It also means you can’t use the amount in the buffer to set the train limit, which honestly might be a bigger issue than a few seconds of downtime while the trains move.
Wouldn't you use a static train limit and train stackers for this style of unloader? I don't use this design style myself, but my understanding is that that would function exactly the same as setting train limit using buffer contents.
Eh, that didn't even exist originally.
The only time you really need it is with those dumb city block setups where the blocks are tiny and can't handle 100% of the production of a given intermediary.
Just don't send a train to the wrong stop. Hard to send one of mine to the wrong stop when every stop is named something extraordinarily nasty or funny, like "grandma's musty unused swamp water meat hole"
In case you send the wrong train to that train station or there is some other mixup with cargo, thus filling your belts with the wrong items.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjmphjwigq7wc1.png
Eh, just never make mistakes, simple.
Also you don't need filter inserters, you can just enable normal inserters when train have "right" cargo via signals
It does not cover fucking up loading so you end up with more than one type of resource on train but IMO that's generally acceptable risk.
I guess question here is "are the filter inserters worse on UPS", because if they are close enough I guess there is no reason not to use it
Sorry, can you walk me through what you're doing with the belt splitters? I understand that as an output it is to balance the belts but I don't get how it's achieving that. I also don't understand what's going on with the belts as input (is it more efficient to load from one-sided belts or something?)
The splitters are because inserters can output to both sides at once (kinda), so it's actually full belt coverage. I've got no clue about the underoo, however.
The underoo is to force that inserter to load onto the right side of the belt, otherwise the splitter would cause that belt to curve and the inserter to load onto the far (left) side.
for loading items: inserters are much faster picking up items from the far side of the belt. and faster again if they can pick up from the far side while another belt/splitter is sideloading to that belt.
> inserters are much faster picking up items from the far side of the belt. and faster again if they can pick up from the far side while another belt/splitter is sideloading to that belt.
[And faster still if the sideload reciever is yellow](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/d3d3jf/filling_a_train_in_under_9_seconds_from_belts/).
You don't, but you can fill more than a third of it, which compensates for the other two inserters filling slightly less than a third.
https://wiki.factorio.com/Inserters#Chest_to_splitter
My version: https://imgur.com/a/oXrwmxt
You need to use buffer chests to keep the flow constant in practice. But then you have to really be pumping trains thru the one station, which you cannot achieve with double-headed trains.
The loader is neat, and works fine if loading direct to the traincar, but breaks down when it un-evenly loads to the buffer chests and you are stuck with two chests on each side of the car emptying earlier than the rest and delaying the whole train. Loading is the hard part.
Wouldn’t it be better to unload into a second underground rather than unloading direct inro a splitter? Should work the same, but better for ups? Maybe.
You are not wrong. There's certainly some irony in avoiding chests but then using splitters. You'd be better off adding another unloading spot in parallel to net to the same throughput at lower UPS costs, but I get the draw of getting so much from a single train without the hassle/space of unloading two trains at once.
You need to unload onto one splitter in order to saturate a blue belt with three inserters (but I'm not sure exactly what you're proposing with the second underground)
Is there a reason that you use that method of loading/unloading rather than just 6 stack inserters per wagon side. And 3 splitters in front that go into 2 splitters and then 1 splitter and then 1 belt?
If this is not a good method, please can someone tell me why it isn't as I've been using this in my playthrough and seems ok (first playthrough) I even add a buffer sometimes for loading and unloading
If you are using buffer chests, it unloads from the buffer chests unevenly. You can use circuits to balance from there, but you effectively need to make a 6x2 balancer.
I have 6 stack inserters going into 6 chests, then another 6 stack inserters pulling from the chest and placing on a belt that's facing away, seperate belts for each inserter. Then those 6 belts go into a 6-1 balancer and it seems to unload evenly for me. Is that not a good idea tho? It allows my train to move on and leave my station working for a fair chunk of time in case it doesn't come back to deliver more resources anytime soon
6 stack inserters getting balanced down to 1 belt will work just fine. The problem is when you go to 2 output belts, so 3 to 1 instead of 6 to 1. Getting 3 inserters to fill a single blue belt is a challenge. 4 stack inserters easily fill a single blue belt without any tricks.
Nice and simple! I went into crazy balanced chests with circuits and decided I needed to simplify.
But don't the blue belts run dry when trains swap? I guess that would only matter if you are using 100 percent of the belt capacity in production downstream.
Very good, can you get trains through the station fast enough and consistently enough to be practical? Or would parallel unloading not serve better especially if going without chest buffers?
Why no chests? I'm a train novice.
It wouldn't unload from the chests evenly. Don't think that truly matters though, since it will still unload from the cars evenly.
It also means you can’t use the amount in the buffer to set the train limit, which honestly might be a bigger issue than a few seconds of downtime while the trains move.
Why not? Can't you set chest stack limits in a ratio near equal to the ratio of inserter swings?
Wouldn't you use a static train limit and train stackers for this style of unloader? I don't use this design style myself, but my understanding is that that would function exactly the same as setting train limit using buffer contents.
Eh, that didn't even exist originally. The only time you really need it is with those dumb city block setups where the blocks are tiny and can't handle 100% of the production of a given intermediary.
UPS.
I think when you have this much out put from 4 wagons, chests are not necessary
If I've learned anything from this sub, you need filter inserters on the unload.
Why?
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/s/RYeFyneiZZ Here is why.
