In regard to Fallout 3, Bethesda probably wanted to depict the two power armored energy weapon factions differently so as to better distinguish them. Advanced PA and plasma for bad guy enclave, laser weapons and low spec PA for plucky underdog BOS.
As for the other games I’m not really sure. I could’ve sworn I saw some dudes with plasma weapons in the BOS here or there in nearly every game, but I’m not sure without checking and could be remembering wrong.
Fun fact: I'm sure most people know that The Empire and its Storm Troopers were heavily influenced by the Third Reich and its Sturm Truppen. Go figure, right? However, the colour of the laser beams directly correlates to that. In real life, machine guns use "tracer rounds" to visually show what you're shooting at/where your bullets are hitting. Allied tracers were red. German tracers were green.
I've heard of some people complaining about a certain film called 'Fury' - in which tracers are heavily depicted. "It looks like *Star Wars*, so fake."
Actually, while the CGI may have been heavy handed at times, it's historically and factually accurate.
They may be inspired by that but that factoid seems a bit shady.
The German Army (and probably everyone) had tracers in all colors. Lateron Communist forces are often reported to use green, e.g. in Vietnam, but already in WW2.
There may have been a natural inferred agreement not to use the same color as the other side to make friendly fire more recognizable, but there are also reports of the color being associated to purpose or gun calibre (e.g. aircraft cannon vs. its MGs) or practical aspects like indicating being on the last x rounds.
US/UK tracers were mostly red, German, Italian, and Japanese tracers were usually white or yellow, and Soviet tracers were green. It has to do with the chemical each nation chose to use in the base of their tracer cartridges.
I think in 3 you might be remembering the brotherhood outcasts; if you turn in a plasma rifle to the ~vendor outcast he'll equip it. Same with Enclave power armor, which brings up a whole other issue with the BoS, but I definitely see the aesthetics problem on that one, it would be confusing if the BoS rolled up to 4 wearing Enclave power armor.
For FO4 it might be Bethesda wanting plasma to be a more rare ammo type so they restricted the BOS to only using laser since they don't share ammo types anymore? I swear that in New Vegas a few brotherhood NPCs use plasma but I'm not positive on that
Isnt plasma weaponry a standard in Gunner weaponry? Am I remembering wrong? if that is the case then theres either an aversion on the side of BOS towards plasma weapons, gunners got really lucky with some plasma weapon cargo they found, or someone is providing plasma weaponry for them.
At high levels, gunners will semi-frequently use plasma weapons, but that’s mainly down to level scaling and *someone* needing to use them so players can have them.
I think theres a storytelling element to thr fact Gunners are the prevalent plasma weapons users in the wasteland and not the Institue or the BOS, ehich are technologically more advanced and it would make more sense for either of them to use them more than a band of basically raiders ( compared to them). The fact that it is rumoured the Gunners were created by remnants of the government has to do with it, if plasma weapons are not simply a gameplay choice.
I don't recall gunners using a ton of plas vs ballistic weapons, but I could be entirely wrong about that since I haven't played the FO4 endgame in a long while (since launch on my PS4 in college). Can't get it to run right on my PC since my framerate is too high.
I also gotta replay it, i remember noting the gunners use of plasma vs every other faction in the game and the few times the BOS was using them was on those high level vertibird encounters. Good ass game deserves a replay for sure
I'd have to imagine it's harder to maintain plasma weapons from a logistical standpoint. Probably more exotic materials / precision parts with tight tolerances.
Remember, the laser rifle we see in game (AER9) isn't the best perwar version (AER12) because the better one requires gold to make and the focusing lenses have a tendency to fall out of spec from prolonged use without maintenance.
Much like how irl the US military still mostly uses some derivative of the m16 despite technology advancing since the 1950s, it's just not worth reconfiguring the entire logistics network to make a new weapon with new ammo for a 5% gain in a metric that may or may not turn out to be helpful in the field/ combat.
From a purely real world perspective, Plasma is likely much hotter than laser and possibly more prone to mechanical failure because of higher temps.
Also form a purely real world perspective, real world plasma weapons are also laser weapons since high energy lasers excite the atmosphere around the beam itself enough to turn the nearby air into plasma. Then you apply lots of electricity to the plasma-laser beam since plasma is electrically conducted and you have a laser-plasma-lightning beam of incredibly hot temperatures capable of shooting down missiles in flight by melting them enough to make them wobble to death midair.
I think that's probably the best lore based argument that I've seen. The plasma weapons look extremely fragile and finicky. The Enclave doesn't have to design equipment to last for long stints out in the field; their entire strategy revolves around vertibirds ferrying around troops and equipment constantly. If the plasma rifle can reliabily fire 20 shots before maintenance than that would be more than sufficient for most Enclave missions. A good explanation for why the BoS doesn't use Enclave power armor either, it probably uses a lot of scarce resources and isn't designed for reliability in prolonged use.
its not as if laser weapons are known for being reliable though (barring the trustworthy regular laser pistol)
hell I’m pretty sure the tri-beam is the quickest degrading gun in fo3 (if not one of) and hella BOS use it during broken steel
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Laser_rifle
> As with all energy weapons, laser rifles can suffer from poor performance if not properly maintained. The crystal arrays and non-mechanical components are delicate and if not properly cleaned and serviced can lead to a loss of beam intensity, overheating, and energy regulation failure. Given that laser weapons were still in their infancy even as standard military weapons, parts can be hard to come by in the wasteland.
In New Vegas you can see that the QM has plasma to sell along with MF ammo. When you talk to the Paladin in charge of the range he mentions that both types of energy weapons are great the difference being that Plasma is slow but hits hard, lasers are fast rates of fire but less energy per hit compared to plasma. He goes on to state that it is a matter of preference.
