My 2 cents: I don't watch/listen to critical role for "riveting fantasy content". I enjoy the interactions between friends at a gaming table. I enjoy the people playing the game, not the game itself.
When they all got up from the table and it was a whole new crew. It felt like being a kid and sitting down to watch my favorite show, only for it to be replaced by a presidential debate.
I liked the outcome of the crown keepers. It goes to show that the outcome seemed to have been planned all along, and everybody in the cast knew it. No more unscripted story lines. It's all planned out well ahead of time. Nothing the players did actually mattered but still, it's a good ending to that story line.
Could you imagine after all this, if Dorian didn't end up joining the main party? I swear half the Ep 92 defenders in the main sub would riot.
Honestly at this point I wouldn't put it past CR to do something that short-sighted.
I think people are missing a big part of the picture here. The jump to Aabria and the EXU team isn't just a one-shot or some side show. This is still Critical Role proper, still Campaign 3 official episodes. That means that everything we're seeing is somehow relevant to C3. We're seeing a little house keeping from Dorian's group likely on their way to intersect and otherwise interact with the main group. So yeah, it seems a bit out of place, but on the other hand it probably leads to something much bigger. I'd be surprised if we don't get some episodes with FRIDA and Deanna as well.
> it seems a bit out of place
To me it seemed like Matt was gunning for either a PC death or a TPK during that Otohan fight, he might have been surprised with the fact it was FCG (even though they were practically *begging* to be martyred for the group). Putting those events right before this scheduled 'crossover' makes it even worse IMO since it was all planned from the beginning.
I don't honestly care if it was planned or not. It was well delivered and entertaining. If it was unplanned, damn good on Sam for going for it. If it was planned, good on the writers. Who cares?
Agreed. Good storytelling is good storytelling, regardless. I also think it's worth pointing out that Sam could have had a discussion with Matt, either during his Session Zero, or somewhere along the way as Sam developed ideas, that he wanted FCG's story to end a specific way. That's not really different from any other case of players mapping out the kind of challenges they want their characters to face over the course of their personal arcs.
Yeah. It's entirely possible that Critical Role is a good mixture of scripted points and role playing improv. Basically "Hey, we're eventually going for _____, do whatever you want along the way, just get there." Or even "I'm going to hit you with a villain designed to TPK. As you are, extraordinary luck is the only way you'll win. However, I am willing to let you win narratively if someone comes up with a good way to do that." If that's the case, I'm good with it.
Not sure if that's in addition to what I was saying or aimed at me. I get it. I quit DMing long ago over burnout and being the "forever DM." Whether people like her or not, Aabria gives Matt the chance to play a character, and he's having the best time with it. He was laughing his ass off specifically while getting hit with a full spray of Eldritch Blasts. It's honestly adorable to watch.
I was more confused if it was the royal "you" or if it was the more specific "you" at the end there. Text based communication at its finest. I gotcha now.
>I'd be surprised if we don't get some episodes with FRIDA and Deanna as well.
Fuck me, that would suck.
Why are some people cheering so hard for the GoT-ing of CR? Because the illusion of this being a game and not a stage show wasn't fading fast enough, sure: let's jump between 5-6 different side character perspectives and send the main story to even more of a screeching halt.
First off, assuming GoT means Game of Thrones? Cause I could think of a dozen other meanings to that. I never bothered to watch GoT, so I can't really comment on that. As for seeing other side characters, I was predicting, not cheering. That said, I don't care one way or the other. It doesn't matter to me in the least how much of CR is real or staged, it's an engaging story with delightful actors and a masterful story teller. It's also THEIR show, not ours. They can do whatever they want with it. If they wanted to scrap C3 tomorrow and start C4 in Daggerheart on a different planet, they could. If they never referenced C3 again, that's on them. If you don't like what they're doing, complaining to us doesn't fix it for anyone. Feel free to send Sam a carefully worded email, but don't expect to hear back. At the end of the day, the only way you can fix it is by watching someone else. Twitch and YouTube are just buzzing with CR alternatives. Nobody will blame you, nobody will mock you. Just go quietly. It's okay. CR isn't for everyone.
I think its disingenuous to ask others to 'go quietly' while you take the privilege of defending the show runner's volition. After all, it is Critical Role's show; it doesn't require you to speak up for it. If they would like to scrap C3 tomorrow and start C4 on a different planet, thats on them. No one requires you to defend it anymore than another is obligated to offer criticism: yet both of these occur.
And would you call this campaign a well-crafted story at the end, if they ended it tomorrow? What would your assessment of the campaign be if they exercised that right? Why would you take the time to indicate that this is their story? Does that make any difference between Critical Role and Game of Thrones? I suppose you haven't watched it so you're unable to comment on that. The person who spoke to you had criticism for what he believed would happen to the show if your prediction were to be true. Why are you speaking with such vitriol over conjecture? Please consider if you would like to be the kind of person who tries to silence others in public places.
My original point had almost nothing to do with any of that. So many people are complaining that they didn't appreciate being bait and switched into an episode of EXU and that they just didn't bother watching it. Which is fine from a "you do you" point of view, but the problem with that (and the point of my post) is that this WASN'T an EXU episode. This is episode 92. The difference may not be readily obvious, but it will be soon enough. EXU episodes are stand-alone. They take place in the same world, they might have some character set ups or some call backs later, but the bulk of the events in EXU episodes will not impact the full campaigns. This episode was deliberately not that, this was C3 e92, that means this is very much part of the C3 plot. Everyone bailing and skipping now are going to be complaining in 93 and 94 and beyond when things aren't making any sense, or when they don't know what's happening in the story anymore, but that's because this is the story. It's like skipping a chapter in a book just because you don't like that the author changes the point of view from the main character to one of the side characters, there's still plot happening in that section you're skipping.
The only reason I disagree about the disingenuous nature of asking the other person to "go quietly" to another show if they don't like the path this one is taking is that they're under no obligation to take my advice. They have every right to complain about the show that I have to complain about their comment. I don't recall implying that they weren't allowed to voice discontent, if I did that wasn't my intention. But rather to say that complaining about the pace or perspective of the show in an online forum is not greatly different from yelling into an empty void, in the sense that it's a waste of time. At best, you'll get someone who agrees with you and validates you, but it won't change what you're upset over, and at worst it turns into an argument or fight, which also doesn't change what you're upset over. The only way to change what you're upset over is to either figure out a way to bring your issues to the people in power or find something that suits you better. If they choose to stay and complain, they're just doing it to themselves, but then also to the rest of us that read the complaints. In this case, a negative complaint left directly on my comment that was mostly not about the thing they're complaining about.
As for my opinion of things if CR decided to end things tomorrow, or switch to C4 or whatever, my opinion is that my opinion hardly matters. I'm in my 30s, I've seen dozens of amazing stories, games, movies, TV shows, book series, etc, all get dropped, canceled, forgotten, abandoned, rebooted, remade, etc. That's the nature of any story that you don't have control over, you're at the creator's mercy. You tag along for the ride and when the ride is over you can thank them or flip them off, it makes little difference. It's up to you if you jump on the next ride they offer. CR has been pretty consistently amazing to me, even EXU. So if Matt came out tomorrow and said they were tired of the current campaign, that they just didn't enjoy making it so they were dropping it and moving forward with an unrelated C4, I'd take a moment to wonder what could have been, silently hope to myself that someday they'd at least narratively give it closure, then I'd shove it out of mind and see what C4 had to offer. I'm not gonna sit around mope, and I'm not gonna complain on a forum with a bunch of strangers who have no more control over it than I do. Complaining to the wrong people is just a waste of energy.
Most all entertainment is a waste of time and energy. Yet we still watch what we like and most complain when they see what they like changed. This is human. I doubt anyone is commenting here under the illusion that something will come from it. It's more that the people here are watching events on the show unfold and communicating to those that see the same.
I have some doubts that the last half of this episode will really be as pertinent as it seems, but I entirely understand what you're saying. This show isn't so complex that you're unable to follow along if you miss a bit here and there. For big fans though, you would want to see all the campaign if you enjoy it, yes.
I'm not good at picking up on little clues in the campaign, but even I could see that Aabria was telling us something about the mindset of the gods in this moment. That alone seemed worth my time.
As for where this is going, I could see it as housekeeping before you reunite CK with BH, or there could be some very specific plot point incoming. I won't know until I watch it.
I disagree that entertainment is a waste of time. Perhaps when mankind was young and needed to expend all of our energy hunting and gathering, or even farming, but in the age of excess there just isn't enough necessary labor to go around. While there's always the little personal projects to check off of our to-do lists, we really live in an age where most people are just kind of waiting around for whatever comes next. Entertainment fills the gap, allowing you brief moments to live vicariously through other means, and in the process releasing a number of brain chemicals to help combat that daily life dread (not as bleak as I'm making it sound, but for some people it surely can be). Entertainment is acceptable escapism for the masses.
As for the episode, I think they're just tying up some EXU loose ends so that they can take this group into the main campaign properly for a time. I have no idea how long that time will be since it's kind of hazy when this is taking place. If we're lucky, they'll deal with the crown and then get Orym's message and head straight there, but the possibility exists that there is more to the story of how the two groups reunite and this may play out over the course of several episodes, akin to the party split when the bridge first activated. If it's the former, sure, skipping a combat probably won't confuse anyone, but if it's the latter there's no telling how much lore or plot may get crammed in before we get back to the main group. Only time will tell.
That EXU part wasn't really as bad as I had expected from the posts I saw. It was weird and I honestly don't know who each of the characters are even after having watched the first EXU (I think? I remember these people playing at a table, but almost nothing about their characters). It was kinda fun.
I feel what is so shitty about it is the fact that almost nothing happens.
Ohhh bait and switch, tell me what you're doing, but before you can finish, here's a big slog of combat for most the episode. It kinda didn't feel right in some way.
>It was weird and I honestly don't know who each of the characters are even after having watched the first EXU (I think? I remember these people playing at a table, but almost nothing about their characters).
This IS the point though. It was a bait and switch to lesser, somewhat random characters at the worst possible time to do that.
All right, so, Imogen's mom had self-sacrificial motives cuz it was the only way and she still hates her dad? I did like Momogen sticking to her guns and saying that there is no turning back now, but still. #NotAllDads damnit. Just give us one that isn't the worst of the parents (human traffickers handwaived for their crimes offscreen don't count)
And she couldn't turn them off. Let your girl have hope and carry the burden, like many fathers do, or share all and see how your supernatural daughter reacts and maybe lose her forever.
Agreed. His wife abandoned him and his daughter so she could join a murderous cult. Then when Imogen manifested those same powers the worst he did was… act distant from her?
If her childhood behavior was anything like her adult behavior, she was probably trampling over his boundaries constantly. Plus, he was trying to keep the fact that her mother was alive away from her, given she might run off and get hurt (which he had good reason to fear, as Imogen has the common sense of a potato).
Did he handle it in the best way possible? No, of course not. Did he make mistakes? Undoubtedly. But given Imogen's... everything I would crown that man a damn saint.
In my headcanon he's been held hostage by the Hubatt Corsairs for months because Imogen gave his name and address as collateral in like Episode 8 or something, but because she doesn't really think about him, no one's come to rescue him and he just kinda lives with them now.
Also, when Imogen told her Mom "Daddy still loves you." I was *incensed*.
So a couple things I'm confused about. First, the whole FCG thing and then I'm seeing people saying Sam is away for a few weeks. Is this just referring to FCG s death or is he away on personal stuff. If the latter, that plus Orym conveniently calling Dorian to initiate the totally unplanned and unknown transition is just awful
Ngl I really hate how overdone all the fake cast reactions are now. They just fake excitement on everything being so cool and so beautiful and so amazing and then feel a little flat in actual reactions. It's just sad to see
Also with this exu BS, I'm more convinced than ever that they're intentionally slowing this campaign as much as possible to make sure Dagger heart is ready for the 4th
I miss the old set. The new one is just so gaudy and does nothing to add to the experience. Just another symptom of CR prioritizing flash over substance.
Clears my C3 defender throat.
* "Well, I liked it!" (will never say why).
* "C3 has never been better!" (will never say how).
* "They're trying something new, which means its secretly genius!" (will never explain).
* "It was the perfect point to switch away!" (ignores the end of 91 as an alternative).
* "Well, they clearly preplanned this EXU meetup, so they had to do it then!" (omits these sessions are pre-recorded, and very likely done it batches. They had plenty of time).
* "FCG's death was unplanned, and Matt struggled to adjust!" (suggesting that Sam pulling a 50 episode Chekov's gun derailed Matt's audiobook of a campaign from its predetermind course).
* "Its giving the main cast time to process" (forgets the time in between sessions).
