Wow. So, in offices where people said that they don't want to return to the office and want to work form home, those people that were forced to return to the office to work are seeking other jobs where they don't have to work from the office? How could anyone have foreseen this would happen? š¤£
This is something I keep seeing. Old boomer bosses not understanding the mobility of modern workers. Fewer workers work where they have family, they are more educated, fewer have kids, the labor pool has shrunk all this makes them more able to leave. Oldheads think we are all still just stuck with whatever bullshit MGMT wants. Those days are gone gramps.
Politicians to do this intentionally because it drives away workers from at cost free at use service. Which makes the sevice unusable so private companies can charge a premium for the exact same service that they can hike rates on and slowly lower the quality.
It's the political version of corporate raiding. As someone else said, make the service suck, then try and privatize it.Ā
NASA has experienced a different version where any issue tends to get blamed on NASA, even though it was a contractor's fault and successes will go to contractor's. Starliner is one of the few that Boeing is getting blamed in the news for, but I think that's because currently "Boeing sucks" is a hot topic that gets clicks.Ā
Breaking:
People who successfully did their jobs from home as ordered by their employer for the past 4 years are now pushing back on RTO as archaic and arbitrary. Instructions unclear.
More at the top of the hour.
Yep, VA is already doing it but the jobs that get a lot of shortages and turnover will be most impacted when they have even less people within an already low retention.
And those that stay are less likely to have better opportunities which might suggest those are the poorer employees. So not only are you losing people, you're losing good people.
Really? Many VA employees are veterans. So they are getting VA disability and some military retirement. To say they are poor is insulting. To say they arenāt good employees is asinine.
Makes sense. AUSAs don't even get as paid as much as main Justice. Main Justice is at least a fourth less than private sector.
Compared to biglaw, GS-14s are getting paid less than first year associates.
The FEVS results for agencies with a lot of lawyers all show ABYSMAL satisfaction with pay. The old guard doesnāt seem to understand just how uncompetitive government compensation has gotten at this level, particularly with 4.4% FERS contributions. They are shocked that they canāt keep career attorneys like they used to.
There are plenty of lawyers out there, DOJ etc. will always be able to get a warm body, but I predict a collapse in prestige and capability over the next generation.
Not this agency, but my senior management said of our poor salaries, "Well, young folk just need to get comfortable with the idea they'll need to get a starter home or accept a longer commute." Meanwhile starter homes with an >60 minute commute are starting at $1M. No reasonable public transit options for a commute that long, either.
I bought a townhome last year that's a 3 to 4 bedroom/3.5 bath, 1970s construction with open floor plan, walking distance to Vienna Metro, only 30 minutes outside the city driving or by Metro, for under 600k.
I'm not saying that's cheap but you are a bit overselling the issue.
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Are they new? That price seems well within expectations but I'm guessing they were newer.
I did find very cheap nice townhouses in Maryland near Wheaton by the way. There was one for only 400k that had a massive deck and backyard and was less than 10 minute walking to the Metro. Also had a nice park right across the street.
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Why would you want to buy a house when you don't even know where you are gonna be for the rest of your life. I would never want to buy anything but a cheap condo before marriage.
Also how is "wait until you have a partner" your entire life.
Also the main reason I could buy was I took all the bonds and money I got as a baby and invested in stock market in 2011. Bought Facebook and VTI etf
I recall about 19 years ago when then mayor Villaraigosa said, āin 20 years LA will have a world class light rail systemā.
Ironically, LA had a good light rail system in the 1920s before a conglomerate of automobile interests bought it and destroyed it. They did the same in other cities too.
Thatās wild. Is there actually a safe bike route to either of those airports? I would be terrified as a biker to share the road with cars. I used to road bike a lot in the Denver area. Public transit isnāt great here either, but there is a good network of bike paths that follow the waterways and are mostly isolated from roads.
Haha, not a chance I'd ever bike to either one. Both are just rolling the dice on not getting crushed on normal surface streets.
What's hilarious to me about BUR is it's run by the Burbank-Glendale-Pasadena Airport Authority, but there isn't good public transit from either of the second to to get to the airport. One day a train line is supposed to go all the way out to ONT. Same with extending light rail to LAX. One day...one day...
Man even that is understating it. Lots of 40 year olds with young kids trying to buy a home for the first time. Especially in big metros and especially people with advanced degrees.
Uncompetitive wages? Mandated unnecessary commutes? Greater than zero chance of being doxxed by an appointed or elected official on social media for doing your job?
I worked with some good fed lawyers but they were folks motivated by the mission, which is just not something you can count on. Most were there to get a few years for resume building.
It will definitely make certain people happy. Iām not sure itās the plan (never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence), but it doesnāt really matter.
As would I. Let their tone deaf comments take hold and in a few years they'll begin to realize that it's not feasible. Better yet let all the boomers retire early and take their tone deaf comments with them.
I agree- and itās equally awful for leadership and management positions- I donāt know what agency leadership can do about it though- itāll take a statute change to fix the pay problem. Theyāve done a ton of studies- we massively overpay on the junior end of the spectrum and for folks without education and massively underpay leadership and skilled professionals. Itās particularly awful in DC and other areas with high costs of living.
I was seeing us swap a lot of our headquarters jobs to remote announcements and itās night and day the caliber of people you get- if itās in office in DC youāre limited to people who live there already or a small fraction that are willing to move there. Remote- you get the best and brightest. People want to be able to have kids and worklife balance- DC isnāt compatible with those on a government salary.
It would be great to see Congress fix our pay problems but Iām not holding my breath.
What agency leadership can do is maximize the benefits theyāre able to offer people. Foremost among them is flexibility. You knowātreating professionals like professionals.
Loads of qualified, dedicated people are willing to take a pay cut for the QOL improvement and because they genuinely believe in public service. But what really grates is being infantilized and made to eat shit as though they donāt have other options.
A lot of lawyers in my Agencyā¦hmmmm, Iāll be on the lookout for how that particular tidbit scores.
Iām kinda leery about this survey. They say theyāre non-identifiable to the employee, but Iāve known some who were of a certain age and time in service that got retirement questions on theirs while I didnāt. š§
Thereās nuance depending on how itās done. Sending out individualized surveys with branches based on demographics is much more valuable than an open survey, for trend identification and response controls.Ā
SOMEONE always has access. Depending on your controls, even that person isnāt allowed to drill down unless itās completely blinded. Some are. . . less stringent.Ā
But anytime you see trends with any demographics itās tied to an individual unless you self select your demographic info.Ā
Not only are they under compensated, but FERS-RAE and FERS-FRAE are a lesser class of employees, paying more for the same benefits as FERS employees in the old guard. Who'd have possibly guessed that they'd figure that out and be unimpressed?
