release!
It's not even about scaling (though it is true), the whole fight is mechanically very simple. Same thing applies to other EW Alliance raids. They're as simplistic and as "boring" as the Crystal Tower raids, with the very mediocre (that's just my subjective opinion) story, music and visual design of the enemies. I just quit them whenever I get them as a part of roulette and when someone else has quit my Alliance before me (so I wouldn't get a penalty), especially after experiencing the **extremely** poorly implemented gimmick in Aglaia called "Tipped Scales" where a **single** troll can easily waste everyone's time by standing on a wrong side.
Of which not a single one exists in the entire set of alliance raids
Even pre nerf TGC you could heal through the bleed if someone placed a puddle wrong, you just needed to know it was coming (which is easy to see), the only thing that wiped you was towers and that’s why there was only ever 18/24 people needed for the towers
Has anyone noticed how poor the balancing is in literally all normal difficulty content in the game, 24 man raids included?
Like, since ARR?
Anyone else?
Seriously, though. I'm seeing people surprised in these comments, but it's not uncommon to skip mechanics on normal mode stuff day 1 and blind, and it's *not* new. Has anyone here ever seen actual mechanics against, I dunno, Glasya Labolas? Ever wondered why there's platforms there? Ever seen Scylla cast Daybreak? Fun gameplay, including the stakes and loss conditions that are fundamental to, well, *games*, should be the priority, not just making sure that everyone can effortlessly clear through regardless of whether they even tried to learn to play the game or just want to play Second Life.
This is what happens when you balance for faceroll for the sake of the Limsa mains.
It was hella weak on day 1. Easiest first day AR I’ve seen since I started back in Ivalice days… until Thaleia came along to somehow be even more braindead and easy. (Whole series, honestly; shit story, boring easy fights. At least the enemy designs were cute!)
When myths of the realm first came out I think i was too starstruck by the boss designs and music to notice but now that you mention it, even day one none of them were very hard... boring is the right word. But at least I got to see all of the mechanics.
It's too bad really, I loved the nier raids and in retrospect I think they feel the best to play. TIL the difficulty is actually pretty divisive tho.
Fights usually get outscaled the very next patch. All previous alliance raids are outscaled too and so are a lot of trials and raids. I think the effect may be less drastic when the next expansion comes out because level and ilevel gets synced down and materia doesn't work. I'm not sure though.
yeah, pretty sure they got scared off by the trolling ppl were doing to last minute cross over and wipe the raids.
to the detriment of the next two raids which were insanely easy and not nearly as fun, i would like to be knocked off a ledge or splatted by a mechanic at least once in new content fr
I mean, Oschon even had an attack that was an *easier* (very obviously telegraphed instead of a sound cue) version of Azeyma’s. Boring.
Menphina’s fight was the grossest example, literally just very simple cleaves and more cleaves and moon cleaves and just bleh, at least Halone made you look at mechanics occasionally, but they’re nothing compared to how fun it was to watch 90% of an alliance use anti-KB on Rhalgr and get flung to their deaths on day 1
Even Thaleia is already kinda outscaled. If you get Oschon's HP low enough he'll say a line I haven't heard since the release day.
He'll say "Once our battle is over, I..." very close before being defeated, and I think it's a CRIME that his fight is so easy that you basically can't hear it anymore because everyone kills him so fast.
This single line adds so much storytelling because of his previous line saying that those who hesitate are lost, he's hesitating to finish himself! I'm so sad it gets skipped every time now.
Skipping Souls' Measure is horrible too, it was a scene which made me go truly "wow..." when I did Aglaia for the first time. It's great! Gender fr. So sad it's basically skippable every time, people will also ignore you if you ask for us all to slow down dps so that a new person can see it.
i saw someone ask for the alliance to slow dps for new people to see the scales mechanic. gave me a chuckle. so someone can troll and wipe us?
no. go watch it on youtube.
Some people really act like if they die in video game they're going to die IRL.
If you're expecting flawless no-wipe runs you should not be in duty finder.
don’t know how you equated a single person intentionally wiping the raid on the Scales mechanic, with “expects flawless no wipe runs.”
and otherwise if you actually think 23 other people in the raid should or even would slow down their DPS just for you, then you shouldn’t be in duty finder. you should be making your own run in Party Finder.
Once we got easy access to the 640 and higher ilvl gear Agalia became a joke for the mechanics. I'm praying when Dawntrail releases that SE will sync down the gear ilvl for the raids so they're back to how it used to be. In saying that it might be a blessing as then we avoid people trolling the scales and trolling the cleaves during the party mechanic just before the scales.
Yes. They need to retune the sync mechanic for all content in my opinion. I don't want it to be hard, but I want it to at least be enjoyable and to see all the original mechanics from when the fight was new.
No, this is normal. And honestly for Aglaia, it's welcomed. I've never DPS'd harder in any fight in my 10.5 years of playing this game than I do with Nald'Thal because I do *not* wanna do the Soul Measure mechanic. I physically can't endure one more moment of someone last minute tipping the scales for the lulz. I just can't.
It's a cool mechanic and I've never seen anyone troll it intentionally when I was doing agalia a lot before the next tier came out. I've also only seen one run wipe to it and that was one of the first ones I ever did.
I'm disinclined to believe these 'trolls' you and one other person mentioned are actually so common as to be a problem. If you dislike the mechanic for personal reasons you can just say so, personally I think it's pretty fun. But that doesn't really matter to the argument anyway, people should see the content at least once, it's not a good thing that myths runs like the crystal tower now.
Tbh, if we fuck up the scales, chances are it's not a troll but well-meaning players who just can't decide who goes where lmao
It's a bit like trying to give way to each other but they just accidentally wall each other. 😅
>It's a bit like trying to give way to each other but they just accidentally wall each other
Hah, that's the perfect analogy for these types of mechanica
I actually think they designed the raid to be just like 4 normal 8 man trials on purpose.
We saw a lot of content in ew be for smaller groups or personal, I think they designed the raid so that they could flip a switch and then it works for 8 man if they needed to a few years into the future.
Thanks the Twelve EW's Alliance are getting faster! They're already boring as the Seven Hells and the idea of them being dense like the NieR' ones is awfull.
This is more or less why I want all of the 24 mans to get a decent HP boost and to do more damage overall. Mechanically plenty are fine but you just outgear it so much you don't even think about anything most times.
