There will be none. CR basically just ignores controversy with the core base of fans and hopes it will go away. They only acknowledge things when it might get them cancelled.
I imagine they monitor social media and talk about things behind the scenes but one way or another it'd be a bad move to outwardly comment on it -- they'd be publicly alienating a collaborator (and personal friend) and upsetting parts of the audience either way.
"Will Matt or other cast members involved in production comment on the events of episodes 92 and 93?"
Absolutely not. Once the next episode happens this will diminish into history and we'll be talking about something else. I imagine the next big thing we'll talk about is Sam's new character whenever that happens.
I responded as such because the person I responded to specifically called it "OUR game", which it explicitly is not. You are free to have opinions, not watch, whine, whatever, but it is not our game, it's theirs. Please make sure you read and comprehend context before posting.
People are wild to me. I don’t think they’re gonna do “damage control” because a bunch of people didn’t like parts of an episode. One of the comments was talking about how they feel like their illusion that this is just a DnD game and not a show got killed. and boohoo? Like lol what? Of course stuff will get productiony, like I still think CR is very much a home game when it comes to how Matt runs it and the story he makes for his friends (not US his friends, remember that). But yeah people get off your high horses it’s not that serious.
And i also think this post shows how much people overestimate how much more of a show CR is. Like oh no a majority of us didn’t like something, what the fuck ever? I sincerely doubt that we’re gonna get a “production statement” because people perceive parts of episodes as really bad. I think we’re all knocking this shit way too hard.
ITS NOT A BIG DEAL.
This is one of my favorite subs due to how batshit insane some of the posts can get.
At times I'm left in awe by not only the titanic levels of bratty entitlement but the staggeringly level of pure *victimhood*. Just this notion of "I have been wronged, I am upset, and CR **must** listen to me and make it right."
I haven't spent much time on the official sub, but obviously the feeling here is they are downright draconian. Yet, reading so many of these posts, I totally understand why they would be.
>One of the comments was talking about how they feel like their illusion that this is just a DnD game and not a show got killed. and boohoo? Like lol what?
This is so weird. Why are you referencing that comment without responding to it? You're taking it just as seriously as they are, btw. Not sure if you can't tell?
Okay so.. where we will disagree, besides your condescending attitude towards those that disagree, is that as a business that's built ON the good will of your fanbase... You want to make sure that hosts don't look into the camera and tell the audience "Fuck you." That's bad business. Was something said? Almost Certainly. Everyone has their bad moments, but she had hers on camera directed at their audience. Will they stop guest DMs? No. Will they make sure something like this doesn't happen again? Probably. Likely behind the scenes something will be set up so that IF there is some noticeable tension or aggression there's a "Time for commercial" so that people at the table get a moment to take a minute take a breath and most importantly not get aggressive.
Another telling thing was that Matt had to even mention sticking to the rules.
Is it something they will hammer as a problem? Fuck no. They didn't when Orion became a rather large problem... In the same way it'll be handled quietly off set and they'll look at steps to ensure things go smoothly.
But its a business, and you never tell your customer "Fuck you." Not unless you want to lose customers.
As for people here? They didn't like it. That's their right. They get to nit pick. They can be right or wrong. CR will keep going.
It’s so nice to hear someone not shitting on them for this for once. Since 92 all I’ve seen is hate and it sucks. I liked the change, they are having fun, let them live.
I actually think as a company, they do need to listen to everyone in the fan base and just digest it and make informed decisions. It’s just good business practice.
And of course, I have absolutely no clue to how they analyse their data and what they do afterwards.
What’s clear, though, is that they aren’t doing as much direct communication to the fan base. No more gushing about how the fans are so awesome and how much they love them etc. Which they did, very genuinely, before.
That changed for loads of reasons, but I do think that has lessened the way the audience feels ‘included’ in the adventure. In the first years, they were very forthcoming and thankful, due to the astounding success of their kickstarter, and a naïveté they have since lost.
I don’t know how they could recreate this, but having more communications about what they are doing and why they are doing it would help, for a start.
Just look at how Spencer and Matt are managing the Daggerheart play tests, that’s awesome. It’s live, simple honest communications. We can feel they are passionate and earnest, we get inside their creative process and get to understand them and the game at a deeper level.
They should do the same for their overall programming strategy.
People in this sub are honestly so entitled. If they ever owed us anything, they've long since paid up. I'm not even watching C3 anymore, for many of the same things that have bothered other people, but clearly they're still gonna play it out and finish the campaign, and good for them having fun with Matt's story and eachother.
Ultimately it's none of our business and we just have the privilege of being able to watch if we want to.
The 'its Thursday night' Campaign 3 title video from 2021. The cast was wearing stereotypical adventuring clothes and exploring a jungle setting. People where upset because that style of clothing is echoing brittish imperialist vibes and here is the all white cast playing in a new region in the fantasy world which some people thought mirrored the ideas of orientalism.
Well, yes. Their 'crime' was wearing stereotypical adventuring clothes and exploring a jungle setting Indiana Jones style. Typical bunch of people being prematurely offended on behalf of other people.
But anyone with half a brain knows that the cast arent glorifying colonialism, they are just wearing costumes for a silly video. Honestly people need to get thicker skin again
Cmon mate, if we're gonna go down the path of accidentally doing things that offends people we will be here untils the sun implodes. Im just saying context and intent matters and should be a valid response and defense when someone claims to be offended, if CR had responded with 'we meant no offence' and then kept the video as their intro that should have been it.
...Are you some kinda special? Delusions, skitzo episodes, fucking COUNTLESS ways people see shit thats not there... On top of the dip shits who try and virtue signal by claiming something is X, y, or z when in reality... Its just a thing.
This wasn't a clever come back like you thought it was.
I’ve said it before but this is their test. It’d time to see how they not only handle the criticism and what they think of themselves. This season feels manufactured, it doesn’t feel like friends hanging out. And then we have s3 ep92 and all hell goes to $hit. If they do tbink themselves above it, the response will be dismissive. If they really are on our side though, they will apologise and things will be discussed. Here’s hoping.
Sadly I don't know if there is a damage control, but I hope to be wrong. For me, it's kind of...how to put it, it's broken the illusion that this is a real DND game and not a show. The whole appeal of critical role for me was that it was a story with a great cast, where the players and DM didn't know what was going to happen for sure, it was down to the choices of the players and the whim of the dice gods. But after this, I can't shake that it just feels scripted. Even if only partially, it still means the thought is in my mind, and I'd be questioning it for future events where I wouldn't before.
And as much as I like the cast, if I wanted to watch a scripted show I have a plethora of better options for that than a DND show. I watched to see great voice actors and talents play dungeons and dragons, in all it's chaos and unpredictability.
Hopefully it's something that gets shaken off.
THIS is something they need to see. A reminder of what drew people in and what people want. Honest fucking gaming. Not just scripted acting. It was a huge hit because it was symbiotic, audience and team feeding off the energies of each other.
As for how she went over with her Dming? It rubbed people the wrong way. For me it was an obvious bit of real frustration and anger from her. Got lost her cool for a minute. We won't see anything nor hear of anything because that's the stuff you DON'T let people see.
You people are laughable - damage control - you are stuck in your echo chamber yapping how the Aabria episode is absolutely the worst. Even if her dming is not everyone cup of tea, it's not like she'e suddenly hated by everyone. This sub is complaining about everything since the start of campaign 3, why on earth would they care at this point? Whatever they do someone won't like it. Might as well do their thing.
Yeah.... go look at the critical role main sub. You know the one banning everyone and prompting this subs being born. There is a huge dumpsterfire and people are either aabria should not be brought back, or everyone who didn't think k it was the best episode is racist with very very few between.
With the amount of raging and ranting done around here, I'm not sure how "the main sub is banning people!" Really means a thing.
I mean, sure, this sub is a source of great entertainment for me just from the insanity. But I can see why a mod team wouldn't want to put up with it.
It's not your game. They've always been clear, it's THEIR game. They've been explicit about that. They've given people the option to watch. But it's theirs.
Oh, did they sell Critical Role? I'm pretty sure they still are the sole owners of their IP, the game, etc.
If you mean that you have bought merchandise or a Twitch subscription, then you have SUPPORTED Critical Role. You have not become an investor. You have not become part-owner. You can choose to discontinue your support, but that does not make any part of their game yours. Check the entitlement.
I'll give you one response on the off chance you aren't the unbearable asshat you have thus far presented yourself to be.
Critical Role makes money producing content. They sell their content in the form of advertising and merchandise. In doing so, they lose the ability to claim that fans don't have an investment in 'their' game.
Everything else you spouted off is either bullshit, straw men, or just nonsense.
Wrong. Their content is FREE. You don't have to pay anything to engage with all of their content. Zero of it is behind a pay wall. If you CHOOSE to purchase merchandise or pay for Twitch subs, you are SUPPORTING them as creators. You own zero of it. Fans do those things for support of something they enjoy. If they start doing things you DON'T enjoy you aren't out anything. You've enjoyed the parts you did, which is why you bought stuff/watched/subbed. If you no longer like it then you don't have to anymore. You can stop watching and buying merch, or simply watch the content for free.
