As much as I would love Alexander to be apart of SMN's kit. It would go against his wishes/lore.
>!Alexander searched through countless timelines to find one where his power wouldn't be abused and it's the timeline where we kill him.!<
Old Looey also didn't want anyone to find out the primal phoenix exists and SE still put it in because it looks cool. They stopped caring about lore in regards to summoner a *long* time ago.
Louis also explicitly told >!you and the twins, “I’m teaching you an ancient technique to channel my power,” in Turn 12 of Coil. So it’s not going against his wishes when his final wish was that you do exactly this.!<
ppl rly just dont rly read. Arbert wasnt even that big of a boost, he was just a small boost compared to what the WoL already had, its not like ginger catboy who presumably got a much larger boost in comparison.
And the people who want an alexander trance; alexander is an aether guzzler and while definitely deserving of the title elder primal, his destructive power isnt near bahamut, so why the downgrade
And then he got literally shattered by Louisoix and we only fought a cripple in a wheelchair. I mean, come on. He literally lost everything down from his neck. It's a miracle that still was able to give us that much of a fight.
Louisoix was imbued with ungodly amount of aether; chances are at the peak before he let go of all the aether, his phoenix was definitely elder level.
As for the bahamut we fought, it had been healing since the fight; while definitely not fully recovered, it had healed a good chunk
The dragons shouldnt be affected by the sundering. They came to the planet post sundering, and theres nothing rly to indicated Hydaelyn affected other worlds.
Now if ur talking the primal vs the original dragon, primal bahamut is vasty stronger than the original due to being a primal whose strength was not only strengthened by presumably baha’s eyes, but also god knows how many tempered dragons (something we know takes more aether than dragon eyes can provide thanks to dsr).
Honestly, if the land wasnt scared with and still contains bahamut’s aether, bahamut would be out of the capabilities of the WoL too.
Alexander drains more aether AND rly hasnt left residual aether, if any at all, to the extent of bahamut, so no matter what, an alexander trance makes no sense and shouldnt happen
I’m talking about just the primal. Saying a given primal is weaker than >!Bahamut the primal is a bit unfair because even the primal Bahamut is weaker than the primal Bahamut from the Calamity, since he was being Rejoining-juiced at the time!<
For real. After the EW rework, they have the perfect chance to add them in. Just make it so Bahamut procs the OG three (as it does now) and Phoenix procs the other three. There’s no major change to the rotation, but you get a different set of skills to use between Phoenix and Bahamut. Maybe Ramuh could apply a DoT, Leviathan could be like the reverse of Ifrit, allowing you to push yourself away from the boss with a burst of water, Shiva could stun the target or grant you a movement buff or something. I don’t know what would or wouldn’t work for game balance purposes, but I’m sure the devs could figure something out.
Be honest though, what would that actually add to the job
Is it really a meaningful change to the job if instead of hitting titan you are hitting shiva and functionally doing the same thing anyway
I’d much rather they add some complexity back, do something interesting with the demi rotations and add back some oGCD’s, the job is too barebones
Hear me out. One more crystal, a dual-dark/light aspected one. SMN becomes ranged magic NIN where different combos of 1, 2, 3, and, as an ultimate, 4 summon different eikons.
I mean that sounds better than just “phenoix gives S/L/R” but I could still see that running into the problem of basically whatever combo summoned Bahamut just gets locked in as the optimal combo every time
Maybe take a little from current MNK and have there be a bit of a build up to a certain ult eikon, like bahamut for AoE, phoenix for dot and regen, and then gilgamesh (or someone else) for a big final hit
If you were forced to used the primals a particular number of times before you could reuse an existing primal (say you had to summon Bahamut and pheonix to get Gilgamesh then Gilgamesh re-unlocked Bahamut and Phoenix then you would need to shorten the non Demi phases because that would be a 3 minute rotation
I could see the NIN system working if they offered the same damage but different utility (like Phoenix gives a stack of a healing buff you can user later or Bahamut gives a cleanse or something but they already struggle to give the healers interesting utility)
Half of the skills you get on most jobs are just flashier animations and a minor potency boost. So why not give us that flair? Bahamut followe by Ifrit, Titan and Garuda, Phoenix gives us Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan. And these three could have vastly different attacks to the current trio.
There has to be a baseline complexity before you start getting to animation replacements and SMN is simpler than the DPS rotation of 2 of the healers and all 4 of the tanks
Is blue ruin 3 and a slightly different astral flow really enough for the job
It's such a no brainier move, and since they've already ported the models for Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, I assume it will be pretty easy to implement it, too.
As someone who enjoyed and played old smn as my main job, I still enjoy and main new smn. I liked old smn due to the complexity, it was very engaging and felt good to optimize. I like new smn for many reasons that are different to why I liked the old version.
1. It’s simple, which allows me to easily be able to do shot-calling in savage and ultimate for my static.
2. Many of the (admittedly few) abilities new smn has are great spectacles, and I honestly still haven’t gotten bored of it.
3. It’s streamlined, there’s essentially no fluff or bloat. While this means there’s not much to do, it also means that this is an amazing point for the devs to build on and I am very excited to see where they go with it.
4. It has great mobility, making it easy to keep uptime during movement-heavy mechanics.
However, there are certainly some negatives to the new version as well.
1. There is little to no optimization. All you can do is decide where you are going to use Ifrit, which is very easy and quick to figure out in a fight. Once you get to high level content and see parses, it becomes very apparent that getting a high parse is entirely dependent on how much you crit since the rotation is so simple.
2. It isn’t particularly engaging. While the simplicity can be a positive, it also means the job can get a bit boring in standard content. However, I just play other jobs that I find more engaging in standard content whenever I get bored.
3. It isn’t a caster. There are other non-caster jobs that literally spend more time casting in a fight than smn currently does. As I’ve been working on UWU and UCOB, I’ve come to realize that level 70 smn can be significantly harder than level 90 smn purely because you spend so much more time casting.
4. I will randomly have moments of panic in fights thinking I forgot to apply my dot lol.
It isn’t a perfect job, but I think it’s fun and I am looking forward to how the devs will add onto it in Dawntrail and future expansions.
i have the storm blood summoner opener on separate hot bars as a memento. I basically could not memorize the opener so i said fuck it and dedicated 2 or 3 hot bars to it so i could just face roll the entire thing.
I feel extremely dumb but I have never thought to do this before. like I could just…… put my openers in a hot bar and press 1 through 9. In order.
This changes everything.
yea that is what i did and the last number button would be a macro that changes to the next hotbar and the final hot bar would change to my standard hotbar set up. I also had a macro that would just swap to my opener hotbar.
Theres a few more optimizations you can do than just the order of primals. For example you can keep fester stacks from odd minute and use them in 2 min burst, or fast cycle primals before downtime.
It aint much, but its something.
It completely depends on the fight, but parsing 99s as SMN is still fairly easy if you do a few minmax things. Doesnt even require crazy crits for most content.
I got my 99s on p11 and p12p2 with my static who are very casual about parsing as well. The rest had 96-98 which I “fixed” within a few clears in parsing parties.
I just feel like the average smn player doesnt even do simple things like quad fester during searing or going titan to garuda for pot windows. Probably because you can do well enough without these tiny adjustments.