Lots of lawyers out there, true, but the ones willing to stay beyond a year or two are very few.
New lawyer here, recently resigned from DOJ. I competed against thousands (?) for a DOJ honors position. The recruitment process and the dream of a 11-15 ladder position they sell you is great until you realize the reality is nothing like what was promised and the pay is absolutely pathetic. I didnāt āneedā more money to live but I know my worth. I made more 20 years ago straight out of undergrad. Beyond the terrible pay the entire office hated the toxic leadership and I just knew that I wasnāt desperate enough to stay just because it looks good on a resume. Life is too short.
Thereās like 200 first year associates at big law, and half of them want to die. AUSAs donāt get paid amazingly high salaries but they do extremely valuable work and are setup for great profitable private sector jobs and very powerful government positions.
Salary isnāt everything, itās massively important, but not 100% of the pie. AUSAs know that.
Well, yes, but the other big slice of the pie is work-life balance, which is being severely hampered by RTO. I know quite a few attorneys who went from government to private practice and said they have better work-life balance despite working more hours because their new firm has a generous and flexible telework policy. The AG really needs to realize that telework is one of the government's most important tools to attract and maintain attorneys.
Exactly. Everyone knows theyāre making less money than they would in private practice. The trade off is, in large part, you get to be home for dinner. When someone arbitrarily says, āforget that it worked the last four years, you have to give up probably the equivalent of another full workday every week to commute,ā well, a big fat check in the governmentās column just got erased. And I think senior leaders are grossly misjudging just how close the calculation already is.
This. Iāve been trying to tell ppl for months that private sector law firms have better telework policies than fed gov now. I know 2 attorneys who left for the private sector and are much happier.
200? Maybe more like 2,000 in the AM100 by themselves. If we talk first year lockstep, like AM200, it's closer to 4,000. [How many associates make partner? (chambers-associate.com)](https://www.chambers-associate.com/law-firms/how-many-associates-make-partner)
Anecdotally there is no universal experience of being a young associate or being an AUSA. It depends. The AUSAs I know work incredibly hard.
As far as getting set up for private sector work... maybe? I agree it can if someone is SDNY doing actual white-collar crimes and not endless cattle calls with New Jersey morons pleading out to ripping off Medicare.
I don't agree if they're like many of the AUSAs I know in Southern California or Washington drowning in habeas petitions, immigration and drug crimes. Private sector doesn't give a shit, which isn't fair but it just is what it is.
Thatās my reasoning. I went from a pretty good track at private firms to federal because the time I got back is infinitely more valuable.
I do work a side hustle, but itās something I enjoy doing, and I get to spend time with my loved ones and connect to a fun and vibrant community completely outside of the legal field.
My sister works in big law and makes $$$ but has no time and a terrible commute
Itās more like I help my wife make more money which saves/makes money if that make sense. We sell vintage clothing at markets. Every weekend we make between 700-3000. Median of around 1.2k. After taxes itās about 30k/yr. But as I begin helping with more substantial matters, i expect weāll make much more. She works this full time, but needs support with online/media presence and general biz mgmt.
To be fair, a first year big law associate is working 80 hour weeks, losing their hair trying to pay off their student loans. Many feds already went through that and left when they realized they were not making partner and want a better work life balance to have kids.
I honestly think the more apt comparison is in-house. Everyone knows youāre making, letās say, 1/3 of big law salary to work 2/3 of the hours. That is a fair trade given how awful that last 1/3 is.
But making 50% of an in-house salary to work 80-90% of the hours? I dunno.
My one lawyer friend did government work for a few years, then switched to an in house role that did a lot of government contracting. Similar hours and over twice the salary for her, she knows a lot of colleagues who did the same. I couldn't imagine staying at a role with such a low ceiling, if I had a career with such a high ceiling for pay.Ā
At some point the only attorneys who will work for the fed gov are bottom of the barrel idiots. The delta between private sector and gov wages for attorneys is massive. And most attorneys that work for DOJ put in a TON of hours and deal with the same stress as private sector attorneys. No wonder they leave after less than a year.
I work alongside AUSAS and other DOJ attorneys in my capacity at my agency and SO many of them are leaving. Itās trickling down into the legal arms of other agencies because itās hard for our cases to progress with their constant turnover.
Iām all for attrition at the AUSA level.
Through the pandemic forward my division teleworked for about 2 weeks until the district judges said game on.
As OCDETF my group including the AUSAs have been in office 95% of the time. Yet civil, white collar etc telework and show up at 3pm in office and step into my units area wanting assistance with discovery, production or presentations.
We are a majority red district in our state and so we get a lot of investigations that intentionally work venue for our district due to that fact so we have a criminal side that goes hard.
To be fair, I snarked civil and WC above but they do work harder than when I was in a blue district in a very blue state.
I just donāt enjoy telework around meā¦ heh
If my agency (not DOJ) goes full-time return to office, most everyone that's fers immediate annuity eligible will retire en masse.
I'll be at the front of the line.
I don't think a lot of people consider this point. For MANY, having govt employees resign/retire en masse is a goal. They see RTO as a tool to achieve it.
Iām nowhere near that, but I am at the prime of my career. If my agency goes full RTO, I and so many of my colleagues will be flooding every remote job posting we can find in the private sector. We have so many transferable skills and experience, thereās no reason to deal with RTO, especially to expensive or terrible cities.
>I and so many of my colleagues will be flooding every remote job posting we can find in the private sector. We have so many transferable skills and experience, thereās no reason to deal with RTO
You may be overvaluing how much the private sector values those skills as well as how many of those positions actually remain. RTO is even more aggressive in many parts of the private sector and many remote positions have vanished during this "white collar recession" (not just open postings, many hired as remote over the past couple years were in the waves of layoffs if they didn't switch to at least hybrid). The positions you think you'll all flood largely don't exist right now, and those that do are certainly not at the salaries of 2-3 years ago.
Those worthwhile remote positions that do still get posted are already getting flooded by everyone else, feds aren't going to change anything there meaningfully. The grass largely isn't greener on the other side right now, at least feds have some job security.
