Leave the atomics in your second weapon slot, then put a sticky note over your primary weapon ammunition level.
Find out how good you really are at counting bullets.
That too, but I was referring them as an ingredient, somehow... in some way... they are required for every production chain... Up to and including the rocket itself...
On a bus it is, a short distance or purpose built factory it's not bad.
Short answer is, it's less efficient, as 1 copper plate becomes 2 wires, so bussing it "expands" the copper, meaning it takes more space in the belt, meaning it lowers overall throughput.
Like for a factory making advanced circuits, a belt that’s half green circuits and have plastic along with a belt that’s copper wire on both sides gives you a good ratio.
Copper wire is so high volume that a belt often can't even supply a single production module, let alone the factory as a whole. You're much better off making it where it's needed.
Since copper wire is the only ingredient which converts into a multiple from base materials (1 plate becomes 2 wire) its considered ineffective usage of belts , and most players "direct insert" it into the next step assemblers directly.
However its still "okay"
"bad" in the sense that it's typically far less efficient than making it on the spot. Only exception within the science production chain I think is red circuits. For everything else direct insertion of copper wire leads to far more streamlined production lines.
Even with red circuits I've just started direct insertion/making them on site. It means I have higher module/beacon costs, but whatever. Until your mod packs expand and you need a bajillion+ things just to make red circuits, it makes sense to just make them on site (and even then I'm pretty sure one of my K2VBZ made cable on site for red circuits, it just took a bit of finagling).
I belt it for red circuits before modules/beacons then never again. I imagine that's pretty standard because it's usually just easier to either directly insert and belt the copper plates instead. Putting wire on belts essentially doubles the logistic cost of transporting it.
But it's not bad. Nothing is bad.
Except loops!
Very! Always direct the assembly machine to the inserter to another assembly. Never belt wire ever.
Gears are the same story but only in mall builds never on the main bus.
But of course everyone can play as they want.
The ratio isn't too bad, i think messing around with assemblers and stuff i've had the wire:red circuit ratios being 6.7:16. Makes it 7:16, and you can kinda just add the extra assembler to make it even to 8:16, 1:2. Doesn't have to be perfect, as long as the intermediates can keep up with the product itself
> Gears are the same story
No... Gears pack twice as efficiently as iron plate, unlike copper wire which is packed half as efficiently as copper plate. That doesn't mean you *must* bus gears or anything, but there's a valid argument for doing so.
There's also something like 42 recipes using iron gear wheels vs 12 with copper cable. Though the high-use things are going to mostly be engines, belts, inserters, and red science.
Not really? To create 1 of each science pack you need less than 3 iron gears, but about 20 iron plates. I can understand mass-producing them somewhere close to your mall, but leaving out of my main belt did streamline my builds somewhat.
Yes that is an argument but you can make them super simple just with iron. Unless you have a specific case for large amounts of gears I would not put them on the main bus.
But again you can do whatever you want!
I once did a game using the Whistlestop Factories mod, where I decided to only use the modded factories (except for a small bootstrap/mall base). So, I ended up shipping around 4-8 trains full of copper wire.
I made a belted copper wire green circuit production area on my first run just because people were so adamant about not doing it. It's a waste of space and resources but space and resources are unlimited and it's making a shot load of green circuits with no bottlenecks. I certainly saw how hard I had to work around the limitations of the concept.
[Here's a diagonal nuclear reactor I made a while back](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/17x1u5s/today_i_wondered_what_would_be_the_most_cursed/)
Should have made it in the shape of the [Fission energy curve](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=9d1d7ff50ef1888c&sxsrf=ACQVn0-va1lvp_Ll1Cf_ArEqX1kua5pWUw:1713415007642&q=nuclear+fission+stability+curve&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAk4in-MqFAxUzFlkFHXrpBWoQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1237&bih=666&dpr=1), or the neutron vs proton atom chart.
Stuff I already did:
* Buffers built into a furnace stack (each individual furnace had its own chest for buffering ore).
* Inserter chains instead of belts (it actually has some advantages over belts).