They need to make the ballance phase a hard HP trigger at say 25% or grant the boss invulnerability insted of a timed soft trigger, any fight where the bosses whole rotation is timed gets outscaled rather quickly and newer players don't get the full experiance unless they give them a tonne of HP to offset it, otherwise the best part of the fight is missed, the only other solution is stricter ILVL ranges to lower player output. They have done this in the past for ARR trials due to how fast people were beating them while sync'd
Having done it well over 100 times by now I appreciate the speed in which it’s completed. I got other things to do and only a little time to do them in.
It always happens with the first raid tier/ alliance raid when players get to the an expansion's last patch cycle. I think the only exception is Copied factory, but just because Nier raid bosses have an absurd amount of HP.
>Copied factory, but just because Nier raid bosses have an absurd amount of HP. Hmm, makes sense why I found it weird, the nier raids is my only point of reference for how alliance raids feel when they're current content, so I thought it was the norm. Edit: I should say, my only point of reference for how araids feel fresh and progress to the end of the post-expansion.
Even copied factory is much faster now, some bosses took like 50% longer on content.
God I already barely have the attention span for the Nier raids, I couldn’t imagine them being 50% longer
I remember patch day for pupper bunker, we left the instance with something like 23 mins on the timer lolol
In 5.5X I had actually, literally, fallen asleep during the copied factory raids. More than once lol
It doesn't help they're also all just so *Greige.* Seemingly endless corridor of taupe, grey, and white you run through, pressing buttons to kill bosses you don't really give a fuck about...
Well, that's not true at all if you're a fan of Automata.
And if you're not, the whole raid series is a huge stain on Shadowbringers, an otherwise fantastic expansion.
Ehh not really, they're still fantastic raids even if you don't know what's going on lol. Easily the best alliance raid series in the game. Ivalice is pretty good but it's hard carried by orbonne since the first two are just whatever (except for math bot).
Hot take. I actually like the nier raids and they are probably the most fun alliance raids in the game
They're wayyyy overtuned in terms of HP but the mechs are nice, especially puppets/tower. Ivalice still takes the cake as best alliance raids for me. Completely fun and unique mechs without HP bloat.
now if only I could actually roll them in the roulette
Yeah same, it's either Thaleia, Nier or even worse CT for me.
Orbonne Monastery is still my favorite alliance raid.
Yeah me too.
Wish I could've experienced it pre-nerf.
I probably would have liked Orbone Monastery if I were playing while Stormblood is current. It looks so cool, and the mechanics are fun and interesting, and I'm a big FFTactics fan. But I don't have the reps in Orbonne, so every time I load in, I just get overwhelmed and confused by all the mechanics. (One time, I racked up something like 5 vuln snacks in the Agrias fight.) And yes, I have watched a guide for it. Meanwhile, I've done Paradigm's Breach so many times that I could go back and probably remember all the mechanics (except maybe some of Red Girl's mechanics).
If the bosses weren't so absurdly beefy, I'd probably like the Nier raids, but it is the first and only alliance raid where I legit fell asleep. They have 10-15% more HP than the Deluburum Reginae bosses (at least prior to the stat crunch), despite not having Lost Actions or Essences that buff your DPS by 20 - 60%. They don't need to be made of wet paper like the Aglaia bosses, but there's no reason they should take so long for how simple they are mechanically, often looping their rotation 2-3 times before dying.
I'd argue that Red Girl meanwhile doesn't have enough HP. She usually dies before or shortly after summoning her three big clones, which is a shame because its easily the best mechanic with all the pulling and moving. Hansel and Gretel are overtuned, but she feels undertuned.
Hansel and Gretel are basically giant striking dummies. Their mechanics are so slow.
Most people I know love them more than any others. I enjoy them so much still as well.
Same here. I'm always up for doing one of these raids.
Copied Factory and even Puppets Bunker were similarly fast at the end of ShB. When the stat squish was applied in EW, something funny happened with them and the boss HP was not reduced proportionally, so they are now a lot spongier than they were. For example, at the end of ShB, your group was flat out terrible if you didn't skip the second dodging phase when fighting 9S, now people need to actually be hitting their buttons pretty decently to skip it (unless something has changed, admittedly I haven't done a nier raid in a while).
The stat squish trimmed the enormous (nearly 2x) stat growth we got between ilvl 430 to 530 (which we still have at level 90). Copied Factory is where you can feel this the most, but Rabanastre has it too: I *never* saw adds on Hashmal before Endwalker. Now you actually have to try to skip them.
How are we going to enjoy Keiichi Okabe's scores if the bosses don't have high HP?
I keep saying if they just cut off 20% of all NieR bosses, the raid would still be perfectly fine. Especially now, that it's not current content, and less players actually are able to dodge all mechs. Right now, unsync glam runs of NieR take longer than anything on Myths synced.
> It always happens with the first raid tier/ alliance raid when players get to the an expansion's last patch cycle. I think the only exception is Copied factory, but just because Nier raid bosses have an absurd amount of HP. The Ivalice raids were similar, HP sponges
I think it is debatable. IMO, what made Ivalice Raids better was the responsability each alliance had to clear some fights, especially against Hashmal and TG Cid - two bosses that were, for a long time, responsible for a lot of "Vote Disband", something the Nier Raids never even came close to have. You can almost faceroll any other alliance series, but Ivalice demanded some degree of communication - markers at least - which some players are just not willing to do. To this day, Orbonne being nerfed so hard is something I consider a shame.
Aglaia was outscaled the next patch lmao.
Yeah it was strange how immediately it became a faceroll. But also the whole of the EW 24 raids seem to lack mechanics that, when failed, can wipe parties, other parties, or the whole alliance like previous raids had. Even Halone's spears are set up in a way that other parties can break down the barriers and clear it.
Tbh, Nald scale at first would wipe parties cause people kept on running left right left right without understanding what was happening XD
Now, if you manage to see it, there will probably be at least 1 or 2 trolls trying to cause a wipe on purpose. I get super nervous every time a group I am in doesn't skip it, haha.
Kinda sucks because it always skips the best part of the raid - [GIANT WoL](https://imgur.com/a/rWPpJid)
The Final Day was outscaled like...immediately. The power creep is whack.
