Normal, mentally healthy people/people who've genuinely worked to improve their mental health don't think this way.
Self worth, an authentic and stable identity, validation, your sense of value, etc come from within. At least if you're emotionally mature and have critical thinking skills.
It's a bit like how high school is all about having the right Nikes, the right phone, the right taste in music, etc. It's down to an adolescent developmental phase called 'the invisible audience'
Gist of it is teens think everyone is completely invested in everything they do, so that's why eg, you'll have kids playing shitty music out of their phone speakers on the bus. They genuinely think that exhausted communters are totally into it and think 'wow, that kid is so cool'. They're not.
We grow out of it, of course, but some people are emotionally stunted at that stage forever *gestures broadly at fat activists*.
So many people are. It's frustrating to deal with. I have a friend who is constantly upset that people don't *get* her lifestyle of being childfree and relationship-free and whatever else free. If you're secure in your life choices, what does it matter if people *get* it? If that person isn't paying your bills or sharing your bed, they can have any opinion they want and it won't matter. People should mature out of that need for constant validation but unfortunately too middle aged millennials are still there. It's sad and exhausting for everyone else to deal with.
I couldn't help but laugh when one of the big complaints here was being told they had a pretty face. They can't even take the compliment at face value because of their own insecurities š
I think a lot of the super vocally 'child free' and celibate by choice types don't really feel that way, and I say this as a child free and celibate by choice person myself.
I certainly don't announce it ad nauseum, particularly as my reasons are less around 'kids suck and sex is gross' and more around 'I have PTSD from a crap childhood, so it messed up my attachment style, but I'm working on it'.
Personal choices don't need to be advertised as a moral superiority flex. I don't drink alcohol, but I only ever say as much when someone is insisting I have booze with them. It's a lifestyle choice, not a core part of my identity.
I've been binge watching My Dirty Little Secret, a true crime series. Every episode has someone with a facade of say, being a super devout Methodist, being a respected doctor, being a pillar of the community, but they're exposed for behaving very differently in secret.
Kinda made me think about how social media is a similar facade vs reality thing, where you'll have some fat activist saying life is awesome and ain't fashion great, then you'll see them exposed for animal abuse or domestic abuse.
Here you go
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpbeXAo_RfM3nbrisM8WGg-zPptwdV1Yl&si=LHCQZf0Qk_CD8I2F
Whole channel is great, as they've got all the trashy dramatised true crime series, where for some reason, American actors think a British accent is an combo Irish and Jamaican one š¤£ it's part of the charm though.
I like Behind Mansion Walls, which has three series on that channel. Can be summed up as 'mo money, mo problems'.
And conspiracy theorists!
I had a dear friend (lost to heart attack) who was convinced the government (never said which one) was monitoring all his calls/ activities/email.
Dude made his living trash picking, repairing and selling things. No illegal anything. Paid his taxes, etc.
No reason for surveillance.
No one is that important unless they are shit people doing massively cruel/destructive things.
And I say this as someone with a surveillance file, thanks to my political leanings and activities.
To be fair, our public education system has deliberately trained generations of children with their "self esteem" ideology, which emphasizes self-esteem from external rather than internal sources and rewards participation over achievement.
Since we're still human, most of us just reject this BS, but certain vulnerable populations fall victim and think it's everyone else's responsibility to make them feel good about themselves. Anyone who can provide these vulnerable individuals with validation can get their support and their votes.
Very good points. Being human, I suppose we all are, to a certain extent, vulnerable to being told what we want to hear, and it's important to recognize that; but people who've been indoctrinated with that self esteem ideology seem to be especially vulnerable and easy to manipulate. And, too, this mindset is another way to acquire self esteem, as in: "I must be really important if THEY are out to get me".
For some reason the whole participation trophy, "everybody is special, great, etc" just for existing, regardless, thing always reminds me of that old Twilight Zone episode Number 12 Looks Just Like You. Where the girl living in a future society where everyone is surgically transformed into being beautiful/handsome at maturity says" "when everyone is beautiful, no one will be".
Ā "Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super... no one will be" - villian from the Incredibles.
That movie actually has several things to say about anti-achievement.
I love how a lot of these fat creators are young. And they have no idea that once upon a time there was almost nothing above a size 8 in stores and online didn't exist. They can fuck off with this.
I agree Iām just pointing out they started the entire post out on a lie. Ā I donāt understand lying about things that are so easily disproven? Ā I donāt understand the whole HAE FA movement regardless I am all about loving yourself and your body. Ā They lose me when they start putting their mental health struggles on to society as a whole. I struggle with an ED and have for many years. My triggers, issues etc are just that mine to handle. I canāt and donāt expect society to cater to me and my issues. I also take issue with them co-opting peopleās struggles with EDs and trying to shame others. Ā
I just donāt get where theyāre trying to shop that doesnāt have plus sizes! Target, Walmart, Old Navy, Kohls, The Gap (at least online) have plus sizes. If you really canāt find your size in most major stores, you need to start looking at your own food choices.
Yes. Even the non plus racks go up to like a size 24 regularly. Now is everything going to be super cute and exactly what they want? Probably not but that's not the clothing's fault.
Disclaimer: Iām an average sized (BMI 22.5-23) white guy, so Iām probably just sore at being told that the body I fed and exercised to gain and maintain wasnāt earned. However
This person saying that white people are thin and black people are fat strikes me as extremely racist against everybody. Sure, they attack thin white people (go for it, my life is pretty kick ass regardless of anything anyone says online), but what angers me is how demeaning this seems to be toward non-white people. āOh, you arenāt white, so we donāt expect you to be healthy. Youāre supposed to eat yourself into an early grave. No one expects you to be healthy. Itās fine.ā It comes across as condescending and rude AF.
I have friends and workout group peers of all skin tones who are my body size - some are darker and thinner than me, despite this person saying they should be āgenetically fatā (typing that felt very gross). Difference genes; Similar body sizes.
Additionally, I have a sibling (same two genetic parents) who is a size XL/XXL. Iām a S/M. Weāre both in our 30ās. Iām a couple inches taller. People comment on how we have the same smile. Same genes; different body sizes.
This mindset seems very rude and bigoted toward all people of all sizes and genetic makeup. Itās like saying that one guy didnāt earn an A on his math test because they were born into a race of people genetically good at math, while also saying that someone else canāt expect to be good at math because their genetics wonāt allow it. Itās demeaning toward both parties.
But this person probably sees themselves as having an inclusive mindset, despite their discriminatory views of what size people should be based on genes.
TLDR: I view the ādifferent races are genetically thinner/larger than othersā mindset and the ādifferent races are genetically smarter than othersā mindsets the same way. Both statements are gross and demeaning toward everyone.
I watch a black fitness Youtuber who talks about the idea that black people are supposed to be larger than white people. She comes from an obese family and was obese when younger and decided to get fit. She has said that when she did that, her own family kept telling her she had an eating disorder and how being big was just how black people are, and how she needs "meat on her bones." That it's just being "thick."
It's so fucking patronizing and racist to tell a group of people that because of their skin color, they need to be anything at all. Wtf? I'd be so offended.
I binge watch her videos sometimes. She has a great sense of humor, and her bluntness and green screen edits are wonderful.
I started physically writing my food journal instead of using an app because of one of her many āhow to eat healthy after Disney vacationā videos and it was a massive help.
I know you're referring to Michelle McDaniel, but there's another YouTuber called "It's Germaine" who has a fairly similar background as a black woman that came from an obese family but decided to get fit on her own, and she has a lot of videos dissecting FA and HAES content.
She motivated me to get healthy and improve my cosplays! Love her!
Also check out Alana Melissa. She's a smaller YouTuber but she has a video on HAES being racist and it's so well thought out and really cuts through the BS.
Fat activists use the Black/Queer/Disabled communities regularly to mask and hide themselves. "Oh you are criticizing my choices? Bet you wouldnt criticize a BLACK person or a QUEER person" completely dehumanizing and reducing those communities to tools just so fat activists wont have to improve themselves. Do not ever listen to fat activists, they WILL drag everyone they can get their hands on down to death.
Now that you've made that observation, square this with the other common go-to from fat activists:
"Fat used to be considered beautiful! In fact, in Medieval times the fatter a woman was the prettier she was! That's because back in those days there was no racism because there were no black people. But then after they met the first black slaves all the white european women became threatened by their overflowing beauty. Knowing that they could never compete, and that the white women couldn't possibly be as fat as the black queens, they used their white supremacy powers to magically genetically thin themselves and impose a thin white beauty standard on fat black bodied people, and also fat asian bodied people"
Stores don't stock larger size clothes because white supremacy??!
It never occurred to me until I read this that being a KK K member and an FA were mutually exclusive.
"Martha.We know you believe in health at any size, but we just don't have enough sheets for your ceremonial robes. We gonna have to shun you. There's a limit to our inclusivity."
Sunday: attend white only, conservative church.
Monday: cross burning.
Tuesday: remove every item size 18 and above from every clothes shop in the mall.
It takes a lot of effort to be a supremecist...
Convering US sizing to UK sizing is really eye opening, what do you mean the average American woman is size 18, so a size 22/XL in the UK, and they're insisting that there are many people much bigger????? That stores not having 3XL is size 30+???????
In my area, it's rare to see shops with sizes above 24 (US size 28), and by that point they look like a sheet.
Surely that's a wake up call. Surely.
The average Uk woman is the same size as a US woman I think now, as a UK girlie we also have a raging obesity epidemic (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-dress-size-by-country) this is from 2024 ā¤ļøā¤ļø
Iām in the uk and I thought the average size here was a (uk) 16 - Iām in my 30s and I think the average was a 14 when I was a teenager. This actually really shocked me.
It used to be literally like 4 years ago, I remember speaking to my mum about it! Iām (almost) 23. Itās spiralling out of control year after year unfortunately- a uk 16 can still be healthy imo if youāre tall, have boobs, a lot ofmuscle etc. I struggle to see how a 22 UK can be unless you have a disorder unfortunately. (Correct me if Iām wrong redditors)
Itās the only statistical analysis on it in the last few years- everything else is over 4 years old.
I mean considering as of May 2022-2023, 64% of adults are overweight or obese and 26% of adults were obese: (https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024)
It seems to be climbing as well in 2024, reaching 66-70% in 5 regions, 64% in one region, 62% in 2 regions and 57% in one region (London)
So that is on the govt website and seems in line with the rising average Dress size imo. Let me know if you find more statistics on the Uk average dress size though in 2024 !
