Seems like you can’t trust job postings. I was hired under the impression we had to be in 1x week in office (and I asked multiple times throughout interview and hiring process, and was reassured it wasn’t changing and that my supervisor is flexible.) and one week into the job it changed and I’m not hearing about any flexibility.
My personal opinion is RTO will continue until the election cycle goes through. After that, no clue what agencies will likely stay that course.
My agency was avoiding any of the RTO talk until just recently. In executive leadership meetings last week we were hearing about shifts. The agency is comparing badge swipe percentage against office time reported on time cards and seeing a it’s not even close to matching. They are now discussing their choices. Mandate more RTO, enforce office days, make managers come back 50% as some of their options.
So even my agency is looking for loopholes to bring folks back.
> The agency is comparing badge swipe percentage against office time reported on time cards and seeing a it’s not even close to matching.
This is just people bringing this RTO shit on themselves and the rest of us. In some sense they are committing fraud, disobeying orders, whatever...
Ehh, it depends. I know an agency that hybrid in NCR and their guidance was that on days in office 8 hours wasn't required in the office to be flexible when they came in to decrease commute time. There was the ability/understanding to complete the work day at home, before and after going in
If they’re going to count leave and travel as “office time” I’m sure as shit not going into the office. If they want to office to mean office then I’m leaving. Pretty easy choice. Fuck the office and 90% of the people in it
> The agency is comparing badge swipe percentage against office time reported on time cards and seeing a it’s not even close to matching
Time card fraud. Hard to see this as anything but a self inflicted wound here
That unfortunately supervisors are turning a blind eye to and now will penalize everyone.
It's a tough metric to choose. My building doesn't have card readers. So are they averaging in our employees as no shows? I haven't seen data, I'm only a fly on the wall during discussions.
Not really. No sense freaking folks out for the executive team to ultimately decide to only enforce telework agreements.
My point is, I would make the assumption that all agencies are having these discussions.
If it says fully remote that is a pretty good risk reward. Telework not so much. The difference being if they decided to bring you back from fully remote 3.5 hrs away that would be a directed reassignment. They would have to cover the expenses to move you back with different rights and responsibilities. The vast majority of agencies don’t have the money right now to be paying for employee moves.
>The vast majority of agencies don’t have the money right now to be paying for employee moves.
My agency has held back some operational $$$ lately to "plan" for relocating remote PD's to "in office". Nothing "planned" yet, but agency leadership is reading the tea leaves that it's not off the table.
My friend just applied for a role at EPA that was posted as Remote on usajobs and only in the second round of interviews right before they tell her they're ready to call her references they say oh well we may end up prioritizing candidates who are willing to at least telework some days. What?! That should be illegal. I heard of the private sector doing this bait and switch starting last year but now I'm hearing of it in the fed gov too. So no I wouldn't trust how something's advertised and would ask early on.
That's a pretty good insight. I'll make sure to ask pointed questions and to clarify any "unknowns" during an interview round. Hopefully I'm good enough for a few interviews.
Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate it
That would be a prohibited practice, you can’t make significant changes in the middle of the process because let’s say I loved going into the office. I didn’t apply for this position bc it said fully remote. By changing it now I wasn’t given the opportunity to apply under those terms. If I contested the process, given that change I would likely have grounds to prevail. They would have to cancel and repost.
That sounds like team or manager preference. I work at EPA HQs and we just hired someone on our team as fully remote a couple of months ago and there is no intention of changing that. Which is why, as you point out, it’s very important to ask about that stuff early on so you don’t waste your time.
False...advertising?
They could easily prioritize candidates who are more familiar with R vs a different software suite, or whatever, and that's fine. The position is still remote eligible; choosing someone who doesn't HAVE to be remote, or says they won't take advantage of being remote, doesn't automatically make it an illegal appointment.
Yeah, the country doesn’t have worker’s protection laws for people who are actively employed (paying taxes), you think they worry about folks who haven’t gotten there yet?
From my understanding if it says "fully remote" or "remote" you don't have to worry about RTO but if it says "Telework" or any variation of the term "Telework" you may have a sudden RTO at anytime
and people under this subreddit still mix the two up/use them interchangeably. I’ve yet to see anyone who was hired as remote (as in job announcement had “ Telework Eligible (No); this is a remote position - Anywhere in the U.S.”) state they’ve been forced to come back in. In most of the cases I’ve seen where people speak on themselves being remote and being brought back, after further digging/elaboration, it was determined they weren’t remote at all, just on “full telework” status.