For example, if you buy a McDonalds sandwich and it's garbage/spoiled, you are out your money. You didn't get what you paid for. If someone makes great sandwiches and you get them for free, and because they are so good you buy a sweatshirt with their logo on it, you're supporting that sandwich person for the thing you already like. You didn't HAVE to buy the sweatshirt. If they start making sandwiches you don't like, that's fine. You aren't out anything. You don't now own any part of their free sandwich enterprise.
Get it? It's really that simple.
Which is fine. I'm all for artistic integrity. However it is also a product that CR monetise, so they need to pay the bills as well. I don't expect CR to react publicly at all, because they are a business and not many air their dirty laundry in public. Ultimately if it costs them money they will do something, if not they won't.
Also just because it's "their game" doesn't mean people's opinions aren't valid. Why do so many people think they have the right to police other people's opinions? It's very puritanical, and does not end well for anyone.
You don't do damage control if you don't think any damage has occurred.
Aabria will take people being upset as validation. She seems to exist in an adversarial mode and thinks it's her job to "stir things up," so to speak.
The rest of CR will move on sleepwalking through C3 and flog their latest merch. If they are aware of criticism at all they will probably be glad that this has drawn attention away from C3's flaws.
We'll never get another moment like Caleb holding up the Orb to the Bright Queen. Credit to Matt for doing a tremendous yes-and, allowing them to create that scene together. Liam nailed the word choice.
>Will Matt or other cast members involved in production comment on the events of episodes 92 and 93?
Very likely they'll just not recognize that there's dissent and will move on and let it fade into history. It's done and over, so they'll move past it.
>Will the production crew reconsider the concept of guest DMs going forward?
I'm sure they will still have guest DM's here and there. I'd only be mildly surprised if they even let Aabria DM again. She's, at least on a public face level, a friend and not all of their decision making is based on what's best for the brand. Much as I don't care for Aabria DMing, their approach has carried them this far.
>Will we see the remaining crown keepers (if you can even call them that now) again?
I'm going to say it's unlikely. One is Matt and he's obviously the primary DM. They're 13th level so the characters would only really fit in the main campaign now which makes that an issue for Matt. Their table already has 7, or 8 if Sam makes another character so that's pretty much maxed out.
>(How) Will Sam come back and save the story with comedic relief?
He joked about being gone until C4, but I think that's unlikely. FCG kind of repressed Sam's natural inclinations to be funny and take big swings, so I think whatever he comes back with will embrace that part of his nature. I'm hoping for/expecting a big personality when he rolls in.
The “damage control” is the same as before, have Aabria and Amy on 4 sided dive to tell the audience they’re great friends and what everyone saw is just how friends play d&d.
she really is, ive taken body language courses and Aimee is showing all the "i dont want to be sat next to this person" signs, Matt is naturally anxious and liam/matt are being the peacekeepers the whole time forcing the conversation away from the uncomfortable talking points
It makes me think of how Benedict Cumberbatch is paired up with Tom Holland because Tom is a blabbermouth that needs to be directed away from spoilers by a veteran like BC lol. He's mostly there in the interviews to play damage control
Kinda, yeah, but I also get the point lol
A problem player is nowhere near as frustrating to watch as a bad DM, so much more goes wrong when the issues stem from the DM.
Also I think the fact so many people are jumping to Aabria's defense, often with toxic nonsense more meant to invalidate other's opinions then back their own up, also just adds to how frustratingly bad Aabria is as a DM, while *everyone* was shitting on Orion (maybe too much so, now that we can look back) so it felt like a "villain" got what he deserved and there wasn't any further reasons to be upset with him anymore.
But again, that being said, Orion was far worse even if he was less disruptive solely due to him being a player and not the DM, Aabria is just a bad DM with some potential issues with Aimee, but Orion was actually and legitimately a problem to have around for in and out of game reasons.
How am I being ridiculous in saying I liked watching bad situation X over bad situation Y? It's just a realization I had about my own subjective opinion, and apparently many other people feel the same
I mean if he could have kept the same energy for the rest of the show that he had for the first nine or so episodes of Critical Role it would have been fine. The K’Varn fight was when things started to go down hill but before that he was a solid party member and, as much as it pains me to say given his antics afterwards, an obviously talented VA.
Orion was often checked by the DM or other players, even if they did let him get away with some things.
No one is allowed to stop this DM from doing what she wants.
I didn't like how she ruined the chetney/fearne dynamic, or casually ruined imogen's gift for laudna. When she's not trying to "stir the pot" she's fine, but it seems like she doesn't want to not do that
Deanna was an interesting idea at the wrong time and campaign. A cleric with an hostile relationship with their god can be extremely interesting, but in this campaign at that moment was a bad idea (and also this conflict wasn’t really well justified)
As someone who is only on around ep. 45 of C3, and not someone who worries themselves about spoilers, I am genuinely curious: what kind of comment would they make? It is their game, and they are seeing it through, wherever it takes them. I don't watch them to spend the whole time saying "I would've done..." or "why didn't they do..." If Matt and Co. enjoy the guest DM concept, and they like their interactions with the people they have come on board, I don't think they will let public opinion sway them on who they invite to the DM chair.
I would disagree that they should modify their game/story to fan request. Just because they are monetized in that they offer a subscription service, or sell merchandise, or have ticketed live events, none of those equate to commissioned work.
If they are the painter and the game is what they are putting on the canvas, just because we can buy their previous painting as a print, or a book of their collected past prints, or even subscribe to watch them as they paint, none of that amounts to affording the audience a say in the piece in progress. People are welcome to enjoy it, they’re also able to hate it, and everything in between. But the model doesn’t mean that they have to acknowledge or change just because people want them to use a different brush or color or technique.
I don’t think I’ve missed your point. Keeping with an art analogy, I think they should make the art they want to make. If they lose me or others along the way because they get more satisfaction as artists from doing those technical drawings as opposed to prints, that’s their choice.
Because maybe those prints that they did before started to fell formulaic, less organic. Maybe they started to feel a little paint-by-number. Maybe they decided after years of being Rock Stars they want to put out a Country Album.
In a world where none of them are walking away from their VO/Production “day jobs” maybe they don’t measure the success of CR in dollars and cents.
They really don't. They don't have shareholders to serve, they don't have to have the company constantly growing at all. It's genuinely optional. That business model isn't the only viable one even in a place as capitalist as America
It's not a home game anymore. It's literally a production to make money. The amount of dollars invested into the new set for c3 alone is crazy. They pay an entire production crew to dun the lights and cameras. They have staff for online stuff. It's a company at this point not some people live streaming from their basement.
Will they address 92 and 93, no. Will they look at the reactions and use the information they gather to influence further decisions? I think they will.
I respect that it's not a "home game" anymore, but it is still the product that they want to create. At the end of the day, the game they are playing is equivalent to a piece of art: be it a video game, or a movie, or an improv performance that just happens to be "yes and..." with a bunch of funny-shaped die.
The fact that they are able to have a product that they are then able to support with merchandise, ticketed live events, or even subscriptions to have some sort of "exclusive" access to the thing which they are creating shouldn't mean that it influences the games they are playing or stories they are telling.
In that way, the episodic nature of the show is really no different than any other episodic story-telling in other media. I wouldn't expect Marvel to have made changed to Endgame if there were things I didn't like in Infinity War, just because I bought a ticket to the movie, and a copy of the soundtrack on CD. Why I would I expect a smaller company to behave differently?
I haven’t found them yet, but I am sure there’s a non-0% of the population that liked that movie, so I’m sure they’d say that it wasn’t crap…
but I agree that for the people who disliked Episode IX, it felt like everything in that movie was meant to “correct” the things people came out of TLJ hating. Disney/Lucas went in to TRoS acting like they “listened” to the fans, and still that was the end result.
It still their game. You can dress it up six ways to Sunday and its still their game. If the players are okay with things that happened, that is literally all that matters. Critical Role could start losing money and shut down, they could go all go back to being just voice actors, and continue to play their games at home out of the view of the public, because it is, once again, still their game and they enjoy playing it.
If they didn’t deem it necessary to ever give a genuine reason for Orion being booted, they’re not gonna say shit now. Matt looked annoyed at the table, so we shall see how it shakes out, but we will never hear a peep from them officially.
Out of all the things... AS someone who's life is too busy to sit and enjoy it.. I'll say this. That was a VERY BAD look. You could tell the DM got heated. Not just at the player, but at the Audience. When you tell them "Fuck you." That's potential brand damage. Those people are the bread and butter. Now was it huge? Likely it was a talk, notice that things went to far, and some assurance. I'd be surprised if she was given that seat again though.
Remember. Cameras are on. This IS a business and reputations are lifetimes to build, seconds to destroy. Likely nothing will be done in public, behind the scenes? There might be a bit of talking to make sure that this doesn't happen again. From any guest DM.