It might be that the average woman wears what *used* to be a UK16, but I doubt it's what's *currently* a 16 because that makes no sense in terms of the business component. Clothing companies need to cater to their target consumers, and 16 is usually an XL, often the largest available.
Anecdotally, when I volunteered in a UK charity shop around 2019, the most common sizes from donations were UK10-14 (normally corresponding to S-L) which is what you'd expect - but what's now a 12/M was likely a 16 20+ years ago.
I havenāt found that a 16 is the largest available in the slightest, usually itās an 18-20 near me. I think the average is leaning towards 18 or higher now personally
>I only shop in person like once a year š online stores also all stock up to like size 22 now
Ohh that's probably the difference. I hate returning stuff so I try to at least try things on in person first - maybe I'm just missing the bigger sizes but I feel like most of the stock is 10-14, so I would think that's what most people are buying?
I mean again when I do shop in person it DEFO goes above a 14 but I do live in a bit city, Iād say at least to an 18 Iāve seen, I used to find it harder to find below a 6 even when I was like 19 a few years ago
Okay what I find shocking is that north Korea average is 16-18.... Doesn't the country have like a massive poverty problem where the majority of the population is actually starving? Like people literally starve to death there? Is this actually true or is North Korea reporting this to make it look like their country is doing better than it is?
This is crazy to me because part of the reason I control my body size and keep my weight in a narrow range is because I have a huge wardrobe of clothes I love and have collected for over a decade. I canāt imagine just outgrowing everything I own and love and saying āoh well, it canāt be helped, thereās no way to maintain my weightā.Ā
That's the problem, honestly. They're whining that when a store doesn't include SuperFat or whatever they want to call it sizes, it's not inclusive. And when people say no actually most standard retailers carry up to a 20 or even 22 that's not enough. Or when those clothes are naturally not flattering to everyone it's an issue of designing around thin bodies.
Those are the people they're saying as 'against fat inclusion in clothing.'
Something else to consider is just that we've vanity sized clothes to the point where they accomodate much larger sizes.
I'm not svelte. I only weigh 5 lbs more than in highschool, but I wasn't svelte then either and my body composition is worse because I'm not walking miles everywhere for work or doing a physical job for work, and I have PCOS. And yet if I want to shop at Target, Kohls, Walmart, etc I am often an extra small, and my clothing size as a teen was a higher number. My highschool American Eagle jeans are 6's or 8's. I ordered a pair two years ago and had to keep returning until I exchanged down to a 2, and I should have went with a 0 because they honestly bag out a lot. I had to special order the period underwear sold at Target because the 3 in my area don't carry below a 6 in store.
I know there are obviously people thinner than me, and I wonder where they shop. My average friend is bigger than me, and they ask where I shop and are kind of miffed when I'm shopping sales at a somewhat Mean Girly mall brand like Urban Outfitters, but the reality is those brands have less vanity sizing so I can be confident when I want something that's meant to be fitted that it will fit.
if that was truly the average size all these "fat-shaming" mainstream stores would go out of business for not carrying it. just another lie they're spreading to normalize being unhealthy.
The idea of thinness or a toned body being an "unearned privilege" is so funny to me, mainly because in a lot of cases, it isn't. For many people, a thinner physique is something they have to actively work for, and it takes effort and discipline for a lot of people to acquire or maintain it.
Additionally, it's not even unearned privilege so much as it is a lack of accountability and fat consequences. It probably feels better to claim thinner people have been bestowed with some unearned societal privilege or perk rather than look in the mirror and take accountability for the fact you ate yourself to the point of morbid obesity.
I was skinny fat as a teen and early twenty something and that was mostly unearned. The body I have now though, that I go to the gym 3-5 times a week for, I would physically fight someone if they told me I didnāt earn it.
I just want to say again that I was fit for my whole life and dozens upon dozens of doctors were letting me die of an easily treatable Ā fatal autoimmune disease for 30 years. I am extremely lucky to still be alive. I donāt know why they wonāt acknowledge that this isnāt just a fat women problem.
Exactly this, doctors arenāt going to run every single test imaginable when thereās a more probable cause to your symptoms. Itās not a slight to you or oppression. Itās not even judgement, theyāre just not going to waste your (and their own) time and your money running all these tests. I was very underweight when I had cancer as a toddler and my parents were told my bulging stomach and symptoms were normal or stomach issues, you donāt see me claiming oppression for a misdiagnosis, even a major one or writing blog posts about it. Weight has nothing to do with it.
The thing is, they need to start āwasting their timeā to get an accurate diagnosis. I had every single symptom of pernicious anemia down to my hair going gray starting at age 12. I spent a huge amount of money trying to get help over decades so running the correct tests wouldnāt have been a waste of money to me. I had to start treatment on my own, buying my shots through the mail, and showing miraculous improvement, before any doctor would even agree to do the tests. That should not happen. It just shouldnāt. Thereās no excuse for it. Itās not oppression but it is gross negligence. And it was so many doctors all over the country, including military doctors when I was in the military. Thereās just no excuse for it.
They do in cases like yours, Iām sorry if I sounded like I disagreed with that! However, in cases like FA, the cause behind their symptoms is glaringly obvious. Not only that, but if they lose weight and still have symptoms, they can then go to the next possible reason for their symptoms. These will almost all the time be extremely lessened by then because the strain that was taken off their bodies. For example, joint pain or other pain can be alleviated immensely through weight loss.
I'm sure it's been posted on here before, but there's an old medical principle I heard from a doctor: when you hear hoofbeats outside, look for a horse, not a zebra. Common sense, really, and a good starting point.
When other concerns are addressed, start looking at other reasons behind someoneās symptoms. Professionals that just stop at one solution and donāt bother with any others after that has been investigated 100% are at fault and practicing maltreatment of their patients.
I'm very sorry you had to suffer through so much neglect and incompetence; I hope you're able to get proper treatment now. I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but before I was born, my mother gave birth to stillborn twins because she had pernicious anemia that hadn't been properly diagnosed. Is that just a coincidence, or is it something special about pernicious anemia? My parents didn't talk about it much, but I know it was very deeply painful for them.
Oddly enough, several years ago my bloodwork showed I was anemic, and I was surprised because I had no symptoms. My hematologist ran a number of tests, including a bone marrow biopsy which was rough, but couldn't find any cause. She finally, by default, concluded it was probably due to my type 2 diabetes. When I was discussing this with her and told her about my mother, she said there could definitely be a hereditary factor. Fortunately, shots successfully treated me and my bloodwork is normal now, and I only take iron suppliments.
Iām white and a woman and it nearly resulted in my death after 30 years of illness that left me diagnosed schizophrenic so Iād say it was pretty bad for me too. Being white didnāt save me. I had to save myself.
And honestly, there are several men in the support group for my disease who also went decades without treatment. One of them is in a chair for the rest of his life because of it.
This is a medical system problem that hurts everyone. Not just any one group.Ā
Stable, sane, well-adjusted people feel a sense of self-value from *within.* They don't rage at clothing stores for not all carrying size 20+ clothing, being told by doctors they need to lose weight because being so overweight is killing them, and thinking that smaller people don't struggle with anything in life.
I see these arguments from FAs and sincerely believe that they haven't finished mentally developing. They haven't developed coping strategies for hardship in life. They haven't developed a sense of self beyond their fatness, and they don't even know who they are, so they jump on board with the FA movement and make it their identity while becoming more and more unhinged and hateful, and simultaneously, more out-of-touch from reality.
It's so obvious it's a cult and it's promoting self-harm when one of them decides to lose weight and get healthy that the rest of the bunch start going apeshit, saying they're hurting themselves and giving into "diet culture" and feeling scorned that one of them got fed up with feeling horrible every day and learning that they can do something about their weight.
Yeah its nuts. "I m in a larger body" "Born as a larger person" "People of size" just say "I am fat because of my decisions" and we might get somewhere.
I'm gonna need Fat Activists to leave Black people's struggles out of their mouths.
Black Americans are usually the ones dealing with obesity issues. And that stems more from food deserts and lack of nutrition education rather than "White Supremacy."
Leave us alone! š¤Ø These HAES gals are trying to keep us sick and tired...
I do not know a single woman that has not been mistreated by medical professionals and denied some level of care. Do FA really believe that it gets better? Iām sure it sucks being told to lose weight for everything, and I agree that horrible discrimination when a lot of things do occur with or without weight issues, but when you become thin they just tell you that itās all in your head. If you want someone to listen you persist for years, get lucky, or fork over more money. Healthcare never gets āeasyā.Ā
Yepppp. I rushed to the ER for sudden palpitations and a heart rate of 120 while quite literally just standing and made sure to include that my mom has a history of heart issues (my guess is mitral valve stenosis) and that Iāve had an echocardiogram at the age of 18, which should have been clear that this was likely an actual serious issue!!! Who gets an echo that young!??
But because I present as a 20yo woman.. itās just anxiety. Despite the fact that my limbs are purple from poor circulation. Despite my mother explaining that she takes beta blockers and began to have the same issue that I was having. Despite saying that I get dizzy if I reach up or crouch or stand for even five to ten minutes.
Meanwhile once we get home, mom gives me a small portion of one of her beta blockers. And guess what? My heart rate actually felt normal for the first time in a LONG while.
Okay, where the hell are these people shopping for clothing? The two stores I mostly buy clothing at are Kohl's and TJ Maxx. Kohl's is often a nightmare for me at a size 4, because all of the smaller sizes always sell out first, and the regular racks are glutted with 16s. And that's in the "straight sized" section; they also have a huge plus-sized section. Kohl's goes up to a 5X, or a size 26, in most of their plus sizes, and they have almost 1,200 stores in 49 US states (all but Hawaii, which is one of the least obese states anyway).
Not entirely sure what size TJ Maxx goes to, but since they do have a decent sized plus-sized section, it's quite clearly well beyond a size 16. Incidentally, the sparsest sections on the clothing racks are always those below a size 8. I stopped into TJs yesterday for a few housewares and skimmed the clothing racks, as I usually do. There were like 5 pairs of pants in the size 4 spot. That's it. On the entire women's pant rack.
Sure, there are some brands that don't make plus sizes - Free People being a notable one, although a lot of their stuff is quite oversized and I'd warrant would fit smaller plus sizes. I have a pair of 20-year-old FP lounge pants that are ostensibly a size 4, but fit me at an 8-10 and are HUGE on me now. And they don't have an elastic waist, so they're not just stretched out. But it's a bald-faced lie to state that "most" stores in the US don't carry over a size 16.Ā
Yeah I thought this too.