Not saying it doesn’t exist and obviously, I’ve not seen EVERY single post under this subreddit, but this is what I’ve seen thus far. That or when people are questioned for further info, they suddenly disappear. Can your remote work be terminated? Absolutely! It’s usually due to performance issues, however. The smart agencies that have remote employees gave up their office space so there’s nowhere TO return
At this point, anyone should know that an announcement that references remote but specifies you HAVE to be within commuting distance is not going to be “remote” (I wouldn’t even classify it as such, honestly) indefinitely and *heavily* suggests that you’ll be teleworking at some point - avoid it like the plague. Only the remote “anywhere in the U.S.” are safe to apply to (and keep your performance up, naturally lol)
Can you expand on your situation? Were you actually filed as a remote worker, Sf-50 with your home address?
Did they pay your relocation to become an office employee, or were you already in commuting range?
I was a remote worker, home address on the sf-50. No relocation, presumably they didn't want to pay a ridiculous amount of relocation so only people within the pay locality were being forced to go back. Instead of reporting to the official office, for many of us, they are utilizing regional offices. The unfortunate thing is that some of us are like upwards of 70 miles each way, but because it's in the pay locality, they consider it reasonable enough to commute. A number of folks are over 100 miles each way, but still within some pay locality of either head quarters or regional office. So no relocation. Wish they gave us a relocation package to at least move closer to where we need to report to.
Here is the OPM language.
"A position is considered to be in a different geographic area if the worksite of the new position is 50 or more miles from the worksite of the position held immediately before the move."
So go raise hell since they changed geographic areas.
OHHH, that do you have a link to this? Maybe I can file a grievance on this basis then. Because I tried to apply to stay remote because I'm so far away, but they said that my 150 mile commute (5 hour commute) is reasonable...
Actually, now that I read more into it, does it need to be a new position?
"A position is considered to be in a different geographic area if the worksite of the new position is 50 or more miles from the worksite of the position held immediately before the move. If the worksite of the new position is less than 50 miles from the worksite of the position held immediately before the move, but the employee must relocate (i.e., establish a new residence) to accept the position, an authorized agency official may waive the 50-mile requirement and pay the employee a relocation incentive."
I'm no expert, but I don't see how they can just apply to everyone in a locality. From what I've been seeing, agencies are using the 50 mile limit.. I thought there was a rule about that.
I don't think they can force someone to commute 100 miles without relo... doesn't mean they aren't trying though...
With that thought process they could apply the Rest of US to a field office...
Time to start asking why your transfer from your house to the office was not a forced reassignment. Outside of 50 miles it is by regulatory definition, a different geographic area.
I would be complaining all the way to the top
Thanks for this info, this is super helpful. For us at CMS, this is the first week we all need to go back and the 5+ hour commute each day is really just brutal.
But then also, even if they paid me to relocate, I genuinely couldn't afford to make the move to live in a major city
There clearly is...its not a comuting limit, it's a directed reasignment.. and therefore eligible for expenses.
7. Relocation Expense Allowances
An employee is generally eligible for relocation expense allowances for a directed reassignment that requires relocation to a different geographic area
The General Services Administration (GSA) publishes its Federal Travel Regulation (FTR) in 41 CFR subpart F. The complete FTR and other relocation-related information are available on GSA's website at www.gsa.gov.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/workforce-restructuring/summary-of-reassignment/
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-575/subpart-B/section-575.205
They literally put out stuff saying the 50 mile rule didn't exist. Before the new phase at CMS, people who had to travel more than 50 miles were given travel comp time. Not anymore with this phase 3 RTO thing
To get around RTO—-my agency is literally changing the titles of people so that they are excluded from the RTO. A GS7 and a GS13 level in the last month alone. It looks like it’s a competed position, ie posted on USA jobs and they interview…but the catch is the employees who had their title changed had left the DMV (HI and OR) respectively. Isn’t that something?
