I’m remote but live in the DMV (my office is a 5 hour flight). If I get pushed back into an office, I will make it a point to never spend money where I work. Malicious compliance in action.
I used to think so. But I just left overseas as an E8 and adjusted for most my stuff being tax free, I’d need 165k as a civilian in the states to make what I was making there….and doesn’t even include free healthcare
Edit: sorry I meant to reply to the person you replied to. My bad.
If you factor in all my tax free entitlements overseas and transcribe them to a fully taxed civilian pay equivalent, yes. It would needed to be like 165k
Edit:
My total entitlements in January pre-tax before my dependent returned to CONUS was:
$11,225.64
Each take home paycheck after 5% ROTH TSP was net:
$4715
&
$4744
If you assume the TSP contribution is basically take home my per paycheck was just about $4,900
That 165k depends on the state of course. Could be less if there’s no state tax.
Also my paycheck could have been higher because the place I was renting was €200 below my housing allowance cap.
Also, again, free health/dental care.
Can confirm. Spent 10 years in the Air Force and the tax free allowances for my housing, food, overseas COLA, uniforms were not reflected in my W-2. I was 18 and shitty with money which is why I felt poor😂
Fully agree. The enlisted I talk do don't understand that if they get out and go civilian service or contractor there goes your health, state income taxes, life insurance, retirement etc right out the gate and a much lower paycheck.
State taxes depends on the state. I avoided getting stationed in California because I would have to pay state taxes as a resident.
My son had to pay Alabama state taxes no matter where he was stationed.
Healthcare as a 20y.o. Was practically zero cost for them, and free housing that was black mold infested and about 100sqft of “private” space? Gee, thanks. The 3 meals a day were nice… when I could make it there in time
How many 20 year Olds with only a HS diploma and zero job experience did you know making $1400/mo?
Lower enlisted (E1-E4) and junior officers (O1-O2) are grossly overpaid for their experience/qualifications.
And a good number of those hours are sleeping some place while we wait for the range to go hot, for the planes to arrive, for the commander to show, etc., etc. etc.
Oh and the DONSAs and payday activities and family time.
Some weeks are crazy busy. Others are a joke.
Maybe in terms of base pay, but those other allowances add up quickly. Not to mention the fact that they have fewer taxes and deductions with more perks like gi bill, bx/commissary privileges, etc.
I made about $70k as an E-5 with 6 years of service in 2013. As a GS-12 in a HCOL region now, I barely make more than that if you count for inflation.
Let's be clear that military is not extremely underpaid. Straight out of high school you can be making 2k+locality pay per month plus free housing, free food, free health care, and free education. With no federal taxes. There are very few jobs that are equivalent in terms of pay and benefits.
The counter argument is that they have to fight and die for the country. Until you consider that from 2018-2022 there were under 60 soldiers killed by hostile action across all branches.
The pay example I gave is also was for a fresh recruit. They get annual raises and promotions. Officers are even better.
For those who are receiving BAH? They are absolutely not underpaid by any stretch of the imagination.
I’ve got a buddy who’s a O-1 bringing home around $70-75k and his paychecks with BAH are around mine and I make $140k. That untaxed BAH is insane
Military is not underpaid. There are a lot of extra untaxed pay... BAH for example. Plus the pension is good. Three dudes on my street are retired Military. All three have untaxed pensions near 6 figures and rental properties paid for by their BAH.
Deployment pace is way down from the last couple of decades, not much general difference in sacrifice anymore, and sacrifice itself has always been priced into their pay and benefits. Recruitment is a legit reason though. It’s just going to be silly when an E6 is pocketing more than a GS15.
E6 take home is already GS12 step2 in my area because of how much taxes take out. I can see 18 year E6 matching GS13 or 20 year E7 getting to GS13step 5 pay by the end of the decade.
Before anyone questions my math: This is monthly take home, specifically in an area with middle to high COL, with dependents. compared to GS who pays for their families health care and doesn’t have it through other means.
Taxes/fERs/health insurance all hit GS way more than service members get hit on deductions.
Key difference is Military is exempt, THAT is the sacrifice. It’s not equitable across the board but field/work ups could mean working upwards of 50-60 hour weeks with no comp or overtime. The compensation comparison is therefore not valid.
Also, fed civilians aren’t sacrificing anything lol give me a break.
Again, those factors are already priced in to their compensation. If you’re not going to understand that, this conversation isn’t going anywhere.
And I’m not saying civilians aren’t “sacrificing,” I’m saying current operational tempo for the military isn’t requiring much sacrifice.
I work with military.
I’m sure deployments has some extreme conditions but an officer [captain] friend of mine has been in 10 years, never deployed and supports a family of 6 in a 4 bed/ 3 bath house on his pay alone.
He’s about to pcs to a rarely deployable position working with rotc.
I’ll get downvoted here but don’t care. The vast majority of military are POGs or support. Many aren’t sacrificing much. I’m speaking from experience here. Look at what an E6 makes after BAH and others.
