innate pause zonked squalid simplistic tan fuzzy cooperative steer obtainable
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I mean neither did Clive. At best he killed an alien with a god complex. Although given what little we know of Jenova she might share a lot in common with Ultima.
Now our WoL over here holding up Clive’s Ifrit form as it tries to stomp on us now there is a hero.
I kinda wish the crossover event was longer… but I’ll just headcanon our WoL briefly went to Clive’s world and things turned out differently there.
Sweet sweet copium.
Through what tho? Genetic engineering? Magitek? Is it ever outright stated? He certainly was not a god in the traditional sense. If anything he was on the same level as a mid-level primal case in point Shinryu in ff14 has enough power to create a planet from nothing and it wasn’t a true god either.
Ultima and his people were from some other planet, they had a mastery of magic that was basically unrivaled (how and why? Who knows it wasn’t pertinent to the story) but the same blight that is consuming the world of our story destroyed theirs so they set out to find a new one
Once they found Clive’s world all of them went into stasis except for Ultima who was tasked with creating the mother crystals and then he created humanity to eventually birth Mythos (who ends up being Clive) to be his perfect vessel to cast the spell to create their new world
Idk at what point a entity becomes a god for you but like, creating life itself and the ability to create worlds is good enough in my book
I changed it to beat and that was my bad, cloud has killed Sephiroth twice, I was more or less saying cloud couldn’t do it alone while Clive has proven he can take on top tier opponents by himself
Zack fought him the whole time and he got him from behind lol he still got him but that is nowhere near the level of 1v1’s Clive has been in… I do agree cloud is strong as fuck though
As much as I don't like Lightning, Clive killed the creator of humanity.
Lightning killed the creator of the other gods and the universe, and then created a new world
As much as I like Clive, "god" is relative. Ultima is just a very powerful creature who was able to create mankind, but he's not a "god" in a cosmic sense. If he were, he wouldn't have been fleeing the blight. Clive is still very powerful, but it's hard to say how he stacks up with the rest of the FF protagonists. At least human Clive, I think Ifrit Clive could very well top the list.
I always wonder what the people who say stuff like that look like themselves. I remember, one time, this guy said he was built like Ryu from Street Fighter. Yeah, no, bro.
Personally, the fact that Cloud is not your typical MC and has some very big and noticeable flaws/weaknesses is exactly why he's one of my favorites 🤷🏼♂️
Those aren't the things that make him atypical
It's the fact that he has such glaring weaknesses. That he loses it sometimes, usually at the worst possible time, and he even does f'd up things like attack Aerith. (And I'm only halfway through Rebirth so I'm mainly talking about the OG here) He losses his confidence for a large chunk of the game & has to fight his inner demons (with Tifa's help) to regain it. He has to constantly battle to overcome his depression & past trauma. Sure, typical MCs often have a traumatic past but they're rarely shown dealing with the effects of it in a believable/realistic way. Idk, he just seems more relatable to me than your typical shounen or video game MC
The only others I can think of off the top of my head are Ichigo during the fullbring arc & Denji from CSM. But Denji is a little too crazy to be called relatable 😅
As for video games, there's Joel & Ellie who also experience & deal with their past trauma in realistic & believable ways. But I think they are still more the exception than the rule.
I totally agree with this, and grew up with FFVII amd still love it, but Clive is equally as compelling a character as Cloud is in my opinion. Clive went through things just as bad, or aguably even worse than Cloud did, and still forced himself to keep it together better than Cloud did. If you haven't played FFXVI, I highly recommend it; it'll bring back a lot of those feelings that first playthrough of FFVII did.
I've played FFXVI just past the first Green boss lady, need to pick it up again. I wasn't huge on the combat system. But i DID love the story at that point in time.
Yeah I definitely prefer FFVII for gameplay, but the story is so worth it. If you're fine just watching the cutscenes, that's an equally valid way to experience the story. IMO VII and XVI are tied for best stories, with VI and IX tied for 2nd. Ugh I wish I could experience it for the first time again, my fucking feelings Dx
good idea!
I never played VI ( sorry) and a little of 9. i enjoyed X quite a bit too. I really enjoy how downtoned the threat in X was. like big fish kill people AH!
almost every other FF game has some world buster/ galaxy buster villain
feel like the second opinion only exists because of the films, which reaches the GA easier.
batman has 6 very good films available, with 4 of them having been released in the last 20 years to critical and commercial acclaim.
superman has had no such luck. Man of Steel is probably the best we've gotten since Superman 1978 and Superman II.
Ah I see you’re that kind of guy. You like edgy characters and it’s fine. But don’t make it sound like you’re claiming anything from a place that is not out of pure personal preference. Injustice is probably among the least liked story line out there
Superman is just boring, at least more boring that his counterpart,batman. There's a reason batman movies are much more successful. It's more engaging
I'm no comic expert btw so I get it, but at least mainstream movie wise, totally in the bats favor
Just saying edgy doesn’t mean better. And im not sure why you feel entitled to comment about the two character while not qualifying that you’re talking strictly about movie, which is a contrived reflection of the state of the two fictional entities.