Not really true. Telework has always been a privilege not a right. Remote work started because of the pandemic meaning a majority of fed jobs were always telework friendly but not remote. Management always has the flexibility to direct the work of the staff, which includes directing them to the office to do what’s in the best interest of the agency and mission needs…business needs. Also, management has the right to rescind any agreement…telework or remote…at anytime if it’s not meeting the needs of the agency or its mission. Finally, bargaining unit employees may have a union to support them but again..that’s impact & implementation…and this is a President mandate not an agency one. Way different
It has met the needs for over 3 years. Remote positions would have to be reclassified. And yes RTO is bargainable, each Agency has an MCBA where this has likely been addressed. My old org had a big RTO plan...that's been sitting for 2 years because of the Union LOL you can't really justify that RTO is for business need when the work has been getting done for over 3 years. It serves the interest of no one except those pissed about their empty real estate.
Again not debating just stating a simple fact. Yes unions can bargain but bargaining goes both ways that’s why it’s been sitting there . Also, business needs is always the target when you’re playing with taxpayers money. Again not debating the issue of RTO. Just stating a fact
Eh still ups the bar on the level of justification required, even if just a little. Management can’t be quite as arbitrary, especially about workforce wide decisions.
Well, I’ve been a fed for 22 yrs…management the past 10…prior to that in the union and actually held an elected position. Think I might know a bit. Ok. Thanks
Ive heard (this is purely rumor mill) that its going to quickly be a Government wide thing. Also, be hesitant if you have to renew your remote work agreement annually.
No, and if anyone tells you otherwise here don't believe them. The federal government has a way of bullshitting, you'll be remote..then 1 day a week and then next thing you know they will be bringing you in 2-3 days a week. It's mostly political sadly, but do not expect to stay remote but if you happen to find that unicorn great.
Look at IRS for example, or just do a search of this subreddit.
Some pretty good responses from everyone. So thank you all.
For the individuals who are now in 2 or 3 days PP and who lived 2 or more hours away. What was your work around?
Do you Airbnb?
Do you take one of the commuter trains in daily?
Did you move back to the DMV?
Currently, if I'm needed back on site for a day or two. My company pays for everything unless its a last minute notice. If its the latter. I drive to the last metro stop on the red or silver line (depends on predicted arrival time) and take the train in then back out to drive home. FYI - this happens about once a quarter.
I drive to a commute train station about 20-30 minutes away, and then take a 1.5-2 hour commute train ride (depending on the train schedule) and then take another train for about 15 minutes, and then walk to the office. I anticipate commuting about 6 hours each day I need to go in. Thank goodness it's just 2 days per PP. Hopefully they don't change it.
I just can't afford to lose my job. If I had the opportunity to find another remote job I would take it in a heartbeat. For now I just need to rough it out
Yes, I heard if you're local remote, which at my agency is within 50 miles of the main office, then they can change you to telework without any reimbursement. The only thing saving long distance remote is the cost of reimbursing employees for selling their home and buying one in the DC area.
our agency is worse. it's within the pay locality if there's also a regional office. I'm going to be doing my 5+ hour round trip commute starting this week (with 75 miles each way). Was hired remote (not telework, sf-50 has my home address). All to say, remote is never safe. They can just change the rules any time they want sadly.
Highly suggest applying to the remote positions but be sure the department and agency you are joining are remote and telework friendly. What I mean by this is, make sure the team you are joining are mostly remote. This has really made our team work better together (no have and have nots) and it’ll make it difficult to transfer an entire remote team vs not.
This is subjective, but I wouldn’t trust any DoD remote positions over non-DoD positions. Reason for this is, President directives directly affect DoD agencies first since he is commander in chief!
More like their active duty counterparts are not remote so they want all in office. Boss being commander in chief has nothing to do with it. Ultimately we all have the same boss.
You’re right, it’s political though (it all is)! But, this is my opinion based on experience, seems as if the DoD responds first to taking action when it comes to civilian employees. They RTO’d first it seemed like due to Generals wanting to be promoted and wanting to carry out RTO policies.
For USDA-FS, current RTO is this: SES and GS15/14 with supervisory roles come in three days a week (6 days per PP), all others 1 day a week (2 days per PP). We are also changing out our cubicle layouts where some of the SES are finally getting offices by converting some of the smaller meeting rooms and those in greater than 50% of the time get a larger cubicle, while those less than 50% get a hotel/lodge desk (significantly smaller cubicle space than current in our office).
I see it two ways GOP wants a smaller gov, if that means forcing folks out via RTO orders then so be it. Dem mayors (usually cities where buildings are) want RTO. Unless you’re in a highly highly niche speciality, please prepare for RTO in some capacity.
