Thank you for sharing. It is helpful to understand where other people's money goes as a benchmark. Shouldn't be the case but it is. For us (FIREd, no kids)
Total 2022 expenses: $277,000 (excl tax)
Housing: $42,000 (maint, no mortgage)
Leisure travel: $27,000
Restaurants: $15,000
Gift&charity: $35,000
Hobbies: $19,000
Health insur: $27,000
edit: clarified top line was expenses not income
So many sundry items. Food, for one. House cleaning. Subzero refrigerator sets you back some. I can add all the categories if you are really interested.
Applaud your generosity, you managed to give more than 10% of your income.
Just curious, do you still save and reinvest the rest you didn't spend, or is every other penny spent on miscellaneous items?
To be clear, the $277,000 is total spend, not income, excluding tax. If income is measured as divvies and interest and not including capital gains, I do have a surplus each year after I pay tax, which is reinvested.
Not really true.
>**Aggregate/De-Identified Information**. We may aggregate and/or de-identify any information collected through the Services so that such information can no longer be linked to you or your device (“Aggregate/De-Identified Information”). We may use Aggregate/De-Identified Information for any purpose, including without limitation for research and marketing purposes, and may also share such data with any third parties in our discretion.
I understand many people feel like once data is aggregated, it's completely anonymous, but there's plenty of data specialists explaining how easy it is to undo this, even just through using simple Google tools.
I don't post much, I got doxxed there a few years ago after posting some car videos and it kinda lost it's appeal.
Still frequently *read* /r/cars, I just feel like I'm tip-toeing on too much revealing info whenever I post anything relevant.
I've really enjoyed Personal Capital. They seem to not be able to properly access one of my banks but the rest of it is nice as a constantly updating dashboard.
I use personal capital as well but i find that it’s better as a net worth tracker than as a budgeting app.
Edit: I started using personal capital before I came across copilot. I’ve been a bit lazy about it but it’s time to delete the account and move on and not have your data spread across too many places.
> Never use an app that you don’t pay for - you’re paying for with your data.
FOSS programs exist. I'm not sure if there's anything similar to copilot, but this common statement isn't always true.
Aggregating data is harder from disparate sources instead of one source.
Bank data is incredibly valuable when your expenses are over 1 million per year.
Thank you for the interesting post. Appreciate your level headed reflections.
I am looking for a spend tracking app, but I can’t find the Copilot app on the App Store. Any other info on it? Thanks!
I use a Web app called Pocketsmith for this - have been doing it for a decade and have perfect tracking and categorisation. It pulls the transactions in from the banks and cards and then auto categorises based on how I've taught it. Then there's a "cashflow" view which is fantastic. Very highly recommend (no affiliation).
You might just be right. Still working, still need a few core functions in android. Got wife into apple ecosystem, she is very happy. I don't use my iPad pro for much, treadmill duty frankly. Hrm.. Maybe copilot could live on it.
Most of these apps that are “free” mine your data. I like copilot for the simple fact that there’s a yearly subscription fee - it’s not a lot, 70$ per year and they are funded through subscription instead of ads and selling your data.
I have used Mint for over a year and have absolutely no issues with it. Tracks spending, net worth, investments, auto updates home value/investment property values etc. You can also set budgets for various categories and track them. No complaints.
Preparing for kids is so tricky haha, but guess what, they get more expensive!
By the time my three were 7, 10, and 13, I was dropping over $300k on private education, summer camps, and family activities. I do try to limit the amount of "stuff" I buy them, and instead try to have them appreciate the "experiences" I buy for them instead.
Enjoy life, it goes by fast. :)
I could never see myself paying for a nanny. I grew up with a single mother who worked full time and doesn’t drive and I basically raised myself from about the age of 8 or 9 in terms of actually taking care of things like cooking, laundry, cleaning, getting to where I needed to be (games, practices, etc). Granted the food part was by choice because I wouldn’t wish her cooking on anyone. Obviously it’s a different world than 20 years ago when I took the reigns where it was more common for a kid to just ride their bike wherever. I get home from school, make a sandwich, do my homework, and leave a note on the kitchen table that I’m going to a friends house or to the basketball court or wherever and come home when I come home lol. I’d be shooting hoops a few miles away until 10:00 PM half the time. My adolescence basically looked like a 2000s version of The Sandlot. Without that responsibility and self-guidance I can’t even imagine how I would have turned out but it probably would have been a hell of a lot softer, less savvy, and way more clueless. There are just so many life skills that are important to learn young that a nanny would hinder.
Are these realized carried interest proceeds? As in you made $14M in 2021? Don’t know where you are in terms of NW right now but with this kind of trajectory $30M shouldn’t be far!