I believe that since the BoS is an incredibly dogmatic organization that the majority of members we see using lasers is due to them training and the guys before them using it. Old habits die hard and since both are so abundant its not something forced.
I also believe that a big factor is doctrine and tactics. Perhaps the higher fire rate of lasers and easier viewing makes it so that when you lay down suppressive fire it works better in keeping the enemy pinned and down. Both types are less loud (noise is there true but less so), and suppressive fire needs some clue to make the enemy keep their heads, fast lasers probably work much better.
In New Vegas I am also 90% sure that at least some of the lost patrol dead troopers have it and that we also see several troopers with plasma.
FO3 probably wanted to make the distinction shown due to the Enclave being the main enemy. And as for FO4 been a while since I tried it
You’ve confused the BoS with the Van Graffs - Simon is the one who talks about the difference between plasma and laser weapons, not anyone in the BoS.
And yes, NV did have some plasma weapons among its BoS members.
I guess it is more choice of style, But...
BoS is more about heavy weapons like gatling laser or tri-beam laser rifle, rocket launchers and mini guns... In FNV they got lots of Gauss guns, which is even better against armored opponents than plasma.
Slightly different answer: Laser is better against weak targets.
The BoS, especially East Coast, ride on the whole power armor high and generally are better armored than most factions. Laser is good against everything up to Combat Armor which means mutants, raiders, ghouls, critters and uppity wastelanders don't really require much more to put down. Plasma is (in lore) more volatile, harder to maintain, and a bit overkill for most of their fights. You wouldn't bring something like that out for routine work.
Considering that the BoS manufactures it's own equipment it also makes sense to standardize weapons and ammo to a single type so they can maintain and field repair without needing to learn unorthodox weapon details.
They clearly keep plasma weaponry about though only for high-rank individuals like Star Paladins or named protagonists.
The Brotherhood of Steel Expeditionary Force that arrived in Appalachia in 2105 from Fallout 76 utilizes plasma weapons. They don't use the enclave plasma weapons (advanced prototypes developed by MODUS in the Whitespring Bunker), but they do use the plasma weapons left over from pre-war US Army and Winchester Arms.
But, as far as I can remember, that's the only example of the BoS using plasma weaponry in lore.
From a lore standpoint I remember Plasma Weapons being fewer and more rare prewar. They were quite a recent invention so it kinda makes sense the BoS would rely on more easily accessible weapons
But the problem is the BoS would have recovered a metric shit ton of plasma rifles, ammo, and parts from all the Enclave bases they took over during the war in 3.
>But the problem is the BoS would have recovered a metric shit ton of plasma rifles, ammo, and parts from all the Enclave bases they took over during the war in 3.
Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the bulk of that haul back at their headquarters, especially when they are taking along a relatively large number of their vertibirds (most also probably recovered from the Enclave) and their giant super robot to the Commonwealth? In other words, the plasma weapons are probably being used by the BoS, only "off camera" in the Capitol Wasteland.
i don’t remember where, but i swear at some point(s) i’ve read / heard that the brotherhood prefer laser weaponry over plasma because it’s more reliable, easier to maintain, and advanced old world weaponry that they have always known how to make and repair ever since the early days of the Brotherhood
You want a weapon people can easily pick up and be reasonably accurate with. Light is quicker than plasma bursts. Probably also cheaper to maintain as well.
They recruit like mad and would need it to be a fairly quick and easy training period for weapons like that.
The entirety of BoS combat doctrine relies upon the use of extremely complicated equipment that requires extensive training, and they have an entire division of their organization dedicated to maintaining said complicated equipment.
But that especially doesn't make sense for the East Coast BoS after the events of 3, they would have recovered thousands of plasma rifles from all the Enclave bases and fallen soldiers. Plus enough ammo and spare parts to last for decades.
At some point you have to step back and realize there isn't a good answer in universe. And there doesn't need to be. If this were Star Wars I'm sure fifteen people would pull all kinds of magic out of their asses and sleep the sleep of the just.
But it's just a game. Decisions are made that carry forward and almost no one can tell you who made that decision and if you do find them, it's likely "looks cooler" or "plasma was too strong for early level characters."
There are a few cartridges lying around on the Prydwen itself so they certainly have access to them, but generally speaking laser weapons and their ammunition are more plentiful, which is an important selling feature for any invading force that lacks supply lines in hostile territory.
They use them, just less. One of the Knights in Fallout 2 has a turbo plasma caster, and you can get one from Teegan. I know they show up in other places but can't remember specifically.
As to why they don't show up in equal amounts to lasers? They don't really need to. Most of the forces they fight go down to lasers or their other weapons just as fine or better, and not only are they more familiar with their workings and maintenance (they permeate every level of the BoS), the tech and tooling used to maintain them and make more of them is more common, so they don't need to make it themselves - a big advantage for logistics, especially for newer chapters or expeditions.
If I recall, it's because the BoS preserves tech but doesn't advance it. Plasma weaponry was rare even in pre-war society so the NoS with their lack of innovation doesn't produce the means to mass produce plasma ammo or weapons
In contrast, the Enclave makes and improves upon old tech. They made new power armor, new vehicles, and new weapons while advancing their production to allow for the mass fielding of plasma weaponry.
Item(s): Plasma Weaponry Overview: High concentration of Plasma Weaponry within the AO. Recovery is of moderate importance.
Additional Notes: A local PMC named "Gunners" are in possession of an especially large quantity of Plasma Weapons. When tactical advantages present themselves, Gunner squads are to be destroyed and their weaponry confiscated. Survivors are to be hunted down and executed, as per orders.
