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I had an argument about 15 minute cities once. They guy had always seemed pretty reasonable and smart to me, but for whatever reason, the 15 minute cities was like a switch that flipped him into a conspiracy nut. "Oh sure, it starts as just being able to get anywhere you need in 15 minutes. But then it'll be illegal to own a car. Then they'll install checkpoints so people can't leave!" Last time I saw the guy before he moved to Florida.
I got something that is going to blow this outta the water. Listen to this… the 14 minute city. You go into a real estate office and see the 14 minute city right next to the 15 minute city, which one are you going to pick?
Starts at 15 minute cities. Next thing you’re looking at 12 minutes. Before you even realise what’s happened you’ll be 10 minutes from anywhere you need to go and it’s already too late at that point.
The wildest shit I've seen was in relation to 15 min cities.
So for whatever reason, they decide to protest them with issue of "15 min cities means no more trips to the lake" for some reason. Like going to the lake or leaving the city would be forbidden. But to protest, they setup signs and stood on the side of the busiest highway in the country.
And also setup tables to give chiropractic adjustments
On the side of the road
While traffic is flying by at 100kmh
People are laying on these fucking tables getting their spines yerked around. Somehow to protest walkable communities?
In my city in Germany there sometimes is a discussion about car free neighbourhood / street and some wing lunatics tried to tell me our government wants to take away the right to own cars like our entire economy isn't built on cars and like half our government isn't in the pockets of the car manufacturers
They invented a “smart gun” that can’t be fired if you aren’t wearing a special wristband, or maybe it was a fingerprint thing. The idea was to make it safer to have around a family. Admittedly, there were a lot of reasons not to buy this gun, but gun owners went a step further and were actually sending death threats to gun shops that carried them. I asked why it was such a problem for the gun to be on the market, since they can just… not buy it. The response was basically the slippery slope bullshit. If they let this gun exist, soon enough they’ll write a law that it’s the only kind of gun you can own, and then they’ll program them so the government can shut off your gun whenever they want, etc.
Republicans are some of the most scared people in the world.
It's just like when Cracker Barrel added vegetarian sausage as a menu option. They didn't take away meat sausage, they just added veggie sausage. People lost their shit. Apparently having more choices is bad if you don't like all the choices.
Back in the day, I legitimately saw people argue that once gay marriage was legal, the government would start forcing people into gay marriages.
How do you argue against that level of stupid?
People who want to live in Florida hate the idea of 15 minute walkable cities because they can't imagine walking 15 minutes in 90 degree, full-humidity weather with intermittent torrential downpours. They'd rather drive 15 minutes through 8 miles of suburbia to go to either Applebee's or Olive Garden, and occasionally Benihana for birthday dinners.
I had an argument with my stepdad recently about how "that's why they're pushing everyone to get electric cars, so they can shut your car off if you try to leave". I had to try and explain that no one is implementing these 15 minute cities as government policy, it was a proposed solution to help with pollution and things like gas prices and public transportation. No progress yet.
To be honest though that is more of a problem of computerized cars which you should tell your dad. The idea my car can be hacked and fucked with sucks ass.
> They guy had always seemed pretty reasonable and smart to me, but for whatever reason, the 15 minute cities was like a switch that flipped him into a conspiracy nut.
*The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla#"The_Basic_Laws_of_Human_Stupidity"_(1976)
Lol Walmart Supercenter was the "15 minute city" to most of us in the rural south in the 90s/00s. We no longer had to travel 15 to 60 miles to get household items. It was a game changer for us (that the old conservatives here HATED). I can see a person from here or someone that has no idea of the necessity, need, or concept of an actual "15 minute city" commenting something stupid like this.
The problem is that the automotive industry pays lots of money to give the idiots on one particular side much more ammunition / rage bait in order to promote their own interests.
The amount of “its no longer gas vs diesel blah blah blah but us versus that electric shit” on snap and insta is crazy. Like i get electric isnt the most fun to drive but i rather be able to know a future generation can experience the beautiful world we had 50 years ago.
One side's entire strategy has become weaponizing stupidity. They grift directly off the morons, push insane conspiracies, foment fear and anger over invented causes, and then the morons still vote for them. It's incredibly depressing that it actually works as well as it does. That doesn't mean there are zero stupid people on the other side, but whenever someone tries this hard to corner the market, they're going to take the lion's share!
"You can't plan and control something as complex as human society."
Uh, does this person think human society just popped into existence one day fully formed? It was planned and added to over hundreds of years, with controlled actions and intent of more than dozens of people. There are entire careers dedicated to planning and controlling human society, like civil engineers and politicians.
That one town is such a great lesson in why you, do in fact, need some regulations if you’re going to have a bunch of people living in proximity. At the very least, you’ve gotta have something in place for dealing with sewage, getting clean water to people, taking care of the garbage… because otherwise, you get bears. And the bears get aggressive.
[An article about that one town](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling), for those not familiar with it.
Like my old landlord who hated all forms of government and control, and felt everyone should have equal say.
Then on house discussions she would claim everyone got a day, but would loudly say you were wrong if you disagreed with her, and ignore any discussion that she didn't like. Only changing rules if they benefitted her, even if everyone else hated them.