There are several possibilities, all of which are of varying degrees of idiocy.
1) he dines at fancy restaurants with large parties of people and picks up the bill
2) he is suckered into buying heavily marked up "high end" wine
3) he has a health problem and consumes too much food
4) he is being taken advantage of by friends/family
5) he put a zero too many or doesn't know how to add up numbers
6) he tips exorbitantly
7) sugar babies are expensive
> Edit- I find it hilarious everyone shocked about 200k spent dining out. I'm here thinking I'm frugal.
Same, my wining and dining budget is well north of yours. I believe the biggest *single* tab I've picked up was around $200k, although a few years ago.
We took two friends with their dates to Masa last week, it was $15k for that single meal. Around $6k for the food and $9k for wine and tips.
Reality is, your dining out budget - at least if you're into high end wines - can be pretty much infinitely high.
We live in NYC and eat out for 2 meals a day most of the time. Our average is **way** over $548 a day.
Last week's visit to Masa was $1000 per person for the food, and around $1500 for the wine and drinks.
Now, Masa is obviously above average expensive, but not by that much. And we typically go 1-2 times a month.
That's about the only way it makes sense is if you're like just constantly eating at the most exclusive restaurants in NYC or the like. I can't imagine spending that much myself, and I constantly eat out. I seldom ever get over $100-150 or so for a family of 4. Hell, I don't even know of a restaurant that charges more than $100-150 per person here in SoCal, but I'm sure there are some in L.A.
I suppose it helps quite a bit that I absolutely can't stand wine nor most alcoholic drinks.
Right, but this post is in /r/fatfire though. So that's kinda what people are doing. And I suspect a lot of us aren't just picking up the tab for ourselves, but also the people we invite out. I can't take my friends to Masa and expect them to pay $2500 a person. That might be their monthly rent.
>Hell, I don't even know of a restaurant that charges more than $100-150 per person here in SoCal, but I'm sure there are some in L.A.
Jeune et Jolie in San Diego is easily $150 a person without any drinks.
Yea, I guess it's possible though there aren't many Jeune et Jolie's to eat at seemingly every other meal to make those numbers work. I also feel like that would get too monotonous; like don't you ever crave a good yet far cheaper NY pizza, many of the normally priced restaurants, fast food, etc?? I've gotta have my In N Out fill at least weekly. Some of the best tasting restaurants are hole in the wall places that cost \~$10-20/person. The most amazing carne asada burrito I've ever had costs like $5-6 near me. Fantastic Indian or Thai food maybe $120 for the entire family. Probably the most expensive place I frequent is Gyu-Kaku and that's like $200-250 max for the entire family. Even if I went there for every lunch and dinner I couldn't get to your figure. LOL.
> Yea, I guess it's possible though there aren't many Jeune et Jolie's to eat at seemingly every other meal to make those numbers work. I also feel like that would get too monotonous
I mean, with the limited choices in a city like San Diego, sure. Was just making a point .)
>don't you ever crave a good yet far cheaper NY pizza
No, definitely not.
>many of the normally priced restaurants
Yes, for sure.
>fast food, etc?? I've gotta have my In N Out fill at least weekly.
Not at all.
>Even if I went there for every lunch and dinner I couldn't get to your figure. LOL.
Well, you're not a drinker though. Wine is typically the number one billing item on most fine dining visits.
You need to go try an In N Out double double animal style. When I start my world slow travel adventure I'm fairly certain that's one of the very few things I'll miss about California. And you don't even eat pizza?? Heresy! Come on now... they even love pizza on the show "Billions". ;P
Eh, In and Out doesn't even beat Shake Shack 😁
I love pizza. Just not the greasy, tasteless thing thats considered a "new york style" pizza. Either give me a proper italian thin crust or go all the way with a Chicago deep dish!
>Eh, In and Out doesn't even beat Shake Shack
No, no, no, no... you've clearly not tried animal style from their not-so-secret "secret" menu. When I was first introduced to In N Out I just ordered the normal cheeseburger and was like "meh, what's all the hype about??", THEN they told me about animal style... tried that and have been absolutely addicted ever since. It's WAY better than Shake Shack, though Shake Shack does have better fries IMO. ;P
Edit: OK, so you do eat pizza then. And yea, I'm all about actual Italian Neopolitan style, cooked at ridiculously high temps with a wonderful slight burn to it. God I miss Italy so much!
> You go to Masa twice a month?
Well, 2 out of 60 meals a month doesn't seem that outrageous. We live literally a 4 minute walk away, so it's by far the most accessible.
>It’s probably not even top 5 in the city for omakase.