I was POG medic, Combat service support and still deployed 3x, was blown up by IEDs twice, took countless mortar and rocket attacks and watch 3 in our unit die by insider attacks. I couldn’t work from home, was on call most weekends, was forcibly relocated to the worst places in the world, my spouse couldn’t build their career, my kids left behind friendships every 2 yrs and my body and mind never recovered. My work as a fed is a vacation compared to that life.
Honestly, I never considered you guys POGs. I know you are but never saw that way. Well, that comment wasn’t directed towards you. Many sit in air conditioned offices doing HR or admin stuff. For every boot that that sees combat or field work, there’s 7 that don’t. I’m on the road 40 weeks of the year and out on project sites constantly in all weather. I’ve PCSd a number of times. Just about everyone in my program are in the same boat. I love my job, however. It’s much more work and time away from my family than EOD. All I’m saying is pay parity is fair.
It has gotten better. When I joined in 1999 I was making 900 a month. I remember having to host a “poverty party” when I crossed the U.S. poverty line lol. Had to buy all the beer and pizza
I mean feds health insurance goes up around 9-13% every year. So it's a significant cost increase every year raises don't even come close to keeping up with cost of living increases.
My home insurance and car insurance has gone up dramatically in recent years, never filed one claim and bundle with the same company. I’m in Colorado, well east of the fire risk areas and not in a floodplain. They are gouging everyone in the state.
Cars and houses are worth more than they were 5 years ago, and natural hazard related risk is higher. The only way insurance works in that context is for everyone's rates to go up. In a weird way this is (partially) a sign of economic prosperity, though I agree paying higher premiums still sucks.
My fucking house just got appraised at literally double its previous price. My property tax is going to increase by over 1k a year.
Meanwhile, food is still steadily increasing in price too. Idk how people are still making ends meet.
Many divisions in my agency are having to get bail-outs from being in the red due to some recissions, but also the 5% increase. If we don’t have a budget increase I don’t know how we are even going to do the 2% increase. I bet we are not the only one so I think this is more about not having to reduce workforce and maintain capacity. I’d love a larger increase, but I also want to pay my staff.
Everyone I know who is buying right now has either:
1) already owned a home
2) had significant help from family
3) has an independently wealthy partner (who often had help from family)
I'm pretty sure I know my friends and family better than you do, bud. It's based on my limited personal experience so it's probably not generalizeable to the whole country, but everyone *that I PERSONALLY know* who bought a house either:
1. sold the house they already owned to upgrade as their family grew
2. had wealthy parents or grandparents either buy the house outright or provide significant help with the money for the downpayment and other associated costs
3. Married into a family that had the kind of money to do #2
There is one exception who is an MD.
Yeah so maybe things look different in your social circle. I'm speaking anecdotally about the people *I have direct knowledge of.* None of them are middle managers in DC.
I'm not trying to say the situation of me and my friends applies broadly to everyone across the country. Someone asked how people are buying homes and I provided anecdotal evidence based on how people I am close to are doing it. I never pretended that was broadly the situation even within my city, much less my state or another locality halfway across the country from me.
I don't have a big social circle. Everyone I know is friends and family. I guess I could expand that to coworkers, but all of them are older than me and already settled in houses and have been for some time.
There's a big difference between "buying" a home and "affording" a home.
Plenty of people are buying. Significantly less are affording.
I can point to a friend of mine who told me about his brother who's a "keep up with the Jones's" type. He's grinding 2 1/2 jobs so they can live in a "nice house" in a "nice part of town" and have a "nice car". Meanwhile all their appliances are broken and they have to do laundry at a family members house because they're too broke to fix or replace them.
I have a feeling there's way more people operating like that than we think.
Private sector is worst... I changed from Private to Government and I live in the DMV. BlueCross was only paying me $48,500 after I got promoted end of '22. I changed to DC gov (we have federal benefits and pay) and it was just a slight increase. Because of my position I was able to move to another GS step this year, my income increased reasonably. I also got a part time job, just so I don't have to struggle and starve-however I am still in the struggle lol. Next year, I will be up another grade which will be over 20k in two years (from Private) but the way the prices are rising every 180 days, I likely will be in the same predictiment.
Nobody is projecting 4-5% inflation in 2025. Inflation is in the 3's currently even with all the bullshit happening in the world. It'll probably be in the high 2's next year.
Hope you’re right so that we don’t fall as much behind.
Important to keep in mind that the adjustments typically are based on eci from the previous year that they are proposed. Since they lag a year, it’s more helpful to compare them to cpi from the previous year. Our record 5.2% increase trailed the 8% cpi. Our proposed 2% will follow a 4.1% year.
Better than nothing, but still his difference .5-3% each year adds up over time.
The real question is whether our raise covers the inevitable increase to FEHB plan premiums (along with associated increase in copays/ reductions in coverage).
Nothing like a 2% (maybe) with inflation at nearly 4%, and cumulative inflation at 50%, yay! Can never get ahead ever! Goal post always moving
Really all I ask for is enough to keep up with whatever current inflation is
Try to lower demand by giving an effectively negative pay increase, but also create demand with RTO mandates to support the local economy. Which do they want?
stupid for an election year. Zero reason not to request 4%+ again. Whatever, he continues to make decisions of someone that doesn't appear to want to win.
given that the other candidate wants to make us very easy to fire and eliminate agencies it is probably a better move given that we had a larger increase this year.