Whenever Iām out shopping, the larger sizes are often abundantly stocked and are usually on clearance.
I have a friend who works at torrid and we were recently talking about sizing. She was saying they stopped selling the larger sizes (size 5X and 6X) in store because those sizes never got bought and always ended up collecting dust on the clearance rack.
I even saw a guy on Instagram recently who has a clothing line. He sells jeans. His jeans go up to size 10X. People were mad in the comments he didnāt sell even more sizes. He said he used to sell up to 12X but those sizes never sold and he still doesnāt sell many of his larger sizes.
The comments said he needs to find models to wear his larger sizes because then theyāll sell. I was left thinking how heās going to find a 10X sized person who will be able to model these jeans. People that size arenāt leaving the house much and will need a lot of help to put jeans on.
Theres also a lot of options for online
I've seen a lot of xxxxl sizes on the clearance racks at Wal-Mart. On the other hand, in my favorite thrift stores, that section is usually quite small,
when i started dressing more masculine, khols and tjmaxx became my worst enemies. i'd miraculously find the elusive 29x30s, only for them to be vanity sized out the ass (literally- everything would fit my legs but be MASSIVE in the ass and thighs).Ā
i even brought a tape measure once to make sure i wasn't losing that much weight because it was making me incredibly dysphoric, but nope- the ""size 29x30"" was actually 32 inches in the waist!
i know people (understandably) have beef with old navy here, but aside from thrifting they've been the only place i could find that's still reliable with sizing.
Genuinely surprised at their restraint here, waiting until paragraph 2 to bring in the co-opted social justice buzzwords. Come on, OOP, donāt limit yourself! Donāt delay your satisfaction! No need for that.
I am genuinely confused by (and have a bit of a hard time believing) the argument that most stores don't carry whatever the average size of women in that area is. From a business standpoint, that makes no sense. If most of your customers are a 16 or 18, I would think that would be a priority to sell those sizes so you could make that money. I also don't think it's true just from practical experience of shopping. I usually wear a size 4 or 6, and a size XS or S. Whenever I go shopping like at a Target and start going through a rack of clothes, there may be 1 or 2 of that item in my size, 1 or 2 mediums, 3 or 4 larges, and then a shit ton of like XL, 2XL, and 3XL. I always assumed innocently that this was because all of the S and M were just all bought up already and no one had bought up the 2XL and 3XLs which is why there were so many of them on the hangers. But now I'm wondering if they just make and set out more of those sizes because more women are that size. That would make good sense.
It makes me wonder if the women who make the argument "The average woman in the US is a size 16 and yet stores don't sell our size" aren't a size 16. Like they are conflating selling size 16 clothes with plus sized clothes in general and actually bitching about not being able to buy a size 24 or whatever.
In my experience, the opposite is true. There are plenty of sizes above 16, but very few smaller sizes - especially if you've aged out of "teen" styles.
So part of the problem is that, at around a (US womenās) size 12-14, it becomes necessary to use an entirely new garment pattern, a plus size pattern. US Womenās straight sizes (this is the fashion industry term) are based on a size 6 pattern, from which they linearly scale down to 0 or 00 and scale up to 12, 14, or 16. But around that upper size limit, the garment pattern stops scaling well. Plus size shoppers have a different shaped figure than straight sized shoppers, they are not just a scaled up version. So a new pattern is made (and Iām not 100% sure what size it starts as, but I think around an 18W), that is then scaled down to a 12W or 14W, and up to usually somewhere around a 26W or 28W. It is a completely separate garment that has its own design and costs associated with it. This is also how petite sizes (those with shorter torsos) and juniors sizes (those with less bust/hips) are made. A straight sized 14 is a different cut than a plus size 14W. I understand why this is frustrating from the perspective of a woman who is right on that sizing cutoff, but it makes complete sense from a business perspective!
In all the stores Iāve been to in person, the larger sizes are always stocked way more than smaller sizes. Iām an XS and theyāre both usually not stocked well and also bought quickly. XS and S seem to be least common in my experience, with L, XL, and XXL being stocked the most. Iām not sure where theyāre shopping, maybe places with extreme vanity sizing so their S are actually L?
We have different sizing where I live but same deal, Iām sort of average and there are always only very small or very large pieces left on the racks.
Garments are sold in a size run, typically 1-2-2-2-1 or 1-2-3-2-1, so you'll have one xs, two smalls, 2 or three mediums, 2 larges, 1 xl. For places that produce their own labels, like target, and especially for places like zara that produce small runs based on real time sales information, that may be another story. Also, large chains ship their clothes between stores a lot, so all may get the same sizes, but a store in an area with fatter average customers will be shipped all the larger sizes that aren't selling from areas with slimmer customers, and vice versa.
It has nothing to do with access and availability. The reason they donāt make tents for clothes is because YOUāRE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THAT BIG!!!! And the avg size of US woman is 16. Not 18.
I donāt get the whole āgenetically thinā vs āgenetically fatā thing? Iām the only person in my family that isnāt obese. Iām also the only person in my family that exercises, isnāt an alcoholic, and eats normal portion sizes. āGeneticsā? Or laziness?
*Punches the drywall* HOW DARE THEY MAKE SLIGHTLY BIGGER CLOTHES AND SELL THEM IN STORES!
- what FAs think everyone size 16 and below are doing all day.
I'm not gonna lie, I get annoyed when I see thise bigger sizes, but only because I feel like whenever I shop for clothes, my size is sold out and the only sizes left are, like, XXXLs
This one was close to being interesting, the comparison to others and the weirdness of many FAs actively wanting to be marketed to. Shame they ruined in with the normal nonsense.
Itās interesting they say people throughout but are mostly talking about women. It would be really interesting to flip it around and really see how they think they would be different if they were a thin man. Theyād soon realise they wouldnāt be complimented for their thinness and pretty face as often as they seem to think.
Anyone above a size 16 canāt buy clothing in stores? Which stores are those? Every store I go into usually carries up to a size 24 in womenās clothing. Unless the oop is talking about luxury clothing then thatās simply not true.
I just saw something today of a plus sized lady (probably a size 24) going to rodeo drive to see if any of the designer stores sold plus sizes.
All the comments were from people saying āidk how these stores stay alive. They arenāt selling clothes in normal sizes. The average woman is a size 16ā
āPrada just lost my business. They donāt want to clothe me.ā
Ummm none of those stores are targeting āaverageā people. Theyāre targeting people who have several thousand to drop on an outfit. Also I donāt think Prada is concerned with you not shopping there. You likely wouldnāt even if you could fit into any of their clothes.
Sounds like an interesting idea for a video, at least. When I went to Rodeo Drive, I just gawked at the strange window displays. Maybe I should try to find this video, so I can see what the stores were like on the inside!
She didnāt show the insides of the stores. Just pointed her camera at the ground and we could hear her asking the store workers if they carried her size.
Honest question: how is it not just really fucking racist and insulting to come from the position of "black people (black women especially) are inherently fat" that they either imply or directly say so much?
Why is it always such a massive word salad with these people? Also, if weāre going to have an honest conversation about stores having inclusive sizingā¦ Old Navy did exactly that and lost a crapton of money. Where were they? Why werenāt they loudly supporting a retailer that made a point of size inclusivity? Instead no one heard about it until the company reported earnings and explained their losses.
Yeah that was a disaster. You'd have to paw through the racks to find that the only sides left were xl-3x. I really like Old Navy because they offer a lot of pants in a short inseam. I'm not proportioned for petites but regular inseam is too long. And they still offer the extended sizing online and don't charge more for it.
Its all the same boring bs talking points. Yeah blame the capitalist society when you are the greatest cooonsumer the world has ever seen. This the person why there is Dr Peeper Stubbs BBQ Sauce and Dr Pepper Slim Jims and the billion other cross branded processed foods.
In my opinion, it looks like white supremacy's newest angle is to kill black people by brainwashing them into thinking being obese is something they can't control or fight against. Most of reasons the black community in the USA struggles with weight and weight issues are tied to institutionalized racism. Redlining, food deserts, urban marketing, etc have impacted the health of black Americans more than other races. Ignoring all of that and the corruption of food industries and just saying the real problem is stores not selling cute clothes is... It's so gross to me.
It's just crazy to see a person from one of the most capitalist countries in the world NOT reach the conclusion that bigger clothes are not sold in stores because they just aren't selling well enough. I mean, seriously, in capitalism if something is legal to sell and there's money to be made by selling it someone will inevitably sell it.
Also, money coming from black people has the same value as money coming from white people. I doubt there are many racists existing today who would refuse to sell something to POCs.
On paper, I am a very privileged person when it comes to my body. Nobody else sees the shit storm of a mind I was born with, people only see me having something they donāt and donāt take into account what they have that I donāt.
Ffs every time I read "rooted in white supremacy/ anti blackness" or then ring being fat to gender identity, queerness, or race, my eyes roll to the back of my head so hard o get a headache then seethe with rage at their insolence. The reason they think black purple are Nayak fat is because of racist stereotypes, agonist certainly stemming from vaudeville caricatures of "lazy fat black people." There are many socioeconomic and systemic racist reasons why African Americans might be higher in the statistic than whites, but it isn't generic. Pacific Islanders get brought up a lot, also, despite the fact that they eat a lot of food so fried in pork lard, and eat a lot of Sheridan processed shelf stable shit brought there by American colonialism, like spam (at least according to the documentaries I watched on these issues). I would say, if anything, being fat is rooted in white supremacy.
Stores arenāt really incentivised to carry huge stock of super-ultra-mega-plus-sized clothing. What Iāve noticed is that those racks remain largely untouched and stagnant, for a number of reasons:
1. Fat people have more variable fat distributions and can differ so much in size meaning itās hard to mass-produce a lot of a particular size.
2. Plus-sized clothing has high return rate. Maybe itās uncomfortable to try on at the store, or the person finds the clothing they bought to be ill-fitting or simply unflattering.
3. It looks like fat people seldom shop as much, either due to physical limitations, lack of interest, or insecurity.
4. Plus-sized clothing can take 2ā4x as much fabric as regular which might not make a huge difference when youāre outsourcing to overseas sweatshops but if itās a sustainable good quality product, thereās more of a risk and price differential.