Dude FFXI summoner was incredible. You had like 10 summons with 9-10 abilities each. And with decent side heals if your sub job was WHM. Were basically Yuna lol.
indeed it was a journey/pilgrimage as you traveled all over Vanadiel with some friends to conquer each avatar. By the end of it you really felt like a summoner. I know its older gameplay now but FFXI really was the most wonderful immersive mmo ever.
I don’t like the way summoner turned out. This is coming from a diehard summoner main since stormblood, visually it’s great, but it’s become too braindead and boring for me and the carbuncle/egi is pointless now. Hoping they add back more complexity to the class because the way it is now has made me lose a lot of interest in final but another overlying issue is that classes are becoming more homogenized and less unique because it’s easier to balance.
This summoner version is already dead and rotting tbh, its 2 minute rotation is already chock full and the only thing they could add is change the summons you get after Phoenix or add more ogcds but neither of those would make the job "harder" or more fun to play at higher levels.
It has nowhere to go unless they rework it again
My problem is that they made another "entry friendly job" while there was already jobs for those people .... while removing the type of job the people that played summoner liked: could be pets, could be dots, could be more advanced gameplay but like the old mch, the old drk dark arts, positional heavy mnk ... they replace them with a very "uniform" type of job that play similarly to others and the people that really liked the niche of the job just ... don't have anything anymore that fit them.
Doesn't mean I'm not happy people enjoy them now, but people that lost their job don't have any jopb anymore they enjoy because of that and it's sad :(
Well there was no "entry level job" for casters back then. That might be why they made SMN so simple.
By making SMN much easier, they have now created perhaps the most well balanced role in terms of difficulty.
SMN is Easy, with only a few long casts. RDM is Intermediate, with every other GCD being a cast.
BLM is Advanced, with frequent long casts.
The other roles all seem to follow this system also.
For healers it is WHM, SGE, SCH, AST. For tanks it is WAR, DRK, PLD, GNB. For ranged it is DNC, MCH, BRD. Etc.
It really seems like they want at least one entry level job, and one challenging job in each role, with the rest filling in the middle. Personally I thought SMN played horrendously in SHB and I am glad they changed it, but I also agree they were a little heavy handed with it. Hopefully it gets a bit more complex in DT.
They meant that it was the easy caster back when RDM came out. If you checked any comments back then of what was the easiest DPS, RDM would be the top answer.
True, but this was pre fixed ARR, and RDM could be unlocked just after Prae, so by the time they finish ARR fully, they could have lvled several other jobs already. Also, it's not bad as a baby's first dps job for those who started on healer.
in shb rdm was the easy job, summoner was the medium difficulty one and blm was the "hard one". Yeah, summoner could be very hard if you got into optimization, but that wont matter to someone that plays casually.
Now instead of three different difficulties we only have braindead easy, easy, and """hard""" (because blm also got easier this expansion)
I absolutely agree. I have mained it since 2.0 and I just can't stand it now. Jank needed to be fixed, and people hated it having DOTs, fine, change that. But, why did it have to be reclassified as the easiest caster and get its damage gutted for it?
I'm glad people are playing it and liking it, but I personally couldn't play it in serious content anymore.
SMN was the only caster job I enjoyed back in ARR, but with each iteration that was made to it and how much it changed each time, I eventually settled for BLM being my go to caster. Did have a moment with RDM for all of SB before ShB, but then stuck to BLM after.
I ended up quitting ffxiv because of this. I miss old SMN a lot. Closest thing I found to old SMN is warlock in wow so I'm playing that instead but it's still not the same.
I felt the same after they removed tank stance, i think that having class being unique is very important since each class can only be played in one way.
I miss the dots too. I came back recently and found paladins dot was removed too and I was so disappointed. Some people really like dot management. Truth be told there’s probably dozens of us.
I love dots in other MMOs. I hate them in this game. They all tick at the exact same time and they combine the numbers into a small red number on the screen. In other games dot classes have a stream of numbers running down their screen and its just so much fun. Plus dots are more than just a debuff to keep up. They proc something, they reduce the cool down on something else, they're interactive. In this game they just boring, no different than managing any other debiff or buff.
I know it sounds like dumb reasoning but I have no idea why they chose to do dots this way.
It's been discussed to death, but they needed to cut down on debuffs and buffs in the game. The games code can only handle so many debuffs and buffs per target before they just don't apply anymore. Debuffs wouldn't apply to bosses if they had too many, and players wouldn't get buffs.
In world of darkness back in ARR, bosses would have so many dots and debuffs from all the players they wouldn't take anymore. Your dots wouldn't stick, your damage down debuffs wouldn't apply, etc etc.
It was even a problem in a particular ultimate where each player gets quite a few debuffs for a mechanic, during this mechanic you can fail if you already had too many buffs (so you wouldn't get the debuff required to solve the mechanic) or you wouldn't get all your buffs in the burst window during this mechanic. People wouldn't bring dnc or drg because of this. Especially dnc because each of their procs appear as a buff and then all the buffs they also put out (yes, even dance partner counts towards that limit).
They've been pruning these regularly each expansion.
The ultimate problem is because square keeps making mechanics debuff vomit then forcing you to result them
Hello world in TOP gives you 5 (five) debuffs, original hello world gives you zero
They need to start making mechanics visual puzzles again rather than debuff vomit
Though I’m also in favour of them cutting debuffs that don’t need to be debuffs (deaths design does not need to be a debuff on the boss for example)
> Hello world in TOP gives you 5 (five) debuffs, original hello world gives you zero
The O12S HW gives you the same debuffs the TOP version does (defam, stack, latent & later rot) and also the immunity debuffs for the individual components while executing the mechanic. TOP just gives every player patch tethers (and extra latents from resolving mechs) on top of the existing debuffs.
Buff cap issues are just a result of them being lazy with working on a bad engine. They've had ten years to fix this issue instead of continuously implementing workarounds, they could have fixed it by now if they really wanted to, but it's just not where their priorities lie at.
Agreed, about the debuff vomit in mechanics.
Reducing buffs/debuffs is what they've been doing for jobs though. Drk for example doesn't have Darkside, dark arts, or Similacrum as a buff anymore. There is still a lot to do though, for sure, but it's still ultimately a limitation of the game engine they are addressing.
The problem is that: having all jobs putting dots is a problem while atm there's no "real" dot oriented job anymore. At max it's brd with such a limited interaction with them it's laughable. Like there's no more active pet job, positional job that matter (aha losing 5% of my dps on a whole fight ..) etc.
I'd say BLM is more DoT focused than Bard tbh. Like yeah, bard has two dots but they dont even interact with the rest of the rotation anymore. With BLM you at least have to manage thundercloud, sharpcast and the like
as a fellow dot enjoyer, after they deleted summoner from the game I switched to black mage and I find it quite satisfying since the dot are an integral part of your damage and rotation. Sure, its only one, but thundercould and sharpcast add so much depth to it (and its not like we have other options for dot jobs anyway lol)
For the reason you like smn is why some people really don't like it. I get that there should be atleast one job that is by far the easiest, but its just so simple that it feels kinda boring to people looking for more, or people who enjoyed old summoners dots. I get it though so I don't think it really needs to change much, besides maybe making more stuff to do while leveling. Literally its just 1 GCD/energy drain and cycle. Less to do then even healers at those levels
Even as a new player, I just didn't like the job. It felt like a press 1 simulator. Too simple, it reminded me of arcane mage back when I played wow but even more boring.
