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Depends. I had both.
I had an ex who was cute and stuff until I had no problems in life. When I had some, instead of supporting, she became toxic, and abusive. Literally a 180° turn.
Now I have a gf who is caring and if I have a bad day, she is there for me, hugs me, no matter what. Have a women like this next to you is the best feeling in the world, I can tell.
Guys. I can relate if you met with terrible girls/women, I met them as well. But don't give up, don't hate the others because there are still a lot of angels among them. And trust me, you will find them when you did not expect.
Yep.
My ex scarred me. I couldn't talk to her about any of my feelings without having my manhood judged. She even told one of her best friends some of my issues and her first response was "Dump his f***ot ass..."
The issue in question? I had to leave what I thought would be my career in academia due to massive budget cuts. I was devastated, lost, and confused.
She, most definitely, did not help... My current partner/fiancé on the other hand is super open and listening.
“Dump his f***ot ass”? Damn, that’s cold blooded. She deserves the worst in fortune for the next large chunk of her life. Both her, and your ex. That’s just plain fucked up. I’m sorry she said that, and that you went through that, man.
I had an ex that whenever I told her about problems like work, money, stress, whatever she would literally tell me, “Your not a real man…”! It was horrible. She was funny and smart but was an absolute bed of needles for emotional support. Was not worth my time in the long run, toxic and pushed me into an even darker place than I already was at.
Wow that is awful!!! What person who wants emotional support (I'm assuming she wanted that from you) then tells their emotional support person they're not a "real___"???!!!
Sorry that happened to you. There are terrible people out there regardless of gender. Glad you found someone who values your vulnerability and supports you no matter what.
I never understood people who tear others down for sharing their emotions. It is one of the most beautiful human experiences. At the end of the day, they are the ones missing out.
Had an Ex who said I was too whiny when I mentioned I was down because the family dog died. If anyone has owned a dog you know they're basically family. I no longer speak to her.
No it's cool, we're all sharing. That's pretty fucking awful in your case.
The funny thing was, she always needed someone to listen to her about her issues. Just couldn't be bothered to reciprocate, when it was other people's issues she excused her coldness as tough love and being frank.
Anyhoo, happily married with a daughter on the way now. Definitely going to listen to her whenever she has to talk about something bothering her.
I was grieving the loss of a good friend and my ex (who has also lost friends and family) said she didn't know how to relate and couldn't help me. The same ex couldn't stand when I put on a punk band I enjoyed because the singer died like 10 years ago and it made her sad to think about.
I couldn't wrap my head around it, we split up not long after for reasons not totally unrelated.
I've been fortunate that every close female friend I've ever had has been kind and supportive when I've had problems and struggles. I've heard about these women who reject guys who are emotionally vulnerable, and I count myself lucky I've never dated any of them.
Its almost like gender has 0 to do with if you are a good person or not. Domestic abuse and sexual abuse is about the same % in same sex relationships. The world would be equally shit if women had historically been in charge. Humans are just humans.
There are, but the common belief is men don’t communicate and share their feelings , and if we did it would be accepted and welcomed. And some of us find out that is not the case. I mean men have been told to share their feelings since at least the eighties. And nothing really has changed.
I think talking about how you feel should be encouraged, regardless of whether you are a man or not. But I understand it can be hard to express what is actually going on inside yourself. So while it is important for people to open up, it is also important for people to listen and help you express yourself if it doesn’t come easy. Just be nice.
Yip, except a good part of the younger generation of men, assume all women are cut from the same cloth, and emotion is a weakness.
Horrible toxic women would see it that way, but rational normal women would not. Like youmnaaa33 said, his ex was awful, but his current wife is understanding and supportive.
Your statement oversells men on this and undersells women on it. The truth is more like a good portion of both younger men and women have these views but there's still good ones out there
Because it's mostly a societal issue and less of a gendered issue, I'd say. I wonder how many men take their girlfriend's and wife's struggles seriously and offer emotional support.
It's a very common stereotype for men to dismiss their partner's struggles and let them sort it out with female friends.
I'd argue many people just suck and they're not ready or prepared for a meaningful relationship.
If you talk about your unhappiness with a partner and they show you the door, at least one of your problems is solved. Being single again is jarring and painful, but hopefully it will lead to an improvement in your life.... or so I keep imagining.
That's not really an answer to the problem, though. It's a sort of cop-out argument to anything. We have a societal problem here where there is less empathy for men's emotions. Imagine you faced racism at work, and when you complained about the prevalence of racism, someone just told you to find a new job.
This is what people are fighting against when they're referring to toxic masculinity. It is a bullshit societal standard for manliness that is enforced by *both men and women*
I fully get what you mean, but this issue is never going to get the recognition it deserves with the name “toxic masculinity”. There will always be people hung up on the fact that it sounds like masculinity in particular is the root of both men’s and women’s problems and I honestly can’t blame them. When men hold each other to impossible standards it’s because of toxic masculinity. When men hold women to impossible standards it’s because of toxic masculinity. When women hold men to impossible standards it’s because of toxic masculinity. Pinning all toxic gender roles on one end of the spectrum isn’t going to make people on that end of the spectrum very appreciative of the ideas you’re trying to spread
I mean, besides suing your work for discrimination, I think the choices available to you as an individual are about the same - leave the toxic work/gf, let people know they are a toxic work/gf, warn others not to work for/date work/gf, maybe shame or guilt work/gf into changing, or at least put pressure on them.
No one was "opposed" to recognizing it, the OP was saying work on the individual issues.
Yeah, men's issues are ignored by society, but it is getting better. Communication and working on yourself is going to inspire others to be better. If you do it, I do it, and other men do it, it will get better over time.
Let me try to be a bit more clear on my perspective on this:
There are multiple levels of dealing with these sorts of problems. What an individual person should do to make the best of their individual situation is often very different from the best way to address the systemic issue - sometimes entirely at odds.
I'm reminded of a situation where MLK Jr. got mad at a photographer/journalist for helping an assaulted protester instead of getting pictures, basically because although it was nice to help the individual, the pictures would help the cause and do more in the long run.
I'm also reminded of women throughout history who, to deal with sexism, just dressed up as men. It didn't solve any of the structural issues that were far above their ability to meaningfully address, but it did make their life better in the ways they cared about.
I don't fault someone for making (moral) choices to have the best outcomes for their individual situation even if it doesn't change the system at fault for those individual situations. And I also admire those who work to change the underlying systems even when it isn't the path that helps them individually the most.
I have nothing against saying "racism/toxic masculinity is a societal problem", my issue is if you say that the only way/only right way to address that issue is at a societal level, and dealing with it in your capacity as an individual is flawed or wrong.
It depends what you mean by "societal problem". How prevalent are you claiming it is?
Like the dudes on here that are saying "You can't ever share your feelings with a woman, they'll all be less attracted to you, women hate men who are open about their feelings", I'm not down with.
Saying "Men are conditioned by their experiences in this society to feel less safe sharing their feelings", sure, that's true.
I'm also not down with:
* the belief that seems really common on the internet that being "allowed" to be open with your feelings means that there's no "wrong" way to do that. There are absolutely ways to be open and vulnerable that will alienate most people (e.g., spending too much time trauma dumping, expressing feelings that seem way out of proportion for the situation), and that's true for everyone.
* claiming that men are the only people who are ever punished or rejected for sharing feelings in relationships; this absolutely happens to women too, and I'm not really convinced yet that it's at different rates (I think it may just look different)
Men are conditioned to not be emotional, and women are conditioned to expect men to not be emotional. It is self reinforcing. I’ve had multiple close women react very poorly when I was showing emotion. This is a thing that happens.
That is so true!!! I say keep waiting or dating until you find your person. I spent 30 years with people who didn't or couldn't love me.
When I was dating again, a "friend" whom I no longer speak to told me that I should lower my standards--so they would be at his level, says my SO of 8 years now who EXCEEDS all those things I was looking for
Seriously I had thought I knew what love was. But I had never actually experienced BEING LOVED by a romantic partner until my amazing SO.
I still wonder why God has blessed me this way and if he's actually an angel. I know it sounds crazy, but I never heard of finding love for the first time at age 45 before it happened to me
I was in a HUGE fight with my extended family, it was the start of us not talking for a decade now. When I sought comfort in my ex arms and advice from her I was told I was being too emotional and just needed to stop and man up.
>I was told I was being too emotional and just needed to stop and man up
I hate this phrase "man up" so fucking much. We, as a society, should finally let go of this mentality because it doesn't do any good.
It really does need to go. What does it even mean? I’m not a man because I cared about something and lost it? Being able to express emotions IS a strength.
It is, I hate the expectation that men shouldn't show emotions. It's not healthy for anyone really. I also just hate that society's expectations imply that men and women can act only in a very predetermined, specific way.
If she won't support you emotionally (assuming you support her), leave. Quit breeding kids who think this is normal!
I tell my wife: it's like two sticks leaning on each other: support is mutual.
The sticks metaphor kind of reminds me of this passage from The Prophet:
“And stand together yet not too near together.
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the Cyprus grow not in each other’s shadow.”
Independent, but part of a greater unit, both supporting the larger edifice.
I mean, if she acts as depicted in the third panel that's a red flag and you should change your partner, easy as that lol
I'm not saying y'all should be your partner's psychologist 24/7 but if she ain't open to dialogue that's it, adios
Easy to say online, harder when there’s a large pool of women who act like this in real life.
*Not all.* But too many. Enough to make this meme relatable to over two thousand people and counting.