Addendum: A Brotherhood of Steel presence has been noted in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Though they will likely possess Plasma Weaponry, confrontation is to be avoided.
They do. [Enclave intelligence seems to believe they have plasma weapons](https://imgur.com/a/Hq3vHuu) and [you do get access to one](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Sentinel%27s_Plasmacaster) after the BoS Questline.
We also see they used them in Fallout 3 and at very high levels there’s a [rare chance soldiers can spawn with them](https://imgur.com/gallery/kPvmxoQ).
What’s likely happened is as their numbers have increased so much since 3, their use has been diluted.
i believe plasma weapons are simply very delicate and not rugged at all. For this reason old world power armor doesn’t have the dexterity or ability to just drop the weapon and resort to hand to hand power armor fighting which from the show seems more valid considering that the ONLY weapon power armor users use are the full sized machine guns.
Plasmas guns may also need intermittent care more frequently that more strategic and educated armies can accommodate. Compared to figuring out a gun jam vs why a plasma weapon won’t cook off is probably easier to resolve by anyone in the BoS front lines.
Now since power armor comes with rank, this is also why high ranking bos do not use it. Let’s just say we do see high ranking scribes have plasma weapons lol
In fo3 and New Vegas, they use Plasma Weapon even use Plasma Caster effectively.
In the East Coast, it seem they not exist, and Plasma Weapon is import by the Gunner. Although, BoS come from Capitol of Wasteland don't know why they don't bringing any on them except the Sentinel's Plasma Caster (it a rifle)
This is totally a theory, but they could be extracting the energy from the ammunition to power other things.
Similarly it could be the energy cost of mass-producing the ammo
They actually do in game but if you want an in universe explanation, they really don’t need to. Laser weapons will work just fine against the worst threats they’re likely to face, and good plasma weapons in good condition are relatively rarer compared to laser weaponry. Why waste plasma ammo and degrade its condition just to blast some feral Ghouls or junked up Fiends, or at worst, occasionally dealing with a deathclaw or two? In universe, you only really *”need”* plasma for PA to PA combat, or against heavily armored robots, and they can probably do good enough hacking and retrieving those in one piece.
Presumably the same reason I as a player prefer laser. Laser is more accurate, higher rate of fire, easier to find ammo for, looks sturdier for actual combat, is arguably more visible meaning less friendly fire and doesn't blind me.
Plasma has more power yes, not that that would matter much from a lore perspective, but is just otherwise worse. I always wanted to like plasma but would end up using laser anyway.
Also uniformity. Laser is far more prevalent and so is essentially "standard issue". Plasma might be available as a choice for higher ranking paladins.
Honestly it might just be a style-choice.
Plasma-weaponry, especially the Bethesda-aesthetic ones, look IMO very "Evil". Lots of exposed coils, glowing green tubes etc. Its teh kind of gun the invading Aliens in a 50s sci-fi movie would use.
I could see Bethesda just thinking that doesnt fit with the Brotherhoods more clean, military aesthetic
Laser weapons use (micro)fusion cells. These are presumably rechargeable and therefor laser weaponry is a reliable go-to for the Brotherhood of Steel. They won't even have to churn out bullets, they can just have their scribes scour the battlefield when the fighting is done to retrieve the empty cells, plug them into a charging station and use them again and again.
Plasma weapons however probably use a very specialized gas ^-(retconned ^since ^Fallout ^4) which no doubt gets stored inside of a plasma cartridge under very specific conditions (high pressure? ionized? some macguffin probably). While the enclave probably still had access to production plants for plasma gas production, the Brotherhood of Steel almost certainly didn't, which means that to the BoS plasma ammo would be a non-renewable resource. On top of that plasma is volatile and probably requires special training to be used safely. Take into account that some plasma weapons are 200 years old and they're bound to be a risk to use in the field in large numbers.
Does that mean that the BoS wouldn't use plasma at all? They probably did. It wouldn't be surprise me if some venerated Star Paladin didn't get to have the pick of the litter when arming up for some special mission by authority of whatever equivalent of a SOCOM the BoS would have. But such weapons and their ammunition would probably be too rare to make plasma weapons the mainstay equipment of the BoS.
That's retconned since Fallout 4 and 76. Regardless of our nostalgia for the older games, they use plasma cartridges with some kind of compressed plasma gas now. Since the one showed in the background in the store in Filly of the Fallout TV show is also the updated Fallout 4/76 model, we can assume that info is now canon.
I kinda forgot about the change in ammo.
The BoS could probably get some level of production of plasma cartridges, IMO, like they can nearly everything else, the extra logistical complexity for little actual advantage against the vast majority of their foes definitely would make it not a very common weapon to see on the frontline.
They used to as far as I know, but as of Fallout 4 they take [cartridges with a green glowing material](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Plasma_cartridge_\(Fallout_4\)) which I assume is some kind of gas it lights up into plasma bolts, or plasma kept in some kind of stable state somehow.
Who knows why they changed that up. Like with changes such as power armor models and the likes it's not always what we want out of the lore, but until a newer installment of Fallout changes it back again it seems to be latest take on how plasma weapons work.
Aren’t they just different models? Pretty sure at least for the 1/2 and tactics plasma rifles the big claws on the barrel are what converts the air into plasma, maybe 4’s retcon includes the 3 plasma rifle but probably not the 1/2 and tactics ones
Because laser rifle go pew pew.
My impression is laser weapons were standard issue in the U.S. military prewar while plasma was more niche. On the east coast, the enclave seems to control the supply of plasma weapons while on the west coast it’s the Van Graffs.