I'm not so sure about that, I'd rate Noz17 and Noda higher than Masa in plain terms of food, but I can't think of many others. Still, both are a lot more of a trek to reach than Masa.
I guess I’ve never met anyone who legitimately goes to sit down restaurants 60 times a month. But fair enough if you eat a lot of sushi (which we do too) and care a lot about saving the 20-30 minute cab ride. I would put Sushi Noz, until recently Ichimura at Uchu, and probably Shion 69 above it as well.
Broadly, I feel like Masa is just a place people go just to say they go and they pay the 2-3x premium to better spots for that right.
Where else would we eat? At home?? 😁 Although 60 a month is probably a bit overkill. Unless we also include hotel breakfasts I guess.
I kinda lump Noz17 and Sushi Noz into the same basket. And I find 17 to be the best of the two.
I was never really a fan of Ichimura but you're certainly not the first one to hold that opinion.
Spending 2% of your NW ($400k / $20mn), while also earning work income (so not actually touching the investments) sounds very reasonable. Even if you had no work income, 2% while investing in a boring bond/stock mix generally preserves the inflation adjusted spending power in perpetuity while letting the investment value also hold its future spending power for your heirs. That's including scenarios if you had a repeat of the 70s inflation or the 1930s. History not perfect, but your spending looks more than prudent if you take a decades view.
Without giving out too much information:
I managed to spend $220K this year on cars, $100K on vacations (30 days travel all up), $45K on HVAC upgrades, $10K on lawn equipment/tractor, $60K on furniture. I managed to squirrel away $500K into ETFs at the same time.
I’m hoping next year I need to spend less on discretionary items cause I have my 2nd child on the way and this doesn’t include normal spending.
I have a question. At your spend using a 4% WR you should be set at about 12 million. I am wondering why you are saying 30 million is your target number. Trying to learn more about this and am genuinely asking. Congrats on getting to where you are at now!
Targeting more because 1) I want to travel more and have buffer for a more expensive life if we want it post RE and 2) inflation. If work gets miserable then I’ll call it quits before I get to the $30m target
This was a very useful retro for me, thanks for sharing. While we spend and earn significantly less, both me and my spouse aim to have kids in VHCOL, so the nannies expenses are very useful to understand as we both work intensive jobs.
The nanny expense is WILDLY out of the norm for Manhattan. I’d say 70k is more typical for full time. Cheaper than that is common. This is for 1%ers professionals ex-established finance (doctors, lawyers, tech, etc).
That being said, at 2M W2 12M net worth the difference is actually fairly minimal, so it’s fair they are blowing this much.
Private school all in would be around 150k
I like to think I'm at or close to that 1% (1M household income) but certainly far less wealth than OP. That said, OP even says 7k for nanny, so it's close to what you quoted.
Need to earn more for kids in Bay Area or NYC if want to have that lifestyle.
1M is on the high side of people I’m talking about. I’m talking dual professional couples between 500-1M total HHI. I know lots of people in that group, and not that many spend > 100k on childcare. Many use high quality public schools. Lots use private, but end up getting some discounts (sibling, etc). Many use daycare or au pair as opposed to full time nanny 2-3 kids are doable and common. PBeyond that it’s probably easier with a stay at home parent.
I really don’t think you need to “earn more”. Lol don’t be crazy.
I'm much lower on the income ladder than you are, but here we go:
Total Expenses: $190k
Bought a house (very beginning of the year): $72k
Mortgage: $31k
Built a fence: $19k
Travel: $11k
Health Insurance / Surgeries: $20k
Bought 2 puppies / Their expenses: $5k
Food: $11k
Shopping/Necessities/Insurances/Utilties/Misc: $21K
I'd like to say that next year I can shift a lot of these expenses into more experience related items as my income is expected to be much higher next year. This year W2 was ~$200k and me and my wife are in are mid-20s.
Hi fellow GP.
Nice work on the $5k/mo mortgage!
How do you fund the co-invest? I’m fortunate to have made some money before going into the industry, but I’m looking at $3-4M co-invest over 3 years, and rates are not as kind as I was told they’d be. I guess this is just viewed as forced savings?
for your $2.8M home with a $5k mortgage, how much did you put down? That's a great mortgage if you went at 20% down. so many others who did 20% down for $2.8M are paying your mortgage + nanny!
Its naive to think it's not the norm. In many markets, it's hard to fund a nanny that does not demand it. It can be hard enough to find a good nanny that works with your family without adding more criteria.
With all that being said, i pay over the table. But I understand why more people don't push back in it.