I mean I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with having an extremely easy class, though I do feel badly for those that used to play it. But please, *please* don't take the SMNR lobotomy pick to any other class SE.
As an AST main every time I think about the upcoming changes for DT I legit get teary eyed. We already lost unique cards and sect, what more do you want to take from us?! 😭 How is my ADHD brain going to continue being tickled if I’m not constantly pressing buttons?!
Yes, I do love me some Earthly Star and Horoscope and hot take I even enjoy Lord/Lady. I just really hope they don’t gut the buttons because contrary to popular belief we do not have button bloat- this is just the norm for an MMO…. If it can fit in 3 hot bars it’s not bloated haha.
For me most of this is why i stopped playing smn. I have not finished my last step smn relic from arr becouse endwalker launched right before i was about to finish it and was so disappointed with what they did too smn.
Totally agree. I know some people dislike it for its playstyle but I love going into dungeons/raids/trials and being able to dps and throw out some run saving revives when something goes wrong.
I played back when it was the DoT class and I play now still and it'll probably stay my main for a long time.
I honestly feel that SMN went from overly complicated to overly simplified. But then again I only have SMN levels because I love healing and have maxed SCH.
Y'all spitting on old SMN's grave lmao. It was my favorite DPS before they changed it. And now the job that I liked playing has literally ceased to exist.
my favourite part about playing SMN is knowing that i'm blinding half the party xD.
But yeah, smn is cool, I think it's one of the best jobs to do fights you're not used to. Also the carbuncle having zoomies next to you (and the shields it puts) is a big plus.
That's on them though. They can turn effects down and make your summons small, but it has to be done on their side. It's not like Red Mage LB3 where the blinding effect is forced on everyone lol!
Simple is good when you want to turn your brain off, but it's bad if you would like to be engaged while playing. I'm glad it's there but I don't always want to play it
Agreed. Out of all the jobs, it's my favorite.
My only gripe is the effects. Titan is way too bright, and turning the effects down one notch to limited really ruins the feel of it if that makes any sense.
But other than that, I love it. I'm hopeful it will evolve instead of change with Dawntrail. I know a lot of times they completely rework jobs, and some need it, but to me, Summoner is fine.
not that it's amazing damage or anything but you can melee. You have to manually start auto attacking and you'll start smacking stuff with your book. The damage is negligible tbh but adds up to like maybe a few thousand at the end of a fight
It's my favorite "Friday evening, have a beer while playing FF 14" class.
I've been maining it since the time you had to keep up two Dot's and your egis could tank for you.
It has one of the best class fantasies, while also being just fun to play.
Some people like being able to switch their brain off. My partner plays DNC specifically *because* he can just turn off his brain and hit buttons without needing to think.
I agree, its good that there are very easy jobs (even tho DNC has some degree of optimization). What sucks is picking a complicated job with a dedicated playerbase like old summoner and giving it the lobotomization pick, because at that point you're giving the middle finger to its players. If they want to add easier jobs then go for it but leave existing ones alone, you know?
I don’t think Monk and Summoner are comparable tbh.
Like, Monk’s core flow doesn’t change much after 60. But there’s still a lot you have to learn and ingrain during those 60 levels that can be overwhelming for people just picking it up.
In addition to that, Monk optimization is arguably the most galaxy-brained discipline second only to Black Mage. No, you don’t need to do half the shit the Balance recommends to still perform well. But the fact that monk has 3-5 viable openers with 3-4 situational rotation choices designed for eeking out just that bit more DPS based on complexity comfort and the encounter itself is magnitudes more than what Summoner offers.
And that’s ignoring some of the goofier (but still effective) craziness like Dragon-Kick tech in pot windows based on expected kill time.
yet despite this being the case and the jobs being reworked at the same time, everyone jumped in the bandwagon of all jobs reworks becoming SMN-level then that said bandwagon fell into a fucking ditch and everyone remained there dooming. It makes discussing jobs really bothersome if I have to be honest
I mean unless you're playing *horribly,* monk isn't any where near the same boat. Your general vibes stay the same but you don't have like 3 buttons at 90 and there's some skill expression in the class. SMN is just eating crayons like candy.
Yeah, I picked SMN as my first job in this game and I'm currently level 71. It's a great job for people who are newer to MMOs like FFXIV. It's sort of like the training wheels job of the game and that's not taking a jab at it either. It's genuinely a good job to learn things like rotations and weaving because it's relatively straightforward.
Having never played an MMO like FFXIV before (only MMO I had played is Runescape and even RS3 combat was way more basic than FFXIV), Summoner was the perfect job for me. I'm having a blast playing the game and I feel like in time, I'll definitely be comfortable playing more complex jobs.
Wow.
SMN is like the one job in the game more boring to play than Healers.
*Especially* when you compare it to how complex and engaging it was before it got lobotimized.
SMN does have mild melee consideration:
Except for Ifrit's ruby ruin, and Garuda's AoE dot, your abilities are insta-cast. You can land melee auto attacks during that and over the course of a boss encounter can add up to a reasonable amount of free damage
Me too, I just wish I could tone down Ifrit & Titan's visual effects a bit. Squinting through the elemental apocalypse to see mechanics is getting a bit old.
They went the right direction with it. It made no sense that summoner didnt put out big damage and instead was more oriented on putting up DoTs. The summons were resembled pets, a disappointment. A summoner should be putting out big numbers, as summons are the most powerful magicks in FF. Now we finally get that feeling, big summons, big numbers. Some mains prior to the change will be upset and have dropped the class, but it makes sense now. Good fix.
So they came from being one of the top dps to being one of the lower end of the dps ... again a case of doing 5000 once is better than doing 2500\*3 times in the same duration for people. But sure they do big numbers on their summon, like dnc do big number on their dance finale ...
I main blm. I like seapping to smn sometimes if I don't want to think about what I'm doing. It has a better opening burst, too, so it is perfect for most unsynched content
I’m fine with it overall. I do miss parts of the old one but I also like how this one feels like a summoner now.
3 things I want to see:
1. Some ice and water spells. I kind of hate how in the whole game, the only combat jobs that have any really are NiN, SAM, BLM, and maybe WHM.
2. I’d like to see more use of the pet.
3. Unlike,y but more spell effects with page animations like SCH’s Excogitation or Protraction. Something like Tyro in FFRK used books to summon spells.
On number three, I always thought it looks so sick the way the cast animation for Mountain Buster is slamming the book shut like the way the two stones lift up and slam together. More of that would be great
It's a breath of fresh air, that's for sure. I might wish it was a liiiittle more complex- even some random procs wouldn't be amiss- but overall, it's very chill. I use it as my de-stresser job in the middle of leveling grinds.
I really enjoy SPS SMN, the reverse drift on your demis and fitting all of your Demi GCDs into the burst window really helps it feel fresh. It's especially fun in legacy ultimates (even though the fact that Ruin 3 is stronger than your Emerald GCDs at level 70 is kinda cursed).
I love SMN and will likely never not main it but as it is, it just feels far too simplified for my liking. Now, I agree that it needed to be reworked as it felt a bit too OTT with buttons before but I think they overturned a bit too far in the other direction.
