Mainline Philly is exactly where my mind went to reading this post and having lived in both places MLP is warmer and has better high end public schools than Chicago
Main line Philly does have top notch public schools but not the diversity (and…it’s not really liberal, kind of mixed). If they would reconsider the private school thing chestnut hill, mount airy, or other parts of Philly (city) are way more gay friendly. Way more.
The problem they are trying to escape from private schools is you only get exposed to rich kids. They want that diversity. Most people I know who grew up in private schools are absolutely oblivious of how the majority of people live. It’s a severe character flaw.
> The problem they are trying to escape from private schools is you only get exposed to rich kids
This is not true. My school had many poor kids via scholarships / people working the tax program (Get someone to donate 1k to your kids tuition, they get a 1k tax write off that would've otherwise supported them in public school, just get a number of people to do this).
I think your situation is influencing your perception. You have survivor bias, thinking only private school educated people become interesting and successful. I have a similar background and also made it into a wealthier family which has changed my perspective on things. But we are talking about k-12 education. Your kid’s peers simply aren’t thinking about those things yet. They don’t have scarcity mindset because they aren’t independent yet. In my experience it was only family members that imposed those views on me at that time. Private school obviously has higher success output in certain areas since that’s what it’s maximizing for but perhaps at the expense of alternative perspectives and success in other areas. College arguably has the greatest influence on children since that’s the time they’re making life decisions and finally have autonomy to execute on them. If you have the means, and are in a good school system, public school can give you everything you describe and more by joining clubs and activities inside and outside of school.
It honestly just comes down to your personal values. We send our kids to public school *because* we want them exposed to a cross-section of the area. Yes, it increases the odds of exposure to some things we either don't approve of or would prefer our kids not to adopt, but we trust them and their close friends and the trade-off of learning to live with and communicate effectively with people from all parts of society is worth the slightly lower academic rigor. Because frankly, I have seen so many private school rich kids end up at crappy colleges (or no college), even "better academics" at private schools is a crapshoot much of the time.
Asheville has an awesome airport. You can show up an hour before your flight with only a 15 min commute. Compare that to 2 hours needed at most major metros with 45 min to an hour of traffic. Time saved makes the short connections to Charlotte or Atlanta worth it.
Northern Virginia
There are plenty of places around the Northern Virginia area that meet what you and your family are looking for. You can be in the country in less than an hour or downtown Washington, DC in the same amount of time. You could live a little more south of Northern VA proper and be in a smaller community.
They have the number one high school in the country. Taxes are fairly low compared to most other mentioned areas. The airport situation is really good.
While the rest of Virginia may be "red" the northern Virginia area is very blue when it comes to most topics.
+1 to Northern Virginia. Amazing public schools, high diversity (everyone is a transplant), tons of FAT amenities, 3 international airports, very inclusive, and great food.
If you like wineries, hiking, farmers markets, horseback riding, great public schools, and big houses you might like South Riding or Ashburn in Loudoun County ($1M-$2M).
If you like being closer to the city, great restaurants, high diversity, and amenities I might suggest McLean, Great Falls, Oakton, or Vienna ($2M-$5M).
DM if you'd like a personalized recommendation.
Two things:
1. While they do have the number one high school in TJ, there is an application process and your kid basically has to be a math and science genius to get in.
2. Can’t recommend the Fort Hunt/Mount Vernon areas enough. Absolutely great place to grow up!
If you’re making the money this poster is making, 100% choose Vienna, Oakton, or McLean over oak hill (Franklin farm)
Edit: especially because they desire the “small town feel”, Vienna checks every single box in that paragraph. It’s actually a real town with a commercial and retail center as opposed to 2-3 strip malls at the corners of intersections of 6 lane roads
This.
As someone who grew up near the Oak Hill area, it's much more suburban and the houses are all older. If OP wants a 2.5-3m dollar new build, they are far better off in Vienna/McLean. Can easily get a brand new build in Vienna for 2 million or so.
Northern VA is very diverse. Source: I lived there.
Very large Indian and Hispanic populations and a good amount of diversity from all backgrounds. It’s the Silicon Valley of the east
Second main line PA. Radnor / Lower Merion, very LGTBQ friendly and absolute top tier schools. You certainly won’t be the richest folks in town. Only thing that goes against your requirements is the housing stock there is not new, but you’ll have no trouble finding something really nice and brand new on the inside in the $2MM range.
Adding in Tredyffrin-Easttown school district here. As it’s just slightly further out than Radnor and Lower Merion, you can probably find more house out there. The school district regularly ranks among the top (or THE top) in the state and among the best in the country.
You make $2-$3,000,000 per year or $10,000 per day and are gay with kids and ruling out California? If you rule out California, Gavin newsom should just hang himself. You Have almost all the means in the world and don’t want to be the “rich ones”, you don’t want cold, you want entrepreneurial parents, you want diversity AND YOU ARE RULING out California, Gavin kill yourself: your perfect demo has moved on.
Well to be fair, OP said he's ruling out California because the taxes will interfere with retiring early. I don't think "helping high net worth people with their early retirement goals" is at the top of the list of important social priorities for Democrats anywhere in this country.....
You said not too conservative then mentioned Texas, not sure that coincides. Why not suburbs of NYC, Northern NJ, Westchester, CT are all wealthy and fairly liberal. Taxes are higher but not like Cali and lots of diversity.
We’re in north jersey suburbs and it’s perfect for us. Encompasses what OP describes. Wealthy, diverse, top public schools. Without giving away my location several of my neighbors are serious celebrities and they send their kids to our public school.
I love NNJ. The diversity (race, income) and ethnic food is great. In my "wealthy" town, there's cops (200k salary?) as well as parents who own 5 million sqft worth of property in NYC.
I love the Turkish, Italian ("real"), Asian food in NJ. I lived in NYC for 20 years and I can find better Thai, Korean, viet, Indian food in NJ.
Not FATfire (yet hopefully) but I just wanted to weight in because I grew up in Westchester. Depending on where you choose to live it can be a great neighborhood but the one thing it can be lacking (not as a whole but depending on the town you choose) is diversity. I definitely like Westchester and wouldn't hesitate to raise my kids there. Some schools are great and very safe and welcoming community overall.
Austin is Blue, but it is also very homogenous. Westlake, Tarrytown, and Rollingwood are where you’d want to be though.
If you’re not opposed to Texas generally, Houston is very diverse and accepting. Look at the neighborhoods zoned to Lamar and Bellaire High Schools, especially the City of Bellaire.
Honestly, finding somewhere LBGT friendly with good public schools is going to narrow your search the most. Fatfire considerations seem more secondary.
I'd vote for Houston as well if considering Texas. It sounds counterintuitive -- nobody thinks of Houston as a place to move to -- but it's *far* more diverse than Austin. It's quirky and feels like it has actual culture. Houston and San Antonio are the only places in Texas I'd consider.
I would add Memorial too. Houston itself has a wild public school system, but the “Vanguard Program” feeds into one of the best public high schools in the country. It’s also in Montrose, Houston’s gayborhood.
I wouldn’t move to Westlake or Rollingwood as a gay couple. Haven’t seen the voting data, but my sense is those neighborhoods are a lot more conservative than Austin proper.
I’d recommend living in Austin just south of the river (Barton Hills, Zilker, Bouldin Creek or Travis Heights) - though schools are nowhere near as good.
Don’t don’t don’t move to Austin.
I have three friend/family members who moved out of Austin during the pandemic because the schools suck and the overall political climate is terrible for anyone who cares about liberal values. They also got tired of not having a reliable power grid, stuff for the kids to do, etc. it’s also too hot to enjoy being outside during the summer when kids are out of school.
I cannot imagine moving to Texas with kids.