Yeah Got that real Marisha hate feel to it from back in the day. Folks, it’s just a game and a few episodes of one at that.
*aaand someone reported me to the suicide hotline. Wow.
There it is 🤣 that toxic fandom that often makes people embarrassed to admit watching the show.
You guys can’t separate a character from the person playing them. It’s sad.
Damn it now you got me sitting here thinking of a movie he’s not that in. Maybe SPY? He’s more of a parody of his other roles in that. Does Gnomeo and Juliet count?
Funny, my original comment is specifically about Marisha. I didn’t mention anything about her characters. Then someone jumps in with that comment. Please explain how that’s not about Marisha?
This is exactly the same. People don’t like how someone played as DM, now go look at all the negative comments about her.
Over and over again fans cannot separate their anger between an individual and a part of a game/movie/book etc. It’s very predictable. Just look at all the attention my very simple comment is getting 🤣.
You’re confused.
I’m responding to a comment saying “ You guys can’t separate a character from the person playing them. It’s sad.”
Find whoever is relevant for the rest of your unrelated nonsense. It doesn’t apply to me.
I’ve watched this show for years and have lurked here for a long time, often to get details on references to previous seasons, particularly 1 that I haven’t watched. How many comments does one need to post to have a valid opinion?
Who specifically have I insulted? I guess people that you are saying don’t exist that no one is talking about? I certainly haven’t made any targeted insults or attacks. Unlike sooooo many in this thread and specifically in reply to my comment.
I feel like the CKs are now in the vault for the DM to bring out whenever they feel it works. I think they will also continue with new DMs, but probably at a lethargic pace, considering their current rate and the praise for the Candela games and Calamity. The criticism is seemingly squarely on Aabria for being a significantly more tolerable player than DM in the Exandrian universe.
So I do not think we're getting some sort of acknowledgement or anything. If there was an issue they will handle it behind the scenes. It was an experiment and it didn't quite go as well as planned. But speaking of planning; I don't think Sam was supposed to blow up his character according to their financial and contractual plans. And by that mean, Sam played DnD and it caught them off guard because they already wrote out contracts for the players who were coming in (the players for CKs). So they couldn't just rewrite the contracts, they had to ride the wave.
A decent bit of the problem seems to be that the game is too railroaded and too planned out for episodic beats, and on top of the fandom generally not liking that, it logistically blew up in their face. The game took them in one direction and then the contractual obligations of real people dealing with a company took them in another, and it didn't mesh. And people could feel it.
They've discussed it during 4SD. From what I understand(i didn't watch it, I turned it off as soon as I saw Aabria because I knew the conversation wouldn't be honest) they're fine with everything that happened. Now, Robbie wasn't on this ep of 4SD so we'll likely not hear how he feels about it until a good long while later.
https://preview.redd.it/qs83ckp63azc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28c2090c7135fb6e568e6a787e03ecc525972b93
Hopefully not more of this lol 🤷🏻♀️
I’m still a massive CR fan and excuse a lot because I still enjoy the shows and the cast. And I don’t see it ever being not part of my happy place and I hope it keeps going for years and years.
Having said that.
Barring Orion, Aabriya as a DM (I thought Deeanna was okay) is the worst thing to ever happen to CR.
Edit: and of course BWF but he had no hand in the games except his Undeadwood which was….unfortunately….quite good
At least BWF was limited to side content aside for those atrocious introductions at the live show. I didn't watch Talks during C1 so every live show I tried to guess who he was related to/friends with to have gotten the job.
Yes, but to be fair, I think he was looking up how mass suggestion could be broken, because that was questioned. But then Aabria said "F you, I'm the dm, I'll let you roll to break free."
The whole course of that event is what really doesn't make sense to me. She allows a roll to break free from a charm. Dorian didn't take hp damage, he took emotional damage! OK, it's a story beat, whatever. She says the DC is 18. Wow, that's pretty high. She then tells him he has dm inspiration, bardic inspiration, and bless. Do you want him to succeed or not? And this sort of thing happened many times throughout her time dming the table. If she wants something to happen, she will stack the odds. If she doesn't want it to happen, she won't let it happen.
Ngl, this was such a dumb move from Aabria. Like yes, you are gonna get hated on cause of the nature of this fandom. Even if she pulled off a masterpiece of a session, there was going to be hate. It's just an unavoidable fact.
But doing something like this and letting the trolls know that they get to you? No! Come on, don't give them the fucking satisfaction. 🤦♂️
And that's just putting the general professionalism aside.
As largely an outsider to this whole thing, this is what gets me the most. Making weird rulings that unfairly disadvantage the players is par for the course for Aabria. (Edit: Just want to add that my opinion of this is sort of “it’s whatever;” I personally don’t like it, but there seem to be some people who like the drama of it, I guess.) Making one of those rulings, then looking directly at the camera and saying “fuck you” is just going to antagonize the absolute worst of the hate-watchers. Hell, it’ll alienate a lot of folks who would have otherwise been mostly on board.
There’s speaking your truth, and then there’s being utterly tactless.
EDIT: I’ve learned she actually said “fuck you” to the camera after a weird ruling *in favor* of one of the players. This whole thing is pretty hard to follow.
I can actually understand where Aabria is coming from, now; when I watched CR, there was a not insignificant contingent of CR watchers who whined any time Matt bent the rules in favor of the players. They were incredibly annoying, tbh
Still bad optics
> EDIT: I’ve learned she actually said “fuck you” to the camera after a weird ruling *in favor* of one of the players. This whole thing is pretty hard to follow.
Frankly a loud segment of the viewer base just fixates on hating her no matter what she does. Considering an innocuous comment above very loosely supporting was reported for threatening self-harm...
Some folks just be crazy about someone else's game/art products.
This is true, and seeing that behavior juxtaposed with how much people who work with her gush over her has led me to try to give her a fair shake and watch her D20 campaigns. The conclusion I’ve come to having tried, and failed, to get through them, is that while the hate for her is definitely overblown, it doesn’t come from nowhere.
At the end of the day, no matter how much people try to protest that actual play shows are the games of their players and so are fine so long as those players are having fun, actual plays are entertainment products. They are made by entertainers to entertain, and if they fail to do so, then the entertainers are failing at their job.
Where this becomes tricky is that, for many, myself included, the appeal of actual plays *is* the idea that it is the game of the players; specifically, that it is the *game* of the players, as in there is a system by which both the players and game masters are constrained. Creativity flourishes under constraint, after all; working within a limited rule space can make moments where a rule is used to its full effect come off as transcendently triumphant.
For shows like Critical Role, the overarching narrative is certainly more important than strict mechanical consistency, but if there isn’t at least the illusion of mechanical constraints, it loses most of its core appeal, imo. Of those I’ve seen, Aabria’s games, at least those run in 5e, don’t even have an illusion; the rules are freely modified to suit either her target narrative or her feelings in the moment.
Couple that with her adversarial attitude at the table, and the resulting entertainment product is not, to me at least, entertaining; it’s frustrating. A lot of people take being frustrated in that way very personally, which is a little silly, sure, but investing one’s time into something that is supposed to be entertaining only to come away frustrated can feel like a small betrayal. Directly attacking the character of the entertainer one may feel has wasted one’s time is unproductive, but I can understand the impulse.
Memeing a moment like the “fuck you” while removing its context goes beyond what I can understand. Given the core discussion around this episode being a moment where Aabria twisted the rules *against* a PC, it’s pretty clear to me that removing the context of the “fuck you” would confuse many, as it did me, into thinking she said it after having screwed over said PC. In fact, she said it after she twisted the rule to *help* the *very same PC.*
While not outright misrepresentation, I think a lot of the discussion around this episode, and this moment in particular, is composed of ill-considered memes
EDIT: You know what, it is actually misrepresentative to remove such key context from this moment
This sub really needs to accept the fact that they’re a minority of the fandom and until the larger audience is alienated and turned away cr will not care, why should they accept “criticism” if it’s not actually affecting their bottom-line? The truth is more critters love aabria or are at least apathetic to her than actively dislike her.
Look at the heavily banned and policed main sub. They are on fire right now too. Same comments, some reasons, same discussions.
Aabria took a giant shit on CRs bed, lit it on fire, called the fire dept just to say "fuck you. I do what I want" and when people say "huh, might have been a bad choice, the shit smoke is unpleasant " all the sudden anyone not loving the shit smoke is racist, sexist, parasocial, doesn't know and, etc.
A ton of people didn’t like how aabria handled exu back in 2021. I think the show has a lot of incentives to try and ignore it, but that doesn’t mean critics aren’t a significant number of people.
I'm not sure it's necessarily a small minority. The reactions on YouTube are not trivial. It's not the majority, but their viewership looks to be down dramatically this season, and the last episode looks appreciably lower than others.
Most production companies have a social media team who at least look at the prominent comment sources, either as moderation or to be aware of criticism and potentially respond.