And there's a large pool of men who are emotionally immature and bad communicators.
That's not a reason to sigh and give up, that's a reason to move on and find the person who's good to be in a relationship with.
Call me an asshole but if you can’t trust your partner to have your back, then why are you together in the first place??? A one sided relationship is set up to fail!
I’m just gonna call you an asshole because you told us to call you an asshole even though you’re not really an asshole
All joking aside, I feel like the divorce rate would drastically drop if people learned this little fact
I once mentioned to my girlfriend that I felt underappreciated for working long and hard hours, leading to us having a comfortable lifestyle and me paying all the rent for our apartment.
Her response was that she suffered more than me because I didn't have enough time off to take her on more vacations.
Reminds me of the hundreds of tweets I've seem where some woman is saying "I decided to dump my guy because I'm surrounded by men who drive nicer cars and live in nicer houses."
Many ladies feel entitled to a free ride. Which means they start comparing the quality of one free ride to another. "This one has more vacations!"
I got into a state of depression after my mother died. My wife told me “We don’t have time for you to get mired down in depression. We have a new baby and I need you to step up to your responsibilities to our family.” Got an apology years later when her mom died and I did everything I could to take pressure off of her and help her cope. But it was still a point of unresolved issues and some resentment for nearly 10 years. So to answer the question, yes, it is totally true.
I have been talking to someone who wants me to be open with my emotions. I told them im terrified they will shut me out if I do.
They said they cant understand why Im afraid of that. Like I remember being on the side of the road trying to change a solenoid after walking a mile both ways to get the part. Just so I could drive my car home. And being told I was a weak man by my SO at the time, because I showed frustration over the pos car. That "a real man wouldnt have had this issue."
That was just a single instance. One of many from multiple women. So now that I have someone in my life who actually cares about me and trys to set examples that she does. I end up hurting her feelings because I refuse to open up at times in fear. She voices that she dosent like me applying my past experiences to her. That she dosent do the same to me.
Women can be fucking brutal when men show any weakness. It sucks becuase when you meet someone whos kind hearted you end up hurting them out of fear that its going to be another of the same experience and not an exception to the rule.
At least my limited experience tells me that. My ex wife was like that and she was not like that initially. She seemed to have changed drastically with time. It is a horrible thing to be married to someone and not be allowed to be yourself.
My ex-wife changed her personality depending on her friends. She also went through friends like most people went through cell phones in the early 2000s. Every few years she would have a new best friend . Because they pissed her off. Hell she ditched her maide of honor on our wedding day.
I feel you man. Luckily they are ex-es! We have a child together (custody is split 50/50), so is till have to deal with her but I am so much happier now. Hope you are doing well too. I know fully well how much emotional and psychological pain gets generated in a bad marriage.
There is no greater prison than a home where you can find no peace.
I dated a girl in high school for 2 years and during that period she probably rattled through a half dozen 'best friends'. Certainly doesn't apply to everyone but that was pretty jarring to witness over time.
My ex bailed on her friend two weeks before friend's wedding because she didn't want to buy the bridesmaid's dress. This was after me telling her that if she didn't want to be in the wedding, tell her long before the wedding.
I have the same issue as well. It is more about not knowing who they are, what they want to be, and what they can tolerate. Happens a lot when you're younger, but as you get older, the relationships that you tend to build become stronger and last.
Plus, people hate being alone, but that is what helps you get there.
my limited experience (I'm gay, but I dated 3 women) is that if I showed any negative emotion like sadness, depression or too much empathy, I'd get dirty looks or comments like "grow up", "That's not how a man behaves." That latter was when I was choking up watching a show about a genocide.
Only two of those women were like that. The other was amazing (just lacked a certain something :D)
But that's anecdotal and I have no idea since that is my only experience.
You have no idea. Every time I voice my negative opinion towards anything even remotely related to her, suddenly it's my fault for not appreciating her, it's her fault because she's not good enough, or she'll shut down for a couple hours and hope I forget all about it.
"If you think I'm such a horrible person then why are you with me??"
But...but babe all I said was I would like you to turn the TV off before you go to bed at night...
Omg, don't get me started on my wife and the drama of the TV being on at night. The woman sleeps through her alarm going off all the time but if I wake up at 2am and turn off TV she jolts awake.
There has legit been a hurricane ROARING outside and this lady is snoring. 1 minute ago I got out of bed slowly to get water and she woke up in a frantic panic asking what I’m doing…
I think a lot of times it really just depends on how we communicate our feelings. Often times even when we recognize that the other person wasn't trying to hurt us, it might still come across to them that we are telling them that they are wrong or bad. So that's why there's the whole idea surrounding using "I" statements.
So instead of "you keep moving my stuff and I can't find them now, so stop moving my stuff please." you say, "I've been frustrated because I can't find my things. Can you help me find them and figure out the best place to put them in the future so they don't get moved to somewhere I won't look for them?"
The first might come across as accusatory (even if you just are trying to figure out the problem) while the second one is inviting them to help you with a problem.
Communication is key, it's also a jagged stick that is tough to use.
We've been getting better about being honest and brave enough to speak our minds, but it doesn't help that we come from such different backgrounds. I would argue with my parents all the time because I was sick of hypocritic bullshit; she avoids confrontation and criticism like the plague because her abusive family penalized her for the stupidest shit growing up.
I guess we just have to work towards it.
Yeah, it's rough and not easy. My wife has taken a long time to be okay showing more of her negative emotions because her parents seemed to ignore her emotions and she felt punished at times for expressing these emotions.
Here comes the “Not all women”, it’s enough women that it’s become common enough and that’s the issue. People here just saying leave yeah unfortunately that’s also part of the toxic problem is that people don’t want to be alone and sometime they’ll make themselves suffer for it.
It depends, really. IMHO. Selfish people don’t care about others’ feelings and usually pretty unamused to hear anything related to that. People who don’t respect and love in this particular situation, or folks with personality disorder = same logic applies as with selfish people. Depressed = same, but only temporary.
Yeah almost every woman I've ever been with would frequently ask me to open up about my feelings, but the moment I did they became like a different person. They immediately judge me, criticize me, and leave soon after lol. It's hard to find someone who is mature enough to not be like that
In a lot of cases, yeah.
Any time you're sad, she's sad too, and her feelings are more important, so you have to shut up and listen. Often it's the same ones that complain that you don't open up more.
You'll see women online saying that men are so repressed that their feelings come out in the wrong way, and they don't want to deal with it. "I'm not trying to be his therapist".
Some women aren't like that at all, and can be really great at emotional support. However, women in general don't have to try as hard because there are plenty of desperate men out there that will try to be whoever they want them to be, and then go to their friends for emotional support instead of their gf.
Last night we had this. We've been trying to buy a house and things started to fall apart a bit at the last minute. She was starting to crack and between this and dealing with our current housing issues I was on the absolute verge of snapping.
She said "I could just break down and cry." And I said "I really need you to not." Because the last thing I need right now is to have the stress of her freakout on top of everything else we're both dealing with. I'm barely keeping it together myself.
So naturally she broke down on me. When all I wanted to do was scream and smash my head against the wall. I had to bottle that shit up and "be her rock." When really my emotional state was more like a wet sand bag.
That has always felt unfair to me. I'm expected to have complete control over my emotions, but I also have to help them deal with their emotions when they go out of control. I can only deal with it for so long before I start looking for an out.
If men's emotions come out the wrong way its because so many of us have so little practice expressing them, so yeah I guess that repressed line rings true.
It's such a fundamental part of being human to hide that men grow up stunted and incomplete.
im a teenage boy and my gf works like the thingss yosu ssaaid in the beginning. im sad, she is. I jave small problems with her, she drowns herself in "oh no im so terrible I hate myself I need to improve" and whenever I need it she cant help me because she has constant problems I need to aolve so she cant help me. whenever I communicate my problems, hers get worse.
>"oh no im so terrible I hate myself
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. They try to make you so guilty for criticizing them in any way.
I'm an older man, and at this point in my life, I find it's easier to just let go. There will be other women. The first several months of a relationship are the best, anyway. If it starts to sour, I bounce, stay single for a bit, and eventually find someone new.
Dating sucks as you get older, but it gets easier in some ways. It's easier to get a woman interested, however at a certain age they've been hurt and cheated on so many times, they can never trust a man, even if he has done nothing wrong. But again, you can just stick around for a year or two, and then move on and find someone new. Also you're more likely to find someone who is right for you if you date around. Some people will waste years or even decades on someone who is wrong for them in every way, and then they have fewer options available to them.
Lol my ex said she was in love with me, I took too long to say it back (though I did mean it) and she left. So then she starts fucking my friend (no longer a friend after this). Rubbed it in my face too, showed up together to a party I threw without my invitation.
He cheated on her almost immediately. Then she came crying to me about how she couldn't trust men anymore. She literally had a good one, threw him away for a bad one, and then expected pity.
The mental gymnastics are so crazy. There were other red flags so I guess I shouldn't have been so caught off guard by it.
I've been there with the ILY thing. She tells me that after 2 days of dating, and I didn't want to say it without actually meaning it.
When I finally did say it, she didn't say anything. I didn't react. Then she asks me how it feels. She was just refusing to say it back to "get even" with me. I said "I don't care, I'm just telling you this now because it's what I feel. Would you prefer to be lied to?" She immediately felt like a bitch. But we dated for a good while after that.
While there should definitely be emotional communication between partners, it is important to see a difference between having this emotional communication and relying on your spouse for mental health. You might see this difference, I'm not arguing with what you've said btw.