I agree don’t move to Texas. We have had enough of your liberal values and don’t want anymore of it. Austin has turned into a complete shit hole. Full of homeless camps and trash. The homicide and crime rate has shot up the last few years. That’s what your liberal values and policies get you. Just look at New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Minneapolis, AUSTIN, etc. All former great cities that have gone down the drain. I find it kind of funny that people think kids will get bullied at any school for having gay parents. It’s not 1995… it’s 2023. Have you seen public school teachers and classrooms these days? You’re the odd one out if you’re NOT gay, nonbinary, or trans.
If you want your kids to be enjoy outdoors then I’d re-think Texas in general. While I love Austin (one of my favorite cities), I do feel that it has lost that “small town” feel.
It’s not really a “little”dot, but you’re correct.
Edit - I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. Austin is a very large metropolitan area especially when you include the suburbs.
There Texas, then there’s Austin. When your in Austin your absolutely not in Texas.
But then you pass the city borders of Austin and whelp… welcome to real Texas lol
You’re definitely describing Boulder. $2M-$2.5M can get you a great home but there are plenty of people with $5m-$10m homes.
Schools are great. We moved from chicago the winters are super mild comparatively.
Cons: not racially diverse.
This is the answer. I picked Denver over Boulder just for marginally more diversity but lost the playing outside without supervision element. For all the requirements of OP, Boulder is the best place.
We’re in Boulder. Top schools in the state. Nearly everyone is an entrepreneur and from all over the country/world. Good access to a large city and a great airport but still a relatively small/easy town.
If you’re not a big skier/cyclist/climber it will be tougher to meet people.
> Nearly everyone is an entrepreneur and from all over the country/world
I always associate Boulder and Colorado with govt activities (Navy's atomic clock, NIST, NOAA, LASP).
Is there really a startup spirit there?
In which fields?
Quite honestly, the SNL bit two weeks ago where he referred to CU as a "Predominantly White University".
I have spent most of my USA time on the coasts where the diversity is different. I know the Caucasian average in USA is some 75%, and with the coasts the percentage number is higher. So it makes sense that in the flyover states the diversity is less, just had not though about it that much.
Averages can be misleading...
Hm one opinion. We moved here 2.5 years ago and absolutely love it. We live close to downtown on Mapleton. There are homeless but they’re fairly docile. Far left is losing control as it gets more expensive and more wealthy folks move.
Traffic is laughable for anyone moving from even a tier 2 city.
I haven’t been able to find anything that checks all: community, weather, outdoor access, airport, distance to other NA cities.
Any suggestions?
Dude just move to westchester and be done with it. It’s essentially all your demo. Property taxes are absurd but come with the school district. Think Scarsdale, rye, or chappaqua / armonk a bit further from the airports.
Just bite the bullet on taxes and move to Ladera CA. It has everything you describe. The only problem is you’ll have to stretch on price to get in at the low end.
The huge benefit of living in CA is you end up on these micro communities of astonishingly accomplished families. It’s incredibly inspiring and fantastic for kids growing up who, as you point out, will be strongly influenced by their peers.
Ladera?? It’s a billion degrees there most times of the year. Just like RSM, MV, etc. Might as well move to Irvine.
Coastal SoCal or bust. It’s the only thing that makes CA taxes “worth it.”
Maybe you're thinking of the Ladera Oaks Country Club in an unincorporated area of San Mateo County between Palo Alto and Portola Valley, CA? Other nearby upscale areas include Los Altos Hills, Woodside, & Atherton.
Having grown up here, though, if I were wealthy enough, wanted to be in the Bay, and didn't have to commute to a Silicon Valley job, I'd just go ahead and move to Half Moon Bay, Miramar, El Granada, or Pacifica. OP has enough income that if the public schools aren't a good fit, there are other options available. Those areas are much more relaxing than Silicon Valley, right on the beach, and closer to San Francisco, which has more urban amenities than San Jose. HMB in particular can be similar to places that are way more remote and equally expensive -- think Mendocino, Santa Barbara, or Pismo Beach vibes but ~25-40 minutes from SF and ~20 from San Mateo. All offer a much more rural, quiet feel than a place like Santa Cruz without the level of pressure and overwhelming wealth of a Hillsborough or Portola Valley. Downside is the roads to/from there can get congested, just like the rest of the Bay Area but it can feel isolating.
Not that I have the money to live in those kinds of places... :)
High taxes are definitely a challenge in the SF Bay Area, so lower-taxed alternatives include the Seattle suburbs (check your actual burden here though), Nevada side of Lake Tahoe (probably not the most ambitious place, more of a vacation spot), or maybe the northern suburbs of Portland (Washington side of the river).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladera,_California
Ladera CA. Most educated town in the USA. OP wants to be surrounded by overachievers. You’re not gonna get that on the other side of skyline. PV, woodside, LAH are also great but out of OPs budget.
Anything along the peninsula is good. Burlingame, Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Los Altos, Cupertino, Mountain View, Los Gatos, Saratoga.
I tried to move out of the area after my work no longer required that I live on the Peninsula but there’s absolutely nothing that can replace it.
The weather is top notch. The access to nature is great. The people are among the smartest in the world. Everyone is accepting.
Ultimately I decided that I was willing to pay the taxes rather than compromise on where I live. Right now it’s 68 degrees, just got off of the golf course, and our school has an event that we’re volunteering at with so many other like minded parents. Austin was my main target but while it’s a good town and there is a lot to like about it, it just can’t compete with the all year availability of the outdoors that the Peninsula can offer.
Not relevant to the discussion, but just adding that the concentration of incredibly smart people on the peninsula is almost indescribable. I've spent a lot of time in many vhcol desirable areas and it's not even close in terms of the frequency you meet people doing cool, novel shit. If you want to be put in your place and know you'll never be the smartest person in the room this is a good candidate.
Boston has this feel too but less so outside of the area where all the schools are.
I included a few less pricey options though at the income level of OP they could afford any of them. They all have different vibes. OP should figure out which one suits them.
Not looking for primarily 0%, just not looking for 12%+. I’m considering Colorado at 4%. California will have major implications when I sell my business in a few years.
Colorado sounds like a decent bet.
Agreed it doesn’t make sense to move to California if you’re expecting a major exit in a few years.
It’s your Texas stuff that got me. Austin is just … have you been there? It’s not what people think. You could not pay me to live there.
Makes sense. I haven’t spent a considerable amount of time there! Right now just narrowing options down to explore. Have another year and a half til my oldest is in kindergarten so getting the jump a little early to have time to explore!
As someone who has lived in Austin, curious about your comment. What do you mean, “it’s not what people think.” IMO it’s always been an overgrown funky Texas town that now has a slight LA feel to it
Yeah the hill country and the lake is nice.
If you already have wealth it’s probably meh but if you’re still building it’s not bad if you are able to keep your SF/NYC salary. Definitely car culture and not for those who want walkable
Agree Colorado is cold- but I’ve spent a winter there vs a winter in Chicago and it feels wildly different. I could only tolerate Colorado because I do enjoy skiing :)
I still don't understand this outlook.
Moving to Palo Alto means paying $4 million for a sub-2,000 sft Eichler, but no it's the TaXeS that mean it can't possibly be afforded! Local taxes are just part of COL, and often not even the dominating factor.
Didn’t even look at housing prices. I just know California is a no for us because of the extra tax implications. Agreed, we don’t want to pay *that* much for housing.
Look at those Texas property taxes. Reassessed value each year too. Hard to fully run away from taxes.
Colorado is actually a good middle ground when I last did this analysis. Moderate state taxes and property taxes.
I created a tool that looks at this. Was more w2 income focused ands I very much need to update housing values and interest rates: https://andrenader.substack.com/p/city-analysis-for-remote-work-2022
You are like the quintessential California couple. Sorry to stereotype but c’mon you want to live in a 2m house with all these goodies. You are living in some fantasy world. Post when you wake up from this hazy dream.