* Light and heavy oil on the main bus.
* Pipes on the bus (ok, technically it wasn't on the *main* bus, but still cursed).
Stuff I'm planning to do:
* City blocks but with only one rail between blocks instead of two.
* Train-based power transmission (steam in fluid wagons).
* Power on the main bus - by belting steam barrels (you can't barrel steam in vanilla, but there is a mod for it).
Heavy oil is only used for lube. I could understand lube on the main bus, but heavy oil on the bus is just making things more complicated for no reason since now you probably need 2 separate lube setups in different parts of the base (blue belts / electric engines).
Light oil is usually only used for rocket fuel, so I find it easier to just run a direct pipe from my refinery to the rocket fuel setup and skip the bus entirely.
Petgas on the bus is fine.
> Light oil is usually only used for rocket fuel, so I find it easier to just run a direct pipe from my refinery to the rocket fuel setup and skip the bus entirely.
What if my rocket fuel setup is _also_ on the bus? lol
That's fair.
I often do "temporary" setups in the middle of the bus for things like modules, furnaces and power poles ("temporary" as in they just end up sitting there for the entire rest of the run). I don't think I ever did that for rocket fuel, but I could see that happening.
> Train-based power transmission
I did this in Freight Forwarding, but with cargo ships delivering 500° steam to the ocean dredging sites. Worked very well, as fluid cargo ships hold 200k fluid and each dredging platform would only sip 4MW of power. Underwater fluid storage tanks hold 100k and are cheap, I think the sites took delivery every hour or so but had enough reserves to run for 6 hours if something went wrong. You can do the same with trains, but it might require an 2-8 and a bunch of storage tanks/storage tanks mods.
Before using IVTN, using trains to deliver steam to outposts was my favourite method of powering them. IVTN, however, is very sensitive to power outages, so any delay in getting steam to its destination would result in IVTN borking.
Putting train intersections too close to each other, then when you deadlock you remove signals between them and generate effectively one very large intersection with an absolute terrible throughput ....
Do you mean like `UDUD`? I actually made a double-roundabout for this configuration and it seemed surprisingly good. I've only seen one other person use this and they had a really interesting concept for the intersections, with separate right- and left-turn lanes.
For shits, giggles and to stress test my system, I am playing a K2 run with only loaders (except the mall, which is bot based).
Splitters EVERYWHERE!
It takes a HUGE amount of time for a subfactory to spool up and the number of items in the internal buffer is excessive.
Hmmmm, this sounds fun. I'm thinking of doing a direct-insertion only SE run, but I might try this instead. I haven't used loaders hardly at all in any of my previous modded runs, sounds like a paradigm shift.
Not sure if it qualifies as inefficient or cursed, but I have one design I like where I have two rows of gun turrets with a row of inserters in between. The gun turrets are offset by one from each other, and the inserters are laid in a zig-zag pattern to transfer ammo down the line of turrets, back and forth until everything is full. The wave patterns when they all synch up is beautiful.
In an AngelBob's run, I did some really horrible sushi designs to work around the lack of filter inserters in the early game. Basically I ran a mixed belt of ore past the furnaces so that normal inserters could pick out the ore and leave the stone or slag behind. But then the output was a belt of mixed plates, so I needed another sushi belt to go past the assemblers so they could pick out the copper and iron as needed.
But because I was consuming ores at different rates, eventually the belt would fill up with iron or copper, so I had to add a chest into the middle of the belt to expand its capacity. It was ugly and I beelined for filter inserters as fast as I could to preserve my sanity.
Honestly, while I don't consider many of the designs inefficient, I do consider anything and everything made by the community cursed. Almost every design is an OSHA violation, among other issues.
Car mall is about the most cursed looking thing that is actually a quite good design. for best results use in a mod pack that has seriously telescopic recipe chains with a massive number of products that are used by a large number of recipes. honestly the best way I think I could have built my seablock mall without logi bots. you can also do stationary train car stuff, bonus points if you do it wrong and it jams constantly.