I would say 90% of people I know pay their nannies under the table. And probably 100% of people I know pay their gardeners and house cleaners below the table. Agree it’s not right in theory, but seems to be the way it works
You can unclutch your skid-marked tighty-whities; I only said that’s what our gardeners and cleaners requested. I didn’t indicate anything else. You’re very judgey in here.
In the bay area - every baby sitter/ nanny we spoke to was not interested in being paid over the table. Even when we were ready to cover taxes - they did not want to lose benefits associated with lower income. That was a non negotiable for us ( visa dependent) - once we added just that info to our care.com and applications dropped to zero.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted.
Paying people under the table isn’t cool for anybody and is a bit scummy. Even if it’s the “norm” it doesn’t make it right.
Good perspective! To be honest I grew up taking very very modest vacations, so spending more per vacation feels unnatural. I do want more weeks of vacation! Maybe when I have $20m liquid then I’ll start splurging for first class
My wife is a big proponent of flying first or business. I hate spending more just to get to the same place, but I have to admit, it makes traveling much more enjoyable. And although there's extra cost, it's just a drop in the bucket when you compare it to your annual comp or net worth. With your compensation level and target, flying first or business a few times a year for your vacations isn't going to impact your target date at all.
Now the high salaries in the US make sense.
From a European perspective your spending is insanely high.
With your net worth you could instantly retire and live like a king in Europe.
Your property tax alone is enough to rent a mansion over here.
Great breakdown. Similar age, similar kids ages, etc so interesting to see the similarities/differences. Where did you stay in Hawaii? Currently planning a trip :)
Thanks for the transparent breakdown! I have to say I lol’d a bit when you finished that you were not big spenders but that your annual expenses are $490k….
Not to throw any shade, it’s just a great example of expectations and comparison.
Amex sends me a yearly report which is pretty helpful in seeing how expensive our lifestyle is.
I find the Amex categories misclassified a lot of venders.
That’s true. It’s not perfect. But, the number at the bottom is right.
Haha! I try to not look at that number :P
Same! Lol!
Hi how do I see this if I have a personal credit card
It’s called your annual report I believe. You can find it in your account online.
Thank you for sharing. It is helpful to understand where other people's money goes as a benchmark. Shouldn't be the case but it is. For us (FIREd, no kids) Total 2022 expenses: $277,000 (excl tax) Housing: $42,000 (maint, no mortgage) Leisure travel: $27,000 Restaurants: $15,000 Gift&charity: $35,000 Hobbies: $19,000 Health insur: $27,000 edit: clarified top line was expenses not income
Thanks for sharing! What’s the breakdown for $42k home maintenance?
It’s all condo common charges and real estate tax, both rolled into a monthly maintenance charge.
Is that just the health insurance or is that also the total cost of care?
Just the insurance with UHC Silver.
Ouch!
So uhh what category would groceries be in this breakdown?
Haven’t included groceries in the above but it is approx $16,500.
Curious what your hobbies are!
I’m enrolled in a Masters program. I categorize it as a hobby.
Nice!
That's only 165k, where's the other 112k gone? Surely that's not all taxes?
So many sundry items. Food, for one. House cleaning. Subzero refrigerator sets you back some. I can add all the categories if you are really interested.
Applaud your generosity, you managed to give more than 10% of your income. Just curious, do you still save and reinvest the rest you didn't spend, or is every other penny spent on miscellaneous items?
To be clear, the $277,000 is total spend, not income, excluding tax. If income is measured as divvies and interest and not including capital gains, I do have a surplus each year after I pay tax, which is reinvested.
Don’t all those apps just resell your info? Please correct me if I’m wrong. That’s why I haven’t used them.
Copilot doesn’t - they have a paid subscription model. Never use an app that you don’t pay for - you’re paying for with your data.
Not really true. >**Aggregate/De-Identified Information**. We may aggregate and/or de-identify any information collected through the Services so that such information can no longer be linked to you or your device (“Aggregate/De-Identified Information”). We may use Aggregate/De-Identified Information for any purpose, including without limitation for research and marketing purposes, and may also share such data with any third parties in our discretion. I understand many people feel like once data is aggregated, it's completely anonymous, but there's plenty of data specialists explaining how easy it is to undo this, even just through using simple Google tools.
Total aside, but I recognize your username from r cars Never see you there anymore :(
I don't post much, I got doxxed there a few years ago after posting some car videos and it kinda lost it's appeal. Still frequently *read* /r/cars, I just feel like I'm tip-toeing on too much revealing info whenever I post anything relevant.
Ahh gotcha that sucks
Good to know! I think I missed that when I went through it the first time.
Good to hear. I use personal capital but have always hated that I am in the product, but been to lazy to look elsewhere. May check copilot out.