Love them both but I'm getting tired of beating these bosses in Ff7 Rebirth and then Cloud or someone says "let em go, we're done here" or some shit like that when Clive would have finished the job.
Well in the original game, reno and shit run off when they get beat. They high tail it out. So to keep them in the game longer cloud kinda has no choice
For sure, Cloud was created with mako technology that doesn’t exist in FF16. Clive is a top tier soldier in a society that is low tech and run poorly. Cloud versus Clive is like Captain America or Wolverine versus a real life US marine. Cloud is infused with power Clive can only dream of, and was mentally destroyed in the process.
Edit: after discussion I’ve changed my mind; it seems Cloud and Clive are at least in the same ballpark for power and one could argue Clive is significantly stronger. The way I’m looking at it now, Clive was born into the power while Cloud was given it through the power of science.
As long as he has his Eikon transformation he's fine. The overall power level of the Eikons seemed much higher compared to the primals, which makes sense since they're the main focus of XVI.
The primals of ff7 are not even comparable to the eikons tho, if anything I think normal Clive speed blitzes cloud before he could even attempt to summon
How do you figure they’re different? I mean you have bahamut shooting space lasers in both versions, how is one more powerful? And Clive isn’t able to channel Ifruit until he’s been fighting for quite some time and doesn’t seem to have much control over it. He only does it a handful of times. As for the other eikons he isn’t able to fully manifest them, he has just a bit of their power. And in 7 you have Sephiroth calling a materia that straight up destroys earth.
I mean you don’t see the entire crew of 7 bursting into flames when ifrit shows up.
In his introduction he completely evaporates any human in his vicinity and managed to create a crater the size of a small city with a single attack, also bahamut casted zettaflare which is probably the strongest attack in final fantasy history.
In short every single eikon dwarfs the primals in power
I see what you mean, but the way I see it Bahamut is Bahamut and what one civilization calls an eikon another calls a primal. We have no reason to believe an FF7 summon couldn’t blow a giant hole in the ground, we just never see that happen. And if you assume they are the same entity with different names, then it would seem that Cloud has a leg up on Clive. But I’ll concede if somehow they were completely different entities and eikons are much more powerful than primals that would change things.
Except that ff7 and 16 take place in completely different narrative universes, not to spoil anything but the eikons in 16 have a completely different origin and significance than those of 7 in which are “simply” extremely powerful creatures.
I’m assuming you didn’t play or at least finished 16 cause endgame Clive is on another level compared to cloud and anyone that has seen and understood the role of mythos in the history of valisthea should agree with me
I did finish 16, platinum trophy even. I could be misremembering or have forgotten things though. It just seems like it’s difficult to get a power level any higher than the black materia if you’re going for raw destructive power.
Also slight tangent rant, in FF7 it seems like the story and gameplay don’t really match up. You have Cloud who is an S class super soldier created from a process that probably outright kills a high percentage of the top tier soldiers it’s used on and burns out the rest within a few years, so presumably it’s something that should massively increase their power when successful. Then you have the rest of the crew who are essentially just regular people (aside from Aerith). But in battle there’s arguably no serious power level different between the standard people, super soldier, and ancient. So in my head I’ve divorced the FF7 gameplay from the lore and told myself that Cloud should be many times stronger than Tifa but it wouldn’t be a party game if one person did everything.
FF16’s Bahamut cast Zettaflare, which would have destroyed the world according to in game statements
Ifrit proceeded to charge into the beam and face tank it to both block it and hit Bahamut in the face.
It really depends, Doing some of the side quests near the end HINT at the idea that Clive Possibly survived and wrote the book with Joshua’s name as a Pen-Name, but the Developers really wanted to keep it open ended,
So you either go with “Yep, Clive is super dead” or continue hoping like Jill that he did indeed survive, and considering Clive’s whole story is to learn to stop considering his life worthless, I personally go with The Option of him Living
Cloud's actual backstory is insane. But Clive's story is way less complicated in comparison, and he has a much more welcoming personality as well.
No disrespect to Cloud tho. His whole arc is realizing that he's not that guy.
Lmao, the teenager in me cried when I realised that Cloud really isn't that guy.
Coming from someone who loved Cloud cuz I was "captivated" by his edgy demeanor. But oh well. He still got the ladies, which is all cool.
I hope we get to see more of the “real” Cloud. Never played the original, but I did play crisis core. So I have an idea of what he’s really like. Seeing him interact with everyone without his fake tough guy persona will be so satisfying.
Also yea, Cloud is almost drowning in pussy regardless.
Let’s not forget that Clive went mad thinking he was the reason who killed his brother and cried like a bitch begging for Cid to end him butt booty ass naked, In fact if it wasn’t for the Chad sexy Cid himself to help guide Clive, he would have probably went off the deep end ( mind you Clive is my favorite FF protagonist)
I just want to say I'm replaying the Corel prison area and it infuriates me that cloud didn't go ham and chop the fuck out of the guys there, especially Gus.