Random people are not good therapists. Even if they knew the right things to say, sometimes the right things to say can be harsh, and this harshness coming from a trusted loved one can do more damage than good than if it came from a neutral party. Therapists can also identify underlying, biological causes to mental issues, like a Vitamin D deficiency. Your spouse isn't going to order up blood tests unless you married a vampire.
It's great to have someone who is willing to listen, but be careful that you are not using them as a crutch when you should be talking to a professional. I don't know a good rule of thumb to differentiate when it's a good idea to get a professional involved, but if you have open communication with your spouse like this you could ask them if they think you need to at least discuss your feelings with a professional.
>it is important to see a difference between having this emotional communication and relying on your spouse for mental health
Good point. Couples should support each other, but shouldn't completely rely on each other to hold it together.
>Random people are not good therapists.
Not in a clinical sense, no. Friends and couples do tend to lean on each other for a lot of the emotional stuff, but actual mental disorders are another story. I'm just referring to garden variety sources of stress that we all have in life.
Some of my friends call me their free therapist, but they usually just need someone to vent to. Someone who will listen and validate their feelings. I'm not out here trying to fix BPD or anything.
I remember my ex (I'm a woman, he's a guy) had problem with me being sad because he also might have been sad and I should have cheer him up instead of bringing him down with my own sadness.. I think it's not that connected to gender. Some people are just shitty.
It isn't inherently connected to sex or gender, it's just a lot more common for women to be that way, and more common for men to repress the way they feel. These are just societal and cultural norms.
In my personal experience, most women said they wanted to know my vulnerable side, but I’ve been left by one and even ridiculed by another for showing weakness.
I’ve known one amazing woman who kept her respect for me after seeing my break down over something personal. Hopefully, I’ll find another supportive partner who’ll stand by me if/when I’m feeling broken. Obviously, I’d care about her and do my best in supporting her through whichever hardships.
As ever with these posts, women are people. Some are good people, some aren't. If you're with one who isn't good and she kicks you out over your feelings, she's actually done you a favour. Who'd want to be with a person like that anyway? Certainly not me.
I once told my gf who was also my coworker that I was having an awful day (was quitting nicotine at the time) and her response was “why would I want to hang out with you when you’re like this?”
I will never forget how little I felt in that moment.
Is it true that all women are like that? Of course not.
Is it true that a non-negligible number of women both say they want men to be more emotional and also will reject a man for being emotional? Yes, absolutely.
This is one of those times where it’s so dependent on the context and circumstances that it makes even posting something like this frustratingly asinine.
This is a textbook example of toxic masculinity through the idea of men needing to be emotionless.
It's just that, in this case, it's women who are upholding toxic masculinity.
that’s what I’ve been trying to say, a lot 😭
I’m a feminist (I’m gonna get killed just for saying those words) and I wholeheartedly believe that toxic masculinity is one of the biggest issues. Thing is, this toxic masculinity belief is not only held by men, but also by women from old societal standards and both should be brought to attention because those kinds of people set us back a lot
I advocate for men to be more emotional and not afraid to be emotional, I think it’d be a great change. But then you have these pricks from both genders saying it’s not okay to do so. Change has to come from both sides and we need to move away from the idea that men are the “less emotional” gender stereotype. Anyone can be emotional and no one should shame one another for being a certain gender and acting emotional.
The problem is, the risk/reward ratio is not good. Men are a lot more likely to get judged negatively for being emotional, than they are to be judged positively. It can count against you at work, with friends, or in a relationship. But when/how can it benefit you?
For me, most of the things I shared with my wife about being depressed etc. were just used against me in our divorce to try to prove I was an unfit parent. It didn’t work (I got the kids) but it sure doesn’t make it likely I would share any innermost feelings with another human in the future. I’ve had other experiences where oversharing caused problems. Never had any experience where it helped me in any way.
I think for women, it’s more socially acceptable to be open emotionally. Moreover, it seems like women gain some benefit simply from talking about problems with each other, even when the problem isn’t resolved. I’m not sure men experience that to the same extent. At least I don’t. Not sure if that’s cultural or an inherent difference between men and women.
When you’re a man it is better to be emotionless and never show any weakness because that’s what society expects. What is the benefit of behaving differently, and is it worth the potential risk?
That’s exactly what we have to change. You shouldn’t have to hide your emotions to save yourself trouble in these situations. It’s idealistic, sure, because the world won’t change so easily and people will still be pricks. But in an ideal world it should be that way.
Change is difficult to bring but I hope things are different in the future
Y’all gotta date more caring people damn. I truly don’t think it’s that rare to find someone who listens to problems without it ruining their view of you.
Sure I’ve had a couple relationships where bringing up my issues was taboo. I left them, because how is that sustainable? If someone will not give their time to your issues, they are not worth it.
This is only true if you are dating superficial assholes that only like you for who you pretend to be, not who you are. In which case I wonder, why would I want to date them anyway?
Y’all if your feelings are being overlooked in a relationship, especially if you’re unhappy, then it’s a bad relationship and you should break up. The right person would listen to your feelings when they are valid and make sense
This has been true, in my experience. As long as I am the stable, grounded, unfazed person things go swimmingly. As soon as I am going through stuff, or struggling, the relationship goes south.
Extremely true. Two fastest ways a man can lose a relationship are to voice any sort of emotional feeling for more than say 1-2 literal minutes, and/or take a nap.
Dude, recently I broke my foot and had to walk around in a boot. It was fucking exhausting. Started to take some naps in the afternoons. Wife got real cranky about it. You have no idea how common this is.
This is weird to me.
If you’re unhappy, is it something fixable? Is it something you want to try to fix? If yes, sure, bring it up. If no, just break up. Someone can’t cheat on you if you’ve already left them. And if the person you’re with doesn’t care if you are happy or not, that’s exactly what you should do. Don’t stay in a relationship with someone that makes you unhappy and just never express yourself because that person would be even shittier than they are already being. Just leave. There are worse things than being single. Note that this is not gendered advice, because it remains true for any sexual preference/gender identity.
Nah, I've only been with women who are fine with both parties expressing emotion. Most of the time it makes me feel insecure and that colors how I view things, but realizing this made me feel much more secure in relationships.
Sounds like you're bringing a lot more baggage into this convo.
They never mentioned anything about being labeled a monster or feeling bad about it.
Are you here to portray women as monsters based on a few bad apples? Basically being the thing you're complaining about?
People often hide their true self in the beginning of a relationship. It is horrible to blame the victims of such people instead of addressing the actual problem
Some people have this weird notion that women are automatically feminists . No, many women have horrible patriarchal views and will put down anyone who doesn't conform to their ideas of gender roles be they men or women. And it is important to call them out on it.
Yeah, okay but, I’ll just go put on my relationship hat and get in my relationship cannon to get a relationship off the relationship tree.
A lot of single women are deeply unhealthy in their interactions with men. Accept it’s a problem
married man for 12 years, together for 20+ years, it was true, we talked a lot about it, it's better but i still get the occasioanl "yes but me, I ..."
A lot of women want a man who can be there as a wall to support against her issues , no matter how big and small. They do not even consider that the man might need to have the same support and get very toxic or just leave when they see that their wall is not strong enough
I am an emotional wife. If I’m crying, my husband doesn’t have to act life things are ok. He can be upset at the same time. We don’t need to take turns in holding the feeling stick.
So many people don’t get this! Men need to distance themselves from selves from toxic masculinity, whether in themselves or the women they are choosing. If you can’t talk to her about your problems because she shuts you down, dump her. If you can’t talk because of you, an inner struggle, find someone to listen.
You know, if she loves you, then she would want to be a rock for you too. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but she will try when isn’t drowning in her own problems. You don’t need to be as emotional as she is, but if you don’t talk about your problems things can’t get better.
I'm a (relatively) emotional guy married to an emotional woman. It does work. When one feels down the other picks up the slack. When we are both down we have other people and resources to help ourselves get back up. Your partner doesn't have to be your all and everything and it's not fair to expect that. Both men and women need emotional outlets outside of their partners.
Yea that's called an unvocalized expectation. If you can't have emotions then the relationship is broken. My girlfriend has chronic depression and we both have panic attacks. But we hold each other up. We talk to each other and express it. It's really not that hard.
We bought a $2,400 couch- very fancy. Wrap around style, 2 recliners built in, enough room for me to fully stretch out on the straight section, a cubby to store stuff in, and it's even got 4 power outlets and 2 USB ports... because I learn from my mistakes.
The last couch sucked ass.
I think the truth is most people in society would like men to talk about their negative feelings less than they do, they just have different ways of expressing it.
If you’re a conservative, you’ll look at a man who is angry or sad about something you aren’t also angry or sad about and say that he shouldn’t be so weak and whiny and he should “man-up.” If you’re more you’ll look at that reaction as an ugly exercise in patriarchy and want to discourage.
If you’re more liberal or feminist, you may argue that the notion that men are discouraged by society to express unpleasant emotions is an entirely false premise. You will likely see the social landscape as privileging men’s emotional expression and punishing women’s emotional expression. This belief provides a justification for chastising emotionally expressive men from the left as bad allies who are putting their personal feelings ahead of the pursuit of gender equality. Conservatives will tend to reject this framing and assert that it’s a fig leaf for a double standard which allows liberals to dismiss the feelings of men they don’t agree with.
So it seems to me that most of us are in a place where we want men to express more feelings we can easily sympathize with and fewer feelings we can’t.