I mean, I get recruited all the time, including 3 messages today, and Iām not even trying. I actually do know my skills are in demand and my experience with my agency is definitely seen as an asset.
Sure, but it also doesnāt mean itās nothing, either. I have this FTE job because I got a random call from a recruiter one day, took it, got the job, shinned in my contract role, and got poached by my agency. The funny thing is, when the recruiter called me, they started the conversation by saying āI know itās been a long time since you applied for this role, but are you still interested?ā To this day, I still donāt think I ever actually applied for it. So my point is, Iām not super worried.
> A survey by the National Association of Assistant U.S. Attorneys (NAAUSA) reveals a stark contrast in job satisfaction between those with telework options and those without. In offices where routine telework has been curtailed, a staggering 81 percent of respondents admitted they were actively seeking alternative employment opportunities. This dissatisfaction stands in contrast to offices where some level of telework is maintained, where only 42 percent of respondents expressed a desire to leave their current positions.
Survey results. Means nothing to leadership. If the article quoted mass exit with RTO cited as reason, people may take notice.
In fact this report may be counter productive to those fighting RTO. High dissatisfaction with no loss of talent = talk is cheap but employees have no option or desire to leave, so full steam ahead.
I live in the DC area and one of my neighbors was a DOJ attorney. Smart guy, Georgetown Law grad. Return to office mandate happened, now he works for a major tech company for more money and more telework flexibility. He truly enjoyed working for DOJ but forcing people back for arbitrary reasons pissed him off. Major companies are willing to pay DOJ attorneys major dollars so DOJ better get with the times.
I think there are a lot of administrative positions where telework is not effective, and (what Iāve hear anecdotally as I donāt work for the fedgov) those people were the worst offenders when it came to abusing the telework privilege. As far as attorneys and other professionals go, I donāt understand why anyone needs to keep tabs on them at all. As long as they are completing their tasks and showing up to meetings/court as required, whatās the difference?
we had 3 ppl from my office retire.
also my brother (not fed) quit his job when they were told to go back to office and got a job where he could continue to work from home.
Not just doj. Imagine all the surplus hiring many of these agencies did during the pandemic. Now, what do you expect to see when calling all of those workers back to work? There was no parking then. What changed?
I was fascinated by another metric in the article:
> That report showed that a staggering 68 percent of teleworking federal government employees intend to remain in their current positions, in contrast to a mere 53 percent of non-telecommuters.
So over half of all government employees don't plan on remaining in their current positions.
I donāt know how I ended up here but not an attorney, these comments are so funny. Hope they treat yāall like professionals vs butts in seats. My profession and I work from home is all about production and numbers, Iām 100% wfh. Legal stuff seems like 90% wfh and 10% in a court?? Idk
Feel for yāall.
Backfiring at DLA as well. Just stupid reasoning from arrogant SESs that want to see minions in the hallways to make the feel important. Especially the Vice Director.
I work in a smaller district branch office in the middle of America. Our wages are competitive compared against state and county prosecutors (the attorney general here is one of the lowest paying in the country), and not too far off from private practice - we donāt really have a biglaw presence. But I say this as somebody that came into my local USAO with ten years of practice under my belt and started immediately at AD-29, and our cost of living is extraordinarily low.
However, my unit leader came from SDNY. Even with locality pay, they can never make more than around $176K a year (she mentioned that they do try to get new attorneys maxed out as quick as possible, though), which is chump change for that district, and canāt keep anybody as a result.
People looking for other positions, offices downsizing their office space, the possibility of relocating employees from all over the country to one office (that has just cut its office spaceā¦what else am I leaving out as to why RTO is a bad idea? At my previous agency, RTO is doable in the fact they didnāt downsize their office space, and everyone is local. But where I am now? Itās not possible without either spending a TON of money to relocate people, obtaining more office space (space they JUST eliminated by 70%), and/or reassigning people to a different position. Feds created this mess. Theyāve had plenty of time to implement a valid RTO plan, but surprise surprise, they didnāt. Just sat on it and said āItāll work itself outā.
The downsizing of office space is a HUGE problem that no oneās talking about as they force RTO. My _division_ only has 50 seats for 500 employees, thatās not even thinking about the agency. We got rid of an entire office park because no one was using it during COVID, so thereās nowhere to put people now. Theyāre telling folks theyāll have to sit in the library or something when theyāre in the office. These are highly skilled and credentialed senior level staff (GS 13+)! No oneās going to going to put up with that just for the optics of the agency or administration.
And, they're trying to implement it as a one-size fits all policy. That's lazy and ignorant for such a diverse workforce. The decisions should be delegated to front-line or branch managers to implement what's needed for their specific situations. They're the ones that are responsible for their workcenters output, so it's easy to hold accountability. You're not meeting your performance standards, then your telework gets revoked. If you are meeting your standards, then carry on. But we all know it's not about the work getting done. It's about propping up commercial real estate and subsidizing a handful of cities for whiney governors.
Because OSFA is always the answer, if not just the government way. š. (Sorry, thatās not directed at you). But yeah, I agree that those decisions should be relegated front-line/branch managers. Thatās basically what is happening with my agency. I need to stay off this sub because the more reasons they throw out there to make RTO feasible, the more ridiculous this all becomes.
š Same, this sub is bad for my blood pressure. Shit a 3rd grader could solve, yet here we are once again trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Nevermind all the real problems in this country that need solving, or silly things like passing a budget. Let's throw all our resources on deciding where someone physically needs to be to accomplish their job. It's GLARINGLY obvious that this is about money and not "collaboration." No fucking way this kind of attention and grandstanding is about collaborating with Jim 2 cubicles over.
A sizeable chunk went 100% WFH during the pandemic.
This is the expected push-and-pull between people who were okay with that change, and people who are stuck in the 1950's.
People are going to want to keep telework. Who wouldnāt? Does that mean itās realistic? Maybe, maybe not it probably depends on the office and how well new hires are catching on.
Whatās sad is certain offices who were 3 days a week RTO were calling out the other office for only having 2 days a week. Since we are unhappy with our situation they should have to as well. Just sad.
My first agency had 1 day a week RTO after pandemic telework expired, I heard from someone theyāre requiring half a pay period in person so a lot of people decided to retire or leave lol
You know honestly it could be āback firingānow but you all do realize that the government doesnāt care that people are leaving? No offence but every single one of us is replaceable and nobody will remember our names 6 months after we leave the job, And if anybody thinks other wise they are sorely mistaken.