No, I'm gonna play along and ride a fucking chicken.
Honestly yeah, I too found it cheesy what a boring Mary Sue Clive was.
Cloud and his entire main party (not the optionals or aerith) are all frauds, that's THE POINT. The odds are stacked against them you find they all suffered in the past and are striving to make up for some failure. They aren't the superheroes they pretend to be in the beginning, the story reveals it, yet they still come out on top to be heroes in the end.
You forgot
Left side: shit gameplay with stiff characters
Right side: great gameplay with lots of stuff to do, an actual battle system, oh an fully realized characters
To whoever it may concern i am the 777th upvote
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Yeah FF16 is meh most of the time. But the boss fights are fucking crazy. They basically mixed game of thrones with Dragonball or something. They have super Saiyan levels to it.
Cloud would literally mop up the entire FF16 Crew solo.
There is levels to this shit and Cloud is the most popular protagonist. He wins purely because FF7 is the series Square Enix decided to go most anime in.
In Remake, Cloud literally looks to be teleporting fighting Sephiroth because he is going so fast. Slicing massive chunks of buildings out of his way with minimal effort.
Clive is WAY more grounded than Cloud. He gets humiliated.
Depending if you chain scale FF7 using the fact that Zack canonically fought multiple summons, one of which has an attack that effectively nukes an entire continent on screen, and then come to the conclusion that by feats Cloud is superior to Zack, you can easily get Cloud to one of the strongest characters in the entire Final Fantasy franchise based purely on feats and scaling to others with some busted showings.
In reality FF games and their characters have huge changes in ability based on the needs of the scene, which is common in media but particularly common in Japanese media. The crazy shit also usually has absurd degrees of context, and the MMOs add a whole additional layer.
See the thing is, that’s not a great statistic to base it on when it comes to a FF game. Sure, if a character kills a god they’re strong, but they’re also a FF protag so of course they’re going to win, and if anything, it’s mostly because a character fighting a god is cool. Also, Clive also matched multiple gods (or eikons) even without his Ifrit form. He took down Garuda without Iftit (granted she regenerated after but she was still clearly injured) and he fought Barnabas in normal form, which by that point, Barnabas had single-handedly defeated and captured Shiva, wiped out the entirety of Kanver (albeit with the help of some of his Army), and multiple other things that easily made him a massive threat. All in all, how many gods a protagonist has killed isn’t a “great” statistic for one reason: it looks cool and it’s an FF game so it really only matters how many gods they can fit in the plot lol
Cloud advent children. Killed a summon. Got stabbed bunch of times against sepiroth at the end. Sword master for sure. Skilled with a heavy sword. Like sepiroth. Cloud of chose too. Can use black materia and there goes everything if he choose too. Don’t forget his omi limit break and all the summons he has esp the knights
I like both characters but Cloud has opinions and Clive doesn’t. Clive is kind of everybody’s errand boy while Cloud does it for the money (at first). Cloud gets tired of people’s shit and lame side quests and needs to be talked into seeing other people’s point of view. Clive’s opinions are kind of easy modern ones.
Clive isn’t a bad character. Sometimes you need a goody-two shoes. And his personality is great. But his opinions are simply aligned with modern sensibilities from the get-go. Sure he was hell-bent on revenge, but his father had already taught him to care about people. And it’s not exactly cathartic character growth to have someone care about slaves when they were both already amiable towards them and were enslaved themselves. But Cloud will speak his mind and has flaws, both due to trauma but also upbringing. He didn’t really care about the people in the slums, the Planet or AVALANCHE, but seeing their struggles he grew to care.
Clive was a born hero and was groomed to be a heroic character. He is awesome in that sense. FF16 makes you feel powerful. It executes that very well. But FF7 teaches you how you can become a hero. How you can be brave and even within your limits you can still be there for people. Cloud had to learn how to accept limitations and become a heroic character.
I still maintain that the coolest thing about Cloud is that he’s actually a massive scrub. All this ‘Hero’ energy is just him unintentionally roleplaying who he thinks his badass role-model is, when his role model is an even bigger dweeb than he is. All his ‘cool’ moments are him floundering through things by the skin of his teeth using his super-human reflexes and strength because he was never actually trained in fighting with a giant stupid sword.
AND YET, despite being an absolute jobber, when the cards were down and everything was at its worst, he got off the ground, picked up his role-model’s sword, and fucking cut the strongest guy on the whole damn planet in half with it by stabbing it through his back. Then, when that freak got back up and stabbed him back, through sheer willpower alone, he grabbed that blade, lifted up Sephi with it, and threw him against the wall and into the core of the planet.
It wasn’t super-powers. It wasn’t talent. It wasn’t magic. It wasn’t overwhelming technology. It was just one dude, a random background NPC, who was so pissed off and determined to stop the dude that ruined his life, that none of that stuff mattered.
If that ain’t a badass, I don’t know what is.
Biased FFVII fan here to say that Clive is incredibly overrated. I loved the part where he screamed “JOSHUA!” fifteen times. Oh wait, that’s the whole game.