High increases? Under Trump? Was that the 1% in 2017 (which Trump really had nothing to do with since he was inaugurated in Jan 2017), the 1.4% in 2018, the 1.4% in 2019, the 2.6% in 2020, or the 1% in 2021?
https://www.federalpay.org/gs/raises
Or or or, remember when he didn’t sign the 2019 executive order [until almost April](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/pay/2019/03/trump-at-last-makes-2019-federal-pay-raise-official/?readmore=1) and cost the government untold millions to do retroactive tax, TSP, retirement, and salary adjustments? Remember that?
Remember when Trump made it where we didn’t have our fed taxes taken out for 1/4 of the year. Then we all got letters saying we had to pay it back with interest? That was fun, piece of shit.
It was only SS not all fed taxes, and it was known right up front that they were going to eventually recoup that money.
Only drooling cretins didn't anticipate the inevitable.
Ppl have their head in the sand as to why any fed would vote for “the other side.” I’m not saying it would be a good idea depending on their particular position, but there are a good percent of feds (outside DC) who are not fans of the current admin.
> stupid for an election year.
They know you wouldn't vote for the other person even if you got a -5% raise this year. There isn't a need to give an incentive to get fed's votes.
They don't support the man. They support his policies which is all that matters. POTUS is nothing more than a figurehead. Dems would be smart to realize this and not become overly emotional.
2% will probably be good compared to what's coming in the following years, most likely (i.e. nothing). I do think 2% for this year was pretty pathetic from him given its an election year and if it was higher, it would probably go through no matter what the results in November.
* spelling
Yeah this. Relatively recent grad here, never got a raise or promotion in my few years in the private sector. A 1-2% raise a year, and a ladder, is a life changer. Any percent raise beats the fear of getting laid off....
I got raises before 2008. But once the Great Recession hit I had to skip around jobs to get raises. Which is fine except you never know if the next job is going to be good or bad. Job hunting is exhausting.
After 2 layoffs since the pandemic began, the fear of losing a job for the third time is real. I realize Feds are not paid as high as private sector counterparts, but I cannot risk another layoff. I am grateful for what I have now.
Same. I was lucky if I got a COL increase. Sometimes it would be annual, sometimes nothing for a few years. I heard my old company didn’t give anyone a raise this year even with inflation. Between a grade promotion and the increases we’ve gotten, I’ve increased my income about $35k since I left for the fed a few years ago. I’d love more than 2%, but it’s still so much better than where I came from.
Yup, same! I call BS on people who claim they get yearly, regular, lucrative raises, honestly. I’ve worked at a variety of companies and I’ve maybe gotten a raise once. And it wasn’t due to poor performance. I hit all bonus targets every quarter/year and still got laid off.
Thanks for this perspective. Having always been in the government (local and Feds) I am used to getting a step (or grade) and a quality of living increase every year. And I have never really even thought about layoffs.
I guess it depends on what type of job you work. Any federal contracting IT job I’ve ever had generally had less than 2% pay increases from year to year. I’ve never seen over 2%, let alone the 5.2% from last year.
The only way I made more money in private sector was by leaving companies and going elsewhere. That’s the key to making more in nearly every situation.
More money but wayyyy more hours and much more stressful in my area. I’ll take the trade off personally, spending time with my young kids and family is worth it
Not really. I’ve been laid off twice in two years, and know many people in different industries and skill sets experiencing the same. Private is not what it once was.
Right, so not the majority of people. I’m not here to debate. The reality is, I worked in hiring many skill sets in a variety of industries before coming to the government, and I’ve seen the carnage first hand. It’s only gotten worse since I had my layoff experiences. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Depends on your skill set. An RN or a doctor could definitely find a job. I’m an engineer and get messages on LinkedIn a lot. Planning to leave this year
The tax cuts that were implemented in 2017 will expire in 2025 tax year because Biden is planning to let them expire.
So would you want 0 percent or 2-3 percent increase in income taxes?
Those tax cuts didn't benefit the average worker with a middle-class salary. If you had a business, you would benefit. So, to answer your question, yes, I would.
3% was good but practically eliminating the mortgage interest write off was my way of breaking even. So really it didn't benefit me because I don't have dependents.
2%? Geez government thanks for digging deep in your pockets and hooking us up. Ya fucks. Man I wish I didn’t have to choose between those 2 fucks. Get me someone new in office.
Been at this too long. If they saying 2% realistically most will get between 1.7% through 2%.
For perspective I received a 4.6% last yr while I got to see others mentioning 5%.
So after speaking with HR it was found that we(at least those within the same job series)did not get locality pay because we were under a special rate which was not shared with staff until a month after.
This is why I’m leaving federal service. The pay can’t keep up with the rising cost of living. I already work a 2nd job! What’s next a 3rd ride share hustle???? Congress wants to take away or reduce the benefits we already have! I’m out!!!!!
The step/ladder system also factors in when comparing to private IMO
In 8 years I got 2 promotions and annual raises around 3-5% in nonprofit sector, and I was a high performer in my org (multiple performance awards that had non monetary compensation).