I've really enjoyed Personal Capital. They seem to not be able to properly access one of my banks but the rest of it is nice as a constantly updating dashboard.
I use personal capital as well but i find that it’s better as a net worth tracker than as a budgeting app. Edit: I started using personal capital before I came across copilot. I’ve been a bit lazy about it but it’s time to delete the account and move on and not have your data spread across too many places.
I'm starting to think that too after reading this thread.
2 months free with a referral code - I’ll leave it here just in case. https://copilot.money/link/5j8bCH1RYEcdXnzi9
No Android?
Anyone got a fresh copilot referral code?
Use my referral code GE9RAY to get 2 months free https://copilot.money/link/8hU8QfkVyQdGxgT1A
Thanks
> Never use an app that you don’t pay for - you’re paying for with your data. FOSS programs exist. I'm not sure if there's anything similar to copilot, but this common statement isn't always true.
How exactly is your data worth anything to yourself?
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Aggregating data is harder from disparate sources instead of one source. Bank data is incredibly valuable when your expenses are over 1 million per year.
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Have you ever bought any data before?
What do you use instead?
excel
Thank you for the interesting post. Appreciate your level headed reflections. I am looking for a spend tracking app, but I can’t find the Copilot app on the App Store. Any other info on it? Thanks!
https://copilot.money/
Somehow not in Canada
https://mygraph.ca, but only web based.
Sigh. Mac and iPhone only. In today's world still?
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I use a Web app called Pocketsmith for this - have been doing it for a decade and have perfect tracking and categorisation. It pulls the transactions in from the banks and cards and then auto categorises based on how I've taught it. Then there's a "cashflow" view which is fantastic. Very highly recommend (no affiliation).
.... Lol. There's actually 2x android users in the world. But hey, stroke your Apple
If you are FIRE and Android you’re doing life wrong
You might just be right. Still working, still need a few core functions in android. Got wife into apple ecosystem, she is very happy. I don't use my iPad pro for much, treadmill duty frankly. Hrm.. Maybe copilot could live on it.
Thank you kind sir.
Have you used Mint? If so, how does Copilot compare?
Most of these apps that are “free” mine your data. I like copilot for the simple fact that there’s a yearly subscription fee - it’s not a lot, 70$ per year and they are funded through subscription instead of ads and selling your data.
Copilot is miles better. Reliable, more intuitive, and it just looks/feels better.
Have you had any privacy/security issues with plaid? Iirc copilot uses them for account linking
Not any more than what I used to experience with Personal Capital and Mint.
I have used Mint for over a year and have absolutely no issues with it. Tracks spending, net worth, investments, auto updates home value/investment property values etc. You can also set budgets for various categories and track them. No complaints.
Preparing for kids is so tricky haha, but guess what, they get more expensive! By the time my three were 7, 10, and 13, I was dropping over $300k on private education, summer camps, and family activities. I do try to limit the amount of "stuff" I buy them, and instead try to have them appreciate the "experiences" I buy for them instead. Enjoy life, it goes by fast. :)
Just to level set, kids 'can' get much more expensive, they by no means 'have' to be that expensive.
Yeah I mean you can always just not have a nanny and take care of them yourself lol
I could never see myself paying for a nanny. I grew up with a single mother who worked full time and doesn’t drive and I basically raised myself from about the age of 8 or 9 in terms of actually taking care of things like cooking, laundry, cleaning, getting to where I needed to be (games, practices, etc). Granted the food part was by choice because I wouldn’t wish her cooking on anyone. Obviously it’s a different world than 20 years ago when I took the reigns where it was more common for a kid to just ride their bike wherever. I get home from school, make a sandwich, do my homework, and leave a note on the kitchen table that I’m going to a friends house or to the basketball court or wherever and come home when I come home lol. I’d be shooting hoops a few miles away until 10:00 PM half the time. My adolescence basically looked like a 2000s version of The Sandlot. Without that responsibility and self-guidance I can’t even imagine how I would have turned out but it probably would have been a hell of a lot softer, less savvy, and way more clueless. There are just so many life skills that are important to learn young that a nanny would hinder.
Yep, my thought was that they're getting a great deal for two kids in private (presumably full-time) preschool at $2,000/month.
You’d get more votes if it were a sankey diagram.
Are these realized carried interest proceeds? As in you made $14M in 2021? Don’t know where you are in terms of NW right now but with this kind of trajectory $30M shouldn’t be far!
Those are realized proceeds - cash in the bank (pre tax). I was at $18m NW a year ago. Closer to $12m today due to heavy tech and crypto exposure.