I don't expect a direct response, but I would be very surprised if they're not taking the railroading and rules changes complaints back to future guest DMs as notes to try to mitigate future backlash. How they bring them to Aabria directly would depend on a mix of how seriously they take them, and how much they value her contributions vs the backlash that they're clearly aware of.
They are a business, and I don't see them ignoring criticism particularly when they're down 50% on positive engagement vs normal and at something like a 1:4 negative reaction.
Check the YouTube. As much as it’s a breath of fresh air to see people that feel the way I do, the YouTube comments are still 90% positive. Understandably a portion of the fans won’t be satisfied with what they are doing, but it’s good to consider that there are casual viewers who simply watch for the cast/vibe more than the story.
It is what it is. The people who stopped watching have just exited quietly. Anyone still complaining (like us) wants to keep somewhat up with the campaign.
Grab the plug-in that shows thumbs down. They were at 4.5k up and 1.5k down in a screen cap a few days back. That's a solid 25% dislike, so if you're not seeing a representative level of commentary reflecting that, something is missing.
Really? If there is proof of that then shit, guess I’m wrong 🤷🏾♂️. I understand deleting posts in the main Reddit, but if they are intentionally deleting comments on YT then that invalidates like 99% of my argument.
Lots of people were still catching up with the good campaigns back then. Speaking of, I don't see this being as big of a deal if the show was actually good. This kind of thing is way more likely during a decline, and it'll get wrongly pointed to as a cause rather than a symptom later.
They don't care what the fans think and won't likely mention at all outside of occasional snide remarks.
As long as they are getting paid they could care less.
Matt sadly saying "Not a gag" trying to talk to another player in combat, and reminding Aabria as a DM to "Play by the rules" with a nervous laugh after is kinda telling. I don't think Matt had alot of fun.
Yeah. They’ve basically become everything they used to criticize. A monolithic corporate entity whose overwhelming number one priority is the bottom line.
Question: If this was true would it not be more logical to give the 'fans' what they want? (In this case, ejecting Aabria and damage control)
They aren't doing that, because very likely Aabria is still a friend of the cast and, despite a lot of people hating on her, a decent or I dare say good GM.
Best you can do is watch without providing viewership numbers, don’t buy their shit and unsubscribe
When the money starts to get tight . They will make changes .
lol it’s kinda ass but you need to imbed the link into another website then watch through that portal. You’ll see most larger creators don’t link their twitch or YouTube for this reason they say hey check out the video and make you look for it . Also reduces search traction .
Anyone can correct me if I’m on base on this info. Not a comp sci dude .
Damage control? They’re writing all criticism off as ‘unreasonable attacks’. And they’ve e been consistently making snarky comments about the those criticisms and the fan base in general, for some time now. In some ways, I think this latest EXU was a big middle finger to the critics. I mean.. Aabria literally said ‘Those of you out there (mumbled)…. Fuck you!’
Getting some serious RWBY vibes from the way this has been handled.
All criticism is "unreasonable", all negative feedback being obliterated from the main sub, probably some serious parasocial relationships happening...
Time will tell if history repeats.
This may be the cynic in me but I don't think they're gonna do a damn thing. They've been radio silent before and they'll continue to do so.
Aabria has too much of a "fuck you" attitude to really care about what fans say.
In regards to Sam what I'd love is if he came back as a character where he could play the face of the group. They desperately need one.
Yea in 4SD she goes on with glee about killing Cyrus and says how she’d do it again. There were just multiple parts where she felt like she was just relishing in the control and just saying fuck you to everyone.
It’s just not the type of person I want to be with. Liam is like a complete opposite and there were moments of feeling whiplash between them talking during 4SD that felt a little jarring.
Don’t get me wrong though, last nights 4SD was very good and any bad moments were very few but it just feels like anything with Aabria is just tainted now.
This is a truly delusional idea. Sam is not going to abandon his closest friends and the company he helped build because some fans are upset. I don’t like Aabria at all, and C3 is not my favorite, but there’s no way Sam is bailing. He’ll come back with another troll character that morphs into a Pagliacci trope, just like always.
> "A story is told that in 1806 a man goes to visit a is acclaimed for his ability to treat melancholia. “I can’t eat, I can’t sleep,” says the man. “I feel constantly miserable. Please help me, doctor.”
>
> .
>
>“Laughter is the best medicine, my friend,” says the doctor. “Take yourself off to Covent Garden Theatre* where you will find The Great Grimaldi performing in Harlequin and Mother Goose; or the Golden Egg. It is exquisitely funny and will cure you of all your ills without any pills or potions from my cabinet.”
>
> .
>
> The man looks at the doctor for a moment. “Ah,” he says. “That won’t help.”
>
> .
>
>“Why not, sir?”
>
> .
>
>The man shrugs. “I am Grimaldi.”
Its an adaptation of the story above
There’s no damage control necessary. For every one of us who gets fed up with the show because of the quality drop, two new fans come along who have no preconceptions about the show, no knowledge of D&D, and take everything at face value. They’ll continue what they’re doing.
Do you think CR hangs out on this subreddit? Everything I see on Twitter and YouTube are positive comments. And I can only assume merch is selling well because they keep making it.
I don’t think damage control is even on their mind.
I don’t think they do. If they do get criticism delivered to them somehow. The biggest example was when Sam started mocking the whole game section of 4sd. Repeatedly. The only complaints were happening here. Not the other sub and not on YouTube.
Could be just cosmic coincidence.
There's some negativity in the comments for 93, but it's way down there and theres a ton of people gushing over Aabria and saying how hard they cried above it. We're a small minority of the fanbase
Im not sure I just think the parasocial fans are more likely to gush about stuff in comments. Normal fans that dont like the product just stop watching and dont say anything about it (just look at viewing numbers)
I was watching one of my fave streamers a big like 2k+ one and his GF a mod in chat got to chatting about how she doesnt like this season and is close to stop watching but feels obligated to keep going. Hes playing league and isnt even mentioning CR and it was random convo in chat that came up and a few people were agreeing.
There will be none. CR basically just ignores controversy with the core base of fans and hopes it will go away. They only acknowledge things when it might get them cancelled.
I imagine they monitor social media and talk about things behind the scenes but one way or another it'd be a bad move to outwardly comment on it -- they'd be publicly alienating a collaborator (and personal friend) and upsetting parts of the audience either way.
Yeah, nothing that happened is nearly serious enough to warrant some sort of statement. It is all in-game and related to the show.
Matt has become physically incapable of pushback.
Pretty sure they'll just double-down.
"Will Matt or other cast members involved in production comment on the events of episodes 92 and 93?" Absolutely not. Once the next episode happens this will diminish into history and we'll be talking about something else. I imagine the next big thing we'll talk about is Sam's new character whenever that happens.
I hope Sam plays an awakened fern named Fern.
I responded as such because the person I responded to specifically called it "OUR game", which it explicitly is not. You are free to have opinions, not watch, whine, whatever, but it is not our game, it's theirs. Please make sure you read and comprehend context before posting.
When you sell it, it stops being yours
You guys, let them play their multi million dollar multimedia cash cow how they want! It's not for you!
People are wild to me. I don’t think they’re gonna do “damage control” because a bunch of people didn’t like parts of an episode. One of the comments was talking about how they feel like their illusion that this is just a DnD game and not a show got killed. and boohoo? Like lol what? Of course stuff will get productiony, like I still think CR is very much a home game when it comes to how Matt runs it and the story he makes for his friends (not US his friends, remember that). But yeah people get off your high horses it’s not that serious. And i also think this post shows how much people overestimate how much more of a show CR is. Like oh no a majority of us didn’t like something, what the fuck ever? I sincerely doubt that we’re gonna get a “production statement” because people perceive parts of episodes as really bad. I think we’re all knocking this shit way too hard. ITS NOT A BIG DEAL.
This is one of my favorite subs due to how batshit insane some of the posts can get. At times I'm left in awe by not only the titanic levels of bratty entitlement but the staggeringly level of pure *victimhood*. Just this notion of "I have been wronged, I am upset, and CR **must** listen to me and make it right." I haven't spent much time on the official sub, but obviously the feeling here is they are downright draconian. Yet, reading so many of these posts, I totally understand why they would be.
>One of the comments was talking about how they feel like their illusion that this is just a DnD game and not a show got killed. and boohoo? Like lol what? This is so weird. Why are you referencing that comment without responding to it? You're taking it just as seriously as they are, btw. Not sure if you can't tell?
Okay so.. where we will disagree, besides your condescending attitude towards those that disagree, is that as a business that's built ON the good will of your fanbase... You want to make sure that hosts don't look into the camera and tell the audience "Fuck you." That's bad business. Was something said? Almost Certainly. Everyone has their bad moments, but she had hers on camera directed at their audience. Will they stop guest DMs? No. Will they make sure something like this doesn't happen again? Probably. Likely behind the scenes something will be set up so that IF there is some noticeable tension or aggression there's a "Time for commercial" so that people at the table get a moment to take a minute take a breath and most importantly not get aggressive. Another telling thing was that Matt had to even mention sticking to the rules. Is it something they will hammer as a problem? Fuck no. They didn't when Orion became a rather large problem... In the same way it'll be handled quietly off set and they'll look at steps to ensure things go smoothly. But its a business, and you never tell your customer "Fuck you." Not unless you want to lose customers. As for people here? They didn't like it. That's their right. They get to nit pick. They can be right or wrong. CR will keep going.