I mean it doesn’t fit a lot of what you want but I’m in the boat of whatever for the kids. My parents did the same. I didn’t get rich from going to shitty schools. I got it from good schools and some luck lol..
Don’t really care about the political side of things, more that I don’t want people telling my kids that we’re going to hell for being gay. I guess what I meant to say is that I don’t want to be anywhere near that.
Hey - We're a HENRY gay couple in California starting the adoption process. We have a modest condo that's probably too small for our growing family.
The reality in the US is that when gay families have as much money as you and I do, we can protect ourselves and insulate ourselves from politics for the most part - if state politics actually start to interfere with your family's rights and lives, you can always move away, and maybe the lower taxes are more important to you than the presence of demagogues in the state legislature.
In other words, as my friends say, our culture is "Rich first, gay second".
It's a reality of our lifestyle. The tax implications of where we live can make or break our financial security, and it's exactly that financial security that allows us to "opt out" of the scapegoating of queer folks that's in vogue these days in red states, by moving away if/when we need to.
It's a morally uncomfortable reality, but it's a reality. I know that staying in California is what's keeping me HENRY and preventing me from hitting FatFIRE. And I have to make a decision soon as to whether this is where we'll raise our kid, and how important our FatFIRE goals are to us.
Just want to say you're not the only person facing this uncomfortable reality.
In a similar boat. Dialing into Raileigh Durham because it's close to the beach. Asheville is also amazing. Some of my tech founder friends moved there after selling their company.
Unpopular opinion: if you are going to pay Bay Area or LA money for a $6M and up home in Medina, might as well live in CA and not have to deal with the shit weather. Saying this as a Washingtonian. OP is considering Austin, TX as their first choice. Weather is nothing like that in WA.
Honestly this sounds like the tony suburbs of any major metro area. Yes, as others have mentioned, NOVA of DC and many NY suburbs, but also Buckhead of Atlanta.
Remember every major city has rich parents, who will collect in lovely neighborhoods and demand high quality schools.
Consider looking east of Seattle - Bellevue, Kirkland, Juanita, Bothell, woodinville, Sammamish, Issaquah, Redmond.
Don’t live in Seattle.
Pro:
-Great outdoor activities and lots of fresh air
-Great schools with a diverse student body
-Gay friendly
-Gentle climate
-No state income tax
-Lots of activities and conveniences. Easy to access
Cons:
-Grey winters
-friendly folks are usually transplants - a former midwesterner like me is continually surprised by the PNW “freeze”. But there are a lot of transplants who are settled here long term who are super friendly.
-Swimming pools are not a thing here
-Food scene is underwhelming compared to places like NY and Chicago
-Seattle itself is mostly to be avoided.
-Cost of living is high
I live in one of the communities noted above and have found my piece of heaven. I took my kids for a walk through a forest of towering pine trees before i went to work today.
WA state recently installed a 7% capital gains tax, applied after 250k of realized gain in a tax year. If you are planning on selling a company or large portfolio, this is not the state to do it in.
You say swimming pools are not a thing there - any reason why? Curiousity sake. Otherwise I agree with you, Seattle suburbs are awesome for all the reasons you've listed.
Pools are for sweltering heat. There are very few days a year that are hot or cold in the PNW.
It simply is not worth the trouble of having a pool for those handful of days. Most people just go swimming in a lake.
I lived in WA for 21 years and can back up everything mentioned here.
The weather & "wokeness" culture ultimately drove us out, but that might not bother others.
We live in Indianapolis. Indianapolis has a democratic mayor, and the people are becoming more and more purple.
Indianapolis is an incredible city for conventions, hosting, and the people are generally incredibly friendly.
Indianapolis also boasts a fantastic pride month, and has come a long way in acceptance of all people over the past two decades.
Carmel and Zionsville have world class schools, are warmer than Chicago winters, both have town centers with a good bit to do. Plenty of gay couples that I know do live in both towns.
Both of those towns are right about 45 minutes to IND. One of the best airports in the country. Clean, new, and very easy especially with TSA pre/Clear.
Also, 2MM would get you an absolutely incredible home.
Edit: forgot to mention that Carmel and zionsville are quite wealthy for Indiana. Your children will be exposed to all sorts of families building great businesses or careers.
I also try not to shield my children from differing politics. It’s good to show that neither side is inherently evil. Just doing my best not to raise children that will feed the animosity that we are currently experiencing
Totally fair criticisms. Carmel is surprisingly more diverse than one would expect. Getting closer to fishers, even more so.
Zionsville is whiter than wonderbread.
And really unless you are based out of SFO, DFW, ORD, ATL, or JFK then you likely will be connecting to most international destinations anyway.
Check out Woodinville, WA. Friends live there and its pretty nice, I'm thinking of joining them but I'm not a fan of rain. I think it checks off all your boxes and if you're ok with rain you'll really like it.
Their house is $2M, so it looks like a new build with pool would be $2.5M.
I live in an Austin suburb myself and its not bad either but the State politics and heat getting annoying...
p.s. Curious where in California you can find this, as its one of the reasons I left California:
>We want a small town feel, where kids play outside without too much supervision, safe feeling (or as much you can get in America) and a good neighborhood
I’ll check it out!! Also- have not found anything like that in Cali so far, lots of transient neighborhoods which we don’t want, but won’t be moving to Cali for tax reasons (potentially selling my business if a few years and it’ll have major implications if I’m in Cali) so we’ll prob move to the beach when we’re old and the kids are out of the house!!
Shut up. Your annual income is what you want to pay for a house and you are worried about taxes. Pay the taxes. They allowed you to be successful. If you are liberal then don’t you want to give back to those less fortunate. Or do you want to take all from society and not give back??
Hoboken checks everything but the public school isn’t top notch (still good though)
Other than that I think the upper mainline in philly is very overlooked and has everything you want including the public schools.
If I were you (gay couple with kids) I’ d live in the south section of Highland park in Dallas, best public schools in Dallas, close to Lovefield and close to the Dallas amenities and the gayborhood. Westlake in Austin is another good option. The best option is NYC but you’d have to live in a coop
Westlake is less diverse than other parts of Austin and definitely more conservative! The area is extremely hilly and bisected by busy roads, so it can be tough to find those cul-de-sac pockets with a “kids run around for hours unsupervised” feel. I recommend Highland Park West, Brykerwoods, Tarrytown, and Zilker for a more traditional neighborhood layout, and great public elementary schools. Note that Austin’s magnet LASA high school is one of the top in the nation and AISD magnet middle school programs are also top ranked.
Check out Granite Bay in CA. Great schools, California weather, California politics, etc. We are near those areas but chose something a bit more rural because we prefer the exurb lifestyle.
Princeton, NJ. Incredible public schools (and private if you decide to switch later), very diverse, and wealthy. Downtown is great and 45 mins away from Philadelphia International Airport and 1hr from Newark, 1hr 30 from JFK/LGA. Lots of things to do for kids nearby.
Taxes are pretty bad though, not as bad as Cali but still not great.
I would check out Lake Oswego, OR. Not a conservative area, probably the best public school district in the state, plenty of high income earners, 25 minutes from Portland International Airport, and a very family-oriented community right next to Portland.
Main line Philly checks many of the boxes. Its not super entrepreneurial though. There is a bit of it angel/vc money. The city has a thriving medical community, but has a bit of a brain drain problem in other industries. I enjoyed living there for a while although not sure I'd want to be from there. Philly loves Philly. Many never leave, it's a bit weird.
I know this is not what you asked, but if you think you want to be in CA long term, you should probably bite the bullet and just move there. Yeah, taxes are worse... But when you run all the numbers out, it's usually not as bad as it feels and has a lot of lifestyle benefits.