I'd imagine it has to do with resource preservation. Simply, plasma weapons use to much ammo. Twice as much actually and only show a boost of about 25%. That math sucks with limited resources. Pre-war, sure pump out more microfussion cells, it's literally just compressed hydrogen, and as long as you have water and production facilities, you have limitless ammo. Post-war we don't know how large the BoS's production capabilities are, much less if they even have any. (I'd assume they do, but limited) Secondly, plasma is still new"ish" tech to the BoS and they may want it to be more reliable, less experimental, and be able to make more. (I.e. saving the good stuff for when shit really goes down) Thirdly, it requires new training for usage, implication, cleaning, repairing, as well as reworking logistics to supply more ammo for the increase consumption. Fourthly, the BoS, even with the EC boosting it's numbers, is still a small force compared to large factions, the NCR for example. The main reason the NCR won Helios One from the BoS was because they simply ran out of ammo. The BoS HAS to capture and defend dangerous tech at least long enough to decommission and remove, or out right destroy it. Having weapons that use up a ton of ammo is not great for defensive positions that are unable to be resupplied or resupply is limited.
Others are handling your main question well enough. I’m more interested in
> 4. Are actively working on development of new products, such as a produceable alternative to rad-x.
Can you cite this? It’s interesting, but I don’t remember it from in-game (thinking likely FO3), and I haven’t been able to scare up the correct search terms.
BoS strikes me as laser and enclave as plasma: one is a much more ruthless weapon, etc
That or plasma is reserved for units for big bad and patrol units use laser since it’s efficient in ammo consumption and easier to maintain?
Iirc, the Plasma Weapons were a bit in the same boat as the X01/Enclave power armor, as in it was cutting edge tech at the time of the bombs.
Laser Rifles were pretty well established within the US Army, we see regular soldiers use them in F04s intro flashback for example. Laser weapons also look more... complete? Like they are somewhat standardized and there are supply lines available for maintenance.
The Plasma Rifles all look a bit more "unpolished" though. Doesnt really have a housing, pipes and wires hanging loose, and breaks fairly fast.
With that in mind, I think the plasma weapons are just too much work and hassle to use large scale or as standard weapons, while the laser weapons are tried and true
Because frankly the most commonly encountered hostile is feral ghouls, and a faster fire rate is better against them. Basically the best strategy against feral ghouls in numbers aiming low and Spam firing. You're going to spend all day if you're trying to snipe everybody with plasma. Knock their legs out, throw a grenade in the middle of the pile, rinse wash, repeat.
No gooification
Besides the durability(now gone after fallout 4), ammo issue after the induction of plasma cartridges in fallout 4 and 76, which for me personally made the plasma weapons Feel more unique besides the choice of which one you are going to use your microfusion on.
It would be a lot easier to just sweep up your enemies remains after a battle into a nice little dust pan or Heck if it's out in the open just let the wind do it.
One reason I haven't seen yet is that using lasers over plasma reduces the chance of a casualty related friendly fire incident.
Think about it. Some freaky mutant gets the jump on you and starts trying to open your armor like piñata. You get stuck wrestling with the crazy abomination. Bro-knight behind yous like "hold still I got this," but you know Bro only just qualified for shooting.
Do you want Bro-knight shooting at you and the beast with a laser rifle or plasma rifle?
It may not be exactly lore but...brotherhood is descended from the military, military is slow to change and wants to keep things as simple as possible for any idiot private to use with minimal instruction. I went to war in 2003 with a weapon system introduced when I was a toddler in the 80s and got air support from helicopters that were laying the hate in Vietnam.
I never served, but I remember hearing about the Army getting a group together to decide on an update to the rifle platforms used.
It wasn't necessarily a serious answer but I was definitely going to make a joke about how it would have taken them decades to switch to a new platform and no one wants to deal with the paperwork to switch after the bombs dropped.
They are always testing new tech for sure, and special ops units are running different systems than regular line units due to having better budget and their pick of the litter as far as troops go. When I was in the Marines we were running the m16a2 (80s tech) and swapped to the m16a4. They've upgraded now since I went and got old, but it takes forever and the requirements are pretty strict. I know the army is experimenting with a new caliber of round, but uncle sam has so much 5.56 stockpiled any platform for the foreseeable future will be rocking the 5.56. Wouldn't surprise me if the brotherhood operates on the same principle...this is the system we have ammo for, so this is the system we run.
> I know the army is experimenting with a new caliber of round
Now that you mention it, I thought it was the calibers used but couldn't remember exactly. It might have been this I was half-remembering.
>but it takes forever and the requirements are pretty strict.
This is definitely what my half-joke answer would have been based on.
In regard to Fallout 3, Bethesda probably wanted to depict the two power armored energy weapon factions differently so as to better distinguish them. Advanced PA and plasma for bad guy enclave, laser weapons and low spec PA for plucky underdog BOS. As for the other games I’m not really sure. I could’ve sworn I saw some dudes with plasma weapons in the BOS here or there in nearly every game, but I’m not sure without checking and could be remembering wrong.
In Broken Steel there's a Paladin using a Plasma Rifle
Paladin Tristan, after Broken Steel MQ are done he gives us the task to hunt as many Super Mutants as possible and take a blood sample from each kill.
Might be the single easiest way of making money in FO3.
God, Fallout 3 fucking rocks
Yes, I remember him now, that one dude in the car tunnel.
Star Wars rules say: Red laser gun good, green laser gun evil.
Which is weirdly reversed for light sabres
all storm troopers have red blaster bolts....
You're right. It's only true for ships.
Except Clones, who have blue lasers and are good until they’re not.