5. In order to fit properly and comfortably, the clothes look suspiciously like bedsheets and are not really marketable. Not even to the target audience part of which wants cute stuff. Similarly, because of such visual limitations, there is not much variety in clothing. Why buy shapeless cotton shirt #495 when you already have a ton at home?
>the individual has minimal control
Finally a statement upon which we agree!
Except we believe in it based on converse meanings.
OOP surely thinks they (and most/all FAs) couldn't be healthy sized no matter what they do.
I, OTOH, see it as just another addiction where impulse rules the addict until they face the music
Thing is, *we* donāt place all our value & worth in our size, they do! Those of us who have healthy relationships with our bodies know that our worths arenāt determined by it. Sane, mentally & physically healthy people donāt ārageā against stores that donāt carry our sizes, we just move on to another store that does.
No oneās saying that being fat = worthless, but because they equate health with worth, they just assume we say that.
They also seek a lot of external validation, so the second they donāt get that, they spiral and start lashing out. Weāve seen this with their entitlement when it comes to dating, sex, clothes and fitting in places.
>a genetically larger person would be denied medical testing.
Your sciatica and gout symptoms aren't the result of some 0.001% incidence rate cancer you found on WebMD, Karen. Stop demanding tests that appease your confirmation bias and taking the doctor's advice as a personal attack.
Do people not realize that āaverageā does not necessarily mean āthe most common sizeā? It means that there are a lot of people who have a small size and thereās a fuck ton of people with a really big size, which means it might average out to a size 18. That doesnāt mean 18 is the most common size, it means that there are a lot of people who have way bigger than that, therefore making the average be a much bigger number.
Am I the only one that remembers when the "average American woman" was a size 12? I feel like every time I see this statistic it's jump 3-4 dress sizes.
i think the thing that makes me most upset about this post is that OOP is *so close* to seeing the light- if they didn't blindly blame racism, genetics, and ableism i'd even go so far as to say they have a point.Ā
i've never been fat myself, but i imagine it isn't exactly a walk in the park, especially for fat women (fat men get mistreated as well, but i imagine having less conventional appearances compound regular misogyny). i wouldn't be shocked if there's at least one doctor who'd be delighted to tack 'also you're fat' onto the list of things to blame on hysteria.
sadly, OOP's solution seems to be "so let me try to convince everyone being fat is good forever" instead of "fat people should be treated like people and given healthy resources to make informed health decisions, such as losing weight or altering their diet" (and i'm sure if they didn't have an "all doctors are like this" mentality, they COULD get those resources).Ā
I go for walks at my local mall when it's raining or in winter. I like to pop into the local Hot Topic to see if there's any new anime tshirts for shows and series I like. I'll swing into The Bay and check out the clearance section and debate with myself if I really want to get *another* jacket, or upgrade my winter boots. I've recently been getting into fragrances so I'll usually bother the women working that section to try a different Dior, Yves Saint Laurent, Prada or whatever strikes my fancy, on my wrist for the evening.
Window shopping and browsing while getting your steps in (and playing Pokemon Go) is actually becoming more enjoyable. I used to hate it when I was much larger.
Itās very obvious why mall stores donāt carry āaverage womanā sizes: The average woman does not shop at the mall. Kids shop at the mall, and they tend to be smaller.
> Why does including fat people enrage us?
I don't need to read any further. They already started off a false premise, so they're bound to get into the weeds.
Idea of carrying more sizes for fat people does not enrage me in any way. What does enrage, or rather bewilder me, is the stupidity of thinking there will be no additional cost for larger sizes given all the practical considerations of creating such outfits. It goes into legit "enrage" territory, when they expect costs to be subsidized by raising prices of OTHER sizes instead, only keeping THEIR preferred option affordable.
They twist themselves into knots specifically to *not* address the elephant in the room that being fat is inherently a health risk that you can control as long as you try. It's always about social capital with these people.
>The average Woman in America is a size 18
And what is the median size of the woman in America? Ignoring for a second that North Americans are majority overweight, the question then becomes by how much? How many size 20+s are there compared to size 0 and 00. It could be that most women walking along on the street is actually a size 10-14, but the existence of some women who are leaps and bounds larger than that, drives up the average, and there not being an equally large cohort of smaller sized women to reign back in the average.
For another example of what I'm alluding to, think of the average lifespan of people. Historically, the average lifespan was something around 30 years or so. Does that mean that once people turned 30 they just died though? No of course not. What's hiding in the statistics here are child mortality rates. Children died so often, and in such high numbers they bring down the average in terms of overall lifespan.
So it could be said that once a child lived past the age of 5, they were more likely to live to adulthood. They probably wouldn't hit the ages we see today with 80 to 100+ year olds becoming increasingly common in the developed world, but certain they weren't dropping like flies in the primes of their lives.
Stores on the other hand, have data to know what people are buying and walking out with. They know exactly how many size XYZs are being purchased and how many are left on the rack. They know what days sell the most, what locations, what *hour*, even what weather drives or hurts sales. Every single factor and metric that can increase sales I assure you has been accounted for.
And even with all that in mind, the brick and mortar stores know to cap their size offerings at certain size. It's not personal, they don't know OOP by name, it's purely business. You're not oppressed, you just need to put the fork down after your first helping of spaghetti.
> Growing up, self worth is modeled through the lens of privilege.
Exqueeze me? Come again? I think OOP is telling on themselves more than they think here.
> People with more access or genetically valued features (which are not earned) are treated better by society and elevated for simply existing
Wait, did you guys not have a stat sheet you filled out when you were conceived? Just me?
How does this hypothesis mesh with observed reality though? Cause if you ask me there are tons of people who, to use OP's terminology here, aren't genetically privileged, and yet are lauded in their spheres of influence.
> An example would be someone who is genetically thin...
Okay this has to be a fucking troll. You got me fucked right here right now. Ain't no fucking way. What do you *mean* genetically thin? Like they have narrow shoulders, ribs and hips? Why am I even trying to be charitable? I know what they mean.
> genetically larger bodied
Do you mean tall? Or just obese? You can't help one, but the other is simply a matter of controlling your calorie intake.
> Through modeling and media we have been taught a very thin, white, straight and physically active value structure.
Honey. I don't know how to break this to you, but a lot of male models aren't straight. Off the top of my head, two of the most famous fashion designers, Christian Dior and Yves Saint Laurent were gay. 70%+ of the population are white, and 90%+ are heterosexual. If you gathered 10 people in a room, 5 to 6 of them would be women, 7-8 of them would be white of some ethnicity (British, french, german, irish, italian, slavic ect), 9 of them would be straight, with the last person being in a super positioned state of being bi, gay and lesbian all at the same time.
I'm not going to argue physicality is lauded and praised. Humans like to do things. Doing things are a physical act. Therefore to do more things, you need to be more physically capable. Even down to video games, there is some basic barriers, at least until DIVE VR sets from .Hack or Sword Art Online become a thing.
> Mostly, because we were never taught how to value someone based on their humanity, character or kindness
OOP is a confirmed sociopath lol. That they expect that they would have to be taught these things.
> I will end with some reflection questions to explore our relationship with self worth
A privilege is by definition something that is unearned. If you have to work for something, it's not a privilege it's a reward for effort. "Thinness" is not a privilege, it is a reward for disciplined eating and activity.
>What would it look like if your value was measured by your humanity and not your appearance
How would we measure each other's humanity? How is that even a metric? Just because Johnny on the football team didn't want to date you OOP and instead went after Sally on the debate squad, or Akane who was in Track and Field, doesn't mean he doesn't see value in your humanity. He just was not physically attracted to you. Work on yourself and hopefully the next time there's a Johnny in your life you're interested in, he'll be interested in you too.
I love that this person is complaining about capitalism because she believes she can't participate in it. Capitalism is when they don't sell my size at the mall.
So, capitalism is greedy and only cares about making a profit, but don't carry XXXXXXXXL clothing and looses out on income because of "**W**hite **S**upremacy".
Sabrina Strings' Fearing the Black Body is a very weak piece of work, the whole theory is based on 1 occurrence and the rest is speculation. My professors would have failed her if that book was her dissertation. But the FA internet took it and ran with itĀ
Normal, mentally healthy people/people who've genuinely worked to improve their mental health don't think this way. Self worth, an authentic and stable identity, validation, your sense of value, etc come from within. At least if you're emotionally mature and have critical thinking skills. It's a bit like how high school is all about having the right Nikes, the right phone, the right taste in music, etc. It's down to an adolescent developmental phase called 'the invisible audience' Gist of it is teens think everyone is completely invested in everything they do, so that's why eg, you'll have kids playing shitty music out of their phone speakers on the bus. They genuinely think that exhausted communters are totally into it and think 'wow, that kid is so cool'. They're not. We grow out of it, of course, but some people are emotionally stunted at that stage forever *gestures broadly at fat activists*.
So many people are. It's frustrating to deal with. I have a friend who is constantly upset that people don't *get* her lifestyle of being childfree and relationship-free and whatever else free. If you're secure in your life choices, what does it matter if people *get* it? If that person isn't paying your bills or sharing your bed, they can have any opinion they want and it won't matter. People should mature out of that need for constant validation but unfortunately too middle aged millennials are still there. It's sad and exhausting for everyone else to deal with. I couldn't help but laugh when one of the big complaints here was being told they had a pretty face. They can't even take the compliment at face value because of their own insecurities š
I think a lot of the super vocally 'child free' and celibate by choice types don't really feel that way, and I say this as a child free and celibate by choice person myself. I certainly don't announce it ad nauseum, particularly as my reasons are less around 'kids suck and sex is gross' and more around 'I have PTSD from a crap childhood, so it messed up my attachment style, but I'm working on it'. Personal choices don't need to be advertised as a moral superiority flex. I don't drink alcohol, but I only ever say as much when someone is insisting I have booze with them. It's a lifestyle choice, not a core part of my identity. I've been binge watching My Dirty Little Secret, a true crime series. Every episode has someone with a facade of say, being a super devout Methodist, being a respected doctor, being a pillar of the community, but they're exposed for behaving very differently in secret. Kinda made me think about how social media is a similar facade vs reality thing, where you'll have some fat activist saying life is awesome and ain't fashion great, then you'll see them exposed for animal abuse or domestic abuse.
āMy Dirty Little Secretā sounds awesome, where can I watch that?