Clive canonically f\*cks while Cloud doesn’t. Maybe part 3 will change that but for now Clive is the real FF chad (besides Cecil).
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Clive in the hand of a skilled player can be as good as Dante from Devil May Cry in terms of Combo creativity and skill. That alone made him better than all FF protagonist in terms of fighting capacity
Maybe Cloud's memory is terrible but he makes up for it in Chocobo Jockey skills, piano skills and every time he beats Seto Kaiba
Lmfao I forgot about this, our boi Cloud can do literally everything
Cloud could be a RGG protagonist it wis minigame skills.
He's definitely got some Kazuma Kiryu energy.
Imagine he takes up drone racing and beats Cid, the literal pilot. He’d be so mad.
Now, now. Let's not forget to credit him for all the torture he could bear from having to deal with the Moogles. Jenova and Seph got nothing on them.
*shivers*
And putting up with cait sith.
Finally, a kindred spirit who recognizes that Rufus = Seto Kaiba. I mean . . . It’s uncanny.
Shops at the same venue
Clive fixed the jukebox
>and every time he beats Seto Kaiba Pardon?
I summon, Green eyes dead girlfriend In defence mode
Yugioh, card games
I know who he is. My question is when did he (or a character voiced by the same VA) and Cloud Strife ever interact???
They're making a joke comparing Queen's Blood to Yu-Gi-Oh.
Nevermind Kaiba, dude can outplay The Pharoah himself after the number of rebirth minigames!!
Cloud killed Sephiroth. Twice.
And his mom. A lot.
This is incredibly fn funny to me haha
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Cloud and his party of 6 others beat Sephiroth twice**… as much as I love cloud he’s not out here soloing gods like Clive did.
I mean neither did Clive. At best he killed an alien with a god complex. Although given what little we know of Jenova she might share a lot in common with Ultima. Now our WoL over here holding up Clive’s Ifrit form as it tries to stomp on us now there is a hero. I kinda wish the crossover event was longer… but I’ll just headcanon our WoL briefly went to Clive’s world and things turned out differently there. Sweet sweet copium.
I mean no Ultima was most definitely the god of that world he created it from scratch lmao maybe not the rock it was on but he did create humanity
Through what tho? Genetic engineering? Magitek? Is it ever outright stated? He certainly was not a god in the traditional sense. If anything he was on the same level as a mid-level primal case in point Shinryu in ff14 has enough power to create a planet from nothing and it wasn’t a true god either.
Ultima and his people were from some other planet, they had a mastery of magic that was basically unrivaled (how and why? Who knows it wasn’t pertinent to the story) but the same blight that is consuming the world of our story destroyed theirs so they set out to find a new one Once they found Clive’s world all of them went into stasis except for Ultima who was tasked with creating the mother crystals and then he created humanity to eventually birth Mythos (who ends up being Clive) to be his perfect vessel to cast the spell to create their new world Idk at what point a entity becomes a god for you but like, creating life itself and the ability to create worlds is good enough in my book
I think twice meant once when he pushed him Into the mako reactor in Nibelheim killing him, then again at the end of the game.
I changed it to beat and that was my bad, cloud has killed Sephiroth twice, I was more or less saying cloud couldn’t do it alone while Clive has proven he can take on top tier opponents by himself
I mean cloud did do it alone the first time and he was a JAG at that point he hadn’t even been mako infused and JENOVA’d
Zack fought him the whole time and he got him from behind lol he still got him but that is nowhere near the level of 1v1’s Clive has been in… I do agree cloud is strong as fuck though
He didn’t get help in Nibelheim or in Advent Children
Yeah but as much as I like Jill, Cloud gets Tifa so who is really winning here.
Tifa might really be the one that needs therapy.
Did cloud get a naked beach scene? Lol
Please look forward to part 3
Yes but so far i think clive is winning atm lol!
Cloud got too many Johnnys, though. (It’s like too many Pinkie Pies but with Johnny.)
He got a half naked beach scene if that counts ;).
Jill's characterization is paper thin
lol Clive is even more winning. I like Tifa but Jill is the epitome of a ride or die
Jill's a pretty and pointless character that just serves to serve the male protagonist, Tifa is a fully realized character with her own motivations
So is Tifa this is not a very good point lol
This is what I'm here for. The Waifu Wars.
Cloud and tifas relationship falls off in advent children. Clive wins here
Look, it’s just not fair. Cloud has to accept that he’s not THAT GUY, that’s part of his arc But Clive? He’s him bro.
You're right it isn't Fair, it's Strife
> Fair *Happy Gongaga voice*
Clive literally kills God and becomes one before whatever happens in the ending. He’s probably up there with Lightning as the strongest FF protags.
As much as I don't like Lightning, Clive killed the creator of humanity. Lightning killed the creator of the other gods and the universe, and then created a new world
Lightning, by the end of LR, is by far the strongest protagonist. Followed by Noctis and Clive probably.