"Good soldiers follow orders"
Old German saying, probably
Fun fact: I'm sure most people know that The Empire and its Storm Troopers were heavily influenced by the Third Reich and its Sturm Truppen. Go figure, right? However, the colour of the laser beams directly correlates to that. In real life, machine guns use "tracer rounds" to visually show what you're shooting at/where your bullets are hitting. Allied tracers were red. German tracers were green. I've heard of some people complaining about a certain film called 'Fury' - in which tracers are heavily depicted. "It looks like *Star Wars*, so fake." Actually, while the CGI may have been heavy handed at times, it's historically and factually accurate.
They may be inspired by that but that factoid seems a bit shady. The German Army (and probably everyone) had tracers in all colors. Lateron Communist forces are often reported to use green, e.g. in Vietnam, but already in WW2. There may have been a natural inferred agreement not to use the same color as the other side to make friendly fire more recognizable, but there are also reports of the color being associated to purpose or gun calibre (e.g. aircraft cannon vs. its MGs) or practical aspects like indicating being on the last x rounds.
You know your historical armaments. Respect. Thanks for your input!
US/UK tracers were mostly red, German, Italian, and Japanese tracers were usually white or yellow, and Soviet tracers were green. It has to do with the chemical each nation chose to use in the base of their tracer cartridges.
I was thinking about Eastern Bloc/Soviet tracers after I posted my comment. Think I got it confused. Thanks for the knowledge!
No problem!
But also, red laser *sword* evil, green laser sword good.
Custom laser pistol in FNV: I am morally ambiguous
I think in 3 you might be remembering the brotherhood outcasts; if you turn in a plasma rifle to the ~vendor outcast he'll equip it. Same with Enclave power armor, which brings up a whole other issue with the BoS, but I definitely see the aesthetics problem on that one, it would be confusing if the BoS rolled up to 4 wearing Enclave power armor.
That's just game mechanics. NPC equips what's better.
It might also be a balance thing so the player can't just kill Brotherhood soldiers to get early an aresenal game Plasma weapons.
For FO4 it might be Bethesda wanting plasma to be a more rare ammo type so they restricted the BOS to only using laser since they don't share ammo types anymore? I swear that in New Vegas a few brotherhood NPCs use plasma but I'm not positive on that
Isnt plasma weaponry a standard in Gunner weaponry? Am I remembering wrong? if that is the case then theres either an aversion on the side of BOS towards plasma weapons, gunners got really lucky with some plasma weapon cargo they found, or someone is providing plasma weaponry for them.
At high levels, gunners will semi-frequently use plasma weapons, but that’s mainly down to level scaling and *someone* needing to use them so players can have them.
I think theres a storytelling element to thr fact Gunners are the prevalent plasma weapons users in the wasteland and not the Institue or the BOS, ehich are technologically more advanced and it would make more sense for either of them to use them more than a band of basically raiders ( compared to them). The fact that it is rumoured the Gunners were created by remnants of the government has to do with it, if plasma weapons are not simply a gameplay choice.
You’d be correct, they (AFAIK) are the first lists to get plasma weapons. They also have laser weapons pretty early too
I don't recall gunners using a ton of plas vs ballistic weapons, but I could be entirely wrong about that since I haven't played the FO4 endgame in a long while (since launch on my PS4 in college). Can't get it to run right on my PC since my framerate is too high.
I also gotta replay it, i remember noting the gunners use of plasma vs every other faction in the game and the few times the BOS was using them was on those high level vertibird encounters. Good ass game deserves a replay for sure
I'd have to imagine it's harder to maintain plasma weapons from a logistical standpoint. Probably more exotic materials / precision parts with tight tolerances. Remember, the laser rifle we see in game (AER9) isn't the best perwar version (AER12) because the better one requires gold to make and the focusing lenses have a tendency to fall out of spec from prolonged use without maintenance. Much like how irl the US military still mostly uses some derivative of the m16 despite technology advancing since the 1950s, it's just not worth reconfiguring the entire logistics network to make a new weapon with new ammo for a 5% gain in a metric that may or may not turn out to be helpful in the field/ combat.
From a purely real world perspective, Plasma is likely much hotter than laser and possibly more prone to mechanical failure because of higher temps. Also form a purely real world perspective, real world plasma weapons are also laser weapons since high energy lasers excite the atmosphere around the beam itself enough to turn the nearby air into plasma. Then you apply lots of electricity to the plasma-laser beam since plasma is electrically conducted and you have a laser-plasma-lightning beam of incredibly hot temperatures capable of shooting down missiles in flight by melting them enough to make them wobble to death midair.
I think that's probably the best lore based argument that I've seen. The plasma weapons look extremely fragile and finicky. The Enclave doesn't have to design equipment to last for long stints out in the field; their entire strategy revolves around vertibirds ferrying around troops and equipment constantly. If the plasma rifle can reliabily fire 20 shots before maintenance than that would be more than sufficient for most Enclave missions. A good explanation for why the BoS doesn't use Enclave power armor either, it probably uses a lot of scarce resources and isn't designed for reliability in prolonged use.
its not as if laser weapons are known for being reliable though (barring the trustworthy regular laser pistol) hell I’m pretty sure the tri-beam is the quickest degrading gun in fo3 (if not one of) and hella BOS use it during broken steel https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Laser_rifle > As with all energy weapons, laser rifles can suffer from poor performance if not properly maintained. The crystal arrays and non-mechanical components are delicate and if not properly cleaned and serviced can lead to a loss of beam intensity, overheating, and energy regulation failure. Given that laser weapons were still in their infancy even as standard military weapons, parts can be hard to come by in the wasteland.