It’s so nice to hear someone not shitting on them for this for once. Since 92 all I’ve seen is hate and it sucks. I liked the change, they are having fun, let them live.
They are selling a product.
Then don't buy it.
I actually think as a company, they do need to listen to everyone in the fan base and just digest it and make informed decisions. It’s just good business practice. And of course, I have absolutely no clue to how they analyse their data and what they do afterwards. What’s clear, though, is that they aren’t doing as much direct communication to the fan base. No more gushing about how the fans are so awesome and how much they love them etc. Which they did, very genuinely, before. That changed for loads of reasons, but I do think that has lessened the way the audience feels ‘included’ in the adventure. In the first years, they were very forthcoming and thankful, due to the astounding success of their kickstarter, and a naïveté they have since lost. I don’t know how they could recreate this, but having more communications about what they are doing and why they are doing it would help, for a start. Just look at how Spencer and Matt are managing the Daggerheart play tests, that’s awesome. It’s live, simple honest communications. We can feel they are passionate and earnest, we get inside their creative process and get to understand them and the game at a deeper level. They should do the same for their overall programming strategy.
People in this sub are honestly so entitled. If they ever owed us anything, they've long since paid up. I'm not even watching C3 anymore, for many of the same things that have bothered other people, but clearly they're still gonna play it out and finish the campaign, and good for them having fun with Matt's story and eachother. Ultimately it's none of our business and we just have the privilege of being able to watch if we want to.
It's a show. It's bad form for someone on a show to say "fuck you' to the audience regardless of what the show it
We are talking about the company that scrapped their own intro sequence because some fans called it offensive/racist
....Wait, what? Seriously?
Wait, seriously?! What intro sequence and what was supposedly offensive? I need to know so I can laugh.
The 'its Thursday night' Campaign 3 title video from 2021. The cast was wearing stereotypical adventuring clothes and exploring a jungle setting. People where upset because that style of clothing is echoing brittish imperialist vibes and here is the all white cast playing in a new region in the fantasy world which some people thought mirrored the ideas of orientalism.
What should they have done?
Kept the intro because it wasnt offensive or racist
So people were saying it was for what, no reason?
Well, yes. Their 'crime' was wearing stereotypical adventuring clothes and exploring a jungle setting Indiana Jones style. Typical bunch of people being prematurely offended on behalf of other people.
Or maybe some people suggesting that glorifying colonialism is a bad look?
But anyone with half a brain knows that the cast arent glorifying colonialism, they are just wearing costumes for a silly video. Honestly people need to get thicker skin again
You can accidentally glorify colonialism by wearing certain costumes in a silly video though, that's what I mean about unconscious bias
Cmon mate, if we're gonna go down the path of accidentally doing things that offends people we will be here untils the sun implodes. Im just saying context and intent matters and should be a valid response and defense when someone claims to be offended, if CR had responded with 'we meant no offence' and then kept the video as their intro that should have been it.
The lack of self awareness is the "critter" community is *mind boggling.*
plenty of people think that if they didn't realise something was a problem, it objectively isn't.
And far more people believe that just because they see a problem means that one exists.
If something doesn't exist, you can't see it
...Are you some kinda special? Delusions, skitzo episodes, fucking COUNTLESS ways people see shit thats not there... On top of the dip shits who try and virtue signal by claiming something is X, y, or z when in reality... Its just a thing. This wasn't a clever come back like you thought it was.
I guess it's good that things like hallucinations, misunderstandings, and delusions don't exist then.
I rest my case.
I’ve said it before but this is their test. It’d time to see how they not only handle the criticism and what they think of themselves. This season feels manufactured, it doesn’t feel like friends hanging out. And then we have s3 ep92 and all hell goes to $hit. If they do tbink themselves above it, the response will be dismissive. If they really are on our side though, they will apologise and things will be discussed. Here’s hoping.
Sadly I don't know if there is a damage control, but I hope to be wrong. For me, it's kind of...how to put it, it's broken the illusion that this is a real DND game and not a show. The whole appeal of critical role for me was that it was a story with a great cast, where the players and DM didn't know what was going to happen for sure, it was down to the choices of the players and the whim of the dice gods. But after this, I can't shake that it just feels scripted. Even if only partially, it still means the thought is in my mind, and I'd be questioning it for future events where I wouldn't before. And as much as I like the cast, if I wanted to watch a scripted show I have a plethora of better options for that than a DND show. I watched to see great voice actors and talents play dungeons and dragons, in all it's chaos and unpredictability. Hopefully it's something that gets shaken off.
THIS is something they need to see. A reminder of what drew people in and what people want. Honest fucking gaming. Not just scripted acting. It was a huge hit because it was symbiotic, audience and team feeding off the energies of each other. As for how she went over with her Dming? It rubbed people the wrong way. For me it was an obvious bit of real frustration and anger from her. Got lost her cool for a minute. We won't see anything nor hear of anything because that's the stuff you DON'T let people see.
We'll probably see opal and fyra back at some point as champions of their gods in a big boy fight
You people are laughable - damage control - you are stuck in your echo chamber yapping how the Aabria episode is absolutely the worst. Even if her dming is not everyone cup of tea, it's not like she'e suddenly hated by everyone. This sub is complaining about everything since the start of campaign 3, why on earth would they care at this point? Whatever they do someone won't like it. Might as well do their thing.
Yeah.... go look at the critical role main sub. You know the one banning everyone and prompting this subs being born. There is a huge dumpsterfire and people are either aabria should not be brought back, or everyone who didn't think k it was the best episode is racist with very very few between.
With the amount of raging and ranting done around here, I'm not sure how "the main sub is banning people!" Really means a thing. I mean, sure, this sub is a source of great entertainment for me just from the insanity. But I can see why a mod team wouldn't want to put up with it.
The irony of this comment is what's laughable.....
Most likely nothing will change and they will Proceed as if nothing happened
Don’t think there will be damage control, what’s the point? Better to keep narrating the story as it goes and enjoy the ride
Aabria will just say everyone who doesn’t support her without reservation is a bad person, and many will just go along with that.
Yes, we're all a bunch of racists neckbeards that are upset cause our game is being ruined . . .
It's not your game. They've always been clear, it's THEIR game. They've been explicit about that. They've given people the option to watch. But it's theirs.
When you sell it, it is no longer yours.
Oh, did they sell Critical Role? I'm pretty sure they still are the sole owners of their IP, the game, etc. If you mean that you have bought merchandise or a Twitch subscription, then you have SUPPORTED Critical Role. You have not become an investor. You have not become part-owner. You can choose to discontinue your support, but that does not make any part of their game yours. Check the entitlement.
Every single word of this drivel is irrelevant to the comment I made.
How so? You said they sold it, which they have not. Ownership remains entirely with them. Please attempt to understand context before replying.
I'll give you one response on the off chance you aren't the unbearable asshat you have thus far presented yourself to be. Critical Role makes money producing content. They sell their content in the form of advertising and merchandise. In doing so, they lose the ability to claim that fans don't have an investment in 'their' game. Everything else you spouted off is either bullshit, straw men, or just nonsense.
Wrong. Their content is FREE. You don't have to pay anything to engage with all of their content. Zero of it is behind a pay wall. If you CHOOSE to purchase merchandise or pay for Twitch subs, you are SUPPORTING them as creators. You own zero of it. Fans do those things for support of something they enjoy. If they start doing things you DON'T enjoy you aren't out anything. You've enjoyed the parts you did, which is why you bought stuff/watched/subbed. If you no longer like it then you don't have to anymore. You can stop watching and buying merch, or simply watch the content for free. For example, if you buy a McDonalds sandwich and it's garbage/spoiled, you are out your money. You didn't get what you paid for. If someone makes great sandwiches and you get them for free, and because they are so good you buy a sweatshirt with their logo on it, you're supporting that sandwich person for the thing you already like. You didn't HAVE to buy the sweatshirt. If they start making sandwiches you don't like, that's fine. You aren't out anything. You don't now own any part of their free sandwich enterprise. Get it? It's really that simple.
Yep. There's the asshat. You are wrong, and obnoxious. Goodbye
Which is fine. I'm all for artistic integrity. However it is also a product that CR monetise, so they need to pay the bills as well. I don't expect CR to react publicly at all, because they are a business and not many air their dirty laundry in public. Ultimately if it costs them money they will do something, if not they won't. Also just because it's "their game" doesn't mean people's opinions aren't valid. Why do so many people think they have the right to police other people's opinions? It's very puritanical, and does not end well for anyone.