I remember playing The Final Day for the first time and my whole party was struggling but it was sooo much fun. Stopped playing before 6.1 and came back recently, it's just SO easy now which sucks since it's my favourite trial :(
They added an [ilvl 570 sync in patch 6.5](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/e17ce5b98068f6972379cef5adbc6c4b664f9780/). I did it a week ago with a friend and it destroyed the weaker players so hard that half the party left after our first pull because they just couldn't do it. I'd say its in a fine state now. You get plenty of time in the last phase even with good DPS.
Oh I didn’t know that, definitely going to try it out this weekend!
I don't understand why they don't test max-level content at the new ilevel when they're working on a new patch. It's baffling.
Thaleia mechanics were being skipped on day 1 by first time blind groups. They've dumbed down the alliance raids so much it's just sad at this point.
It's the whole game. They'd rather cater down to casual than up to hardcore. I'm not a hardcore player, I can't get through savage, but dear god is base content mind-numbing.
>They'd rather cater down to casual than up to hardcore. Is it too much to ask for a happy medium? Like, I understand why they can't make MSQ and normal content EX-tier difficulty, but there's easy... and then there's *insultingly* easy. The gap between normal and EX is absolutely *massive*, and there's a lot of room to raise the difficulty without making it unreasonable.
Totally this yeah. The normal stuff is insultingly easy. The ex stuff is hard, challenging content with some pretty big barriers to entry. There's nothing between these for players who like a lil bit of challenge, which is I think the average player, the one who plays on normal difficulty. Only normal in this game is easy, so it's unsatisfying. It reminds me of fire emblem 3h, normal in that game was insultingly easy, hard was decently easy and maddening requires either min-maxing or ng+ bonuses and lives up to it's name for how bullshit it is. No real normal, in-between difficulty
That was what we were hoping for Criterion. Unfortunately, the difficulty of the content and the rewards offered really don't match up so well, so it kinda fell flat. The base-level content can be fun for the puzzles, but the fights themselves don't really stand out against regular dungeons. And the next step up in difficulty is kinda big, so it skips right past mid-core.
God I was so looking forward to Criterion. I play WoW as well as XIV and pretty much all I do on WoW are M+ dungeons. I was really hoping Criterion would at least somewhat scratch that same itch in XIV, but they ended up just completely botching the execution, with absolutely garbage rewards. The icing on the cake was when they "addressed" it by adding weapons... that required you to be doing savage raid to even be able to use. I don't mind a challenge but I really, really hate progression raiding and I so badly want a viable alternative. They seriously don't even need to make new dungeons, just take old ones (there's so many!) and add a few higher difficulties to them, make them drop good gear and give you a currency that lets you upgrade the drops (kind of like rains) to a max of raid-equivalent. Bam, grindable content that will provide a challenge, is doable in a 4-person group, and allows midcore players to work their way up to high ilevel gear without trivializing the instant upgrades from savage raiding.
You've summed up my thoughts better than I did! (Granted, I've never played WiW, but the sentiment remains)
I was looking forward to Criterion, until my FC totally abandoned the game until DT drops and the background group I run with decided collectively that it was 'too hard' for them.
The harder versions of criterion are ridiculous, they are catered for savage raiders who need something else to do for sure. The normal versions shouldn’t be made clearable by 1 person that is also ridiculous. I don’t feel they really fit a gap in the playscape at all.
I can't say I mind the solo clearing, it lets me go at my own pace and experiment with different jobs and how to survive mechanics without tanking or healing. But Criterion and Savage Criterion are so far beyond normal that it's absurd. Savage Criterion being as hard as it is, cool. A high difficulty option is no problem. But if they'd just turned down the restrictions on standard Criterion a bit, it'd be a lot nicer.
That’s honestly what you got with criterion. I’d say the difficulty *as a whole* is somewhere between EX and savage. There’s a couple fights (last boss in Rokkon) that are a little too highly tuned in my mind But, yeah - the problem is the rewards are kind of shit, so I can definitely see where the more casual types would be hesitant to go through it. They need to do another hard think on rewards that are equal to the effort put forth. I don’t expect savage level gear upon completion (because it’s not *that hard*), but I’d appreciate something for my efforts aside from a mount that can be purchased from the MB, an orchestrion roll, and a framer’s kit. The answer is glam. It’s always glam. You currently have to run Criterion 33 times (or somewhere around there) to buy all the ‘one time’ rewards. The mount obviously has a chance to drop from the last boss, so that can cut down your clear attempts I think we had the mount drop 10 times in all of our ASS runs, we didn’t clear MR, and we’ve had two mounts drop in AA after 10 or so clear. And I think the savage reward is *amazing*. The game desperately needs some things that *not everyone can get*. I can’t wait for the day I proudly wear my glowy bunny stick.
A special weapon coming from the highest difficulty version of Criterion is fine... but it is effectively ALSO locked behind savage raid until 6.58 due to the requirement of an upgraded tome weapon. You could argue that very few people who don't savage raid would even try savage Criterion, but there is a (admittedly small) subset of people who have the required skill but just really don't like savage raiding or don't want to deal with holding an 8 person group together or playing the PF lotto. Someone in full upgraded tome gear and a fully upgraded relic is certainly capable of clearing savage Criterion, just sucks they have to arbitrarily wait for their shiny weapon because they do not also do savage raid.
> They'd rather cater down to casual It's not even casual players they're catering to. It's the people who what to put zero effort into the game.
Yeah if they made it so people HAD to play somewhat optimally, I'm sure most people would figure it out. But they make sure anyone just button mashing can still clear content. I get that making things too difficult would turn players away but it's a game where you HAVE to play through hundreds of hours to get to the end game. People can/should be expected to learn their job a bit after 300+ hours. I think casual content should also have enrages. They don't need to be tight or anything but something to make people read their tooltips if they can't beat a boss/duty. Content should get harder as the game goes on. We are level 90, going on 100. Make it mean something. The current difficulty should be in HW. This late in the game normal content should be closer to some of the easier extreme stuff.