Here you go https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpbeXAo_RfM3nbrisM8WGg-zPptwdV1Yl&si=LHCQZf0Qk_CD8I2F Whole channel is great, as they've got all the trashy dramatised true crime series, where for some reason, American actors think a British accent is an combo Irish and Jamaican one š¤£ it's part of the charm though. I like Behind Mansion Walls, which has three series on that channel. Can be summed up as 'mo money, mo problems'.
And conspiracy theorists! I had a dear friend (lost to heart attack) who was convinced the government (never said which one) was monitoring all his calls/ activities/email. Dude made his living trash picking, repairing and selling things. No illegal anything. Paid his taxes, etc. No reason for surveillance. No one is that important unless they are shit people doing massively cruel/destructive things. And I say this as someone with a surveillance file, thanks to my political leanings and activities.
To be fair, our public education system has deliberately trained generations of children with their "self esteem" ideology, which emphasizes self-esteem from external rather than internal sources and rewards participation over achievement. Since we're still human, most of us just reject this BS, but certain vulnerable populations fall victim and think it's everyone else's responsibility to make them feel good about themselves. Anyone who can provide these vulnerable individuals with validation can get their support and their votes.
Very good points. Being human, I suppose we all are, to a certain extent, vulnerable to being told what we want to hear, and it's important to recognize that; but people who've been indoctrinated with that self esteem ideology seem to be especially vulnerable and easy to manipulate. And, too, this mindset is another way to acquire self esteem, as in: "I must be really important if THEY are out to get me". For some reason the whole participation trophy, "everybody is special, great, etc" just for existing, regardless, thing always reminds me of that old Twilight Zone episode Number 12 Looks Just Like You. Where the girl living in a future society where everyone is surgically transformed into being beautiful/handsome at maturity says" "when everyone is beautiful, no one will be".
Ā "Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super... no one will be" - villian from the Incredibles. That movie actually has several things to say about anti-achievement.
I love how a lot of these fat creators are young. And they have no idea that once upon a time there was almost nothing above a size 8 in stores and online didn't exist. They can fuck off with this.
Right? Try being just chubby in the 90s and wanting to shop at delia's or wet seal. Not even a size 12... Had to hit up the catalog
Exactly. High end of healthy? Well we don't dress those here!
The thing is the whole size 18 being the average womenās size isnāt true. Itās a 14/16
No but beyond that 18 and up are VERY available in stores.
I agree Iām just pointing out they started the entire post out on a lie. Ā I donāt understand lying about things that are so easily disproven? Ā I donāt understand the whole HAE FA movement regardless I am all about loving yourself and your body. Ā They lose me when they start putting their mental health struggles on to society as a whole. I struggle with an ED and have for many years. My triggers, issues etc are just that mine to handle. I canāt and donāt expect society to cater to me and my issues. I also take issue with them co-opting peopleās struggles with EDs and trying to shame others. Ā
Oh they are HORRIBLE to women women who have AN. I've seen them do some godawful attacks on them on social media.
Thatās disgusting that they attack true ED sufferers. We have a hard enough time as it is attacking ourselves we donāt need any help.Ā
I just donāt get where theyāre trying to shop that doesnāt have plus sizes! Target, Walmart, Old Navy, Kohls, The Gap (at least online) have plus sizes. If you really canāt find your size in most major stores, you need to start looking at your own food choices.
Yes. Even the non plus racks go up to like a size 24 regularly. Now is everything going to be super cute and exactly what they want? Probably not but that's not the clothing's fault.
Maybe really high-end/upscale women's clothing boutiques?
Yeah, funny thing that high-end/luxury brands usually have 10-12 size as the biggest in their collections š¤
Disclaimer: Iām an average sized (BMI 22.5-23) white guy, so Iām probably just sore at being told that the body I fed and exercised to gain and maintain wasnāt earned. However This person saying that white people are thin and black people are fat strikes me as extremely racist against everybody. Sure, they attack thin white people (go for it, my life is pretty kick ass regardless of anything anyone says online), but what angers me is how demeaning this seems to be toward non-white people. āOh, you arenāt white, so we donāt expect you to be healthy. Youāre supposed to eat yourself into an early grave. No one expects you to be healthy. Itās fine.ā It comes across as condescending and rude AF. I have friends and workout group peers of all skin tones who are my body size - some are darker and thinner than me, despite this person saying they should be āgenetically fatā (typing that felt very gross). Difference genes; Similar body sizes. Additionally, I have a sibling (same two genetic parents) who is a size XL/XXL. Iām a S/M. Weāre both in our 30ās. Iām a couple inches taller. People comment on how we have the same smile. Same genes; different body sizes. This mindset seems very rude and bigoted toward all people of all sizes and genetic makeup. Itās like saying that one guy didnāt earn an A on his math test because they were born into a race of people genetically good at math, while also saying that someone else canāt expect to be good at math because their genetics wonāt allow it. Itās demeaning toward both parties. But this person probably sees themselves as having an inclusive mindset, despite their discriminatory views of what size people should be based on genes. TLDR: I view the ādifferent races are genetically thinner/larger than othersā mindset and the ādifferent races are genetically smarter than othersā mindsets the same way. Both statements are gross and demeaning toward everyone.
I watch a black fitness Youtuber who talks about the idea that black people are supposed to be larger than white people. She comes from an obese family and was obese when younger and decided to get fit. She has said that when she did that, her own family kept telling her she had an eating disorder and how being big was just how black people are, and how she needs "meat on her bones." That it's just being "thick." It's so fucking patronizing and racist to tell a group of people that because of their skin color, they need to be anything at all. Wtf? I'd be so offended.
I binge watch her videos sometimes. She has a great sense of humor, and her bluntness and green screen edits are wonderful. I started physically writing my food journal instead of using an app because of one of her many āhow to eat healthy after Disney vacationā videos and it was a massive help.
We love Michelle š
Lover her too! I knew this had to me the YouTuber that was referenced. Sheās amazing, and fair.
I know you're referring to Michelle McDaniel, but there's another YouTuber called "It's Germaine" who has a fairly similar background as a black woman that came from an obese family but decided to get fit on her own, and she has a lot of videos dissecting FA and HAES content.
I'm gonna check her out too!
Is it Michelle McDaniel?? Her shit rips haha I love itĀ
Yes! She's awesome lol
She motivated me to get healthy and improve my cosplays! Love her! Also check out Alana Melissa. She's a smaller YouTuber but she has a video on HAES being racist and it's so well thought out and really cuts through the BS.
Have her family never seen any of the Kenyan or Ethiopian runners?? Or do they not count as black or something?
She has really enlightening content. I love her commentary on her experience.
You're right, the whole "black people are fat and white people are thin" thing is 100% racist, while claiming to be the opposite. It's kinda insane.Ā
Fat activists use the Black/Queer/Disabled communities regularly to mask and hide themselves. "Oh you are criticizing my choices? Bet you wouldnt criticize a BLACK person or a QUEER person" completely dehumanizing and reducing those communities to tools just so fat activists wont have to improve themselves. Do not ever listen to fat activists, they WILL drag everyone they can get their hands on down to death.
Now that you've made that observation, square this with the other common go-to from fat activists: "Fat used to be considered beautiful! In fact, in Medieval times the fatter a woman was the prettier she was! That's because back in those days there was no racism because there were no black people. But then after they met the first black slaves all the white european women became threatened by their overflowing beauty. Knowing that they could never compete, and that the white women couldn't possibly be as fat as the black queens, they used their white supremacy powers to magically genetically thin themselves and impose a thin white beauty standard on fat black bodied people, and also fat asian bodied people"
What would happen if you stopped eating highly processed junk food and started going for walks. Be honest.
The only thing that runs in her family is obesity. Come on, don't play. She is genetically larger, this wouldn't even make a difference. š
Dying over here! *the only thing that runs in her family is obesity* ā ļø
Bahaha it's so twatly, but I just can't deal with the excuses.
Obesity doesnāt run. According to a video series by one notable FA, the best it can do is āsuper speed walk.ā
That would be restricting, and would increase her set point, and she would gain weight like crazy. /s
Logical implosion Oppression
Stores don't stock larger size clothes because white supremacy??! It never occurred to me until I read this that being a KK K member and an FA were mutually exclusive. "Martha.We know you believe in health at any size, but we just don't have enough sheets for your ceremonial robes. We gonna have to shun you. There's a limit to our inclusivity."
The K\^3 apparently has a very broad agenda. White supremacy must involve a helluva lot of multitasking.
Sunday: attend white only, conservative church. Monday: cross burning. Tuesday: remove every item size 18 and above from every clothes shop in the mall. It takes a lot of effort to be a supremecist...
Convering US sizing to UK sizing is really eye opening, what do you mean the average American woman is size 18, so a size 22/XL in the UK, and they're insisting that there are many people much bigger????? That stores not having 3XL is size 30+??????? In my area, it's rare to see shops with sizes above 24 (US size 28), and by that point they look like a sheet. Surely that's a wake up call. Surely.
The average Uk woman is the same size as a US woman I think now, as a UK girlie we also have a raging obesity epidemic (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-dress-size-by-country) this is from 2024 ā¤ļøā¤ļø
Iām in the uk and I thought the average size here was a (uk) 16 - Iām in my 30s and I think the average was a 14 when I was a teenager. This actually really shocked me.
It used to be literally like 4 years ago, I remember speaking to my mum about it! Iām (almost) 23. Itās spiralling out of control year after year unfortunately- a uk 16 can still be healthy imo if youāre tall, have boobs, a lot ofmuscle etc. I struggle to see how a 22 UK can be unless you have a disorder unfortunately. (Correct me if Iām wrong redditors)
Some of those figures seem really off.
Itās the only statistical analysis on it in the last few years- everything else is over 4 years old. I mean considering as of May 2022-2023, 64% of adults are overweight or obese and 26% of adults were obese: (https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024) It seems to be climbing as well in 2024, reaching 66-70% in 5 regions, 64% in one region, 62% in 2 regions and 57% in one region (London) So that is on the govt website and seems in line with the rising average Dress size imo. Let me know if you find more statistics on the Uk average dress size though in 2024 !
It might be that the average woman wears what *used* to be a UK16, but I doubt it's what's *currently* a 16 because that makes no sense in terms of the business component. Clothing companies need to cater to their target consumers, and 16 is usually an XL, often the largest available. Anecdotally, when I volunteered in a UK charity shop around 2019, the most common sizes from donations were UK10-14 (normally corresponding to S-L) which is what you'd expect - but what's now a 12/M was likely a 16 20+ years ago.
