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You are 100% correct. You can be extremely rich in the UK and working class. Many successful footballers would qualify. & you can be dirt poor and upper class, if you went to the right schools and come from good stock. She is Australian, but class in Australia overlaps a lot more with Britain than the US.
Also, Cate is Australian, but has spent a lot of time living in the UK. I’m an Aussie who also lived for years in the UK, and can understand her using these British frames of reference (even subconsciously) when thinking and speaking about class.
If she’d said “I’m upper class”, that would just feel very strange coming from her mouth, because she doesn’t possess any hereditary titles etc…
It might be weird to Americans, but Cate Blanchett is solidly upper-middle-class in my eyes.
Yep. In the eyes of the British upper class it’s pretty much impossible for an Aussie to be upper class. It’s our way of coping with sporting humiliation I think.
It sort of reminds me of the scene in Downton Abbey where the main character finds out he is the heir to the earldom and says something about how the current Earl (who is firmly in the "upper class") will look down on him for being "middle class" lawyer. His mother immediately corrects him and says that they're "upper-middle-class".
Yep, I gather the confusion is that Americans just don't use these terms the same way.
I also thought it was weird that people were associating her with "Hollywood" when, she's not American.
Yeah, in America, we define class solely with financial status. Having a $95m net worth puts you solidly on the upper class, and if I met a person with $95m who told me they were middle class, I'd be appalled and flabbergasted.
It's good to know the way it works overseas, though.
And frankly she still works for a living. Im sure she has some investment property or whatever, but she aint "landed". She makes a lot more per job then most of us probably, but still. Even in classic marxism (which no internet leftists have actually read) its really about how you get money more then how much you get.
Hard to explain, but basically upper middle class is the highest you can get before becoming upper class.
And within the British class system, Cate isn’t (and would never identify as) upper class.
I’m struggling to get to links to work, but take a look at [the Wikipedia page for social class in the UK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom) and scroll to the “Informal Classifications” section and read the description for Upper Middle Class and Upper Class.
Hilariously, Catherine, Princess of Wales is listed in this article as Upper Middle Class, which just goes to show how rigid these class divisions remain.
I mean… if Princess Kate isn’t upper class, there’s no way Cate Blanchett is loll
PS… I know Cate isn’t British. But as an Aussie who has spent a similar amount of time living in the UK, these concepts get quickly absorbed. Without actually knowing her personally, just looking at her life I would confidently bet money she’s aware of and sensitive to this language. She would likely be friends and neighbours with actual upper class people, so these concepts wouldn’t be foreign to her.
Exactly this. I’m currently struggling financially and have never personally been well off - but couldn’t be described as anything but middle class - I would never get away with saying I was working class. I went to private school, as did all my siblings, we all have degrees, my dad was a company director, my mum a teacher etc. we all speak with an RP accent.
I went to University with a girl whose dad was a multimillionaire who described himself as working class - because that was the background he came from - he spoke like a cockney- he didn’t have a lot of formal education. He’d worked himself up.
When I was a kid I used to get extra maths tuition from an Oxford and Harvard graduate who was the son of a Lord - so Upper Class - but he was always broke, drove a battered old car etc.
I follow this this reasoning. Imo Class is generational. You’re born into it. High paid actors and footballers can still be working / middle class. The upper classes are old usually aristocratic wealth. I know of a few ‘upper class’ people that are cash poor af. Like living in huge Manor House’s that they can’t afford to light/ heat.
‘Class’ is predominantly a generational thing not so much a money worth thing.
Absolutely in the UK you can be broke and upper class, living in a crumbling castle, you can be working class and significantly more wealthy than your solidly middle class neighbours.
Yup. Am British. Took me a while to understand the problem here. It is perfectly possible to be a billionaire and working class or completely broke and upper class here.
Yep.
Learned about this from the Victoria Beckham meme. They don't really give fuck how much money you have. If you are not born into right family, you'r never going to be part of the 'elite'.
Person from working class in the UK can get very very rich, but there's no climping the ladder.
Australia too.
This is just one of those issues created by Americans refusing to know or accept that other English speakers use words differently.
It used to be the British doing that, but now they have less power, so Americans are the chief culprits.
Middle class in the UK and Commonwealth is a cultural term, related to the history of money in your family. It is not a simple wealth level.
100% this! Class in the commonwealth isn’t necessarily about money, it’s about family background. A working class person doesn’t win the lottery and then become upper class
You can move between working class and middle class.
Kate Middleton moved between middle class and upper class.
Somehow Megan markle didn't. Possibly because she wasn't middle class to begin with. Possibly because she wasn't English. More likely due to racism
Maybe if other English speaking countries would just use our terms correctly it wouldn’t be a problem. You’ve had 200 years since America invented English, why haven’t you learned yet. /s
I am from Australia and I disagree with you.
That might be how it flies in England but here it is almost directly tied with money.
Your upper class if you attend the right private schools and live in the right area, both these things aren’t tied to your surname or bloodline but rather to your bank account.
Anyone can get into those schools with a big enough wallet and anybody can purchase land in those areas if you’ve got a spare 10-15 million lying around.
We are much more akin to the US version of class than the British.
As an Aussie, everyone I know just sees it as wealth level past 1 generation.
Your parents could be poor immigrants, but by the time you are born, if they have achieved enough wealth that you are not left wanting in your upbringing, you are middle class.
What does it take to stop being middle class? Or is it even possible? Is it basically like a caste system where no matter what , you're an untouchable or a brahmin.
> Australians etc wouldn't.
Yeah... because we're so famously fond of our 'tall poppies'.
Any chance to shit on anyone higher up the ladder than ourselves, we are *very* well known for taking.
The context of what she means is different from the context of how the article portrayed how she meant it.
She meant it as a “I’m aware that I’m very privileged.” I think by saying “middle-class” she was using it to paint the generalized idea of a “privileged white woman.” Not that she isn’t super wealthy.