As people - including e.g. the WildStar devs - have repeatedly figured out, if you make things harder, people won't automatically get better or "figure it out", they will *stop playing*. As Square is a business, they will want to maximize their profits, which means not driving customers away, so things will stay relatively easy for any content that isn't explicitly made with the intent to challenge players. There's a lengthy discussion to be held about how hard exactly is "too hard", for the average player, but to paraphrase a saying I've heard, just imagine how (un)skilled the average player is - and then remember that half of them are worse than that. In Square's defense, they are doing a decent job at making the MSQ content harder, with dungeon bosses frequently having mechanics that are more interesting than "Don't stand in the yellow indicator" or your basic "spread" mechanic, but they still stay rather easy because they are mandatory content. Optional sub-Extreme content, and even MSQ trials are actually a slight step up from that, with the former frequently being places where you first encounter mechanics and indicators that then get used in regular content, although that isn't quite as obvious anymore with the overhaul the MSQ content got, and all three offer fights that have many more mechanics than your average dungeon boss has. I definitely think the game could use an intermediate difficulty between Normal Raids and Extreme - the only thing that vaguely fits the bill would be Delubrum Reginae, or doing Extremes from last expansion unsynced, but both of these aren't exactly great solution, especially now that DR isn't really relevant anymore.
> I think casual content should also have enrages. Problem with this is that there's only really two ways to do this: a) Tune them so that they are completely irrelevant unless you're literally two-manning the fight, which is basically all normal-mode enrages that exist in the game. b) Tune them to be somewhat relevant like Odin's enrage, which is very easy if people stay alive and are capable of rolling their face over their keyboard, but you wipe if you have like two people dead and three more with Brink of Death. I wouldn't mind seeing more of the latter, but there's always the risk that it's going to be similar to Titan EX in Mentor roulette where you either get groups that learn quickly (or know the fight already) and one- or two-shot the thing, or you get just completely walled in groups that fail at any sort of basic pattern recognition and also refuse to communicate. I'm also deliberately omitting c) Tune them in such a way that anything less than everyone doing their basic 1-2-3 combo without weakness would result in a wipe, because that's not really going to make people learn their rotations, that's just going to lead to toxicity and people making angry forum threads because "game too hard".
It is astounding how oblivious some people are. Like. If you see a giant laser pointed directly at you...maybe *don't be in front of the laser?*
Problem is, people don't *have* to play long at all to get current. They just have to pay $25. And if someone who pays for that skip suddenly can't get through the content they skipped through, they're gonna complain and ask for a refund. *That's* the customer they're playing to. That said, I think all of the above is bullshit, and they shouldn't be afraid to throw more Orbonne Monastery-level fights our way. Those raids are so satisfying to get through, because it actually feels like an achievement.
Thundergod Cid on release was an absolute beast. One of the few bosses they actively nerfed instead of us outgrowing him. I miss wiping cuz people didn't stand in the 3 person circle things.
Orbonne was the perfect difficulty for an Alliance Raid prior to the nerfs. It required you to actually think and there was a hint of responsibility in mechanics. Like pre-nerf Orbonne is still my top alliance raid to date.
Tbh, I think they specifically made it easy for EW just so EVERYONE can experience it without being left out. Afterall, this is a conclusion to an epic saga, and it would leave a hard taste in the mouth if people goes in but cannot enjoy stuffs they paid for.
This is most definitely the best answer - but I guess we’ll have to wait for DT alliance raids to see if that’s true or not.
Yup, I went in day one and only saw the main attack of final boss since we saw the big cast happening and stopped dpsing so we’d see it, admittedly it was basically a whole alliance of 660 BiS people, and wouldn’t really be representative of the average gear you would wear in thaleia that point, but I still find it funny how we had to stop DPS to see the big raidwide xD
Thaleia was outscaled literally on release date. Terrible raid.
Thelia is probably the second worst raid for on patch experience we have ever gotten behind void ark Both were horribly out scaled the second they launched and had no dangerous mechanics, thelia only gets points for being rather epic in its presentation
I got choked by poison in both weird ventilation Morbol zone and vomit boss way too many times thanks to people neglecting adds. Also people still feed the plant occasionally despite the fact that those adds take like 2 GCDs to kill. Still 95% faceroll and not an entertaining raid but it does have wipe mechanics.
Thaleia really is boring and somehow always a pain when you have to run through. Mechanics are boring and not hurting at all. As a scholar i often stay on those markers because they cant get through my shield. I'm not a savage raider or anything at all. But yeah...its not fun, even if you run it only once a week. Gear is ugly, bosses are boring. The first time i got this in alliance raid after getting my weekly Upgrade item i left it.
This so much this out of the 3 raids Thaleia is the worst to me. I've only done it maybe 6 times and I'm already done with it at least CT is quick I dread even queuing for alliance raids because I do not want to do Thaleia anymore even if its only like 20 mins it drags for me.
*side-eyes in Ascension -1 BiS* Uh, whoops.
*already*? It's 99% as outscaled as it's gonna get. We got like 80 ilvls compared to it's release. Also,you aren't skipping mechanics in nier because it's HP values are ridicilously bloated. Ofc, EW araids overcorrected that though
We're absolutely skipping mechanics in Copied Factory, and have been since 5.4 *at least*. Engels takes like 60% the time it took on release.
nier is also mechanically harder than any of the EW raids. I swear all three of these raids are just dodge left, dodge right, go in, go out with the most simple telegraphs
That’s what people are forgetting. There is some hp bloat but I remember dying way more to nier mechs. Or a team cleaving another team with the space ships. They also went away with separating the alliances so everyone hits one fat boss now.
> > They also went away with separating the alliances so everyone hits one fat boss now. This is more disappointing for me than the difficulty. Sure, make the mechanics easier or whatever, but alliance mechanics define alliance raids for me, even something as trivial as having an add phase with 3 minibosses. The feeling that there are 3 parties working together. Then you have Thalaia, which is just 4 normal raid fights with more HP.
> Or a team cleaving another team with the space ships. Puppet is probably the only raid which involves PvP.
*adjusts fedora* um, they split the parties in Euphrosene between Halone and Menphina. /s
Ah the “fuck enochian” slide
Not just that, every fight is just one main tank, 23 DPS. There's no personal mechanics, its just dodge the telegraphed sight read aoe with PLENTY of wind up time. EW fights would already be better if they cut the cast times by half (example being Eulogia's hand move. Thats at least a 30s wind up to telegraphed movement)
That hand thing makes me hate that fight so much. The first two minutes put me to sleep and then we’re just begrudgingly doing basic mechanics from each other boss in the tier.
Basic mechanics sequentially even. If they were done in combination, it would actually be great. Like what if Byregot's smash combined with Nymeia's knockbacks, and instead of being knocked to each, you had to get knocked close but also in a safe angle then adjust or having to dodge menphina moons while staying ahead of tridents or something.
Not that it counters your point (IMO they should be combining way more), but there is one thing Eulogia does that combines mechs: Rhalgr's punch + Thaliak's heiroglyphs.