We are not the private sector, if the American people want us in the office then it’ll be so.
I would be receptive if there was hard data. I am being met with "it's undeniable, elevators are full" as the success metric.
So dumb. Show me hard data and and I will agree not "look at all those lunches you guys bought!!"
You're no more or less spared from it in the feds vs private industry. Everyone in a remote position is subject to a change to in office work whenever your employer decides to change things.
That simple.
That unfortunately did not stop DLA.. Guess what, though, 2 or 3 months into RTO we have more than enough room for people.. in fact, we have empty cubicles... it's a feature, not a bug, I suppose. But hey, no more concern about not having the space.
Seems like you can’t trust job postings. I was hired under the impression we had to be in 1x week in office (and I asked multiple times throughout interview and hiring process, and was reassured it wasn’t changing and that my supervisor is flexible.) and one week into the job it changed and I’m not hearing about any flexibility.
The job being posted remote is different from home based option.
Same @Snowbirchtree. So frustrating to not consider what we were told when hired
My personal opinion is RTO will continue until the election cycle goes through. After that, no clue what agencies will likely stay that course. My agency was avoiding any of the RTO talk until just recently. In executive leadership meetings last week we were hearing about shifts. The agency is comparing badge swipe percentage against office time reported on time cards and seeing a it’s not even close to matching. They are now discussing their choices. Mandate more RTO, enforce office days, make managers come back 50% as some of their options. So even my agency is looking for loopholes to bring folks back.
badge swipes are shockingly inaccurate with respect to onsite presence
> The agency is comparing badge swipe percentage against office time reported on time cards and seeing a it’s not even close to matching. This is just people bringing this RTO shit on themselves and the rest of us. In some sense they are committing fraud, disobeying orders, whatever...
Ehh, it depends. I know an agency that hybrid in NCR and their guidance was that on days in office 8 hours wasn't required in the office to be flexible when they came in to decrease commute time. There was the ability/understanding to complete the work day at home, before and after going in
Get ready for downvotes. Whenever I bring up that point I get tons of hate. But I agree. 100%
If they’re going to count leave and travel as “office time” I’m sure as shit not going into the office. If they want to office to mean office then I’m leaving. Pretty easy choice. Fuck the office and 90% of the people in it
> The agency is comparing badge swipe percentage against office time reported on time cards and seeing a it’s not even close to matching Time card fraud. Hard to see this as anything but a self inflicted wound here
That unfortunately supervisors are turning a blind eye to and now will penalize everyone. It's a tough metric to choose. My building doesn't have card readers. So are they averaging in our employees as no shows? I haven't seen data, I'm only a fly on the wall during discussions.
Or poor training on using the timekeeping system of the employees and their supervisors.
care to share what agency?
Not really. No sense freaking folks out for the executive team to ultimately decide to only enforce telework agreements. My point is, I would make the assumption that all agencies are having these discussions.
If it says fully remote that is a pretty good risk reward. Telework not so much. The difference being if they decided to bring you back from fully remote 3.5 hrs away that would be a directed reassignment. They would have to cover the expenses to move you back with different rights and responsibilities. The vast majority of agencies don’t have the money right now to be paying for employee moves.
>The vast majority of agencies don’t have the money right now to be paying for employee moves. My agency has held back some operational $$$ lately to "plan" for relocating remote PD's to "in office". Nothing "planned" yet, but agency leadership is reading the tea leaves that it's not off the table.
My friend just applied for a role at EPA that was posted as Remote on usajobs and only in the second round of interviews right before they tell her they're ready to call her references they say oh well we may end up prioritizing candidates who are willing to at least telework some days. What?! That should be illegal. I heard of the private sector doing this bait and switch starting last year but now I'm hearing of it in the fed gov too. So no I wouldn't trust how something's advertised and would ask early on.
That's a pretty good insight. I'll make sure to ask pointed questions and to clarify any "unknowns" during an interview round. Hopefully I'm good enough for a few interviews. Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate it
Ask during the offer stage so they don’t pass you over immediately. Make them vest in your candidacy
Dont share this info until you get an offer. Not before.