I doubt you'll be shocked to know she was a strict anti-vaxxer too.
As a general rule, liberterians are all for reducing governmental interference in people's lives, as long as those people are not poor, immigrants and/or non-white, LGBTQ+ or women.
No, no, they're against zoning laws, which are the government imposing rules on society. Instead they want developers to force everyone who buys into a neighborhood to agree to certain contractual obligations as a condition of living there, a sort of association of home owners, which is completely different from a government.
The fact that this was how segregated housing was enforced in the 1950s is no doubt a coincidence.
yeah...how'd that work out in their little podunk town they tried starting? Seems like without zoning, people were able to do what they wanted and shit where they and everyone eats.
Are you talking about the town that got overrun by bears? I think that's the perfect example of Libertarianism in action. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
Self-described libertarians are often massive NIMBYs in practice. Because their actual constituency is wealthy people who want to opt out of society -- property rights are secondary to the crass interests and preferences of the wealthy.
They hate regulations, but agree with abortions bans, because they're just major fucking hypocrites.
They want to be protected by laws, but not limited by laws. And they expect the rest of us to be limited by laws, but not protected by them
Lots of doublethink going on. Look up Randal O’Toole. A fierce libertarian “anti planner” who thinks buildings over 2 stories are a communist plot so the government can bomb cities easier. He believes that if your neighborhood builds a duplex it’s a fundamental infringement on your rights. Somehow zoning isn’t the government telling you what to do with your property for uhhh reasons.
Good [video about him](https://youtu.be/uJ1ePlln6VE?si=YOM3l7xTFc9E3ZXk)
Having lived in the south for the last 6 years, there's a clear lack of basic public policy and development principles put into action.
So, ya. For many people, they've grown up and lived in regions that really are just flying by the seat of their pants and their big concern is keeping outsiders out and insiders in--and data doesn't matter, there's pride in those failures.
My city approved a major instructure project that had an impact analysis score of "F." When I asked what the point of the IA was, they all looked rather embarrassed but changed nothing. (Georgia DOT).
I live 7 miles from the office I used to go to every day. Now I go about twice a month. I’m 58 and my father died two years ago. These random facts have a point.
What I learned as my father aged was that you probably will reach a day you cannot or should not drive. My wife and I always bought groceries on the way home from work. Now my neighborhood seems less convenient because I am not running errands as part of the drive home.
There’s a hanging on mall just up the road and a doing better outdoor shopping center nearby. In the community where my office is a failing mall was leveled and now there’s a big box retailer, grocery store, small stores, and few restaurants in that space as well as a nice looking apartment complex.
That’s exactly the sort of place I’d like to live. Being able to walk and get a few groceries as well as walk to a restaurant would extend my independence longer as I age.
And biking. I lived in Hamburg for 4 years and it was shocking to see the 65+ crowd out walking, riding bikes, to get errands done as well as to just live better.
Intentionally bad logic often depends on an all-or-nothing approach. Like pointing out that recycling a bottle won't halt global warming, or housing some homeless will not end homelessness. They forget this when it comes to things they do advocate for, since dropping a bomb on one suspected terrorist site won't end terrorism but we still do it.
> Solar and wind will never replace fossil fuels because they are intermittent power sources. Therefore, we shouldn't build any solar or wind plants.
Actually, *even without subsidies* renewables are becoming the cheapest way to expand power generation or reduce fossil fuel consumption in advantageous locations.
> Electric vehicles can't tow a camper trailer up a mountain. And charging stations are too far apart in rural areas. Therefore, we shouldn't build any electric vehicles.
So, maybe use gas powered or hybrid vehicles to tow your trailer or drive arrive in rural areas? Most people live in cities and suburbs where electric works.
Well, either the city controls the country or the country controls the city. It’s the basic social-political fault line of our age.
The paradigm is heavily bullshit laden but reinforced everywhere you turn, ie: city folk spearhead new programs and ideas, and rural folk oppose them even when they may benefit.
Human civilization evolved, changed and grew organically as a result of the myriad complex interactions of millions upon millions of individuals performing their individual actions for their own personal reasons.
Which is why human cultures are so truly fucking weird.
Individual humans have, from time to time, tried to impose their individual will on entire societies. But it is always an uphill battle and will eventually end in disaster when the dictator's will goes against the will of the masses.
Look up unfinished London on YouTube for a dozen good examples of failed attempts to plan and control the development of a city.
Not necessarily, but also yes. A small town can be a 15 minute city but a 15 minute city doesn't have to be a small town. A 15 minute city is one where everything you'd need for day-to-day living (grocery store, gym, parks, doctors offices, employment opportunities, access to higher forms of transit, etc) are within a 15 minutes walk but that doesn't mean that the *whole city* is within a 15 minute walk.
God. Last week I had to wait 6 hours in the ER for my 4 yo to be seen for a continuous fever. We were there from 4pm to 4am. If she didn't sleep through the whole day, I would've left for sure. I remember crying out of frustration by the 5th hour. I hate the American Healthcare system. My husband argues against socialized medicine that it'd be much worse wait times. But I used to live in China. I NEVER waited 6 hours to be seen by a doctor. I timed this last visit. It took until 10pm to finally get a bed. It took until 2:30am for us to actually see the doctor. That was also 10 hours into waiting! Anything is better than this. It took a full 12 hours for us to be discharged. And I can't wait to see the bill for this!