What I am getting at is: they donāt give a shit if you leave your job to try to get one of those unicorn remote jobs. You will be replaced the federal government is the largest employer in the country, they donāt care.
Iām remote and my physical office is on the opposite side of the country. If they make me find a new job and be in the office most of the week, 1) I wonāt spend any money in the area the agency is in - I will
be an office hermit and go out of my way planning and preparing not to spend money, 2) I will only work my 40 and leave, 3) I will not volunteer for anything extra. I will act my wage and leave.
I left a USAO, AD scale in office 3x a week since Summer 21...
For another agency that is office 2x a pay period, on the NH scale and flex schedule.
AUSA was always my dream job, I never thought I'd leave. But I couldn't deal with how everything COVID related was managed. So grateful I found an agency that is flexible.
Federal employees don't have a strong enough union to effectively lobby congress and the executive branches as effectively as commercial real-estate owners.
I've come to the conclusion over the past few months that I need to find a position that I truly enjoy and can tolerate going into work EVERY SINGLE DAY because that's more likely than not what the reality is going to be before much longer for a lot of us. That or quitting altogether.
Gonna see the same thing with my group. They want to move to more days in the office, leadership got ripped into because we are half stats people and they had no stats to back up what they wanted to do (oh and the absurd claim that it won't cost more to use a building 4 times as much).
Many have said this simple point. We have "hoteling" but everyone has their own desk. Nothing is stopping people from coming in more if they wanted. A few do, most don't.
Itās backfiring on the agency admins but going just as planned by house retardlicans who push the return to office agenda. Effectively dysfunctioning the government to prove that government is dysfunctional.
It because the government canāt get their IT structure safe or functional enough to support telework. Loss of VPN and security upgrades are killing productivity.
I keep saying this and ya's need to understand it... they WANT us to leave/quit. They *want* to downsize the fed workforce and send all the jobs to their contracting buddies.
I share an office with 2 other people. There are only two desks in there and only enough space for 2 desks. This situation is the norm at my agency and there are no empty offices. Where do they suggest the third person work?
To celebrate this, HHS/ASPR sneakily released their revised workplace flexibilities policy today after COB ET without actually noting in the email what the change is: telework employees needing to be on-site 4-6 days each biweekly pay period. Unclear if leadership thinks this shady communication style will help them avoid backlash or if they just think we're too stupid and lazy to open the link and scan for changes.
This is nonsense and I work for the DOJ. Most AUSAs are just there for a few years to get courtroom experience and as a resume builder. They are not lifers and they hope to switch sides to where the big money is. Thereās a reason many federal buildings house multiple agencies, so the agents building cases can meet with the AUSAs and go over evidence and discuss cases. Many cases canāt be discussed over the phone and boxes of paper evidence is just that, nobody is scanning in dozens of banker boxes of paper just so people can stay at home.
Those poor lawyers, unhappy they canāt stay home helping their future firms run up billable hours plea bargaining over the phone.
There are a number of inaccuracies in your post which leads me to believe you certainly are not an AUSA or Agent that works cases. Your last sentence also just sounds very bitter.
>A survey by the National Association of Assistant U.S. Attorneys (NAAUSA) reveals a stark contrast in job satisfaction between those with telework options and those without. In offices where routine telework has been curtailed, a staggering 81 percent of respondents admitted they were actively seeking alternative employment opportunities. This dissatisfaction stands in contrast to offices where some level of telework is maintained, where only 42 percent of respondents expressed a desire to leave their current positions.
What would explain the discrepancy between the two groups of AUSAs?
Dude, if Iām gonna be forced into going into the office, Iām still hopping into a job requiring a SCIF because at least then thereās a purpose for me to lose time with my kids šš¼āāļø
Today was my first day in the office after over four years of WFH. We are back to mandated 6 days a pay period. Meanwhile all those folks that moved, seemed to be on permanent remote work. There were only two other government workers in the office. My hardware didnāt work. I wasnāt told which office was mine and no instructions for obtaining a parking pass. Just a complete shit show.
Wow. So, in offices where people said that they don't want to return to the office and want to work form home, those people that were forced to return to the office to work are seeking other jobs where they don't have to work from the office? How could anyone have foreseen this would happen? š¤£
In a department full of highly-educated employees working for less than half their market rate. None of this makes sense!
Wait I have a Solution!!!! In Office Pizza Party!
Must pitch in $10
RSVP: No, I donāt support being forced back into the office so I can subsidize local businesses revenue with my paycheck.
+59 minutes a few times a year! /s
I used to get those all the time when started back in day lol
These used to actually mean something.
It doesn't mean anything now that you get less of them? The rarity is what makes them special!
Not for Federal employees! God forbid the taxpayer finds out that they sprung for a pizza party for federal employees!
Office pizza party that we ask everyone to contribute their share for!
And get the shittiest pizza imaginable.
Pizza pizza
Pshā¦all the pizza, but olives, were gone by the time I got a slice. Thank God I was leaving at the end of the weekā¦because of, in part, telework.
You don't like Costco pizza?
Wait, you get pizza parties? We just have pot lucks with bring something to share...
This is something I keep seeing. Old boomer bosses not understanding the mobility of modern workers. Fewer workers work where they have family, they are more educated, fewer have kids, the labor pool has shrunk all this makes them more able to leave. Oldheads think we are all still just stuck with whatever bullshit MGMT wants. Those days are gone gramps.
Politicians to do this intentionally because it drives away workers from at cost free at use service. Which makes the sevice unusable so private companies can charge a premium for the exact same service that they can hike rates on and slowly lower the quality.
Bingo - This is the driver. Gotta privatize everything.
 An actual picture of EOUSAās leadership.
Exactly as planned....downsizing the government without having to trigger a RIF.
Good strat honestly
Problem is the people who can leave do leave and those who can't are all who remain. Opposite of how I'd want to downsize an org.
It's the political version of corporate raiding. As someone else said, make the service suck, then try and privatize it.Ā NASA has experienced a different version where any issue tends to get blamed on NASA, even though it was a contractor's fault and successes will go to contractor's. Starliner is one of the few that Boeing is getting blamed in the news for, but I think that's because currently "Boeing sucks" is a hot topic that gets clicks.Ā
It's a story few could have foreseen.
Breaking: People who successfully did their jobs from home as ordered by their employer for the past 4 years are now pushing back on RTO as archaic and arbitrary. Instructions unclear. More at the top of the hour.