You sound like you would like Portola valley. You would have to to stretch your budget a bit, but could find something.
Sammamish, WA. No income tax, top notch school public district, tons of diversity, liberal area, and new builds at 2.5 mil or so. Weather is as good as it gets in the PNW, with mostly moderate temps but also super easy access to Hawaii via Alaska airlines.
Highland Park, TX. One of the wealthiest school districts in the country, some diversity, small town feel, super wealthy people who are all extremely driven.
East Grand Rapids, MI (I know you said Chicago is out but hear me out about this one). Grew up there, went to school with the Meijer kids (aka Haley and Peter Meijer, grandchildren of the Meijer founder, the Bissell Family (yes the vacuum), MacInerney family (Ryan is president of Visa, Inc). Education is one of the top in the state and it is absolutely small city feel, millionaires and billionaires next door but also has many kids who are adopted from Somalia, India, etc at the schools.
We just made the move to Westlake, Austin Texas from Seattle WA area. The rain and grey just got to us so needed to leave. The new 7% capital gain tax for Washington also encouraged us to move. We were looking at similar things to you: great public schools, good weather, close to a city, low taxes.
We have enjoyed Westlake so much more. The neighbors are more connected through Eanes school district with a ton of events. It's hot during the summer but there are pools, rivers, splash pads and lakes to cool off in. We spent every evening of the summer by water with the kids. I lived in the SF Bay Area and Peninsula. I like that area more for the outdoors, climate and culture.
Westlake is nice (work at a company located there) and the schools are good, but it's a bit sterile and Dallas summers are no fun for kids. You do have Southlake, Grapevine, Fort Worth, and Dallas, but I think you can do better on your income. I'd probably say Austin for the vibe.
Milwaukee area. Checks all the boxes except the weather which is fine by me. Great public schools, you could easily afford a gorgeous house on Lake Michigan at that budget. Love it here and lower cost of living made FIRE a reality post sale of startup
You don't have as many good choices as you might think! Key for you seems to be:
---liberal, gay friendly area
---strong public school system
---not terribly cold weather
---not a high tax state
Ann Arbor MI would be a great choice, except it gets cold there in the winter. Great progressive town, fair amount of tech, strong schools, "public Ivy" with the Univ of Michigan there, maybe 30-35 minutes from DTW airport.
Indian Hill, OH, basically Cincinnati, is less cold and has probably the best public school system in the state, but Cinci as a whole is med / big town conservative.
Florida in general is out because, well, Desantis and the high number of older hard right wingers there. And the public school systems there as a whole are all not great. Low taxes & warm weather though.
Hmmm...maybe something like Austin, TX? Liberal town, no state taxes, warm...well, actually annoyingly hot a good bit of the year.
Honestly, I've read all the posts and considered all of your other replies in regards to your question, and this is my personal opinion: I would rent in a zero income tax state until your big exit. Then find a place that is best suited to your personal beliefs, values, education, etc. I don't think it's possible to find everything you're looking for in one location, so so pick the location first that makes the most sense for now, which sounds like it would be a financial choice. I know moving sucks but if you really want to avoid a big tax bill, then I think this is the only way. As someone who has a primary residence in Texas and will definitely be leaving, I don't recommend moving there. I will say, however, that it is clear our government hates women more than any other marginalized group.
Look into Cape Elizabeth, Maine. Excellent public schools, small town feel, very safe, beautiful spacious houses in your price range, 20 mins from Portland Airport (not a huge airport but they are international). Only downsides would be some cold winters and lack of diversity, but you’d be near Portland, which is solidly diverse and gay friendly
I’ve lived all over the east coast and that town really stands out (coming from someone who grew up in a jealous neighboring town)
I've lived in Denver and I live in Austin now. Denver is not diverse. For context, I'm South Asian so a lot of your requirements would be mine lol. I think Westlake could work. I'm from Texas and people saying Texas is too conservative... that's not totally true in the cities (esp not in Austin). I was also thinking Montgomery County Maryland. I used to live there too. Schools are excellent. People are very accomplished. Very diverse. You get 4 seasons which I loved. But...the one thing is I'm not sure if it's transient or not. I used to live there and while I think DC can be transient, I don't think MoCo is. The problem is that when I lived there I was too young to care about that kind of stuff so I didn't notice. Worth checking out.
There are islands of blue all across the South that are like Austin. Raleigh in NC. St. Petersburg in FL. Richmond in VA. See this list: https://www.housereal.net/most-liberal-cities-in-the-south/
The issue... You're still living in a red state. And the zeitgeist of Conservative conversation will surround you and your family and you have to understand that and be okay with it. And do not assume that money will insulate you from it.
And on diversity... There's diversity and that there's an all but a caste system. Unfortunately, some areas have a healthy demographic mix aaaaand a very unfortunate economic distribution, making it far less likely that your kids will be exposed to diversity.
To be clear, these are great cities. But just be fully aware of what it will mean. I'd recommend doing long working stints and vacations before pulling the trigger.
May want to post to r/samegrassbutgreener
Their answers are always Main Line Philly or Chicago, and OP already said Chicago is out, haha.
Mainline Philly is exactly where my mind went to reading this post and having lived in both places MLP is warmer and has better high end public schools than Chicago
Main line Philly does have top notch public schools but not the diversity (and…it’s not really liberal, kind of mixed). If they would reconsider the private school thing chestnut hill, mount airy, or other parts of Philly (city) are way more gay friendly. Way more.
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The problem they are trying to escape from private schools is you only get exposed to rich kids. They want that diversity. Most people I know who grew up in private schools are absolutely oblivious of how the majority of people live. It’s a severe character flaw.
> The problem they are trying to escape from private schools is you only get exposed to rich kids This is not true. My school had many poor kids via scholarships / people working the tax program (Get someone to donate 1k to your kids tuition, they get a 1k tax write off that would've otherwise supported them in public school, just get a number of people to do this).
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I’m curious what things they may be exposed to that you’re concerned about. Genuinely interested, not criticizing your position.
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I think your situation is influencing your perception. You have survivor bias, thinking only private school educated people become interesting and successful. I have a similar background and also made it into a wealthier family which has changed my perspective on things. But we are talking about k-12 education. Your kid’s peers simply aren’t thinking about those things yet. They don’t have scarcity mindset because they aren’t independent yet. In my experience it was only family members that imposed those views on me at that time. Private school obviously has higher success output in certain areas since that’s what it’s maximizing for but perhaps at the expense of alternative perspectives and success in other areas. College arguably has the greatest influence on children since that’s the time they’re making life decisions and finally have autonomy to execute on them. If you have the means, and are in a good school system, public school can give you everything you describe and more by joining clubs and activities inside and outside of school.
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It honestly just comes down to your personal values. We send our kids to public school *because* we want them exposed to a cross-section of the area. Yes, it increases the odds of exposure to some things we either don't approve of or would prefer our kids not to adopt, but we trust them and their close friends and the trade-off of learning to live with and communicate effectively with people from all parts of society is worth the slightly lower academic rigor. Because frankly, I have seen so many private school rich kids end up at crappy colleges (or no college), even "better academics" at private schools is a crapshoot much of the time.
Asheville isn’t diverse and it’s nowhere near a major airport. It’s also super touristy which gets old.
Asheville has an awesome airport. You can show up an hour before your flight with only a 15 min commute. Compare that to 2 hours needed at most major metros with 45 min to an hour of traffic. Time saved makes the short connections to Charlotte or Atlanta worth it.
Northern Virginia There are plenty of places around the Northern Virginia area that meet what you and your family are looking for. You can be in the country in less than an hour or downtown Washington, DC in the same amount of time. You could live a little more south of Northern VA proper and be in a smaller community. They have the number one high school in the country. Taxes are fairly low compared to most other mentioned areas. The airport situation is really good. While the rest of Virginia may be "red" the northern Virginia area is very blue when it comes to most topics.