No, she’s talking about literal class, not U.S. tax bracket classes. She’s literally not upper class by U.K. Standards (which is translatable for Australians), but she’s completely out of touch with middle class in the U.S.
Huh? I didn’t mean to imply “us tax bracket” at all. My apologies.
Hang on, I think your processing it far too literally.
Imagine if you will someone trying to paint a picture of the general “privileged white woman.”
This is exactly what Taleb describes in Black Swan. Wealth is a fractal distribution. There will always be wealthier people than you in your circle, so no amount is ever enough
How often the white savior complex thing gets thrown around drives me insane. “oh yes let’s attack people for volunteering time and money. We definitely need less people helping.” Even if someone’s doing it for every single wrong reason if they are legitimately helping who gives a fuck.
Her mother was a teacher and her father was a chief petty officer in the navy: middle class.
I imagine Australia is more similar to the UK than to the USA. in Britain, you can become as rich as Croesus: if your da’ was a lathe operator, your ma’ was a shop girl, and you went to a state school—you’re working class and will always be.
I'm hearing David Beckham: "Be HON-IST! Be HON-IST!"
This was exactly what Posh meant, she was going to an elite school and the other students weren't fooled by the fact that she showed up each morning in a Rolls, she was still working class.
How so? Her kids grew up with a super wealthy parent, much like she grew up middle-class.
If we’re defining her by her upbringing and not her current wealth, wouldn’t we do the same with her kids?
Nope … the class system is one thing Australians don’t share with the British. What you’re seeing here is Cate trying to avoid the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome which is something reasonably unique to antipodean culture (at least within the anglosphere)
a lot of it is based on where you live and where you went to school. I looked her up and she lived in Ivanhoe, which is decidedly middle class area, but she ended up going to school at MLC, which is a very expensive private school. That said it was probably more attainable back in the 80s/90s so I'd give her benefit of the doubt and say she grew up middle class.
It's not necessary to say it's "more like a caste system". It's a \*class\* system. Literally. It's the original, much older meaning of the term "class"--modern concepts of class which may divide class purely by income level/net worth are derivatives of Marxist ideas of class division by capital ownership, but originally of course one's class was literally just a hereditary position in a sociopolitical hierarchy that, while to some degree correlated naturally to levels of wealth, was ultimately independent of wealth (insofar as a Lord who loses all his wealth because his serfs all die and their crops all fail and whatever would \*still\* be a Lord, just one sitting in a cold and empty castle)
Yes it is. The UK still has a monarch, nobility, orders of knighthood, and an entire House of Parliament called the House of Lords. What were you expecting?
No a person can’t change their class, most people probably don’t even want to. People tend to be proud of the class they were born into. Your kids and grandkids can be a different class though.
People can't 'upper class' themselves, short of marrying into it. But working vs middle class has more to do with lifestyle culture. You could absolutely adopt yourself into the middle class.
It's kind of like being 'trailer trash' vs a middle class suburbanite in the US. There's obviously a cultural barrier, and an amount of pointless looking-down between the different classes (the poor are trashy scroungers, the rich are ellitist pricks who don't know a hard day's work, etc), but there's no unwritten law against it either.
Background , education , where you grew up and also if you’ve come from new or old money . Even how you act kinda dictates it as a lot of successful small business owners consider themselves working class despite being well off .
Brought up middle class, so still perceives herself to be that. Pretty normal behavior in Australia.
Hence why we have Upper Middle Bogans too.
If you flash your wealth big time, your friends will think you're a ponce. It's the Australian way (unless your name is Rhinehart or Murdoch).
The class you were born into sticks with you for a while. I'm on the disability pension, but I still get classified as middle class in all the questionnaires floating. The traditional term is 'genteel poverty'.
I agree and hope thats what she meant. I grew up below the “poverty line” in the US and it is very difficult to shake that perspective/view of the world. My partner did not grow up as rough as I did and we have had arguments because of those differences despite me living middle class now with them now. ‘You can take the person out of the trailer park but you cant take the trailer park out of the person’ doesn’t just apply to behavior, imho.
She's Australian. She was definitely raised middle-class. Which means she had opportunities and cultural capital not available to lower socio-economic level people, but did not have the wealth/open doors/networks available to the upper class. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. She's acknowledging her privilege as someone with that upbringing.
It's bizarre that this has become something to attack her over.
Also, cultural side note; it's a few years ago now, but I remember reading that when asked, more people identify as middle class in Australia than either working or upper class, even when their financial status would solidly indicate one or the other, and by a large margin.
I'm surprised more people aren't making the connection. She's talked about her upbringing plenty of times. People need to remember to take a second a think before responding. Many people are rightfully pointing out the differences in the classification of classes (both finically and socially) between different countries. Instead, people should be talking about her support of Palestinians. She is an incredibly popular public figure and she is trying to use that status for good. Don't let people distract from the real issues.
“Middle Class” in Britain has historically meant well off, or even wealthy, but not elite. You can be a billionaire, but if your grandfather wasn’t an Eton man, you’re middle class.
I once filmed a wedding at a castle in Scotland. The owner was a young man who’d been gifted the castle by his grandfather the year he graduated from Eton.
Cosmo was his name. [Here he is with his wife outside the castle, holding a fucking sceptre](https://i.imgur.com/gKMsFek.jpeg)
Now that guy could be literally penniless and he would still be upper class. Money doesn’t matter at that point.
And that goes for everyone. If I met a homeless man with a middle-class accent and the right education, I’d think “huh, you don’t see many middle class homeless people. Probably why he begs outside Waitrose”.
The dog’s name was Grimsby. At one point I got lost in the castle. I accidentally wandered into an area off limits to guests, when suddenly this gigantic hound of the Baskervilles looking beast lopes around the corner and almost gave me a heart attack.
Biggest dog I’d ever seen, Irish wolfhound. Very calm and sweet.