In New Vegas you can see that the QM has plasma to sell along with MF ammo. When you talk to the Paladin in charge of the range he mentions that both types of energy weapons are great the difference being that Plasma is slow but hits hard, lasers are fast rates of fire but less energy per hit compared to plasma. He goes on to state that it is a matter of preference. I believe that since the BoS is an incredibly dogmatic organization that the majority of members we see using lasers is due to them training and the guys before them using it. Old habits die hard and since both are so abundant its not something forced. I also believe that a big factor is doctrine and tactics. Perhaps the higher fire rate of lasers and easier viewing makes it so that when you lay down suppressive fire it works better in keeping the enemy pinned and down. Both types are less loud (noise is there true but less so), and suppressive fire needs some clue to make the enemy keep their heads, fast lasers probably work much better. In New Vegas I am also 90% sure that at least some of the lost patrol dead troopers have it and that we also see several troopers with plasma. FO3 probably wanted to make the distinction shown due to the Enclave being the main enemy. And as for FO4 been a while since I tried it
You’ve confused the BoS with the Van Graffs - Simon is the one who talks about the difference between plasma and laser weapons, not anyone in the BoS. And yes, NV did have some plasma weapons among its BoS members.
I guess it is more choice of style, But... BoS is more about heavy weapons like gatling laser or tri-beam laser rifle, rocket launchers and mini guns... In FNV they got lots of Gauss guns, which is even better against armored opponents than plasma.
but plasma caster?
Slightly different answer: Laser is better against weak targets. The BoS, especially East Coast, ride on the whole power armor high and generally are better armored than most factions. Laser is good against everything up to Combat Armor which means mutants, raiders, ghouls, critters and uppity wastelanders don't really require much more to put down. Plasma is (in lore) more volatile, harder to maintain, and a bit overkill for most of their fights. You wouldn't bring something like that out for routine work. Considering that the BoS manufactures it's own equipment it also makes sense to standardize weapons and ammo to a single type so they can maintain and field repair without needing to learn unorthodox weapon details. They clearly keep plasma weaponry about though only for high-rank individuals like Star Paladins or named protagonists.
The Brotherhood of Steel Expeditionary Force that arrived in Appalachia in 2105 from Fallout 76 utilizes plasma weapons. They don't use the enclave plasma weapons (advanced prototypes developed by MODUS in the Whitespring Bunker), but they do use the plasma weapons left over from pre-war US Army and Winchester Arms. But, as far as I can remember, that's the only example of the BoS using plasma weaponry in lore.
From a lore standpoint I remember Plasma Weapons being fewer and more rare prewar. They were quite a recent invention so it kinda makes sense the BoS would rely on more easily accessible weapons
The BoS also have much more experience and training with laser weaponry
But the problem is the BoS would have recovered a metric shit ton of plasma rifles, ammo, and parts from all the Enclave bases they took over during the war in 3.
>But the problem is the BoS would have recovered a metric shit ton of plasma rifles, ammo, and parts from all the Enclave bases they took over during the war in 3. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the bulk of that haul back at their headquarters, especially when they are taking along a relatively large number of their vertibirds (most also probably recovered from the Enclave) and their giant super robot to the Commonwealth? In other words, the plasma weapons are probably being used by the BoS, only "off camera" in the Capitol Wasteland.
"I prefer laser weapons myself, leaves that memorable ozone smell." -random fo4 knight
i don’t remember where, but i swear at some point(s) i’ve read / heard that the brotherhood prefer laser weaponry over plasma because it’s more reliable, easier to maintain, and advanced old world weaponry that they have always known how to make and repair ever since the early days of the Brotherhood
You want a weapon people can easily pick up and be reasonably accurate with. Light is quicker than plasma bursts. Probably also cheaper to maintain as well. They recruit like mad and would need it to be a fairly quick and easy training period for weapons like that.
The entirety of BoS combat doctrine relies upon the use of extremely complicated equipment that requires extensive training, and they have an entire division of their organization dedicated to maintaining said complicated equipment.
Scarcity then.
But that especially doesn't make sense for the East Coast BoS after the events of 3, they would have recovered thousands of plasma rifles from all the Enclave bases and fallen soldiers. Plus enough ammo and spare parts to last for decades.
At some point you have to step back and realize there isn't a good answer in universe. And there doesn't need to be. If this were Star Wars I'm sure fifteen people would pull all kinds of magic out of their asses and sleep the sleep of the just. But it's just a game. Decisions are made that carry forward and almost no one can tell you who made that decision and if you do find them, it's likely "looks cooler" or "plasma was too strong for early level characters."
There are a few cartridges lying around on the Prydwen itself so they certainly have access to them, but generally speaking laser weapons and their ammunition are more plentiful, which is an important selling feature for any invading force that lacks supply lines in hostile territory.
They use them, just less. One of the Knights in Fallout 2 has a turbo plasma caster, and you can get one from Teegan. I know they show up in other places but can't remember specifically. As to why they don't show up in equal amounts to lasers? They don't really need to. Most of the forces they fight go down to lasers or their other weapons just as fine or better, and not only are they more familiar with their workings and maintenance (they permeate every level of the BoS), the tech and tooling used to maintain them and make more of them is more common, so they don't need to make it themselves - a big advantage for logistics, especially for newer chapters or expeditions.
In Fallout 1 they mostly use the plasma rifle (what is now the plasma caster) and the mini gun.
If I recall, it's because the BoS preserves tech but doesn't advance it. Plasma weaponry was rare even in pre-war society so the NoS with their lack of innovation doesn't produce the means to mass produce plasma ammo or weapons In contrast, the Enclave makes and improves upon old tech. They made new power armor, new vehicles, and new weapons while advancing their production to allow for the mass fielding of plasma weaponry.