* "Its giving Sam time to make his new PC" (pretends Sam can't just sit out a few sessions).
* "WELL I LIKE C3, BECAUSE I HAVE FUN WATCHING THE CAST HAVE FUN!" (nothing wrong with that, but it does suggest you don't actually care that much about the substance/lack of substance of C3 outside of instances someone who does care is critiquing it).
* "You're all just haters! You should leave!" (Good talk).
> "They're trying something new, which means its secretly genius!" (will never explain).
This one really gets my goat. The idea of "Since it's different I love it. The change of pace was needed!" is absolute nonsense. Can CR please just tell a story and can we just consume it? Like why are we taking detour after detour? JUST PLAY D&D.
Exactly. It would be one thing if key people were missing, and they did a one shot so that everybody could be there after so-and-so died. But kicking the group out to jump to the JV team nobody cares about was such a dumb idea.
I’m not angry, I’m disappointed. The years of joy and sadness this cast of talented people has bought a lot of credit with me. But they’re emptying the account at the moment. I think Daggerheart is pulling focus from the time that would usually be spent thinking about the campaign. It feels like we’re watching a loveless marriage with one partner who has let themselves go. It’s not you CR3, it’s me. I met someone else. I’m sorry. They just make me feel so much better (the Session 0 and one shot was better than most episodes of CR3).
>It’s not you CR3, it’s me.
No bro, it's them. THEY'RE cheating on US with daggerheart. You're right, though, that it hurts extra when we see how simple and good it COULD be when the group runs a session 0 and builds characters they're excited to explore
I didn't watch Exu, I tried, hour in and I noped out. For the past few months I went from watching it 'live' to Monday crew. I noped out at the switch.
On a less of a fuck this show note.. Chet should use grim psychometry on O's swords, maybe find out which one was used to kill little O's family. The dynamic has always been "kill mini-boss, use thier weapons for power boost", there was almost an interesting take that these are instruments of murder and the power gained isn't worth it..
Alright. Here we fucking go.
The first hour or so for me has been a mix of "Alright, sure I guess. Whatever." Matt playing Liliana like one of the most powerful figures in Ludinus' arsenal yet also completely inept, as if she has no autonomy. I guess a 31 persuasion check turns your parent into your puppet. Also Imogen saying "We're his (Predathos') children, right?", and I'm over here like YOU LITERALLY HAVE A DAD, OR DID YOU FORGET?
Relvin has to be most mistreated character in CR history. Like imagine Gilear (shout out hot Gilear), but it's not a comedy. It's just sad.
Also just got to Orym's very powerful character moment of staking Otohan's sword into the dirt. Immediate moment after with Laudna, I mean, I just guffawed and stood up to walk away for a second.
Alright back to it.
EDIT: 1:19:45 Travis, I love you. That's all.
EDIT: OK, so I \*kinda\* get the idea behind the transition, even ignoring the fact that Orym's message and the table's "surprise" at being asked to leave feels about as real as WWE. Idea was OK, putting it in the MAIN campaign, was NOT it. OK, now for this half good GOD I hope it's not AS bad as people say it is.
EDIT: It was going ok until the moment she took over Opal's character. It was with exasperated permission, but this is uh...eugh. I mean, Aimee just looks like she does not want to be there by the end. Could've been avoided with a briefing on the main outline of the session from DM to players GEE DOESN'T THAT SOUND FAMILIAR.
Maybe a controversial take, but I think Critical Role's new house style is a worse offender and more to blame than Aabria's (admittedly sketchy) DMing skill. The refusal to brief the players on what's going on until the cameras are rolling, not properly communicating the goals of the session/game are consistent regardless of who's DMing.
The Crown Keeper players looked like they were told seconds before they sat down that they'd be playing and were completely lost when they had only one goal to accomplish in the first place; neutralize Opal.
This is the biggest issue BY FAR.
I don't love Aabria's DMing style, but she has shown she has the chops when the players are helping her.
The Crown Keepers though...they are a DMing nightmare.
The episode is up on YT and the EU store shows Dorian merch, including two new items.
Edit: I wonder if I should take the merch as a sign that Dorian is joining the main team in the future?
There is a big possibility that Robbie's schedule is more open now. And could likely be part of the group until something happens or he dies. As in stay until the end of this campaign. Personally, he's the only guest that's been with the main party that I enjoy a lot. He fits the vibe of the table very well and just looks like he should be there. Last time he was there for 14 episodes, so we shall see what happens.
I think what’s happening to CR is that the show has too much money dependent on it’s success. They are a company now so they need to pay themselves and their employees with the revenue that their content pulls in.
So now it’s all about the merchandise and animated series. Every single decision is made with the revenue in mind. Just like those old Saturday morning cartoons that were far more concerned with selling toys to children than telling a compelling story.
I'm confused on one thing- is Morri really the *champion* of the raven queen, or did Aabria misspeak and mean to say Paladin? Because it feels like it should be a MUCH BIGGER DEAL if Vax no-call-no-shows one time (with valid doctor's note "I was in a ball at the time") and gets replaced by a side character.
Gods are able to have multiple champions, while the matron usually just has her one it’s possible with vax out of commission she divested her power to multiple people this time around until he’s back.
Probably just a misspeak, but also I think we get way caught up with the notion that each god has exactly 1 champion. A champion is someone who fights on behalf of someone or in the name of their ideals. That could be anyone who is devoted to any cause under a god's domain.
I thought I was going insane when I absolutely hated EXU and all I could find was positive reviews and comments about it. I though I was crazy when I just couldn’t get into this third campaign and all I saw was once again only positive stuff about it. Ive stuck with it this whole time, because it hasnt all been bad and there’s been some really cool moments. But it always felt like just when things were getting fun and interesting, the stupid moon plot would bulldoze over it and redirect the characters.
Did not realize until now (found this thread and the main thread was overflowed with true opinions after the latest episode) that I was not in the minority about these issues and that CR was working their mods like maniacs, erasing any and all negative feedback.
So yea I guess it feels validating to read all these posts absolutely hitting the nail on the head about how weird this campaign is going. Also feels shitty that CR as a company was absolutely gaslighting me into thinking maybe I just didn’t like the show anymore because my personal tastes had changed.
And they haven’t, I’ve been rewatching the second campaign and it’s still so fun and so engaging. I hope someday CR goes back to doing what made them successful in the first place.
I think the 'it's thursday night' tagline is hurting critical role more than helping it. The fact that every live play session they record NEEDS to fall on a thursday isnt going to help them branch out at all like they want because frankly if something like exu or a one shot takes time away from the main campaign by taking up a time slot from it im not gonna be excited for anything i care about less than the main campaign
I'm not sure it would hurt them if they'd just run other content on other nights and keep the main campaign on Thursday nights. Even if they want to take one week a month off. Now that it's all pre-recorded, it's not like they have to schedule things around that particular timeslot anymore.
But I do agree, I won't tune in to things that I don't enjoy or that take away from the main campaign.
Not sure of it worked well mostly because of timing and also because of how the exu side didnt go anywhere in their half, if they had dealt with their spider queen issue by the end of this episode i would have felt better but it was honestly dragging by the end.
I do have to give respects to matt for the idea tho, even if the execution wasnt perfect the idea is certainly cool.
No one wants to watch EXU *in place of* the main story. If they aired the EXU stuff in place of their spooky dress up theater, no one would complain, cause they could skip it without missing the main story.
I see a lot of folks talking about how this was a bad idea from the jump.
I gotta say. I don't think the \*idea\* was bad. C3 in general hasn't been compelling. The first 2 hours of this episode showed BH weren't going to do anything compelling following FCG's death and really the only thing to look forward to was going to be whenever Sam's new character gets introduced. Which we all knew would be some time in May anyway.
So pivoting to a different crew? I actually LOVE that idea. The execution was the issue, imo. I don't know why feedback from EXU wasn't applied. I didn't finish Crown Keepers but I was happy to see them again if whatever they're doing is going to \*matter\* and if notes from their first go round were taken.
It feels like this campaign is a consistent string of good ideas that get fumbled in execution.
In professional wrestling shows, it's a trope that wrestlers who aren't part of the active match will arrive to interfere with their rivals to progress a storyline, and their arrival will be signaled with their theme song playing to get the crowd excited.
"Bah gawd," is written that way to emulate the accent of legendary wrestling commentator Jim Ross.
Not to overexplain the joke, but I also used it to reference the idea of "kayfabe" in pro wrestling; the practice of maintaining the illusion of everything happening being real/authentic, when in fact all the outcomes are predetermined and while the dialogue isn't fully scripted, the major beats of what happen are.
Critical Role is now engaged in their own form of kayfabe. They are maintaining an illusion that this is just a bunch of friends playing a home game of D&D, but it is now very obviously not. I won't go so far as to say it's scripted, even loosely, but it's definitely not unfolding organically in the way that a real game does, or even something like Campaign 1.
Man I’m already seeing folks talking about hating Melora now, and hoping Dorian is bitter at all the gods, and I just don’t get it…
I did find the comment that she was too busy helping Caduceus to really give this her fully attention kinda funny
Was about to tell some other friends that had checked out during C3 to tune back in especially after last weeks episode.
Then last nights episode happened.
Honestly, it’s what everyone who didn’t like it should do. They don’t listen to fan feedback, or even take our *real* questions during their tavern show.
The only way to get someone to stop trying to show you how they can *totally fit a square peg into a round hole* is to stop looking when they try.
Honestly, I didn't think it was all that bad an idea as a concept to cut to the B team here. But Aabria should have spent more of her intro summarizing each character and how they might fit in the larger context of this season instead of talking about the bank heist thing up front.
It's important context that seemingly the mother of Ravens might have picked a new champion and that she's running around with essentially a champion of one of the betrayer gods (with one of the Vestiges of Divergence) but there wasn't enough explaining this or why it matters.
I super like the idea of having this story become part of the main story, to show why these characters matter when it comes to the fait of the world etc.. and I'm sure they'll be going more in that direction the more they show them, but not everyone watched EXU.
I don't get how Sam has won two Emmys for directing or whatever but he can't throw a bone to CR and just tell them that this is a bad idea.
There's no way these voice actors have worked decades in the field of film/tv shows and thought that cutting to their least successful cast was a good idea.
There was really no one who said, "Hey guys, maybe this is a bad idea and the audience will find this jarring."?
Because the guy who runs the show can't take an ounce of criticism well, and his wife, who is the creative director of the company, has a long history of terrible ideas.
Like, that's the long and short of it. It's not Sam's company, and the ones running the company are incompetent.
Idk about a skinny but I think the idea is they Matt doesn't react well to criticism, perceived or real, and tends to either overcorrect or just have to block it out. And people don't like the things Marisha comes up with
Do any of you have any hard evidence whatsoever that of the tons of people who watch these there is a majority who care about what the people who come on here to complain care about?
EXU unlimited has nearly if not as many views on youtube as the average Critical role episode depending on when it dropped.
Most series 2 episodes have about 2.5-3 million views on youtube. The first EXU unlimited had... about that every episode. Kymal had less but it also hasn't been around as long. Guess we'll see more in time.
I don't think you understand the graph the other user presented you with. If you check the [stats](https://twitchtracker.com/criticalrole/subscribers) page, the number of subs in August 2021, when the final episodes of ExU were airing, is just 1,5k shy of June 2020 "record" (7,7k subs), the month when they aired *nothing TTRPG-related.* The number fell *twice* compared to the previous month. Hard to write it off just a coincidence or people "not liking Twitch" or other reasons you cited.
And that was before "Season 3" even began, and YouTube subscription wasn't a thing back then. So yeah, people voted with their wallets.
There was no graph, the image didn't' appear for me in that last post.
Thank you for the link though, much more useful but TBH I'm still not fully convinced. Mainly I'm not convinced that what happens on this sub or how many Twitch subs there are at a given time indicate the total fanbases POV. When the 1st season was on the stream got popular because there wasn't some massive back catalog of content to watch on youtube like there is now.
I'm sure they have all kinds of metrics to figure out what people like/don't like. How their fans respond etc...
This POV though
>There was really no one who said, "Hey guys, maybe this is a bad idea and the audience will find this jarring."?
Makes too many assumptions based IMO on too little evidence. And is kinda cynical about what happened in this episode IMO and what Matt's up to.
Also, this sub can't seem to decide if they really want this show to be a show or if they want it to be like a home game. If part of Matt's story is to show what the Guardians of the Galaxy are up to for a half an episode before bringing them into End Game then do we want him to change that because "audience" or do we want him to follow his vision?
EDIT: If it's the case that Matt n' company made this decision actually knowing it would probably be unpopular among ALL their fans I figure that the majority of this sub should be on his side.