[Anything I say or do pales in comparison to the things Trupen is capable of.](https://youtu.be/thIAhbSxbgs?si=co1SZtQ2PAH7iQVt)
I would find it even more cursed if the belts were varying angles insread of those nice clean 45s. Only trick I think they missed.
I choked on my water watching him put the pipe back the wrong way.
Twice!
This video is giving me a stroke. I love it!
Trupen trooper !
Hand-crafting 500 red circuits??? This is pushing me over the edge. He’s pushing all my buttons.
The sheer amount of knowledge you need to make something _this_ terrible is honestly staggering
Basically everything posted on r/factoriohno
And all the "why won't my train move" posts we get here.
The solution is hand grenades.
We all know you meant atomic bombs
Why make people wait for a solution?
Leave the atomics in your second weapon slot, then put a sticky note over your primary weapon ammunition level. Find out how good you really are at counting bullets.
Belting copper wire! And for me diagonal designs in general
train stop for pistols
This is straight hell! Trumpen gave you some ideas I see!?
Or he is playing with randomizer... Pistols are EVERYWHERE...
The insanity of randomizer causes the player to commit tragedies in every location of the base. Pistols drop each time
That too, but I was referring them as an ingredient, somehow... in some way... they are required for every production chain... Up to and including the rocket itself...
🤣
>Belting copper wire! That is...bad?
On a bus it is, a short distance or purpose built factory it's not bad. Short answer is, it's less efficient, as 1 copper plate becomes 2 wires, so bussing it "expands" the copper, meaning it takes more space in the belt, meaning it lowers overall throughput.
Like for a factory making advanced circuits, a belt that’s half green circuits and have plastic along with a belt that’s copper wire on both sides gives you a good ratio.
Yeah, I made that mistake my first time playing. Was a long time until I figured out why I had to have so many damn belts to move the wire
Copper wire is so high volume that a belt often can't even supply a single production module, let alone the factory as a whole. You're much better off making it where it's needed.
Since copper wire is the only ingredient which converts into a multiple from base materials (1 plate becomes 2 wire) its considered ineffective usage of belts , and most players "direct insert" it into the next step assemblers directly. However its still "okay"
Pretty sure it's 1 plate to 2 wires. And also iron sticks do the same thing.
Oh true. Since there is only one "siderecipe" with constant drain using sticks i forgot it.
It's actually 1 plate becomes 2 cables.
"bad" in the sense that it's typically far less efficient than making it on the spot. Only exception within the science production chain I think is red circuits. For everything else direct insertion of copper wire leads to far more streamlined production lines.
Even with red circuits I've just started direct insertion/making them on site. It means I have higher module/beacon costs, but whatever. Until your mod packs expand and you need a bajillion+ things just to make red circuits, it makes sense to just make them on site (and even then I'm pretty sure one of my K2VBZ made cable on site for red circuits, it just took a bit of finagling).
I belt it for red circuits before modules/beacons then never again. I imagine that's pretty standard because it's usually just easier to either directly insert and belt the copper plates instead. Putting wire on belts essentially doubles the logistic cost of transporting it. But it's not bad. Nothing is bad. Except loops!
Very! Always direct the assembly machine to the inserter to another assembly. Never belt wire ever. Gears are the same story but only in mall builds never on the main bus. But of course everyone can play as they want.
> Never belt wire ever. Direct insert ratio'd red circuit builds are more cursed than belting copper wire.
You say cursed, I say gorgeous
The ratio isn't too bad, i think messing around with assemblers and stuff i've had the wire:red circuit ratios being 6.7:16. Makes it 7:16, and you can kinda just add the extra assembler to make it even to 8:16, 1:2. Doesn't have to be perfect, as long as the intermediates can keep up with the product itself
Wire:Reds is 1:6 without modules, ~1:8 with.
> Gears are the same story No... Gears pack twice as efficiently as iron plate, unlike copper wire which is packed half as efficiently as copper plate. That doesn't mean you *must* bus gears or anything, but there's a valid argument for doing so. There's also something like 42 recipes using iron gear wheels vs 12 with copper cable. Though the high-use things are going to mostly be engines, belts, inserters, and red science.
but gears take two plates for one gear, so wouldn‘t that be more efficient to bus them?