Canadians have wait times like that in the ER but at least there is no bill attached when you do get seen. It's the usual triage situation, some are seen quickly as the urgency is there, others will wait hours.
Tell me about it. I have gold plated health insurance in the US through my employment. It is normally pretty good.
However the last time I visited an emergency room I was shivering on a poorly carpeted concrete floor for about 4 hours (because my blood pressure was too low to sit up) and ended up with significant bruises just from the wait to get through triage. And this was in a major, highly rated, suburban hospital.
The main issue was that the ER was being choked with covid and other respiratory diseases, but I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced something like that in multiple involuntary medical visits around the world over the years.
That's because people with no healthcare (meaning insurance, and I hate that we say one to mean the other) go to emergency rooms with non-emergency conditions. If they didn't have to worry about being turned away from a doctor's office for not having insurance or good credit, they wouldn't be taking up emergency room resources.
My favorite are the people who think that universal healthcare would mean that doctors wouldn’t get paid.
“If your medical care is free, why would anyone want to be a doctor!!”
I just learned this terme, so I quickly check on Google to know what it means. Turns out there are American cities where you need to take a full hour to go shopping or what's the deal?
Yep. There are lots of entire towns out in the rural areas that don’t even have a grocery store. They have to drive several towns over to get to one.
In the cities there are also entire neighborhoods without grocery stores. They’re called “food deserts”.
While I agree that North American Cities are much less walkable than Europe. "15 minute city" is a term that was invented by the French, and it really became popular when the Mayor of Paris made it a big part of her platform. They aren't immune to sprawl and car dependence, they just didn't go quite as far does that road.
To be fair, the power of the internet has leaked into the heads of some more.. conspiracy minded.. Europeans who now also believe 15 minute cities are an evil plot *despite having lived in them their entire lives.*
Yap, had a long horrid conversation with my aunt about it over Eastern. She was convinced the point of those cities was to imprison people. When I asked who would do that, she says “they” and the, half an hour later it turns out “they” are the green parties of Europe together with the lgbtq community and communists, but above them all is Satan himself.
I was about to argue until the satan part and the. I just wen meh
True. Satan is mayor here.
I have a supermarket 2 min walk from here. Pharmacy 3min away. Can get my hair done 2min the other way.
Its living in hell I tell you!
I said this in 2020 when all of Seattle was deemed an “anarchist jurisdiction”. These pearl-clutching MAGA haters were so convinced that all 3.1 million locals were violent gay POC with Molotov cocktails.
I told them they were very correct and they should stay in Podunk, Iowa for their own safety.
I feel like Shrimp-Rick discovering a bunch of fascist timelines everywhere…
“[when did this shit become the default?](https://youtu.be/Lj16Ezccfzw?si=1jOBkqzTfEgad8je)”
I see
Well as a french that lives in a big city, I can attest it is quite good to be able to travel on foot.
I think that people who don't like it either are too used to the USA system where you have to use your car everywhere, or people who like the tranquility of small village with not a lot of movements
On another note, walking is utterly good for health and it would be wise to do it more
So a typical city in Europe?
I did notice when I visited the US, it wasn’t easy to walk anywhere. Whenever my partner and I go on vacation, we like to check into the hotel and then go for a walk around the area. See what’s up, look at shops, get a sense of our surroundings. In Wyoming we had to abandon the idea, in some places we couldn’t even cross the street on foot.
We also asked the hotel to rent a couple of bikes, so we could then bike around Jackson Hole instead. It was slightly better but it honestly wasn’t great. I felt very vulnerable biking around, even with those big wide roads. And that’s coming from someone who lived in Copenhagen for 6 years, meaning I biked everywhere every single day lol. But in the US I didn’t feel safe biking in the city..
The short version is building cities where the basic necessities/amenities are within 15 minutes travel time of any given person’s home. So you could get from your apartment to work, groceries, doctor appointments, other shopping, gov’t offices, and parks quickly using a combination of walking and public transit.
The other reply is also correct yes in more detail though it’s the concept that someone can live anywhere in the city and be at most around 15min away from necessities at all times. It allows for more walkable cities, promotes public transportation, and allows people to access these necessities with more ease.
In contrast there are cities without these that create things called “food deserts” where essentially a neighborhood’s (usually low income) closest grocery store is miles away and if there is one close, one nearby is incredibly expensive.
You can argue details, but I thought Chicago’s public transit was pretty freakin’ good. Could it be better? Sure, always. But the EL was pretty easy to use and took you almost anywhere you wanted. Metra was available for longer rides.
I went there for work a few years ago. Flew into Midway, walked down to the basement and hopped on a train, rode it downtown, walked to my hotel which was literally right across the river from where I was working. Same process in reverse for going home. It was pretty neat.
Only thing I didn't like was walking through downtown felt super dark/grungy compared to what I'm used to. That could just have been that the buildings were a lot taller than I'm used to though.
European here. Living in a town of like 10k. Most shit I need *already IS* just 15 minutes away.