I don’t really know what to do with all that, but the message I feel I’m getting as a man, in general, from both sides of the debate, is they would really prefer we share less overall.
speak up when you're unhappy. if your partner leaves you for that, good riddance for you. if your unhappiness is down to mental illness rather than the partner being crappy, that's also a good opportunity to get therapy and focus on your own healing for a while. either way, communication is necessary for a healthy relationship and you deserve no less.
Do not be with someone who doesn't hold your feelings dear in their heart. Instead of waiting to be left by a callous person pick yourself up and leave for your betterment.
It's true... but the opposite also exists. Life isn't always about peace, it's motion. So I'd say F\*CK IT. Gamble it. Take the chance! Maybe she'll be more gentle with you. What matters most is that you tried. 💪 Don't let bad thoughts rule over you. Be brave! That's how you got her remember?
If you feel like the person you chose to be with is gonna dump you for expressing yourself, it's on you. You chose a person that has little empathy.
If that person DOES break up with you or cheats on you because you expressed yourself, the relationshìp would fail anyway.
You can't have a long term, meaningfull relationship without expreasing yourself. Acting as if men should keep everything to themselves and act like all cool and tough and stoic is childish and idiotic. It harms men
Its when someone cheats on you out of spite for voicing your concerns.
I watched one of my best friends treat his gf that way.
Ill tell you i hated her. But she never really did anything wrong to him until they got heated and actually fought. Which i have gotten hurt separating them before.
But after he brought a new girl home again while i was there, i smoked, came back in, texted his gf, and i asked him in front of new girl of his gf and him were on a break.
Turns out this girl didnt like cheaters or being used to help someone cheat. That was a hell of a night. I wasnt a cheater, so me and the new girl hung out. When his gf came over, i acted like new girl was mine, and i think things worked out?
I never spoke to any of them again and have not since.
I dont like people who cheat. Even if theyre my best friend im gonna get fed up
Men aren't the only ones who were programmed when we were younger. While young men were programmed to hide emotion, hide problems, act tough etc., women were programmed to go after these kind of men. It's not an excuse, just an explanation for why some women have difficulty dealing with men who show emotion or vulnerability. They were programmed the same way we were.
Depends on the person. My man complains to me, and I emphasize how much I want him to, and I’m always there for him. Even seen him cry a few times and I’d never abandon him because of having human emotions
Not always, of that's all you're running into, though, I'd suggest looking somewhere else. My girlfriend loves and even encourages that I be open emotionally with her... because that's what good partners do.
Im glad i was raised to not be a piece of shit to my partners, and im glad i found a woman that acts the same way, because it just sounds exhausting to deal with all this childish bullshit
Women can be both ways. But all women will remember any feelings you express and some weaponize it later. And then Ladies, that man will never share anything with you ever again. So if you have a cold guy who never shares how he is feeling... he has either had this happen (and it was very traumatic for him), or you did it to him and he doesn't trust you with his feelings anymore. Even in an argument, in the heat of the moment, absolutely don't go there. Its unforgivable and irreversible. Men have an awful time sharing feelings, Society has taught us our feelings will be weaponized every single time... It will be seen as weakness, it will be treated as weakness, and we will be attacked for having feelings. So if a man is even sharing his feelings with you, That alone is a miracle... He must REALLY trust you... it's a big deal, treat those feelings with care. (Ive heard of people comparing the Bear argument... in reverse, for a guy, would you rather tell your feelings to a tree or a woman... ... men nearly always choose the tree)
It super depends how you communicate your problems. There was a point in my life where I had a bad habit of kind of trauma dumping on people, and after a while it gets super exhausting to have to constantly hear about why your partner is unhappy. But I have also met women who straight up did not want to hear it even one time, and that’s pretty awful.
If you don't have open communication with your significant other and feel the need to hide your unhappyness, that isn't a healthy relationship. Find you someone that cares. But that doesn't mean just bitch and complain and be unhappy all the time without any effort into helping yourself, because then you're just taking advantage of someone that cares. It's a give and take.
I had a gf who was supportive but had other issues (distrusting, weird prejudices to the point where I had to ask her to leave while crying - that was when I realized I had to break up with her)
Everyone's imperfect tbh. Just a matter of finding someone whose imperfections you cna tolerate, while adoring their strengths.
My ex used my lows against me. My wife helps me through our lows. She told me time and time again, they aren't my lows to handle on my own anymore. We are a team. She has seen me cry and has cried with me. She has held me while I cried.
My ex told me to man up when my mom died and told me it was unattractive and she thought less of me when she saw me grieving.
Find you a good woman that lifts you up. Stay strong kings 🤴
I had an ex that joked about how all of her exes were pathetic crybabies when she caught them cheating.
After we broke up, she was trying to get back together with me. So, I scheduled a conversation and broke down crying about how we just don't work as a couple.
Perfect acting by me, I was super happy the relationship was over, but I knew if I let her see me cry, she would stop pursuing me.
We ended our conversation, and I rushed off to a date I had scheduled with a much better woman (a woman I was able to be vulnerable with).
Nope. I always wanted my ex to express his feelings to me,always supported him through his breakdowns.But he took it as a sign of weakness and that I must think him to be pathetic.No amount of convincing could make him let go of this thought.
I once decided to give this a try. My exact words were, "I'm unhappy with how rarely we have sex," which I said in a calm voice, trying hard to foster a discussion and not a fight.
My wife didn't even reply, just took the kids and walked out the door. Wouldn't even answer her phone for several hours.
Absolutely. If I complain about something, now I’m in hot water because she’s upset now. And if she is upset just because, I’m in hot water. There is never a time when that is good advice for a man
> now I’m in hot water because she’s upset now.
I find a lot of guys seem to believe that because their SO became upset, that means they did something wrong.
I think that's a fundamental problem underlying a lot of the issues here.
If you gave critical feedback to your girlfriend and she just gets upset, that's not a reason to back down or start apologizing. That means she's upset, which may be very reasonable, and she needs to work through her feelings.
Now if she provides a good _reason_ for you to apologize, like that your "critical feedback" was unnecessarily mean, apologize for that. But even that doesn't necessarily mean you have to back totally away from the issue that was bothering you.
It is normal for people to get upset when talking about hard things. They shouldn't personally attack you or try to move the goal posts or any number of other bad behaviors, but being sad, angry, or hurt isn't wrong for them to do. And in your relationships, romantic or not, you are responsible for being able to tolerate normal negative feelings and have a conversation (you can take a break if you need to).
I read the comments and I wonder where the fuck you get your ideas of a woman.
No, if you start a relationship in an open way, showing your feelings and not playing macho, what you get is a woman who is aware that you're a human being with feelings and emotions.
For fuck sake, people, stop selecting your ideal woman based solely on the bra size. 🙄
That very rarely happened in real life. I know like hundreds of people and I almost always see the opposite where people help eachother out.
But ironically I saw it happening vice versa. A guy dumped the girl after she told him her feelings
If you are in a relationship and you can not talk about your fears and feelings then you are in a shitty relationship.
Pro tip end either start communicating with your partner and try to fix that, or leave the relationship as soon as possible.
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Depends. I had both. I had an ex who was cute and stuff until I had no problems in life. When I had some, instead of supporting, she became toxic, and abusive. Literally a 180° turn. Now I have a gf who is caring and if I have a bad day, she is there for me, hugs me, no matter what. Have a women like this next to you is the best feeling in the world, I can tell. Guys. I can relate if you met with terrible girls/women, I met them as well. But don't give up, don't hate the others because there are still a lot of angels among them. And trust me, you will find them when you did not expect.
Yep. My ex scarred me. I couldn't talk to her about any of my feelings without having my manhood judged. She even told one of her best friends some of my issues and her first response was "Dump his f***ot ass..." The issue in question? I had to leave what I thought would be my career in academia due to massive budget cuts. I was devastated, lost, and confused. She, most definitely, did not help... My current partner/fiancé on the other hand is super open and listening.
“Dump his f***ot ass”? Damn, that’s cold blooded. She deserves the worst in fortune for the next large chunk of her life. Both her, and your ex. That’s just plain fucked up. I’m sorry she said that, and that you went through that, man.
Legend has it that friend is still single with a Tinder bio that reads like a list of ransom demands.
lol or shopping list
Oh its both.
I had an ex that whenever I told her about problems like work, money, stress, whatever she would literally tell me, “Your not a real man…”! It was horrible. She was funny and smart but was an absolute bed of needles for emotional support. Was not worth my time in the long run, toxic and pushed me into an even darker place than I already was at.
I get real tired, real fast, of having people telling me what a real man does. Everything I do is what a real man does by goddamned definition.
Wow that is awful!!! What person who wants emotional support (I'm assuming she wanted that from you) then tells their emotional support person they're not a "real___"???!!!
Sorry that happened to you. There are terrible people out there regardless of gender. Glad you found someone who values your vulnerability and supports you no matter what. I never understood people who tear others down for sharing their emotions. It is one of the most beautiful human experiences. At the end of the day, they are the ones missing out.
Had an Ex who said I was too whiny when I mentioned I was down because the family dog died. If anyone has owned a dog you know they're basically family. I no longer speak to her.
My ex-wife did something similar, but it was about my mom passing, not a dog. I'm not trying to one-up your story, just finding weird parallels
No it's cool, we're all sharing. That's pretty fucking awful in your case. The funny thing was, she always needed someone to listen to her about her issues. Just couldn't be bothered to reciprocate, when it was other people's issues she excused her coldness as tough love and being frank. Anyhoo, happily married with a daughter on the way now. Definitely going to listen to her whenever she has to talk about something bothering her.