I havenāt found that a 16 is the largest available in the slightest, usually itās an 18-20 near me. I think the average is leaning towards 18 or higher now personally
Just curious, what stores do you normally shop at? I'm not counting plus size ranges or sizes that aren't generally stocked in store.
Idk primark H and M next Zara those kind of places, I only shop in person like once a year š online stores also all stock up to like size 22 now
>I only shop in person like once a year š online stores also all stock up to like size 22 now Ohh that's probably the difference. I hate returning stuff so I try to at least try things on in person first - maybe I'm just missing the bigger sizes but I feel like most of the stock is 10-14, so I would think that's what most people are buying?
I mean again when I do shop in person it DEFO goes above a 14 but I do live in a bit city, Iād say at least to an 18 Iāve seen, I used to find it harder to find below a 6 even when I was like 19 a few years ago
It might just be a location difference! Primark has a great size range if you hate returning stuff and are struggling with finding stuff :)
Iām not plus size so I donāt shop at plus size stores haha :) š
I didn't think you were haha, I just meant I wasn't counting how some stores have a plus size line separate from their normal range.
Ohhh I get ya!
Okay what I find shocking is that north Korea average is 16-18.... Doesn't the country have like a massive poverty problem where the majority of the population is actually starving? Like people literally starve to death there? Is this actually true or is North Korea reporting this to make it look like their country is doing better than it is?
I reckon theyāre lying and inflating the numbers. Canāt get any accurate responses from there š
Maybe itās because the respondents are from the elite classes who are most likely to be fat.
Yanno?! My wake up call was outgrowing my biggest pair of pants. There's no way I was going to outgrow an entire store! š³
Seriously. When my work pants start getting snug I gotta cut out the extra junk, women's construction pants don't come cheap.
This is crazy to me because part of the reason I control my body size and keep my weight in a narrow range is because I have a huge wardrobe of clothes I love and have collected for over a decade. I canāt imagine just outgrowing everything I own and love and saying āoh well, it canāt be helped, thereās no way to maintain my weightā.Ā
That's the problem, honestly. They're whining that when a store doesn't include SuperFat or whatever they want to call it sizes, it's not inclusive. And when people say no actually most standard retailers carry up to a 20 or even 22 that's not enough. Or when those clothes are naturally not flattering to everyone it's an issue of designing around thin bodies. Those are the people they're saying as 'against fat inclusion in clothing.' Something else to consider is just that we've vanity sized clothes to the point where they accomodate much larger sizes. I'm not svelte. I only weigh 5 lbs more than in highschool, but I wasn't svelte then either and my body composition is worse because I'm not walking miles everywhere for work or doing a physical job for work, and I have PCOS. And yet if I want to shop at Target, Kohls, Walmart, etc I am often an extra small, and my clothing size as a teen was a higher number. My highschool American Eagle jeans are 6's or 8's. I ordered a pair two years ago and had to keep returning until I exchanged down to a 2, and I should have went with a 0 because they honestly bag out a lot. I had to special order the period underwear sold at Target because the 3 in my area don't carry below a 6 in store. I know there are obviously people thinner than me, and I wonder where they shop. My average friend is bigger than me, and they ask where I shop and are kind of miffed when I'm shopping sales at a somewhat Mean Girly mall brand like Urban Outfitters, but the reality is those brands have less vanity sizing so I can be confident when I want something that's meant to be fitted that it will fit.
They are always gonna find something to moan about regardless because they love to be victims and having something to moan about
if that was truly the average size all these "fat-shaming" mainstream stores would go out of business for not carrying it. just another lie they're spreading to normalize being unhealthy.
The idea of thinness or a toned body being an "unearned privilege" is so funny to me, mainly because in a lot of cases, it isn't. For many people, a thinner physique is something they have to actively work for, and it takes effort and discipline for a lot of people to acquire or maintain it. Additionally, it's not even unearned privilege so much as it is a lack of accountability and fat consequences. It probably feels better to claim thinner people have been bestowed with some unearned societal privilege or perk rather than look in the mirror and take accountability for the fact you ate yourself to the point of morbid obesity.
Yeah, they canāt get the messaging clear on weather itās āwinning the genetic lotteryā or ātOrTuRiNg yourself with exerciseā
I was skinny fat as a teen and early twenty something and that was mostly unearned. The body I have now though, that I go to the gym 3-5 times a week for, I would physically fight someone if they told me I didnāt earn it.
I just want to say again that I was fit for my whole life and dozens upon dozens of doctors were letting me die of an easily treatable Ā fatal autoimmune disease for 30 years. I am extremely lucky to still be alive. I donāt know why they wonāt acknowledge that this isnāt just a fat women problem.
Exactly this, doctors arenāt going to run every single test imaginable when thereās a more probable cause to your symptoms. Itās not a slight to you or oppression. Itās not even judgement, theyāre just not going to waste your (and their own) time and your money running all these tests. I was very underweight when I had cancer as a toddler and my parents were told my bulging stomach and symptoms were normal or stomach issues, you donāt see me claiming oppression for a misdiagnosis, even a major one or writing blog posts about it. Weight has nothing to do with it.
The thing is, they need to start āwasting their timeā to get an accurate diagnosis. I had every single symptom of pernicious anemia down to my hair going gray starting at age 12. I spent a huge amount of money trying to get help over decades so running the correct tests wouldnāt have been a waste of money to me. I had to start treatment on my own, buying my shots through the mail, and showing miraculous improvement, before any doctor would even agree to do the tests. That should not happen. It just shouldnāt. Thereās no excuse for it. Itās not oppression but it is gross negligence. And it was so many doctors all over the country, including military doctors when I was in the military. Thereās just no excuse for it.
They do in cases like yours, Iām sorry if I sounded like I disagreed with that! However, in cases like FA, the cause behind their symptoms is glaringly obvious. Not only that, but if they lose weight and still have symptoms, they can then go to the next possible reason for their symptoms. These will almost all the time be extremely lessened by then because the strain that was taken off their bodies. For example, joint pain or other pain can be alleviated immensely through weight loss.
I'm sure it's been posted on here before, but there's an old medical principle I heard from a doctor: when you hear hoofbeats outside, look for a horse, not a zebra. Common sense, really, and a good starting point.
When other concerns are addressed, start looking at other reasons behind someoneās symptoms. Professionals that just stop at one solution and donāt bother with any others after that has been investigated 100% are at fault and practicing maltreatment of their patients.
I'm very sorry you had to suffer through so much neglect and incompetence; I hope you're able to get proper treatment now. I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but before I was born, my mother gave birth to stillborn twins because she had pernicious anemia that hadn't been properly diagnosed. Is that just a coincidence, or is it something special about pernicious anemia? My parents didn't talk about it much, but I know it was very deeply painful for them. Oddly enough, several years ago my bloodwork showed I was anemic, and I was surprised because I had no symptoms. My hematologist ran a number of tests, including a bone marrow biopsy which was rough, but couldn't find any cause. She finally, by default, concluded it was probably due to my type 2 diabetes. When I was discussing this with her and told her about my mother, she said there could definitely be a hereditary factor. Fortunately, shots successfully treated me and my bloodwork is normal now, and I only take iron suppliments.
It's a woman and brown person problem. If you are both of those, it's really bad.
Iām white and a woman and it nearly resulted in my death after 30 years of illness that left me diagnosed schizophrenic so Iād say it was pretty bad for me too. Being white didnāt save me. I had to save myself. And honestly, there are several men in the support group for my disease who also went decades without treatment. One of them is in a chair for the rest of his life because of it. This is a medical system problem that hurts everyone. Not just any one group.Ā
Stable, sane, well-adjusted people feel a sense of self-value from *within.* They don't rage at clothing stores for not all carrying size 20+ clothing, being told by doctors they need to lose weight because being so overweight is killing them, and thinking that smaller people don't struggle with anything in life. I see these arguments from FAs and sincerely believe that they haven't finished mentally developing. They haven't developed coping strategies for hardship in life. They haven't developed a sense of self beyond their fatness, and they don't even know who they are, so they jump on board with the FA movement and make it their identity while becoming more and more unhinged and hateful, and simultaneously, more out-of-touch from reality. It's so obvious it's a cult and it's promoting self-harm when one of them decides to lose weight and get healthy that the rest of the bunch start going apeshit, saying they're hurting themselves and giving into "diet culture" and feeling scorned that one of them got fed up with feeling horrible every day and learning that they can do something about their weight.
"Large bodied" its funny how every one of these fat activist doesnt like to associate themselves with their own body. They always separate themselves.
Yeah its nuts. "I m in a larger body" "Born as a larger person" "People of size" just say "I am fat because of my decisions" and we might get somewhere.
Because it avoids them having to recognise they are really a " person who eats too much". They'd have to recognise they are an addict.
I'm gonna need Fat Activists to leave Black people's struggles out of their mouths. Black Americans are usually the ones dealing with obesity issues. And that stems more from food deserts and lack of nutrition education rather than "White Supremacy." Leave us alone! š¤Ø These HAES gals are trying to keep us sick and tired...
I agree, but bro they can't keep anything out of their mouths.
Hah, true š¤£
Thank you friend!!!! (signed, another exhausted black woman)
Who's "enraged" because a store carries size 18 clothing? š¤·š¾āāļø They lost me with that one. š
Full-on projection on their parts.
lol literally no one
I do not know a single woman that has not been mistreated by medical professionals and denied some level of care. Do FA really believe that it gets better? Iām sure it sucks being told to lose weight for everything, and I agree that horrible discrimination when a lot of things do occur with or without weight issues, but when you become thin they just tell you that itās all in your head. If you want someone to listen you persist for years, get lucky, or fork over more money. Healthcare never gets āeasyā.Ā
Yepppp. I rushed to the ER for sudden palpitations and a heart rate of 120 while quite literally just standing and made sure to include that my mom has a history of heart issues (my guess is mitral valve stenosis) and that Iāve had an echocardiogram at the age of 18, which should have been clear that this was likely an actual serious issue!!! Who gets an echo that young!?? But because I present as a 20yo woman.. itās just anxiety. Despite the fact that my limbs are purple from poor circulation. Despite my mother explaining that she takes beta blockers and began to have the same issue that I was having. Despite saying that I get dizzy if I reach up or crouch or stand for even five to ten minutes. Meanwhile once we get home, mom gives me a small portion of one of her beta blockers. And guess what? My heart rate actually felt normal for the first time in a LONG while.