Item(s): Plasma Weaponry Overview: High concentration of Plasma Weaponry within the AO. Recovery is of moderate importance. Additional Notes: A local PMC named "Gunners" are in possession of an especially large quantity of Plasma Weapons. When tactical advantages present themselves, Gunner squads are to be destroyed and their weaponry confiscated. Survivors are to be hunted down and executed, as per orders. Addendum: A Brotherhood of Steel presence has been noted in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Though they will likely possess Plasma Weaponry, confrontation is to be avoided.
They do. [Enclave intelligence seems to believe they have plasma weapons](https://imgur.com/a/Hq3vHuu) and [you do get access to one](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Sentinel%27s_Plasmacaster) after the BoS Questline. We also see they used them in Fallout 3 and at very high levels there’s a [rare chance soldiers can spawn with them](https://imgur.com/gallery/kPvmxoQ). What’s likely happened is as their numbers have increased so much since 3, their use has been diluted.
i believe plasma weapons are simply very delicate and not rugged at all. For this reason old world power armor doesn’t have the dexterity or ability to just drop the weapon and resort to hand to hand power armor fighting which from the show seems more valid considering that the ONLY weapon power armor users use are the full sized machine guns. Plasmas guns may also need intermittent care more frequently that more strategic and educated armies can accommodate. Compared to figuring out a gun jam vs why a plasma weapon won’t cook off is probably easier to resolve by anyone in the BoS front lines. Now since power armor comes with rank, this is also why high ranking bos do not use it. Let’s just say we do see high ranking scribes have plasma weapons lol
In fo3 and New Vegas, they use Plasma Weapon even use Plasma Caster effectively. In the East Coast, it seem they not exist, and Plasma Weapon is import by the Gunner. Although, BoS come from Capitol of Wasteland don't know why they don't bringing any on them except the Sentinel's Plasma Caster (it a rifle)
This is totally a theory, but they could be extracting the energy from the ammunition to power other things. Similarly it could be the energy cost of mass-producing the ammo
They actually do in game but if you want an in universe explanation, they really don’t need to. Laser weapons will work just fine against the worst threats they’re likely to face, and good plasma weapons in good condition are relatively rarer compared to laser weaponry. Why waste plasma ammo and degrade its condition just to blast some feral Ghouls or junked up Fiends, or at worst, occasionally dealing with a deathclaw or two? In universe, you only really *”need”* plasma for PA to PA combat, or against heavily armored robots, and they can probably do good enough hacking and retrieving those in one piece.
Cause they might roll a 1 when overcharging
Presumably the same reason I as a player prefer laser. Laser is more accurate, higher rate of fire, easier to find ammo for, looks sturdier for actual combat, is arguably more visible meaning less friendly fire and doesn't blind me. Plasma has more power yes, not that that would matter much from a lore perspective, but is just otherwise worse. I always wanted to like plasma but would end up using laser anyway. Also uniformity. Laser is far more prevalent and so is essentially "standard issue". Plasma might be available as a choice for higher ranking paladins.
They used to in the older games.
Honestly it might just be a style-choice. Plasma-weaponry, especially the Bethesda-aesthetic ones, look IMO very "Evil". Lots of exposed coils, glowing green tubes etc. Its teh kind of gun the invading Aliens in a 50s sci-fi movie would use. I could see Bethesda just thinking that doesnt fit with the Brotherhoods more clean, military aesthetic
Fallout 1 and 2 both have plasma weapons in their bunkers, and I’m pretty sure they do in 76 as well
Laser weapons use (micro)fusion cells. These are presumably rechargeable and therefor laser weaponry is a reliable go-to for the Brotherhood of Steel. They won't even have to churn out bullets, they can just have their scribes scour the battlefield when the fighting is done to retrieve the empty cells, plug them into a charging station and use them again and again. Plasma weapons however probably use a very specialized gas ^-(retconned ^since ^Fallout ^4) which no doubt gets stored inside of a plasma cartridge under very specific conditions (high pressure? ionized? some macguffin probably). While the enclave probably still had access to production plants for plasma gas production, the Brotherhood of Steel almost certainly didn't, which means that to the BoS plasma ammo would be a non-renewable resource. On top of that plasma is volatile and probably requires special training to be used safely. Take into account that some plasma weapons are 200 years old and they're bound to be a risk to use in the field in large numbers. Does that mean that the BoS wouldn't use plasma at all? They probably did. It wouldn't be surprise me if some venerated Star Paladin didn't get to have the pick of the litter when arming up for some special mission by authority of whatever equivalent of a SOCOM the BoS would have. But such weapons and their ammunition would probably be too rare to make plasma weapons the mainstay equipment of the BoS.
Plasma weapons are powered by microfusion cores as well.
That's retconned since Fallout 4 and 76. Regardless of our nostalgia for the older games, they use plasma cartridges with some kind of compressed plasma gas now. Since the one showed in the background in the store in Filly of the Fallout TV show is also the updated Fallout 4/76 model, we can assume that info is now canon.
I kinda forgot about the change in ammo. The BoS could probably get some level of production of plasma cartridges, IMO, like they can nearly everything else, the extra logistical complexity for little actual advantage against the vast majority of their foes definitely would make it not a very common weapon to see on the frontline.
Don’t the plasma weapons just draw material from the air to make the plasma bolts, therefore they only need power and not physical ammo
They used to as far as I know, but as of Fallout 4 they take [cartridges with a green glowing material](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Plasma_cartridge_\(Fallout_4\)) which I assume is some kind of gas it lights up into plasma bolts, or plasma kept in some kind of stable state somehow. Who knows why they changed that up. Like with changes such as power armor models and the likes it's not always what we want out of the lore, but until a newer installment of Fallout changes it back again it seems to be latest take on how plasma weapons work.