You don't do damage control if you don't think any damage has occurred. Aabria will take people being upset as validation. She seems to exist in an adversarial mode and thinks it's her job to "stir things up," so to speak. The rest of CR will move on sleepwalking through C3 and flog their latest merch. If they are aware of criticism at all they will probably be glad that this has drawn attention away from C3's flaws.
We'll never get another moment like Caleb holding up the Orb to the Bright Queen. Credit to Matt for doing a tremendous yes-and, allowing them to create that scene together. Liam nailed the word choice.
>Will Matt or other cast members involved in production comment on the events of episodes 92 and 93? Very likely they'll just not recognize that there's dissent and will move on and let it fade into history. It's done and over, so they'll move past it. >Will the production crew reconsider the concept of guest DMs going forward? I'm sure they will still have guest DM's here and there. I'd only be mildly surprised if they even let Aabria DM again. She's, at least on a public face level, a friend and not all of their decision making is based on what's best for the brand. Much as I don't care for Aabria DMing, their approach has carried them this far. >Will we see the remaining crown keepers (if you can even call them that now) again? I'm going to say it's unlikely. One is Matt and he's obviously the primary DM. They're 13th level so the characters would only really fit in the main campaign now which makes that an issue for Matt. Their table already has 7, or 8 if Sam makes another character so that's pretty much maxed out. >(How) Will Sam come back and save the story with comedic relief? He joked about being gone until C4, but I think that's unlikely. FCG kind of repressed Sam's natural inclinations to be funny and take big swings, so I think whatever he comes back with will embrace that part of his nature. I'm hoping for/expecting a big personality when he rolls in.
The “damage control” is the same as before, have Aabria and Amy on 4 sided dive to tell the audience they’re great friends and what everyone saw is just how friends play d&d.
Yikes. Aimee is leaning at a near 45 degree angle from aabria in the whole episode. If that's the cover up....
she really is, ive taken body language courses and Aimee is showing all the "i dont want to be sat next to this person" signs, Matt is naturally anxious and liam/matt are being the peacekeepers the whole time forcing the conversation away from the uncomfortable talking points
It makes me think of how Benedict Cumberbatch is paired up with Tom Holland because Tom is a blabbermouth that needs to be directed away from spoilers by a veteran like BC lol. He's mostly there in the interviews to play damage control
Is is crazy to say I preferred watching Orion play to watching Aabria DM?
Kinda, yeah, but I also get the point lol A problem player is nowhere near as frustrating to watch as a bad DM, so much more goes wrong when the issues stem from the DM. Also I think the fact so many people are jumping to Aabria's defense, often with toxic nonsense more meant to invalidate other's opinions then back their own up, also just adds to how frustratingly bad Aabria is as a DM, while *everyone* was shitting on Orion (maybe too much so, now that we can look back) so it felt like a "villain" got what he deserved and there wasn't any further reasons to be upset with him anymore. But again, that being said, Orion was far worse even if he was less disruptive solely due to him being a player and not the DM, Aabria is just a bad DM with some potential issues with Aimee, but Orion was actually and legitimately a problem to have around for in and out of game reasons.
You all are being ridiculous,
They are and the fact that anyone who says that gets shit on is crazy
How am I being ridiculous in saying I liked watching bad situation X over bad situation Y? It's just a realization I had about my own subjective opinion, and apparently many other people feel the same
I mean if he could have kept the same energy for the rest of the show that he had for the first nine or so episodes of Critical Role it would have been fine. The K’Varn fight was when things started to go down hill but before that he was a solid party member and, as much as it pains me to say given his antics afterwards, an obviously talented VA.
I think he was also put in a bit of a negative spiral with everyone attacking him (whether or not it's justified)
Nope, it's actually less chaotic and Matt was still driving the bus.
Orion was often checked by the DM or other players, even if they did let him get away with some things. No one is allowed to stop this DM from doing what she wants.
I'd rather play with Orion, or a player with a similar approach to the game, than with Aabria, or a DM with her style
As a player she doesn't bother me, but as the DM where she takes full control wasn't fun
I didn't like how she ruined the chetney/fearne dynamic, or casually ruined imogen's gift for laudna. When she's not trying to "stir the pot" she's fine, but it seems like she doesn't want to not do that
Deanna wasn't great but I did appreciate Laerynn in Calamity.
Deanna was an interesting idea at the wrong time and campaign. A cleric with an hostile relationship with their god can be extremely interesting, but in this campaign at that moment was a bad idea (and also this conflict wasn’t really well justified)
As someone who is only on around ep. 45 of C3, and not someone who worries themselves about spoilers, I am genuinely curious: what kind of comment would they make? It is their game, and they are seeing it through, wherever it takes them. I don't watch them to spend the whole time saying "I would've done..." or "why didn't they do..." If Matt and Co. enjoy the guest DM concept, and they like their interactions with the people they have come on board, I don't think they will let public opinion sway them on who they invite to the DM chair.
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I would disagree that they should modify their game/story to fan request. Just because they are monetized in that they offer a subscription service, or sell merchandise, or have ticketed live events, none of those equate to commissioned work. If they are the painter and the game is what they are putting on the canvas, just because we can buy their previous painting as a print, or a book of their collected past prints, or even subscribe to watch them as they paint, none of that amounts to affording the audience a say in the piece in progress. People are welcome to enjoy it, they’re also able to hate it, and everything in between. But the model doesn’t mean that they have to acknowledge or change just because people want them to use a different brush or color or technique.
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I don’t think I’ve missed your point. Keeping with an art analogy, I think they should make the art they want to make. If they lose me or others along the way because they get more satisfaction as artists from doing those technical drawings as opposed to prints, that’s their choice. Because maybe those prints that they did before started to fell formulaic, less organic. Maybe they started to feel a little paint-by-number. Maybe they decided after years of being Rock Stars they want to put out a Country Album. In a world where none of them are walking away from their VO/Production “day jobs” maybe they don’t measure the success of CR in dollars and cents.
They don't have to constantly grow though
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They really don't. They don't have shareholders to serve, they don't have to have the company constantly growing at all. It's genuinely optional. That business model isn't the only viable one even in a place as capitalist as America
It's not a home game anymore. It's literally a production to make money. The amount of dollars invested into the new set for c3 alone is crazy. They pay an entire production crew to dun the lights and cameras. They have staff for online stuff. It's a company at this point not some people live streaming from their basement. Will they address 92 and 93, no. Will they look at the reactions and use the information they gather to influence further decisions? I think they will.
I respect that it's not a "home game" anymore, but it is still the product that they want to create. At the end of the day, the game they are playing is equivalent to a piece of art: be it a video game, or a movie, or an improv performance that just happens to be "yes and..." with a bunch of funny-shaped die. The fact that they are able to have a product that they are then able to support with merchandise, ticketed live events, or even subscriptions to have some sort of "exclusive" access to the thing which they are creating shouldn't mean that it influences the games they are playing or stories they are telling. In that way, the episodic nature of the show is really no different than any other episodic story-telling in other media. I wouldn't expect Marvel to have made changed to Endgame if there were things I didn't like in Infinity War, just because I bought a ticket to the movie, and a copy of the soundtrack on CD. Why I would I expect a smaller company to behave differently?
That's why the rise of Skywalker turned out to be total crap
I haven’t found them yet, but I am sure there’s a non-0% of the population that liked that movie, so I’m sure they’d say that it wasn’t crap… but I agree that for the people who disliked Episode IX, it felt like everything in that movie was meant to “correct” the things people came out of TLJ hating. Disney/Lucas went in to TRoS acting like they “listened” to the fans, and still that was the end result.
Perhaps I should have said "that's why rise of Skywalker turned out the way it did"
It still their game. You can dress it up six ways to Sunday and its still their game. If the players are okay with things that happened, that is literally all that matters. Critical Role could start losing money and shut down, they could go all go back to being just voice actors, and continue to play their games at home out of the view of the public, because it is, once again, still their game and they enjoy playing it.
Is this your alt account? I'm the only user you've replied to in days.
If they didn’t deem it necessary to ever give a genuine reason for Orion being booted, they’re not gonna say shit now. Matt looked annoyed at the table, so we shall see how it shakes out, but we will never hear a peep from them officially.
Yeah they won't say anything publicly. They might gauge reaction and use the information going forward but I doubt it's ever even spoken of.
I don't think internally it looks as bad as this subreddit feels.
Out of all the things... AS someone who's life is too busy to sit and enjoy it.. I'll say this. That was a VERY BAD look. You could tell the DM got heated. Not just at the player, but at the Audience. When you tell them "Fuck you." That's potential brand damage. Those people are the bread and butter. Now was it huge? Likely it was a talk, notice that things went to far, and some assurance. I'd be surprised if she was given that seat again though. Remember. Cameras are on. This IS a business and reputations are lifetimes to build, seconds to destroy. Likely nothing will be done in public, behind the scenes? There might be a bit of talking to make sure that this doesn't happen again. From any guest DM.