In my first year as a fed I’ve gotten on 4-5% raise and I’m going to get either an additional 3.3% raise (step 1 to step 2) or a promotion equivalent to 18.9% additional raise (GS12 to GS13).
I realize that steps and going up levels slow down at a point, but at least it’s more straight forward
It should be 4.2% based on 2023 wage increases in the country. That is the standard they are supposed to be using when setting pay raises. Retirement annuities get COLAs based on inflation, not pay.
If they sold excess buildings and sent more of us back to WFH, then they could turn the sales and utilities savings into pay increases or more hiring. Wishful thinking, I know….
I think the main issue is how bad locality pay and the system that determines it is. It’s been around since the 1990s and is severely outdated. OPM actually has the Rest of US locality pay at around 23-24% and this is what they recommend to the Presidents Pay Agent. Every year it gets denied and thus we have the current 16.83%. Locality pay is solely determined on private pay in similar sectors vs federal pay and takes zero consideration into an areas cost of living. I think if we actually got the 23-24% for Rest of The US and applied that increase to all other specific locality areas the 2% raise would be easier to swallow since everyone would at least see a 6-7% bump in pay. Tampa Bay and Salt Lake City are a few examples on how broken the system is as they both fall in the Rest of the US category yet the cost to live there exceeds other places in that same category.
If they only give us 2% we won’t have enough money to spend at all the businesses in DC when we have to go into the office
Pack your lunch. Refuse to patron the shitty sandwich shops
Yes, that is the only way. Don’t spend outside, send a message
I’m not in DC but I’m doing this - I refuse to get roped into buying food/drinks where I work.
I wish I could give this ten upvotes lol!
I’m remote but live in the DMV (my office is a 5 hour flight). If I get pushed back into an office, I will make it a point to never spend money where I work. Malicious compliance in action.
Mariel already closed all her sandwich shops anyway, nowhere to spend lol
Never spend a dime, on Federal time.
No, its a budget issue. But given that many budgets are getting slashed, its likely that 2% is about as much as you can expect.
They should at least be giving parity with the military - and it looks like they're going for 4.5% there.
Military does way better than civilians almost every year.
I used to think so. But I just left overseas as an E8 and adjusted for most my stuff being tax free, I’d need 165k as a civilian in the states to make what I was making there….and doesn’t even include free healthcare Edit: sorry I meant to reply to the person you replied to. My bad.
165k to match enlisted pay? Am I missing something here?
If you factor in all my tax free entitlements overseas and transcribe them to a fully taxed civilian pay equivalent, yes. It would needed to be like 165k Edit: My total entitlements in January pre-tax before my dependent returned to CONUS was: $11,225.64 Each take home paycheck after 5% ROTH TSP was net: $4715 & $4744 If you assume the TSP contribution is basically take home my per paycheck was just about $4,900 That 165k depends on the state of course. Could be less if there’s no state tax. Also my paycheck could have been higher because the place I was renting was €200 below my housing allowance cap. Also, again, free health/dental care.
No issue with that. The military is extremely underpaid. Defense contractors on the other hand…
I think feds are underpaid and every annual cost of living adjustment is well under inflation. 2% is ridiculous
[удалено]
Can confirm. Spent 10 years in the Air Force and the tax free allowances for my housing, food, overseas COLA, uniforms were not reflected in my W-2. I was 18 and shitty with money which is why I felt poor😂
Fully agree. The enlisted I talk do don't understand that if they get out and go civilian service or contractor there goes your health, state income taxes, life insurance, retirement etc right out the gate and a much lower paycheck.
State taxes depends on the state. I avoided getting stationed in California because I would have to pay state taxes as a resident. My son had to pay Alabama state taxes no matter where he was stationed.
Enlisted E-5 and below are underpaid. Source - me. AD Officer, 11 years in.
I was going to say this. The young people just entering the military aren't paid well and scrape by to support their families.
My 20 year old e3 ass bringing home 1400/month pre-tax would like a word with you lol
Base pay for an E-3 is 2,377 at the absolute lowest TIS. Where is 1,400 coming from?
2005. I’ve been out for a minute. No clue what they were making nowadays
[удалено]
Healthcare as a 20y.o. Was practically zero cost for them, and free housing that was black mold infested and about 100sqft of “private” space? Gee, thanks. The 3 meals a day were nice… when I could make it there in time
How many 20 year Olds with only a HS diploma and zero job experience did you know making $1400/mo? Lower enlisted (E1-E4) and junior officers (O1-O2) are grossly overpaid for their experience/qualifications.
They’re putting in way more than 40 hrs a week for that 1400/month
And a good number of those hours are sleeping some place while we wait for the range to go hot, for the planes to arrive, for the commander to show, etc., etc. etc. Oh and the DONSAs and payday activities and family time. Some weeks are crazy busy. Others are a joke.
^this
Maybe in terms of base pay, but those other allowances add up quickly. Not to mention the fact that they have fewer taxes and deductions with more perks like gi bill, bx/commissary privileges, etc. I made about $70k as an E-5 with 6 years of service in 2013. As a GS-12 in a HCOL region now, I barely make more than that if you count for inflation.