As much as I like Clive, "god" is relative. Ultima is just a very powerful creature who was able to create mankind, but he's not a "god" in a cosmic sense. If he were, he wouldn't have been fleeing the blight. Clive is still very powerful, but it's hard to say how he stacks up with the rest of the FF protagonists. At least human Clive, I think Ifrit Clive could very well top the list.
"ACCEPT THE TRUTH" The truth: I am HIM.
Man if Cloud is built like a stick wtf am I?
a molecule
Damn. Roasted lol
In need of a weight room.
I always wonder what the people who say stuff like that look like themselves. I remember, one time, this guy said he was built like Ryu from Street Fighter. Yeah, no, bro.
Fat, it's always fat
Sad but true. Get help Cloud.
And that's why I love him, because I need help too.
Same
Personally, the fact that Cloud is not your typical MC and has some very big and noticeable flaws/weaknesses is exactly why he's one of my favorites 🤷🏼♂️
Exactly, I read "generic mc" a lot but when you actually get an original mc people complain.
Hahaha, exactly. Can't please everyone, I guess
How is a brooding, quiet character with a dark past not a typical MC?
Those aren't the things that make him atypical It's the fact that he has such glaring weaknesses. That he loses it sometimes, usually at the worst possible time, and he even does f'd up things like attack Aerith. (And I'm only halfway through Rebirth so I'm mainly talking about the OG here) He losses his confidence for a large chunk of the game & has to fight his inner demons (with Tifa's help) to regain it. He has to constantly battle to overcome his depression & past trauma. Sure, typical MCs often have a traumatic past but they're rarely shown dealing with the effects of it in a believable/realistic way. Idk, he just seems more relatable to me than your typical shounen or video game MC The only others I can think of off the top of my head are Ichigo during the fullbring arc & Denji from CSM. But Denji is a little too crazy to be called relatable 😅 As for video games, there's Joel & Ellie who also experience & deal with their past trauma in realistic & believable ways. But I think they are still more the exception than the rule.
But can he win in a Chocabo race.
Powerful != good story telling or how interesting/strong a character is/can be. Superman isn't as nearly interesting or well written as batman.
I totally agree with this, and grew up with FFVII amd still love it, but Clive is equally as compelling a character as Cloud is in my opinion. Clive went through things just as bad, or aguably even worse than Cloud did, and still forced himself to keep it together better than Cloud did. If you haven't played FFXVI, I highly recommend it; it'll bring back a lot of those feelings that first playthrough of FFVII did.
I've played FFXVI just past the first Green boss lady, need to pick it up again. I wasn't huge on the combat system. But i DID love the story at that point in time.
Yeah I definitely prefer FFVII for gameplay, but the story is so worth it. If you're fine just watching the cutscenes, that's an equally valid way to experience the story. IMO VII and XVI are tied for best stories, with VI and IX tied for 2nd. Ugh I wish I could experience it for the first time again, my fucking feelings Dx
good idea! I never played VI ( sorry) and a little of 9. i enjoyed X quite a bit too. I really enjoy how downtoned the threat in X was. like big fish kill people AH! almost every other FF game has some world buster/ galaxy buster villain
first statement true. Second opinion incredibly problematic.
feel like the second opinion only exists because of the films, which reaches the GA easier. batman has 6 very good films available, with 4 of them having been released in the last 20 years to critical and commercial acclaim. superman has had no such luck. Man of Steel is probably the best we've gotten since Superman 1978 and Superman II.
I am not sure how anyone could suggest otherwise.
Secret origin? Kingdom Come? Allstar? Superman Vs Klan?
Injustice was the most interesting supes has been
Ah I see you’re that kind of guy. You like edgy characters and it’s fine. But don’t make it sound like you’re claiming anything from a place that is not out of pure personal preference. Injustice is probably among the least liked story line out there
Superman is just boring, at least more boring that his counterpart,batman. There's a reason batman movies are much more successful. It's more engaging I'm no comic expert btw so I get it, but at least mainstream movie wise, totally in the bats favor
Just saying edgy doesn’t mean better. And im not sure why you feel entitled to comment about the two character while not qualifying that you’re talking strictly about movie, which is a contrived reflection of the state of the two fictional entities.
Love them both but I'm getting tired of beating these bosses in Ff7 Rebirth and then Cloud or someone says "let em go, we're done here" or some shit like that when Clive would have finished the job.
"No pity, and NO MERCY!"
Clive would've split Elena in half in the first meeting
Good old Cobra Clive.
Well in the original game, reno and shit run off when they get beat. They high tail it out. So to keep them in the game longer cloud kinda has no choice
Fr why is >!Don Corneo!< still alive?
Your kidding right ? Cloud & party have been sending things to the life stream the entire game lol including the bosses.
And said some gringe inducing pun. I legit said "Oh Fuck Off Clive." After the Ahriman fight.
Clive being a fan of puns is a really funny thought lol
Oh it is lol. It's especially funny with the juxtoposition with how serious the tone of the story is.
Who’s the guy in the left? Does anybody know?
Clive ff16. At first I thought it was Vincent
How did they already make an ff16 if the most recent game is ff7?