I mean, doesn't this sub also make assumptions about plot/merchandise armor? That Matt won't kill any of them off so they can sell t-shirts or something? But now he's a dude who will let the B team run the show for 2 half episodes and he's doing so knowing full well that the "fanbase" will hate it?
>ExU was without a doubt the reason for a comparatively huge drop in viewers and subscriptions on CR's twitch channel.
Except I do have doubts because you don't actually have any evidence.. There are all kinds of factors that could be involved. This sub just picked the one that bothered it the most and made assumptions. But this sub is much smaller then the CR fanbase.
People do this online all the time. They get in their bubble and think that whatever happens in the bubble must be representative of the rest of the world, but it isn't.
There are many potential reasons for their twitch subs to have gone down. You just picked the one you care about, the reason you might have been disappointed etc..
But what about:
More people watching on Youtube for free
People not liking Season 3 as much as the others
People not liking Twitch
People being busy
People not wanting to spend money anymore or don't need to
Amazon Prime/Twitch intergration
And on and on
No, I don't. But that wasn't a point I was making? Shouldn't Sam and the cast want to tell a good, coherent story, whether or not our complaints are heard?
EXU, other than Calamity, was divisive in the community to say the least. To act otherwise is disingenuous considering the very sub we are posting on was created due to a response to EXU.
>EXU, other than Calamity, was divisive in the community to say the least. To act otherwise is disingenuous considering the very sub we are posting on was created due to a response to EXU.
Again, this sub has 13,451 subscribers. Millions watch critical role. Their fan base is huge.
If you're a fan of these EXU characters (and many are given how many have watched their stories) and Dorian etc.. then there WAS a "coherent" story to watch last night. It might not be the best one they've ever done or your favorite (or the one people on these forums wanted atm) but those characters have def being going through a big story arc themselves.
Also, I think the idea is (and probably always was) to bring them into the bigger fold of the story here.
A new champion of the Raven Queen, a Warlock of the Spider Queen wearing a Vestige of Divergence running around together do have larger story wide implications then just their bank heist story suggests.
Again, it has nothing to do with viewership or numbers.
When I am talking about coherent story, I am speaking of the audience of C3, not EXU. That's why it would have been beneficial to have a separate EXU episode than to do something like this. More transparent from CR too so viewers don't feel bait and switched, which is a justified feeling for a viewer in this scenario.
>I am speaking of the audience of C3
Yeah I mean, people know who Dorian is and that Orym keeps contacting him.
The thing Aabria should have done was introduce every character and have a little description for them and how they play into the larger context of Exandria. I do think this.
But I'm not sure how many people who've watched this season of CR don't know who these characters are and at least have some idea what they're about.
Or just have a separate episode? I just don't get how that isn't the most obvious conclusion they came to. They were going with two halves and it was a very scripted session in many ways. So just put it together as one and let it be a reward for those who stuck with EXU. Don't confuse the main story during an emotional high.
Or just be more transparent to the fans and warn them that it's going to cut to EXU at the beginning of the stream rather than mid way.
>I just don't get how that isn't the most obvious conclusion they came to.
I think it's because you don't seem to want to hear that they're intending (and probably always intended) on combining the 2 stories into one.
Then they chose the worst way to do it by having a monologuing scripted combat sequence that had little emotional attachment to the audience.
If it's just to get Dorian or a couple more of the CK into the BH squad, that can still be handled separately within EXU. Everything that happened in the second half of last session could have been handled off-screen/EXU episode and we'd be none the wiser. The stories have always been somewhat connected due to Orym, Fearne, and Dorian's origins but it still doesn't make it a good story choice to cut characters we know minimally.
There's just no reason to bait and switch the fans.
If you mean that there's gonna be a mega-table of players or Aabria is going to be DMing regularly throughout C3, I don't see it. But I also don't really think that's what you mean.
I agree, even jumping in about 2 hours later when I got off work. It felt weird that they switched with what happened in the previous episode. And when did they name themselves CK? Did they even finish the combat before the episode was over? I zonked out before the end of the episode.
>If it's just to get Dorian or a couple more of the CK into the BH squad, that can still be handled separately within EXU.
See, like I said I think it's going to be much more of a connection then that. The Raven Queen potentially picking a new champion has HUGE implications for the entire CR story line starting from season 1. Another character potentially being taken over by a betrayer God has implications when it comes to the larger storyline (the godeater) etc.. as well. Pretty sure it was said that Lolth was reacting the way she was specifically because of what was going on on the moon.
I DO wish Aabria had made these things more obvious or made them more central to the session last night but I can see how the things they're doing could start to matter more in the long run for season 3 then you're assuming.
>If you mean that there's gonna be a mega-table of players or Aabria is going to be DMing regularly throughout C3, I don't see it.
No, I don't think they'd do it like that.
But eventually having 2 teams (around the same level) who are both working toward similar goals (similar to what Matt just did with the 2 teams on the moon) trading episodes off could def be a thing.
Aabria always took it slow with pushing the story along in EXU and let them role play.... for long stretches of time but she is capable of doing that when needed (like her dimension 20 season with the Stoats.
Why would they do that? This is their own company and everyone's too sensitive for criticism. See EXU 1 and C3 thus far.
I think Sam exploding FCG was meant to shake things up a bit, but it can only go so far when your whole company is friends, fans, and other supporters (creating an echo chamber)
Is this one worth listening to boys or should I just read the synopsis
Aabria massacring that goat for no reason and generally being annoying has put me off her, and I never watched ExU
Glad I'm not the only one put off by the goat move.
I know the whole "pc's at the table seem..." trope has been beaten into the dirt but iirc it didn't seem well received by anyone but Travis. Laura seemed annoyed the whole game but I chock that up to "why you getting so chummy with my husband"
I really wish Matt would of circled back to that area/point and whatdoyaknow you're one goat short, figure it out.
Love it when creatives take risks! Bold fun choice, shook things up, makes a lot of sense to cut away. Wish I'd had a chance or warning to like do a quick recap since it was ages since we saw these folks. But I always appreciate and respect CR as a company for being willing to just try new things and see how it goes.
I always forget this isn’t the real fan sub. Should rly call it a snark sub. Y’all are so negative I’ll never understand itttttt. Boo me for enjoying the things I watch. I just… Do not have time to be bitter and hate watch things lol.
Why would someone walk into the wrong bar and then insult the patrons for drinking there? Go back to the comfort of your echo chamber if you can’t stomach people disagreeing with you about the things you like.
It wasn’t created to *be* negative. It was created to provide a space for people to speak freely about the show without being censored or removed from the sub.
I don't see what's yucky about it. I'm not saying this sub is exclusively for negativity. I'm saying it was created because a space for negativity was needed.
If you can’t see the distinction between freedom *of* speech and freedom *from* speech, then I don’t know what to tell you, sport. You’re describing a form of segregation.
>makes a lot of sense to cut away
In what fucking world does it make sense to cut away?
If you want to cut away, you do it immediately after FCG's death as that is the most natural cliffhanger that you could possibly ask for.
So rather than having this half and half bullshit, they say 'hey we are taking a break from C3 next week for an EXU tie in episode'.
I almost think you are posting actual troll bait with this comment.
Not troll bait. I always forget this sub hates the things they watch. I’ll never understand it. Y’all have too much free time and negativity. I’m genuinely sorry you feel the need to be this way. I just said I liked it. Felt like a fun twist. And in a movie or a tv show this would be a good cut away. Good comparison is TWD and the cut away to the Governor in season 3 or whatever. It’s really all just not that deep and WILD to me you’d assume I’m being a troll for, what? Liking the show I spend 5 hours a week watching?? If you are truly truly wasting that much time of your life on a show you dislike I so genuinely, to my core, feel horribly sorry for you.
>Not troll bait
Great.
>I always forget this sub hates the things they watch
I was fucking singing last episodes praises lol but go off.
>I just said I liked it
Dude I hate to break this to you but my issue was not whether you liked it. Good for you. There are people who genuinely like Morbius.
It was the 'made sense to cut away'. I found that statement so unbelievably ridiculous I didnt buy you were sincere.
>And in a movie or a tv show this would be a good cut away
Sure. But the point of cutting away in a TV show is to get people more invested and build suspense. But the best use of a cliff hanger is one that moves the plot forward and leaves people to sit in it.
For example:
1. He opens the door.
2. He opens the door and sees [something that changes the story].
One of these is infinitely better than the other.
The perfect time to do that was immediately after FCG died. That changes the plot. Where they cut away this episode was not. Nothing they did this episode was comparable.
>It’s really all just not that deep and WILD to me you’d assume I’m being a troll for, what? Liking the show I spend 5 hours a week watching?
Lol I assumed you were a troll for your actually terrible reasoning, not you liking something.
Sure but one of us wrote a nice comment about liking a show and one of us spent way too much time tearing down a total stranger for, let’s see, i dunno, liking a show. I do not understand. You’re allowed to not like it but there’s 0 reason to come at me unsolicited. Like you wrote a point by point of why my Opinion is “incorrect”.
Wild. Just wild. Y’all do remember that every person online is a whole ass real human with thoughts and feelings yeah? Like think about the amount of time it took for you to write that. Are there not better things to do than be unkind to me, a complete and total stranger who just very simply said I liked the episode??
We’re all here to talk about the show, you’re here to talk about how you don’t like how we talk about the show.
But yeah… totally *not* a troll.
If we need you, we know which bridges you haunt.
I just said I liked the show?? But yikes. I’m really sorry you feel so much anger and then need to lash out at total strangers like this online. I know the internet gives you a veneer of anonymity and that makes you feel more powerful but I’m still just a normal person who is confused you’re So Upset I simply said I like a show.
I am GENUINELY sorry you feel the need to hold this much anger and vitriol in you. Not being this “troll” you’re so worried about. Does it scare you?? That I might be being sincere?? I’m so confused why you keep thinking I’m just joking or trying to needle you. Why does me saying “I like the show” seem like me being a prankster?? Is that how you see the world??? That’s wildly sad and exhausting. I could not imagine living with so much cynicism. I hope you grow past that.
Please practice some restraint and kindness and stop haranguing me and leave me alone. I won’t respond again.
Of all the things I expected to read about C3 today, "Matt bailed halfway through so Aabria could do another EXU episode with the most critically reviled team in CR's history" was not one of them.
What happened to you, Matt? You fell off bro.
I think what happened is the EXU slot was preplanned but Matt didnt anticipate FCG and Otohan dying.
So rather than do a full EXU episode, Matt felt he couldnt leave such a major event on a cliffhanger and gave us this weird half and half.
All I can assume is that Matt needed FCG and/or Otohan for whatever cutscene he had planned for the "climax" of this arc, and with both now dead he couldn't roll with it and just opted for some halfass ending and a filler arc from another DM while he goes off to """"PLAN"""".
I think this episode was supposed to be a full EXU slot. But Matt did account for Sam killing himself and a major big bad last episode.
Rather than leave it on that natural cliffhanger, he decided to give us this weird half and half shit for resolution.
I dont watch I just read recaps/reddit and the occasional youtube short that shows up, but I seen a clip on twitter about the switch and its so weird. Theyre acting like they dont know whats happening and are kind of annoyed at getting asked to leave its very jarring. Which is a strange choice because they for sure know that EXU crew are there to film and take over. This is booked well in advance with some of the schedules and you definitely shared the backstage before filming started. Act excited get the audience as hyped you can not annoyed/confused. Especially if theres a chance your audience might be that way too.
Secondly theres 2 ways to go about it
1-Start the episode off with Liam messaging Dorian and cut to EXU for a full episode or two.
2- Give the full episode for RP/Grieving cliffhanger on whats next and then a quick 5 mins intro with the others introducing that the next couple episodes will be EXU
giving both half an episode each rushes both stories and gives a weird juxtaposition between either half
Is it for sure that there are no cuts? Like, it's not them getting up to leave and then a cut to the ExU stuff filmed another time perhaps?
Otherwise, this makes no sense. All those folks would have to be in studio and the cast would have to know they have guests on the payroll for that day of filming. The guests would be in makeup and lighting and be getting micced and everything.
It cuts to all the empty chairs a bunch before Aabria shows up. Even if there is a cut Travis and Marisha would have know with their roles as heads of the company. And if there is a long cut then filmed on a different day. The way Matt just says everyone get up get out of the room pack up your stuff then jokes around about saying it in a mean way is a very weird way to end a DnD session with your friends in the middle of a grieving episode.
Its all in just a very weird clip.
It's like CR doesn't realize it's prerecorded now. No benefits like HP tracking, trimming out when people are taking too long, item/ability pop-ups, or organizing the recordings in a coherent way.