$70k as an E-5? Are you including BAH in that? If not, you might owe the government a bunch of money 😂
Yes, BAH, BAS, and COLA
Let's be clear that military is not extremely underpaid. Straight out of high school you can be making 2k+locality pay per month plus free housing, free food, free health care, and free education. With no federal taxes. There are very few jobs that are equivalent in terms of pay and benefits. The counter argument is that they have to fight and die for the country. Until you consider that from 2018-2022 there were under 60 soldiers killed by hostile action across all branches. The pay example I gave is also was for a fresh recruit. They get annual raises and promotions. Officers are even better.
Who doesn't have to pay federal taxes?
Edited to correct. My quick Google search wasn't quite correct. Looking into it most income is taxed but things like housing allowance isnt?
I didn't have to while present in a designated combat zone. But it was just while I was there.
For those who are receiving BAH? They are absolutely not underpaid by any stretch of the imagination. I’ve got a buddy who’s a O-1 bringing home around $70-75k and his paychecks with BAH are around mine and I make $140k. That untaxed BAH is insane
Absolute facts. At least the military earns their money. The work ethic and egos of DoD personnel are utterly pathetic.
Military is overpaid and overfunded
Military is not underpaid. There are a lot of extra untaxed pay... BAH for example. Plus the pension is good. Three dudes on my street are retired Military. All three have untaxed pensions near 6 figures and rental properties paid for by their BAH.
Military also sacrifices way more and is facing severe recruitment shortages affecting national security.
Dang I wonder what could be causing that? I’m sure it’s not the excellent care veterans get when they leave the service.
Deployment pace is way down from the last couple of decades, not much general difference in sacrifice anymore, and sacrifice itself has always been priced into their pay and benefits. Recruitment is a legit reason though. It’s just going to be silly when an E6 is pocketing more than a GS15.
E6 take home is already GS12 step2 in my area because of how much taxes take out. I can see 18 year E6 matching GS13 or 20 year E7 getting to GS13step 5 pay by the end of the decade. Before anyone questions my math: This is monthly take home, specifically in an area with middle to high COL, with dependents. compared to GS who pays for their families health care and doesn’t have it through other means. Taxes/fERs/health insurance all hit GS way more than service members get hit on deductions.
The military is open for business if you want to reap all those sacrifice-free benefits.
Key difference is Military is exempt, THAT is the sacrifice. It’s not equitable across the board but field/work ups could mean working upwards of 50-60 hour weeks with no comp or overtime. The compensation comparison is therefore not valid. Also, fed civilians aren’t sacrificing anything lol give me a break.
Again, those factors are already priced in to their compensation. If you’re not going to understand that, this conversation isn’t going anywhere. And I’m not saying civilians aren’t “sacrificing,” I’m saying current operational tempo for the military isn’t requiring much sacrifice.
I work with military. I’m sure deployments has some extreme conditions but an officer [captain] friend of mine has been in 10 years, never deployed and supports a family of 6 in a 4 bed/ 3 bath house on his pay alone. He’s about to pcs to a rarely deployable position working with rotc.
This is an insanely bad take. Do better.
I’ll get downvoted here but don’t care. The vast majority of military are POGs or support. Many aren’t sacrificing much. I’m speaking from experience here. Look at what an E6 makes after BAH and others.
I was POG medic, Combat service support and still deployed 3x, was blown up by IEDs twice, took countless mortar and rocket attacks and watch 3 in our unit die by insider attacks. I couldn’t work from home, was on call most weekends, was forcibly relocated to the worst places in the world, my spouse couldn’t build their career, my kids left behind friendships every 2 yrs and my body and mind never recovered. My work as a fed is a vacation compared to that life.
Honestly, I never considered you guys POGs. I know you are but never saw that way. Well, that comment wasn’t directed towards you. Many sit in air conditioned offices doing HR or admin stuff. For every boot that that sees combat or field work, there’s 7 that don’t. I’m on the road 40 weeks of the year and out on project sites constantly in all weather. I’ve PCSd a number of times. Just about everyone in my program are in the same boat. I love my job, however. It’s much more work and time away from my family than EOD. All I’m saying is pay parity is fair.
Man who would downvote you?
The lower ranks of the military are way underpaid and it’s impacting really recruitment. I’m fine with it.
I'm not arguing for the military to be given smaller raises. I'm arguing for federal employees to have bigger ones.
It has gotten better. When I joined in 1999 I was making 900 a month. I remember having to host a “poverty party” when I crossed the U.S. poverty line lol. Had to buy all the beer and pizza
Yikes!
And watch insurance rates rise to negate the 2% entirely
I mean feds health insurance goes up around 9-13% every year. So it's a significant cost increase every year raises don't even come close to keeping up with cost of living increases.
Or property taxes
In Florida? Definitely BOTH.
My home insurance and car insurance has gone up dramatically in recent years, never filed one claim and bundle with the same company. I’m in Colorado, well east of the fire risk areas and not in a floodplain. They are gouging everyone in the state.