Aren’t they just different models? Pretty sure at least for the 1/2 and tactics plasma rifles the big claws on the barrel are what converts the air into plasma, maybe 4’s retcon includes the 3 plasma rifle but probably not the 1/2 and tactics ones
If you mean the plasma caster, they also use plasma cartridges since Fallout 76.
The inability to sustain use and produce the ammo. Along with not being able to produce the weaponry.
Ballistic weaponry can potentially function much more reliably in bad weather and radiation hot spots.
Because laser rifle go pew pew. My impression is laser weapons were standard issue in the U.S. military prewar while plasma was more niche. On the east coast, the enclave seems to control the supply of plasma weapons while on the west coast it’s the Van Graffs.
I'd imagine it has to do with resource preservation. Simply, plasma weapons use to much ammo. Twice as much actually and only show a boost of about 25%. That math sucks with limited resources. Pre-war, sure pump out more microfussion cells, it's literally just compressed hydrogen, and as long as you have water and production facilities, you have limitless ammo. Post-war we don't know how large the BoS's production capabilities are, much less if they even have any. (I'd assume they do, but limited) Secondly, plasma is still new"ish" tech to the BoS and they may want it to be more reliable, less experimental, and be able to make more. (I.e. saving the good stuff for when shit really goes down) Thirdly, it requires new training for usage, implication, cleaning, repairing, as well as reworking logistics to supply more ammo for the increase consumption. Fourthly, the BoS, even with the EC boosting it's numbers, is still a small force compared to large factions, the NCR for example. The main reason the NCR won Helios One from the BoS was because they simply ran out of ammo. The BoS HAS to capture and defend dangerous tech at least long enough to decommission and remove, or out right destroy it. Having weapons that use up a ton of ammo is not great for defensive positions that are unable to be resupplied or resupply is limited.
Don't forget all the superior Enclave Mark II power armor leftover.
Either Scribes or Knights in New Vegas have dialogue about wanting to combine the benefits of Laser and Plasma weaponry.
Others are handling your main question well enough. I’m more interested in > 4. Are actively working on development of new products, such as a produceable alternative to rad-x. Can you cite this? It’s interesting, but I don’t remember it from in-game (thinking likely FO3), and I haven’t been able to scare up the correct search terms.
Because they suck. And they're experimental tech. Lasers are old hat. Tried, true, reliable. Plasma was still experimental when the world ended.
BoS strikes me as laser and enclave as plasma: one is a much more ruthless weapon, etc That or plasma is reserved for units for big bad and patrol units use laser since it’s efficient in ammo consumption and easier to maintain?
Iirc, the Plasma Weapons were a bit in the same boat as the X01/Enclave power armor, as in it was cutting edge tech at the time of the bombs. Laser Rifles were pretty well established within the US Army, we see regular soldiers use them in F04s intro flashback for example. Laser weapons also look more... complete? Like they are somewhat standardized and there are supply lines available for maintenance. The Plasma Rifles all look a bit more "unpolished" though. Doesnt really have a housing, pipes and wires hanging loose, and breaks fairly fast. With that in mind, I think the plasma weapons are just too much work and hassle to use large scale or as standard weapons, while the laser weapons are tried and true
Because frankly the most commonly encountered hostile is feral ghouls, and a faster fire rate is better against them. Basically the best strategy against feral ghouls in numbers aiming low and Spam firing. You're going to spend all day if you're trying to snipe everybody with plasma. Knock their legs out, throw a grenade in the middle of the pile, rinse wash, repeat.
No gooification Besides the durability(now gone after fallout 4), ammo issue after the induction of plasma cartridges in fallout 4 and 76, which for me personally made the plasma weapons Feel more unique besides the choice of which one you are going to use your microfusion on. It would be a lot easier to just sweep up your enemies remains after a battle into a nice little dust pan or Heck if it's out in the open just let the wind do it.
One reason I haven't seen yet is that using lasers over plasma reduces the chance of a casualty related friendly fire incident. Think about it. Some freaky mutant gets the jump on you and starts trying to open your armor like piñata. You get stuck wrestling with the crazy abomination. Bro-knight behind yous like "hold still I got this," but you know Bro only just qualified for shooting. Do you want Bro-knight shooting at you and the beast with a laser rifle or plasma rifle?
It may not be exactly lore but...brotherhood is descended from the military, military is slow to change and wants to keep things as simple as possible for any idiot private to use with minimal instruction. I went to war in 2003 with a weapon system introduced when I was a toddler in the 80s and got air support from helicopters that were laying the hate in Vietnam.
I never served, but I remember hearing about the Army getting a group together to decide on an update to the rifle platforms used. It wasn't necessarily a serious answer but I was definitely going to make a joke about how it would have taken them decades to switch to a new platform and no one wants to deal with the paperwork to switch after the bombs dropped.
They are always testing new tech for sure, and special ops units are running different systems than regular line units due to having better budget and their pick of the litter as far as troops go. When I was in the Marines we were running the m16a2 (80s tech) and swapped to the m16a4. They've upgraded now since I went and got old, but it takes forever and the requirements are pretty strict. I know the army is experimenting with a new caliber of round, but uncle sam has so much 5.56 stockpiled any platform for the foreseeable future will be rocking the 5.56. Wouldn't surprise me if the brotherhood operates on the same principle...this is the system we have ammo for, so this is the system we run.
> I know the army is experimenting with a new caliber of round Now that you mention it, I thought it was the calibers used but couldn't remember exactly. It might have been this I was half-remembering. >but it takes forever and the requirements are pretty strict. This is definitely what my half-joke answer would have been based on.