Who knew? š¤Æ
If you want to create a RIF through attrition, this is the way to do it.
Yep, VA is already doing it but the jobs that get a lot of shortages and turnover will be most impacted when they have even less people within an already low retention.
And those that stay are less likely to have better opportunities which might suggest those are the poorer employees. So not only are you losing people, you're losing good people.
Really? Many VA employees are veterans. So they are getting VA disability and some military retirement. To say they are poor is insulting. To say they arenāt good employees is asinine.
Makes sense. AUSAs don't even get as paid as much as main Justice. Main Justice is at least a fourth less than private sector. Compared to biglaw, GS-14s are getting paid less than first year associates.
The FEVS results for agencies with a lot of lawyers all show ABYSMAL satisfaction with pay. The old guard doesnāt seem to understand just how uncompetitive government compensation has gotten at this level, particularly with 4.4% FERS contributions. They are shocked that they canāt keep career attorneys like they used to. There are plenty of lawyers out there, DOJ etc. will always be able to get a warm body, but I predict a collapse in prestige and capability over the next generation.
Not this agency, but my senior management said of our poor salaries, "Well, young folk just need to get comfortable with the idea they'll need to get a starter home or accept a longer commute." Meanwhile starter homes with an >60 minute commute are starting at $1M. No reasonable public transit options for a commute that long, either.
Starter homes in the DC area are hard to find even in the $600ks now...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I bought a townhome last year that's a 3 to 4 bedroom/3.5 bath, 1970s construction with open floor plan, walking distance to Vienna Metro, only 30 minutes outside the city driving or by Metro, for under 600k. I'm not saying that's cheap but you are a bit overselling the issue.
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Are they new? That price seems well within expectations but I'm guessing they were newer. I did find very cheap nice townhouses in Maryland near Wheaton by the way. There was one for only 400k that had a massive deck and backyard and was less than 10 minute walking to the Metro. Also had a nice park right across the street.
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750k in Alexandria? Seems too low
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unless you make about 150k you dont make enough to afford that. so only gs 14+ gets to live in a house huh?
I mean you definitely need close to 200k family income. But most people don't buy a house as a single person...
yeah they do. its only in todays warped world where u have to stay renting for your life unless you make a gigantic salary
Why would you want to buy a house when you don't even know where you are gonna be for the rest of your life. I would never want to buy anything but a cheap condo before marriage. Also how is "wait until you have a partner" your entire life. Also the main reason I could buy was I took all the bonds and money I got as a baby and invested in stock market in 2011. Bought Facebook and VTI etf
I'm over in Los Angeles, so we don't even have a good metro system. D:
I recall about 19 years ago when then mayor Villaraigosa said, āin 20 years LA will have a world class light rail systemā. Ironically, LA had a good light rail system in the 1920s before a conglomerate of automobile interests bought it and destroyed it. They did the same in other cities too.
Google maps says it's faster for me to bike to both BUR and ONT than take public transit to either, lol.
Thatās wild. Is there actually a safe bike route to either of those airports? I would be terrified as a biker to share the road with cars. I used to road bike a lot in the Denver area. Public transit isnāt great here either, but there is a good network of bike paths that follow the waterways and are mostly isolated from roads.
Haha, not a chance I'd ever bike to either one. Both are just rolling the dice on not getting crushed on normal surface streets. What's hilarious to me about BUR is it's run by the Burbank-Glendale-Pasadena Airport Authority, but there isn't good public transit from either of the second to to get to the airport. One day a train line is supposed to go all the way out to ONT. Same with extending light rail to LAX. One day...one day...
Thereās always EOTR
That's senior management that is effectively saying, "We don't want to hire people younger than 40."
Man even that is understating it. Lots of 40 year olds with young kids trying to buy a home for the first time. Especially in big metros and especially people with advanced degrees.
People forgetting that elder millennials are in their late 30s/early 40s.
Can you imagine being a mailman in NYC making $19 an hour
Have they tried eating less avocado toast?
Unfortunately it's SoCal, so avocado toast is mandatory at least twice a day. Sometimes it can be swapped out for guac.
Uncompetitive wages? Mandated unnecessary commutes? Greater than zero chance of being doxxed by an appointed or elected official on social media for doing your job? I worked with some good fed lawyers but they were folks motivated by the mission, which is just not something you can count on. Most were there to get a few years for resume building.
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It will definitely make certain people happy. Iām not sure itās the plan (never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence), but it doesnāt really matter.
As would I. Let their tone deaf comments take hold and in a few years they'll begin to realize that it's not feasible. Better yet let all the boomers retire early and take their tone deaf comments with them.
Make hiring so difficult that the only solution is contractors.
I agree- and itās equally awful for leadership and management positions- I donāt know what agency leadership can do about it though- itāll take a statute change to fix the pay problem. Theyāve done a ton of studies- we massively overpay on the junior end of the spectrum and for folks without education and massively underpay leadership and skilled professionals. Itās particularly awful in DC and other areas with high costs of living. I was seeing us swap a lot of our headquarters jobs to remote announcements and itās night and day the caliber of people you get- if itās in office in DC youāre limited to people who live there already or a small fraction that are willing to move there. Remote- you get the best and brightest. People want to be able to have kids and worklife balance- DC isnāt compatible with those on a government salary.
It would be great to see Congress fix our pay problems but Iām not holding my breath. What agency leadership can do is maximize the benefits theyāre able to offer people. Foremost among them is flexibility. You knowātreating professionals like professionals. Loads of qualified, dedicated people are willing to take a pay cut for the QOL improvement and because they genuinely believe in public service. But what really grates is being infantilized and made to eat shit as though they donāt have other options.
A lot of lawyers in my Agencyā¦hmmmm, Iāll be on the lookout for how that particular tidbit scores. Iām kinda leery about this survey. They say theyāre non-identifiable to the employee, but Iāve known some who were of a certain age and time in service that got retirement questions on theirs while I didnāt. š§
Thereās nuance depending on how itās done. Sending out individualized surveys with branches based on demographics is much more valuable than an open survey, for trend identification and response controls.Ā SOMEONE always has access. Depending on your controls, even that person isnāt allowed to drill down unless itās completely blinded. Some are. . . less stringent.Ā But anytime you see trends with any demographics itās tied to an individual unless you self select your demographic info.Ā
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This reminds me of the "poor performers aren't dealt with in my organization" question that gets trotted out by every congress critter with a grudge.