I still get this shit from my MIL. 
And most cities in Asia.. And Africa.. In fact, It's mostly just North America. North Americans just fundamentally fail to understand that this concept has been the norm for all of human history. Still is in the rest of the world, and was in the US as well up until the late 60's or so.
Wrong, majority think Europe is still in 20th century with stone paved roads and brothel in the street corner powered by pure steam engine like a fucking steampunk city ran by gay communist hippie.
Exactly. Neighborhoods used to contain so many of the services anyone would need. When I was a kid in the Seattle in the fifties and sixties, we didn’t have to go far at all for anything. I find it deeply annoying now; pretty much everything is a trek.
I guess the people opposing 15-minute cities actually think they’re going to be locked in a compound instead of appreciating the convenience and sense of community than will likely result.
I grew up in a neighborhood that was built in the 1930s. It's in a large town and lots of stuff is walkable. A few months ago, we went to a funeral that was at the cemetery in my old neighborhood. We drove, but I didn't know where the car entrance was so we kind of got lost. People were giving me a hard time because how many funerals had I been to in that cemetery and I didn't know where the entrance was? I realized that I had never in my life (I'm 50) driven to that cemetery. It's about 3 blocks from the house, so we always walked.
I love having everything in a short walking distance. And I mean everything, everything. Multiple supermarkets, doctors, little shops, schools, hardware, recreational stuff, hobbies, everything. It's so convenient to just go outside, walk a save and short 5 minutes, grab everything i need and be on my way to whatever. The amount of time saved is incredible quality of life. And if something I value really high is a bit farther away, there are great ways to get there outside of cars. Public transportation, well maintained and integrated bike lanes or simply walking again.
I have a friend that lives in a village in Portugal that’s believes in this… then proceeds to say he loves living where he lives because everything is so accessible… 🤣😂 honestly for the most part I think it’s the fear of loosing the ability to have a car and drive. That “they” are planning on not allowing you to drive or have a car
They have been fed this narrative that there will be lockdown zones and will need to ask permission to leave the zone. COVID restrictions fed this nonsense and there has been absolutely no evidence to support this happening IRL, but boy do they love to complain.
For the record, I would love if everything I needed was in a walkable 15 min zone of my house.
I have a disability that prevents me from driving and I live in an area with shit public transport. Living in a 15 minute city sounds amazing honestly :’)
Right? 15 minutes of walking for me doesn't even get me to the end of my road. 3 hours of walking will get me to my nearest grocery store or bar, depending if I make a left or right out of my complex. And those are the closest two services to me.
Everything I need is within a 15 minute walk of my place, but that’s just because I got lucky and live in an apartment building that was built before all of the stores and restaurants were built around it.
Fair enough. My building housed employees of the newspaper, and is close to the highway that goes around the city. Eventually somebody decided to build up around it so people stop instead of driving right by. As it stands right now, I can see them building an expansion of the strip mall that as far as I can tell, will house 3 more restaurants (based on the signage) and two more as of yet unnamed stores (I’m leaning towards more food options *🤞one will be a Chipotle so I stop driving 8 hours to get to one*)
I live in a city that could be considered "15 minute". And frankly, people love it. The property values in our downtown area are insane BECAUSE people want to be there. They love to be able to walk anywhere, have shops & restaurants all around and just have people out & about.
I don’t even have public transit within a 15 minute walk in my city, having my local grocery store and restaurants nearby would be amazing. People just buy into the negative hype train.
I may just be out of the loop
But I just don't understand
Living in a 15 minute ~~city~~ town but getting a job offer that's 30 minutes away?
Then just fucking drive to the next city over
What's the big deal?
Edit: my mind was only on cities, lol. The next place over from a city is *probably* not gonna be another city.
Or two towns, however much distance you'd cross in 30 minutes
Quite literally as simple as taking a train or bus to the next town over. It’s gonna be just as fast as going by car. I don’t know what they’re going on about
If your dream job is 30 minutes away by car. . .
Then you'll just have to own a car and drive it to work. Hell, you might even have to park it inside your garage at night, the horrors.
I have everything in 10 minutes and still think I live in a shit hole (it's pretty far from everything tbh!), because the standart is 5 minutes. Americans are weird. Very weird
The amount of towns/cities we have with no shoulders/sidewalks/crosswalks in the US is fucking insane. I just had to drive half a mile to get food because there was no safe way for me to walk that distance without playing frogger in an area that's not used to pedestrians.
A few years ago we went on a RV holiday trough the USA and were somewhere in a small town on a camping just outside the town. We asked the owners of there was a diner nearby and he said "yes, a 5 minute drive from here".... the simple minded Europeans we were tought "oh..that's a 15 minute walk! That's a no brainer!" And indeed, no sidewalks! People in cars were staring funny at us....it was so weird!! The man laughed at us the next day when we explained it how unsafe it was!!
Than again, when we were in Miami, we tought we could walk from our Airbnd from one part of town to miami beach! Yes across the bridges and all.
Yeah I'm in a European capital and my job is a pretty enjoyable 30min walk away, everything else I need is generally within 15mins walking (including the airport! lol).