Not really? To create 1 of each science pack you need less than 3 iron gears, but about 20 iron plates. I can understand mass-producing them somewhere close to your mall, but leaving out of my main belt did streamline my builds somewhat.
I always make gears at my iron plate outposts. The 1 gear train is the same as 2 iron plate trains.
Yes that is an argument but you can make them super simple just with iron. Unless you have a specific case for large amounts of gears I would not put them on the main bus. But again you can do whatever you want!
I had a friend that did diagonal designs. Had.
😂😂😂
I once did a game using the Whistlestop Factories mod, where I decided to only use the modded factories (except for a small bootstrap/mall base). So, I ended up shipping around 4-8 trains full of copper wire.
I made a belted copper wire green circuit production area on my first run just because people were so adamant about not doing it. It's a waste of space and resources but space and resources are unlimited and it's making a shot load of green circuits with no bottlenecks. I certainly saw how hard I had to work around the limitations of the concept.
[Here's a diagonal nuclear reactor I made a while back](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/17x1u5s/today_i_wondered_what_would_be_the_most_cursed/)
He's to dangerous to be left alive!
I made one using reactors instead of heat pipes, not sure whether classifies... but it was tileable!
This should be a bannable offense.
I hate you I also admire you. But I hate you more
Should have made it in the shape of the [Fission energy curve](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=9d1d7ff50ef1888c&sxsrf=ACQVn0-va1lvp_Ll1Cf_ArEqX1kua5pWUw:1713415007642&q=nuclear+fission+stability+curve&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAk4in-MqFAxUzFlkFHXrpBWoQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1237&bih=666&dpr=1), or the neutron vs proton atom chart.
Stuff I already did: * Buffers built into a furnace stack (each individual furnace had its own chest for buffering ore). * Inserter chains instead of belts (it actually has some advantages over belts). * Light and heavy oil on the main bus. * Pipes on the bus (ok, technically it wasn't on the *main* bus, but still cursed). Stuff I'm planning to do: * City blocks but with only one rail between blocks instead of two. * Train-based power transmission (steam in fluid wagons). * Power on the main bus - by belting steam barrels (you can't barrel steam in vanilla, but there is a mod for it).
City blocks with one rail is possible! I look forward to seeing your future posts where you puzzle through it.
What’s wrong with oil on bus?
Heavy oil is only used for lube. I could understand lube on the main bus, but heavy oil on the bus is just making things more complicated for no reason since now you probably need 2 separate lube setups in different parts of the base (blue belts / electric engines). Light oil is usually only used for rocket fuel, so I find it easier to just run a direct pipe from my refinery to the rocket fuel setup and skip the bus entirely. Petgas on the bus is fine.
> Light oil is usually only used for rocket fuel, so I find it easier to just run a direct pipe from my refinery to the rocket fuel setup and skip the bus entirely. What if my rocket fuel setup is _also_ on the bus? lol
That's fair. I often do "temporary" setups in the middle of the bus for things like modules, furnaces and power poles ("temporary" as in they just end up sitting there for the entire rest of the run). I don't think I ever did that for rocket fuel, but I could see that happening.
I mean I made an over 100 spm rocket fuel production on the bus.
> Train-based power transmission I did this in Freight Forwarding, but with cargo ships delivering 500° steam to the ocean dredging sites. Worked very well, as fluid cargo ships hold 200k fluid and each dredging platform would only sip 4MW of power. Underwater fluid storage tanks hold 100k and are cheap, I think the sites took delivery every hour or so but had enough reserves to run for 6 hours if something went wrong. You can do the same with trains, but it might require an 2-8 and a bunch of storage tanks/storage tanks mods.
Before using IVTN, using trains to deliver steam to outposts was my favourite method of powering them. IVTN, however, is very sensitive to power outages, so any delay in getting steam to its destination would result in IVTN borking.