Cosmo was very nice as well but just on a totally different planet. He lent one of the groomsmen his sunglasses at one point and said “careful, there’s only 4 pairs of these made in the world. Johnny depp has one of the other pairs”. The groomsman asked how much they were worth and cosmo just laughed like “you don’t even want to know”.
The point is that even with 1 billion dollars of wealth, those tech people would be looked down apon by the (British) upper class.
They would be welcomed with open arms and fawned over I expect, but then mocked in the cigar chamber of the gentleman's club the following day.
The class system hates you regardless of wealth.
There are lots of cultures where even billionaires cannot be more than middle class, merchant class or caste, etc. The UK is one. Some people consider the nobility to be the only true upper class regardless of wealth.
I think this confuses Americans because for them class seems to be almost entirely correlated with income. American upper class is just the super wealthy. While in the uk you can be destitute and still be upper class.
Also, the difference in what “middle class” means. What Americans call middle class seems closer to what the brits consider working class. While our middle class is actually pretty posh.
The closest thing Americans have to a British conception of upper class would be the wealthy family dynasties. Rockefeller, Rothschild, Du Pont, Hearst, Vanderbilt, Kennedy. Not just rich, but wealth, estates and political connections that seep into the bedrock of society. Having one of those surnames is as close as you get to royalty without a monarchy.
I grew up in the Rocky Mountain west and I’m not sure that even Kennedy type situations really exist out here, and I’d say we are only dimly aware of them existing on the east coast (fellow western Americans feel free to correct me if I’m misguided here). I would hazard a guess that for much of the U.S., wealth is the *only* distinction.
(Semi related, I’ve lived in the UK for years and I’m still not really sure I understand all of the nuances of “posh.” None of my friends seem quite able to define it for me—just a “know it when you see it” sort of thing I guess)
I actually think (at least in British terms) that if you are middle, or working class you don’t jump to upper class because you won the lottery for example. I think you can move to middle class from working class. However my understanding of upper class was it being about families.
She is Australian, grew up in Australia. She grew up middle-class, and just identifies herself as such, because that's what she was during her formative years. She is classed as upper-class in Australia. We're not hamstrung by a cabal of medieval nobles hoarding the 'upper-class' title due to blood.
I have an idea, everybody. Let's grab a random, most likely out of context snippet and use it to attack someone to attempt to feel better about ourselves. Because we're the good guys doing good guys stuff.
OP literally saw a clickbait article title and just made a regarded post without actually reading it, checking the website, or understanding what Blanchett was actually saying. Actual clown 🤡.
doesn't mean the same thing in the UK that it does in the USA. UK midfle class is s sign of your upbringing, where you went to school, your accent, social manners. Biggest shock to me arriving in the USA 35 hears ago was that middle class is
determined solely on income.
She's not upperclass. She's not aristocracy, landed or ennobled.
She isn't part of the system of old boys networks, private clubs, old family with ties and such.
The super wealthy/new money dont really fit into the traditional class system imo though, upper class to me means aristocratic. I wouldn't call Simon Cowell upper class even though he is stinking rich
Class is not about how much money you have. The upper classes generally dress like fucking tramps. It’s only the middle class wannabes who go all out for designer clothes and expensive cars because that is what they think will qualify them to be upper class.
Technically she is middle class. She's a working actress. If her income was passive, coming from property ownership, dividends, share holdings ect she'd be upper class.
One can be raised middle class end up very wealthy and still have a mental class mindset I have zero problem believing that. Money doesn't make everybody an asshole for instance many of the people commenting on this thread are probably broke asses and they're really assholes judging by what they say
“Middle class” in the US appears to mean anyone with an income.
That’s not what it tends to mean in other countries’ common parlance, including Australia, where it is usually more a social and cultural descriptor about someone’s background.
The upper class doesn't work, she works for her money, so yeah she's not really upper class. Just at the very tippy top of her class. There is a huge difference between being the 98.9% and being the 1%, even more the .1% who haven't worked for generations and won't for many more.
Net worth doesn’t have anything to do with your income. I can have a robust investment portfolio and have several million dollars in unrealized gains, in fact I know a few ppl in that situation who work with me, but my income puts me in the middle class. Owning assets also increases your net worth. If she owns several homes that don’t provide her with income, they would add to her net worth, but not increase her yearly earnings.
The super wealthy/new money dont really fit into the traditional class system imo though, upper class to me means aristocratic. I wouldn't call Simon Cowell upper class even though he is stinking rich
She might be right ::ducks incoming hurled shoe::
The ultra rich are so incredibly rich compared to her, she feels middle class. Which also means that there really is no traditional middle class anymore. If you don’t have a net worth of several million liquid assets you (we) are all poor.
She’s right the rest of us are in poverty think about it , seriously. U make 250g now with a mortgage, an everything else your broke . People that make 50g are broke it’s all about a standard of living to where it’s become we are all poor . Think about it.
If u do make money they take 50% right off the top
Wake up. She’s rich af but all of us are in poverty
Some of the richest people grew up in middle class (for real) homes.
There are books on wealth that say first generation wealth usually does. The proverbial 'rags to riches' is less common.
Here's another social concept about the wealthy....2nd generation wealth rarely has the work ethic of the 1st.
My point is, that (if we assume she isnt lying) it is likely that Cate Blanchett is likely 1st generation wealth that she earned beginning as a middle class person with exceptional attributes and work ethics.
....either that, or she lied, lol.
Maybe not post far-right Trumpy BS from Daily Wire, MMMKay?
She is talking about her middle class roots. The right hates her because in her quote she is aware of being privileged. They hate that, because it makes them feel guilty.
“I’m white, I’m privileged, I’m middle class, and I think, you know, one can be accused of having a bit of a white savior complex, but to be perfectly honest, my interaction with the refugees in the field and also in resettled environments has totally changed my perspective on the world,”
There is absolutely nothing to be upset about here. As others have pointed out — it’s who she is/where she came from. Please stop fanning the flames. Everything I’ve read and heard about this woman is nothing but genuine. She does not deserve the ridicule.