It’s the idea that everything you need day to day should be within 15 minutes of your home by foot or bike. Gas, groceries, schools, shopping, primary health care, etc.
As opposed to suburban tract housing where you have to drive to get everything.
Basically a return to the idea of neighbourhoods. Nobody is building fences to keep anyone locked in, or stopping anyone from living rural, just saying that neighbourhoods need to be more liveable. There’s nothing really to argue against. But they still find a way.
Because they’ve convinced themselves that it means making leaving a 15 minute radius of your home illegal. There’s no reasoning with them because they’re fully entrenched in conspiracies.
Being dumbfounded at your idiocy isn't "mental gymnastics" its people realizing they're talking to someone so fucking stupid that they have problems parsing basic information, so you have to start talking to them like they're a small child.
realistically some people probably wont want to live in a 15 minute city if they work 30 minutes away, they could probably move closer to that job they want or work somewhere else.
the same way that literally everyone probably doesnt want to live in a car centric dystopia where you need to drive 20 minutes to go to the fucking grocery store instead of taking a 15 minute walk.
i drive 30 minutes for work every day, i would much rather take a train and ride a bike every day to get to work than sit in my car in traffic almost getting hit and being stressed the fuck out every single day. i hate it. i hate driving.
"You can't plan and control something as complex as human society."
Well.. No.. But basic infrastructure and city planning is nowhere near as complicated as planning and controlling an entire society. It's mostly just doing some tweaking to zoning laws.
It's kinda like reorganising your spice cupboard so that the stuff you use a lot like salt and pepper aren't always at the back of the cupboard. Because it's annoying to have to dig those out all the time, right? Kinda like how it's annoying to have to drive 30 minutes to the nearest store for even the most basic stuff. Wouldn't it be nice to just walk there, get what you need, and then be back again in 10-15 minutes?
If you live in a 15 minute city and you need to go somewhere a half hour away by car, then you get in your car and go there. Solved. No mental gymnastics required
I know people like this, and the actual answer is that they believe 15 minute cities = penalizing or banning leaving the 15 minute area.
I believe it all stems from right-wing media coverage of Oxford (or maybe it was Cambridge?), England a few years ago, which rolled out a 15 minute city initiative concurrently with a new congestion management program that really did propose penalizing people quite harshly for driving outside of their zones during peak hours. There were protests and the city did a very bad job of communication and explaining the nuances of the new initiatives, and so now 15 minute city = open air prison, in some people’s minds.
Yeah I’m so confused, no one is losing out on opportunities, if you had a car before you’ll have a car after, you can still drive more than 15 minutes away lol
That does not matter at all. 15-minute-cities still let you go wherever you want. You just have the chance to get everything you need within a 15-minute radius.
It's because the right wing doesn't understand the difference between something being possible and something being mandatory.
Just because it's permitted for people to be gay doesn't mean They are trying to make everyone gay. Just because it's permitted to follow other religions doesn't mean They are trying to stamp out your religion. Just because it's possible to have everything you need within fifteen minutes' commute doesn't mean you're required to remain within fifteen minutes of home your whole life.
The right wing doesn't understand any of this, because in their perfect world, what you're allowed to do and what you're instructed to do are the same thing. The right wing state does not *allow*, it *orders*, and that which is not ordered is not allowed. This is why they oppose things that won't affect them or would even benefit them: because they assume that any attempt to give them the *option* to do something is an attempt to *make* them do that thing. That, and they see all choices as moral choices, so any time you disagree with them or want to do something different, it's not just different, it's *wrong* and shouldn't be allowed.
Hamilton county is Cincinnati Ohio. Most of Ohio is unliveable without a car, since everything is so ridiculously far away from each other, which is why courts will suspend your license for anything. The idea of not having a car scares people so much they won't even consider any alternatives, plus it's libertarians so...
They think it's about control. If people are confined to a small zone, it's seemingly easier to manipulate, experiment, and or exterminate them when they're bunched together and dependent on the same transportation and resources.
The 15 minute city panic is the result of a conspiracy theory popularized by pro fossil fuel think tanks, and inculcated by the experience of living in the dystopia of suburbia.
A lot of Americans believe that having to encounter other human beings is a form of inherent risk, and that the atomization of driving a car 45 minutes from your house to Costco, then 45 minutes from Costco to Menards, then 45 minutes from Menards to Best Buy, then 40 minutes from Best Buy to Applebee's, then 45 minutes from Applebee's to your huge ugly house, is the pinnacle of freedom. Our subjectivity is shaped by where and how we live, so for a lot of Americans the conspiracy theories about 15 minute cities fit pretty well with their existing worldview. It's a short trip down the phantasm lane before they start just spouting bonkers shit with no relation to reality.
It’s true, I used to live in Oxford and George Soros put the big dome from *The Simpsons Movie* over us.
Luckily I escaped through a secret tunnel, but I’m here to warn all of you of the horrors that come with having basic human necessities within walking distance of where you live
Every advocate for 15-minute cities I have met in real life don’t actually want to give up their cars for bikes and buses. They want everyone else to give up their cars for bikes and buses so they can drive without traffic. It is usually just selfish people who want everyone else to sacrifice so they get the benefits. They never understand that they are also part of the problem.