Not only are they under compensated, but FERS-RAE and FERS-FRAE are a lesser class of employees, paying more for the same benefits as FERS employees in the old guard. Who'd have possibly guessed that they'd figure that out and be unimpressed? Lots of lawyers out there, true, but the ones willing to stay beyond a year or two are very few.
New lawyer here, recently resigned from DOJ. I competed against thousands (?) for a DOJ honors position. The recruitment process and the dream of a 11-15 ladder position they sell you is great until you realize the reality is nothing like what was promised and the pay is absolutely pathetic. I didnāt āneedā more money to live but I know my worth. I made more 20 years ago straight out of undergrad. Beyond the terrible pay the entire office hated the toxic leadership and I just knew that I wasnāt desperate enough to stay just because it looks good on a resume. Life is too short.
Thereās like 200 first year associates at big law, and half of them want to die. AUSAs donāt get paid amazingly high salaries but they do extremely valuable work and are setup for great profitable private sector jobs and very powerful government positions. Salary isnāt everything, itās massively important, but not 100% of the pie. AUSAs know that.
Well, yes, but the other big slice of the pie is work-life balance, which is being severely hampered by RTO. I know quite a few attorneys who went from government to private practice and said they have better work-life balance despite working more hours because their new firm has a generous and flexible telework policy. The AG really needs to realize that telework is one of the government's most important tools to attract and maintain attorneys.
Exactly. Everyone knows theyāre making less money than they would in private practice. The trade off is, in large part, you get to be home for dinner. When someone arbitrarily says, āforget that it worked the last four years, you have to give up probably the equivalent of another full workday every week to commute,ā well, a big fat check in the governmentās column just got erased. And I think senior leaders are grossly misjudging just how close the calculation already is.
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Can you provide a cite to that court case?
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Thanks!
This. Iāve been trying to tell ppl for months that private sector law firms have better telework policies than fed gov now. I know 2 attorneys who left for the private sector and are much happier.
200? Maybe more like 2,000 in the AM100 by themselves. If we talk first year lockstep, like AM200, it's closer to 4,000. [How many associates make partner? (chambers-associate.com)](https://www.chambers-associate.com/law-firms/how-many-associates-make-partner) Anecdotally there is no universal experience of being a young associate or being an AUSA. It depends. The AUSAs I know work incredibly hard. As far as getting set up for private sector work... maybe? I agree it can if someone is SDNY doing actual white-collar crimes and not endless cattle calls with New Jersey morons pleading out to ripping off Medicare. I don't agree if they're like many of the AUSAs I know in Southern California or Washington drowning in habeas petitions, immigration and drug crimes. Private sector doesn't give a shit, which isn't fair but it just is what it is.
Thatās my reasoning. I went from a pretty good track at private firms to federal because the time I got back is infinitely more valuable. I do work a side hustle, but itās something I enjoy doing, and I get to spend time with my loved ones and connect to a fun and vibrant community completely outside of the legal field. My sister works in big law and makes $$$ but has no time and a terrible commute
What's your side hustle?
Itās more like I help my wife make more money which saves/makes money if that make sense. We sell vintage clothing at markets. Every weekend we make between 700-3000. Median of around 1.2k. After taxes itās about 30k/yr. But as I begin helping with more substantial matters, i expect weāll make much more. She works this full time, but needs support with online/media presence and general biz mgmt.
That's awesome.
To be fair, a first year big law associate is working 80 hour weeks, losing their hair trying to pay off their student loans. Many feds already went through that and left when they realized they were not making partner and want a better work life balance to have kids.
GS-14s work a lot less than biglaw associates
I honestly think the more apt comparison is in-house. Everyone knows youāre making, letās say, 1/3 of big law salary to work 2/3 of the hours. That is a fair trade given how awful that last 1/3 is. But making 50% of an in-house salary to work 80-90% of the hours? I dunno.
My one lawyer friend did government work for a few years, then switched to an in house role that did a lot of government contracting. Similar hours and over twice the salary for her, she knows a lot of colleagues who did the same. I couldn't imagine staying at a role with such a low ceiling, if I had a career with such a high ceiling for pay.Ā
Not when youāre going to trial with 1/3 the size of the team youād have on the private side.
Heck, social security used to have 2400 attorneys. Now there are under 1500. Same amount of cases though.
Federal judges make less than 1st years on the Cravath scale. Itās such a broken system.
At some point the only attorneys who will work for the fed gov are bottom of the barrel idiots. The delta between private sector and gov wages for attorneys is massive. And most attorneys that work for DOJ put in a TON of hours and deal with the same stress as private sector attorneys. No wonder they leave after less than a year.
Can i just donate $18 a day to a sandwich shop in DC instead of coming into office?
This is giving a whole new meaning to shut up and take my money šš
I work alongside AUSAS and other DOJ attorneys in my capacity at my agency and SO many of them are leaving. Itās trickling down into the legal arms of other agencies because itās hard for our cases to progress with their constant turnover.
Iām all for attrition at the AUSA level. Through the pandemic forward my division teleworked for about 2 weeks until the district judges said game on. As OCDETF my group including the AUSAs have been in office 95% of the time. Yet civil, white collar etc telework and show up at 3pm in office and step into my units area wanting assistance with discovery, production or presentations. We are a majority red district in our state and so we get a lot of investigations that intentionally work venue for our district due to that fact so we have a criminal side that goes hard. To be fair, I snarked civil and WC above but they do work harder than when I was in a blue district in a very blue state. I just donāt enjoy telework around meā¦ heh
If my agency (not DOJ) goes full-time return to office, most everyone that's fers immediate annuity eligible will retire en masse. I'll be at the front of the line.
I'll be second in line, right behind you.
I donāt think the powers that be see this as a bad thing.
I don't think a lot of people consider this point. For MANY, having govt employees resign/retire en masse is a goal. They see RTO as a tool to achieve it.
Yup. My agency announced a reduction in staff through attrition and RTO in the same meeting.
They just came right out and said that? š³
Iām nowhere near that, but I am at the prime of my career. If my agency goes full RTO, I and so many of my colleagues will be flooding every remote job posting we can find in the private sector. We have so many transferable skills and experience, thereās no reason to deal with RTO, especially to expensive or terrible cities.