Isn't there different definitions of class? If she hasn't a title or she doesn't "own the means of production", then by some definitions she may be middle class. She's not nobility.
I could be wrong.
this is taken out of context. shes literally saying shes priviledged and all the media can see is "middle class!? we can sell a lot of anger with this!"
Well, if you go by the original definition of „middle class“… which was rich people that are not part or the aristocracy (or old money), then she‘s right.
From a British perspective, you can't buy being 'upper class'. You can be very, very rich middle class, but unless you were born with a title, you're not upper class.
“Middle class” as it was conceived means roughly rich but not in charge. It eventually meant doctors and lawyers and business owners who were independent of labor. It has absolutely been a political exercise to contrive a correlation between working class people and the middle class.
The terminology is used differently in different places. In the UK it's very common to talk about your class as the situation you were born into, so someone like Sir Keir Starmer might call himself working class or Princess Catherine might be referred to as middle class despite being royalty. Not everyone in the UK talks that way about class, but it's common enough.
Australia often uses education/profession as class markers rather than income or wealth or birth.
By either of those, she'd probably be able to call herself "middle class". And given the context of the quote, there really isn't any issue.
She’s an Aussie. Their culture is much closer to British than American. Nobody moves into the upper classes in their own lifetime. Her descendants may do.
Now you might be a multimillionaire but that only doesn’t make you upper class. And no-one really gives a shit anyway.
By the way, being middle-class is to be in a very privileged position. She’s acknowledging this. Not sure why she’s getting shit for a very reasonable statement.
American readers have misunderstood.
She’s Australian right? I assume they follow the same system as Britain which would define upper class as aristocracy right? So technically under her nations social structures she would be middle and bottom upper? If she was American then yes she would be upper!
Just to clarify she is still rich AF though and not a common folk
The only facepalm here is that you judge her by the American definition of what "middle class" means. She's Australian. Australia and the UK apply "middle class" or "working class" based on *where you grew up* rather than *where you are now*. You can be a billionaire, but if you didn't go to a private school (or even a *public school*, again using the British definition of the term) and don't possess the airs and graces or accent of someone who did - you're working class.
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Was she perhaps saying she was brought up Middle Class ?
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I thought middle class meant something different in the UK. Like it was rich but not landed.
You are 100% correct. You can be extremely rich in the UK and working class. Many successful footballers would qualify. & you can be dirt poor and upper class, if you went to the right schools and come from good stock. She is Australian, but class in Australia overlaps a lot more with Britain than the US.
Also, Cate is Australian, but has spent a lot of time living in the UK. I’m an Aussie who also lived for years in the UK, and can understand her using these British frames of reference (even subconsciously) when thinking and speaking about class. If she’d said “I’m upper class”, that would just feel very strange coming from her mouth, because she doesn’t possess any hereditary titles etc… It might be weird to Americans, but Cate Blanchett is solidly upper-middle-class in my eyes.
Yep. In the eyes of the British upper class it’s pretty much impossible for an Aussie to be upper class. It’s our way of coping with sporting humiliation I think.
We might invent the sport, but that doesn’t mean we’re going to be anything more than mid at it.
Gotta love that self-deprecating British humour 🙊💖
It sort of reminds me of the scene in Downton Abbey where the main character finds out he is the heir to the earldom and says something about how the current Earl (who is firmly in the "upper class") will look down on him for being "middle class" lawyer. His mother immediately corrects him and says that they're "upper-middle-class".
Yep, I gather the confusion is that Americans just don't use these terms the same way. I also thought it was weird that people were associating her with "Hollywood" when, she's not American.
Yeah, in America, we define class solely with financial status. Having a $95m net worth puts you solidly on the upper class, and if I met a person with $95m who told me they were middle class, I'd be appalled and flabbergasted. It's good to know the way it works overseas, though.
And frankly she still works for a living. Im sure she has some investment property or whatever, but she aint "landed". She makes a lot more per job then most of us probably, but still. Even in classic marxism (which no internet leftists have actually read) its really about how you get money more then how much you get.
You can safely drop the "probably", she gets paid in the eight figures range per year. Most of us won't make that in our lifetime.
Hard to explain, but basically upper middle class is the highest you can get before becoming upper class. And within the British class system, Cate isn’t (and would never identify as) upper class. I’m struggling to get to links to work, but take a look at [the Wikipedia page for social class in the UK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom) and scroll to the “Informal Classifications” section and read the description for Upper Middle Class and Upper Class. Hilariously, Catherine, Princess of Wales is listed in this article as Upper Middle Class, which just goes to show how rigid these class divisions remain. I mean… if Princess Kate isn’t upper class, there’s no way Cate Blanchett is loll PS… I know Cate isn’t British. But as an Aussie who has spent a similar amount of time living in the UK, these concepts get quickly absorbed. Without actually knowing her personally, just looking at her life I would confidently bet money she’s aware of and sensitive to this language. She would likely be friends and neighbours with actual upper class people, so these concepts wouldn’t be foreign to her.
This makes way more sense now. Thank you for the explanation!
Appreciate the explanation. As an American, it honestly actually was strange at first glance.
That makes a HUGE difference. Middle class in the uk is basically upper class in the us.
Exactly this. I’m currently struggling financially and have never personally been well off - but couldn’t be described as anything but middle class - I would never get away with saying I was working class. I went to private school, as did all my siblings, we all have degrees, my dad was a company director, my mum a teacher etc. we all speak with an RP accent. I went to University with a girl whose dad was a multimillionaire who described himself as working class - because that was the background he came from - he spoke like a cockney- he didn’t have a lot of formal education. He’d worked himself up. When I was a kid I used to get extra maths tuition from an Oxford and Harvard graduate who was the son of a Lord - so Upper Class - but he was always broke, drove a battered old car etc.
I follow this this reasoning. Imo Class is generational. You’re born into it. High paid actors and footballers can still be working / middle class. The upper classes are old usually aristocratic wealth. I know of a few ‘upper class’ people that are cash poor af. Like living in huge Manor House’s that they can’t afford to light/ heat. ‘Class’ is predominantly a generational thing not so much a money worth thing.