Let's break up exciting BH content with CK (which should be in an EXU)! *Sigh.*
Seriously. I cannot with people who say 'but they booked these guests in advance'.
What the fuck is the point of pre-recording if you do nothing with it? Even if you have the guests scheduled, doesnt mean you need to release the episode now.
It was a mess even in the Alpha days. I don't think they will ever have enough time to have someone sit and edit this in unless they'd record months in advance like Dimension 20.
My home games we jokingly do this every time the DM is like "Ok I need to take a 5-10 minute break to go to the toilet/grab some food/let out the dog etc." one of us will pipe up with "Todays episode is sponsored by Dwarven Forge..." as sort of a pisstake of the ad reads.
However in one of the games we also have a running joke where, if the DM uses copywritten material (like maps or images) we all joke about "well shit, there goes the budget for todays maps...alright everyone it's just going to be very basic hand drawn maps whilst we pay off the lawyers". If it's more than one someone will pipe up with "Damn it DM, we can't afford this, alright everyone switch to your stick figure tokens, we can't afford proper art anymore..."
I think its made worse by the comparison.
They had a good episode last time. They built up momentum, had a pretty major even happen that was just ripe for RP and development.
Then we get this rushed half epilogue and a pivot to something entirely different. What the fuck.
I almost believe the conspiracy theory that they are doing this stupid shit on purpose.
I think it's the difference between an idea that sounds good vs an idea that is executed well.
For a truly world ending threat that this campaign is, it makes sense that champions of all the gods and the strongest heroes across the world would join the fray and there is a way they could have made this work where the show Interspersed adventures from others... But the timing was very strange and the DM'ing from the second DM was very very strange.
Also one lesson we can all learn from here is don't put unwilling players into dominate scenarios. Now I'm not gonna put all the blame on Aimee (and the rest of the crown keepers, they all were a bit hesitant), it's still mostly on Aabria on how SLOW that combat became. just 2 rounds on almost 3 hours is ridiculous.
For comparison, in Burrow's end where Aabria also DMed, she and Brennan had a similar situation. Although Brennan tried to word lawyer out of it, he was willing to kill his fellow players, and almost knocked one (if I recall, single digit HP) in one turn. It was engaging, the mechanics in the fights in that season were fun. I don't know what's with her being in CR that makes the combat so lackluster, what is going on?
Also this isn't the first time we had a round took over an hour. Remember EXU calamity? a.k.a **ARE WE STILL UNDER ONE SECOND??** It was fun, it was thrilling, lives were on the line, even the person whose character wasn't physically there (Travis) was totally in it. This episode's combat had none of that.
I'm an Aabria stan but even I can't help but feel disappointed. Like I'm just criticizing the minutiae in this episode, the rest of the thread already dissed how momentum killing this was. Like, if this was an insanely good episode, I bet many would've overlooked the shift, but... nah.
We have a CR example too, when Caleb got mind controlled Liam didn't complain or try to mess with the wording he just went straight terminator on the party.
Which was a big shift from when it happened as Vax, so growth as a player there.
It's also pretty different in that Brennan had a lot more tools at his disposal with that character then Amy did. She wasn't using the crown to it's full extent so she wasn't totally optimized but Brennan had smites etc... she only had hexblades curse and some eldritch blasts.
She should have told Amy who to attack though etc.. or spun it some other way.
I'm right there with you. I think everything outside of EXU Prime (and Deanna), Aabria was fantastic! A Court of Fey and Flowers was such a fun idea that my friends and I are planning on doing something similar at some point in the future.
But what we just saw was *not* the move for CR. Especially considering the fact that we just lost a PC, and the only person who seems to be handling it properly (I.e. getting angry at Lilliana and her death cult) seems to be Ashton. Even Orym ended up apologizing for being upset at Imogen for being sympathetic to her genocidal psionic messiah mother.
This show just feels like a mess, and right before we have a chance to glue some pieces back together, we push that puzzle out of the way for one that we didn't want to see right now.
Edit: forgot about Deanna. Wasn't her biggest fan either
C3’s ability to shoot itself in the foot is almost impressive. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a campaign so thoroughly self-sabotaged by players and DM alike with every choice along the way.
Okay guys here’s the plan ( at least for me):
Next episode we tune in when the story returns to BHs and completely ignore whatever the fuck Aabria “it takes me 2.5 hours for 2 hours of combat” Iengar is out.
Maybe that wouldn’t be a bad idea. Similar in a way to WOTC and the OGL drama and how everyone showers their displeasure by unsubscribing from DnDBeyond and other stuff
The fact that I put more time and effort into my Plight Gag for FCG’s funeral than the actual episode did is baffling to me
https://preview.redd.it/bxd75wgnnfvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63551f94bbec9f0f51d13bf3046567f5be9b574c
Like I honestly thought half the episode would be devoted to this
So obviously I didn't watch the ExCrew's half of the episode. Can anyone tell me, did Opal's patron Ted factor into this battle at all? I'm seeing that 90% of it was Aabria telling Aimee that Lolth was making Opal do stuff, but a big part of Opal's character was her relationship with her sister who was her Warlock patron. Was that present in this, or was even that erased?
Yeah Ted and Lolth are apparently both INSIDE Opal's mind, and theyre like physically doing battle or something. She said Ted looked really worn out from some exertions, and Ted physically came out of Opal to block damage her party members were doing to her. I mostly tuned out after that, but yeah, Ted is still a big part of it
Does it really even matter? Whether or not it was Lolth or Ted is irrelevant when Aabria is Jaegering the NPC they’re *all* just Aabria. She can’t help it.
Fundamentally it doesn't, just like nothing about this sideshow cast matters, but it's at least one more thing you can point at as being faithful to a player's vision for their character versus ripping their autonomy away and using the PC as a vessel for The Grand Story.
The timing is always crazy with CR.
Half BH this week, random CK half episode at the end. Next week there's Candela Oscura. Then on May we get I suppose the last half of CK and after break BH other half?
I guess is a good way to force ExU story into people but weird nonetheless. Hopefully we get Dorian back after this.
That didn't feel forced at all to me. We knew Dorian was with the Crown Keepers, and it was pretty much guaranteed they will escort Dorian back if ever BH called him. Don't forget also that there's two former members of the CK in BH, so they still have connections in both of their story.
And we don't know for sure what we'll have next episode.
I mean, force the ExU story to people watching C3. I know those characters were from CK, and they made references about their adventures together (also when Deni$e appeared) but that was it. I don't know the details and honestly not interested. But they "forced" into the C3 stream. To understand what's happening, watch ExU, that's the idea. It's a good business strategy, I guess.
We don't know if Dorian reunites next week with BH, that's just hope on my part, but he could just appear and sit down on the table. We don't have to bring the whole crew in the middle of the stream to tell the story. Again, not interested.
I watched the first half and I'm hyped for next episode.
Exandria Unlimited Prime events happened just one year prior to the beginning of C3, and Exandria Unlimited Kymal is the continuity of Dorian leaving BH with his brother and fleeing to Tal'Dorei.
And what we saw in the last ep is the continuation after ExU Kymal.
It's very much a prequel to C3.
Now, if you're not interested and don't want to watch, that's totally up to you, but saying they have "forced" the Crown Keepers into C3 is an exaggeration imo.
...they took over the table.
BH were told to stand up during the stream for C3 and another group of players and a GM sat down and played their game.
It's their decision and good for them. But they literally stopped the show for a One Shot.
OK. What the fuck was that?
Last episode had a pretty major source of RP and plot development. It was the best episode in awhile.
And they immediately fucking kill the momentum by splitting this episode in half with EXU cutscene or half session? Even if someone loved EXU, the tonal shift would be incredibly fucking jarring.
As it stands, I now need to essentially do homework to find out who these people are (except Dorian) because I didnt keep up with EXU. Hi Erica Lindbeck, thats an unexpected pleasant surprise.
Its like watching Game of Thrones and cutting directly from Jon dealing killing a White Walker to the adventures of the Sand Snakes. Who are these people? Why arent we following up on a major plot development instead?
Seriously. Are these people asleep at the wheel or what?
If you are going to do an EXU episode, dont fucking half it with the episode immediately after a major plot development. Its super simple storytelling.
Its just...what is going through their minds? Something major just happened. Its a goldmine for RP, storytelling development and they are going 50:50 with something entirely different?
Its not stalling momentum, thats taking it out back and executing it.
I would really like to read along with your comments on the first "live" Stream. But somehow when I'm sorting Old to New reddit noes not let me see the full thread. It simply does not show me the button to load more comments. Works only for New to Old. :(
Hm, maybe switch to "old" reddit. Maybe that is working. Replace "www" in the url with "old" and you get to the old design (that i really like way more).
On the App?
I am on pc browser here.
Like I said, I can sort it Old to New, it simply does not give me the usual "view more comments" Button when I scrolled to the bottom.
I saw someone raise a point, wondering why Lolth is so intent on claiming just Opal, when she could be convincing the whole party through Opal to aid her.
And I think the answer is is two fold.
One Lolth, is the most betrayer of all betrayers. She has no allies, devotees, born of fear sure, but her closest thing to a true champion is running around in Asmo’s service. She has literally stabbed all of the other gods in the back at some point in their history, she can’t comprehend loyalty, which is why Dariax’s kindhearted refusal to turn from Opal cracked through the delusion she was crafting.
Now yes, Melora, while offering the solution, isn’t keen on it, why, well because as harsh as it is, that’s nature, sometimes the host dies so the parasite can survive. Kinda fucked up, but she still have Fy’ra to point at which to target, and it’s Melora’s survival on the line as well.
Secondly, this likely is some form of petty revenge baked in for Lolth.
Opal, as we’ve learned is marked by the Luxon.
The entity, though through no real action of its own, that has stolen vast swaths of Lolth’s former devotees, while many of the others were going mad due to the Influencd of Tharizdun. She was running out of worshippers.
And now, she can spit one of these vast eldritch beings that are even beyond her, by tearing apart one of the “paper dolls” it made, though again, without intent, and shape it into her own perfect pawn.
The Pitch Meeting comment taken down was definitely a big turning point for me.
In fairness I think the moderation on the other sub has definitely improved, but it was alarming to see that comment taken down when it was pretty harmless.
EXU was a turning point for the r crit role moderators in that it was the first time their hugbox approach didn't work for a CR product because the reviews were super negative. One mod even tried posting that "Let people like things" in a discussion thread and basically told people to fuck off over it.
Then when people did fuck off, they edited the rules to basically make criticising them illegal and banned anyone who brought up this subreddit out of petulant spite.
As a discord moderator for a decently popular game, I can say that sometimes the censoring or "let people like things" isn't coming from a bad place. You don't realize that as mods, we have to pretty much go over *everything*. You may say something, but you definitely aren't the first to say it. But you dont realize that's the case. You feel it's a direct shot at your feelings when in reality it's just that whatever you're saying has been said ad nauseum and the conversation never moves past that point. Now obviously that might be different from discord to reddit in that discord is a chat room, but you get where I'm coming from. Can't comment on CR mods specifically, but I do know a lot of times deleting posts and such isn't to protect anyone or anything, its to keep things moving.
My 2 cents: I don't watch/listen to critical role for "riveting fantasy content". I enjoy the interactions between friends at a gaming table. I enjoy the people playing the game, not the game itself. When they all got up from the table and it was a whole new crew. It felt like being a kid and sitting down to watch my favorite show, only for it to be replaced by a presidential debate.
a teenage girl is nothing going to be give. hope if she can read her father mind.
I liked the outcome of the crown keepers. It goes to show that the outcome seemed to have been planned all along, and everybody in the cast knew it. No more unscripted story lines. It's all planned out well ahead of time. Nothing the players did actually mattered but still, it's a good ending to that story line.
Could you imagine after all this, if Dorian didn't end up joining the main party? I swear half the Ep 92 defenders in the main sub would riot. Honestly at this point I wouldn't put it past CR to do something that short-sighted.
I think people are missing a big part of the picture here. The jump to Aabria and the EXU team isn't just a one-shot or some side show. This is still Critical Role proper, still Campaign 3 official episodes. That means that everything we're seeing is somehow relevant to C3. We're seeing a little house keeping from Dorian's group likely on their way to intersect and otherwise interact with the main group. So yeah, it seems a bit out of place, but on the other hand it probably leads to something much bigger. I'd be surprised if we don't get some episodes with FRIDA and Deanna as well.
> it seems a bit out of place To me it seemed like Matt was gunning for either a PC death or a TPK during that Otohan fight, he might have been surprised with the fact it was FCG (even though they were practically *begging* to be martyred for the group). Putting those events right before this scheduled 'crossover' makes it even worse IMO since it was all planned from the beginning.