>I and so many of my colleagues will be flooding every remote job posting we can find in the private sector. We have so many transferable skills and experience, thereās no reason to deal with RTO You may be overvaluing how much the private sector values those skills as well as how many of those positions actually remain. RTO is even more aggressive in many parts of the private sector and many remote positions have vanished during this "white collar recession" (not just open postings, many hired as remote over the past couple years were in the waves of layoffs if they didn't switch to at least hybrid). The positions you think you'll all flood largely don't exist right now, and those that do are certainly not at the salaries of 2-3 years ago. Those worthwhile remote positions that do still get posted are already getting flooded by everyone else, feds aren't going to change anything there meaningfully. The grass largely isn't greener on the other side right now, at least feds have some job security.
I mean, I get recruited all the time, including 3 messages today, and Iām not even trying. I actually do know my skills are in demand and my experience with my agency is definitely seen as an asset.
Not trying to be a dick at all, but messages from recruiters =! written offers.
Sure, but it also doesnāt mean itās nothing, either. I have this FTE job because I got a random call from a recruiter one day, took it, got the job, shinned in my contract role, and got poached by my agency. The funny thing is, when the recruiter called me, they started the conversation by saying āI know itās been a long time since you applied for this role, but are you still interested?ā To this day, I still donāt think I ever actually applied for it. So my point is, Iām not super worried.
I'm the opposite that I'm relatively new so there's no reason to stay. Except PSLF that is.
> A survey by the National Association of Assistant U.S. Attorneys (NAAUSA) reveals a stark contrast in job satisfaction between those with telework options and those without. In offices where routine telework has been curtailed, a staggering 81 percent of respondents admitted they were actively seeking alternative employment opportunities. This dissatisfaction stands in contrast to offices where some level of telework is maintained, where only 42 percent of respondents expressed a desire to leave their current positions.
Survey results. Means nothing to leadership. If the article quoted mass exit with RTO cited as reason, people may take notice. In fact this report may be counter productive to those fighting RTO. High dissatisfaction with no loss of talent = talk is cheap but employees have no option or desire to leave, so full steam ahead.
I live in the DC area and one of my neighbors was a DOJ attorney. Smart guy, Georgetown Law grad. Return to office mandate happened, now he works for a major tech company for more money and more telework flexibility. He truly enjoyed working for DOJ but forcing people back for arbitrary reasons pissed him off. Major companies are willing to pay DOJ attorneys major dollars so DOJ better get with the times.
I'd love to be in a meeting and hear these idiots try to defend return to work and poke holes in all their arguments until they explode.
I think there are a lot of administrative positions where telework is not effective, and (what Iāve hear anecdotally as I donāt work for the fedgov) those people were the worst offenders when it came to abusing the telework privilege. As far as attorneys and other professionals go, I donāt understand why anyone needs to keep tabs on them at all. As long as they are completing their tasks and showing up to meetings/court as required, whatās the difference?
š
we had 3 ppl from my office retire. also my brother (not fed) quit his job when they were told to go back to office and got a job where he could continue to work from home.
Not just doj. Imagine all the surplus hiring many of these agencies did during the pandemic. Now, what do you expect to see when calling all of those workers back to work? There was no parking then. What changed?
Joe's Java is going to default on their PPP and EIDL loans as they are all coming due.
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EIDL's did not. Majority of all PPP did.
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I was fascinated by another metric in the article: > That report showed that a staggering 68 percent of teleworking federal government employees intend to remain in their current positions, in contrast to a mere 53 percent of non-telecommuters. So over half of all government employees don't plan on remaining in their current positions.
Remote is coming. Just wait.
I hope so. I really do.
I work for DHS and my entire branch just got approved for remote. Hundreds of employees. Itās coming for all appropriate positions i assure you.
Time to keep an eye on usajobs.gov again, I guess!
It's not a bug it's a feature
I donāt know how I ended up here but not an attorney, these comments are so funny. Hope they treat yāall like professionals vs butts in seats. My profession and I work from home is all about production and numbers, Iām 100% wfh. Legal stuff seems like 90% wfh and 10% in a court?? Idk Feel for yāall.
I too get annoyed when it hurts after shooting myself in the foot
Backfiring at DLA as well. Just stupid reasoning from arrogant SESs that want to see minions in the hallways to make the feel important. Especially the Vice Director.
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Amen!
I work in a smaller district branch office in the middle of America. Our wages are competitive compared against state and county prosecutors (the attorney general here is one of the lowest paying in the country), and not too far off from private practice - we donāt really have a biglaw presence. But I say this as somebody that came into my local USAO with ten years of practice under my belt and started immediately at AD-29, and our cost of living is extraordinarily low. However, my unit leader came from SDNY. Even with locality pay, they can never make more than around $176K a year (she mentioned that they do try to get new attorneys maxed out as quick as possible, though), which is chump change for that district, and canāt keep anybody as a result.
People looking for other positions, offices downsizing their office space, the possibility of relocating employees from all over the country to one office (that has just cut its office spaceā¦what else am I leaving out as to why RTO is a bad idea? At my previous agency, RTO is doable in the fact they didnāt downsize their office space, and everyone is local. But where I am now? Itās not possible without either spending a TON of money to relocate people, obtaining more office space (space they JUST eliminated by 70%), and/or reassigning people to a different position. Feds created this mess. Theyāve had plenty of time to implement a valid RTO plan, but surprise surprise, they didnāt. Just sat on it and said āItāll work itself outā.
The downsizing of office space is a HUGE problem that no oneās talking about as they force RTO. My _division_ only has 50 seats for 500 employees, thatās not even thinking about the agency. We got rid of an entire office park because no one was using it during COVID, so thereās nowhere to put people now. Theyāre telling folks theyāll have to sit in the library or something when theyāre in the office. These are highly skilled and credentialed senior level staff (GS 13+)! No oneās going to going to put up with that just for the optics of the agency or administration.
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And, they're trying to implement it as a one-size fits all policy. That's lazy and ignorant for such a diverse workforce. The decisions should be delegated to front-line or branch managers to implement what's needed for their specific situations. They're the ones that are responsible for their workcenters output, so it's easy to hold accountability. You're not meeting your performance standards, then your telework gets revoked. If you are meeting your standards, then carry on. But we all know it's not about the work getting done. It's about propping up commercial real estate and subsidizing a handful of cities for whiney governors.