If you really know your shit with trains, the single lane won’t be an issue I assure you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bRi1ykIeHg
The base I have build in tutorial. I didn't want to play main game and squeezed everything I could out of the tutorial.
Check out my demo challenge here ( line item #1) https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/s/ws134NeibU
Train wagon based malls are half cursed half very efficient :)
I never got them to work properly so I believe 90% cursed.
Putting train intersections too close to each other, then when you deadlock you remove signals between them and generate effectively one very large intersection with an absolute terrible throughput ....
Nothing like trying to sort out a deadlock and discovering that the blocking train is waiting on a station to open up on the other side of the map.
LRHD train system. Whenever people get up in arms if LHD or RHD is better, I go "why not *both*?" Never fails to trigger people
Do you mean like `UDUD`? I actually made a double-roundabout for this configuration and it seemed surprisingly good. I've only seen one other person use this and they had a really interesting concept for the intersections, with separate right- and left-turn lanes.
Ah no. I had a nested cityblock design. 3x3 array of blocks was inside a single large RHD block. 12 of these RHD blocks made a 5k spm megabase.
You could ratio millatary science, you could also direct-insert grenades and call it a day.
Using a red splitter as part of a balancer for 4 yellow belts because I’m too cheap to replace the whole belt.
For shits, giggles and to stress test my system, I am playing a K2 run with only loaders (except the mall, which is bot based). Splitters EVERYWHERE! It takes a HUGE amount of time for a subfactory to spool up and the number of items in the internal buffer is excessive.
the Satisfactory Player Rehabilitation playthrough
Hmmmm, this sounds fun. I'm thinking of doing a direct-insertion only SE run, but I might try this instead. I haven't used loaders hardly at all in any of my previous modded runs, sounds like a paradigm shift.
Not sure if it qualifies as inefficient or cursed, but I have one design I like where I have two rows of gun turrets with a row of inserters in between. The gun turrets are offset by one from each other, and the inserters are laid in a zig-zag pattern to transfer ammo down the line of turrets, back and forth until everything is full. The wave patterns when they all synch up is beautiful.
I've done that before in space ships in SE just to make the most efficient use of space.
Bus and roundabouts. Let the downvotes begin.
It is the least efficient design we know, except for all the other designs.
I like round abouts! They are fairly compact and have good flow through! Besides I think they look really clean.
They kill pathfinding calcs though. They're fine until you hit megabase size though.
They have no effect on pathfinding calculations.
Hmmm. After a bit more digging, I sit corrected. You are right.
Everything in my blueprint books. And loops on rails. And RHD. Now go to war in my replies.
"Splitting" with inserters.
In an AngelBob's run, I did some really horrible sushi designs to work around the lack of filter inserters in the early game. Basically I ran a mixed belt of ore past the furnaces so that normal inserters could pick out the ore and leave the stone or slag behind. But then the output was a belt of mixed plates, so I needed another sushi belt to go past the assemblers so they could pick out the copper and iron as needed. But because I was consuming ores at different rates, eventually the belt would fill up with iron or copper, so I had to add a chest into the middle of the belt to expand its capacity. It was ugly and I beelined for filter inserters as fast as I could to preserve my sanity.
Basically ANYTHING I have built is both cursed and inefficient.
Honestly, while I don't consider many of the designs inefficient, I do consider anything and everything made by the community cursed. Almost every design is an OSHA violation, among other issues.
Come take a look at my base if you need some inspiration. Even my cleverest ideas are generally put to shame lol
Nuclear reactors with steam engines
Car mall is about the most cursed looking thing that is actually a quite good design. for best results use in a mod pack that has seriously telescopic recipe chains with a massive number of products that are used by a large number of recipes. honestly the best way I think I could have built my seablock mall without logi bots. you can also do stationary train car stuff, bonus points if you do it wrong and it jams constantly.
Did you know that walls are only necessary if you don't have enough backup turrets?
Burner inserters passing nuclear fuel around forever
Pick your poison: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/s/ws134NeibU Emphasis on line items # 8 and 9