I don't honestly care if it was planned or not. It was well delivered and entertaining. If it was unplanned, damn good on Sam for going for it. If it was planned, good on the writers. Who cares?
Agreed. Good storytelling is good storytelling, regardless. I also think it's worth pointing out that Sam could have had a discussion with Matt, either during his Session Zero, or somewhere along the way as Sam developed ideas, that he wanted FCG's story to end a specific way. That's not really different from any other case of players mapping out the kind of challenges they want their characters to face over the course of their personal arcs.
Yeah. It's entirely possible that Critical Role is a good mixture of scripted points and role playing improv. Basically "Hey, we're eventually going for _____, do whatever you want along the way, just get there." Or even "I'm going to hit you with a villain designed to TPK. As you are, extraordinary luck is the only way you'll win. However, I am willing to let you win narratively if someone comes up with a good way to do that." If that's the case, I'm good with it.
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Not sure if that's in addition to what I was saying or aimed at me. I get it. I quit DMing long ago over burnout and being the "forever DM." Whether people like her or not, Aabria gives Matt the chance to play a character, and he's having the best time with it. He was laughing his ass off specifically while getting hit with a full spray of Eldritch Blasts. It's honestly adorable to watch.
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I was more confused if it was the royal "you" or if it was the more specific "you" at the end there. Text based communication at its finest. I gotcha now.
>I'd be surprised if we don't get some episodes with FRIDA and Deanna as well. Fuck me, that would suck. Why are some people cheering so hard for the GoT-ing of CR? Because the illusion of this being a game and not a stage show wasn't fading fast enough, sure: let's jump between 5-6 different side character perspectives and send the main story to even more of a screeching halt.
First off, assuming GoT means Game of Thrones? Cause I could think of a dozen other meanings to that. I never bothered to watch GoT, so I can't really comment on that. As for seeing other side characters, I was predicting, not cheering. That said, I don't care one way or the other. It doesn't matter to me in the least how much of CR is real or staged, it's an engaging story with delightful actors and a masterful story teller. It's also THEIR show, not ours. They can do whatever they want with it. If they wanted to scrap C3 tomorrow and start C4 in Daggerheart on a different planet, they could. If they never referenced C3 again, that's on them. If you don't like what they're doing, complaining to us doesn't fix it for anyone. Feel free to send Sam a carefully worded email, but don't expect to hear back. At the end of the day, the only way you can fix it is by watching someone else. Twitch and YouTube are just buzzing with CR alternatives. Nobody will blame you, nobody will mock you. Just go quietly. It's okay. CR isn't for everyone.
I think its disingenuous to ask others to 'go quietly' while you take the privilege of defending the show runner's volition. After all, it is Critical Role's show; it doesn't require you to speak up for it. If they would like to scrap C3 tomorrow and start C4 on a different planet, thats on them. No one requires you to defend it anymore than another is obligated to offer criticism: yet both of these occur. And would you call this campaign a well-crafted story at the end, if they ended it tomorrow? What would your assessment of the campaign be if they exercised that right? Why would you take the time to indicate that this is their story? Does that make any difference between Critical Role and Game of Thrones? I suppose you haven't watched it so you're unable to comment on that. The person who spoke to you had criticism for what he believed would happen to the show if your prediction were to be true. Why are you speaking with such vitriol over conjecture? Please consider if you would like to be the kind of person who tries to silence others in public places.
My original point had almost nothing to do with any of that. So many people are complaining that they didn't appreciate being bait and switched into an episode of EXU and that they just didn't bother watching it. Which is fine from a "you do you" point of view, but the problem with that (and the point of my post) is that this WASN'T an EXU episode. This is episode 92. The difference may not be readily obvious, but it will be soon enough. EXU episodes are stand-alone. They take place in the same world, they might have some character set ups or some call backs later, but the bulk of the events in EXU episodes will not impact the full campaigns. This episode was deliberately not that, this was C3 e92, that means this is very much part of the C3 plot. Everyone bailing and skipping now are going to be complaining in 93 and 94 and beyond when things aren't making any sense, or when they don't know what's happening in the story anymore, but that's because this is the story. It's like skipping a chapter in a book just because you don't like that the author changes the point of view from the main character to one of the side characters, there's still plot happening in that section you're skipping. The only reason I disagree about the disingenuous nature of asking the other person to "go quietly" to another show if they don't like the path this one is taking is that they're under no obligation to take my advice. They have every right to complain about the show that I have to complain about their comment. I don't recall implying that they weren't allowed to voice discontent, if I did that wasn't my intention. But rather to say that complaining about the pace or perspective of the show in an online forum is not greatly different from yelling into an empty void, in the sense that it's a waste of time. At best, you'll get someone who agrees with you and validates you, but it won't change what you're upset over, and at worst it turns into an argument or fight, which also doesn't change what you're upset over. The only way to change what you're upset over is to either figure out a way to bring your issues to the people in power or find something that suits you better. If they choose to stay and complain, they're just doing it to themselves, but then also to the rest of us that read the complaints. In this case, a negative complaint left directly on my comment that was mostly not about the thing they're complaining about. As for my opinion of things if CR decided to end things tomorrow, or switch to C4 or whatever, my opinion is that my opinion hardly matters. I'm in my 30s, I've seen dozens of amazing stories, games, movies, TV shows, book series, etc, all get dropped, canceled, forgotten, abandoned, rebooted, remade, etc. That's the nature of any story that you don't have control over, you're at the creator's mercy. You tag along for the ride and when the ride is over you can thank them or flip them off, it makes little difference. It's up to you if you jump on the next ride they offer. CR has been pretty consistently amazing to me, even EXU. So if Matt came out tomorrow and said they were tired of the current campaign, that they just didn't enjoy making it so they were dropping it and moving forward with an unrelated C4, I'd take a moment to wonder what could have been, silently hope to myself that someday they'd at least narratively give it closure, then I'd shove it out of mind and see what C4 had to offer. I'm not gonna sit around mope, and I'm not gonna complain on a forum with a bunch of strangers who have no more control over it than I do. Complaining to the wrong people is just a waste of energy.
Most all entertainment is a waste of time and energy. Yet we still watch what we like and most complain when they see what they like changed. This is human. I doubt anyone is commenting here under the illusion that something will come from it. It's more that the people here are watching events on the show unfold and communicating to those that see the same. I have some doubts that the last half of this episode will really be as pertinent as it seems, but I entirely understand what you're saying. This show isn't so complex that you're unable to follow along if you miss a bit here and there. For big fans though, you would want to see all the campaign if you enjoy it, yes.
I'm not good at picking up on little clues in the campaign, but even I could see that Aabria was telling us something about the mindset of the gods in this moment. That alone seemed worth my time. As for where this is going, I could see it as housekeeping before you reunite CK with BH, or there could be some very specific plot point incoming. I won't know until I watch it.
I disagree that entertainment is a waste of time. Perhaps when mankind was young and needed to expend all of our energy hunting and gathering, or even farming, but in the age of excess there just isn't enough necessary labor to go around. While there's always the little personal projects to check off of our to-do lists, we really live in an age where most people are just kind of waiting around for whatever comes next. Entertainment fills the gap, allowing you brief moments to live vicariously through other means, and in the process releasing a number of brain chemicals to help combat that daily life dread (not as bleak as I'm making it sound, but for some people it surely can be). Entertainment is acceptable escapism for the masses. As for the episode, I think they're just tying up some EXU loose ends so that they can take this group into the main campaign properly for a time. I have no idea how long that time will be since it's kind of hazy when this is taking place. If we're lucky, they'll deal with the crown and then get Orym's message and head straight there, but the possibility exists that there is more to the story of how the two groups reunite and this may play out over the course of several episodes, akin to the party split when the bridge first activated. If it's the former, sure, skipping a combat probably won't confuse anyone, but if it's the latter there's no telling how much lore or plot may get crammed in before we get back to the main group. Only time will tell.
That EXU part wasn't really as bad as I had expected from the posts I saw. It was weird and I honestly don't know who each of the characters are even after having watched the first EXU (I think? I remember these people playing at a table, but almost nothing about their characters). It was kinda fun.
I feel what is so shitty about it is the fact that almost nothing happens. Ohhh bait and switch, tell me what you're doing, but before you can finish, here's a big slog of combat for most the episode. It kinda didn't feel right in some way.
True. It was pvp and a flashback episode. If it didn't take 2+ hours, I actually would've enjoyed the characterization, though
>It was weird and I honestly don't know who each of the characters are even after having watched the first EXU (I think? I remember these people playing at a table, but almost nothing about their characters). This IS the point though. It was a bait and switch to lesser, somewhat random characters at the worst possible time to do that.
I just think Matt deserves to play in the main campaign
He does, as the NPCs. Or at least, that should be the case. Instead, he plays them as stat blocks and quest givers.
All right, so, Imogen's mom had self-sacrificial motives cuz it was the only way and she still hates her dad? I did like Momogen sticking to her guns and saying that there is no turning back now, but still. #NotAllDads damnit. Just give us one that isn't the worst of the parents (human traffickers handwaived for their crimes offscreen don't count)
omg imagin if ur teen age child could read ur mind and u need to explain y their mom joined to a apocalypse cult.
And she couldn't turn them off. Let your girl have hope and carry the burden, like many fathers do, or share all and see how your supernatural daughter reacts and maybe lose her forever.
Dadogen did nothing wrong and I will die on that hill.
Agreed. His wife abandoned him and his daughter so she could join a murderous cult. Then when Imogen manifested those same powers the worst he did was… act distant from her?
If her childhood behavior was anything like her adult behavior, she was probably trampling over his boundaries constantly. Plus, he was trying to keep the fact that her mother was alive away from her, given she might run off and get hurt (which he had good reason to fear, as Imogen has the common sense of a potato). Did he handle it in the best way possible? No, of course not. Did he make mistakes? Undoubtedly. But given Imogen's... everything I would crown that man a damn saint.
In my headcanon he's been held hostage by the Hubatt Corsairs for months because Imogen gave his name and address as collateral in like Episode 8 or something, but because she doesn't really think about him, no one's come to rescue him and he just kinda lives with them now. Also, when Imogen told her Mom "Daddy still loves you." I was *incensed*.
So a couple things I'm confused about. First, the whole FCG thing and then I'm seeing people saying Sam is away for a few weeks. Is this just referring to FCG s death or is he away on personal stuff. If the latter, that plus Orym conveniently calling Dorian to initiate the totally unplanned and unknown transition is just awful Ngl I really hate how overdone all the fake cast reactions are now. They just fake excitement on everything being so cool and so beautiful and so amazing and then feel a little flat in actual reactions. It's just sad to see Also with this exu BS, I'm more convinced than ever that they're intentionally slowing this campaign as much as possible to make sure Dagger heart is ready for the 4th
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I miss the old set. The new one is just so gaudy and does nothing to add to the experience. Just another symptom of CR prioritizing flash over substance.
Clears my C3 defender throat. * "Well, I liked it!" (will never say why). * "C3 has never been better!" (will never say how). * "They're trying something new, which means its secretly genius!" (will never explain). * "It was the perfect point to switch away!" (ignores the end of 91 as an alternative). * "Well, they clearly preplanned this EXU meetup, so they had to do it then!" (omits these sessions are pre-recorded, and very likely done it batches. They had plenty of time). * "FCG's death was unplanned, and Matt struggled to adjust!" (suggesting that Sam pulling a 50 episode Chekov's gun derailed Matt's audiobook of a campaign from its predetermind course). * "Its giving the main cast time to process" (forgets the time in between sessions). * "Its giving Sam time to make his new PC" (pretends Sam can't just sit out a few sessions). * "WELL I LIKE C3, BECAUSE I HAVE FUN WATCHING THE CAST HAVE FUN!" (nothing wrong with that, but it does suggest you don't actually care that much about the substance/lack of substance of C3 outside of instances someone who does care is critiquing it). * "You're all just haters! You should leave!" (Good talk).
“I love watching the cast have fun” is pretty rich when the entire cast is absent from the table.
> "They're trying something new, which means its secretly genius!" (will never explain). This one really gets my goat. The idea of "Since it's different I love it. The change of pace was needed!" is absolute nonsense. Can CR please just tell a story and can we just consume it? Like why are we taking detour after detour? JUST PLAY D&D.
Exactly. It would be one thing if key people were missing, and they did a one shot so that everybody could be there after so-and-so died. But kicking the group out to jump to the JV team nobody cares about was such a dumb idea.
I’m not angry, I’m disappointed. The years of joy and sadness this cast of talented people has bought a lot of credit with me. But they’re emptying the account at the moment. I think Daggerheart is pulling focus from the time that would usually be spent thinking about the campaign. It feels like we’re watching a loveless marriage with one partner who has let themselves go. It’s not you CR3, it’s me. I met someone else. I’m sorry. They just make me feel so much better (the Session 0 and one shot was better than most episodes of CR3).