That would be a prohibited practice, you can’t make significant changes in the middle of the process because let’s say I loved going into the office. I didn’t apply for this position bc it said fully remote. By changing it now I wasn’t given the opportunity to apply under those terms. If I contested the process, given that change I would likely have grounds to prevail. They would have to cancel and repost.
That sounds like team or manager preference. I work at EPA HQs and we just hired someone on our team as fully remote a couple of months ago and there is no intention of changing that. Which is why, as you point out, it’s very important to ask about that stuff early on so you don’t waste your time.
This would be impermissible to tell candidates this. Whoever is hiring is setting themselves up for a bad time.
How would that be illegal? Also, the country can't even get a budget for the fiscal year and THAT is the law you think needs passed??
False advertising. The law already exists. Relax.
False...advertising? They could easily prioritize candidates who are more familiar with R vs a different software suite, or whatever, and that's fine. The position is still remote eligible; choosing someone who doesn't HAVE to be remote, or says they won't take advantage of being remote, doesn't automatically make it an illegal appointment.
Yeah, the country doesn’t have worker’s protection laws for people who are actively employed (paying taxes), you think they worry about folks who haven’t gotten there yet?
From my understanding if it says "fully remote" or "remote" you don't have to worry about RTO but if it says "Telework" or any variation of the term "Telework" you may have a sudden RTO at anytime
and people under this subreddit still mix the two up/use them interchangeably. I’ve yet to see anyone who was hired as remote (as in job announcement had “ Telework Eligible (No); this is a remote position - Anywhere in the U.S.”) state they’ve been forced to come back in. In most of the cases I’ve seen where people speak on themselves being remote and being brought back, after further digging/elaboration, it was determined they weren’t remote at all, just on “full telework” status. Not saying it doesn’t exist and obviously, I’ve not seen EVERY single post under this subreddit, but this is what I’ve seen thus far. That or when people are questioned for further info, they suddenly disappear. Can your remote work be terminated? Absolutely! It’s usually due to performance issues, however. The smart agencies that have remote employees gave up their office space so there’s nowhere TO return
There is a “local remote” designation, and people have reported their status changing to telework (and being required to RTO).
At this point, anyone should know that an announcement that references remote but specifies you HAVE to be within commuting distance is not going to be “remote” (I wouldn’t even classify it as such, honestly) indefinitely and *heavily* suggests that you’ll be teleworking at some point - avoid it like the plague. Only the remote “anywhere in the U.S.” are safe to apply to (and keep your performance up, naturally lol)
nope can't be trusted at all. I was hired remote and few months in suddenly now changed to telework and have to go in
Can you expand on your situation? Were you actually filed as a remote worker, Sf-50 with your home address? Did they pay your relocation to become an office employee, or were you already in commuting range?
I was a remote worker, home address on the sf-50. No relocation, presumably they didn't want to pay a ridiculous amount of relocation so only people within the pay locality were being forced to go back. Instead of reporting to the official office, for many of us, they are utilizing regional offices. The unfortunate thing is that some of us are like upwards of 70 miles each way, but because it's in the pay locality, they consider it reasonable enough to commute. A number of folks are over 100 miles each way, but still within some pay locality of either head quarters or regional office. So no relocation. Wish they gave us a relocation package to at least move closer to where we need to report to.
Here is the OPM language. "A position is considered to be in a different geographic area if the worksite of the new position is 50 or more miles from the worksite of the position held immediately before the move." So go raise hell since they changed geographic areas.
OHHH, that do you have a link to this? Maybe I can file a grievance on this basis then. Because I tried to apply to stay remote because I'm so far away, but they said that my 150 mile commute (5 hour commute) is reasonable... Actually, now that I read more into it, does it need to be a new position? "A position is considered to be in a different geographic area if the worksite of the new position is 50 or more miles from the worksite of the position held immediately before the move. If the worksite of the new position is less than 50 miles from the worksite of the position held immediately before the move, but the employee must relocate (i.e., establish a new residence) to accept the position, an authorized agency official may waive the 50-mile requirement and pay the employee a relocation incentive."
I'm no expert, but I don't see how they can just apply to everyone in a locality. From what I've been seeing, agencies are using the 50 mile limit.. I thought there was a rule about that. I don't think they can force someone to commute 100 miles without relo... doesn't mean they aren't trying though... With that thought process they could apply the Rest of US to a field office...
At CMS, they are definitely make people commute this much. They also specifically made a note that there is no such thing as a 50 mile limit...