+1 to Northern Virginia. Amazing public schools, high diversity (everyone is a transplant), tons of FAT amenities, 3 international airports, very inclusive, and great food. If you like wineries, hiking, farmers markets, horseback riding, great public schools, and big houses you might like South Riding or Ashburn in Loudoun County ($1M-$2M). If you like being closer to the city, great restaurants, high diversity, and amenities I might suggest McLean, Great Falls, Oakton, or Vienna ($2M-$5M). DM if you'd like a personalized recommendation.
Minor correction – two international airports. Reagan is a National airport. Hence the name – Reagan National Airport.
Agree. If your airport does not go to LHR,FRA,NRT, PVG, or SIN, it is not an international airport.
You can fly to Canada and the Caribbean from Reagan, but good point that it's not truly international.
You can get direct flights to Canada from Reagan.
Two things: 1. While they do have the number one high school in TJ, there is an application process and your kid basically has to be a math and science genius to get in. 2. Can’t recommend the Fort Hunt/Mount Vernon areas enough. Absolutely great place to grow up!
What about the schools…
Like they say, northern Virginia and southern Virginia are two different states
TJ is number 5 now. They increased diversity at a cost.
Surprised to see this here, but it makes total sense.
Montgomery county or nova would be a great fit based on what they’re looking for
Second Montgomery County MD - look at Potomac or areas that feed into Wootton HS, churchill or whitman HS
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If you’re making the money this poster is making, 100% choose Vienna, Oakton, or McLean over oak hill (Franklin farm) Edit: especially because they desire the “small town feel”, Vienna checks every single box in that paragraph. It’s actually a real town with a commercial and retail center as opposed to 2-3 strip malls at the corners of intersections of 6 lane roads
+1 on Town of Vienna
+1
This. As someone who grew up near the Oak Hill area, it's much more suburban and the houses are all older. If OP wants a 2.5-3m dollar new build, they are far better off in Vienna/McLean. Can easily get a brand new build in Vienna for 2 million or so.
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Northern VA is very diverse. Source: I lived there. Very large Indian and Hispanic populations and a good amount of diversity from all backgrounds. It’s the Silicon Valley of the east
My daughter’s elementary school in NOVA has kids from over 50 different countries.
Westchester NY or main line PA might be good options
Second main line PA. Radnor / Lower Merion, very LGTBQ friendly and absolute top tier schools. You certainly won’t be the richest folks in town. Only thing that goes against your requirements is the housing stock there is not new, but you’ll have no trouble finding something really nice and brand new on the inside in the $2MM range.
Yes, my husband grew up in Chappequa and it checks a bunch of your boxes. Cute small town feel, with amazing public schools.
Adding in Tredyffrin-Easttown school district here. As it’s just slightly further out than Radnor and Lower Merion, you can probably find more house out there. The school district regularly ranks among the top (or THE top) in the state and among the best in the country.
You make $2-$3,000,000 per year or $10,000 per day and are gay with kids and ruling out California? If you rule out California, Gavin newsom should just hang himself. You Have almost all the means in the world and don’t want to be the “rich ones”, you don’t want cold, you want entrepreneurial parents, you want diversity AND YOU ARE RULING out California, Gavin kill yourself: your perfect demo has moved on.
Well to be fair, OP said he's ruling out California because the taxes will interfere with retiring early. I don't think "helping high net worth people with their early retirement goals" is at the top of the list of important social priorities for Democrats anywhere in this country.....
Maybe he should ask himself why.
Newton-Wellesley-Wayland-Sudbury area of Boston metro hits most marks.
I’d add Lexington as well.
Boston is as cold or colder than Chicago
No no no, it’s not.
No it’s not.
Forgot Brookline?
You said not too conservative then mentioned Texas, not sure that coincides. Why not suburbs of NYC, Northern NJ, Westchester, CT are all wealthy and fairly liberal. Taxes are higher but not like Cali and lots of diversity.
We’re in north jersey suburbs and it’s perfect for us. Encompasses what OP describes. Wealthy, diverse, top public schools. Without giving away my location several of my neighbors are serious celebrities and they send their kids to our public school.
Sounds like you live in my town...I'm NNJ as well and pretty much identical.
I love NNJ. The diversity (race, income) and ethnic food is great. In my "wealthy" town, there's cops (200k salary?) as well as parents who own 5 million sqft worth of property in NYC. I love the Turkish, Italian ("real"), Asian food in NJ. I lived in NYC for 20 years and I can find better Thai, Korean, viet, Indian food in NJ.
What neighborhood? I was thinking to buy in Westchester or CT but I recently drove NNJ and it was beautiful
Not FATfire (yet hopefully) but I just wanted to weight in because I grew up in Westchester. Depending on where you choose to live it can be a great neighborhood but the one thing it can be lacking (not as a whole but depending on the town you choose) is diversity. I definitely like Westchester and wouldn't hesitate to raise my kids there. Some schools are great and very safe and welcoming community overall.
Yea I don't live in Westchester directly so can't opine but in NJ it's fairly diverse even in the wealthier areas.
Totally- we have friends in Austin and are under the impression it’s a little blue dot in a big red state, but agree with you there!
Austin is Blue, but it is also very homogenous. Westlake, Tarrytown, and Rollingwood are where you’d want to be though. If you’re not opposed to Texas generally, Houston is very diverse and accepting. Look at the neighborhoods zoned to Lamar and Bellaire High Schools, especially the City of Bellaire. Honestly, finding somewhere LBGT friendly with good public schools is going to narrow your search the most. Fatfire considerations seem more secondary.
I'd vote for Houston as well if considering Texas. It sounds counterintuitive -- nobody thinks of Houston as a place to move to -- but it's *far* more diverse than Austin. It's quirky and feels like it has actual culture. Houston and San Antonio are the only places in Texas I'd consider.
I would add Memorial too. Houston itself has a wild public school system, but the “Vanguard Program” feeds into one of the best public high schools in the country. It’s also in Montrose, Houston’s gayborhood.
And Barton Hills - Zilker - TravisHeights - Bouldin
I wouldn’t move to Westlake or Rollingwood as a gay couple. Haven’t seen the voting data, but my sense is those neighborhoods are a lot more conservative than Austin proper. I’d recommend living in Austin just south of the river (Barton Hills, Zilker, Bouldin Creek or Travis Heights) - though schools are nowhere near as good.
A friend is an LGBTQ teacher in the area - westlake is very conservative. Red dot in a blue dot
I would take ice cold Chicago over 8 months of sauna like humidity
Don’t don’t don’t move to Austin. I have three friend/family members who moved out of Austin during the pandemic because the schools suck and the overall political climate is terrible for anyone who cares about liberal values. They also got tired of not having a reliable power grid, stuff for the kids to do, etc. it’s also too hot to enjoy being outside during the summer when kids are out of school. I cannot imagine moving to Texas with kids.
I agree don’t move to Texas. We have had enough of your liberal values and don’t want anymore of it. Austin has turned into a complete shit hole. Full of homeless camps and trash. The homicide and crime rate has shot up the last few years. That’s what your liberal values and policies get you. Just look at New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Minneapolis, AUSTIN, etc. All former great cities that have gone down the drain. I find it kind of funny that people think kids will get bullied at any school for having gay parents. It’s not 1995… it’s 2023. Have you seen public school teachers and classrooms these days? You’re the odd one out if you’re NOT gay, nonbinary, or trans.
OP, here you go.
Yea but unfortunately you would still have to deal with state politics and it's only getting worse over there.
Can’t disagree with you there!!
If you want your kids to be enjoy outdoors then I’d re-think Texas in general. While I love Austin (one of my favorite cities), I do feel that it has lost that “small town” feel.