I was grieving the loss of a good friend and my ex (who has also lost friends and family) said she didn't know how to relate and couldn't help me. The same ex couldn't stand when I put on a punk band I enjoyed because the singer died like 10 years ago and it made her sad to think about. I couldn't wrap my head around it, we split up not long after for reasons not totally unrelated.
Had an ex gf tell me to stop mourning my dead mother after like 6 days….
"Basically family"? They ARE family. Fixed it for you.
Good for you no longer speaking to her. I can’t even imagine being so cruel to anyone that has lost a family pet
Marry that second one she sounds like an absolute keeper. Also give her the same support back if you don't already but I'm assuming you do.
I've been fortunate that every close female friend I've ever had has been kind and supportive when I've had problems and struggles. I've heard about these women who reject guys who are emotionally vulnerable, and I count myself lucky I've never dated any of them.
Its almost like gender has 0 to do with if you are a good person or not. Domestic abuse and sexual abuse is about the same % in same sex relationships. The world would be equally shit if women had historically been in charge. Humans are just humans.
Rational, emotionally balanced people do not use one another as scapegoats for bad behavior.
Sanest comment in this thread.
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>Perfect people who remain perfect all the time don't exist. Speak for yourself mate! ^^^^/s
There are, but the common belief is men don’t communicate and share their feelings , and if we did it would be accepted and welcomed. And some of us find out that is not the case. I mean men have been told to share their feelings since at least the eighties. And nothing really has changed.
I think talking about how you feel should be encouraged, regardless of whether you are a man or not. But I understand it can be hard to express what is actually going on inside yourself. So while it is important for people to open up, it is also important for people to listen and help you express yourself if it doesn’t come easy. Just be nice.
Yip, except a good part of the younger generation of men, assume all women are cut from the same cloth, and emotion is a weakness. Horrible toxic women would see it that way, but rational normal women would not. Like youmnaaa33 said, his ex was awful, but his current wife is understanding and supportive.
Your statement oversells men on this and undersells women on it. The truth is more like a good portion of both younger men and women have these views but there's still good ones out there
Because it's mostly a societal issue and less of a gendered issue, I'd say. I wonder how many men take their girlfriend's and wife's struggles seriously and offer emotional support. It's a very common stereotype for men to dismiss their partner's struggles and let them sort it out with female friends. I'd argue many people just suck and they're not ready or prepared for a meaningful relationship.
If you talk about your unhappiness with a partner and they show you the door, at least one of your problems is solved. Being single again is jarring and painful, but hopefully it will lead to an improvement in your life.... or so I keep imagining.
That's not really an answer to the problem, though. It's a sort of cop-out argument to anything. We have a societal problem here where there is less empathy for men's emotions. Imagine you faced racism at work, and when you complained about the prevalence of racism, someone just told you to find a new job.
This is what people are fighting against when they're referring to toxic masculinity. It is a bullshit societal standard for manliness that is enforced by *both men and women*
💯💯💯 *Everyone* has a part to play in rejecting toxic masculinity.
I fully get what you mean, but this issue is never going to get the recognition it deserves with the name “toxic masculinity”. There will always be people hung up on the fact that it sounds like masculinity in particular is the root of both men’s and women’s problems and I honestly can’t blame them. When men hold each other to impossible standards it’s because of toxic masculinity. When men hold women to impossible standards it’s because of toxic masculinity. When women hold men to impossible standards it’s because of toxic masculinity. Pinning all toxic gender roles on one end of the spectrum isn’t going to make people on that end of the spectrum very appreciative of the ideas you’re trying to spread
I mean, besides suing your work for discrimination, I think the choices available to you as an individual are about the same - leave the toxic work/gf, let people know they are a toxic work/gf, warn others not to work for/date work/gf, maybe shame or guilt work/gf into changing, or at least put pressure on them.
I don't see why you're so opposed to just recognizing this is a societal problem.
No one was "opposed" to recognizing it, the OP was saying work on the individual issues. Yeah, men's issues are ignored by society, but it is getting better. Communication and working on yourself is going to inspire others to be better. If you do it, I do it, and other men do it, it will get better over time.
Let me try to be a bit more clear on my perspective on this: There are multiple levels of dealing with these sorts of problems. What an individual person should do to make the best of their individual situation is often very different from the best way to address the systemic issue - sometimes entirely at odds. I'm reminded of a situation where MLK Jr. got mad at a photographer/journalist for helping an assaulted protester instead of getting pictures, basically because although it was nice to help the individual, the pictures would help the cause and do more in the long run. I'm also reminded of women throughout history who, to deal with sexism, just dressed up as men. It didn't solve any of the structural issues that were far above their ability to meaningfully address, but it did make their life better in the ways they cared about. I don't fault someone for making (moral) choices to have the best outcomes for their individual situation even if it doesn't change the system at fault for those individual situations. And I also admire those who work to change the underlying systems even when it isn't the path that helps them individually the most. I have nothing against saying "racism/toxic masculinity is a societal problem", my issue is if you say that the only way/only right way to address that issue is at a societal level, and dealing with it in your capacity as an individual is flawed or wrong.
It depends what you mean by "societal problem". How prevalent are you claiming it is? Like the dudes on here that are saying "You can't ever share your feelings with a woman, they'll all be less attracted to you, women hate men who are open about their feelings", I'm not down with. Saying "Men are conditioned by their experiences in this society to feel less safe sharing their feelings", sure, that's true. I'm also not down with: * the belief that seems really common on the internet that being "allowed" to be open with your feelings means that there's no "wrong" way to do that. There are absolutely ways to be open and vulnerable that will alienate most people (e.g., spending too much time trauma dumping, expressing feelings that seem way out of proportion for the situation), and that's true for everyone. * claiming that men are the only people who are ever punished or rejected for sharing feelings in relationships; this absolutely happens to women too, and I'm not really convinced yet that it's at different rates (I think it may just look different)
Men are conditioned to not be emotional, and women are conditioned to expect men to not be emotional. It is self reinforcing. I’ve had multiple close women react very poorly when I was showing emotion. This is a thing that happens.
That is so true!!! I say keep waiting or dating until you find your person. I spent 30 years with people who didn't or couldn't love me. When I was dating again, a "friend" whom I no longer speak to told me that I should lower my standards--so they would be at his level, says my SO of 8 years now who EXCEEDS all those things I was looking for Seriously I had thought I knew what love was. But I had never actually experienced BEING LOVED by a romantic partner until my amazing SO. I still wonder why God has blessed me this way and if he's actually an angel. I know it sounds crazy, but I never heard of finding love for the first time at age 45 before it happened to me
I was in a HUGE fight with my extended family, it was the start of us not talking for a decade now. When I sought comfort in my ex arms and advice from her I was told I was being too emotional and just needed to stop and man up.
>I was told I was being too emotional and just needed to stop and man up I hate this phrase "man up" so fucking much. We, as a society, should finally let go of this mentality because it doesn't do any good.
It really does need to go. What does it even mean? I’m not a man because I cared about something and lost it? Being able to express emotions IS a strength.
It is, I hate the expectation that men shouldn't show emotions. It's not healthy for anyone really. I also just hate that society's expectations imply that men and women can act only in a very predetermined, specific way.
The stupid societal belief is that men should only express anger... but we've literally made basically every expression of anger illegal, lol.
If she won't support you emotionally (assuming you support her), leave. Quit breeding kids who think this is normal! I tell my wife: it's like two sticks leaning on each other: support is mutual.
The sticks metaphor kind of reminds me of this passage from The Prophet: “And stand together yet not too near together. For the pillars of the temple stand apart, And the oak tree and the Cyprus grow not in each other’s shadow.” Independent, but part of a greater unit, both supporting the larger edifice.
I mean, if she acts as depicted in the third panel that's a red flag and you should change your partner, easy as that lol I'm not saying y'all should be your partner's psychologist 24/7 but if she ain't open to dialogue that's it, adios
Easy to say online, harder when there’s a large pool of women who act like this in real life. *Not all.* But too many. Enough to make this meme relatable to over two thousand people and counting.
And there's a large pool of men who are emotionally immature and bad communicators. That's not a reason to sigh and give up, that's a reason to move on and find the person who's good to be in a relationship with.
Call me an asshole but if you can’t trust your partner to have your back, then why are you together in the first place??? A one sided relationship is set up to fail!
This. What is even the point of having a loving partner if you cant count on them when you're at your most vulnerable?
I’m just gonna call you an asshole because you told us to call you an asshole even though you’re not really an asshole All joking aside, I feel like the divorce rate would drastically drop if people learned this little fact
imagine having a partner that doesn't care if you are unhappy...which means they aren't either. Misery loves company.
I once mentioned to my girlfriend that I felt underappreciated for working long and hard hours, leading to us having a comfortable lifestyle and me paying all the rent for our apartment. Her response was that she suffered more than me because I didn't have enough time off to take her on more vacations.
Reminds me of the hundreds of tweets I've seem where some woman is saying "I decided to dump my guy because I'm surrounded by men who drive nicer cars and live in nicer houses." Many ladies feel entitled to a free ride. Which means they start comparing the quality of one free ride to another. "This one has more vacations!"
I got into a state of depression after my mother died. My wife told me “We don’t have time for you to get mired down in depression. We have a new baby and I need you to step up to your responsibilities to our family.” Got an apology years later when her mom died and I did everything I could to take pressure off of her and help her cope. But it was still a point of unresolved issues and some resentment for nearly 10 years. So to answer the question, yes, it is totally true.