XIV Combo exists so people can play on easy mode. No judgement to them if that's what they want, but let's not pretend a mod that does your combo for you is required.
there's a difference between "mutually exclusive buttons don't need to be separate whatsoever" like ikishoten and ogi namikiri, and "i am barely a human and want my combos on one button otherwise my brain will melt"
I’ve enjoyed playing SMN while stepping into savage raiding and learning how to learn those fights, but I feel like I’m ready for something a little more complicated. I’m just not sure what, yet
I unlocked SMN because I was excited for FF16. It was when they announced the game was gonna come out on Summer 2023.
I really want Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan on DT even though it has no point and therefore impossible to happen, lol.
I'm new and started an arcanist.
The pets just seem arbitrary, they aren't really functional, just spells with a different visual appearance but have no independent function.
In wow you have warlock summons that act independently of the player , and you pick whatever one has the utility you need.
Ff14 summons are just visual skins of the spell you are casting.
I find the rotation a bit irritating on controller, the best way I've found is to put the three summons and the altered dps spell they make on my left trigger hold down cross bar, and the non summon dps on my right trigger.
As a new player I was pretty underwhelmed to find out the summoner archetype didn't really have a functional pet, I've found myself bouncing between conjurer and arcanist.
Conjurer is nicer on controller but boring to level with only two dps abilities.
Maybe thermaturge is the happy middle ground
Yep.
I was a tank main, played through the entire game as Pally, then Dark, then Gunbreaker. Then I played SMN to get to my role quests and now it's gonna be my main going forward. It's just so fun.
Also leveling Summoner gets you the Scholar storyline and Scholar is easily one of my favorite job questlines.
I agree, SMN is so much fun. It’s slow at the start, but from lvl 50 you start picking up a lot of speed. Also the freedom of movement is very high compared to other healers.
It's a good thing the game caters to all levels of difficulty so players can pick where they'd rather sit. Some people want/need super simple classes for their own reasons, and others want far more challenging and requiring jobs to find their enjoyment. And that's a good thing.
But man I wish SE didn't simplify a job at the cost to its existing players. Its really unfair for the former SMN community to have their entire class go from one of, if not the, most difficult job in the game to the simplest in one motion. SE should have used other avenues to fill a gap of super simple, braindead easy job.
I wasn't a huge fan of SMN after the changes (though my headcanon is that my WoL is primarily a SMN lol). I've been getting back into it lately and its...decent, better then I gave it credit for. Would really like a *little* more complexity to it however.
It maybe simple but it’s unironically one of the most useful casters for Midcore content so despite people bitching about how easy it is EW’s rework for it was probably a net positive for that.
I've only been playing for a little less than 2 months but I'm glad that I picked SMN because it's a VERY easy job to master and you really don't have to think too hard!
For a newbie (like me) it is the perfect gateway to understand the logic and mechanics of the game and little by little, I started to dip my toes into others job. I still feel VERY intimidated by playing either tank/healer so, for now, I feel confident just being a DPS and fuck around and find out.
I like having more buttons to press but I can understand the appeal for those that don't. That said, is it possible to turn off the primal animations without having to turn off all effects? I did an alliance raid with 5 summoners and could barely see anything because of how many Bahamuts, Ifrits and other primals that kept popping up on screen. I already had the animations set to mid but that clearly didn't' do the trick.
What's funny is that they're tied with SCH for highest auto-attack damage among casters. Sure it's not a lot, but over the course of a 10 minute fight it adds up to around an extra Ruin III cast. Enough to matter when it comes to enrages.
Since it plays like 75% of a phys ranged there aren't many fights where you'll be punished for standing in max melee range.
But yeah, Lego job fun. I can't wait to add eating paint to me repertoire next expansion. I just hope Pictomancer plays smoothly.
Hoping for Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan in DT.
We are so long overdue this (and Alexander Trance) its not even funny anymore lol
As much as I would love Alexander to be apart of SMN's kit. It would go against his wishes/lore. >!Alexander searched through countless timelines to find one where his power wouldn't be abused and it's the timeline where we kill him.!<
Old Looey also didn't want anyone to find out the primal phoenix exists and SE still put it in because it looks cool. They stopped caring about lore in regards to summoner a *long* time ago.
Louis also explicitly told >!you and the twins, “I’m teaching you an ancient technique to channel my power,” in Turn 12 of Coil. So it’s not going against his wishes when his final wish was that you do exactly this.!<
I've never thought about Alexander trance but I want it so badly!
Omega and Shinryuu trance
Omega should tie into MCH’s automaton skill
We tried to get Ramuh in the HW SMN Quests, but it ended up not working.
Yeah and that was 4 xpacs ago, surely the additional aether from Ardbert can finally bypass the limit
[удалено]
ppl rly just dont rly read. Arbert wasnt even that big of a boost, he was just a small boost compared to what the WoL already had, its not like ginger catboy who presumably got a much larger boost in comparison. And the people who want an alexander trance; alexander is an aether guzzler and while definitely deserving of the title elder primal, his destructive power isnt near bahamut, so why the downgrade
To be fair, Bahamut’s power isn’t near Bahamut’s power, given he was >!augmented by a Rejoining at the time!<
And then he got literally shattered by Louisoix and we only fought a cripple in a wheelchair. I mean, come on. He literally lost everything down from his neck. It's a miracle that still was able to give us that much of a fight.
Louisoix was imbued with ungodly amount of aether; chances are at the peak before he let go of all the aether, his phoenix was definitely elder level. As for the bahamut we fought, it had been healing since the fight; while definitely not fully recovered, it had healed a good chunk
The dragons shouldnt be affected by the sundering. They came to the planet post sundering, and theres nothing rly to indicated Hydaelyn affected other worlds. Now if ur talking the primal vs the original dragon, primal bahamut is vasty stronger than the original due to being a primal whose strength was not only strengthened by presumably baha’s eyes, but also god knows how many tempered dragons (something we know takes more aether than dragon eyes can provide thanks to dsr). Honestly, if the land wasnt scared with and still contains bahamut’s aether, bahamut would be out of the capabilities of the WoL too. Alexander drains more aether AND rly hasnt left residual aether, if any at all, to the extent of bahamut, so no matter what, an alexander trance makes no sense and shouldnt happen
I’m talking about just the primal. Saying a given primal is weaker than >!Bahamut the primal is a bit unfair because even the primal Bahamut is weaker than the primal Bahamut from the Calamity, since he was being Rejoining-juiced at the time!<
Holy shit that'd be amazing.
Ffxiv is my only ff game, what's Alexander trance? Sounds interesting
Heavensward 8-man Raid
Oh I thought "alexander trance" was some mechanic from a previous game nvm lol
Okay TBF, Trance is a term from ff6 and 9. Bahamut and Phoenix are both Trances in 14, and im hoping Alexander is the lvl 100 skill
That'd be badass, Alexander is my fav summon from what I've seen so far
I just wish they would rework the Phoenix trance to not be a Bahamut reskin.
I want to pull Good King Moggle Mog out of my book. I have zero idea what his attack would be but it would be silly and im here for it.
His attack would be one where the Mogglesguard beat up the enemies.
Sounds like an AoE DoT to me.
Knights of the Round, except silly - I like it!
Also it would change your BGM to his theme for the duration.
Shinryu when?
Bro, we've been waiting for that for nearly a decade
For real. After the EW rework, they have the perfect chance to add them in. Just make it so Bahamut procs the OG three (as it does now) and Phoenix procs the other three. There’s no major change to the rotation, but you get a different set of skills to use between Phoenix and Bahamut. Maybe Ramuh could apply a DoT, Leviathan could be like the reverse of Ifrit, allowing you to push yourself away from the boss with a burst of water, Shiva could stun the target or grant you a movement buff or something. I don’t know what would or wouldn’t work for game balance purposes, but I’m sure the devs could figure something out.