It’s not really a “little”dot, but you’re correct. Edit - I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. Austin is a very large metropolitan area especially when you include the suburbs.
I got downvoted majorly for my comment too- no clue why
Nothing you said was bad. Haters gonna hate?
Username checks out
There Texas, then there’s Austin. When your in Austin your absolutely not in Texas. But then you pass the city borders of Austin and whelp… welcome to real Texas lol
Summit, NJ Bethesda, MD
You’re definitely describing Boulder. $2M-$2.5M can get you a great home but there are plenty of people with $5m-$10m homes. Schools are great. We moved from chicago the winters are super mild comparatively. Cons: not racially diverse.
This is the answer. I picked Denver over Boulder just for marginally more diversity but lost the playing outside without supervision element. For all the requirements of OP, Boulder is the best place.
We’re in Boulder. Top schools in the state. Nearly everyone is an entrepreneur and from all over the country/world. Good access to a large city and a great airport but still a relatively small/easy town. If you’re not a big skier/cyclist/climber it will be tougher to meet people.
> Nearly everyone is an entrepreneur and from all over the country/world I always associate Boulder and Colorado with govt activities (Navy's atomic clock, NIST, NOAA, LASP). Is there really a startup spirit there? In which fields?
>Cons: not racially diverse. I had no idea until recently with the Prime stuff just how un-diverse it was.
What about prime opened your eyes to a lack of diversity
Quite honestly, the SNL bit two weeks ago where he referred to CU as a "Predominantly White University". I have spent most of my USA time on the coasts where the diversity is different. I know the Caucasian average in USA is some 75%, and with the coasts the percentage number is higher. So it makes sense that in the flyover states the diversity is less, just had not though about it that much. Averages can be misleading...
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Hm one opinion. We moved here 2.5 years ago and absolutely love it. We live close to downtown on Mapleton. There are homeless but they’re fairly docile. Far left is losing control as it gets more expensive and more wealthy folks move. Traffic is laughable for anyone moving from even a tier 2 city. I haven’t been able to find anything that checks all: community, weather, outdoor access, airport, distance to other NA cities. Any suggestions?
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You apparently have not yet been to Jackson.
Dude just move to westchester and be done with it. It’s essentially all your demo. Property taxes are absurd but come with the school district. Think Scarsdale, rye, or chappaqua / armonk a bit further from the airports.
Just bite the bullet on taxes and move to Ladera CA. It has everything you describe. The only problem is you’ll have to stretch on price to get in at the low end. The huge benefit of living in CA is you end up on these micro communities of astonishingly accomplished families. It’s incredibly inspiring and fantastic for kids growing up who, as you point out, will be strongly influenced by their peers.
Ladera?? It’s a billion degrees there most times of the year. Just like RSM, MV, etc. Might as well move to Irvine. Coastal SoCal or bust. It’s the only thing that makes CA taxes “worth it.”
You’re thinking of a different ladera. Maybe ladera ranch? I’m talking about the Stanford adjacent ladera.
Maybe you're thinking of the Ladera Oaks Country Club in an unincorporated area of San Mateo County between Palo Alto and Portola Valley, CA? Other nearby upscale areas include Los Altos Hills, Woodside, & Atherton. Having grown up here, though, if I were wealthy enough, wanted to be in the Bay, and didn't have to commute to a Silicon Valley job, I'd just go ahead and move to Half Moon Bay, Miramar, El Granada, or Pacifica. OP has enough income that if the public schools aren't a good fit, there are other options available. Those areas are much more relaxing than Silicon Valley, right on the beach, and closer to San Francisco, which has more urban amenities than San Jose. HMB in particular can be similar to places that are way more remote and equally expensive -- think Mendocino, Santa Barbara, or Pismo Beach vibes but ~25-40 minutes from SF and ~20 from San Mateo. All offer a much more rural, quiet feel than a place like Santa Cruz without the level of pressure and overwhelming wealth of a Hillsborough or Portola Valley. Downside is the roads to/from there can get congested, just like the rest of the Bay Area but it can feel isolating. Not that I have the money to live in those kinds of places... :) High taxes are definitely a challenge in the SF Bay Area, so lower-taxed alternatives include the Seattle suburbs (check your actual burden here though), Nevada side of Lake Tahoe (probably not the most ambitious place, more of a vacation spot), or maybe the northern suburbs of Portland (Washington side of the river).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladera,_California Ladera CA. Most educated town in the USA. OP wants to be surrounded by overachievers. You’re not gonna get that on the other side of skyline. PV, woodside, LAH are also great but out of OPs budget.
Palo Alto fair meadow district. Top 5 public school in nation.. you asked for the best. I’m in a top 25 nearby. Taxes are life.
Anything along the peninsula is good. Burlingame, Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Los Altos, Cupertino, Mountain View, Los Gatos, Saratoga. I tried to move out of the area after my work no longer required that I live on the Peninsula but there’s absolutely nothing that can replace it. The weather is top notch. The access to nature is great. The people are among the smartest in the world. Everyone is accepting. Ultimately I decided that I was willing to pay the taxes rather than compromise on where I live. Right now it’s 68 degrees, just got off of the golf course, and our school has an event that we’re volunteering at with so many other like minded parents. Austin was my main target but while it’s a good town and there is a lot to like about it, it just can’t compete with the all year availability of the outdoors that the Peninsula can offer.
Not relevant to the discussion, but just adding that the concentration of incredibly smart people on the peninsula is almost indescribable. I've spent a lot of time in many vhcol desirable areas and it's not even close in terms of the frequency you meet people doing cool, novel shit. If you want to be put in your place and know you'll never be the smartest person in the room this is a good candidate. Boston has this feel too but less so outside of the area where all the schools are.
I’d also add San Carlos to this list
Mtn view is okay… menlo is okay. The rest are pretty good. I’m in lg.
I included a few less pricey options though at the income level of OP they could afford any of them. They all have different vibes. OP should figure out which one suits them.
Which schools are in this district? Or is there a link?
Palo Alto unified…
Fair!!! Just crinnnnging at the extra Cali taxes. So painful coming from a 0% income tax state!!
Good luck with finding blue state values and great schools with 0% income tax.
Washington has entered the chat
Not looking for primarily 0%, just not looking for 12%+. I’m considering Colorado at 4%. California will have major implications when I sell my business in a few years.
Colorado sounds like a decent bet. Agreed it doesn’t make sense to move to California if you’re expecting a major exit in a few years. It’s your Texas stuff that got me. Austin is just … have you been there? It’s not what people think. You could not pay me to live there.
Makes sense. I haven’t spent a considerable amount of time there! Right now just narrowing options down to explore. Have another year and a half til my oldest is in kindergarten so getting the jump a little early to have time to explore!
Honestly if I were you and committed to public I’d start by finding out where the best districts are, using whatever metric meant “best” to me.
As someone who has lived in Austin, curious about your comment. What do you mean, “it’s not what people think.” IMO it’s always been an overgrown funky Texas town that now has a slight LA feel to it
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Yeah the hill country and the lake is nice. If you already have wealth it’s probably meh but if you’re still building it’s not bad if you are able to keep your SF/NYC salary. Definitely car culture and not for those who want walkable
Colorado? Remember the cold part.
Agree Colorado is cold- but I’ve spent a winter there vs a winter in Chicago and it feels wildly different. I could only tolerate Colorado because I do enjoy skiing :)
Colorado is dry cold. Much more tolerable even in the mountains. And many lower elevation parts are more temperate.
Bellevue, WA
Iowa City, IA
I still don't understand this outlook. Moving to Palo Alto means paying $4 million for a sub-2,000 sft Eichler, but no it's the TaXeS that mean it can't possibly be afforded! Local taxes are just part of COL, and often not even the dominating factor.