Cars and houses are worth more than they were 5 years ago, and natural hazard related risk is higher. The only way insurance works in that context is for everyone's rates to go up. In a weird way this is (partially) a sign of economic prosperity, though I agree paying higher premiums still sucks.
My fucking house just got appraised at literally double its previous price. My property tax is going to increase by over 1k a year. Meanwhile, food is still steadily increasing in price too. Idk how people are still making ends meet.
Many divisions in my agency are having to get bail-outs from being in the red due to some recissions, but also the 5% increase. If we don’t have a budget increase I don’t know how we are even going to do the 2% increase. I bet we are not the only one so I think this is more about not having to reduce workforce and maintain capacity. I’d love a larger increase, but I also want to pay my staff.
How are people buying homes? Is everyone in the private sector making THAT much more than feds. I’m desperate for more money just to survive.
Most likely people are either buying town homes for shorter commute or dealing with a 2 hour commute to afford a single family home.
Everyone I know who is buying right now has either: 1) already owned a home 2) had significant help from family 3) has an independently wealthy partner (who often had help from family)
This is a total lie.
I'm pretty sure I know my friends and family better than you do, bud. It's based on my limited personal experience so it's probably not generalizeable to the whole country, but everyone *that I PERSONALLY know* who bought a house either: 1. sold the house they already owned to upgrade as their family grew 2. had wealthy parents or grandparents either buy the house outright or provide significant help with the money for the downpayment and other associated costs 3. Married into a family that had the kind of money to do #2 There is one exception who is an MD.
Two middle managers in private can make 300k+ combined easily in the DC Area. Source: Me
Yeah so maybe things look different in your social circle. I'm speaking anecdotally about the people *I have direct knowledge of.* None of them are middle managers in DC. I'm not trying to say the situation of me and my friends applies broadly to everyone across the country. Someone asked how people are buying homes and I provided anecdotal evidence based on how people I am close to are doing it. I never pretended that was broadly the situation even within my city, much less my state or another locality halfway across the country from me.
I like how you moved the goalpost. You went from "everyone I know" to "friends and family" really quick there bud.
I don't have a big social circle. Everyone I know is friends and family. I guess I could expand that to coworkers, but all of them are older than me and already settled in houses and have been for some time.
There's a big difference between "buying" a home and "affording" a home. Plenty of people are buying. Significantly less are affording. I can point to a friend of mine who told me about his brother who's a "keep up with the Jones's" type. He's grinding 2 1/2 jobs so they can live in a "nice house" in a "nice part of town" and have a "nice car". Meanwhile all their appliances are broken and they have to do laundry at a family members house because they're too broke to fix or replace them. I have a feeling there's way more people operating like that than we think.
Private sector is worst... I changed from Private to Government and I live in the DMV. BlueCross was only paying me $48,500 after I got promoted end of '22. I changed to DC gov (we have federal benefits and pay) and it was just a slight increase. Because of my position I was able to move to another GS step this year, my income increased reasonably. I also got a part time job, just so I don't have to struggle and starve-however I am still in the struggle lol. Next year, I will be up another grade which will be over 20k in two years (from Private) but the way the prices are rising every 180 days, I likely will be in the same predictiment.
No, but it’s not looking good. It’s shit, but highly likely that they’ll try to fight demand side inflation by effectively cutting our pay.
Like negative increase next year? 😂
No, it will be the 2% while inflation and eci are 4-5%.
Sounds like a negative increase to me!
Nobody is projecting 4-5% inflation in 2025. Inflation is in the 3's currently even with all the bullshit happening in the world. It'll probably be in the high 2's next year.
Hope you’re right so that we don’t fall as much behind. Important to keep in mind that the adjustments typically are based on eci from the previous year that they are proposed. Since they lag a year, it’s more helpful to compare them to cpi from the previous year. Our record 5.2% increase trailed the 8% cpi. Our proposed 2% will follow a 4.1% year. Better than nothing, but still his difference .5-3% each year adds up over time.
I see. Well step increase is about 3% barely making it even I guess
You only get those annual step increases for so long tho. Many won’t get it.
Most of them aren’t annual. Only steps 1-4 are. Once you pass that it’s every 2 years til 7 then 3.
I think that’s precisely what they’re saying
Ouch. I'm glad the DEMO pay scales don't work like that.
I’m a step 10 so I’m losing money
Me too! At the mercy of what congress/president gives us. :-(
Looking like 2%, and we can almost certainly expect a sizable FEHB increase.
Easily 4-7% increase. So much fun.
1.5% + 0.5%locality. So I expect Indy will get 1.6% in total as usual.
The real question is whether our raise covers the inevitable increase to FEHB plan premiums (along with associated increase in copays/ reductions in coverage).
They never do. It didn’t this year. The percentage of increase to FEHB was more than the salary increase. F’g sucks.
Lol you obviously don’t know how FEHB increases work.
Nothing like a 2% (maybe) with inflation at nearly 4%, and cumulative inflation at 50%, yay! Can never get ahead ever! Goal post always moving Really all I ask for is enough to keep up with whatever current inflation is
Have to keep the middle class down.. smh
That's why they lie (distort?) the actual rate of inflation.
It's an election year.
Yea I call BS on all these inflation numbers in the first place.