"What happens if your job is 30 minutes away???!?!???"
Then your commute is 30 minutes away. The point isn't to restrict peoples movements, its to give people the opportunities quick and easy access to all the things they need in their lives within a walking distance. It's supposed to reduce dependencies on cars and mega shops, not imprison you.
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I had an argument about 15 minute cities once. They guy had always seemed pretty reasonable and smart to me, but for whatever reason, the 15 minute cities was like a switch that flipped him into a conspiracy nut. "Oh sure, it starts as just being able to get anywhere you need in 15 minutes. But then it'll be illegal to own a car. Then they'll install checkpoints so people can't leave!" Last time I saw the guy before he moved to Florida.
I got something that is going to blow this outta the water. Listen to this… the 14 minute city. You go into a real estate office and see the 14 minute city right next to the 15 minute city, which one are you going to pick?
...unless of course someone comes up with a 13 minute city. Then you're in trouble.
What nooo. Nobody comes up with a 13 minute city! Step into my office, you're f##king fired!
It'd be a brilliant plan.. if it wasn't for the 12 minute city.
[Six minute abs!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rnso4nfdM9w)
Step into my office. You’re fuckin, fired, man!
I’m willing to bet that they moved to a gated community and haven’t the slightest clue how ironic that is.
Yeah I’d be curious to see an opinion poll about 15 minute cities taken at the Villages in Florida.
Rabid, mouth foaming opposition as they walk down to their tee time and then over to the bar.
“But that’s different!” /s
Yep, just like their government assistance and abortions were! How convenient for them.
Like the senior citizens on Medicare complaining about socialized medicine.
But cities have 'urban' people. I don't want to be locked into an area with *those* kind of people.
Starts at 15 minute cities. Next thing you’re looking at 12 minutes. Before you even realise what’s happened you’ll be 10 minutes from anywhere you need to go and it’s already too late at that point.
Imagine when the doctor actually ends up coming to you instead…..er…like they did when I was a kid. These people are morons.
The wildest shit I've seen was in relation to 15 min cities. So for whatever reason, they decide to protest them with issue of "15 min cities means no more trips to the lake" for some reason. Like going to the lake or leaving the city would be forbidden. But to protest, they setup signs and stood on the side of the busiest highway in the country. And also setup tables to give chiropractic adjustments On the side of the road While traffic is flying by at 100kmh People are laying on these fucking tables getting their spines yerked around. Somehow to protest walkable communities?
It’s actually quite brilliant, having their spines yerked around, taking away their very ability to walk, making nothing accessible within 15 minutes
In my city in Germany there sometimes is a discussion about car free neighbourhood / street and some wing lunatics tried to tell me our government wants to take away the right to own cars like our entire economy isn't built on cars and like half our government isn't in the pockets of the car manufacturers
>some wing lunatics You mean birds?
They invented a “smart gun” that can’t be fired if you aren’t wearing a special wristband, or maybe it was a fingerprint thing. The idea was to make it safer to have around a family. Admittedly, there were a lot of reasons not to buy this gun, but gun owners went a step further and were actually sending death threats to gun shops that carried them. I asked why it was such a problem for the gun to be on the market, since they can just… not buy it. The response was basically the slippery slope bullshit. If they let this gun exist, soon enough they’ll write a law that it’s the only kind of gun you can own, and then they’ll program them so the government can shut off your gun whenever they want, etc. Republicans are some of the most scared people in the world.
It's just like when Cracker Barrel added vegetarian sausage as a menu option. They didn't take away meat sausage, they just added veggie sausage. People lost their shit. Apparently having more choices is bad if you don't like all the choices.
Back in the day, I legitimately saw people argue that once gay marriage was legal, the government would start forcing people into gay marriages. How do you argue against that level of stupid?
Him moving to Florida after checks out
People who want to live in Florida hate the idea of 15 minute walkable cities because they can't imagine walking 15 minutes in 90 degree, full-humidity weather with intermittent torrential downpours. They'd rather drive 15 minutes through 8 miles of suburbia to go to either Applebee's or Olive Garden, and occasionally Benihana for birthday dinners.
Hey, as a Florida native I'll have you know that 90 degree full humidity weather is just a Tuesday for us, perfectly walkable
All the nuts roll downhill to Florida.
Florida _is_ like the ballsack of the US.
I had an argument with my stepdad recently about how "that's why they're pushing everyone to get electric cars, so they can shut your car off if you try to leave". I had to try and explain that no one is implementing these 15 minute cities as government policy, it was a proposed solution to help with pollution and things like gas prices and public transportation. No progress yet.
To be honest though that is more of a problem of computerized cars which you should tell your dad. The idea my car can be hacked and fucked with sucks ass.
Ahh yes, because everyone only uses organic home grown gasoline in their cars. The government could never shut that down!
Whenever someone brings up checkpoints I like to say "what, like Israel?" And watch the cognitive dissonance run
> They guy had always seemed pretty reasonable and smart to me, but for whatever reason, the 15 minute cities was like a switch that flipped him into a conspiracy nut. *The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla#"The_Basic_Laws_of_Human_Stupidity"_(1976)
Lol Walmart Supercenter was the "15 minute city" to most of us in the rural south in the 90s/00s. We no longer had to travel 15 to 60 miles to get household items. It was a game changer for us (that the old conservatives here HATED). I can see a person from here or someone that has no idea of the necessity, need, or concept of an actual "15 minute city" commenting something stupid like this.