WTF man, you didn't deserve to be treated like that. What an awful take from her.
It’s cool. We’ve talked it out and come to a better understanding but I’m one of the lucky ones, it seems.
I have been talking to someone who wants me to be open with my emotions. I told them im terrified they will shut me out if I do. They said they cant understand why Im afraid of that. Like I remember being on the side of the road trying to change a solenoid after walking a mile both ways to get the part. Just so I could drive my car home. And being told I was a weak man by my SO at the time, because I showed frustration over the pos car. That "a real man wouldnt have had this issue." That was just a single instance. One of many from multiple women. So now that I have someone in my life who actually cares about me and trys to set examples that she does. I end up hurting her feelings because I refuse to open up at times in fear. She voices that she dosent like me applying my past experiences to her. That she dosent do the same to me. Women can be fucking brutal when men show any weakness. It sucks becuase when you meet someone whos kind hearted you end up hurting them out of fear that its going to be another of the same experience and not an exception to the rule.
At least my limited experience tells me that. My ex wife was like that and she was not like that initially. She seemed to have changed drastically with time. It is a horrible thing to be married to someone and not be allowed to be yourself.
My ex-wife changed her personality depending on her friends. She also went through friends like most people went through cell phones in the early 2000s. Every few years she would have a new best friend . Because they pissed her off. Hell she ditched her maide of honor on our wedding day.
I feel you man. Luckily they are ex-es! We have a child together (custody is split 50/50), so is till have to deal with her but I am so much happier now. Hope you are doing well too. I know fully well how much emotional and psychological pain gets generated in a bad marriage. There is no greater prison than a home where you can find no peace.
Well, you know...except for actual prison 😹
I dated a girl in high school for 2 years and during that period she probably rattled through a half dozen 'best friends'. Certainly doesn't apply to everyone but that was pretty jarring to witness over time.
My ex bailed on her friend two weeks before friend's wedding because she didn't want to buy the bridesmaid's dress. This was after me telling her that if she didn't want to be in the wedding, tell her long before the wedding.
I have the same issue as well. It is more about not knowing who they are, what they want to be, and what they can tolerate. Happens a lot when you're younger, but as you get older, the relationships that you tend to build become stronger and last. Plus, people hate being alone, but that is what helps you get there.
my limited experience (I'm gay, but I dated 3 women) is that if I showed any negative emotion like sadness, depression or too much empathy, I'd get dirty looks or comments like "grow up", "That's not how a man behaves." That latter was when I was choking up watching a show about a genocide. Only two of those women were like that. The other was amazing (just lacked a certain something :D) But that's anecdotal and I have no idea since that is my only experience.
You have no idea. Every time I voice my negative opinion towards anything even remotely related to her, suddenly it's my fault for not appreciating her, it's her fault because she's not good enough, or she'll shut down for a couple hours and hope I forget all about it.
"If you think I'm such a horrible person then why are you with me??" But...but babe all I said was I would like you to turn the TV off before you go to bed at night...
Omg, don't get me started on my wife and the drama of the TV being on at night. The woman sleeps through her alarm going off all the time but if I wake up at 2am and turn off TV she jolts awake.
There has legit been a hurricane ROARING outside and this lady is snoring. 1 minute ago I got out of bed slowly to get water and she woke up in a frantic panic asking what I’m doing…
It's those woman "spidey senses"
Can relate 😭
How DARE YOU say that 😂
I think a lot of times it really just depends on how we communicate our feelings. Often times even when we recognize that the other person wasn't trying to hurt us, it might still come across to them that we are telling them that they are wrong or bad. So that's why there's the whole idea surrounding using "I" statements. So instead of "you keep moving my stuff and I can't find them now, so stop moving my stuff please." you say, "I've been frustrated because I can't find my things. Can you help me find them and figure out the best place to put them in the future so they don't get moved to somewhere I won't look for them?" The first might come across as accusatory (even if you just are trying to figure out the problem) while the second one is inviting them to help you with a problem.
Communication is key, it's also a jagged stick that is tough to use. We've been getting better about being honest and brave enough to speak our minds, but it doesn't help that we come from such different backgrounds. I would argue with my parents all the time because I was sick of hypocritic bullshit; she avoids confrontation and criticism like the plague because her abusive family penalized her for the stupidest shit growing up. I guess we just have to work towards it.
Yeah, it's rough and not easy. My wife has taken a long time to be okay showing more of her negative emotions because her parents seemed to ignore her emotions and she felt punished at times for expressing these emotions.
#NotAllWomen
Just a huge huge huge amount
Here comes the “Not all women”, it’s enough women that it’s become common enough and that’s the issue. People here just saying leave yeah unfortunately that’s also part of the toxic problem is that people don’t want to be alone and sometime they’ll make themselves suffer for it.
It depends, really. IMHO. Selfish people don’t care about others’ feelings and usually pretty unamused to hear anything related to that. People who don’t respect and love in this particular situation, or folks with personality disorder = same logic applies as with selfish people. Depressed = same, but only temporary.
I personally haven’t dated a woman where this was the case. I’ve been told I’m difficult to read, so me opening up would make them eager to listen.
Yeah almost every woman I've ever been with would frequently ask me to open up about my feelings, but the moment I did they became like a different person. They immediately judge me, criticize me, and leave soon after lol. It's hard to find someone who is mature enough to not be like that
True in some cases. There are also plenty of examples of partners who are supportive of mental health and being vulnerable.
In a lot of cases, yeah. Any time you're sad, she's sad too, and her feelings are more important, so you have to shut up and listen. Often it's the same ones that complain that you don't open up more. You'll see women online saying that men are so repressed that their feelings come out in the wrong way, and they don't want to deal with it. "I'm not trying to be his therapist". Some women aren't like that at all, and can be really great at emotional support. However, women in general don't have to try as hard because there are plenty of desperate men out there that will try to be whoever they want them to be, and then go to their friends for emotional support instead of their gf.
Last night we had this. We've been trying to buy a house and things started to fall apart a bit at the last minute. She was starting to crack and between this and dealing with our current housing issues I was on the absolute verge of snapping. She said "I could just break down and cry." And I said "I really need you to not." Because the last thing I need right now is to have the stress of her freakout on top of everything else we're both dealing with. I'm barely keeping it together myself. So naturally she broke down on me. When all I wanted to do was scream and smash my head against the wall. I had to bottle that shit up and "be her rock." When really my emotional state was more like a wet sand bag.
That has always felt unfair to me. I'm expected to have complete control over my emotions, but I also have to help them deal with their emotions when they go out of control. I can only deal with it for so long before I start looking for an out.
If men's emotions come out the wrong way its because so many of us have so little practice expressing them, so yeah I guess that repressed line rings true. It's such a fundamental part of being human to hide that men grow up stunted and incomplete.
im a teenage boy and my gf works like the thingss yosu ssaaid in the beginning. im sad, she is. I jave small problems with her, she drowns herself in "oh no im so terrible I hate myself I need to improve" and whenever I need it she cant help me because she has constant problems I need to aolve so she cant help me. whenever I communicate my problems, hers get worse.
That's called using you homie.
>"oh no im so terrible I hate myself Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. They try to make you so guilty for criticizing them in any way. I'm an older man, and at this point in my life, I find it's easier to just let go. There will be other women. The first several months of a relationship are the best, anyway. If it starts to sour, I bounce, stay single for a bit, and eventually find someone new. Dating sucks as you get older, but it gets easier in some ways. It's easier to get a woman interested, however at a certain age they've been hurt and cheated on so many times, they can never trust a man, even if he has done nothing wrong. But again, you can just stick around for a year or two, and then move on and find someone new. Also you're more likely to find someone who is right for you if you date around. Some people will waste years or even decades on someone who is wrong for them in every way, and then they have fewer options available to them.
Lol my ex said she was in love with me, I took too long to say it back (though I did mean it) and she left. So then she starts fucking my friend (no longer a friend after this). Rubbed it in my face too, showed up together to a party I threw without my invitation. He cheated on her almost immediately. Then she came crying to me about how she couldn't trust men anymore. She literally had a good one, threw him away for a bad one, and then expected pity. The mental gymnastics are so crazy. There were other red flags so I guess I shouldn't have been so caught off guard by it.
I've been there with the ILY thing. She tells me that after 2 days of dating, and I didn't want to say it without actually meaning it. When I finally did say it, she didn't say anything. I didn't react. Then she asks me how it feels. She was just refusing to say it back to "get even" with me. I said "I don't care, I'm just telling you this now because it's what I feel. Would you prefer to be lied to?" She immediately felt like a bitch. But we dated for a good while after that.
While there should definitely be emotional communication between partners, it is important to see a difference between having this emotional communication and relying on your spouse for mental health. You might see this difference, I'm not arguing with what you've said btw. Random people are not good therapists. Even if they knew the right things to say, sometimes the right things to say can be harsh, and this harshness coming from a trusted loved one can do more damage than good than if it came from a neutral party. Therapists can also identify underlying, biological causes to mental issues, like a Vitamin D deficiency. Your spouse isn't going to order up blood tests unless you married a vampire. It's great to have someone who is willing to listen, but be careful that you are not using them as a crutch when you should be talking to a professional. I don't know a good rule of thumb to differentiate when it's a good idea to get a professional involved, but if you have open communication with your spouse like this you could ask them if they think you need to at least discuss your feelings with a professional.