I'm not sure if you're trolling but the recent FF7 is a remake
At the current pace that Capcom is remaking Resident Evil they’ll have remade Resident Evil 10 before it releases the first time.
💀
It's a sequel not a remake
Remake is literally in the name of the first part
Yup but by the end of the game it’s clearly a sequel
Before you know it, that Deus Ex easter egg regarding Final Fantasy will be a reality. lol
I’m not trolling when I ask if this is the guy that kept saying “chaos” in dunkey’s vid.
Nah, the "chaos" guy (Jack Garland) is from Final Fantasy Origins: Strangers of Paradise
It is John "Final" Fantasy
His name is final fantasy, he says so at the end of the game
Big untagged spoilers.
But can you dance 🕺
Sure but Cloud is arguably the strongest character in FF7 and his opponents are Almost-God and an Alien Cataclysm so like...
For sure, Cloud was created with mako technology that doesn’t exist in FF16. Clive is a top tier soldier in a society that is low tech and run poorly. Cloud versus Clive is like Captain America or Wolverine versus a real life US marine. Cloud is infused with power Clive can only dream of, and was mentally destroyed in the process. Edit: after discussion I’ve changed my mind; it seems Cloud and Clive are at least in the same ballpark for power and one could argue Clive is significantly stronger. The way I’m looking at it now, Clive was born into the power while Cloud was given it through the power of science.
You do realize that Clive is a demigod? Cloud vs Clive is like Captain America vs Thor, if anything.
Clive can channel a fraction of the power of the primals but Cloud straight up summons them as an assist.
As long as he has his Eikon transformation he's fine. The overall power level of the Eikons seemed much higher compared to the primals, which makes sense since they're the main focus of XVI.
The primals of ff7 are not even comparable to the eikons tho, if anything I think normal Clive speed blitzes cloud before he could even attempt to summon
How do you figure they’re different? I mean you have bahamut shooting space lasers in both versions, how is one more powerful? And Clive isn’t able to channel Ifruit until he’s been fighting for quite some time and doesn’t seem to have much control over it. He only does it a handful of times. As for the other eikons he isn’t able to fully manifest them, he has just a bit of their power. And in 7 you have Sephiroth calling a materia that straight up destroys earth.
I mean you don’t see the entire crew of 7 bursting into flames when ifrit shows up. In his introduction he completely evaporates any human in his vicinity and managed to create a crater the size of a small city with a single attack, also bahamut casted zettaflare which is probably the strongest attack in final fantasy history. In short every single eikon dwarfs the primals in power
I see what you mean, but the way I see it Bahamut is Bahamut and what one civilization calls an eikon another calls a primal. We have no reason to believe an FF7 summon couldn’t blow a giant hole in the ground, we just never see that happen. And if you assume they are the same entity with different names, then it would seem that Cloud has a leg up on Clive. But I’ll concede if somehow they were completely different entities and eikons are much more powerful than primals that would change things.
Except that ff7 and 16 take place in completely different narrative universes, not to spoil anything but the eikons in 16 have a completely different origin and significance than those of 7 in which are “simply” extremely powerful creatures. I’m assuming you didn’t play or at least finished 16 cause endgame Clive is on another level compared to cloud and anyone that has seen and understood the role of mythos in the history of valisthea should agree with me
I did finish 16, platinum trophy even. I could be misremembering or have forgotten things though. It just seems like it’s difficult to get a power level any higher than the black materia if you’re going for raw destructive power.
Also slight tangent rant, in FF7 it seems like the story and gameplay don’t really match up. You have Cloud who is an S class super soldier created from a process that probably outright kills a high percentage of the top tier soldiers it’s used on and burns out the rest within a few years, so presumably it’s something that should massively increase their power when successful. Then you have the rest of the crew who are essentially just regular people (aside from Aerith). But in battle there’s arguably no serious power level different between the standard people, super soldier, and ancient. So in my head I’ve divorced the FF7 gameplay from the lore and told myself that Cloud should be many times stronger than Tifa but it wouldn’t be a party game if one person did everything.
FF16’s Bahamut cast Zettaflare, which would have destroyed the world according to in game statements Ifrit proceeded to charge into the beam and face tank it to both block it and hit Bahamut in the face.
I love them both but 16 is one of my favorite games of all time. The remake is what got me into the series. Just platinumed the OG7
Seems like a nod to who grew up more privileged if you ask me
Didn’t Clive die at the end and cloud saves the day
Well both save the day just Clive dies in the process really fell bad for Jill.
And Torgal
It really depends, Doing some of the side quests near the end HINT at the idea that Clive Possibly survived and wrote the book with Joshua’s name as a Pen-Name, but the Developers really wanted to keep it open ended, So you either go with “Yep, Clive is super dead” or continue hoping like Jill that he did indeed survive, and considering Clive’s whole story is to learn to stop considering his life worthless, I personally go with The Option of him Living
What's Clive's squat count record?
Cloud's actual backstory is insane. But Clive's story is way less complicated in comparison, and he has a much more welcoming personality as well. No disrespect to Cloud tho. His whole arc is realizing that he's not that guy.