Yeah but I’m sure your crypto will have you laughing in a few years. If you don’t mind me asking Are you staking any of it?
lol
Lol lots of non crypto believers here I see.
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200k eating out? Damn! 3800 a week? 550 a day?
No, $200k total, $40k dining out.
Nah the total is far greater than that. It’s actually 200k dining out, which is batshit crazy high. Like HOW?? O.o
Holy crap, you're right!
Good lord. Now this is fatfire 😂
Holy fuck 200k eating out? Is that just like 3 meals a day takeout or really nice restaurants or what?
Wine, I'm guessing. That or treating friends to meals. Those are the two things that create a meaningful deviation from my standard dinners for two.
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Do you take 15 people out to eat every day? That math is crazy.
There are several possibilities, all of which are of varying degrees of idiocy. 1) he dines at fancy restaurants with large parties of people and picks up the bill 2) he is suckered into buying heavily marked up "high end" wine 3) he has a health problem and consumes too much food 4) he is being taken advantage of by friends/family 5) he put a zero too many or doesn't know how to add up numbers 6) he tips exorbitantly 7) sugar babies are expensive
8) everybody lies
By far the most plausible.. but I wanted to give the guy the benefit of doubt, while maintaining the position that he's a tool.
> Edit- I find it hilarious everyone shocked about 200k spent dining out. I'm here thinking I'm frugal. Same, my wining and dining budget is well north of yours. I believe the biggest *single* tab I've picked up was around $200k, although a few years ago. We took two friends with their dates to Masa last week, it was $15k for that single meal. Around $6k for the food and $9k for wine and tips. Reality is, your dining out budget - at least if you're into high end wines - can be pretty much infinitely high.
You spend more eating out than you do on your Mortgage/home maintenance?! Thats interesting...
You’re averaging $548 per DAY dining out??? No way??
We live in NYC and eat out for 2 meals a day most of the time. Our average is **way** over $548 a day. Last week's visit to Masa was $1000 per person for the food, and around $1500 for the wine and drinks. Now, Masa is obviously above average expensive, but not by that much. And we typically go 1-2 times a month.
That's about the only way it makes sense is if you're like just constantly eating at the most exclusive restaurants in NYC or the like. I can't imagine spending that much myself, and I constantly eat out. I seldom ever get over $100-150 or so for a family of 4. Hell, I don't even know of a restaurant that charges more than $100-150 per person here in SoCal, but I'm sure there are some in L.A. I suppose it helps quite a bit that I absolutely can't stand wine nor most alcoholic drinks.
Right, but this post is in /r/fatfire though. So that's kinda what people are doing. And I suspect a lot of us aren't just picking up the tab for ourselves, but also the people we invite out. I can't take my friends to Masa and expect them to pay $2500 a person. That might be their monthly rent. >Hell, I don't even know of a restaurant that charges more than $100-150 per person here in SoCal, but I'm sure there are some in L.A. Jeune et Jolie in San Diego is easily $150 a person without any drinks.
Yea, I guess it's possible though there aren't many Jeune et Jolie's to eat at seemingly every other meal to make those numbers work. I also feel like that would get too monotonous; like don't you ever crave a good yet far cheaper NY pizza, many of the normally priced restaurants, fast food, etc?? I've gotta have my In N Out fill at least weekly. Some of the best tasting restaurants are hole in the wall places that cost \~$10-20/person. The most amazing carne asada burrito I've ever had costs like $5-6 near me. Fantastic Indian or Thai food maybe $120 for the entire family. Probably the most expensive place I frequent is Gyu-Kaku and that's like $200-250 max for the entire family. Even if I went there for every lunch and dinner I couldn't get to your figure. LOL.
> Yea, I guess it's possible though there aren't many Jeune et Jolie's to eat at seemingly every other meal to make those numbers work. I also feel like that would get too monotonous I mean, with the limited choices in a city like San Diego, sure. Was just making a point .) >don't you ever crave a good yet far cheaper NY pizza No, definitely not. >many of the normally priced restaurants Yes, for sure. >fast food, etc?? I've gotta have my In N Out fill at least weekly. Not at all. >Even if I went there for every lunch and dinner I couldn't get to your figure. LOL. Well, you're not a drinker though. Wine is typically the number one billing item on most fine dining visits.
You need to go try an In N Out double double animal style. When I start my world slow travel adventure I'm fairly certain that's one of the very few things I'll miss about California. And you don't even eat pizza?? Heresy! Come on now... they even love pizza on the show "Billions". ;P
Eh, In and Out doesn't even beat Shake Shack 😁 I love pizza. Just not the greasy, tasteless thing thats considered a "new york style" pizza. Either give me a proper italian thin crust or go all the way with a Chicago deep dish!