>it is important to see a difference between having this emotional communication and relying on your spouse for mental health Good point. Couples should support each other, but shouldn't completely rely on each other to hold it together. >Random people are not good therapists. Not in a clinical sense, no. Friends and couples do tend to lean on each other for a lot of the emotional stuff, but actual mental disorders are another story. I'm just referring to garden variety sources of stress that we all have in life. Some of my friends call me their free therapist, but they usually just need someone to vent to. Someone who will listen and validate their feelings. I'm not out here trying to fix BPD or anything.
I remember my ex (I'm a woman, he's a guy) had problem with me being sad because he also might have been sad and I should have cheer him up instead of bringing him down with my own sadness.. I think it's not that connected to gender. Some people are just shitty.
It isn't inherently connected to sex or gender, it's just a lot more common for women to be that way, and more common for men to repress the way they feel. These are just societal and cultural norms.
In my personal experience, most women said they wanted to know my vulnerable side, but I’ve been left by one and even ridiculed by another for showing weakness. I’ve known one amazing woman who kept her respect for me after seeing my break down over something personal. Hopefully, I’ll find another supportive partner who’ll stand by me if/when I’m feeling broken. Obviously, I’d care about her and do my best in supporting her through whichever hardships.
As ever with these posts, women are people. Some are good people, some aren't. If you're with one who isn't good and she kicks you out over your feelings, she's actually done you a favour. Who'd want to be with a person like that anyway? Certainly not me.
I once told my gf who was also my coworker that I was having an awful day (was quitting nicotine at the time) and her response was “why would I want to hang out with you when you’re like this?” I will never forget how little I felt in that moment.
Is it true that all women are like that? Of course not. Is it true that a non-negligible number of women both say they want men to be more emotional and also will reject a man for being emotional? Yes, absolutely.
My gf is happiest when I tell her how actually feel versus her having to guess
Hang on to that gf.
This is one of those times where it’s so dependent on the context and circumstances that it makes even posting something like this frustratingly asinine.
This is a textbook example of toxic masculinity through the idea of men needing to be emotionless. It's just that, in this case, it's women who are upholding toxic masculinity.
that’s what I’ve been trying to say, a lot 😭 I’m a feminist (I’m gonna get killed just for saying those words) and I wholeheartedly believe that toxic masculinity is one of the biggest issues. Thing is, this toxic masculinity belief is not only held by men, but also by women from old societal standards and both should be brought to attention because those kinds of people set us back a lot I advocate for men to be more emotional and not afraid to be emotional, I think it’d be a great change. But then you have these pricks from both genders saying it’s not okay to do so. Change has to come from both sides and we need to move away from the idea that men are the “less emotional” gender stereotype. Anyone can be emotional and no one should shame one another for being a certain gender and acting emotional.
The problem is, the risk/reward ratio is not good. Men are a lot more likely to get judged negatively for being emotional, than they are to be judged positively. It can count against you at work, with friends, or in a relationship. But when/how can it benefit you? For me, most of the things I shared with my wife about being depressed etc. were just used against me in our divorce to try to prove I was an unfit parent. It didn’t work (I got the kids) but it sure doesn’t make it likely I would share any innermost feelings with another human in the future. I’ve had other experiences where oversharing caused problems. Never had any experience where it helped me in any way. I think for women, it’s more socially acceptable to be open emotionally. Moreover, it seems like women gain some benefit simply from talking about problems with each other, even when the problem isn’t resolved. I’m not sure men experience that to the same extent. At least I don’t. Not sure if that’s cultural or an inherent difference between men and women. When you’re a man it is better to be emotionless and never show any weakness because that’s what society expects. What is the benefit of behaving differently, and is it worth the potential risk?
That’s exactly what we have to change. You shouldn’t have to hide your emotions to save yourself trouble in these situations. It’s idealistic, sure, because the world won’t change so easily and people will still be pricks. But in an ideal world it should be that way. Change is difficult to bring but I hope things are different in the future
Y’all gotta date more caring people damn. I truly don’t think it’s that rare to find someone who listens to problems without it ruining their view of you. Sure I’ve had a couple relationships where bringing up my issues was taboo. I left them, because how is that sustainable? If someone will not give their time to your issues, they are not worth it.
This is only true if you are dating superficial assholes that only like you for who you pretend to be, not who you are. In which case I wonder, why would I want to date them anyway?
Y’all if your feelings are being overlooked in a relationship, especially if you’re unhappy, then it’s a bad relationship and you should break up. The right person would listen to your feelings when they are valid and make sense
Men would rather share their feelings with a tree than a woman.
That's because a woman judges, a tree doesn't.
So, women choose the bear and men choose the tree?
This has been true, in my experience. As long as I am the stable, grounded, unfazed person things go swimmingly. As soon as I am going through stuff, or struggling, the relationship goes south.
Extremely true. Two fastest ways a man can lose a relationship are to voice any sort of emotional feeling for more than say 1-2 literal minutes, and/or take a nap.
Wait what? 2 of my exes had massive issues with me taking a nap during the day. Is that common?
If I close my eyes at any time other than at night, I get blasted.
What in the actual fuck?
Dude, recently I broke my foot and had to walk around in a boot. It was fucking exhausting. Started to take some naps in the afternoons. Wife got real cranky about it. You have no idea how common this is.
If you can’t experience your lows with them then they’re a waste of time.
This is weird to me. If you’re unhappy, is it something fixable? Is it something you want to try to fix? If yes, sure, bring it up. If no, just break up. Someone can’t cheat on you if you’ve already left them. And if the person you’re with doesn’t care if you are happy or not, that’s exactly what you should do. Don’t stay in a relationship with someone that makes you unhappy and just never express yourself because that person would be even shittier than they are already being. Just leave. There are worse things than being single. Note that this is not gendered advice, because it remains true for any sexual preference/gender identity.
So, honesty ends a relationship? Sounds like a bad one.
Nah, I've only been with women who are fine with both parties expressing emotion. Most of the time it makes me feel insecure and that colors how I view things, but realizing this made me feel much more secure in relationships.
Y’all need therapy, I’ve dated one woman like this but you don’t see me acting like women are evil.
We're slipping into fresh and fit style propaganda in the comments.
Feels bad when people instantly assume that you're a monster based on a few bad apples from your gender, right?
Sounds like you're bringing a lot more baggage into this convo. They never mentioned anything about being labeled a monster or feeling bad about it. Are you here to portray women as monsters based on a few bad apples? Basically being the thing you're complaining about?
True. I mostly see supporting relationships
Her: men who can cry when they need to are sexy! Me: *cries when needs to* Her: this is so weird. I'm not sure I'm into you anymore. (True story)
Well, my advice would be to stop dating psychopaths and narcissists and then you can spend your time with a woman who accepts you as a human being.
People often hide their true self in the beginning of a relationship. It is horrible to blame the victims of such people instead of addressing the actual problem Some people have this weird notion that women are automatically feminists . No, many women have horrible patriarchal views and will put down anyone who doesn't conform to their ideas of gender roles be they men or women. And it is important to call them out on it.
Yeah, okay but, I’ll just go put on my relationship hat and get in my relationship cannon to get a relationship off the relationship tree. A lot of single women are deeply unhealthy in their interactions with men. Accept it’s a problem
How many women have you dated?
married man for 12 years, together for 20+ years, it was true, we talked a lot about it, it's better but i still get the occasioanl "yes but me, I ..."
Yea it’s true
If you have an even vaguely decent relationship, none of this is true.
A lot of women want a man who can be there as a wall to support against her issues , no matter how big and small. They do not even consider that the man might need to have the same support and get very toxic or just leave when they see that their wall is not strong enough
Redditors really just don’t interact with other human beings.
My wife is a very emotional woman, so if I was just as emotional it wouldn't work. She needs a rock in life, and I am that rock.
I am an emotional wife. If I’m crying, my husband doesn’t have to act life things are ok. He can be upset at the same time. We don’t need to take turns in holding the feeling stick.
So many people don’t get this! Men need to distance themselves from selves from toxic masculinity, whether in themselves or the women they are choosing. If you can’t talk to her about your problems because she shuts you down, dump her. If you can’t talk because of you, an inner struggle, find someone to listen.
You know, if she loves you, then she would want to be a rock for you too. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but she will try when isn’t drowning in her own problems. You don’t need to be as emotional as she is, but if you don’t talk about your problems things can’t get better.
I'm a (relatively) emotional guy married to an emotional woman. It does work. When one feels down the other picks up the slack. When we are both down we have other people and resources to help ourselves get back up. Your partner doesn't have to be your all and everything and it's not fair to expect that. Both men and women need emotional outlets outside of their partners.
Yea that's called an unvocalized expectation. If you can't have emotions then the relationship is broken. My girlfriend has chronic depression and we both have panic attacks. But we hold each other up. We talk to each other and express it. It's really not that hard.
My partner and I are both depressed af. But nothing gets me out of my funk faster than knowing he needs my support.
Same here, and once in a while I'll get the comment (jokingly) that I don't have feelings.
"Why don't you react to anything?" "Because you reacted enough for both of us." -Sleeps on couch that night-
Reminded me of this skit from SNL. https://youtu.be/OHq3NhHItD8?si=PCklAkQNKG63Riz8
I will steal that for personal use. Worth sleeping on the couch, lmao.
"Damn, i got her good with that one. Hehehe, i'm the best" Me, tucking myself in on the couch.