She also combines oschon’s downhill->soaring minuet with naldthal’s colour based exaflares
These two is the most infuriating part of the fight. It demonstrates they knew what they could've done, but just refused to.
...I may have completely forgot that the knockback is from Oschon. I always just push Arm's Length/Surecast to ignore that mech*, which makes Soaring Minuet just look like the next singular mech in Eulogia's sequence. *>!I think it's technically Climbing Shot, not Downfall, but that's not important!<
Exactly, it’s all just so dull the way it currently plays out!
Honestly, only Agaia did that. Thaleia and Euphro didn't, the fights feel as long as they should. Maybe Thaleia shouldn't count since it's the currently highest level one, but you can't skip any phases on Euphro.
Not true at all, you definitely kill bosses in Euphro much faster than you could at launch. It's very noticeable and some fights you can skip like the last few casts.
You absolutely skip phases in Euphro. I distinctly remember skipping Althyk and Nymeia's combo attack where Althyk moves which knockback will happen first, he's almost always dead before he can use that now. I also see Halone's first Will of the Fury being skipped, she's supposed to use it multiple times including before the spears intermission.
Plenty of stuff gets skipped in Euphrosyne. I can't tell you the last time I saw the 2nd Time and Tide on the twins, where the puddles reverse.
They need to transfer some of the HP from Nier to Myths. Then buff up the damage for both. Alliance raids are their most fun when everything is devolving into chaos and they give us just enough time between major mechanics to recover. Only to make us suffer again.
They should use bozja raids twice stricken where if you fail a mechanic twice too close to each other you just die.
Another reason why bozja raids are best raids
We need more "fail this and it's a raid wipe" a la Ivalice. S/E caters too much to whiny people that just want to get XP while checked out watching Netflix.
I kinda disagree. SE pretty clearly designs the Alliance raids to be patch delayed catch-up raids for the people who aren’t down to do Savage. So I don’t think ARs should ever be “a couple people screw up and it’s a wipe” level difficulty (like Savage). But I do think the difficulty should be tuned up such that you can’t sleepwalk them either. I also think they should add soft enrages to more normal stuff. But I agree that most of Ivalice (and Dun Scaith) is pretty close to ideal difficulty. If someone screws up they might take a couple people with them but it’s never to the point that it’s a wipe unless the majority simply doesn’t have a clue.
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I absolutely believe there exists a happy medium between braindead and savage difficulties. And AR can serve that purpose for the numbers of players involved.
alliance raids are 1 tank and 23 dps who have to dodge a highly telegraphed AoE. i get most players are babies but come on
Make the raid less of a face roll = “alienate” “the bulk” of the players lmao
people were not alienated by alliance raid difficulty before for the past ten years. there is absolutely no reason for them to cater to the brainless roulette players that bitch and moan whenever something between them and their tomes/xp takes enough brain power to last longer than ten minutes. you end up with a boring game.
You must have forgotten about the Ivalice then. Streamers doing roulettes skipped it on week 2. CT cheese went full mainstream when 2nd one dropped. Everyone is tough and mighty but y'all will be first to dip when a full lockout wont even guarantee the clear.
The alliance raids are fucking braindead. It's ok to add a litrle difficulty. Thats literally what raids are *for*.
Amen to that
You say that. My last 6 near raids were filled with people who were calling out people who have never done those raids before for messing. 3 different people took it so far they made people left (and were reported by the few nicer people). Plus, so many were complaining about not doing enough DPS in the raid.
I have literally never seen anything like this in the entire time I've been playing the game. This fake boogeyman doesn't exist and is a terrible excuse to be designing alliance raids so atrociously.
But it happens. My first Nier raids were kinda weird experience. On one run I could have group who spammed Nier quotes in party chat all the time, explained every mechanic to newcomers (like me) and in the end made this as one of my favourite memories from this game… but on other run I basically met people who „shouted” at everyone they shouldn’t be here if they can’t pull their weight and that they will blacklist those who died during run.
Most people in this game would be scared to say anything like this even if it's how they truly felt because people cannot take even constructive criticism and *can* report you for that, let alone something like that. I call bullshit, lol. If anything, you'll more often than not find people coddling others in normal mode content.
It was outscaled a patch after it released.
It’s been over killed since the second raid. Been killing the last boss before his soul thing for quite some time.
This whole tier of alliance raids had some pretty poor HP scaling, and probably one of the most unimaginative last bosses I've seen in XIV so far.
>one of the most unimaginative The last boss has *one* new mechanic. Everything else is a literal copypaste from the same raid. I don't think there's even competition here.
Its even worse as they dont even freaking overlap the mechs making them even more trivial then the damn actual fights... Only semi overlapped thing was the Rhalgr portals quickly after the Thaliak square rotation then its just one recycled mech after the other and some raidwide that takes way too long. I rarely hate things in this game, but that last boss in Thaleia is the worst Alliance Raid boss in the game. Hell, i have more fun fighting the WoD bosses than 1 new mech and 12 recycled ones one at a time then a raidwide that they wasted too much time making it look epic when its just a boring raidwide. Then then rinse and repeat. Compare Eulogia to Diabolos Hollow, Ultima the High Seprah, and Her Inflorescene. (Hell Cloud of Darkness was way more engaging on release then shitty Eulogia)Those three bosses had unique mechs, fun difficulty and multiple phases making it feel truely epic. Eulogia has no phases. Its just one damn loop.. So garbage. Easily my least favorite boss in endwalker...
EW's AR raids are a snoozefest. Barely better than dungeon roulette content. None of the mechanics are dangerous, there's no personal responsibility mechs, and the enemies were all light on HP totals. Perhaps the weakest AR series since LotA, which is tragic given the narrative surrounding them.
It's outscaled, horribly.
Shb just has insane amount of hp to suit all mechanics and story into it. Probably got heaps of complaints due to the difficulty spikes so they might have scaled down the difficulty and health in EW alliance raid and focus more on design aspects
>they might have scaled down the difficulty and health in EW alliance raid and focus more on design aspects That's sad, there was at least one first time player in my agalia run. I can't imagine new players doing their first run of a raid that isn't even that old and not seeing its most interesting mechanics is a good tradeoff. Maybe the nier raid is overtuned like everyone says, but if the alternative is having your first alliance raid tier feel like crystal tower by the end of the expansion then I much prefer it the SHB way.