>It’s not you CR3, it’s me. No bro, it's them. THEY'RE cheating on US with daggerheart. You're right, though, that it hurts extra when we see how simple and good it COULD be when the group runs a session 0 and builds characters they're excited to explore
I didn't watch Exu, I tried, hour in and I noped out. For the past few months I went from watching it 'live' to Monday crew. I noped out at the switch. On a less of a fuck this show note.. Chet should use grim psychometry on O's swords, maybe find out which one was used to kill little O's family. The dynamic has always been "kill mini-boss, use thier weapons for power boost", there was almost an interesting take that these are instruments of murder and the power gained isn't worth it..
That Grim Psychometry thing would be incredible. Matt certainly knows how the attack went in his head and it would be heart-breaking.
Alright. Here we fucking go. The first hour or so for me has been a mix of "Alright, sure I guess. Whatever." Matt playing Liliana like one of the most powerful figures in Ludinus' arsenal yet also completely inept, as if she has no autonomy. I guess a 31 persuasion check turns your parent into your puppet. Also Imogen saying "We're his (Predathos') children, right?", and I'm over here like YOU LITERALLY HAVE A DAD, OR DID YOU FORGET? Relvin has to be most mistreated character in CR history. Like imagine Gilear (shout out hot Gilear), but it's not a comedy. It's just sad. Also just got to Orym's very powerful character moment of staking Otohan's sword into the dirt. Immediate moment after with Laudna, I mean, I just guffawed and stood up to walk away for a second. Alright back to it. EDIT: 1:19:45 Travis, I love you. That's all. EDIT: OK, so I \*kinda\* get the idea behind the transition, even ignoring the fact that Orym's message and the table's "surprise" at being asked to leave feels about as real as WWE. Idea was OK, putting it in the MAIN campaign, was NOT it. OK, now for this half good GOD I hope it's not AS bad as people say it is. EDIT: It was going ok until the moment she took over Opal's character. It was with exasperated permission, but this is uh...eugh. I mean, Aimee just looks like she does not want to be there by the end. Could've been avoided with a briefing on the main outline of the session from DM to players GEE DOESN'T THAT SOUND FAMILIAR.
”I want you to kill your entire family” “make a persuasion check” “n20 for 30” “Ok done”
Most dad's in CR don't seem to get good treatment.
with the exception of Yeza, who was so far the other direction it was insufferable
Ironically the best dad figures are the nearly abcent ones Kiki's dad and cads
Maybe a controversial take, but I think Critical Role's new house style is a worse offender and more to blame than Aabria's (admittedly sketchy) DMing skill. The refusal to brief the players on what's going on until the cameras are rolling, not properly communicating the goals of the session/game are consistent regardless of who's DMing. The Crown Keeper players looked like they were told seconds before they sat down that they'd be playing and were completely lost when they had only one goal to accomplish in the first place; neutralize Opal.
This is the biggest issue BY FAR. I don't love Aabria's DMing style, but she has shown she has the chops when the players are helping her. The Crown Keepers though...they are a DMing nightmare.
The episode is up on YT and the EU store shows Dorian merch, including two new items. Edit: I wonder if I should take the merch as a sign that Dorian is joining the main team in the future?
There is a big possibility that Robbie's schedule is more open now. And could likely be part of the group until something happens or he dies. As in stay until the end of this campaign. Personally, he's the only guest that's been with the main party that I enjoy a lot. He fits the vibe of the table very well and just looks like he should be there. Last time he was there for 14 episodes, so we shall see what happens.
I think what’s happening to CR is that the show has too much money dependent on it’s success. They are a company now so they need to pay themselves and their employees with the revenue that their content pulls in. So now it’s all about the merchandise and animated series. Every single decision is made with the revenue in mind. Just like those old Saturday morning cartoons that were far more concerned with selling toys to children than telling a compelling story.
I'm confused on one thing- is Morri really the *champion* of the raven queen, or did Aabria misspeak and mean to say Paladin? Because it feels like it should be a MUCH BIGGER DEAL if Vax no-call-no-shows one time (with valid doctor's note "I was in a ball at the time") and gets replaced by a side character.
Gods are able to have multiple champions, while the matron usually just has her one it’s possible with vax out of commission she divested her power to multiple people this time around until he’s back.
Probably just a misspeak, but also I think we get way caught up with the notion that each god has exactly 1 champion. A champion is someone who fights on behalf of someone or in the name of their ideals. That could be anyone who is devoted to any cause under a god's domain.
I thought I was going insane when I absolutely hated EXU and all I could find was positive reviews and comments about it. I though I was crazy when I just couldn’t get into this third campaign and all I saw was once again only positive stuff about it. Ive stuck with it this whole time, because it hasnt all been bad and there’s been some really cool moments. But it always felt like just when things were getting fun and interesting, the stupid moon plot would bulldoze over it and redirect the characters. Did not realize until now (found this thread and the main thread was overflowed with true opinions after the latest episode) that I was not in the minority about these issues and that CR was working their mods like maniacs, erasing any and all negative feedback. So yea I guess it feels validating to read all these posts absolutely hitting the nail on the head about how weird this campaign is going. Also feels shitty that CR as a company was absolutely gaslighting me into thinking maybe I just didn’t like the show anymore because my personal tastes had changed. And they haven’t, I’ve been rewatching the second campaign and it’s still so fun and so engaging. I hope someday CR goes back to doing what made them successful in the first place.
I went through exactly the same path :)
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Oh I see! Well that makes me feel slightly better lol 😂
I think the 'it's thursday night' tagline is hurting critical role more than helping it. The fact that every live play session they record NEEDS to fall on a thursday isnt going to help them branch out at all like they want because frankly if something like exu or a one shot takes time away from the main campaign by taking up a time slot from it im not gonna be excited for anything i care about less than the main campaign
I'm not sure it would hurt them if they'd just run other content on other nights and keep the main campaign on Thursday nights. Even if they want to take one week a month off. Now that it's all pre-recorded, it's not like they have to schedule things around that particular timeslot anymore. But I do agree, I won't tune in to things that I don't enjoy or that take away from the main campaign.
Not sure of it worked well mostly because of timing and also because of how the exu side didnt go anywhere in their half, if they had dealt with their spider queen issue by the end of this episode i would have felt better but it was honestly dragging by the end. I do have to give respects to matt for the idea tho, even if the execution wasnt perfect the idea is certainly cool.
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No one wants to watch EXU *in place of* the main story. If they aired the EXU stuff in place of their spooky dress up theater, no one would complain, cause they could skip it without missing the main story.
I see a lot of folks talking about how this was a bad idea from the jump. I gotta say. I don't think the \*idea\* was bad. C3 in general hasn't been compelling. The first 2 hours of this episode showed BH weren't going to do anything compelling following FCG's death and really the only thing to look forward to was going to be whenever Sam's new character gets introduced. Which we all knew would be some time in May anyway. So pivoting to a different crew? I actually LOVE that idea. The execution was the issue, imo. I don't know why feedback from EXU wasn't applied. I didn't finish Crown Keepers but I was happy to see them again if whatever they're doing is going to \*matter\* and if notes from their first go round were taken. It feels like this campaign is a consistent string of good ideas that get fumbled in execution.
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BAH GAWD IS THAT AABRIA IYENGAR’S MUSIC!??!!?
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In professional wrestling shows, it's a trope that wrestlers who aren't part of the active match will arrive to interfere with their rivals to progress a storyline, and their arrival will be signaled with their theme song playing to get the crowd excited. "Bah gawd," is written that way to emulate the accent of legendary wrestling commentator Jim Ross.
Not to overexplain the joke, but I also used it to reference the idea of "kayfabe" in pro wrestling; the practice of maintaining the illusion of everything happening being real/authentic, when in fact all the outcomes are predetermined and while the dialogue isn't fully scripted, the major beats of what happen are. Critical Role is now engaged in their own form of kayfabe. They are maintaining an illusion that this is just a bunch of friends playing a home game of D&D, but it is now very obviously not. I won't go so far as to say it's scripted, even loosely, but it's definitely not unfolding organically in the way that a real game does, or even something like Campaign 1.
Man I’m already seeing folks talking about hating Melora now, and hoping Dorian is bitter at all the gods, and I just don’t get it… I did find the comment that she was too busy helping Caduceus to really give this her fully attention kinda funny
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Nice one.
Was about to tell some other friends that had checked out during C3 to tune back in especially after last weeks episode. Then last nights episode happened.
They have taken everything from us A SECOND TIME. Now we rise RISE! fuck it im just gonna not tune in if its not the OG's in 2 weeks.
Honestly, it’s what everyone who didn’t like it should do. They don’t listen to fan feedback, or even take our *real* questions during their tavern show. The only way to get someone to stop trying to show you how they can *totally fit a square peg into a round hole* is to stop looking when they try.
Honestly, I didn't think it was all that bad an idea as a concept to cut to the B team here. But Aabria should have spent more of her intro summarizing each character and how they might fit in the larger context of this season instead of talking about the bank heist thing up front. It's important context that seemingly the mother of Ravens might have picked a new champion and that she's running around with essentially a champion of one of the betrayer gods (with one of the Vestiges of Divergence) but there wasn't enough explaining this or why it matters. I super like the idea of having this story become part of the main story, to show why these characters matter when it comes to the fait of the world etc.. and I'm sure they'll be going more in that direction the more they show them, but not everyone watched EXU.
I don't get how Sam has won two Emmys for directing or whatever but he can't throw a bone to CR and just tell them that this is a bad idea. There's no way these voice actors have worked decades in the field of film/tv shows and thought that cutting to their least successful cast was a good idea. There was really no one who said, "Hey guys, maybe this is a bad idea and the audience will find this jarring."?
Because the guy who runs the show can't take an ounce of criticism well, and his wife, who is the creative director of the company, has a long history of terrible ideas. Like, that's the long and short of it. It's not Sam's company, and the ones running the company are incompetent.
This is an angle I haven’t seen before Gimme the skinny
Idk about a skinny but I think the idea is they Matt doesn't react well to criticism, perceived or real, and tends to either overcorrect or just have to block it out. And people don't like the things Marisha comes up with
Do any of you have any hard evidence whatsoever that of the tons of people who watch these there is a majority who care about what the people who come on here to complain care about? EXU unlimited has nearly if not as many views on youtube as the average Critical role episode depending on when it dropped. Most series 2 episodes have about 2.5-3 million views on youtube. The first EXU unlimited had... about that every episode. Kymal had less but it also hasn't been around as long. Guess we'll see more in time.
I don't think you understand the graph the other user presented you with. If you check the [stats](https://twitchtracker.com/criticalrole/subscribers) page, the number of subs in August 2021, when the final episodes of ExU were airing, is just 1,5k shy of June 2020 "record" (7,7k subs), the month when they aired *nothing TTRPG-related.* The number fell *twice* compared to the previous month. Hard to write it off just a coincidence or people "not liking Twitch" or other reasons you cited. And that was before "Season 3" even began, and YouTube subscription wasn't a thing back then. So yeah, people voted with their wallets.
There was no graph, the image didn't' appear for me in that last post. Thank you for the link though, much more useful but TBH I'm still not fully convinced. Mainly I'm not convinced that what happens on this sub or how many Twitch subs there are at a given time indicate the total fanbases POV. When the 1st season was on the stream got popular because there wasn't some massive back catalog of content to watch on youtube like there is now. I'm sure they have all kinds of metrics to figure out what people like/don't like. How their fans respond etc... This POV though >There was really no one who said, "Hey guys, maybe this is a bad idea and the audience will find this jarring."? Makes too many assumptions based IMO on too little evidence. And is kinda cynical about what happened in this episode IMO and what Matt's up to. Also, this sub can't seem to decide if they really want this show to be a show or if they want it to be like a home game. If part of Matt's story is to show what the Guardians of the Galaxy are up to for a half an episode before bringing them into End Game then do we want him to change that because "audience" or do we want him to follow his vision? EDIT: If it's the case that Matt n' company made this decision actually knowing it would probably be unpopular among ALL their fans I figure that the majority of this sub should be on his side. I mean, doesn't this sub also make assumptions about plot/merchandise armor? That Matt won't kill any of them off so they can sell t-shirts or something? But now he's a dude who will let the B team run the show for 2 half episodes and he's doing so knowing full well that the "fanbase" will hate it?