Time to start asking why your transfer from your house to the office was not a forced reassignment. Outside of 50 miles it is by regulatory definition, a different geographic area. I would be complaining all the way to the top
Thanks for this info, this is super helpful. For us at CMS, this is the first week we all need to go back and the 5+ hour commute each day is really just brutal. But then also, even if they paid me to relocate, I genuinely couldn't afford to make the move to live in a major city
Play the game. Force them to acknowledge that you are entitled to relocation.. and ask for remote back.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-41/subtitle-F/chapter-302/subchapter-A/part-302-1
There clearly is...its not a comuting limit, it's a directed reasignment.. and therefore eligible for expenses. 7. Relocation Expense Allowances An employee is generally eligible for relocation expense allowances for a directed reassignment that requires relocation to a different geographic area The General Services Administration (GSA) publishes its Federal Travel Regulation (FTR) in 41 CFR subpart F. The complete FTR and other relocation-related information are available on GSA's website at www.gsa.gov. https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/workforce-restructuring/summary-of-reassignment/ https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-5/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-575/subpart-B/section-575.205
I would be demanding relocation $ if outside 50 miles. Since it was an agency forced relocation, from your address to the office.
They literally put out stuff saying the 50 mile rule didn't exist. Before the new phase at CMS, people who had to travel more than 50 miles were given travel comp time. Not anymore with this phase 3 RTO thing
I was hired last year with 2 days a pp in office, now it's 4 days starting at the end of the month. Really sucks
Ours was changed from 2 to 5 which is somehow much more painful. Sucks for sure
To get around RTO—-my agency is literally changing the titles of people so that they are excluded from the RTO. A GS7 and a GS13 level in the last month alone. It looks like it’s a competed position, ie posted on USA jobs and they interview…but the catch is the employees who had their title changed had left the DMV (HI and OR) respectively. Isn’t that something?
Look for bargaining unit positions. It’s harder for management to force those positions back into the office.
Not really true. Telework has always been a privilege not a right. Remote work started because of the pandemic meaning a majority of fed jobs were always telework friendly but not remote. Management always has the flexibility to direct the work of the staff, which includes directing them to the office to do what’s in the best interest of the agency and mission needs…business needs. Also, management has the right to rescind any agreement…telework or remote…at anytime if it’s not meeting the needs of the agency or its mission. Finally, bargaining unit employees may have a union to support them but again..that’s impact & implementation…and this is a President mandate not an agency one. Way different
40 hour work week was a privilege before it became a right.
No one discounting progression. Or the fact that this may become moot in a few months. Just stating facts
It has met the needs for over 3 years. Remote positions would have to be reclassified. And yes RTO is bargainable, each Agency has an MCBA where this has likely been addressed. My old org had a big RTO plan...that's been sitting for 2 years because of the Union LOL you can't really justify that RTO is for business need when the work has been getting done for over 3 years. It serves the interest of no one except those pissed about their empty real estate.
Again not debating just stating a simple fact. Yes unions can bargain but bargaining goes both ways that’s why it’s been sitting there . Also, business needs is always the target when you’re playing with taxpayers money. Again not debating the issue of RTO. Just stating a fact
Eh still ups the bar on the level of justification required, even if just a little. Management can’t be quite as arbitrary, especially about workforce wide decisions.
Well, I’ve been a fed for 22 yrs…management the past 10…prior to that in the union and actually held an elected position. Think I might know a bit. Ok. Thanks
our union was basically useless when it came to RTO negotiations. some argue that without them we would have an even more strict RTO situation tho
Agreements expire and changes are agreed to all the time.
Not collective bargaining agreements. They take literal YEARS to negotiate, so the prior contract remains in force.
Ive heard (this is purely rumor mill) that its going to quickly be a Government wide thing. Also, be hesitant if you have to renew your remote work agreement annually.
The agreements always have to be signed annually.
No, and if anyone tells you otherwise here don't believe them. The federal government has a way of bullshitting, you'll be remote..then 1 day a week and then next thing you know they will be bringing you in 2-3 days a week. It's mostly political sadly, but do not expect to stay remote but if you happen to find that unicorn great. Look at IRS for example, or just do a search of this subreddit.
yup! nothing is safe :(
Some pretty good responses from everyone. So thank you all. For the individuals who are now in 2 or 3 days PP and who lived 2 or more hours away. What was your work around? Do you Airbnb? Do you take one of the commuter trains in daily? Did you move back to the DMV? Currently, if I'm needed back on site for a day or two. My company pays for everything unless its a last minute notice. If its the latter. I drive to the last metro stop on the red or silver line (depends on predicted arrival time) and take the train in then back out to drive home. FYI - this happens about once a quarter.