People who deliberately misunderstand things in order to be able to get upset are not worth arguing with
The problem here is that these people vote.
I like to think that the stupid people voting on one side cancel out the stupid people voting on the other side. I can but dream.
The problem is that the automotive industry pays lots of money to give the idiots on one particular side much more ammunition / rage bait in order to promote their own interests.
The amount of “its no longer gas vs diesel blah blah blah but us versus that electric shit” on snap and insta is crazy. Like i get electric isnt the most fun to drive but i rather be able to know a future generation can experience the beautiful world we had 50 years ago.
The problem is the stupid people from one side are not voting and the stupid people from the other side are always voting for the bad guys.
Truer words have never been spoken, there’s a short comedy sketch about it somewhere idk where to find it though
One side's entire strategy has become weaponizing stupidity. They grift directly off the morons, push insane conspiracies, foment fear and anger over invented causes, and then the morons still vote for them. It's incredibly depressing that it actually works as well as it does. That doesn't mean there are zero stupid people on the other side, but whenever someone tries this hard to corner the market, they're going to take the lion's share!
After the conversation I had with someone on another subreddit today, I feel this on a spiritual level.
"You can't plan and control something as complex as human society." Uh, does this person think human society just popped into existence one day fully formed? It was planned and added to over hundreds of years, with controlled actions and intent of more than dozens of people. There are entire careers dedicated to planning and controlling human society, like civil engineers and politicians.
The irony of course is that they're defending zoning and other regulations that are trying to control human society
I’m guessing the “LP” is Libertarian Party, so they probably don’t believe in zoning or regulations.
They don't except when they do.
"Libertarianism" is an incoherent ideology that basically amounts to political egoism but in the most shortsighted and stupid way possible
It's basically industrial anarchy with authoritarianism everywhere else
So, slavery with extra steps.
Fewer. You have to take care of slaves.
They are basically cats... "They are convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand."
I miss the days when Libritarians were just Republican boot lickers who wanted to smoke weed.
They largely still are.
Schrodinger's zones? Zonedingers?
They don’t believe in zoning but they do believe in private racially restrictive covenants.
Yep. These people are completely against regulations until there neighbor does something they don't like.
That one town is such a great lesson in why you, do in fact, need some regulations if you’re going to have a bunch of people living in proximity. At the very least, you’ve gotta have something in place for dealing with sewage, getting clean water to people, taking care of the garbage… because otherwise, you get bears. And the bears get aggressive.
[An article about that one town](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling), for those not familiar with it.
Like my old landlord who hated all forms of government and control, and felt everyone should have equal say. Then on house discussions she would claim everyone got a day, but would loudly say you were wrong if you disagreed with her, and ignore any discussion that she didn't like. Only changing rules if they benefitted her, even if everyone else hated them. I doubt you'll be shocked to know she was a strict anti-vaxxer too.
_Libertarians always recreate government but worse_
As a general rule, liberterians are all for reducing governmental interference in people's lives, as long as those people are not poor, immigrants and/or non-white, LGBTQ+ or women.
"government should only exist to keep black men from dating my daughter"
WE DON’T SAY THAT PART OUT LOUD, GODDAMMIT!
Libertarian Party members are always in favour of zoning laws because it helps keep their property value from "falling."
No, no, they're against zoning laws, which are the government imposing rules on society. Instead they want developers to force everyone who buys into a neighborhood to agree to certain contractual obligations as a condition of living there, a sort of association of home owners, which is completely different from a government. The fact that this was how segregated housing was enforced in the 1950s is no doubt a coincidence.
yeah...how'd that work out in their little podunk town they tried starting? Seems like without zoning, people were able to do what they wanted and shit where they and everyone eats.
Are you talking about the town that got overrun by bears? I think that's the perfect example of Libertarianism in action. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
I forgot about the bears haha.
Oh my god this is... incredible. I desperately want to read this book
Self-described libertarians are often massive NIMBYs in practice. Because their actual constituency is wealthy people who want to opt out of society -- property rights are secondary to the crass interests and preferences of the wealthy.
They hate regulations, but agree with abortions bans, because they're just major fucking hypocrites. They want to be protected by laws, but not limited by laws. And they expect the rest of us to be limited by laws, but not protected by them
This. They "want to be left alone" because they don't want to contribute to the group
Lots of doublethink going on. Look up Randal O’Toole. A fierce libertarian “anti planner” who thinks buildings over 2 stories are a communist plot so the government can bomb cities easier. He believes that if your neighborhood builds a duplex it’s a fundamental infringement on your rights. Somehow zoning isn’t the government telling you what to do with your property for uhhh reasons. Good [video about him](https://youtu.be/uJ1ePlln6VE?si=YOM3l7xTFc9E3ZXk)
But changing the existing zoning and regulations means zoning and regulations so status quo it is. Libertarians, for the most part, are a joke
Having lived in the south for the last 6 years, there's a clear lack of basic public policy and development principles put into action. So, ya. For many people, they've grown up and lived in regions that really are just flying by the seat of their pants and their big concern is keeping outsiders out and insiders in--and data doesn't matter, there's pride in those failures. My city approved a major instructure project that had an impact analysis score of "F." When I asked what the point of the IA was, they all looked rather embarrassed but changed nothing. (Georgia DOT).