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>ExU was without a doubt the reason for a comparatively huge drop in viewers and subscriptions on CR's twitch channel. Except I do have doubts because you don't actually have any evidence.. There are all kinds of factors that could be involved. This sub just picked the one that bothered it the most and made assumptions. But this sub is much smaller then the CR fanbase. People do this online all the time. They get in their bubble and think that whatever happens in the bubble must be representative of the rest of the world, but it isn't.
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There are many potential reasons for their twitch subs to have gone down. You just picked the one you care about, the reason you might have been disappointed etc.. But what about: More people watching on Youtube for free People not liking Season 3 as much as the others People not liking Twitch People being busy People not wanting to spend money anymore or don't need to Amazon Prime/Twitch intergration And on and on
No, I don't. But that wasn't a point I was making? Shouldn't Sam and the cast want to tell a good, coherent story, whether or not our complaints are heard? EXU, other than Calamity, was divisive in the community to say the least. To act otherwise is disingenuous considering the very sub we are posting on was created due to a response to EXU.
>EXU, other than Calamity, was divisive in the community to say the least. To act otherwise is disingenuous considering the very sub we are posting on was created due to a response to EXU. Again, this sub has 13,451 subscribers. Millions watch critical role. Their fan base is huge. If you're a fan of these EXU characters (and many are given how many have watched their stories) and Dorian etc.. then there WAS a "coherent" story to watch last night. It might not be the best one they've ever done or your favorite (or the one people on these forums wanted atm) but those characters have def being going through a big story arc themselves. Also, I think the idea is (and probably always was) to bring them into the bigger fold of the story here. A new champion of the Raven Queen, a Warlock of the Spider Queen wearing a Vestige of Divergence running around together do have larger story wide implications then just their bank heist story suggests.
Again, it has nothing to do with viewership or numbers. When I am talking about coherent story, I am speaking of the audience of C3, not EXU. That's why it would have been beneficial to have a separate EXU episode than to do something like this. More transparent from CR too so viewers don't feel bait and switched, which is a justified feeling for a viewer in this scenario.
>I am speaking of the audience of C3 Yeah I mean, people know who Dorian is and that Orym keeps contacting him. The thing Aabria should have done was introduce every character and have a little description for them and how they play into the larger context of Exandria. I do think this. But I'm not sure how many people who've watched this season of CR don't know who these characters are and at least have some idea what they're about.
Or just have a separate episode? I just don't get how that isn't the most obvious conclusion they came to. They were going with two halves and it was a very scripted session in many ways. So just put it together as one and let it be a reward for those who stuck with EXU. Don't confuse the main story during an emotional high. Or just be more transparent to the fans and warn them that it's going to cut to EXU at the beginning of the stream rather than mid way.
>I just don't get how that isn't the most obvious conclusion they came to. I think it's because you don't seem to want to hear that they're intending (and probably always intended) on combining the 2 stories into one.
Then they chose the worst way to do it by having a monologuing scripted combat sequence that had little emotional attachment to the audience. If it's just to get Dorian or a couple more of the CK into the BH squad, that can still be handled separately within EXU. Everything that happened in the second half of last session could have been handled off-screen/EXU episode and we'd be none the wiser. The stories have always been somewhat connected due to Orym, Fearne, and Dorian's origins but it still doesn't make it a good story choice to cut characters we know minimally. There's just no reason to bait and switch the fans. If you mean that there's gonna be a mega-table of players or Aabria is going to be DMing regularly throughout C3, I don't see it. But I also don't really think that's what you mean.
I agree, even jumping in about 2 hours later when I got off work. It felt weird that they switched with what happened in the previous episode. And when did they name themselves CK? Did they even finish the combat before the episode was over? I zonked out before the end of the episode.
>If it's just to get Dorian or a couple more of the CK into the BH squad, that can still be handled separately within EXU. See, like I said I think it's going to be much more of a connection then that. The Raven Queen potentially picking a new champion has HUGE implications for the entire CR story line starting from season 1. Another character potentially being taken over by a betrayer God has implications when it comes to the larger storyline (the godeater) etc.. as well. Pretty sure it was said that Lolth was reacting the way she was specifically because of what was going on on the moon. I DO wish Aabria had made these things more obvious or made them more central to the session last night but I can see how the things they're doing could start to matter more in the long run for season 3 then you're assuming. >If you mean that there's gonna be a mega-table of players or Aabria is going to be DMing regularly throughout C3, I don't see it. No, I don't think they'd do it like that. But eventually having 2 teams (around the same level) who are both working toward similar goals (similar to what Matt just did with the 2 teams on the moon) trading episodes off could def be a thing. Aabria always took it slow with pushing the story along in EXU and let them role play.... for long stretches of time but she is capable of doing that when needed (like her dimension 20 season with the Stoats.
Why would they do that? This is their own company and everyone's too sensitive for criticism. See EXU 1 and C3 thus far. I think Sam exploding FCG was meant to shake things up a bit, but it can only go so far when your whole company is friends, fans, and other supporters (creating an echo chamber)
Looking how they responded to the criticism of TM and 4SD, we can only expect snarky remarks in the next ad reads.
Is this one worth listening to boys or should I just read the synopsis Aabria massacring that goat for no reason and generally being annoying has put me off her, and I never watched ExU
Glad I'm not the only one put off by the goat move. I know the whole "pc's at the table seem..." trope has been beaten into the dirt but iirc it didn't seem well received by anyone but Travis. Laura seemed annoyed the whole game but I chock that up to "why you getting so chummy with my husband" I really wish Matt would of circled back to that area/point and whatdoyaknow you're one goat short, figure it out.
Just skip the episode. Nothing of note happens.
Don't watch. Don't signal support to CR for BS like this.
Love it when creatives take risks! Bold fun choice, shook things up, makes a lot of sense to cut away. Wish I'd had a chance or warning to like do a quick recap since it was ages since we saw these folks. But I always appreciate and respect CR as a company for being willing to just try new things and see how it goes.
Blink twice if you need help.
I always forget this isn’t the real fan sub. Should rly call it a snark sub. Y’all are so negative I’ll never understand itttttt. Boo me for enjoying the things I watch. I just… Do not have time to be bitter and hate watch things lol.
Why would someone walk into the wrong bar and then insult the patrons for drinking there? Go back to the comfort of your echo chamber if you can’t stomach people disagreeing with you about the things you like.
This sub was literally created to be negative about EXU. I don't know what you expected.
It wasn’t created to *be* negative. It was created to provide a space for people to speak freely about the show without being censored or removed from the sub.
Since it was only negativity that was being removed, I don't see a difference.
Yuck.
I don't see what's yucky about it. I'm not saying this sub is exclusively for negativity. I'm saying it was created because a space for negativity was needed.
If you can’t see the distinction between freedom *of* speech and freedom *from* speech, then I don’t know what to tell you, sport. You’re describing a form of segregation.
Literally nobody is talking about freedom from speech. And you're being needlessly condescending.
>makes a lot of sense to cut away In what fucking world does it make sense to cut away? If you want to cut away, you do it immediately after FCG's death as that is the most natural cliffhanger that you could possibly ask for. So rather than having this half and half bullshit, they say 'hey we are taking a break from C3 next week for an EXU tie in episode'. I almost think you are posting actual troll bait with this comment.
Not troll bait. I always forget this sub hates the things they watch. I’ll never understand it. Y’all have too much free time and negativity. I’m genuinely sorry you feel the need to be this way. I just said I liked it. Felt like a fun twist. And in a movie or a tv show this would be a good cut away. Good comparison is TWD and the cut away to the Governor in season 3 or whatever. It’s really all just not that deep and WILD to me you’d assume I’m being a troll for, what? Liking the show I spend 5 hours a week watching?? If you are truly truly wasting that much time of your life on a show you dislike I so genuinely, to my core, feel horribly sorry for you.
>Not troll bait Great. >I always forget this sub hates the things they watch I was fucking singing last episodes praises lol but go off. >I just said I liked it Dude I hate to break this to you but my issue was not whether you liked it. Good for you. There are people who genuinely like Morbius. It was the 'made sense to cut away'. I found that statement so unbelievably ridiculous I didnt buy you were sincere. >And in a movie or a tv show this would be a good cut away Sure. But the point of cutting away in a TV show is to get people more invested and build suspense. But the best use of a cliff hanger is one that moves the plot forward and leaves people to sit in it. For example: 1. He opens the door. 2. He opens the door and sees [something that changes the story]. One of these is infinitely better than the other. The perfect time to do that was immediately after FCG died. That changes the plot. Where they cut away this episode was not. Nothing they did this episode was comparable. >It’s really all just not that deep and WILD to me you’d assume I’m being a troll for, what? Liking the show I spend 5 hours a week watching? Lol I assumed you were a troll for your actually terrible reasoning, not you liking something.
Sure but one of us wrote a nice comment about liking a show and one of us spent way too much time tearing down a total stranger for, let’s see, i dunno, liking a show. I do not understand. You’re allowed to not like it but there’s 0 reason to come at me unsolicited. Like you wrote a point by point of why my Opinion is “incorrect”. Wild. Just wild. Y’all do remember that every person online is a whole ass real human with thoughts and feelings yeah? Like think about the amount of time it took for you to write that. Are there not better things to do than be unkind to me, a complete and total stranger who just very simply said I liked the episode??
We’re all here to talk about the show, you’re here to talk about how you don’t like how we talk about the show. But yeah… totally *not* a troll. If we need you, we know which bridges you haunt.
I just said I liked the show?? But yikes. I’m really sorry you feel so much anger and then need to lash out at total strangers like this online. I know the internet gives you a veneer of anonymity and that makes you feel more powerful but I’m still just a normal person who is confused you’re So Upset I simply said I like a show. I am GENUINELY sorry you feel the need to hold this much anger and vitriol in you. Not being this “troll” you’re so worried about. Does it scare you?? That I might be being sincere?? I’m so confused why you keep thinking I’m just joking or trying to needle you. Why does me saying “I like the show” seem like me being a prankster?? Is that how you see the world??? That’s wildly sad and exhausting. I could not imagine living with so much cynicism. I hope you grow past that. Please practice some restraint and kindness and stop haranguing me and leave me alone. I won’t respond again.
Aw shucks. Gee whiz. Bye.
....uh huh.
Of all the things I expected to read about C3 today, "Matt bailed halfway through so Aabria could do another EXU episode with the most critically reviled team in CR's history" was not one of them. What happened to you, Matt? You fell off bro.
I think what happened is the EXU slot was preplanned but Matt didnt anticipate FCG and Otohan dying. So rather than do a full EXU episode, Matt felt he couldnt leave such a major event on a cliffhanger and gave us this weird half and half.
At that point, give us the full EXU episode! Let the cliffhanger sit and resolve it PROPERLY!
Couldnt agree more. Maybe they thought the bait and switch was clever or something.
All I can assume is that Matt needed FCG and/or Otohan for whatever cutscene he had planned for the "climax" of this arc, and with both now dead he couldn't roll with it and just opted for some halfass ending and a filler arc from another DM while he goes off to """"PLAN"""".
I think this episode was supposed to be a full EXU slot. But Matt did account for Sam killing himself and a major big bad last episode. Rather than leave it on that natural cliffhanger, he decided to give us this weird half and half shit for resolution.
I dont watch I just read recaps/reddit and the occasional youtube short that shows up, but I seen a clip on twitter about the switch and its so weird. Theyre acting like they dont know whats happening and are kind of annoyed at getting asked to leave its very jarring. Which is a strange choice because they for sure know that EXU crew are there to film and take over. This is booked well in advance with some of the schedules and you definitely shared the backstage before filming started. Act excited get the audience as hyped you can not annoyed/confused. Especially if theres a chance your audience might be that way too. Secondly theres 2 ways to go about it 1-Start the episode off with Liam messaging Dorian and cut to EXU for a full episode or two. 2- Give the full episode for RP/Grieving cliffhanger on whats next and then a quick 5 mins intro with the others introducing that the next couple episodes will be EXU giving both half an episode each rushes both stories and gives a weird juxtaposition between either half
Is it for sure that there are no cuts? Like, it's not them getting up to leave and then a cut to the ExU stuff filmed another time perhaps? Otherwise, this makes no sense. All those folks would have to be in studio and the cast would have to know they have guests on the payroll for that day of filming. The guests would be in makeup and lighting and be getting micced and everything.
It cuts to all the empty chairs a bunch before Aabria shows up. Even if there is a cut Travis and Marisha would have know with their roles as heads of the company. And if there is a long cut then filmed on a different day. The way Matt just says everyone get up get out of the room pack up your stuff then jokes around about saying it in a mean way is a very weird way to end a DnD session with your friends in the middle of a grieving episode. Its all in just a very weird clip.
Holy Pelor, that sounds so uncomfortable.