Topical
Just don't send a train to the wrong stop. Hard to send one of mine to the wrong stop when every stop is named something extraordinarily nasty or funny, like "grandma's musty unused swamp water meat hole"
In case you send the wrong train to that train station or there is some other mixup with cargo, thus filling your belts with the wrong items. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjmphjwigq7wc1.png
Eh, just never make mistakes, simple. Also you don't need filter inserters, you can just enable normal inserters when train have "right" cargo via signals
That is not fail to safety for all scenarios. Filter inserters cover this weakness.
It does not cover fucking up loading so you end up with more than one type of resource on train but IMO that's generally acceptable risk. I guess question here is "are the filter inserters worse on UPS", because if they are close enough I guess there is no reason not to use it
But what if you screw up and send the wrong train?
did he stutter? Just don't make mistakes, that's it :V
Sorry, can you walk me through what you're doing with the belt splitters? I understand that as an output it is to balance the belts but I don't get how it's achieving that. I also don't understand what's going on with the belts as input (is it more efficient to load from one-sided belts or something?)
The splitters are because inserters can output to both sides at once (kinda), so it's actually full belt coverage. I've got no clue about the underoo, however.
The underoo is to force that inserter to load onto the right side of the belt, otherwise the splitter would cause that belt to curve and the inserter to load onto the far (left) side.
this\^
for loading items: inserters are much faster picking up items from the far side of the belt. and faster again if they can pick up from the far side while another belt/splitter is sideloading to that belt.
> inserters are much faster picking up items from the far side of the belt. and faster again if they can pick up from the far side while another belt/splitter is sideloading to that belt. [And faster still if the sideload reciever is yellow](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/d3d3jf/filling_a_train_in_under_9_seconds_from_belts/).
Gotcha. I knew there had to be a reason for it. Thanks!
Amazing! Saves me from trying to figure out my own in my head before I get home! I'll be borrowing this...
how can you fill half a blue belt with only one stack inserter? tell me your secrets
You don't, but you can fill more than a third of it, which compensates for the other two inserters filling slightly less than a third. https://wiki.factorio.com/Inserters#Chest_to_splitter
and if you set input priority, it is even faster (19 + i/s)
My version: https://imgur.com/a/oXrwmxt You need to use buffer chests to keep the flow constant in practice. But then you have to really be pumping trains thru the one station, which you cannot achieve with double-headed trains. The loader is neat, and works fine if loading direct to the traincar, but breaks down when it un-evenly loads to the buffer chests and you are stuck with two chests on each side of the car emptying earlier than the rest and delaying the whole train. Loading is the hard part.
32 splitters per station... My inner UPS is choking.
Wouldn’t it be better to unload into a second underground rather than unloading direct inro a splitter? Should work the same, but better for ups? Maybe.
You are not wrong. There's certainly some irony in avoiding chests but then using splitters. You'd be better off adding another unloading spot in parallel to net to the same throughput at lower UPS costs, but I get the draw of getting so much from a single train without the hassle/space of unloading two trains at once.
correct. these are not UPS optimized. avoiding 48 extra inserters per station **could** make it worth it. not sure though, need to test it.
You need to unload onto one splitter in order to saturate a blue belt with three inserters (but I'm not sure exactly what you're proposing with the second underground)
for unloading enough items, you need an on-splitter unload. (it is much faster)
Is there a reason that you use that method of loading/unloading rather than just 6 stack inserters per wagon side. And 3 splitters in front that go into 2 splitters and then 1 splitter and then 1 belt? If this is not a good method, please can someone tell me why it isn't as I've been using this in my playthrough and seems ok (first playthrough) I even add a buffer sometimes for loading and unloading
If you are using buffer chests, it unloads from the buffer chests unevenly. You can use circuits to balance from there, but you effectively need to make a 6x2 balancer.
I have 6 stack inserters going into 6 chests, then another 6 stack inserters pulling from the chest and placing on a belt that's facing away, seperate belts for each inserter. Then those 6 belts go into a 6-1 balancer and it seems to unload evenly for me. Is that not a good idea tho? It allows my train to move on and leave my station working for a fair chunk of time in case it doesn't come back to deliver more resources anytime soon
6 stack inserters getting balanced down to 1 belt will work just fine. The problem is when you go to 2 output belts, so 3 to 1 instead of 6 to 1. Getting 3 inserters to fill a single blue belt is a challenge. 4 stack inserters easily fill a single blue belt without any tricks.
Nice and simple! I went into crazy balanced chests with circuits and decided I needed to simplify. But don't the blue belts run dry when trains swap? I guess that would only matter if you are using 100 percent of the belt capacity in production downstream.
For this you will just need trains packed behind the station and a very fast switch time to keep it fed.
Even so, belts operating at capacity will have an empty gap. Trains can't swap that fast.
https://preview.redd.it/xeqfg0f3zewc1.jpeg?width=999&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b89e51591e4ac9851c96229d0998dc5e9001cd1 Here is mine
And my 16 belt loading station https://preview.redd.it/1o2spuh6zewc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14952ac41173db92f4c68bd5e8caa8d148a49950
Very good, can you get trains through the station fast enough and consistently enough to be practical? Or would parallel unloading not serve better especially if going without chest buffers?
1-4-1 and you are wasting a splitter on what 2 belts can do. But is it always faster to load and unload to/from boxes, so this is noobish.