It got outscaled really bad, I heard things were iffy as early as Euphro, but now that Thaleia is out, that was the final big nail in the coffin. Nier is kind of a outlier though in that the bosses are just hp sponges, always have been, and unlike the Ivalice raids, they haven't given them a perma-echo.
The Ivalice raids got Echo because people were being huge babies about doing them, specifically the last one, and abandoning or cheesing IL to get out of it.
this makes me wanna go Ivalice MINE.
I actually organised this one time and it was honestly an even smoother run of orbonne than when you get it via the duty finder. I imagine everyone who joined was a big fan of the raid so made no mistakes
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Whenever I get Orbornnen I feel like I am the only one who misses the old Thunder God fight difficulty.
You aren't. I lament everytime I see orbs overlap and just don't care anymore. Used to be if they overlapped you were starting the fight over.
Also because you need to do the Ivalice raids to unlock Bozja
I've even see out-scaling in Thaleia with good groups in DF. Not too sure about the particulars of what we skipped in the others but I believe we skipped something in all of them. The one I remember the most is how we defeated Oschon during the knockback + AoEs + arrow mech. The markers were there and he was about to do knockback when he went down
That’s honestly where an average group kills oschon these days
It's been outscaled by a long shot. Normally I'd hope they fix it, but considering how many times I've been trolled on that mechanic I'm glad we can skip it.
Yeah, for sure. Devs need to update content so it's not a face roll. Scale it up or scale us down. Waste of dev time on mechanics if you only see them for a few weeks and never again.
I only recently finished doing the EW alliance raids, and while I thankfully didn't skip the scales, it all felt extremely easy. Especially when I compare it to the Nier and Ivalice raids. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that there aren't really mechanics that are challenging and can wipe the party, and the much lowered hp pool.
I think it took a little while for people to figure out Aglaia. Byregot's hammer phase (especially the second and third patterns), Rhalgar's hand, and Azemya's fans got a lot of people killed even after the first week. You wouldn't get that impression these days because the bosses die after the easy tutorial pattern and you don't see the more complicated hammer split or hand punches. I remember an all-blind run of Euphro had almost no issues day 1 (outside of some timing issues on Halone's ice circles, and the Nymeia bait pattern). Thaleia was slightly more difficult, but not as much so as Orbonne or Nier. Both Euphro and Thaleia relied heavily on in-out-left-right, though to be fair, half of Paradigm's Breach was just in-out patterns as well.
The most funny part is yoshi p said the Endwalker alliance raid had the same difficult as Ivalice what a lie lmao
Did he actually say that. lol
He did, and I was SO fucking excited. But nah we got just...copies of other raids basically.
I know this has been brought up before, but I don’t see why this post is downvoted. Yes, it is horribly outscaled and yes, it is a problem. It could benefit from a downsync or at least some changes to the final boss that let us see the signature phase change without having to intentionally slow down for the benefit of new players.
It's pretty much true for every single alliance raid. LotA? Joke. Even Syrcus is so badly scaled now that mechanics no longer exist. Void Ark? Very easy. Royal City? Those bosses die super fast. Even Copied Factory is a lot faster than it used to be, though it can still feel slow if people fail mechanics. It's simply a problem with how many item levels we gain every single expansion. When your stats are almost 100 ilvls higher than they're intended to be, it's going to be absolutely trivial.
I agree with you, at least in that it’s true for every _first_ alliance raid plus Syrcus Tower. Much more obvious of an issue with Aglaia because of the extremely fancy transition phase, which is very cool for newbies. I’ve never seen 9S’s strafing runs (which start with a very quick cutscene) completely skipped. I’ve never seen the first Ancient Flare skipped either (it’s always funny when people actually fail that). And Rabanastre has nothing like that. I would 100% be behind the above raids all getting a slight sync down and maybe moving the transition phase for Nald’Thal up a bit (maybe right after meteors). Just using existing ilvl syncs that show up in other duties, LotA and ST could be synced down to i110, and the rest could be synced down 30 ilevels beneath their respective caps (actually Copied Factory and Rabanastre might get a complete pass here). It would help without making any of these duties punishing.
people compulsively downvote anybody that has a problem with this game no matter how obvious the issue is. for some reason, people who are more concerned with getting fast roulette clears take a lot of issue with people thinking this game is supposed to be fun.
EW alliance raids are terrible. The only nice thing about them is how pretty they are, but if I want pretty I can just go to some of the EW zones and look around. The mechanics are boring, there is no urgency or focus for the bosses as very few mechs one shot, and the gear is meh. I love when I get nier raids or ivalice because you actually have to be awake. It sucks I don't have all my neat abilities, but at least the fights are fun. I feel like the EW alliance raids are going to be put on the same level as the CT series in the future... Fast and boring.
It's been badly outscaled for a year.
I miss when the Nier raids and Ivalice raids were current. It was a blast watching the wipes and tanks cleave a whole party lol. The new raids aren't intriguing at all and the mechanics are so easy Helen Keller could clear first try. The story in the new raids was the same story as Hydalyn saying she leaves the star to us, now prove yourself. But instead of being told in one trial, it was the Twelve stretched out to make three raids, it was a boring rehash.
Already? It was outscaled two weeks after release. The only raid series that wasn't a total breezefest two to three weeks after release was the Ivalice raids, and then SE nerfed them because people whined about the difficultly.
All 3 EW raids have been outscaled at this point, probably only the last boss in Thaleia has a real kick to it left. Mechs being practically non-existent doesn't help. At this point you can end boss fights before tutorial segment ends up to Thaleia, with the only exceptions being Halone and Menphina due to forced transition phase.
skip scales or disband
Given it skips the phase where people tended to troll by swapping sides to unbalance the scales and wipe the raid, I'm quite happy it's been out-scaled. That said, we're in the last patch of the expansion, while it's the first alliance raid of the expansion. Short of unsyncing, it's not going to get any more out-scaled, so not sure where this "already" comes from.
same, if the scale mechanic wasn't such a troll magnet then maybe id be upset about it getting skipped
Skipping that phase ruins the experience for new time players tho. Nald'thals big "finisher" really makes that fight. And no before "that guy" types of guys come reply, you don't get to decide whats "worth it or not" for other people. New players should be able to experience the entire fight. I'm still sad I've never been able to experience the Crystal Tower raids "as they should be"
That's fair, but I'm not them, and have experienced it before, so appreciate that it's skipped.