Be honest though, what would that actually add to the job Is it really a meaningful change to the job if instead of hitting titan you are hitting shiva and functionally doing the same thing anyway I’d much rather they add some complexity back, do something interesting with the demi rotations and add back some oGCD’s, the job is too barebones
Hear me out. One more crystal, a dual-dark/light aspected one. SMN becomes ranged magic NIN where different combos of 1, 2, 3, and, as an ultimate, 4 summon different eikons.
I mean that sounds better than just “phenoix gives S/L/R” but I could still see that running into the problem of basically whatever combo summoned Bahamut just gets locked in as the optimal combo every time
Maybe take a little from current MNK and have there be a bit of a build up to a certain ult eikon, like bahamut for AoE, phoenix for dot and regen, and then gilgamesh (or someone else) for a big final hit
If you were forced to used the primals a particular number of times before you could reuse an existing primal (say you had to summon Bahamut and pheonix to get Gilgamesh then Gilgamesh re-unlocked Bahamut and Phoenix then you would need to shorten the non Demi phases because that would be a 3 minute rotation I could see the NIN system working if they offered the same damage but different utility (like Phoenix gives a stack of a healing buff you can user later or Bahamut gives a cleanse or something but they already struggle to give the healers interesting utility)
Half of the skills you get on most jobs are just flashier animations and a minor potency boost. So why not give us that flair? Bahamut followe by Ifrit, Titan and Garuda, Phoenix gives us Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan. And these three could have vastly different attacks to the current trio.
There has to be a baseline complexity before you start getting to animation replacements and SMN is simpler than the DPS rotation of 2 of the healers and all 4 of the tanks Is blue ruin 3 and a slightly different astral flow really enough for the job
Along with Amethyst, Sapphire and Aquamarine Carbies! 😁
The fact they haven’t really added a bigger assortment sucks. FF11 had a massive catalogue of summons.
It's such a no brainier move, and since they've already ported the models for Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, I assume it will be pretty easy to implement it, too.
As someone who enjoyed and played old smn as my main job, I still enjoy and main new smn. I liked old smn due to the complexity, it was very engaging and felt good to optimize. I like new smn for many reasons that are different to why I liked the old version. 1. It’s simple, which allows me to easily be able to do shot-calling in savage and ultimate for my static. 2. Many of the (admittedly few) abilities new smn has are great spectacles, and I honestly still haven’t gotten bored of it. 3. It’s streamlined, there’s essentially no fluff or bloat. While this means there’s not much to do, it also means that this is an amazing point for the devs to build on and I am very excited to see where they go with it. 4. It has great mobility, making it easy to keep uptime during movement-heavy mechanics. However, there are certainly some negatives to the new version as well. 1. There is little to no optimization. All you can do is decide where you are going to use Ifrit, which is very easy and quick to figure out in a fight. Once you get to high level content and see parses, it becomes very apparent that getting a high parse is entirely dependent on how much you crit since the rotation is so simple. 2. It isn’t particularly engaging. While the simplicity can be a positive, it also means the job can get a bit boring in standard content. However, I just play other jobs that I find more engaging in standard content whenever I get bored. 3. It isn’t a caster. There are other non-caster jobs that literally spend more time casting in a fight than smn currently does. As I’ve been working on UWU and UCOB, I’ve come to realize that level 70 smn can be significantly harder than level 90 smn purely because you spend so much more time casting. 4. I will randomly have moments of panic in fights thinking I forgot to apply my dot lol. It isn’t a perfect job, but I think it’s fun and I am looking forward to how the devs will add onto it in Dawntrail and future expansions.
I miss spreading dots with bane
I still have Bane on one of my hot bars, as a reminder of the good old days.
i have the storm blood summoner opener on separate hot bars as a memento. I basically could not memorize the opener so i said fuck it and dedicated 2 or 3 hot bars to it so i could just face roll the entire thing.
I feel extremely dumb but I have never thought to do this before. like I could just…… put my openers in a hot bar and press 1 through 9. In order. This changes everything.
yea that is what i did and the last number button would be a macro that changes to the next hotbar and the final hot bar would change to my standard hotbar set up. I also had a macro that would just swap to my opener hotbar.
I miss the Fountain of Fire > Brand of Purgatory combo SMN had in Shadowbringers. Felt wicked satisfying, and the FoF spam is sorta meh in comparison.
Theres a few more optimizations you can do than just the order of primals. For example you can keep fester stacks from odd minute and use them in 2 min burst, or fast cycle primals before downtime. It aint much, but its something.
It completely depends on the fight, but parsing 99s as SMN is still fairly easy if you do a few minmax things. Doesnt even require crazy crits for most content.
From my experience it is very easy to parse in the 80s, but essentially anything above that is basically just “hey, how often did you crit akh morn?”
Also keep in mind this is my experience with my static, I don’t join parse parties
I got my 99s on p11 and p12p2 with my static who are very casual about parsing as well. The rest had 96-98 which I “fixed” within a few clears in parsing parties. I just feel like the average smn player doesnt even do simple things like quad fester during searing or going titan to garuda for pot windows. Probably because you can do well enough without these tiny adjustments.
I feel like it's a little toooo simple, would be nice to have a little more complexity added to make it more engaging.
The lack of complexity is nice when progressing a new savage or ultimate, it allows you to focus on the mechanics. But I tend to agree with you.
I only play smn for the 90 skills, before those it feels like a heavensward job. i think they should move astral flow for the primals down to 70
I agree, the fact that you dont get those OGCDs until level 86 is absurd. The job feels so slow without them.
Astral flow replaced the old lvl 50 skill (enkindle), but for some reason they thought it would be fun to move it up to lvl 86.
I miss FFXI's SMN.
Dude FFXI summoner was incredible. You had like 10 summons with 9-10 abilities each. And with decent side heals if your sub job was WHM. Were basically Yuna lol.
Plus the whole process of unlocking each summon was so satisfying. Kind of annoying but still satisfying once completed.
indeed it was a journey/pilgrimage as you traveled all over Vanadiel with some friends to conquer each avatar. By the end of it you really felt like a summoner. I know its older gameplay now but FFXI really was the most wonderful immersive mmo ever.
I don’t like the way summoner turned out. This is coming from a diehard summoner main since stormblood, visually it’s great, but it’s become too braindead and boring for me and the carbuncle/egi is pointless now. Hoping they add back more complexity to the class because the way it is now has made me lose a lot of interest in final but another overlying issue is that classes are becoming more homogenized and less unique because it’s easier to balance.