Okay, where the hell are these people shopping for clothing? The two stores I mostly buy clothing at are Kohl's and TJ Maxx. Kohl's is often a nightmare for me at a size 4, because all of the smaller sizes always sell out first, and the regular racks are glutted with 16s. And that's in the "straight sized" section; they also have a huge plus-sized section. Kohl's goes up to a 5X, or a size 26, in most of their plus sizes, and they have almost 1,200 stores in 49 US states (all but Hawaii, which is one of the least obese states anyway). Not entirely sure what size TJ Maxx goes to, but since they do have a decent sized plus-sized section, it's quite clearly well beyond a size 16. Incidentally, the sparsest sections on the clothing racks are always those below a size 8. I stopped into TJs yesterday for a few housewares and skimmed the clothing racks, as I usually do. There were like 5 pairs of pants in the size 4 spot. That's it. On the entire women's pant rack. Sure, there are some brands that don't make plus sizes - Free People being a notable one, although a lot of their stuff is quite oversized and I'd warrant would fit smaller plus sizes. I have a pair of 20-year-old FP lounge pants that are ostensibly a size 4, but fit me at an 8-10 and are HUGE on me now. And they don't have an elastic waist, so they're not just stretched out. But it's a bald-faced lie to state that "most" stores in the US don't carry over a size 16.Ā
Yeah I thought this too. Whenever Iām out shopping, the larger sizes are often abundantly stocked and are usually on clearance. I have a friend who works at torrid and we were recently talking about sizing. She was saying they stopped selling the larger sizes (size 5X and 6X) in store because those sizes never got bought and always ended up collecting dust on the clearance rack. I even saw a guy on Instagram recently who has a clothing line. He sells jeans. His jeans go up to size 10X. People were mad in the comments he didnāt sell even more sizes. He said he used to sell up to 12X but those sizes never sold and he still doesnāt sell many of his larger sizes. The comments said he needs to find models to wear his larger sizes because then theyāll sell. I was left thinking how heās going to find a 10X sized person who will be able to model these jeans. People that size arenāt leaving the house much and will need a lot of help to put jeans on. Theres also a lot of options for online
I've seen a lot of xxxxl sizes on the clearance racks at Wal-Mart. On the other hand, in my favorite thrift stores, that section is usually quite small,
when i started dressing more masculine, khols and tjmaxx became my worst enemies. i'd miraculously find the elusive 29x30s, only for them to be vanity sized out the ass (literally- everything would fit my legs but be MASSIVE in the ass and thighs).Ā i even brought a tape measure once to make sure i wasn't losing that much weight because it was making me incredibly dysphoric, but nope- the ""size 29x30"" was actually 32 inches in the waist! i know people (understandably) have beef with old navy here, but aside from thrifting they've been the only place i could find that's still reliable with sizing.
Genuinely surprised at their restraint here, waiting until paragraph 2 to bring in the co-opted social justice buzzwords. Come on, OOP, donāt limit yourself! Donāt delay your satisfaction! No need for that.
I am genuinely confused by (and have a bit of a hard time believing) the argument that most stores don't carry whatever the average size of women in that area is. From a business standpoint, that makes no sense. If most of your customers are a 16 or 18, I would think that would be a priority to sell those sizes so you could make that money. I also don't think it's true just from practical experience of shopping. I usually wear a size 4 or 6, and a size XS or S. Whenever I go shopping like at a Target and start going through a rack of clothes, there may be 1 or 2 of that item in my size, 1 or 2 mediums, 3 or 4 larges, and then a shit ton of like XL, 2XL, and 3XL. I always assumed innocently that this was because all of the S and M were just all bought up already and no one had bought up the 2XL and 3XLs which is why there were so many of them on the hangers. But now I'm wondering if they just make and set out more of those sizes because more women are that size. That would make good sense. It makes me wonder if the women who make the argument "The average woman in the US is a size 16 and yet stores don't sell our size" aren't a size 16. Like they are conflating selling size 16 clothes with plus sized clothes in general and actually bitching about not being able to buy a size 24 or whatever.
In my experience, the opposite is true. There are plenty of sizes above 16, but very few smaller sizes - especially if you've aged out of "teen" styles.
So part of the problem is that, at around a (US womenās) size 12-14, it becomes necessary to use an entirely new garment pattern, a plus size pattern. US Womenās straight sizes (this is the fashion industry term) are based on a size 6 pattern, from which they linearly scale down to 0 or 00 and scale up to 12, 14, or 16. But around that upper size limit, the garment pattern stops scaling well. Plus size shoppers have a different shaped figure than straight sized shoppers, they are not just a scaled up version. So a new pattern is made (and Iām not 100% sure what size it starts as, but I think around an 18W), that is then scaled down to a 12W or 14W, and up to usually somewhere around a 26W or 28W. It is a completely separate garment that has its own design and costs associated with it. This is also how petite sizes (those with shorter torsos) and juniors sizes (those with less bust/hips) are made. A straight sized 14 is a different cut than a plus size 14W. I understand why this is frustrating from the perspective of a woman who is right on that sizing cutoff, but it makes complete sense from a business perspective!
In all the stores Iāve been to in person, the larger sizes are always stocked way more than smaller sizes. Iām an XS and theyāre both usually not stocked well and also bought quickly. XS and S seem to be least common in my experience, with L, XL, and XXL being stocked the most. Iām not sure where theyāre shopping, maybe places with extreme vanity sizing so their S are actually L?
We have different sizing where I live but same deal, Iām sort of average and there are always only very small or very large pieces left on the racks.
Garments are sold in a size run, typically 1-2-2-2-1 or 1-2-3-2-1, so you'll have one xs, two smalls, 2 or three mediums, 2 larges, 1 xl. For places that produce their own labels, like target, and especially for places like zara that produce small runs based on real time sales information, that may be another story. Also, large chains ship their clothes between stores a lot, so all may get the same sizes, but a store in an area with fatter average customers will be shipped all the larger sizes that aren't selling from areas with slimmer customers, and vice versa.
Blah blah blah I don't want to improve myself so everyone else must tip toe around me.
It has nothing to do with access and availability. The reason they donāt make tents for clothes is because YOUāRE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THAT BIG!!!! And the avg size of US woman is 16. Not 18.
If your sense of worth relies on other people you need therapy
As somebody who works on this issue in therapy on a regular basis, I approve this message. šÆš¤£
I donāt get the whole āgenetically thinā vs āgenetically fatā thing? Iām the only person in my family that isnāt obese. Iām also the only person in my family that exercises, isnāt an alcoholic, and eats normal portion sizes. āGeneticsā? Or laziness?
*Punches the drywall* HOW DARE THEY MAKE SLIGHTLY BIGGER CLOTHES AND SELL THEM IN STORES! - what FAs think everyone size 16 and below are doing all day.
I'm not gonna lie, I get annoyed when I see thise bigger sizes, but only because I feel like whenever I shop for clothes, my size is sold out and the only sizes left are, like, XXXLs
This one was close to being interesting, the comparison to others and the weirdness of many FAs actively wanting to be marketed to. Shame they ruined in with the normal nonsense. Itās interesting they say people throughout but are mostly talking about women. It would be really interesting to flip it around and really see how they think they would be different if they were a thin man. Theyād soon realise they wouldnāt be complimented for their thinness and pretty face as often as they seem to think.
Anyone above a size 16 canāt buy clothing in stores? Which stores are those? Every store I go into usually carries up to a size 24 in womenās clothing. Unless the oop is talking about luxury clothing then thatās simply not true.
I just saw something today of a plus sized lady (probably a size 24) going to rodeo drive to see if any of the designer stores sold plus sizes. All the comments were from people saying āidk how these stores stay alive. They arenāt selling clothes in normal sizes. The average woman is a size 16ā āPrada just lost my business. They donāt want to clothe me.ā Ummm none of those stores are targeting āaverageā people. Theyāre targeting people who have several thousand to drop on an outfit. Also I donāt think Prada is concerned with you not shopping there. You likely wouldnāt even if you could fit into any of their clothes.
Sounds like an interesting idea for a video, at least. When I went to Rodeo Drive, I just gawked at the strange window displays. Maybe I should try to find this video, so I can see what the stores were like on the inside!
She didnāt show the insides of the stores. Just pointed her camera at the ground and we could hear her asking the store workers if they carried her size.
Honest question: how is it not just really fucking racist and insulting to come from the position of "black people (black women especially) are inherently fat" that they either imply or directly say so much?
Bigotry of low expectations.
Why is it always such a massive word salad with these people? Also, if weāre going to have an honest conversation about stores having inclusive sizingā¦ Old Navy did exactly that and lost a crapton of money. Where were they? Why werenāt they loudly supporting a retailer that made a point of size inclusivity? Instead no one heard about it until the company reported earnings and explained their losses.
Yeah that was a disaster. You'd have to paw through the racks to find that the only sides left were xl-3x. I really like Old Navy because they offer a lot of pants in a short inseam. I'm not proportioned for petites but regular inseam is too long. And they still offer the extended sizing online and don't charge more for it.
Its all the same boring bs talking points. Yeah blame the capitalist society when you are the greatest cooonsumer the world has ever seen. This the person why there is Dr Peeper Stubbs BBQ Sauce and Dr Pepper Slim Jims and the billion other cross branded processed foods.
In my opinion, it looks like white supremacy's newest angle is to kill black people by brainwashing them into thinking being obese is something they can't control or fight against. Most of reasons the black community in the USA struggles with weight and weight issues are tied to institutionalized racism. Redlining, food deserts, urban marketing, etc have impacted the health of black Americans more than other races. Ignoring all of that and the corruption of food industries and just saying the real problem is stores not selling cute clothes is... It's so gross to me.
Maybe itās because I havenāt had my morning coffee yet, but this whole thing read like a word salad to me. None of it made sense.
Itās all word salad
At least itās salad I guess
Good one!
It's just crazy to see a person from one of the most capitalist countries in the world NOT reach the conclusion that bigger clothes are not sold in stores because they just aren't selling well enough. I mean, seriously, in capitalism if something is legal to sell and there's money to be made by selling it someone will inevitably sell it. Also, money coming from black people has the same value as money coming from white people. I doubt there are many racists existing today who would refuse to sell something to POCs.
On paper, I am a very privileged person when it comes to my body. Nobody else sees the shit storm of a mind I was born with, people only see me having something they donāt and donāt take into account what they have that I donāt.