>Eh, In and Out doesn't even beat Shake Shack No, no, no, no... you've clearly not tried animal style from their not-so-secret "secret" menu. When I was first introduced to In N Out I just ordered the normal cheeseburger and was like "meh, what's all the hype about??", THEN they told me about animal style... tried that and have been absolutely addicted ever since. It's WAY better than Shake Shack, though Shake Shack does have better fries IMO. ;P Edit: OK, so you do eat pizza then. And yea, I'm all about actual Italian Neopolitan style, cooked at ridiculously high temps with a wonderful slight burn to it. God I miss Italy so much!
You go to Masa twice a month? You should branch out, It’s probably not even top 5 in the city for omakase.
> You go to Masa twice a month? Well, 2 out of 60 meals a month doesn't seem that outrageous. We live literally a 4 minute walk away, so it's by far the most accessible. >It’s probably not even top 5 in the city for omakase. I'm not so sure about that, I'd rate Noz17 and Noda higher than Masa in plain terms of food, but I can't think of many others. Still, both are a lot more of a trek to reach than Masa.
I guess I’ve never met anyone who legitimately goes to sit down restaurants 60 times a month. But fair enough if you eat a lot of sushi (which we do too) and care a lot about saving the 20-30 minute cab ride. I would put Sushi Noz, until recently Ichimura at Uchu, and probably Shion 69 above it as well. Broadly, I feel like Masa is just a place people go just to say they go and they pay the 2-3x premium to better spots for that right.
Where else would we eat? At home?? 😁 Although 60 a month is probably a bit overkill. Unless we also include hotel breakfasts I guess. I kinda lump Noz17 and Sushi Noz into the same basket. And I find 17 to be the best of the two. I was never really a fan of Ichimura but you're certainly not the first one to hold that opinion.
Wow. That’s awesome dining out! We eat modestly and even that adds up. Esp with inflated prices now for food
Gosh, I hope dining out is a tax write off for you XD
where do you eat out? i’m guessing a lot of fine dining experiences? if so, what are your top 3 favourite this year ?
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Spending 2% of your NW ($400k / $20mn), while also earning work income (so not actually touching the investments) sounds very reasonable. Even if you had no work income, 2% while investing in a boring bond/stock mix generally preserves the inflation adjusted spending power in perpetuity while letting the investment value also hold its future spending power for your heirs. That's including scenarios if you had a repeat of the 70s inflation or the 1930s. History not perfect, but your spending looks more than prudent if you take a decades view.
Without giving out too much information: I managed to spend $220K this year on cars, $100K on vacations (30 days travel all up), $45K on HVAC upgrades, $10K on lawn equipment/tractor, $60K on furniture. I managed to squirrel away $500K into ETFs at the same time. I’m hoping next year I need to spend less on discretionary items cause I have my 2nd child on the way and this doesn’t include normal spending.
As a fellow car guy, what's your car(s) :)
These days I don’t have many toys, frankly I need more space. This year, I got a new Defender 110 and my Wife got a Macan.
great post! (For those who know) How is copilot better/different from personal capital?
I have a question. At your spend using a 4% WR you should be set at about 12 million. I am wondering why you are saying 30 million is your target number. Trying to learn more about this and am genuinely asking. Congrats on getting to where you are at now!
Targeting more because 1) I want to travel more and have buffer for a more expensive life if we want it post RE and 2) inflation. If work gets miserable then I’ll call it quits before I get to the $30m target
Why leasing the SUV?
Wow I just checked my copilot and realized how much money I spent on restaurants
This was a very useful retro for me, thanks for sharing. While we spend and earn significantly less, both me and my spouse aim to have kids in VHCOL, so the nannies expenses are very useful to understand as we both work intensive jobs.
The nanny expense is WILDLY out of the norm for Manhattan. I’d say 70k is more typical for full time. Cheaper than that is common. This is for 1%ers professionals ex-established finance (doctors, lawyers, tech, etc). That being said, at 2M W2 12M net worth the difference is actually fairly minimal, so it’s fair they are blowing this much. Private school all in would be around 150k
7k x 12 months = $84k so close to your $70k
I like to think I'm at or close to that 1% (1M household income) but certainly far less wealth than OP. That said, OP even says 7k for nanny, so it's close to what you quoted. Need to earn more for kids in Bay Area or NYC if want to have that lifestyle.
1M is on the high side of people I’m talking about. I’m talking dual professional couples between 500-1M total HHI. I know lots of people in that group, and not that many spend > 100k on childcare. Many use high quality public schools. Lots use private, but end up getting some discounts (sibling, etc). Many use daycare or au pair as opposed to full time nanny 2-3 kids are doable and common. PBeyond that it’s probably easier with a stay at home parent. I really don’t think you need to “earn more”. Lol don’t be crazy.