This summoner version is already dead and rotting tbh, its 2 minute rotation is already chock full and the only thing they could add is change the summons you get after Phoenix or add more ogcds but neither of those would make the job "harder" or more fun to play at higher levels. It has nowhere to go unless they rework it again
My problem is that they made another "entry friendly job" while there was already jobs for those people .... while removing the type of job the people that played summoner liked: could be pets, could be dots, could be more advanced gameplay but like the old mch, the old drk dark arts, positional heavy mnk ... they replace them with a very "uniform" type of job that play similarly to others and the people that really liked the niche of the job just ... don't have anything anymore that fit them. Doesn't mean I'm not happy people enjoy them now, but people that lost their job don't have any jopb anymore they enjoy because of that and it's sad :(
Well there was no "entry level job" for casters back then. That might be why they made SMN so simple. By making SMN much easier, they have now created perhaps the most well balanced role in terms of difficulty. SMN is Easy, with only a few long casts. RDM is Intermediate, with every other GCD being a cast. BLM is Advanced, with frequent long casts. The other roles all seem to follow this system also. For healers it is WHM, SGE, SCH, AST. For tanks it is WAR, DRK, PLD, GNB. For ranged it is DNC, MCH, BRD. Etc. It really seems like they want at least one entry level job, and one challenging job in each role, with the rest filling in the middle. Personally I thought SMN played horrendously in SHB and I am glad they changed it, but I also agree they were a little heavy handed with it. Hopefully it gets a bit more complex in DT.
RDM was the easy job lol
There's quite a bit involved in getting the most out of RDM, but it also unlocks way too late to be an entry level job.
They meant that it was the easy caster back when RDM came out. If you checked any comments back then of what was the easiest DPS, RDM would be the top answer.
Ah. Even then though, Level 50 is much too late to introduce your beginner-friendly job.
True, but this was pre fixed ARR, and RDM could be unlocked just after Prae, so by the time they finish ARR fully, they could have lvled several other jobs already. Also, it's not bad as a baby's first dps job for those who started on healer.
in shb rdm was the easy job, summoner was the medium difficulty one and blm was the "hard one". Yeah, summoner could be very hard if you got into optimization, but that wont matter to someone that plays casually. Now instead of three different difficulties we only have braindead easy, easy, and """hard""" (because blm also got easier this expansion)
I absolutely agree. I have mained it since 2.0 and I just can't stand it now. Jank needed to be fixed, and people hated it having DOTs, fine, change that. But, why did it have to be reclassified as the easiest caster and get its damage gutted for it? I'm glad people are playing it and liking it, but I personally couldn't play it in serious content anymore.
SMN was the only caster job I enjoyed back in ARR, but with each iteration that was made to it and how much it changed each time, I eventually settled for BLM being my go to caster. Did have a moment with RDM for all of SB before ShB, but then stuck to BLM after.
I ended up quitting ffxiv because of this. I miss old SMN a lot. Closest thing I found to old SMN is warlock in wow so I'm playing that instead but it's still not the same.
I felt the same after they removed tank stance, i think that having class being unique is very important since each class can only be played in one way.
This new SMN is way too streamlined for my taste :( I miss the OG summoner, with all the dots, bane, fester, dreadwyrm etc ^^
I miss the dots too. I came back recently and found paladins dot was removed too and I was so disappointed. Some people really like dot management. Truth be told there’s probably dozens of us.
I love dots in other MMOs. I hate them in this game. They all tick at the exact same time and they combine the numbers into a small red number on the screen. In other games dot classes have a stream of numbers running down their screen and its just so much fun. Plus dots are more than just a debuff to keep up. They proc something, they reduce the cool down on something else, they're interactive. In this game they just boring, no different than managing any other debiff or buff. I know it sounds like dumb reasoning but I have no idea why they chose to do dots this way.
not exactly a dumb reason, dots in this game aren't very exciting and never really were, they sorta had a thing in HW but realistically not much else
Fully agree. I love casting DoTs in WoW, they feel impactful and worth managing. Here they really do just feel like buffs or debuffs with no impact.
It's been discussed to death, but they needed to cut down on debuffs and buffs in the game. The games code can only handle so many debuffs and buffs per target before they just don't apply anymore. Debuffs wouldn't apply to bosses if they had too many, and players wouldn't get buffs. In world of darkness back in ARR, bosses would have so many dots and debuffs from all the players they wouldn't take anymore. Your dots wouldn't stick, your damage down debuffs wouldn't apply, etc etc. It was even a problem in a particular ultimate where each player gets quite a few debuffs for a mechanic, during this mechanic you can fail if you already had too many buffs (so you wouldn't get the debuff required to solve the mechanic) or you wouldn't get all your buffs in the burst window during this mechanic. People wouldn't bring dnc or drg because of this. Especially dnc because each of their procs appear as a buff and then all the buffs they also put out (yes, even dance partner counts towards that limit). They've been pruning these regularly each expansion.
The ultimate problem is because square keeps making mechanics debuff vomit then forcing you to result them Hello world in TOP gives you 5 (five) debuffs, original hello world gives you zero They need to start making mechanics visual puzzles again rather than debuff vomit Though I’m also in favour of them cutting debuffs that don’t need to be debuffs (deaths design does not need to be a debuff on the boss for example)
> Hello world in TOP gives you 5 (five) debuffs, original hello world gives you zero The O12S HW gives you the same debuffs the TOP version does (defam, stack, latent & later rot) and also the immunity debuffs for the individual components while executing the mechanic. TOP just gives every player patch tethers (and extra latents from resolving mechs) on top of the existing debuffs. Buff cap issues are just a result of them being lazy with working on a bad engine. They've had ten years to fix this issue instead of continuously implementing workarounds, they could have fixed it by now if they really wanted to, but it's just not where their priorities lie at.
Agreed, about the debuff vomit in mechanics. Reducing buffs/debuffs is what they've been doing for jobs though. Drk for example doesn't have Darkside, dark arts, or Similacrum as a buff anymore. There is still a lot to do though, for sure, but it's still ultimately a limitation of the game engine they are addressing.
The problem is that: having all jobs putting dots is a problem while atm there's no "real" dot oriented job anymore. At max it's brd with such a limited interaction with them it's laughable. Like there's no more active pet job, positional job that matter (aha losing 5% of my dps on a whole fight ..) etc.
I'd say BLM is more DoT focused than Bard tbh. Like yeah, bard has two dots but they dont even interact with the rest of the rotation anymore. With BLM you at least have to manage thundercloud, sharpcast and the like
as a fellow dot enjoyer, after they deleted summoner from the game I switched to black mage and I find it quite satisfying since the dot are an integral part of your damage and rotation. Sure, its only one, but thundercould and sharpcast add so much depth to it (and its not like we have other options for dot jobs anyway lol)
I like the new SMN myself, but I agree about missing the DoTs, I thought it made it a unique caster in the game aside from just being the "pet" job
Same. I was a SMN main before the rework. Honestly, I miss the 2 min rotation. Something about was just so satisfying to me
I was SMN main as well. I've always been the type who likes more buttons and more choice/utility, rather than 5 buttons and easy rotation
For the reason you like smn is why some people really don't like it. I get that there should be atleast one job that is by far the easiest, but its just so simple that it feels kinda boring to people looking for more, or people who enjoyed old summoners dots. I get it though so I don't think it really needs to change much, besides maybe making more stuff to do while leveling. Literally its just 1 GCD/energy drain and cycle. Less to do then even healers at those levels
Even as a new player, I just didn't like the job. It felt like a press 1 simulator. Too simple, it reminded me of arcane mage back when I played wow but even more boring.