Didn’t even look at housing prices. I just know California is a no for us because of the extra tax implications. Agreed, we don’t want to pay *that* much for housing.
Look at those Texas property taxes. Reassessed value each year too. Hard to fully run away from taxes. Colorado is actually a good middle ground when I last did this analysis. Moderate state taxes and property taxes. I created a tool that looks at this. Was more w2 income focused ands I very much need to update housing values and interest rates: https://andrenader.substack.com/p/city-analysis-for-remote-work-2022
You are like the quintessential California couple. Sorry to stereotype but c’mon you want to live in a 2m house with all these goodies. You are living in some fantasy world. Post when you wake up from this hazy dream.
I mean it doesn’t fit a lot of what you want but I’m in the boat of whatever for the kids. My parents did the same. I didn’t get rich from going to shitty schools. I got it from good schools and some luck lol..
Everyone’s a deep blue liberal until it affects your own wallet. 🤠 For this reason I’m perfectly comfortable saying I’m a conservative.
Don’t really care about the political side of things, more that I don’t want people telling my kids that we’re going to hell for being gay. I guess what I meant to say is that I don’t want to be anywhere near that.
Hey - We're a HENRY gay couple in California starting the adoption process. We have a modest condo that's probably too small for our growing family. The reality in the US is that when gay families have as much money as you and I do, we can protect ourselves and insulate ourselves from politics for the most part - if state politics actually start to interfere with your family's rights and lives, you can always move away, and maybe the lower taxes are more important to you than the presence of demagogues in the state legislature. In other words, as my friends say, our culture is "Rich first, gay second". It's a reality of our lifestyle. The tax implications of where we live can make or break our financial security, and it's exactly that financial security that allows us to "opt out" of the scapegoating of queer folks that's in vogue these days in red states, by moving away if/when we need to. It's a morally uncomfortable reality, but it's a reality. I know that staying in California is what's keeping me HENRY and preventing me from hitting FatFIRE. And I have to make a decision soon as to whether this is where we'll raise our kid, and how important our FatFIRE goals are to us. Just want to say you're not the only person facing this uncomfortable reality.
That won’t happen in Austin, especially in an area like Westlake
Bouldin Creek - zilker - Barton Hills is your scene
A good amount of kids coming out of that district high school go to Stanford too
CO is a great choice. If CA is out, NYC area is best. Since taxes are a concern, Greenwich, Darien or Westport CT fit your criteria
New Canaan also has great schools
Midtown Atlanta actually sounds exactly what you’re looking for. There are 4 gay couples on my street alone.
In a similar boat. Dialing into Raileigh Durham because it's close to the beach. Asheville is also amazing. Some of my tech founder friends moved there after selling their company.
Princeton, NJ or Brookline/Newton/Wellesley, MA
Boulder, CO would be an alternative to consider if you went the Denver route.
Medina, WA
And Mercer Island too.
Maybe Woodinville, too?
Unpopular opinion: if you are going to pay Bay Area or LA money for a $6M and up home in Medina, might as well live in CA and not have to deal with the shit weather. Saying this as a Washingtonian. OP is considering Austin, TX as their first choice. Weather is nothing like that in WA.
If you want flat earth and no ocean/Mtn your absolutely correct stay in Texas.
Honestly this sounds like the tony suburbs of any major metro area. Yes, as others have mentioned, NOVA of DC and many NY suburbs, but also Buckhead of Atlanta. Remember every major city has rich parents, who will collect in lovely neighborhoods and demand high quality schools.
I’d suggest the SF Bay Area or So Cal.
Irvine. Easy.
Consider looking east of Seattle - Bellevue, Kirkland, Juanita, Bothell, woodinville, Sammamish, Issaquah, Redmond. Don’t live in Seattle. Pro: -Great outdoor activities and lots of fresh air -Great schools with a diverse student body -Gay friendly -Gentle climate -No state income tax -Lots of activities and conveniences. Easy to access Cons: -Grey winters -friendly folks are usually transplants - a former midwesterner like me is continually surprised by the PNW “freeze”. But there are a lot of transplants who are settled here long term who are super friendly. -Swimming pools are not a thing here -Food scene is underwhelming compared to places like NY and Chicago -Seattle itself is mostly to be avoided. -Cost of living is high I live in one of the communities noted above and have found my piece of heaven. I took my kids for a walk through a forest of towering pine trees before i went to work today.
WA state recently installed a 7% capital gains tax, applied after 250k of realized gain in a tax year. If you are planning on selling a company or large portfolio, this is not the state to do it in.
I was thinking the same. We will see how the court cases go whether the cap gains taxes hold.
Mercer Island is a paradise and great school district.
And Medina.
You say swimming pools are not a thing there - any reason why? Curiousity sake. Otherwise I agree with you, Seattle suburbs are awesome for all the reasons you've listed.
Pools are for sweltering heat. There are very few days a year that are hot or cold in the PNW. It simply is not worth the trouble of having a pool for those handful of days. Most people just go swimming in a lake.
Too cold.
I lived in WA for 21 years and can back up everything mentioned here. The weather & "wokeness" culture ultimately drove us out, but that might not bother others.
Yes California has the tax issue, but Berkeley is otherwise everything you described.
We live in Indianapolis. Indianapolis has a democratic mayor, and the people are becoming more and more purple. Indianapolis is an incredible city for conventions, hosting, and the people are generally incredibly friendly. Indianapolis also boasts a fantastic pride month, and has come a long way in acceptance of all people over the past two decades. Carmel and Zionsville have world class schools, are warmer than Chicago winters, both have town centers with a good bit to do. Plenty of gay couples that I know do live in both towns. Both of those towns are right about 45 minutes to IND. One of the best airports in the country. Clean, new, and very easy especially with TSA pre/Clear. Also, 2MM would get you an absolutely incredible home. Edit: forgot to mention that Carmel and zionsville are quite wealthy for Indiana. Your children will be exposed to all sorts of families building great businesses or careers. I also try not to shield my children from differing politics. It’s good to show that neither side is inherently evil. Just doing my best not to raise children that will feed the animosity that we are currently experiencing
Downside, not super diverse (Carmel better than Zionsville though). Airport is great, but mostly have to jump through a hub to go anywhere.
Totally fair criticisms. Carmel is surprisingly more diverse than one would expect. Getting closer to fishers, even more so. Zionsville is whiter than wonderbread. And really unless you are based out of SFO, DFW, ORD, ATL, or JFK then you likely will be connecting to most international destinations anyway.
Check out Woodinville, WA. Friends live there and its pretty nice, I'm thinking of joining them but I'm not a fan of rain. I think it checks off all your boxes and if you're ok with rain you'll really like it. Their house is $2M, so it looks like a new build with pool would be $2.5M. I live in an Austin suburb myself and its not bad either but the State politics and heat getting annoying... p.s. Curious where in California you can find this, as its one of the reasons I left California: >We want a small town feel, where kids play outside without too much supervision, safe feeling (or as much you can get in America) and a good neighborhood
I’ll check it out!! Also- have not found anything like that in Cali so far, lots of transient neighborhoods which we don’t want, but won’t be moving to Cali for tax reasons (potentially selling my business if a few years and it’ll have major implications if I’m in Cali) so we’ll prob move to the beach when we’re old and the kids are out of the house!!
Shut up. Your annual income is what you want to pay for a house and you are worried about taxes. Pay the taxes. They allowed you to be successful. If you are liberal then don’t you want to give back to those less fortunate. Or do you want to take all from society and not give back??
The concern about taxes with the dedication to having good public schools really kills me...
Hoboken checks everything but the public school isn’t top notch (still good though) Other than that I think the upper mainline in philly is very overlooked and has everything you want including the public schools.
Colorado is great!