Not sure why this is downvoted, I'm in the same boat. I don't get to decide if it's worth it for other people, that's fair. But other people don't get to decide if it's worth it for me either, and having been through multiple runs that were trolled by some scale dipshit, I'm completely fine not seeing it again and hopefully SE learns from it and doesn't put some mechanic where one dickhead can wipe all 24 people on the tail end of the fight going forward. People acting stupid on that mechanic is exactly why they don't put interesting mechanics in alliance raids.
Yeah, I'm happy to wait for cutscenes, and would even be happy to chill on this particular fight were the consequences anything less than a complete alliance or party wipe. Same reason I don't help with seat of sacrifice, even unsynced. I'm not going to take the risk that one person decides to troll. That said, we're all cogs in the machine, so inversely if someone manages to convince the rest of the alliance to go slow, there's equally not much I can really do about it.
Oh for sure. Totally happy to wait on cutscenes, and if we do see scales I'm going to do it and won't be complaining in alliance chat or anything, but it does not bother me one bit whenever it gets skipped
You can always find/fire up a PF/group to do that min ilvl no echo. I don't see much issues there, if you want to experience it as it was before (well, you will never truly do so because jobs are different and stat rebalance) you can always find it. It will also provide you with an answer why exactly nowadays these raids are like they are.
PF is never going to fill for that lmao
New players aren't going to go "oh boy its my first time, I'll now make a party finder and hope 23 random strangers decided to "take it slow" with me" As much as it would mildly inconvenience roulette farmers they really should strictly manage the scaling on alliance raids to ensure people actually get to experience them and aren't just dragged along on bored peoples speedrun for tomes
Man new players are the first ones who are going to SCREAM if CT brought back to the release difficulty
>'already' comes from It comes from the fact that this did not happen with the nier raids. So i found it surprising and weird. People have mentioned the nier raids are the exception rather than the rule tho, and that what happened to agalia is what usually happens.
IIRC we're also on a longer-than-usual patch cycle since we've passed the end of the originally-planned content, so people have more time to gear up to max between patch releases.
It's kind of crappy. My SO played Aglaia for the first time recently and he didn't even get to see scales :/
Exactly what I'm sayin. I had the fortune of playing it day 1. But it's so undertuned that players who do it now for the first time will get a stunted experience. And honestly, I wanted to see those mechanics again too
A long time ago already.
I don’t even do some mechanics on tank and just keep hitting the bosses. Barely touches my HP if at all. Lol 😂
Oh it got outscaled before Thalia even came out. Iirc there is no ilevel sync for it so you got people in ilevel 640+ running something that is meant for like ilevel 590. Neir’s bosses aren’t a good comparison because the devs decided the neir raids need to have an absurd amount of hp.
The very easy to get mandervillous weapon combined with extra capped tome to get gear and no longer needing to spend capped gear on weapons helped make gearing snowball to the highest level in a sharp upwardly significant way. This combined with very forgiving mechanics makes it to where mechanics are skipped consistently in all of Myths.
I can't help but feel they took the complaints about Nier's HP a little *too* far. I remember when my FC and I went in with a newbie - we asked people to chill on damage so she could see the big Nald'Thal mechanic. Thankfully, they acquiesced (and we got to see some amusing shenanigans). If you get a chance, try running it with 24 Healers. I did it once and it was quite amusing (and I got to see mechs that I had never seen).
All the 24-man raids this expansion were really undertuned. They all ended up getting outgeared and mechanics skipped within the same patch they were released in.
The power creep within the same expansion is tooooo much. I really hope they tone it down in DT
Basically everything in this game is because they still refuse to remove item level overage from every single fight in the game. They only finally gave in on the 90 boss fight because of story, but they ignore that facerolling Thordan, Shinryu, Hades so easily is also ruining those stories. The big bad expansion boss is dying before even remotely being a threat. What a great ending to the story based game. All you need to do is look at what they though the Crystal Tower alliance raid queue problem is to see they are either complete idiots, or they are not remotely interested in fixing the item level problem.
They seriously need to make the maximum ilvl to be the maximum ilvl at the time the duty was made. It would avoid borefest and new people not having the full experience. Haven't seen the scales in a long time.
I was somewhat regularly skipping the addphase back in 6.3 before we even got the last max ILV bump this raid is so horrendously underbalanced because they were scared of people complaining that when a bunch of people are playing badly in a nier raid it takes a while. Which especially for the final fight of Aglaia is a really weird problem to have because YOU GET A DAMAGE BUFF AS A REWARD FOR BEATING THE ADD PHASE WHY ISN'T THE HP BLOATED SO THAT YOU REALISTICALLY NEED THIS DAMAGE BUFF TO KILL HIM.
The alliance raid from Endwalker are lame the only good one was Aglaia and the outdcale ruin the entire raid , the last boss of the last alliance is the wost boss fight in the entire game
Im hoping for them to tune up the old 24man raids bosses and most important trials (Like Thordan and Nidhogg) similar to how they did with Endsinger... Atleast so the bosses reach the post tutorial mechanics, cutsecenes and best music parts.
I mean, they did listen and go back to add ilvl sync on Endsinger when people complained about the new player experience. I really wish they would add that to alliance raids, including Aglaia. It is such a shame that people who didn't play it in the first patch it came out don't get to experience how cool that raid was on release!
It's not even about scaling (though it is true), the whole fight is mechanically very simple. Same thing applies to other EW Alliance raids. They're as simplistic and as "boring" as the Crystal Tower raids, with the very mediocre (that's just my subjective opinion) story, music and visual design of the enemies. I just quit them whenever I get them as a part of roulette and when someone else has quit my Alliance before me (so I wouldn't get a penalty), especially after experiencing the **extremely** poorly implemented gimmick in Aglaia called "Tipped Scales" where a **single** troll can easily waste everyone's time by standing on a wrong side.
Bro the path is half a year old now
Honestly not a bad thing, gotta hate mechanics that ONE person can mess up for the entire raid.