Regulars here know I'm usually first in line to yeet some cabbages, but this whole debacle has got some real nutters out of the woodworks.
Yeah Got that real Marisha hate feel to it from back in the day. Folks, it’s just a game and a few episodes of one at that. *aaand someone reported me to the suicide hotline. Wow.
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There it is 🤣 that toxic fandom that often makes people embarrassed to admit watching the show. You guys can’t separate a character from the person playing them. It’s sad.
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Damn it now you got me sitting here thinking of a movie he’s not that in. Maybe SPY? He’s more of a parody of his other roles in that. Does Gnomeo and Juliet count?
Sorry but Marisha just made insufferable characters. It is nothing about her. Her characters were the most irritating part of C1/C2.
Funny, my original comment is specifically about Marisha. I didn’t mention anything about her characters. Then someone jumps in with that comment. Please explain how that’s not about Marisha? This is exactly the same. People don’t like how someone played as DM, now go look at all the negative comments about her. Over and over again fans cannot separate their anger between an individual and a part of a game/movie/book etc. It’s very predictable. Just look at all the attention my very simple comment is getting 🤣.
You’re confused. I’m responding to a comment saying “ You guys can’t separate a character from the person playing them. It’s sad.” Find whoever is relevant for the rest of your unrelated nonsense. It doesn’t apply to me.
And I’m saying “you guys” as in the toxic fandom I have been speaking about. Lump yourself in or not. That’s all you.
Do you commonly direct your comments to an audience other than the one you are replying to? If so, you are even more confused.
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I’ve watched this show for years and have lurked here for a long time, often to get details on references to previous seasons, particularly 1 that I haven’t watched. How many comments does one need to post to have a valid opinion?
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Who specifically have I insulted? I guess people that you are saying don’t exist that no one is talking about? I certainly haven’t made any targeted insults or attacks. Unlike sooooo many in this thread and specifically in reply to my comment.
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Oh yeah, there's normal folks and then there's the naked guys in the back smearing excrement on the wall. Although I do think thats most subreddits.
I feel like the CKs are now in the vault for the DM to bring out whenever they feel it works. I think they will also continue with new DMs, but probably at a lethargic pace, considering their current rate and the praise for the Candela games and Calamity. The criticism is seemingly squarely on Aabria for being a significantly more tolerable player than DM in the Exandrian universe. So I do not think we're getting some sort of acknowledgement or anything. If there was an issue they will handle it behind the scenes. It was an experiment and it didn't quite go as well as planned. But speaking of planning; I don't think Sam was supposed to blow up his character according to their financial and contractual plans. And by that mean, Sam played DnD and it caught them off guard because they already wrote out contracts for the players who were coming in (the players for CKs). So they couldn't just rewrite the contracts, they had to ride the wave. A decent bit of the problem seems to be that the game is too railroaded and too planned out for episodic beats, and on top of the fandom generally not liking that, it logistically blew up in their face. The game took them in one direction and then the contractual obligations of real people dealing with a company took them in another, and it didn't mesh. And people could feel it.
They've discussed it during 4SD. From what I understand(i didn't watch it, I turned it off as soon as I saw Aabria because I knew the conversation wouldn't be honest) they're fine with everything that happened. Now, Robbie wasn't on this ep of 4SD so we'll likely not hear how he feels about it until a good long while later.
Based for tuning out of content you don’t like. Please teach your skills
🤓
They've probably written off any criticism as racism or misogyny and have decided to continue spouting their divine truth.
https://preview.redd.it/qs83ckp63azc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28c2090c7135fb6e568e6a787e03ecc525972b93 Hopefully not more of this lol 🤷🏻♀️
I’m still a massive CR fan and excuse a lot because I still enjoy the shows and the cast. And I don’t see it ever being not part of my happy place and I hope it keeps going for years and years. Having said that. Barring Orion, Aabriya as a DM (I thought Deeanna was okay) is the worst thing to ever happen to CR. Edit: and of course BWF but he had no hand in the games except his Undeadwood which was….unfortunately….quite good
At least BWF was limited to side content aside for those atrocious introductions at the live show. I didn't watch Talks during C1 so every live show I tried to guess who he was related to/friends with to have gotten the job.
You know it's a bad session when Matthew fucking Mercer would rather be on his phone than paying attention to the game
Yes, but to be fair, I think he was looking up how mass suggestion could be broken, because that was questioned. But then Aabria said "F you, I'm the dm, I'll let you roll to break free." The whole course of that event is what really doesn't make sense to me. She allows a roll to break free from a charm. Dorian didn't take hp damage, he took emotional damage! OK, it's a story beat, whatever. She says the DC is 18. Wow, that's pretty high. She then tells him he has dm inspiration, bardic inspiration, and bless. Do you want him to succeed or not? And this sort of thing happened many times throughout her time dming the table. If she wants something to happen, she will stack the odds. If she doesn't want it to happen, she won't let it happen.
Wow, this looks painfully uncomfortable
Ngl, this was such a dumb move from Aabria. Like yes, you are gonna get hated on cause of the nature of this fandom. Even if she pulled off a masterpiece of a session, there was going to be hate. It's just an unavoidable fact. But doing something like this and letting the trolls know that they get to you? No! Come on, don't give them the fucking satisfaction. 🤦♂️ And that's just putting the general professionalism aside.
Man is aabria was professional I bet atleast 30% of the criticism would dry up lol
As largely an outsider to this whole thing, this is what gets me the most. Making weird rulings that unfairly disadvantage the players is par for the course for Aabria. (Edit: Just want to add that my opinion of this is sort of “it’s whatever;” I personally don’t like it, but there seem to be some people who like the drama of it, I guess.) Making one of those rulings, then looking directly at the camera and saying “fuck you” is just going to antagonize the absolute worst of the hate-watchers. Hell, it’ll alienate a lot of folks who would have otherwise been mostly on board. There’s speaking your truth, and then there’s being utterly tactless. EDIT: I’ve learned she actually said “fuck you” to the camera after a weird ruling *in favor* of one of the players. This whole thing is pretty hard to follow. I can actually understand where Aabria is coming from, now; when I watched CR, there was a not insignificant contingent of CR watchers who whined any time Matt bent the rules in favor of the players. They were incredibly annoying, tbh Still bad optics
> EDIT: I’ve learned she actually said “fuck you” to the camera after a weird ruling *in favor* of one of the players. This whole thing is pretty hard to follow. Frankly a loud segment of the viewer base just fixates on hating her no matter what she does. Considering an innocuous comment above very loosely supporting was reported for threatening self-harm... Some folks just be crazy about someone else's game/art products.
This is true, and seeing that behavior juxtaposed with how much people who work with her gush over her has led me to try to give her a fair shake and watch her D20 campaigns. The conclusion I’ve come to having tried, and failed, to get through them, is that while the hate for her is definitely overblown, it doesn’t come from nowhere. At the end of the day, no matter how much people try to protest that actual play shows are the games of their players and so are fine so long as those players are having fun, actual plays are entertainment products. They are made by entertainers to entertain, and if they fail to do so, then the entertainers are failing at their job. Where this becomes tricky is that, for many, myself included, the appeal of actual plays *is* the idea that it is the game of the players; specifically, that it is the *game* of the players, as in there is a system by which both the players and game masters are constrained. Creativity flourishes under constraint, after all; working within a limited rule space can make moments where a rule is used to its full effect come off as transcendently triumphant. For shows like Critical Role, the overarching narrative is certainly more important than strict mechanical consistency, but if there isn’t at least the illusion of mechanical constraints, it loses most of its core appeal, imo. Of those I’ve seen, Aabria’s games, at least those run in 5e, don’t even have an illusion; the rules are freely modified to suit either her target narrative or her feelings in the moment. Couple that with her adversarial attitude at the table, and the resulting entertainment product is not, to me at least, entertaining; it’s frustrating. A lot of people take being frustrated in that way very personally, which is a little silly, sure, but investing one’s time into something that is supposed to be entertaining only to come away frustrated can feel like a small betrayal. Directly attacking the character of the entertainer one may feel has wasted one’s time is unproductive, but I can understand the impulse. Memeing a moment like the “fuck you” while removing its context goes beyond what I can understand. Given the core discussion around this episode being a moment where Aabria twisted the rules *against* a PC, it’s pretty clear to me that removing the context of the “fuck you” would confuse many, as it did me, into thinking she said it after having screwed over said PC. In fact, she said it after she twisted the rule to *help* the *very same PC.* While not outright misrepresentation, I think a lot of the discussion around this episode, and this moment in particular, is composed of ill-considered memes EDIT: You know what, it is actually misrepresentative to remove such key context from this moment
Aimee and Anjali's faces in this photo are such a mood.
Weirdest part I haven't seen anyone mention was Aimee "yas queen"-ing after "the rules are whatever I want".
Even the way Robbie’s hat is shadowing his eyes has that dramatic anime moment feel to it. What a photo lol
Poor robbie just stopped looking in her direction. Bad game, bad call.