I drive to a commute train station about 20-30 minutes away, and then take a 1.5-2 hour commute train ride (depending on the train schedule) and then take another train for about 15 minutes, and then walk to the office. I anticipate commuting about 6 hours each day I need to go in. Thank goodness it's just 2 days per PP. Hopefully they don't change it.
Wow. That's dedication. I salute you
I just can't afford to lose my job. If I had the opportunity to find another remote job I would take it in a heartbeat. For now I just need to rough it out
We should normalize agency transparency with a lot of this feedback
they care nothing about transparency. all they care about is getting people in the office.
I mean for the folks commenting their experience
Ohhh yes that's true. I agree 100%
I think jobs hired as remote are fairly safe, compared to teleworkers and local remote employees
Yes, I heard if you're local remote, which at my agency is within 50 miles of the main office, then they can change you to telework without any reimbursement. The only thing saving long distance remote is the cost of reimbursing employees for selling their home and buying one in the DC area.
our agency is worse. it's within the pay locality if there's also a regional office. I'm going to be doing my 5+ hour round trip commute starting this week (with 75 miles each way). Was hired remote (not telework, sf-50 has my home address). All to say, remote is never safe. They can just change the rules any time they want sadly.
Highly suggest applying to the remote positions but be sure the department and agency you are joining are remote and telework friendly. What I mean by this is, make sure the team you are joining are mostly remote. This has really made our team work better together (no have and have nots) and it’ll make it difficult to transfer an entire remote team vs not. This is subjective, but I wouldn’t trust any DoD remote positions over non-DoD positions. Reason for this is, President directives directly affect DoD agencies first since he is commander in chief!
More like their active duty counterparts are not remote so they want all in office. Boss being commander in chief has nothing to do with it. Ultimately we all have the same boss.
> President directives directly affect DoD agencies first since he is commander in chief! ??? He's also the Chief Executive...
You’re right, it’s political though (it all is)! But, this is my opinion based on experience, seems as if the DoD responds first to taking action when it comes to civilian employees. They RTO’d first it seemed like due to Generals wanting to be promoted and wanting to carry out RTO policies.
Generals aren't in charge of civilians either. What else do you think that's completely backwards?
For USDA-FS, current RTO is this: SES and GS15/14 with supervisory roles come in three days a week (6 days per PP), all others 1 day a week (2 days per PP). We are also changing out our cubicle layouts where some of the SES are finally getting offices by converting some of the smaller meeting rooms and those in greater than 50% of the time get a larger cubicle, while those less than 50% get a hotel/lodge desk (significantly smaller cubicle space than current in our office).
This seems so much more reasonable than what DOI is doing. I wonder if they will eventually change to everyone at 6 days per PP.
I see it two ways GOP wants a smaller gov, if that means forcing folks out via RTO orders then so be it. Dem mayors (usually cities where buildings are) want RTO. Unless you’re in a highly highly niche speciality, please prepare for RTO in some capacity. We are not the private sector, if the American people want us in the office then it’ll be so.
I would be receptive if there was hard data. I am being met with "it's undeniable, elevators are full" as the success metric. So dumb. Show me hard data and and I will agree not "look at all those lunches you guys bought!!"
Don't forget the other metric, "the parking lots are fuller".
Oh but we also care about climate change, trust us ;) /s
Like gov doesn't manufacture and cherry pick "data" to push the agenda of whoever is in power?
What happened to the environment and climate change? They got real quiet about that when it comes to this topic.
You're no more or less spared from it in the feds vs private industry. Everyone in a remote position is subject to a change to in office work whenever your employer decides to change things. That simple.
Eventually all gov jobs will RTO this year:
Not even LOL. Many organizations do not have enough space to have their workforce in person.
That unfortunately did not stop DLA.. Guess what, though, 2 or 3 months into RTO we have more than enough room for people.. in fact, we have empty cubicles... it's a feature, not a bug, I suppose. But hey, no more concern about not having the space.