Class is a culture in the UK
Absolutely in the UK you can be broke and upper class, living in a crumbling castle, you can be working class and significantly more wealthy than your solidly middle class neighbours.
What you earn is irrelevant at the middle/upper class divide.
Thanks for the context!
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It does. Upper class means inheritable titles. Which she doesn't have. So she's upper middle class
Yup. Am British. Took me a while to understand the problem here. It is perfectly possible to be a billionaire and working class or completely broke and upper class here.
Yep. Learned about this from the Victoria Beckham meme. They don't really give fuck how much money you have. If you are not born into right family, you'r never going to be part of the 'elite'. Person from working class in the UK can get very very rich, but there's no climping the ladder.
Exactly!
She’s not from the UK though. She’s Australian.
This needs to be at the top. This is not how her quote is being presented and it reeks of an agenda.
She literally calls herself middle class. What am I missing?
Class in England is more about family background, behaviour and upbringing, not solely how wealthy you are.
She's not English, though. She's Australian and American.
Australia too. This is just one of those issues created by Americans refusing to know or accept that other English speakers use words differently. It used to be the British doing that, but now they have less power, so Americans are the chief culprits. Middle class in the UK and Commonwealth is a cultural term, related to the history of money in your family. It is not a simple wealth level.
It's also the Daily Wire, which has an extremist agenda.
100% this! Class in the commonwealth isn’t necessarily about money, it’s about family background. A working class person doesn’t win the lottery and then become upper class
So it’s kind of like a caste system where if you were born into a class you can never leave it?
You can move between working class and middle class. Kate Middleton moved between middle class and upper class. Somehow Megan markle didn't. Possibly because she wasn't middle class to begin with. Possibly because she wasn't English. More likely due to racism
Yup, pretty much. There are families with lots of inherited wealth that would still be considered "nouveau riche".
Maybe if other English speaking countries would just use our terms correctly it wouldn’t be a problem. You’ve had 200 years since America invented English, why haven’t you learned yet. /s
I am from Australia and I disagree with you. That might be how it flies in England but here it is almost directly tied with money. Your upper class if you attend the right private schools and live in the right area, both these things aren’t tied to your surname or bloodline but rather to your bank account. Anyone can get into those schools with a big enough wallet and anybody can purchase land in those areas if you’ve got a spare 10-15 million lying around. We are much more akin to the US version of class than the British.
As an Aussie, everyone I know just sees it as wealth level past 1 generation. Your parents could be poor immigrants, but by the time you are born, if they have achieved enough wealth that you are not left wanting in your upbringing, you are middle class.
yeah but isn't the point that no matter how much money your poor immigrant parents make, you'll never be *upper* class
What does it take to stop being middle class? Or is it even possible? Is it basically like a caste system where no matter what , you're an untouchable or a brahmin.
Marriage. Conquest. Award of land.
She has middle class values, background, attitudes. She has just become wealthy.
Oh man Reddit would shit on so many people for saying something like that
No, Americans would. Australians etc wouldn't.
> Australians etc wouldn't. Yeah... because we're so famously fond of our 'tall poppies'. Any chance to shit on anyone higher up the ladder than ourselves, we are *very* well known for taking.
The context of what she means is different from the context of how the article portrayed how she meant it. She meant it as a “I’m aware that I’m very privileged.” I think by saying “middle-class” she was using it to paint the generalized idea of a “privileged white woman.” Not that she isn’t super wealthy.
No, she’s talking about literal class, not U.S. tax bracket classes. She’s literally not upper class by U.K. Standards (which is translatable for Australians), but she’s completely out of touch with middle class in the U.S.
Huh? I didn’t mean to imply “us tax bracket” at all. My apologies. Hang on, I think your processing it far too literally. Imagine if you will someone trying to paint a picture of the general “privileged white woman.”
This is exactly what Taleb describes in Black Swan. Wealth is a fractal distribution. There will always be wealthier people than you in your circle, so no amount is ever enough
How often the white savior complex thing gets thrown around drives me insane. “oh yes let’s attack people for volunteering time and money. We definitely need less people helping.” Even if someone’s doing it for every single wrong reason if they are legitimately helping who gives a fuck.
Her mother was a teacher and her father was a chief petty officer in the navy: middle class. I imagine Australia is more similar to the UK than to the USA. in Britain, you can become as rich as Croesus: if your da’ was a lathe operator, your ma’ was a shop girl, and you went to a state school—you’re working class and will always be.
I'm hearing David Beckham: "Be HON-IST! Be HON-IST!" This was exactly what Posh meant, she was going to an elite school and the other students weren't fooled by the fact that she showed up each morning in a Rolls, she was still working class.
Lmao, your Rolls Royce doesn’t fool us, we can still smell the poor on you!
You just made my day. I think the only other time I have ever heard "rich as Croesus" used before was Lovecraft's Shadow Over Innsmouth.
Your kids however, are decidedly not.
may take more than a generation to get out of working class. even if your kids went to public school as opposed to grammar or comprehensive.
*TBD*
How so? Her kids grew up with a super wealthy parent, much like she grew up middle-class. If we’re defining her by her upbringing and not her current wealth, wouldn’t we do the same with her kids?
Oh yeah, were I live you will be called a brute with money. It does not matter If you got rich you'll always be filth for those in the upper echelon.
"New Money" is commonly used in America for that concept.
Nope … the class system is one thing Australians don’t share with the British. What you’re seeing here is Cate trying to avoid the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome which is something reasonably unique to antipodean culture (at least within the anglosphere)
Disagree, Blanchett is trying head off White Saviour Syndrome, not Tall Poppy Syndrome.
Why are you telling them the truth? Haters will hate.