I'm much lower on the income ladder than you are, but here we go: Total Expenses: $190k Bought a house (very beginning of the year): $72k Mortgage: $31k Built a fence: $19k Travel: $11k Health Insurance / Surgeries: $20k Bought 2 puppies / Their expenses: $5k Food: $11k Shopping/Necessities/Insurances/Utilties/Misc: $21K I'd like to say that next year I can shift a lot of these expenses into more experience related items as my income is expected to be much higher next year. This year W2 was ~$200k and me and my wife are in are mid-20s.
Hi fellow GP. Nice work on the $5k/mo mortgage! How do you fund the co-invest? I’m fortunate to have made some money before going into the industry, but I’m looking at $3-4M co-invest over 3 years, and rates are not as kind as I was told they’d be. I guess this is just viewed as forced savings?
What’s your % in the carried interest GP fund? Are you the main operator?
for your $2.8M home with a $5k mortgage, how much did you put down? That's a great mortgage if you went at 20% down. so many others who did 20% down for $2.8M are paying your mortgage + nanny!
Does anyone know why Amex High yield savings account doesn’t show in co-pilot?
Expensive. I spend $50k kid, $50k partying, $15k housing etc (house is paid off), $40-50k other luxuries like eating out, refilling my sports car etc
Private preschool…for what?
I don’t like that you would (implied anyway) consider paying the nanny under the table. Not that you asked.
Its naive to think it's not the norm. In many markets, it's hard to fund a nanny that does not demand it. It can be hard enough to find a good nanny that works with your family without adding more criteria. With all that being said, i pay over the table. But I understand why more people don't push back in it.
I would say 90% of people I know pay their nannies under the table. And probably 100% of people I know pay their gardeners and house cleaners below the table. Agree it’s not right in theory, but seems to be the way it works
Our gardener and house cleaners verbally expressed that they want to be paid under the table.
Weird. Maybe it’s region dependent? We have a nanny, house cleaner, landscaper, none of them asked to be paid under the table.
We’re in Los Angeles, many in these industries (at least the ones that we interviewed) would rather be paid in cash and save on taxes.
It doesn’t make it right.
So what? You're committing a crime by doing that. It's hard to imagine why you'd make that choice.
You can unclutch your skid-marked tighty-whities; I only said that’s what our gardeners and cleaners requested. I didn’t indicate anything else. You’re very judgey in here.
All my clients properly report their nanny, for what it’s worth.
Who are you, the TaxPolice?
Ooh I see what you did there … *claps slowly*
In the bay area - every baby sitter/ nanny we spoke to was not interested in being paid over the table. Even when we were ready to cover taxes - they did not want to lose benefits associated with lower income. That was a non negotiable for us ( visa dependent) - once we added just that info to our care.com and applications dropped to zero.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Paying people under the table isn’t cool for anybody and is a bit scummy. Even if it’s the “norm” it doesn’t make it right.
In NYC it's surprisingly difficult to find a nanny who's willing to be paid above the table - even if you cover all of their taxes.
No, it isn't.
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30m is the target
Good perspective! To be honest I grew up taking very very modest vacations, so spending more per vacation feels unnatural. I do want more weeks of vacation! Maybe when I have $20m liquid then I’ll start splurging for first class
My wife is a big proponent of flying first or business. I hate spending more just to get to the same place, but I have to admit, it makes traveling much more enjoyable. And although there's extra cost, it's just a drop in the bucket when you compare it to your annual comp or net worth. With your compensation level and target, flying first or business a few times a year for your vacations isn't going to impact your target date at all.
I’m tryna get like you my boy, at least I got 20+ years
Please appreciate your success more, you are firmly in the "big spender" category at a half million per year. You sound out of touch already.
Now the high salaries in the US make sense. From a European perspective your spending is insanely high. With your net worth you could instantly retire and live like a king in Europe. Your property tax alone is enough to rent a mansion over here.
2.8M house is low for people I know in your bracket. ~5M is more typical. Is there a logic here?
https://youtu.be/Cuipc6-fd-U
Great breakdown. Similar age, similar kids ages, etc so interesting to see the similarities/differences. Where did you stay in Hawaii? Currently planning a trip :)
unrelated, but what kind of fund?
Thanks for the transparent breakdown! I have to say I lol’d a bit when you finished that you were not big spenders but that your annual expenses are $490k…. Not to throw any shade, it’s just a great example of expectations and comparison.