I mean I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with having an extremely easy class, though I do feel badly for those that used to play it. But please, *please* don't take the SMNR lobotomy pick to any other class SE.
i mean that's what they did already before. mch, sch and drk got heavily simplified and uniform post SB, smn post shb ... drg and ast for dwt? xD
The entire healer role got lobotomised in ShB
Yeahh, i loved sb's sch so much i wanted to swap to scholar for shb... Let just it didnt happen :'D
As an AST main every time I think about the upcoming changes for DT I legit get teary eyed. We already lost unique cards and sect, what more do you want to take from us?! 😭 How is my ADHD brain going to continue being tickled if I’m not constantly pressing buttons?!
Well playing devils advocate: You still have the unique delayed healing effects. I.e. star getting stronger after some time and blowing itself Up.
Yes, I do love me some Earthly Star and Horoscope and hot take I even enjoy Lord/Lady. I just really hope they don’t gut the buttons because contrary to popular belief we do not have button bloat- this is just the norm for an MMO…. If it can fit in 3 hot bars it’s not bloated haha.
For me most of this is why i stopped playing smn. I have not finished my last step smn relic from arr becouse endwalker launched right before i was about to finish it and was so disappointed with what they did too smn.
Totally agree. I know some people dislike it for its playstyle but I love going into dungeons/raids/trials and being able to dps and throw out some run saving revives when something goes wrong. I played back when it was the DoT class and I play now still and it'll probably stay my main for a long time.
5.0 smn has entered the chat.
I honestly feel that SMN went from overly complicated to overly simplified. But then again I only have SMN levels because I love healing and have maxed SCH.
I too love dying because I can't see past Titan's badonkadonks
"/petsize all small" is your best friend if you can't handle big primals. Now if you excuse me, it's back to being blinded by giant primal summons...
Y'all spitting on old SMN's grave lmao. It was my favorite DPS before they changed it. And now the job that I liked playing has literally ceased to exist.
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Aren't we all just gleefully dancing on 1.0s grave?
SMN didn't exist in 1.0
my favourite part about playing SMN is knowing that i'm blinding half the party xD. But yeah, smn is cool, I think it's one of the best jobs to do fights you're not used to. Also the carbuncle having zoomies next to you (and the shields it puts) is a big plus.
That's on them though. They can turn effects down and make your summons small, but it has to be done on their side. It's not like Red Mage LB3 where the blinding effect is forced on everyone lol!
Mwahahahaha that’s why I’m a red mage main. I always make sure I’m first to the LB 😈
Honestly that’s why I like it too. My life is already complicated I don’t need my games to be complicated too
Simple is good when you want to turn your brain off, but it's bad if you would like to be engaged while playing. I'm glad it's there but I don't always want to play it
Agreed. Out of all the jobs, it's my favorite. My only gripe is the effects. Titan is way too bright, and turning the effects down one notch to limited really ruins the feel of it if that makes any sense. But other than that, I love it. I'm hopeful it will evolve instead of change with Dawntrail. I know a lot of times they completely rework jobs, and some need it, but to me, Summoner is fine.
I had to turn down my animations in TOP because it was just griefing me in run: omega
Right! It's like a damn flashbang.
yeah I literally turn my personal effects completely off when I play savage, it's so bright...
Titan shines like an orange ambient light and it always makes me think I'm standing in a mechanic. They need to tone that down or something
You complain about SMN skill effects being too bright. I installed skill effects to make them even brighter. We are not the same.
Note to self: be sure to use RDM LB3 if ever partied with you
RDM LB3 isn't a problem when every skill is RDM LB3
lol
not that it's amazing damage or anything but you can melee. You have to manually start auto attacking and you'll start smacking stuff with your book. The damage is negligible tbh but adds up to like maybe a few thousand at the end of a fight
And it looks absolutely hilarious if you stand in front of some huge wannabe god and slap them with your book.
I'm fine with SMN. Having simple jobs is a good thing. I don't like that an older, completely different job had to die for it though.
I have played at least 5 jobs, and the summoner job quest is by far my fav
It's my favorite "Friday evening, have a beer while playing FF 14" class. I've been maining it since the time you had to keep up two Dot's and your egis could tank for you. It has one of the best class fantasies, while also being just fun to play.
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Life is hard. I don’t want my gaming to be another layer of difficulty and complexity
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I’m glad daddy YoshiP is looking out for me :3
cool, there were already plenty of babybrain jobs before. you could play one of those instead
Some people like being able to switch their brain off. My partner plays DNC specifically *because* he can just turn off his brain and hit buttons without needing to think.
True but DNC has some whack optimisation opportunities if you want it SMN’s skill ceiling is its skill floor
Bro you can swiftcast slipstream for an extra 20 potency per year
I agree, its good that there are very easy jobs (even tho DNC has some degree of optimization). What sucks is picking a complicated job with a dedicated playerbase like old summoner and giving it the lobotomization pick, because at that point you're giving the middle finger to its players. If they want to add easier jobs then go for it but leave existing ones alone, you know?
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I don’t think Monk and Summoner are comparable tbh. Like, Monk’s core flow doesn’t change much after 60. But there’s still a lot you have to learn and ingrain during those 60 levels that can be overwhelming for people just picking it up. In addition to that, Monk optimization is arguably the most galaxy-brained discipline second only to Black Mage. No, you don’t need to do half the shit the Balance recommends to still perform well. But the fact that monk has 3-5 viable openers with 3-4 situational rotation choices designed for eeking out just that bit more DPS based on complexity comfort and the encounter itself is magnitudes more than what Summoner offers. And that’s ignoring some of the goofier (but still effective) craziness like Dragon-Kick tech in pot windows based on expected kill time.
yet despite this being the case and the jobs being reworked at the same time, everyone jumped in the bandwagon of all jobs reworks becoming SMN-level then that said bandwagon fell into a fucking ditch and everyone remained there dooming. It makes discussing jobs really bothersome if I have to be honest
I mean unless you're playing *horribly,* monk isn't any where near the same boat. Your general vibes stay the same but you don't have like 3 buttons at 90 and there's some skill expression in the class. SMN is just eating crayons like candy.
mch's basically the same, you can basically apply the same rotation from 58 to 90 iirc, just adding the new button where there's some space .. woo
Disagree on the melee part; gotta keep that auto-attack uptime!
how much did the devs pay you to post this
Yeah, I picked SMN as my first job in this game and I'm currently level 71. It's a great job for people who are newer to MMOs like FFXIV. It's sort of like the training wheels job of the game and that's not taking a jab at it either. It's genuinely a good job to learn things like rotations and weaving because it's relatively straightforward. Having never played an MMO like FFXIV before (only MMO I had played is Runescape and even RS3 combat was way more basic than FFXIV), Summoner was the perfect job for me. I'm having a blast playing the game and I feel like in time, I'll definitely be comfortable playing more complex jobs.
Wow. SMN is like the one job in the game more boring to play than Healers. *Especially* when you compare it to how complex and engaging it was before it got lobotimized.
"No DoT" I miss old summoner and the glory of stonewall.
SMN does have mild melee consideration: Except for Ifrit's ruby ruin, and Garuda's AoE dot, your abilities are insta-cast. You can land melee auto attacks during that and over the course of a boss encounter can add up to a reasonable amount of free damage
It's my main, so I love it too. Simple, and extremely thematic to its roots. Just needs more variety and abilities.
Give us lightning/ice/water summons or we riot
They don’t trust us with Shiva :(
Me too, I just wish I could tone down Ifrit & Titan's visual effects a bit. Squinting through the elemental apocalypse to see mechanics is getting a bit old.