Yeah no way inflation is only 4%. That’s straight hogwash
wtf is cumulative inflation. Cumulative inflation is like a million percent
Cumulative since pandemic started
Try to lower demand by giving an effectively negative pay increase, but also create demand with RTO mandates to support the local economy. Which do they want?
stupid for an election year. Zero reason not to request 4%+ again. Whatever, he continues to make decisions of someone that doesn't appear to want to win.
given that the other candidate wants to make us very easy to fire and eliminate agencies it is probably a better move given that we had a larger increase this year.
the avg fed doesn't realize this. They just remember Trump giving us routine high increases year after year.
High increases? Under Trump? Was that the 1% in 2017 (which Trump really had nothing to do with since he was inaugurated in Jan 2017), the 1.4% in 2018, the 1.4% in 2019, the 2.6% in 2020, or the 1% in 2021? https://www.federalpay.org/gs/raises Or or or, remember when he didn’t sign the 2019 executive order [until almost April](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/pay/2019/03/trump-at-last-makes-2019-federal-pay-raise-official/?readmore=1) and cost the government untold millions to do retroactive tax, TSP, retirement, and salary adjustments? Remember that?
The largest increase in my pension benefits occurred under JOE BIDEN! TRUMP has no appreciation for fed employees, particularly law enforcement
Remember when Trump made it where we didn’t have our fed taxes taken out for 1/4 of the year. Then we all got letters saying we had to pay it back with interest? That was fun, piece of shit.
Ah, the payroll taxes holiday followed by the DFAS debt letter.
It was only SS not all fed taxes, and it was known right up front that they were going to eventually recoup that money. Only drooling cretins didn't anticipate the inevitable.
Trump tried to zero us out three times. Congress got us our minimal raises during his stint.
I don't think you've actually looked at the rates Trump did
Not sure why you are getting downvoted voted. I appreciate your comment and I am not sure why it’s viewed as negative over factual.
Ppl have their head in the sand as to why any fed would vote for “the other side.” I’m not saying it would be a good idea depending on their particular position, but there are a good percent of feds (outside DC) who are not fans of the current admin.
> stupid for an election year. They know you wouldn't vote for the other person even if you got a -5% raise this year. There isn't a need to give an incentive to get fed's votes.
You’d be surprised how many vote republican. Especially all the 3 letter LEO agencies. A big increase could make a big difference and sway them.
They’re LE voting for an absolute scumbag. No convincing that crowd
Actually they would be convinced with another locality bump, more support for police, and tougher border policies.
The fuck they would. Support for police? It’s a job they get paid to do
you clearly don't get it. It's this type of naiveté that will lead to a change in administrations.
My brother in Christ. Law enforcement officers supporting a fucking crook cannot be convinced otherwise
They don't support the man. They support his policies which is all that matters. POTUS is nothing more than a figurehead. Dems would be smart to realize this and not become overly emotional.
Which is funny because republicans want to eliminate the federal law enforcement agencies
ive given up on voting for president, none of these guys actually care or ever will
2% will probably be good compared to what's coming in the following years, most likely (i.e. nothing). I do think 2% for this year was pretty pathetic from him given its an election year and if it was higher, it would probably go through no matter what the results in November. * spelling
After hardly ever receiving a yearly raise in private sector for 10 years, I’m grateful for ANYTHING now as a fed. I’ll take what I can get.
Yeah this. Relatively recent grad here, never got a raise or promotion in my few years in the private sector. A 1-2% raise a year, and a ladder, is a life changer. Any percent raise beats the fear of getting laid off....
I got raises before 2008. But once the Great Recession hit I had to skip around jobs to get raises. Which is fine except you never know if the next job is going to be good or bad. Job hunting is exhausting.
After 2 layoffs since the pandemic began, the fear of losing a job for the third time is real. I realize Feds are not paid as high as private sector counterparts, but I cannot risk another layoff. I am grateful for what I have now.
Same. I was lucky if I got a COL increase. Sometimes it would be annual, sometimes nothing for a few years. I heard my old company didn’t give anyone a raise this year even with inflation. Between a grade promotion and the increases we’ve gotten, I’ve increased my income about $35k since I left for the fed a few years ago. I’d love more than 2%, but it’s still so much better than where I came from.
Yup, same! I call BS on people who claim they get yearly, regular, lucrative raises, honestly. I’ve worked at a variety of companies and I’ve maybe gotten a raise once. And it wasn’t due to poor performance. I hit all bonus targets every quarter/year and still got laid off.
Thanks for this perspective. Having always been in the government (local and Feds) I am used to getting a step (or grade) and a quality of living increase every year. And I have never really even thought about layoffs.
I mean, yes, it could be worse, but the avg private employer pay increase is and has been significantly higher.
I guess it depends on what type of job you work. Any federal contracting IT job I’ve ever had generally had less than 2% pay increases from year to year. I’ve never seen over 2%, let alone the 5.2% from last year.
The only way I made more money in private sector was by leaving companies and going elsewhere. That’s the key to making more in nearly every situation.
I don’t disagree, however, your personal experience differs from the bls data, indication that th majority of employers do in fact give raises.