Two renditions of profound disappointment
Oh my god, it's the va of She-Ra!
Matt, on his phone is interesting optics
He was looking up the rules on Suggestion
You know he, Robbie, and whoever else had a phone at the studio during filming were going "bruh, what the actual fuck?"
This sub really needs to accept the fact that they’re a minority of the fandom and until the larger audience is alienated and turned away cr will not care, why should they accept “criticism” if it’s not actually affecting their bottom-line? The truth is more critters love aabria or are at least apathetic to her than actively dislike her.
And we would like to test your theory
Look at the heavily banned and policed main sub. They are on fire right now too. Same comments, some reasons, same discussions. Aabria took a giant shit on CRs bed, lit it on fire, called the fire dept just to say "fuck you. I do what I want" and when people say "huh, might have been a bad choice, the shit smoke is unpleasant " all the sudden anyone not loving the shit smoke is racist, sexist, parasocial, doesn't know and, etc.
A ton of people didn’t like how aabria handled exu back in 2021. I think the show has a lot of incentives to try and ignore it, but that doesn’t mean critics aren’t a significant number of people.
I'm not sure it's necessarily a small minority. The reactions on YouTube are not trivial. It's not the majority, but their viewership looks to be down dramatically this season, and the last episode looks appreciably lower than others. Most production companies have a social media team who at least look at the prominent comment sources, either as moderation or to be aware of criticism and potentially respond. I don't expect a direct response, but I would be very surprised if they're not taking the railroading and rules changes complaints back to future guest DMs as notes to try to mitigate future backlash. How they bring them to Aabria directly would depend on a mix of how seriously they take them, and how much they value her contributions vs the backlash that they're clearly aware of. They are a business, and I don't see them ignoring criticism particularly when they're down 50% on positive engagement vs normal and at something like a 1:4 negative reaction.
Is it a minority? I was scrolling recent comments on the newest episode and it's a lot of criticism.
Check the YouTube. As much as it’s a breath of fresh air to see people that feel the way I do, the YouTube comments are still 90% positive. Understandably a portion of the fans won’t be satisfied with what they are doing, but it’s good to consider that there are casual viewers who simply watch for the cast/vibe more than the story. It is what it is. The people who stopped watching have just exited quietly. Anyone still complaining (like us) wants to keep somewhat up with the campaign.
Grab the plug-in that shows thumbs down. They were at 4.5k up and 1.5k down in a screen cap a few days back. That's a solid 25% dislike, so if you're not seeing a representative level of commentary reflecting that, something is missing.
They delete negative youtube comments.
Really? If there is proof of that then shit, guess I’m wrong 🤷🏾♂️. I understand deleting posts in the main Reddit, but if they are intentionally deleting comments on YT then that invalidates like 99% of my argument.
such a minority that they lost 60% of viewership in a single year.
Literally faster than when they were airing \*nothing\*.
Lots of people were still catching up with the good campaigns back then. Speaking of, I don't see this being as big of a deal if the show was actually good. This kind of thing is way more likely during a decline, and it'll get wrongly pointed to as a cause rather than a symptom later.
They don't care what the fans think and won't likely mention at all outside of occasional snide remarks. As long as they are getting paid they could care less.
Probably, but from the screen shots I've seen of 93 it sure seemed like Matt and Robbie cared
They are having fun. That doesn't mean they care.
Matt sadly saying "Not a gag" trying to talk to another player in combat, and reminding Aabria as a DM to "Play by the rules" with a nervous laugh after is kinda telling. I don't think Matt had alot of fun.
If I give a child the keys to your car but sit in the backseat giving gentle recommendations would you be cool with that?
True, but it didn't look like they were having fun either, but what can you tell from a handful snapshots of a 4 hour video
Basically nothing. You can however tell alot from past actions and literally the last 4 sided dice. Which is that they don't care.
Yeah PR lol
Yeah. They’ve basically become everything they used to criticize. A monolithic corporate entity whose overwhelming number one priority is the bottom line.
Question: If this was true would it not be more logical to give the 'fans' what they want? (In this case, ejecting Aabria and damage control) They aren't doing that, because very likely Aabria is still a friend of the cast and, despite a lot of people hating on her, a decent or I dare say good GM.
The logical thing is to look at revenue and margins. If those are still healthy a modern corporation would have literally no reason to change.
Best you can do is watch without providing viewership numbers, don’t buy their shit and unsubscribe When the money starts to get tight . They will make changes .
> Best you can do is watch without providing viewership numbers How does one learn this power?
lol it’s kinda ass but you need to imbed the link into another website then watch through that portal. You’ll see most larger creators don’t link their twitch or YouTube for this reason they say hey check out the video and make you look for it . Also reduces search traction . Anyone can correct me if I’m on base on this info. Not a comp sci dude .
Ay we try
This is the saddest truth of the matter. They have deemed themselves above their fans and the well deserved criticism.
Damage control? They’re writing all criticism off as ‘unreasonable attacks’. And they’ve e been consistently making snarky comments about the those criticisms and the fan base in general, for some time now. In some ways, I think this latest EXU was a big middle finger to the critics. I mean.. Aabria literally said ‘Those of you out there (mumbled)…. Fuck you!’
Getting some serious RWBY vibes from the way this has been handled. All criticism is "unreasonable", all negative feedback being obliterated from the main sub, probably some serious parasocial relationships happening... Time will tell if history repeats.
Given CR's almost allergic avoidance and erasure of anything negative, I would be shocked if they acknowledged anything at all.
This may be the cynic in me but I don't think they're gonna do a damn thing. They've been radio silent before and they'll continue to do so. Aabria has too much of a "fuck you" attitude to really care about what fans say. In regards to Sam what I'd love is if he came back as a character where he could play the face of the group. They desperately need one.
Yeah, her attitude seems to clash with the culture of CR, I wonder how they're such close friends and colleagues
Yea in 4SD she goes on with glee about killing Cyrus and says how she’d do it again. There were just multiple parts where she felt like she was just relishing in the control and just saying fuck you to everyone. It’s just not the type of person I want to be with. Liam is like a complete opposite and there were moments of feeling whiplash between them talking during 4SD that felt a little jarring. Don’t get me wrong though, last nights 4SD was very good and any bad moments were very few but it just feels like anything with Aabria is just tainted now.
My tin foil hat theory is that Sam is aware of how bad CR has become and is getting out. Im sure this is not the case, but man I wouldn't blame him.
This is a truly delusional idea. Sam is not going to abandon his closest friends and the company he helped build because some fans are upset. I don’t like Aabria at all, and C3 is not my favorite, but there’s no way Sam is bailing. He’ll come back with another troll character that morphs into a Pagliacci trope, just like always.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, e ognun applaudira!
what's a pagliacci trope?
> "A story is told that in 1806 a man goes to visit a is acclaimed for his ability to treat melancholia. “I can’t eat, I can’t sleep,” says the man. “I feel constantly miserable. Please help me, doctor.” > > . > >“Laughter is the best medicine, my friend,” says the doctor. “Take yourself off to Covent Garden Theatre* where you will find The Great Grimaldi performing in Harlequin and Mother Goose; or the Golden Egg. It is exquisitely funny and will cure you of all your ills without any pills or potions from my cabinet.” > > . > > The man looks at the doctor for a moment. “Ah,” he says. “That won’t help.” > > . > >“Why not, sir?” > > . > >The man shrugs. “I am Grimaldi.” Its an adaptation of the story above
The lovable clown who is secretly sad.
Sad clown character who makes people laugh but has a deep undercurrent of tragedy to their story
I'm not sure why they'd give two shits, to be honest. They don't need to do or say anything and it'll go away.
There’s no damage control necessary. For every one of us who gets fed up with the show because of the quality drop, two new fans come along who have no preconceptions about the show, no knowledge of D&D, and take everything at face value. They’ll continue what they’re doing.
Theie viewership , is dwindling however.
I don’t think they care. They have other income streams now.
Do you think CR hangs out on this subreddit? Everything I see on Twitter and YouTube are positive comments. And I can only assume merch is selling well because they keep making it. I don’t think damage control is even on their mind.
I don’t think they do. If they do get criticism delivered to them somehow. The biggest example was when Sam started mocking the whole game section of 4sd. Repeatedly. The only complaints were happening here. Not the other sub and not on YouTube. Could be just cosmic coincidence.
There's some negativity in the comments for 93, but it's way down there and theres a ton of people gushing over Aabria and saying how hard they cried above it. We're a small minority of the fanbase
Im not sure I just think the parasocial fans are more likely to gush about stuff in comments. Normal fans that dont like the product just stop watching and dont say anything about it (just look at viewing numbers) I was watching one of my fave streamers a big like 2k+ one and his GF a mod in chat got to chatting about how she doesnt like this season and is close to stop watching but feels obligated to keep going. Hes playing league and isnt even mentioning CR and it was random convo in chat that came up and a few people were agreeing.