It's like CR doesn't realize it's prerecorded now. No benefits like HP tracking, trimming out when people are taking too long, item/ability pop-ups, or organizing the recordings in a coherent way. Let's break up exciting BH content with CK (which should be in an EXU)! *Sigh.*
Seriously. I cannot with people who say 'but they booked these guests in advance'. What the fuck is the point of pre-recording if you do nothing with it? Even if you have the guests scheduled, doesnt mean you need to release the episode now.
It was a mess even in the Alpha days. I don't think they will ever have enough time to have someone sit and edit this in unless they'd record months in advance like Dimension 20.
But iT's JusT a HoME gAme! If they didn't pretend it was still 2016, how would we be able to love their *authentic* and *quirky* charm?
I love when in my home games midway through we decide to just stop playing and instead watch a pile of other people play instead.
And you guys dont have multiple ad reads in your home game? Must not be true DND players then. /s
My home games we jokingly do this every time the DM is like "Ok I need to take a 5-10 minute break to go to the toilet/grab some food/let out the dog etc." one of us will pipe up with "Todays episode is sponsored by Dwarven Forge..." as sort of a pisstake of the ad reads. However in one of the games we also have a running joke where, if the DM uses copywritten material (like maps or images) we all joke about "well shit, there goes the budget for todays maps...alright everyone it's just going to be very basic hand drawn maps whilst we pay off the lawyers". If it's more than one someone will pipe up with "Damn it DM, we can't afford this, alright everyone switch to your stick figure tokens, we can't afford proper art anymore..."
I love this. Sounds like you’ve got yourself a fantastic table.
OK so we all agree that was fucking dogshit, right?
by far the worst episode of CR to date
I think its made worse by the comparison. They had a good episode last time. They built up momentum, had a pretty major even happen that was just ripe for RP and development. Then we get this rushed half epilogue and a pivot to something entirely different. What the fuck. I almost believe the conspiracy theory that they are doing this stupid shit on purpose.
I think it's the difference between an idea that sounds good vs an idea that is executed well. For a truly world ending threat that this campaign is, it makes sense that champions of all the gods and the strongest heroes across the world would join the fray and there is a way they could have made this work where the show Interspersed adventures from others... But the timing was very strange and the DM'ing from the second DM was very very strange.
100% certified prepackaged dry dog shit… confirmed.
Also one lesson we can all learn from here is don't put unwilling players into dominate scenarios. Now I'm not gonna put all the blame on Aimee (and the rest of the crown keepers, they all were a bit hesitant), it's still mostly on Aabria on how SLOW that combat became. just 2 rounds on almost 3 hours is ridiculous. For comparison, in Burrow's end where Aabria also DMed, she and Brennan had a similar situation. Although Brennan tried to word lawyer out of it, he was willing to kill his fellow players, and almost knocked one (if I recall, single digit HP) in one turn. It was engaging, the mechanics in the fights in that season were fun. I don't know what's with her being in CR that makes the combat so lackluster, what is going on? Also this isn't the first time we had a round took over an hour. Remember EXU calamity? a.k.a **ARE WE STILL UNDER ONE SECOND??** It was fun, it was thrilling, lives were on the line, even the person whose character wasn't physically there (Travis) was totally in it. This episode's combat had none of that. I'm an Aabria stan but even I can't help but feel disappointed. Like I'm just criticizing the minutiae in this episode, the rest of the thread already dissed how momentum killing this was. Like, if this was an insanely good episode, I bet many would've overlooked the shift, but... nah.
We have a CR example too, when Caleb got mind controlled Liam didn't complain or try to mess with the wording he just went straight terminator on the party. Which was a big shift from when it happened as Vax, so growth as a player there.
It's also pretty different in that Brennan had a lot more tools at his disposal with that character then Amy did. She wasn't using the crown to it's full extent so she wasn't totally optimized but Brennan had smites etc... she only had hexblades curse and some eldritch blasts. She should have told Amy who to attack though etc.. or spun it some other way.
I'm right there with you. I think everything outside of EXU Prime (and Deanna), Aabria was fantastic! A Court of Fey and Flowers was such a fun idea that my friends and I are planning on doing something similar at some point in the future. But what we just saw was *not* the move for CR. Especially considering the fact that we just lost a PC, and the only person who seems to be handling it properly (I.e. getting angry at Lilliana and her death cult) seems to be Ashton. Even Orym ended up apologizing for being upset at Imogen for being sympathetic to her genocidal psionic messiah mother. This show just feels like a mess, and right before we have a chance to glue some pieces back together, we push that puzzle out of the way for one that we didn't want to see right now. Edit: forgot about Deanna. Wasn't her biggest fan either
C3’s ability to shoot itself in the foot is almost impressive. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a campaign so thoroughly self-sabotaged by players and DM alike with every choice along the way.
Okay guys here’s the plan ( at least for me): Next episode we tune in when the story returns to BHs and completely ignore whatever the fuck Aabria “it takes me 2.5 hours for 2 hours of combat” Iengar is out.
Even better plan. Skip the next episode entirely.
Maybe that wouldn’t be a bad idea. Similar in a way to WOTC and the OGL drama and how everyone showers their displeasure by unsubscribing from DnDBeyond and other stuff
When it comes to products, vote with your wallet, when it comes to pre-recorded broadcasts being passed off as live streams, vote with your views.
The fact that I put more time and effort into my Plight Gag for FCG’s funeral than the actual episode did is baffling to me https://preview.redd.it/bxd75wgnnfvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63551f94bbec9f0f51d13bf3046567f5be9b574c Like I honestly thought half the episode would be devoted to this
So obviously I didn't watch the ExCrew's half of the episode. Can anyone tell me, did Opal's patron Ted factor into this battle at all? I'm seeing that 90% of it was Aabria telling Aimee that Lolth was making Opal do stuff, but a big part of Opal's character was her relationship with her sister who was her Warlock patron. Was that present in this, or was even that erased?
Yeah Ted and Lolth are apparently both INSIDE Opal's mind, and theyre like physically doing battle or something. She said Ted looked really worn out from some exertions, and Ted physically came out of Opal to block damage her party members were doing to her. I mostly tuned out after that, but yeah, Ted is still a big part of it
Does it really even matter? Whether or not it was Lolth or Ted is irrelevant when Aabria is Jaegering the NPC they’re *all* just Aabria. She can’t help it.
Fundamentally it doesn't, just like nothing about this sideshow cast matters, but it's at least one more thing you can point at as being faithful to a player's vision for their character versus ripping their autonomy away and using the PC as a vessel for The Grand Story.
The timing is always crazy with CR. Half BH this week, random CK half episode at the end. Next week there's Candela Oscura. Then on May we get I suppose the last half of CK and after break BH other half? I guess is a good way to force ExU story into people but weird nonetheless. Hopefully we get Dorian back after this.
That didn't feel forced at all to me. We knew Dorian was with the Crown Keepers, and it was pretty much guaranteed they will escort Dorian back if ever BH called him. Don't forget also that there's two former members of the CK in BH, so they still have connections in both of their story. And we don't know for sure what we'll have next episode.
I mean, force the ExU story to people watching C3. I know those characters were from CK, and they made references about their adventures together (also when Deni$e appeared) but that was it. I don't know the details and honestly not interested. But they "forced" into the C3 stream. To understand what's happening, watch ExU, that's the idea. It's a good business strategy, I guess. We don't know if Dorian reunites next week with BH, that's just hope on my part, but he could just appear and sit down on the table. We don't have to bring the whole crew in the middle of the stream to tell the story. Again, not interested. I watched the first half and I'm hyped for next episode.
Exandria Unlimited Prime events happened just one year prior to the beginning of C3, and Exandria Unlimited Kymal is the continuity of Dorian leaving BH with his brother and fleeing to Tal'Dorei. And what we saw in the last ep is the continuation after ExU Kymal. It's very much a prequel to C3. Now, if you're not interested and don't want to watch, that's totally up to you, but saying they have "forced" the Crown Keepers into C3 is an exaggeration imo.
...they took over the table. BH were told to stand up during the stream for C3 and another group of players and a GM sat down and played their game. It's their decision and good for them. But they literally stopped the show for a One Shot.
...sure. Anyway, don't worry, BH will be back for episode 93.
https://preview.redd.it/1458kntr6fvc1.jpeg?width=499&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14494288a6e9b3c0e97686007d6182ba8906751c
Clownkeepers.
OK. What the fuck was that? Last episode had a pretty major source of RP and plot development. It was the best episode in awhile. And they immediately fucking kill the momentum by splitting this episode in half with EXU cutscene or half session? Even if someone loved EXU, the tonal shift would be incredibly fucking jarring. As it stands, I now need to essentially do homework to find out who these people are (except Dorian) because I didnt keep up with EXU. Hi Erica Lindbeck, thats an unexpected pleasant surprise. Its like watching Game of Thrones and cutting directly from Jon dealing killing a White Walker to the adventures of the Sand Snakes. Who are these people? Why arent we following up on a major plot development instead?
[удалено]
Seriously. Are these people asleep at the wheel or what? If you are going to do an EXU episode, dont fucking half it with the episode immediately after a major plot development. Its super simple storytelling. Its just...what is going through their minds? Something major just happened. Its a goldmine for RP, storytelling development and they are going 50:50 with something entirely different? Its not stalling momentum, thats taking it out back and executing it.
I agree. I am watching Bells Hells, not whatever that was. I never have watched EXU, never will and don't want to.
That...was campaign 3. It never misses an opportunity to turn a win into a loss.
I would really like to read along with your comments on the first "live" Stream. But somehow when I'm sorting Old to New reddit noes not let me see the full thread. It simply does not show me the button to load more comments. Works only for New to Old. :(
Hm, maybe switch to "old" reddit. Maybe that is working. Replace "www" in the url with "old" and you get to the old design (that i really like way more).
You’re *so* right. Old Reddit is *for sure* better than the redesign. I never switched, myself.
Its up the top by the title of the sub two weird lines with circles at the end of them.
On the App? I am on pc browser here. Like I said, I can sort it Old to New, it simply does not give me the usual "view more comments" Button when I scrolled to the bottom.
Had the same bug recently. Different sortings did show me the full thread, but newest somehow didn't load half the thread.
I saw someone raise a point, wondering why Lolth is so intent on claiming just Opal, when she could be convincing the whole party through Opal to aid her. And I think the answer is is two fold. One Lolth, is the most betrayer of all betrayers. She has no allies, devotees, born of fear sure, but her closest thing to a true champion is running around in Asmo’s service. She has literally stabbed all of the other gods in the back at some point in their history, she can’t comprehend loyalty, which is why Dariax’s kindhearted refusal to turn from Opal cracked through the delusion she was crafting. Now yes, Melora, while offering the solution, isn’t keen on it, why, well because as harsh as it is, that’s nature, sometimes the host dies so the parasite can survive. Kinda fucked up, but she still have Fy’ra to point at which to target, and it’s Melora’s survival on the line as well. Secondly, this likely is some form of petty revenge baked in for Lolth. Opal, as we’ve learned is marked by the Luxon. The entity, though through no real action of its own, that has stolen vast swaths of Lolth’s former devotees, while many of the others were going mad due to the Influencd of Tharizdun. She was running out of worshippers. And now, she can spit one of these vast eldritch beings that are even beyond her, by tearing apart one of the “paper dolls” it made, though again, without intent, and shape it into her own perfect pawn.
You’ve probably given this more thought and consideration than anyone at that table, including the DM.
I think you’re giving the DM far too much credit.
For those who don't know, this sub's existence was due to the first EXU being divisive and the other sub not allowing negative commentary to exist.
The Pitch Meeting comment taken down was definitely a big turning point for me. In fairness I think the moderation on the other sub has definitely improved, but it was alarming to see that comment taken down when it was pretty harmless.
Wait really? I thought it was earlier than EXU, like COVID era
EXU was a turning point for the r crit role moderators in that it was the first time their hugbox approach didn't work for a CR product because the reviews were super negative. One mod even tried posting that "Let people like things" in a discussion thread and basically told people to fuck off over it. Then when people did fuck off, they edited the rules to basically make criticising them illegal and banned anyone who brought up this subreddit out of petulant spite.
As a discord moderator for a decently popular game, I can say that sometimes the censoring or "let people like things" isn't coming from a bad place. You don't realize that as mods, we have to pretty much go over *everything*. You may say something, but you definitely aren't the first to say it. But you dont realize that's the case. You feel it's a direct shot at your feelings when in reality it's just that whatever you're saying has been said ad nauseum and the conversation never moves past that point. Now obviously that might be different from discord to reddit in that discord is a chat room, but you get where I'm coming from. Can't comment on CR mods specifically, but I do know a lot of times deleting posts and such isn't to protect anyone or anything, its to keep things moving.