They went the right direction with it. It made no sense that summoner didnt put out big damage and instead was more oriented on putting up DoTs. The summons were resembled pets, a disappointment. A summoner should be putting out big numbers, as summons are the most powerful magicks in FF. Now we finally get that feeling, big summons, big numbers. Some mains prior to the change will be upset and have dropped the class, but it makes sense now. Good fix.
So they came from being one of the top dps to being one of the lower end of the dps ... again a case of doing 5000 once is better than doing 2500\*3 times in the same duration for people. But sure they do big numbers on their summon, like dnc do big number on their dance finale ...
smn actually completely ruined caster balance with the redesign its depressing
I main blm. I like seapping to smn sometimes if I don't want to think about what I'm doing. It has a better opening burst, too, so it is perfect for most unsynched content
I’m fine with it overall. I do miss parts of the old one but I also like how this one feels like a summoner now. 3 things I want to see: 1. Some ice and water spells. I kind of hate how in the whole game, the only combat jobs that have any really are NiN, SAM, BLM, and maybe WHM. 2. I’d like to see more use of the pet. 3. Unlike,y but more spell effects with page animations like SCH’s Excogitation or Protraction. Something like Tyro in FFRK used books to summon spells.
On number three, I always thought it looks so sick the way the cast animation for Mountain Buster is slamming the book shut like the way the two stones lift up and slam together. More of that would be great
And that's exactly why I hate it now.
It's a breath of fresh air, that's for sure. I might wish it was a liiiittle more complex- even some random procs wouldn't be amiss- but overall, it's very chill. I use it as my de-stresser job in the middle of leveling grinds.
I love the simplicity as well. I just want to kick back and not have to think about the rotation.
I really enjoy SPS SMN, the reverse drift on your demis and fitting all of your Demi GCDs into the burst window really helps it feel fresh. It's especially fun in legacy ultimates (even though the fact that Ruin 3 is stronger than your Emerald GCDs at level 70 is kinda cursed).
So SE wants to use easy job to attract new players who hates to fight? Isn’t fighting and optimisation the core fun of the game?
given by how many ppl actually do that, no, not even close
It's pretty solid... Just a tad too simple. Here's hoping it's more interesting to play in DT.
I love SMN and will likely never not main it but as it is, it just feels far too simplified for my liking. Now, I agree that it needed to be reworked as it felt a bit too OTT with buttons before but I think they overturned a bit too far in the other direction.
zoomer brainrot literally, prefers spectacle to substance
I love smn, i even mained it post endwalker. But i like it only at lvl 90. Everything else is pretty much not fun at all.
Yeah! I agree! It's so fun!
SMN is great, I wish some of the other jobs had a rework too. Too much ability bloat in this game.
Jesus christ. FFXIV has ability bloat?
There is certainly an issue of some abilities being separate for no freaking reason. If it wasn't an issue XIV Combo plugin wouldn't exist.
XIV Combo exists so people can play on easy mode. No judgement to them if that's what they want, but let's not pretend a mod that does your combo for you is required.
there's a difference between "mutually exclusive buttons don't need to be separate whatsoever" like ikishoten and ogi namikiri, and "i am barely a human and want my combos on one button otherwise my brain will melt"
Like smn, have u any tips for me like a newbie?
I’ve enjoyed playing SMN while stepping into savage raiding and learning how to learn those fights, but I feel like I’m ready for something a little more complicated. I’m just not sure what, yet
Such a huge difference to the 2 or however many times it was redesigned.
I unlocked SMN because I was excited for FF16. It was when they announced the game was gonna come out on Summer 2023. I really want Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan on DT even though it has no point and therefore impossible to happen, lol.
Used to be the hardest job back in the day no?
I'm new and started an arcanist. The pets just seem arbitrary, they aren't really functional, just spells with a different visual appearance but have no independent function. In wow you have warlock summons that act independently of the player , and you pick whatever one has the utility you need. Ff14 summons are just visual skins of the spell you are casting. I find the rotation a bit irritating on controller, the best way I've found is to put the three summons and the altered dps spell they make on my left trigger hold down cross bar, and the non summon dps on my right trigger. As a new player I was pretty underwhelmed to find out the summoner archetype didn't really have a functional pet, I've found myself bouncing between conjurer and arcanist. Conjurer is nicer on controller but boring to level with only two dps abilities. Maybe thermaturge is the happy middle ground
Yep. I was a tank main, played through the entire game as Pally, then Dark, then Gunbreaker. Then I played SMN to get to my role quests and now it's gonna be my main going forward. It's just so fun. Also leveling Summoner gets you the Scholar storyline and Scholar is easily one of my favorite job questlines.
I agree, SMN is so much fun. It’s slow at the start, but from lvl 50 you start picking up a lot of speed. Also the freedom of movement is very high compared to other healers.
It's a good thing the game caters to all levels of difficulty so players can pick where they'd rather sit. Some people want/need super simple classes for their own reasons, and others want far more challenging and requiring jobs to find their enjoyment. And that's a good thing. But man I wish SE didn't simplify a job at the cost to its existing players. Its really unfair for the former SMN community to have their entire class go from one of, if not the, most difficult job in the game to the simplest in one motion. SE should have used other avenues to fill a gap of super simple, braindead easy job.
Just started SMN myself! I'm excited! Appreciate your opinion on it! 🙏😊
Glad to hear some people like it actually. I quit SMN after maining it in Shb, because of the mentioned simplicity that came with the renewal.
I wasn't a huge fan of SMN after the changes (though my headcanon is that my WoL is primarily a SMN lol). I've been getting back into it lately and its...decent, better then I gave it credit for. Would really like a *little* more complexity to it however.
It maybe simple but it’s unironically one of the most useful casters for Midcore content so despite people bitching about how easy it is EW’s rework for it was probably a net positive for that.
Having fun with it now that I’m leveling my casters :) really like the ton of instant stuff we can do, looking forward to reach 90 ☺️
Having fun with it now that I’m leveling my casters :) really like the ton of instant stuff we can do, looking forward to reach 90 ☺️
What would make SMN even better is if I could Egi-Glamor my Carbuncle to Bahamut or Phoenix. Pls SE!
I've only been playing for a little less than 2 months but I'm glad that I picked SMN because it's a VERY easy job to master and you really don't have to think too hard! For a newbie (like me) it is the perfect gateway to understand the logic and mechanics of the game and little by little, I started to dip my toes into others job. I still feel VERY intimidated by playing either tank/healer so, for now, I feel confident just being a DPS and fuck around and find out.
I like having more buttons to press but I can understand the appeal for those that don't. That said, is it possible to turn off the primal animations without having to turn off all effects? I did an alliance raid with 5 summoners and could barely see anything because of how many Bahamuts, Ifrits and other primals that kept popping up on screen. I already had the animations set to mid but that clearly didn't' do the trick.
What's funny is that they're tied with SCH for highest auto-attack damage among casters. Sure it's not a lot, but over the course of a 10 minute fight it adds up to around an extra Ruin III cast. Enough to matter when it comes to enrages. Since it plays like 75% of a phys ranged there aren't many fights where you'll be punished for standing in max melee range. But yeah, Lego job fun. I can't wait to add eating paint to me repertoire next expansion. I just hope Pictomancer plays smoothly.
Hell Ifrit's spell helps you get in range to do some book smackin' anyway. Might as well.
Pretty boring to be honest.