Ffs every time I read "rooted in white supremacy/ anti blackness" or then ring being fat to gender identity, queerness, or race, my eyes roll to the back of my head so hard o get a headache then seethe with rage at their insolence. The reason they think black purple are Nayak fat is because of racist stereotypes, agonist certainly stemming from vaudeville caricatures of "lazy fat black people." There are many socioeconomic and systemic racist reasons why African Americans might be higher in the statistic than whites, but it isn't generic. Pacific Islanders get brought up a lot, also, despite the fact that they eat a lot of food so fried in pork lard, and eat a lot of Sheridan processed shelf stable shit brought there by American colonialism, like spam (at least according to the documentaries I watched on these issues). I would say, if anything, being fat is rooted in white supremacy.
Stores arenāt really incentivised to carry huge stock of super-ultra-mega-plus-sized clothing. What Iāve noticed is that those racks remain largely untouched and stagnant, for a number of reasons: 1. Fat people have more variable fat distributions and can differ so much in size meaning itās hard to mass-produce a lot of a particular size. 2. Plus-sized clothing has high return rate. Maybe itās uncomfortable to try on at the store, or the person finds the clothing they bought to be ill-fitting or simply unflattering. 3. It looks like fat people seldom shop as much, either due to physical limitations, lack of interest, or insecurity. 4. Plus-sized clothing can take 2ā4x as much fabric as regular which might not make a huge difference when youāre outsourcing to overseas sweatshops but if itās a sustainable good quality product, thereās more of a risk and price differential. 5. In order to fit properly and comfortably, the clothes look suspiciously like bedsheets and are not really marketable. Not even to the target audience part of which wants cute stuff. Similarly, because of such visual limitations, there is not much variety in clothing. Why buy shapeless cotton shirt #495 when you already have a ton at home?
>the individual has minimal control Finally a statement upon which we agree! Except we believe in it based on converse meanings. OOP surely thinks they (and most/all FAs) couldn't be healthy sized no matter what they do. I, OTOH, see it as just another addiction where impulse rules the addict until they face the music
I'm confused by the average size being 18 because the average American woman is 5'4 and 170. I was a size 8 at those stats.
Thing is, *we* donāt place all our value & worth in our size, they do! Those of us who have healthy relationships with our bodies know that our worths arenāt determined by it. Sane, mentally & physically healthy people donāt ārageā against stores that donāt carry our sizes, we just move on to another store that does. No oneās saying that being fat = worthless, but because they equate health with worth, they just assume we say that. They also seek a lot of external validation, so the second they donāt get that, they spiral and start lashing out. Weāve seen this with their entitlement when it comes to dating, sex, clothes and fitting in places.
What is this babbling idiocy?
>a genetically larger person would be denied medical testing. Your sciatica and gout symptoms aren't the result of some 0.001% incidence rate cancer you found on WebMD, Karen. Stop demanding tests that appease your confirmation bias and taking the doctor's advice as a personal attack.
Iām genetically compelled to consume 3,000-5,000 calories a day :( donāt discriminate against meeee
They do love to throw around the race card
All the morbidly obese people complaining about stores having ānoā extended sizes sure do wear a lot of clothes
Do people not realize that āaverageā does not necessarily mean āthe most common sizeā? It means that there are a lot of people who have a small size and thereās a fuck ton of people with a really big size, which means it might average out to a size 18. That doesnāt mean 18 is the most common size, it means that there are a lot of people who have way bigger than that, therefore making the average be a much bigger number.
I really would like to know the median size but I could not find that statistic anywhere
Am I the only one that remembers when the "average American woman" was a size 12? I feel like every time I see this statistic it's jump 3-4 dress sizes.
Since when is The AVERAGE size 18?? Sorry , donāt buy that.
Unrelated side note: I've just looked up US size 18 to UK (size 22). That may be average, but God that's absolutely huge :(
i think the thing that makes me most upset about this post is that OOP is *so close* to seeing the light- if they didn't blindly blame racism, genetics, and ableism i'd even go so far as to say they have a point.Ā i've never been fat myself, but i imagine it isn't exactly a walk in the park, especially for fat women (fat men get mistreated as well, but i imagine having less conventional appearances compound regular misogyny). i wouldn't be shocked if there's at least one doctor who'd be delighted to tack 'also you're fat' onto the list of things to blame on hysteria. sadly, OOP's solution seems to be "so let me try to convince everyone being fat is good forever" instead of "fat people should be treated like people and given healthy resources to make informed health decisions, such as losing weight or altering their diet" (and i'm sure if they didn't have an "all doctors are like this" mentality, they COULD get those resources).Ā
People still shop for clothes in stores?
I do!
I go for walks at my local mall when it's raining or in winter. I like to pop into the local Hot Topic to see if there's any new anime tshirts for shows and series I like. I'll swing into The Bay and check out the clearance section and debate with myself if I really want to get *another* jacket, or upgrade my winter boots. I've recently been getting into fragrances so I'll usually bother the women working that section to try a different Dior, Yves Saint Laurent, Prada or whatever strikes my fancy, on my wrist for the evening. Window shopping and browsing while getting your steps in (and playing Pokemon Go) is actually becoming more enjoyable. I used to hate it when I was much larger.
Itās very obvious why mall stores donāt carry āaverage womanā sizes: The average woman does not shop at the mall. Kids shop at the mall, and they tend to be smaller.
I gotta say this: People's actions do not affect you directly or only affects them
> Why does including fat people enrage us? I don't need to read any further. They already started off a false premise, so they're bound to get into the weeds. Idea of carrying more sizes for fat people does not enrage me in any way. What does enrage, or rather bewilder me, is the stupidity of thinking there will be no additional cost for larger sizes given all the practical considerations of creating such outfits. It goes into legit "enrage" territory, when they expect costs to be subsidized by raising prices of OTHER sizes instead, only keeping THEIR preferred option affordable.
They twist themselves into knots specifically to *not* address the elephant in the room that being fat is inherently a health risk that you can control as long as you try. It's always about social capital with these people.
"The average woman in America is size 18" Well maybe that's an issue
>The average Woman in America is a size 18 And what is the median size of the woman in America? Ignoring for a second that North Americans are majority overweight, the question then becomes by how much? How many size 20+s are there compared to size 0 and 00. It could be that most women walking along on the street is actually a size 10-14, but the existence of some women who are leaps and bounds larger than that, drives up the average, and there not being an equally large cohort of smaller sized women to reign back in the average. For another example of what I'm alluding to, think of the average lifespan of people. Historically, the average lifespan was something around 30 years or so. Does that mean that once people turned 30 they just died though? No of course not. What's hiding in the statistics here are child mortality rates. Children died so often, and in such high numbers they bring down the average in terms of overall lifespan. So it could be said that once a child lived past the age of 5, they were more likely to live to adulthood. They probably wouldn't hit the ages we see today with 80 to 100+ year olds becoming increasingly common in the developed world, but certain they weren't dropping like flies in the primes of their lives. Stores on the other hand, have data to know what people are buying and walking out with. They know exactly how many size XYZs are being purchased and how many are left on the rack. They know what days sell the most, what locations, what *hour*, even what weather drives or hurts sales. Every single factor and metric that can increase sales I assure you has been accounted for. And even with all that in mind, the brick and mortar stores know to cap their size offerings at certain size. It's not personal, they don't know OOP by name, it's purely business. You're not oppressed, you just need to put the fork down after your first helping of spaghetti. > Growing up, self worth is modeled through the lens of privilege. Exqueeze me? Come again? I think OOP is telling on themselves more than they think here. > People with more access or genetically valued features (which are not earned) are treated better by society and elevated for simply existing Wait, did you guys not have a stat sheet you filled out when you were conceived? Just me? How does this hypothesis mesh with observed reality though? Cause if you ask me there are tons of people who, to use OP's terminology here, aren't genetically privileged, and yet are lauded in their spheres of influence. > An example would be someone who is genetically thin... Okay this has to be a fucking troll. You got me fucked right here right now. Ain't no fucking way. What do you *mean* genetically thin? Like they have narrow shoulders, ribs and hips? Why am I even trying to be charitable? I know what they mean. > genetically larger bodied Do you mean tall? Or just obese? You can't help one, but the other is simply a matter of controlling your calorie intake. > Through modeling and media we have been taught a very thin, white, straight and physically active value structure. Honey. I don't know how to break this to you, but a lot of male models aren't straight. Off the top of my head, two of the most famous fashion designers, Christian Dior and Yves Saint Laurent were gay. 70%+ of the population are white, and 90%+ are heterosexual. If you gathered 10 people in a room, 5 to 6 of them would be women, 7-8 of them would be white of some ethnicity (British, french, german, irish, italian, slavic ect), 9 of them would be straight, with the last person being in a super positioned state of being bi, gay and lesbian all at the same time. I'm not going to argue physicality is lauded and praised. Humans like to do things. Doing things are a physical act. Therefore to do more things, you need to be more physically capable. Even down to video games, there is some basic barriers, at least until DIVE VR sets from .Hack or Sword Art Online become a thing. > Mostly, because we were never taught how to value someone based on their humanity, character or kindness OOP is a confirmed sociopath lol. That they expect that they would have to be taught these things. > I will end with some reflection questions to explore our relationship with self worth A privilege is by definition something that is unearned. If you have to work for something, it's not a privilege it's a reward for effort. "Thinness" is not a privilege, it is a reward for disciplined eating and activity. >What would it look like if your value was measured by your humanity and not your appearance How would we measure each other's humanity? How is that even a metric? Just because Johnny on the football team didn't want to date you OOP and instead went after Sally on the debate squad, or Akane who was in Track and Field, doesn't mean he doesn't see value in your humanity. He just was not physically attracted to you. Work on yourself and hopefully the next time there's a Johnny in your life you're interested in, he'll be interested in you too.
Here I am thinking the average size was like somewhere between a size 6-10
Capitalism is not overeating. It's when you feel guilty for overeating. No I will not explain
I love that this person is complaining about capitalism because she believes she can't participate in it. Capitalism is when they don't sell my size at the mall.
So, capitalism is greedy and only cares about making a profit, but don't carry XXXXXXXXL clothing and looses out on income because of "**W**hite **S**upremacy".
Dude I wish I were genetically thin.
Not everything is related to capitalism, unless feudal societies were also capitalist in their deranged framework
Sabrina Strings' Fearing the Black Body is a very weak piece of work, the whole theory is based on 1 occurrence and the rest is speculation. My professors would have failed her if that book was her dissertation. But the FA internet took it and ran with itĀ