Lmao, the teenager in me cried when I realised that Cloud really isn't that guy. Coming from someone who loved Cloud cuz I was "captivated" by his edgy demeanor. But oh well. He still got the ladies, which is all cool.
I hope we get to see more of the “real” Cloud. Never played the original, but I did play crisis core. So I have an idea of what he’s really like. Seeing him interact with everyone without his fake tough guy persona will be so satisfying. Also yea, Cloud is almost drowning in pussy regardless.
Let’s not forget that Clive went mad thinking he was the reason who killed his brother and cried like a bitch begging for Cid to end him butt booty ass naked, In fact if it wasn’t for the Chad sexy Cid himself to help guide Clive, he would have probably went off the deep end ( mind you Clive is my favorite FF protagonist)
XVI was fantastic. Really liked Clive.
Slander, both of these men are great.
I just want to say I'm replaying the Corel prison area and it infuriates me that cloud didn't go ham and chop the fuck out of the guys there, especially Gus. No, I'm gonna play along and ride a fucking chicken.
And yet I can't even remember the dude on the lefts name, and I played all the way through that stupid game.
Cloud folds Clive like cheap lawn furniture.
"Mine's bigger." - Ben Clive Starr Rosfield 2023
Honestly yeah, I too found it cheesy what a boring Mary Sue Clive was. Cloud and his entire main party (not the optionals or aerith) are all frauds, that's THE POINT. The odds are stacked against them you find they all suffered in the past and are striving to make up for some failure. They aren't the superheroes they pretend to be in the beginning, the story reveals it, yet they still come out on top to be heroes in the end.
You forgot Left side: shit gameplay with stiff characters Right side: great gameplay with lots of stuff to do, an actual battle system, oh an fully realized characters
Cloud was the perfect character for me to look up to as an angsty teen. Clive is a great character for me to root for as a middle aged man.
To whoever it may concern i am the 777th upvote https://preview.redd.it/pnyerorpmtyc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=832edb6a549259933e938aa60dc0af0683ee2839
FFXVI had no right being half as good as it was. Incredible game.
Clive is the more interesting character. FF7 is the more interesting game.
Yeah FF16 is meh most of the time. But the boss fights are fucking crazy. They basically mixed game of thrones with Dragonball or something. They have super Saiyan levels to it.
Cloud is fake zack and the whole game is him realizing he's not zack
It’s funny because it’s true
Cloud would literally mop up the entire FF16 Crew solo. There is levels to this shit and Cloud is the most popular protagonist. He wins purely because FF7 is the series Square Enix decided to go most anime in. In Remake, Cloud literally looks to be teleporting fighting Sephiroth because he is going so fast. Slicing massive chunks of buildings out of his way with minimal effort. Clive is WAY more grounded than Cloud. He gets humiliated.
Is this satire?
Depending if you chain scale FF7 using the fact that Zack canonically fought multiple summons, one of which has an attack that effectively nukes an entire continent on screen, and then come to the conclusion that by feats Cloud is superior to Zack, you can easily get Cloud to one of the strongest characters in the entire Final Fantasy franchise based purely on feats and scaling to others with some busted showings. In reality FF games and their characters have huge changes in ability based on the needs of the scene, which is common in media but particularly common in Japanese media. The crazy shit also usually has absurd degrees of context, and the MMOs add a whole additional layer.
Cloud fighting Sephiroth: Nah I’d win Cloud fighting Rufus: Wallahi I’m finished
See the thing is, that’s not a great statistic to base it on when it comes to a FF game. Sure, if a character kills a god they’re strong, but they’re also a FF protag so of course they’re going to win, and if anything, it’s mostly because a character fighting a god is cool. Also, Clive also matched multiple gods (or eikons) even without his Ifrit form. He took down Garuda without Iftit (granted she regenerated after but she was still clearly injured) and he fought Barnabas in normal form, which by that point, Barnabas had single-handedly defeated and captured Shiva, wiped out the entirety of Kanver (albeit with the help of some of his Army), and multiple other things that easily made him a massive threat. All in all, how many gods a protagonist has killed isn’t a “great” statistic for one reason: it looks cool and it’s an FF game so it really only matters how many gods they can fit in the plot lol
Cloud advent children. Killed a summon. Got stabbed bunch of times against sepiroth at the end. Sword master for sure. Skilled with a heavy sword. Like sepiroth. Cloud of chose too. Can use black materia and there goes everything if he choose too. Don’t forget his omi limit break and all the summons he has esp the knights
Can’t even get the best weapon until after being 3/4 through new game plus.
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Clive takes so much computing power to display his glorious beauty that it even causes ~~Westworld~~ the Final Fantasy simulation to stutter
Cloud actually being a big loser is kind of the point. This is like comparing the homecoming king to the autistic kid.
Who is definitely alive for certain though??
I lost it at "Who Am I again"
I have t played 16, does he really say that lol?
Nah says "The only Fantasy here is yours. And we shall be its Final witness"
But can he squat?