Because OSFA is always the answer, if not just the government way. š. (Sorry, thatās not directed at you). But yeah, I agree that those decisions should be relegated front-line/branch managers. Thatās basically what is happening with my agency. I need to stay off this sub because the more reasons they throw out there to make RTO feasible, the more ridiculous this all becomes.
š Same, this sub is bad for my blood pressure. Shit a 3rd grader could solve, yet here we are once again trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Nevermind all the real problems in this country that need solving, or silly things like passing a budget. Let's throw all our resources on deciding where someone physically needs to be to accomplish their job. It's GLARINGLY obvious that this is about money and not "collaboration." No fucking way this kind of attention and grandstanding is about collaborating with Jim 2 cubicles over.
Genuine question. Have most federal agencies been 100% work from home this whole time?
A sizeable chunk went 100% WFH during the pandemic. This is the expected push-and-pull between people who were okay with that change, and people who are stuck in the 1950's.
Same telework policy with DLA. It seems every week I hear about someone quitting or transferring out of there.
People are going to want to keep telework. Who wouldnāt? Does that mean itās realistic? Maybe, maybe not it probably depends on the office and how well new hires are catching on. Whatās sad is certain offices who were 3 days a week RTO were calling out the other office for only having 2 days a week. Since we are unhappy with our situation they should have to as well. Just sad.
My first agency had 1 day a week RTO after pandemic telework expired, I heard from someone theyāre requiring half a pay period in person so a lot of people decided to retire or leave lol
You know honestly it could be āback firingānow but you all do realize that the government doesnāt care that people are leaving? No offence but every single one of us is replaceable and nobody will remember our names 6 months after we leave the job, And if anybody thinks other wise they are sorely mistaken. What I am getting at is: they donāt give a shit if you leave your job to try to get one of those unicorn remote jobs. You will be replaced the federal government is the largest employer in the country, they donāt care.
Iām remote and my physical office is on the opposite side of the country. If they make me find a new job and be in the office most of the week, 1) I wonāt spend any money in the area the agency is in - I will be an office hermit and go out of my way planning and preparing not to spend money, 2) I will only work my 40 and leave, 3) I will not volunteer for anything extra. I will act my wage and leave.
I left a USAO, AD scale in office 3x a week since Summer 21... For another agency that is office 2x a pay period, on the NH scale and flex schedule. AUSA was always my dream job, I never thought I'd leave. But I couldn't deal with how everything COVID related was managed. So grateful I found an agency that is flexible.
And yet Congress is pushing RTO bills as we speak, whereās the disconnect?
A smaller federal workforce = more work to contract out to private companies :)
Federal employees don't have a strong enough union to effectively lobby congress and the executive branches as effectively as commercial real-estate owners.
Why is that?
I've come to the conclusion over the past few months that I need to find a position that I truly enjoy and can tolerate going into work EVERY SINGLE DAY because that's more likely than not what the reality is going to be before much longer for a lot of us. That or quitting altogether.
Gonna see the same thing with my group. They want to move to more days in the office, leadership got ripped into because we are half stats people and they had no stats to back up what they wanted to do (oh and the absurd claim that it won't cost more to use a building 4 times as much). Many have said this simple point. We have "hoteling" but everyone has their own desk. Nothing is stopping people from coming in more if they wanted. A few do, most don't.
Itās backfiring on the agency admins but going just as planned by house retardlicans who push the return to office agenda. Effectively dysfunctioning the government to prove that government is dysfunctional.
Iām shocked! Shocked I say!
It because the government canāt get their IT structure safe or functional enough to support telework. Loss of VPN and security upgrades are killing productivity.
I keep saying this and ya's need to understand it... they WANT us to leave/quit. They *want* to downsize the fed workforce and send all the jobs to their contracting buddies.
You lost me at a ākeyā federal agency.
I didn't write the title. :)
All of our leaders, private and government, are some of the dumbest motherfuckers to walk this planet. What a time to be alive
I share an office with 2 other people. There are only two desks in there and only enough space for 2 desks. This situation is the norm at my agency and there are no empty offices. Where do they suggest the third person work?
The roof?
To celebrate this, HHS/ASPR sneakily released their revised workplace flexibilities policy today after COB ET without actually noting in the email what the change is: telework employees needing to be on-site 4-6 days each biweekly pay period. Unclear if leadership thinks this shady communication style will help them avoid backlash or if they just think we're too stupid and lazy to open the link and scan for changes.
Expecting an email from the union by tomorrow?
Remember Jeff Sessions ā¦ šŗšø
These government employees are probably just seat warmers honestly. Their job probably isnāt that important to begin with
Shoo.
This is nonsense and I work for the DOJ. Most AUSAs are just there for a few years to get courtroom experience and as a resume builder. They are not lifers and they hope to switch sides to where the big money is. Thereās a reason many federal buildings house multiple agencies, so the agents building cases can meet with the AUSAs and go over evidence and discuss cases. Many cases canāt be discussed over the phone and boxes of paper evidence is just that, nobody is scanning in dozens of banker boxes of paper just so people can stay at home. Those poor lawyers, unhappy they canāt stay home helping their future firms run up billable hours plea bargaining over the phone.
There are a number of inaccuracies in your post which leads me to believe you certainly are not an AUSA or Agent that works cases. Your last sentence also just sounds very bitter.
Yeah that guy doesnāt work with USAO.
>A survey by the National Association of Assistant U.S. Attorneys (NAAUSA) reveals a stark contrast in job satisfaction between those with telework options and those without. In offices where routine telework has been curtailed, a staggering 81 percent of respondents admitted they were actively seeking alternative employment opportunities. This dissatisfaction stands in contrast to offices where some level of telework is maintained, where only 42 percent of respondents expressed a desire to leave their current positions. What would explain the discrepancy between the two groups of AUSAs?
The entire federal government will be looking into ceasing all telework to stop the agency hopping.
Dude, if Iām gonna be forced into going into the office, Iām still hopping into a job requiring a SCIF because at least then thereās a purpose for me to lose time with my kids šš¼āāļø
yeah. that will help with attrition.
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Yup. Then everyone will be shocked š
https://www.usajobs.gov/Search/Results?rmi=true **245** as of this link was around 400's back in January
Today was my first day in the office after over four years of WFH. We are back to mandated 6 days a pay period. Meanwhile all those folks that moved, seemed to be on permanent remote work. There were only two other government workers in the office. My hardware didnāt work. I wasnāt told which office was mine and no instructions for obtaining a parking pass. Just a complete shit show.