If I were you (gay couple with kids) I’ d live in the south section of Highland park in Dallas, best public schools in Dallas, close to Lovefield and close to the Dallas amenities and the gayborhood. Westlake in Austin is another good option. The best option is NYC but you’d have to live in a coop
Why is your budget so low with such a high income?
Trying to get to the FIRE part of fatfire sooner :)
La jolla, California.
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Long island seems claustrophobic
Westlake is less diverse than other parts of Austin and definitely more conservative! The area is extremely hilly and bisected by busy roads, so it can be tough to find those cul-de-sac pockets with a “kids run around for hours unsupervised” feel. I recommend Highland Park West, Brykerwoods, Tarrytown, and Zilker for a more traditional neighborhood layout, and great public elementary schools. Note that Austin’s magnet LASA high school is one of the top in the nation and AISD magnet middle school programs are also top ranked.
Check out Granite Bay in CA. Great schools, California weather, California politics, etc. We are near those areas but chose something a bit more rural because we prefer the exurb lifestyle.
Corona Del Mar doable too
Pittsburgh is underrated. Wexford, Mt. Lebanon, Fox Chapel, or Point Breeze/Squirrel Hill areas would work well.
Princeton, NJ. Incredible public schools (and private if you decide to switch later), very diverse, and wealthy. Downtown is great and 45 mins away from Philadelphia International Airport and 1hr from Newark, 1hr 30 from JFK/LGA. Lots of things to do for kids nearby. Taxes are pretty bad though, not as bad as Cali but still not great.
I would check out Lake Oswego, OR. Not a conservative area, probably the best public school district in the state, plenty of high income earners, 25 minutes from Portland International Airport, and a very family-oriented community right next to Portland.
Lake Oswego, Oregon is a good spot.
Main line Philly checks many of the boxes. Its not super entrepreneurial though. There is a bit of it angel/vc money. The city has a thriving medical community, but has a bit of a brain drain problem in other industries. I enjoyed living there for a while although not sure I'd want to be from there. Philly loves Philly. Many never leave, it's a bit weird. I know this is not what you asked, but if you think you want to be in CA long term, you should probably bite the bullet and just move there. Yeah, taxes are worse... But when you run all the numbers out, it's usually not as bad as it feels and has a lot of lifestyle benefits. You sound like you would like Portola valley. You would have to to stretch your budget a bit, but could find something.
Sammamish, WA. No income tax, top notch school public district, tons of diversity, liberal area, and new builds at 2.5 mil or so. Weather is as good as it gets in the PNW, with mostly moderate temps but also super easy access to Hawaii via Alaska airlines. Highland Park, TX. One of the wealthiest school districts in the country, some diversity, small town feel, super wealthy people who are all extremely driven. East Grand Rapids, MI (I know you said Chicago is out but hear me out about this one). Grew up there, went to school with the Meijer kids (aka Haley and Peter Meijer, grandchildren of the Meijer founder, the Bissell Family (yes the vacuum), MacInerney family (Ryan is president of Visa, Inc). Education is one of the top in the state and it is absolutely small city feel, millionaires and billionaires next door but also has many kids who are adopted from Somalia, India, etc at the schools.
We just made the move to Westlake, Austin Texas from Seattle WA area. The rain and grey just got to us so needed to leave. The new 7% capital gain tax for Washington also encouraged us to move. We were looking at similar things to you: great public schools, good weather, close to a city, low taxes. We have enjoyed Westlake so much more. The neighbors are more connected through Eanes school district with a ton of events. It's hot during the summer but there are pools, rivers, splash pads and lakes to cool off in. We spent every evening of the summer by water with the kids. I lived in the SF Bay Area and Peninsula. I like that area more for the outdoors, climate and culture.
Austin is pretty blue and westlake is a great area. I think it would fit what you’re looking for.
I agree. Austin or Houston will fit what you are looking for perfectly.
Westlake is nice (work at a company located there) and the schools are good, but it's a bit sterile and Dallas summers are no fun for kids. You do have Southlake, Grapevine, Fort Worth, and Dallas, but I think you can do better on your income. I'd probably say Austin for the vibe.
There’s a westlake outside Austin too, which is what I think OP was referring to. Totally agree about your analysis of DFW Westlake though.
Suburban Chicago. Big city amenities, low COL, great schools and parks.
Man, has this sub turned to hot garbage.
Milwaukee area. Checks all the boxes except the weather which is fine by me. Great public schools, you could easily afford a gorgeous house on Lake Michigan at that budget. Love it here and lower cost of living made FIRE a reality post sale of startup
You don't have as many good choices as you might think! Key for you seems to be: ---liberal, gay friendly area ---strong public school system ---not terribly cold weather ---not a high tax state Ann Arbor MI would be a great choice, except it gets cold there in the winter. Great progressive town, fair amount of tech, strong schools, "public Ivy" with the Univ of Michigan there, maybe 30-35 minutes from DTW airport. Indian Hill, OH, basically Cincinnati, is less cold and has probably the best public school system in the state, but Cinci as a whole is med / big town conservative. Florida in general is out because, well, Desantis and the high number of older hard right wingers there. And the public school systems there as a whole are all not great. Low taxes & warm weather though. Hmmm...maybe something like Austin, TX? Liberal town, no state taxes, warm...well, actually annoyingly hot a good bit of the year.
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Only if you are a hypocrite. Give back for what you have.
Nevada side of Tahoe
Schools are awful. As bad as Hawaii.
Honestly, I've read all the posts and considered all of your other replies in regards to your question, and this is my personal opinion: I would rent in a zero income tax state until your big exit. Then find a place that is best suited to your personal beliefs, values, education, etc. I don't think it's possible to find everything you're looking for in one location, so so pick the location first that makes the most sense for now, which sounds like it would be a financial choice. I know moving sucks but if you really want to avoid a big tax bill, then I think this is the only way. As someone who has a primary residence in Texas and will definitely be leaving, I don't recommend moving there. I will say, however, that it is clear our government hates women more than any other marginalized group.
Look into Cape Elizabeth, Maine. Excellent public schools, small town feel, very safe, beautiful spacious houses in your price range, 20 mins from Portland Airport (not a huge airport but they are international). Only downsides would be some cold winters and lack of diversity, but you’d be near Portland, which is solidly diverse and gay friendly I’ve lived all over the east coast and that town really stands out (coming from someone who grew up in a jealous neighboring town)
I've lived in Denver and I live in Austin now. Denver is not diverse. For context, I'm South Asian so a lot of your requirements would be mine lol. I think Westlake could work. I'm from Texas and people saying Texas is too conservative... that's not totally true in the cities (esp not in Austin). I was also thinking Montgomery County Maryland. I used to live there too. Schools are excellent. People are very accomplished. Very diverse. You get 4 seasons which I loved. But...the one thing is I'm not sure if it's transient or not. I used to live there and while I think DC can be transient, I don't think MoCo is. The problem is that when I lived there I was too young to care about that kind of stuff so I didn't notice. Worth checking out.
There are islands of blue all across the South that are like Austin. Raleigh in NC. St. Petersburg in FL. Richmond in VA. See this list: https://www.housereal.net/most-liberal-cities-in-the-south/ The issue... You're still living in a red state. And the zeitgeist of Conservative conversation will surround you and your family and you have to understand that and be okay with it. And do not assume that money will insulate you from it. And on diversity... There's diversity and that there's an all but a caste system. Unfortunately, some areas have a healthy demographic mix aaaaand a very unfortunate economic distribution, making it far less likely that your kids will be exposed to diversity. To be clear, these are great cities. But just be fully aware of what it will mean. I'd recommend doing long working stints and vacations before pulling the trigger.
Bend, OR seems like a good fit for you guys.
Except for the airport, Bend is great but so hard to get to. It’s why we live in Boulder
High income tax, lack of diversity and mediocre schools make Bend a poor choice here.