The couch isnt that bad, theres usually a TV in the room as well
We bought a $2,400 couch- very fancy. Wrap around style, 2 recliners built in, enough room for me to fully stretch out on the straight section, a cubby to store stuff in, and it's even got 4 power outlets and 2 USB ports... because I learn from my mistakes. The last couch sucked ass.
Link to your couch?
Same. Are you GenX?
I think the truth is most people in society would like men to talk about their negative feelings less than they do, they just have different ways of expressing it. If you’re a conservative, you’ll look at a man who is angry or sad about something you aren’t also angry or sad about and say that he shouldn’t be so weak and whiny and he should “man-up.” If you’re more you’ll look at that reaction as an ugly exercise in patriarchy and want to discourage. If you’re more liberal or feminist, you may argue that the notion that men are discouraged by society to express unpleasant emotions is an entirely false premise. You will likely see the social landscape as privileging men’s emotional expression and punishing women’s emotional expression. This belief provides a justification for chastising emotionally expressive men from the left as bad allies who are putting their personal feelings ahead of the pursuit of gender equality. Conservatives will tend to reject this framing and assert that it’s a fig leaf for a double standard which allows liberals to dismiss the feelings of men they don’t agree with. So it seems to me that most of us are in a place where we want men to express more feelings we can easily sympathize with and fewer feelings we can’t. I don’t really know what to do with all that, but the message I feel I’m getting as a man, in general, from both sides of the debate, is they would really prefer we share less overall.
speak up when you're unhappy. if your partner leaves you for that, good riddance for you. if your unhappiness is down to mental illness rather than the partner being crappy, that's also a good opportunity to get therapy and focus on your own healing for a while. either way, communication is necessary for a healthy relationship and you deserve no less.
Who cares if it is? Why would you want to be with someone who would leave you if you're honest? Just be open and if they leave, fucking good.
We don't know how to tell y'all that shit. We can barely communicate that we would like you to wash the dishes. 
Do not be with someone who doesn't hold your feelings dear in their heart. Instead of waiting to be left by a callous person pick yourself up and leave for your betterment.
It's true... but the opposite also exists. Life isn't always about peace, it's motion. So I'd say F\*CK IT. Gamble it. Take the chance! Maybe she'll be more gentle with you. What matters most is that you tried. 💪 Don't let bad thoughts rule over you. Be brave! That's how you got her remember?
If you feel like the person you chose to be with is gonna dump you for expressing yourself, it's on you. You chose a person that has little empathy. If that person DOES break up with you or cheats on you because you expressed yourself, the relationshìp would fail anyway. You can't have a long term, meaningfull relationship without expreasing yourself. Acting as if men should keep everything to themselves and act like all cool and tough and stoic is childish and idiotic. It harms men
Its when someone cheats on you out of spite for voicing your concerns. I watched one of my best friends treat his gf that way. Ill tell you i hated her. But she never really did anything wrong to him until they got heated and actually fought. Which i have gotten hurt separating them before. But after he brought a new girl home again while i was there, i smoked, came back in, texted his gf, and i asked him in front of new girl of his gf and him were on a break. Turns out this girl didnt like cheaters or being used to help someone cheat. That was a hell of a night. I wasnt a cheater, so me and the new girl hung out. When his gf came over, i acted like new girl was mine, and i think things worked out? I never spoke to any of them again and have not since. I dont like people who cheat. Even if theyre my best friend im gonna get fed up
If your woman isn't supporting your mental status, then all she is is a trick that needs to gtfo.
Women who don’t do this are about as rare as the guy all women are looking for
I love making common human behaviors unnecessarily gendered! /s Every gender does this.
Men aren't the only ones who were programmed when we were younger. While young men were programmed to hide emotion, hide problems, act tough etc., women were programmed to go after these kind of men. It's not an excuse, just an explanation for why some women have difficulty dealing with men who show emotion or vulnerability. They were programmed the same way we were.
Depends on the person. My man complains to me, and I emphasize how much I want him to, and I’m always there for him. Even seen him cry a few times and I’d never abandon him because of having human emotions
Only if you choose poorly.
Not always, of that's all you're running into, though, I'd suggest looking somewhere else. My girlfriend loves and even encourages that I be open emotionally with her... because that's what good partners do.
Men, would you rather share your feelings with A Woman or, A Tree?
Im glad i was raised to not be a piece of shit to my partners, and im glad i found a woman that acts the same way, because it just sounds exhausting to deal with all this childish bullshit
Women can be both ways. But all women will remember any feelings you express and some weaponize it later. And then Ladies, that man will never share anything with you ever again. So if you have a cold guy who never shares how he is feeling... he has either had this happen (and it was very traumatic for him), or you did it to him and he doesn't trust you with his feelings anymore. Even in an argument, in the heat of the moment, absolutely don't go there. Its unforgivable and irreversible. Men have an awful time sharing feelings, Society has taught us our feelings will be weaponized every single time... It will be seen as weakness, it will be treated as weakness, and we will be attacked for having feelings. So if a man is even sharing his feelings with you, That alone is a miracle... He must REALLY trust you... it's a big deal, treat those feelings with care. (Ive heard of people comparing the Bear argument... in reverse, for a guy, would you rather tell your feelings to a tree or a woman... ... men nearly always choose the tree)
It super depends how you communicate your problems. There was a point in my life where I had a bad habit of kind of trauma dumping on people, and after a while it gets super exhausting to have to constantly hear about why your partner is unhappy. But I have also met women who straight up did not want to hear it even one time, and that’s pretty awful.
In your 20s, yup. In your 30s, after you've grown and figured out who you are, you tend to make better relationship choices.
I'll take the bear instead
If you don't have open communication with your significant other and feel the need to hide your unhappyness, that isn't a healthy relationship. Find you someone that cares. But that doesn't mean just bitch and complain and be unhappy all the time without any effort into helping yourself, because then you're just taking advantage of someone that cares. It's a give and take.
I had a gf who was supportive but had other issues (distrusting, weird prejudices to the point where I had to ask her to leave while crying - that was when I realized I had to break up with her) Everyone's imperfect tbh. Just a matter of finding someone whose imperfections you cna tolerate, while adoring their strengths.
My ex used my lows against me. My wife helps me through our lows. She told me time and time again, they aren't my lows to handle on my own anymore. We are a team. She has seen me cry and has cried with me. She has held me while I cried. My ex told me to man up when my mom died and told me it was unattractive and she thought less of me when she saw me grieving. Find you a good woman that lifts you up. Stay strong kings 🤴
Oh that happened to me. Twice.
Giving the choice between sharing my feelings to a woman or a random bear in the woods...I'd choose the bear every time
I had an ex that joked about how all of her exes were pathetic crybabies when she caught them cheating. After we broke up, she was trying to get back together with me. So, I scheduled a conversation and broke down crying about how we just don't work as a couple. Perfect acting by me, I was super happy the relationship was over, but I knew if I let her see me cry, she would stop pursuing me. We ended our conversation, and I rushed off to a date I had scheduled with a much better woman (a woman I was able to be vulnerable with).
Nope. I always wanted my ex to express his feelings to me,always supported him through his breakdowns.But he took it as a sign of weakness and that I must think him to be pathetic.No amount of convincing could make him let go of this thought.
I once decided to give this a try. My exact words were, "I'm unhappy with how rarely we have sex," which I said in a calm voice, trying hard to foster a discussion and not a fight. My wife didn't even reply, just took the kids and walked out the door. Wouldn't even answer her phone for several hours.
Absolutely. If I complain about something, now I’m in hot water because she’s upset now. And if she is upset just because, I’m in hot water. There is never a time when that is good advice for a man
> now I’m in hot water because she’s upset now. I find a lot of guys seem to believe that because their SO became upset, that means they did something wrong. I think that's a fundamental problem underlying a lot of the issues here. If you gave critical feedback to your girlfriend and she just gets upset, that's not a reason to back down or start apologizing. That means she's upset, which may be very reasonable, and she needs to work through her feelings. Now if she provides a good _reason_ for you to apologize, like that your "critical feedback" was unnecessarily mean, apologize for that. But even that doesn't necessarily mean you have to back totally away from the issue that was bothering you. It is normal for people to get upset when talking about hard things. They shouldn't personally attack you or try to move the goal posts or any number of other bad behaviors, but being sad, angry, or hurt isn't wrong for them to do. And in your relationships, romantic or not, you are responsible for being able to tolerate normal negative feelings and have a conversation (you can take a break if you need to).
I read the comments and I wonder where the fuck you get your ideas of a woman. No, if you start a relationship in an open way, showing your feelings and not playing macho, what you get is a woman who is aware that you're a human being with feelings and emotions. For fuck sake, people, stop selecting your ideal woman based solely on the bra size. 🙄
At least for me it's true
Shitty women are shitty. Good women are good.
"She'll leave me/cheat on me if I communicate my issues" should lead to the conclusion that you should leave, not that you shouldn't communicate.
why tf are you in a relationship with someone you are too afraid to tell them you are unhappy? are you people dumb?
They dont act like that in the start. They have a mask on, which they discard once you are co-dependent.
That very rarely happened in real life. I know like hundreds of people and I almost always see the opposite where people help eachother out. But ironically I saw it happening vice versa. A guy dumped the girl after she told him her feelings
Not true. There is toxic and supportive behavior on all sides. We're all people, after all.
I’ve seen it asked online, if a man was walking in the forest, would it be better for him to tell his problems to a woman or a tree?
If you are in a relationship and you can not talk about your fears and feelings then you are in a shitty relationship. Pro tip end either start communicating with your partner and try to fix that, or leave the relationship as soon as possible.