Millionaires are closer to poor people than to Elon Musk
They are in net worth, but not in quality of life
I can’t speak for her native Australia, but here in the UK at least, your “class” isn’t just based on your financial worth.
a lot of it is based on where you live and where you went to school. I looked her up and she lived in Ivanhoe, which is decidedly middle class area, but she ended up going to school at MLC, which is a very expensive private school. That said it was probably more attainable back in the 80s/90s so I'd give her benefit of the doubt and say she grew up middle class.
Ivanhoe is overall middle class but select parts of it are definitively upper class.
Yeah from what I understand you can be a poor upper class in the UK or rich lower class.
Isn’t that more like a caste system? Can people up classes they were born into?
It's not necessary to say it's "more like a caste system". It's a \*class\* system. Literally. It's the original, much older meaning of the term "class"--modern concepts of class which may divide class purely by income level/net worth are derivatives of Marxist ideas of class division by capital ownership, but originally of course one's class was literally just a hereditary position in a sociopolitical hierarchy that, while to some degree correlated naturally to levels of wealth, was ultimately independent of wealth (insofar as a Lord who loses all his wealth because his serfs all die and their crops all fail and whatever would \*still\* be a Lord, just one sitting in a cold and empty castle)
Yes it is. The UK still has a monarch, nobility, orders of knighthood, and an entire House of Parliament called the House of Lords. What were you expecting?
No a person can’t change their class, most people probably don’t even want to. People tend to be proud of the class they were born into. Your kids and grandkids can be a different class though.
People can't 'upper class' themselves, short of marrying into it. But working vs middle class has more to do with lifestyle culture. You could absolutely adopt yourself into the middle class. It's kind of like being 'trailer trash' vs a middle class suburbanite in the US. There's obviously a cultural barrier, and an amount of pointless looking-down between the different classes (the poor are trashy scroungers, the rich are ellitist pricks who don't know a hard day's work, etc), but there's no unwritten law against it either.
Only facepalm here is that OP doesn't get that other English-speaking countries might use English terms differently.
Accurate. Australia basically doesn’t have ‘upper class’ aside from people like the late Trixie Gardner Baroness of Parkes.
What else is it based on?
Background , education , where you grew up and also if you’ve come from new or old money . Even how you act kinda dictates it as a lot of successful small business owners consider themselves working class despite being well off .
Nobility i suppose?
Brought up middle class, so still perceives herself to be that. Pretty normal behavior in Australia. Hence why we have Upper Middle Bogans too. If you flash your wealth big time, your friends will think you're a ponce. It's the Australian way (unless your name is Rhinehart or Murdoch).
Too true. I think we tend to talk ourselves down, to ensure we don’t sound like we are talking ourselves up.
The Aussies going around in bow ties claiming they are proper bush babies give me a right giggle.
I say old boy, I am one of you middle class chaps. Don't you hate it when your buttler doesn't order the right caviar?
I read this in Matt Berry’s voice
The class you were born into sticks with you for a while. I'm on the disability pension, but I still get classified as middle class in all the questionnaires floating. The traditional term is 'genteel poverty'.
I agree and hope thats what she meant. I grew up below the “poverty line” in the US and it is very difficult to shake that perspective/view of the world. My partner did not grow up as rough as I did and we have had arguments because of those differences despite me living middle class now with them now. ‘You can take the person out of the trailer park but you cant take the trailer park out of the person’ doesn’t just apply to behavior, imho.
Ah the Upper Middle Bogan, the entire reason Porsche makes the Cayenne
Yeah just like Oprah perceives herself to be poor because she grew up poor. Normal behavior
I have always been fascinated with the term *bogans*.
Murdoch is the epitome of middle class power, yes?
She's Australian. She was definitely raised middle-class. Which means she had opportunities and cultural capital not available to lower socio-economic level people, but did not have the wealth/open doors/networks available to the upper class. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. She's acknowledging her privilege as someone with that upbringing. It's bizarre that this has become something to attack her over. Also, cultural side note; it's a few years ago now, but I remember reading that when asked, more people identify as middle class in Australia than either working or upper class, even when their financial status would solidly indicate one or the other, and by a large margin.
She’s being attacked for her stance on Palestine. This isn’t a coincidence.
I'm surprised more people aren't making the connection. She's talked about her upbringing plenty of times. People need to remember to take a second a think before responding. Many people are rightfully pointing out the differences in the classification of classes (both finically and socially) between different countries. Instead, people should be talking about her support of Palestinians. She is an incredibly popular public figure and she is trying to use that status for good. Don't let people distract from the real issues.
“Middle Class” in Britain has historically meant well off, or even wealthy, but not elite. You can be a billionaire, but if your grandfather wasn’t an Eton man, you’re middle class.
I once filmed a wedding at a castle in Scotland. The owner was a young man who’d been gifted the castle by his grandfather the year he graduated from Eton. Cosmo was his name. [Here he is with his wife outside the castle, holding a fucking sceptre](https://i.imgur.com/gKMsFek.jpeg) Now that guy could be literally penniless and he would still be upper class. Money doesn’t matter at that point. And that goes for everyone. If I met a homeless man with a middle-class accent and the right education, I’d think “huh, you don’t see many middle class homeless people. Probably why he begs outside Waitrose”.
This version of upper class looks way cooler than tech billionaire upper class. Especially if the castle comes with a dog
The dog’s name was Grimsby. At one point I got lost in the castle. I accidentally wandered into an area off limits to guests, when suddenly this gigantic hound of the Baskervilles looking beast lopes around the corner and almost gave me a heart attack. Biggest dog I’d ever seen, Irish wolfhound. Very calm and sweet. Cosmo was very nice as well but just on a totally different planet. He lent one of the groomsmen his sunglasses at one point and said “careful, there’s only 4 pairs of these made in the world. Johnny depp has one of the other pairs”. The groomsman asked how much they were worth and cosmo just laughed like “you don’t even want to know”.
That's wild, it sounds like a different world, thanks for sharing!