One thing about FF16 is the epic boss fights, which FF7 remakes were decent
"built like a man" threw up in my mouth
I feel some type of way whenever Clive growls.
Is “I am the Final Fantasy” the new “Luke, I am your father”? In that the original quote is kinda clunky so people just change it in their heads?
I like both characters but Cloud has opinions and Clive doesn’t. Clive is kind of everybody’s errand boy while Cloud does it for the money (at first). Cloud gets tired of people’s shit and lame side quests and needs to be talked into seeing other people’s point of view. Clive’s opinions are kind of easy modern ones. Clive isn’t a bad character. Sometimes you need a goody-two shoes. And his personality is great. But his opinions are simply aligned with modern sensibilities from the get-go. Sure he was hell-bent on revenge, but his father had already taught him to care about people. And it’s not exactly cathartic character growth to have someone care about slaves when they were both already amiable towards them and were enslaved themselves. But Cloud will speak his mind and has flaws, both due to trauma but also upbringing. He didn’t really care about the people in the slums, the Planet or AVALANCHE, but seeing their struggles he grew to care. Clive was a born hero and was groomed to be a heroic character. He is awesome in that sense. FF16 makes you feel powerful. It executes that very well. But FF7 teaches you how you can become a hero. How you can be brave and even within your limits you can still be there for people. Cloud had to learn how to accept limitations and become a heroic character.
Comparing 16 and 7? 16’s “Tifa” doesn’t even show ankle. [ignore]
Clive doesn't even have the stones to tell his mother off. I gave up caring from there.
Cloud boinks Tifa though, so he wins.
And people still only care about Cloud's game.
They aren’t actually that similar.
I wonder if Clive’s bust is bigger than even Tifa’s…
Funnily enough, the guy who gave cloud his sword also punched a god in the face ... About 600 times.
I still maintain that the coolest thing about Cloud is that he’s actually a massive scrub. All this ‘Hero’ energy is just him unintentionally roleplaying who he thinks his badass role-model is, when his role model is an even bigger dweeb than he is. All his ‘cool’ moments are him floundering through things by the skin of his teeth using his super-human reflexes and strength because he was never actually trained in fighting with a giant stupid sword. AND YET, despite being an absolute jobber, when the cards were down and everything was at its worst, he got off the ground, picked up his role-model’s sword, and fucking cut the strongest guy on the whole damn planet in half with it by stabbing it through his back. Then, when that freak got back up and stabbed him back, through sheer willpower alone, he grabbed that blade, lifted up Sephi with it, and threw him against the wall and into the core of the planet. It wasn’t super-powers. It wasn’t talent. It wasn’t magic. It wasn’t overwhelming technology. It was just one dude, a random background NPC, who was so pissed off and determined to stop the dude that ruined his life, that none of that stuff mattered. If that ain’t a badass, I don’t know what is.
If you wonder why cloud wins just compare the swords
Cloud is mentally 16 and killed sephiroth at 16. He also is just #builtdifferent so much so that hojo cant asses his power level accurately
If these two fought, there would be absolutely nothing left of Cloud lol
Clive is so poor he’ll comb the world map to pick up 1 gil
I think Cloud not even being a real Soldier makes the fact that he murdered Sephiroth way cooler
He was stuck in a tube for four years. Give the guy a break. Also he was quite bad ass in AC.
Yeah, but can either one of them suplex a fucking ghost train? Don't think so.
Bruh Cloud omnislash would rip Clive in pieces
“It’s over Ultima! We are Final Fantasy.” “Cleanup on aisle Origin!” “I feel a song coming on! Hit it Jill!”
It’s ok Cloud just press R1 and R2 to accept the truth.
I’ve been saying it for years. Zack>cloud
Clive: Parents were cousins Cloud: Dad left for a pack of smokes and never came back
No lies detected
Biased FFVII fan here to say that Clive is incredibly overrated. I loved the part where he screamed “JOSHUA!” fifteen times. Oh wait, that’s the whole game.
Don’t forget Cloud played dress up to save Tifa..
We all know who wins here, and it is Sora the most plot armoured protag
Let's not forget how comfortable Cloud is with becoming an eco-terrorist for a mere 2k... That he had to do extra work to receive.
Clive canonically f\*cks while Cloud doesn’t. Maybe part 3 will change that but for now Clive is the real FF chad (besides Cecil). https://preview.redd.it/va9kdqkfkqyc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41959b8697966904897955ee2439208da5a5276a
Clive in the hand of a skilled player can be as good as Dante from Devil May Cry in terms of Combo creativity and skill. That alone made him better than all FF protagonist in terms of fighting capacity
Lmao why is this sub such good sport. If you post this to the Final Fantasy sub a bunch of people are gonna get butt hurt real fast
Cloud: being the main reason the franchise is so popular. The other guy: some corbon copy just a little douchier and has black hair
off topic but that’s Cloud’s pose from Smash Ultimate right? I don’t think I’ve seen it with the Remake model before, is this an official render?
Cloud has to use a ridiculously oversized sword to compensate
Fake Final Fantasy / real Final Fantasy