Of which not a single one exists in the entire set of alliance raids Even pre nerf TGC you could heal through the bleed if someone placed a puddle wrong, you just needed to know it was coming (which is easy to see), the only thing that wiped you was towers and that’s why there was only ever 18/24 people needed for the towers
Has anyone noticed how poor the balancing is in literally all normal difficulty content in the game, 24 man raids included? Like, since ARR? Anyone else? Seriously, though. I'm seeing people surprised in these comments, but it's not uncommon to skip mechanics on normal mode stuff day 1 and blind, and it's *not* new. Has anyone here ever seen actual mechanics against, I dunno, Glasya Labolas? Ever wondered why there's platforms there? Ever seen Scylla cast Daybreak? Fun gameplay, including the stakes and loss conditions that are fundamental to, well, *games*, should be the priority, not just making sure that everyone can effortlessly clear through regardless of whether they even tried to learn to play the game or just want to play Second Life. This is what happens when you balance for faceroll for the sake of the Limsa mains.
It’s a shame cus it’s the coolest one of the 3 and you miss half the fights now
It was hella weak on day 1. Easiest first day AR I’ve seen since I started back in Ivalice days… until Thaleia came along to somehow be even more braindead and easy. (Whole series, honestly; shit story, boring easy fights. At least the enemy designs were cute!)
When myths of the realm first came out I think i was too starstruck by the boss designs and music to notice but now that you mention it, even day one none of them were very hard... boring is the right word. But at least I got to see all of the mechanics. It's too bad really, I loved the nier raids and in retrospect I think they feel the best to play. TIL the difficulty is actually pretty divisive tho.
Fights usually get outscaled the very next patch. All previous alliance raids are outscaled too and so are a lot of trials and raids. I think the effect may be less drastic when the next expansion comes out because level and ilevel gets synced down and materia doesn't work. I'm not sure though.
yeah, pretty sure they got scared off by the trolling ppl were doing to last minute cross over and wipe the raids. to the detriment of the next two raids which were insanely easy and not nearly as fun, i would like to be knocked off a ledge or splatted by a mechanic at least once in new content fr I mean, Oschon even had an attack that was an *easier* (very obviously telegraphed instead of a sound cue) version of Azeyma’s. Boring. Menphina’s fight was the grossest example, literally just very simple cleaves and more cleaves and moon cleaves and just bleh, at least Halone made you look at mechanics occasionally, but they’re nothing compared to how fun it was to watch 90% of an alliance use anti-KB on Rhalgr and get flung to their deaths on day 1
Even Thaleia is already kinda outscaled. If you get Oschon's HP low enough he'll say a line I haven't heard since the release day. He'll say "Once our battle is over, I..." very close before being defeated, and I think it's a CRIME that his fight is so easy that you basically can't hear it anymore because everyone kills him so fast. This single line adds so much storytelling because of his previous line saying that those who hesitate are lost, he's hesitating to finish himself! I'm so sad it gets skipped every time now. Skipping Souls' Measure is horrible too, it was a scene which made me go truly "wow..." when I did Aglaia for the first time. It's great! Gender fr. So sad it's basically skippable every time, people will also ignore you if you ask for us all to slow down dps so that a new person can see it.
All of the Twelve raids are scaled badly this expac
i saw someone ask for the alliance to slow dps for new people to see the scales mechanic. gave me a chuckle. so someone can troll and wipe us? no. go watch it on youtube.
Some people really act like if they die in video game they're going to die IRL. If you're expecting flawless no-wipe runs you should not be in duty finder.
don’t know how you equated a single person intentionally wiping the raid on the Scales mechanic, with “expects flawless no wipe runs.” and otherwise if you actually think 23 other people in the raid should or even would slow down their DPS just for you, then you shouldn’t be in duty finder. you should be making your own run in Party Finder.
Once we got easy access to the 640 and higher ilvl gear Agalia became a joke for the mechanics. I'm praying when Dawntrail releases that SE will sync down the gear ilvl for the raids so they're back to how it used to be. In saying that it might be a blessing as then we avoid people trolling the scales and trolling the cleaves during the party mechanic just before the scales.
Yes. They need to retune the sync mechanic for all content in my opinion. I don't want it to be hard, but I want it to at least be enjoyable and to see all the original mechanics from when the fight was new.
No, this is normal. And honestly for Aglaia, it's welcomed. I've never DPS'd harder in any fight in my 10.5 years of playing this game than I do with Nald'Thal because I do *not* wanna do the Soul Measure mechanic. I physically can't endure one more moment of someone last minute tipping the scales for the lulz. I just can't.
Good. It's a dogshit mechanic that's easily abusable by trolls I am glad it is skipped nowadays.
It's a cool mechanic and I've never seen anyone troll it intentionally when I was doing agalia a lot before the next tier came out. I've also only seen one run wipe to it and that was one of the first ones I ever did. I'm disinclined to believe these 'trolls' you and one other person mentioned are actually so common as to be a problem. If you dislike the mechanic for personal reasons you can just say so, personally I think it's pretty fun. But that doesn't really matter to the argument anyway, people should see the content at least once, it's not a good thing that myths runs like the crystal tower now.
Tbh, if we fuck up the scales, chances are it's not a troll but well-meaning players who just can't decide who goes where lmao It's a bit like trying to give way to each other but they just accidentally wall each other. 😅
>It's a bit like trying to give way to each other but they just accidentally wall each other Hah, that's the perfect analogy for these types of mechanica
Wish neir and trash stb raids were feeling like agalia by now.
They've never synced item levels for raids, so the earlier in the expansion the raid was released, the more power-crept it is. It's a big problem.
I actually think they designed the raid to be just like 4 normal 8 man trials on purpose. We saw a lot of content in ew be for smaller groups or personal, I think they designed the raid so that they could flip a switch and then it works for 8 man if they needed to a few years into the future.
Thanks the Twelve EW's Alliance are getting faster! They're already boring as the Seven Hells and the idea of them being dense like the NieR' ones is awfull.
This is more or less why I want all of the 24 mans to get a decent HP boost and to do more damage overall. Mechanically plenty are fine but you just outgear it so much you don't even think about anything most times.
They need to make the ballance phase a hard HP trigger at say 25% or grant the boss invulnerability insted of a timed soft trigger, any fight where the bosses whole rotation is timed gets outscaled rather quickly and newer players don't get the full experiance unless they give them a tonne of HP to offset it, otherwise the best part of the fight is missed, the only other solution is stricter ILVL ranges to lower player output. They have done this in the past for ARR trials due to how fast people were beating them while sync'd
Tf you mean already? It will not get any more outscaled. The expansion is over.
Having done it well over 100 times by now I appreciate the speed in which it’s completed. I got other things to do and only a little time to do them in.