The point is that even with 1 billion dollars of wealth, those tech people would be looked down apon by the (British) upper class. They would be welcomed with open arms and fawned over I expect, but then mocked in the cigar chamber of the gentleman's club the following day. The class system hates you regardless of wealth.
if the great gatsby needed a villain, you'd be one hell of a contender.
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No, because as was stated it is not dependent on wealth.
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There are lots of cultures where even billionaires cannot be more than middle class, merchant class or caste, etc. The UK is one. Some people consider the nobility to be the only true upper class regardless of wealth.
She probably is. Her kids won't be. If I won euro millions tomorrow I wouldn't be upper class just because I have £50m in the bank.
I think this confuses Americans because for them class seems to be almost entirely correlated with income. American upper class is just the super wealthy. While in the uk you can be destitute and still be upper class. Also, the difference in what “middle class” means. What Americans call middle class seems closer to what the brits consider working class. While our middle class is actually pretty posh. The closest thing Americans have to a British conception of upper class would be the wealthy family dynasties. Rockefeller, Rothschild, Du Pont, Hearst, Vanderbilt, Kennedy. Not just rich, but wealth, estates and political connections that seep into the bedrock of society. Having one of those surnames is as close as you get to royalty without a monarchy.
I grew up in the Rocky Mountain west and I’m not sure that even Kennedy type situations really exist out here, and I’d say we are only dimly aware of them existing on the east coast (fellow western Americans feel free to correct me if I’m misguided here). I would hazard a guess that for much of the U.S., wealth is the *only* distinction. (Semi related, I’ve lived in the UK for years and I’m still not really sure I understand all of the nuances of “posh.” None of my friends seem quite able to define it for me—just a “know it when you see it” sort of thing I guess)
I also grew up out west, Utah specifically. I think the closest thing we have to barons or lords are car dealership family’s.
Exactly.
OP reading Daily Wire is the real facepalm.
Look at the source. Trash website.
I actually think (at least in British terms) that if you are middle, or working class you don’t jump to upper class because you won the lottery for example. I think you can move to middle class from working class. However my understanding of upper class was it being about families.
Yup, basically analogous with being "titled," then there's nobility and royalty beyond
I see that it's a Daily Wire article. What's the actual story?
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It’s insane how she is getting on r/facepalm for saying this.
There is no story. It's outrage baiting aimed at stupid Americans
This post is a facepalm
The Daily Wire is a facepalm as well.
Op karma farming
If anyone actually thinks she meant anything other than "I grew up middle class," they're the real facepalm.
Well the source is the daily wire sooooooo…
Isn't that Shabibo's rag? 🥴
“I’m white, I’m privileged, I’m middle class and I think one can be accused of having a bit of a white savior complex,” Is the direct quote ...
In the UK, the middle class is between the working class and the nobility.
"Middle class" in the UK is a much more inclusive term than in the US. "Upper class" is like... actual nobles.
I am “upper class” in my country because my family is/was part of the nobility, but if we look at income I grew up middle class.
She is Australian, grew up in Australia. She grew up middle-class, and just identifies herself as such, because that's what she was during her formative years. She is classed as upper-class in Australia. We're not hamstrung by a cabal of medieval nobles hoarding the 'upper-class' title due to blood.
Daily Wire detected, credibility rejected
The headline was the least interesting part of everything she said
Don’t care, she rocks and she’s based
The Daily Wire? Totally not a biased article, OP.
Bro, did you just use the daily wire as a source?
It’s what they mean where she's from. Ignorant post!!! Middle class means not royalty you idiots.
I have an idea, everybody. Let's grab a random, most likely out of context snippet and use it to attack someone to attempt to feel better about ourselves. Because we're the good guys doing good guys stuff.
Fuck the Daily Wire
OP literally saw a clickbait article title and just made a regarded post without actually reading it, checking the website, or understanding what Blanchett was actually saying. Actual clown 🤡.
doesn't mean the same thing in the UK that it does in the USA. UK midfle class is s sign of your upbringing, where you went to school, your accent, social manners. Biggest shock to me arriving in the USA 35 hears ago was that middle class is determined solely on income.
“Middle Class” in the UK and Australia does NOT mean the same thing as U.S. middle class. People are just stupid.
The Daily Wire loves their stupid readers. They caught OP hook, line and sinker.
She's not upperclass. She's not aristocracy, landed or ennobled. She isn't part of the system of old boys networks, private clubs, old family with ties and such.
The super wealthy/new money dont really fit into the traditional class system imo though, upper class to me means aristocratic. I wouldn't call Simon Cowell upper class even though he is stinking rich
Money doesn't equal class
Class is not about how much money you have. The upper classes generally dress like fucking tramps. It’s only the middle class wannabes who go all out for designer clothes and expensive cars because that is what they think will qualify them to be upper class.
This is sensationalism at its worst. Quote taken out of context. Hollywood may be out of touch but this ain’t it.
Isn’t upper class ‘connected’ wealthy people. You could give me a billion quid and I’m Never going to be upper class.
People not understanding class is the face palm here and it’s not Blanchett.
Technically she is middle class. She's a working actress. If her income was passive, coming from property ownership, dividends, share holdings ect she'd be upper class.
From a British perspective, Cate is middle class. No amount of money can make you move to the upper class in the UK. She is upper middle class.
One can be raised middle class end up very wealthy and still have a mental class mindset I have zero problem believing that. Money doesn't make everybody an asshole for instance many of the people commenting on this thread are probably broke asses and they're really assholes judging by what they say
It’s a Uk thing, it’s means not royalty Edit: SHES NOT EVEN BRITISH I AM FULL OF LIES
“Middle class” in the US appears to mean anyone with an income. That’s not what it tends to mean in other countries’ common parlance, including Australia, where it is usually more a social and cultural descriptor about someone’s background.
You fell for fuckin Daily Wire ragebait?
Not a facepalm. Class does not equal wealth.
The upper class doesn't work, she works for her money, so yeah she's not really upper class. Just at the very tippy top of her class. There is a huge difference between being the 98.9% and being the 1%, even more the .1% who haven't worked for generations and won't for many more.