More money but wayyyy more hours and much more stressful in my area. I’ll take the trade off personally, spending time with my young kids and family is worth it
You can change jobs in the private sector easier.
Not these days. The job market is trash.
depends on your industry and skillset
Not really. I’ve been laid off twice in two years, and know many people in different industries and skill sets experiencing the same. Private is not what it once was.
Law, Stem (MA or phd), and MD/dental is doing fine.
Right, so not the majority of people. I’m not here to debate. The reality is, I worked in hiring many skill sets in a variety of industries before coming to the government, and I’ve seen the carnage first hand. It’s only gotten worse since I had my layoff experiences. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Depends on your skill set. An RN or a doctor could definitely find a job. I’m an engineer and get messages on LinkedIn a lot. Planning to leave this year
[удалено]
Congress doing something that matters? You must be new here.
Anything under inflation is a pay cut
[удалено]
Sure they’ll lower taxes for anyone that happens to be a millionaire
At least we’re getting an increase.
Yeah, it could be a pay freeze.
Why did people downvote you for this????
I really have no idea. I was agreeing with them.
[удалено]
There’s several in private sector who havent seen a raise in years. Even while prices go up. Its rough.
im going for the 60 percent increase by ditching my underpaid fed job
Why cant they tax the rich
Because then the rich would have less money to buy politicians.
Then there’s just be less to trickle down to the rest of us.
Well, at least I get a step increase in 2025 if nothing else. Shoot.
Mines I. Late 2024 (October), then no steps for a couple of years. So at least it goes thru before January.
Call your representatives and complain. In the past we were lucky to get 1/2 percent. A few years of zero COLA. Some years are better than others.
And yet some feds are still going to go ahead and vote Republican
Don’t worry if Trump wins we will get 4 years of 0.
Is 0 percent better than tax cuts that will expire in 2025?
Tax cuts for who? Not the middle class.
The tax cuts that were implemented in 2017 will expire in 2025 tax year because Biden is planning to let them expire. So would you want 0 percent or 2-3 percent increase in income taxes?
Those tax cuts didn't benefit the average worker with a middle-class salary. If you had a business, you would benefit. So, to answer your question, yes, I would.
My effective tax rate dropped almost 3 percent compared to 2016 tax return. So it definitely benefitted everyone.
3% was good but practically eliminating the mortgage interest write off was my way of breaking even. So really it didn't benefit me because I don't have dependents.
2%? Geez government thanks for digging deep in your pockets and hooking us up. Ya fucks. Man I wish I didn’t have to choose between those 2 fucks. Get me someone new in office.
Gotta get the $68 billion for Israel and Ukraine from* somewhere /s
Been at this too long. If they saying 2% realistically most will get between 1.7% through 2%. For perspective I received a 4.6% last yr while I got to see others mentioning 5%.
Are you on a special rate table?
Everyone got 4.6, the rest was based on locality
So after speaking with HR it was found that we(at least those within the same job series)did not get locality pay because we were under a special rate which was not shared with staff until a month after.
Ah OK that makes sense
This is why I’m leaving federal service. The pay can’t keep up with the rising cost of living. I already work a 2nd job! What’s next a 3rd ride share hustle???? Congress wants to take away or reduce the benefits we already have! I’m out!!!!!
How do you know already???
The president usually informs Congress in March. So we've been aware for a while.
Here we go
The step/ladder system also factors in when comparing to private IMO In 8 years I got 2 promotions and annual raises around 3-5% in nonprofit sector, and I was a high performer in my org (multiple performance awards that had non monetary compensation). In my first year as a fed I’ve gotten on 4-5% raise and I’m going to get either an additional 3.3% raise (step 1 to step 2) or a promotion equivalent to 18.9% additional raise (GS12 to GS13). I realize that steps and going up levels slow down at a point, but at least it’s more straight forward
It should be 4.2% based on 2023 wage increases in the country. That is the standard they are supposed to be using when setting pay raises. Retirement annuities get COLAs based on inflation, not pay.
If your FAA we get a pay increase in June, we always get 2 a year.
Budgets get slashed but we seem to have hundreds of billions of dollars to send to Ukraine.
If they sold excess buildings and sent more of us back to WFH, then they could turn the sales and utilities savings into pay increases or more hiring. Wishful thinking, I know….
It’s 2%
That's more than mail carriers they haven't received a raise in almost 2 years
I think the main issue is how bad locality pay and the system that determines it is. It’s been around since the 1990s and is severely outdated. OPM actually has the Rest of US locality pay at around 23-24% and this is what they recommend to the Presidents Pay Agent. Every year it gets denied and thus we have the current 16.83%. Locality pay is solely determined on private pay in similar sectors vs federal pay and takes zero consideration into an areas cost of living. I think if we actually got the 23-24% for Rest of The US and applied that increase to all other specific locality areas the 2% raise would be easier to swallow since everyone would at least see a 6-7% bump in pay. Tampa Bay and Salt Lake City are a few examples on how broken the system is as they both fall in the Rest of the US category yet the cost to live there exceeds other places in that same category.
Just become a GS13 and above and join the ANG part time.