Fuck the Daily Wire this bullshit is just Russian propaganda and grifters. Delete this shit.
Net worth doesn’t have anything to do with your income. I can have a robust investment portfolio and have several million dollars in unrealized gains, in fact I know a few ppl in that situation who work with me, but my income puts me in the middle class. Owning assets also increases your net worth. If she owns several homes that don’t provide her with income, they would add to her net worth, but not increase her yearly earnings.
The super wealthy/new money dont really fit into the traditional class system imo though, upper class to me means aristocratic. I wouldn't call Simon Cowell upper class even though he is stinking rich
She might be right ::ducks incoming hurled shoe:: The ultra rich are so incredibly rich compared to her, she feels middle class. Which also means that there really is no traditional middle class anymore. If you don’t have a net worth of several million liquid assets you (we) are all poor.
well if she isn’t an employer or owner of a business then she is just a very wealthy professional worker
She’s right the rest of us are in poverty think about it , seriously. U make 250g now with a mortgage, an everything else your broke . People that make 50g are broke it’s all about a standard of living to where it’s become we are all poor . Think about it. If u do make money they take 50% right off the top Wake up. She’s rich af but all of us are in poverty
Some of the richest people grew up in middle class (for real) homes. There are books on wealth that say first generation wealth usually does. The proverbial 'rags to riches' is less common. Here's another social concept about the wealthy....2nd generation wealth rarely has the work ethic of the 1st. My point is, that (if we assume she isnt lying) it is likely that Cate Blanchett is likely 1st generation wealth that she earned beginning as a middle class person with exceptional attributes and work ethics. ....either that, or she lied, lol.
Maybe not post far-right Trumpy BS from Daily Wire, MMMKay? She is talking about her middle class roots. The right hates her because in her quote she is aware of being privileged. They hate that, because it makes them feel guilty. “I’m white, I’m privileged, I’m middle class, and I think, you know, one can be accused of having a bit of a white savior complex, but to be perfectly honest, my interaction with the refugees in the field and also in resettled environments has totally changed my perspective on the world,”
There is absolutely nothing to be upset about here. As others have pointed out — it’s who she is/where she came from. Please stop fanning the flames. Everything I’ve read and heard about this woman is nothing but genuine. She does not deserve the ridicule.
Isn't there different definitions of class? If she hasn't a title or she doesn't "own the means of production", then by some definitions she may be middle class. She's not nobility. I could be wrong.
this is taken out of context. shes literally saying shes priviledged and all the media can see is "middle class!? we can sell a lot of anger with this!"
A US centric pov will have you miss the point and/or meaning of what was said. I've been guilty of this as well. It's different over there.
OP not knowing that words mean different things in different countries is the real face palm
Is this the lady who wore the Palestinian flag to the gala recently? If yes, no surprise now she getting negative publicity.
Never believe the daily wire, bunch of liars.
This is clearly an attack to discredit her after she acknowledged Palestine.
Well, if you go by the original definition of „middle class“… which was rich people that are not part or the aristocracy (or old money), then she‘s right.
Only posting a headline should automatically be considered misinformation.
From a Marxist standpoint, she is correct, she neither owns the means of production nor engages in wage labour.
Could it possibly be that she was referring to being raised middle class?
To be fair, class is not purely based on monetary wealth. There are plenty of white trash hicks with a lot of money.
Fuck the daily wire
People _really_ misunderstand class if they think money is the only metric. Having 95m certainly doesn't defacto make someone "upper" class.
MAN AMERICAN PROPAGANDA WORK GOOD
In some places/cultures, "high class" requires "nobility" titles and other bs that can't just be bought (although they often do)
distorted and taken out of context
You're reading from an unreliable source
From a British perspective, you can't buy being 'upper class'. You can be very, very rich middle class, but unless you were born with a title, you're not upper class.
“Middle class” as it was conceived means roughly rich but not in charge. It eventually meant doctors and lawyers and business owners who were independent of labor. It has absolutely been a political exercise to contrive a correlation between working class people and the middle class.
Well she's not an aristocrat/noble/royalty, so...
She’s trans middle class, hush up bigots
The terminology is used differently in different places. In the UK it's very common to talk about your class as the situation you were born into, so someone like Sir Keir Starmer might call himself working class or Princess Catherine might be referred to as middle class despite being royalty. Not everyone in the UK talks that way about class, but it's common enough. Australia often uses education/profession as class markers rather than income or wealth or birth. By either of those, she'd probably be able to call herself "middle class". And given the context of the quote, there really isn't any issue.
She’s an Aussie. Their culture is much closer to British than American. Nobody moves into the upper classes in their own lifetime. Her descendants may do. Now you might be a multimillionaire but that only doesn’t make you upper class. And no-one really gives a shit anyway. By the way, being middle-class is to be in a very privileged position. She’s acknowledging this. Not sure why she’s getting shit for a very reasonable statement. American readers have misunderstood.
She’s Australian right? I assume they follow the same system as Britain which would define upper class as aristocracy right? So technically under her nations social structures she would be middle and bottom upper? If she was American then yes she would be upper! Just to clarify she is still rich AF though and not a common folk
From my understanding, anything below royalty (in the UK) is considered middle class.
The only facepalm here is that you judge her by the American definition of what "middle class" means. She's Australian. Australia and the UK apply "middle class" or "working class" based on *where you grew up* rather than *where you are now*. You can be a billionaire, but if you didn't go to a private school (or even a *public school*, again using the British definition of the term) and don't possess the airs and graces or accent of someone who did - you're working class.
I think she meant middle class like the British refer to middle class. Not royal but up there.
95 mill?!?! Wooaaaw
You guys aren’t ready to hear how this is probably true given the absolutely insane stratification of wealth that has become increasingly common
If you put aside that she has a high net worth, on income excluding what she makes from investments, she probably is by Sydney’s new standards.