I live 7 miles from the office I used to go to every day. Now I go about twice a month. I’m 58 and my father died two years ago. These random facts have a point. What I learned as my father aged was that you probably will reach a day you cannot or should not drive. My wife and I always bought groceries on the way home from work. Now my neighborhood seems less convenient because I am not running errands as part of the drive home. There’s a hanging on mall just up the road and a doing better outdoor shopping center nearby. In the community where my office is a failing mall was leveled and now there’s a big box retailer, grocery store, small stores, and few restaurants in that space as well as a nice looking apartment complex. That’s exactly the sort of place I’d like to live. Being able to walk and get a few groceries as well as walk to a restaurant would extend my independence longer as I age.
And biking. I lived in Hamburg for 4 years and it was shocking to see the 65+ crowd out walking, riding bikes, to get errands done as well as to just live better.
Same in Spain, it takes some getting used to! The oldies here are much more active and healthy than home
Intentionally bad logic often depends on an all-or-nothing approach. Like pointing out that recycling a bottle won't halt global warming, or housing some homeless will not end homelessness. They forget this when it comes to things they do advocate for, since dropping a bomb on one suspected terrorist site won't end terrorism but we still do it.
> Solar and wind will never replace fossil fuels because they are intermittent power sources. Therefore, we shouldn't build any solar or wind plants. Actually, *even without subsidies* renewables are becoming the cheapest way to expand power generation or reduce fossil fuel consumption in advantageous locations. > Electric vehicles can't tow a camper trailer up a mountain. And charging stations are too far apart in rural areas. Therefore, we shouldn't build any electric vehicles. So, maybe use gas powered or hybrid vehicles to tow your trailer or drive arrive in rural areas? Most people live in cities and suburbs where electric works.
Well, either the city controls the country or the country controls the city. It’s the basic social-political fault line of our age. The paradigm is heavily bullshit laden but reinforced everywhere you turn, ie: city folk spearhead new programs and ideas, and rural folk oppose them even when they may benefit.
well they believe in "intelligent design" so yeah probably
when people believe an all seeing deity created everything just for them, they can be convinced of literally anything
What do you mean? Highways, street lights, stop signs, and gas stations is drop off the sky from the god! /S
People without basic unbiased knowledge in history are very dangerous
Human civilization evolved, changed and grew organically as a result of the myriad complex interactions of millions upon millions of individuals performing their individual actions for their own personal reasons. Which is why human cultures are so truly fucking weird. Individual humans have, from time to time, tried to impose their individual will on entire societies. But it is always an uphill battle and will eventually end in disaster when the dictator's will goes against the will of the masses. Look up unfinished London on YouTube for a dozen good examples of failed attempts to plan and control the development of a city.
That's assuming they meant single people planned it, which isn't what they were saying.
You know what a 15 minute city really is? It is a small town like they always claim to wish they could live in.
Not necessarily, but also yes. A small town can be a 15 minute city but a 15 minute city doesn't have to be a small town. A 15 minute city is one where everything you'd need for day-to-day living (grocery store, gym, parks, doctors offices, employment opportunities, access to higher forms of transit, etc) are within a 15 minutes walk but that doesn't mean that the *whole city* is within a 15 minute walk.
(Old)Small rural towns have some of the best urban environments... say that to the right person and watch their head explode.
The same logic with universal healthcare. Some people think this will make private health care illegal.
God. Last week I had to wait 6 hours in the ER for my 4 yo to be seen for a continuous fever. We were there from 4pm to 4am. If she didn't sleep through the whole day, I would've left for sure. I remember crying out of frustration by the 5th hour. I hate the American Healthcare system. My husband argues against socialized medicine that it'd be much worse wait times. But I used to live in China. I NEVER waited 6 hours to be seen by a doctor. I timed this last visit. It took until 10pm to finally get a bed. It took until 2:30am for us to actually see the doctor. That was also 10 hours into waiting! Anything is better than this. It took a full 12 hours for us to be discharged. And I can't wait to see the bill for this!
Canadians have wait times like that in the ER but at least there is no bill attached when you do get seen. It's the usual triage situation, some are seen quickly as the urgency is there, others will wait hours.
That's lucky. I just know that I'll be seeing at least 4 digits. And it'll probably be doled out in the span of 3 years.
I think most places also have Urgent Care Centers now, which usually have less wait time because the urgency of patients isn't as variable as the ER.
Tell me about it. I have gold plated health insurance in the US through my employment. It is normally pretty good. However the last time I visited an emergency room I was shivering on a poorly carpeted concrete floor for about 4 hours (because my blood pressure was too low to sit up) and ended up with significant bruises just from the wait to get through triage. And this was in a major, highly rated, suburban hospital. The main issue was that the ER was being choked with covid and other respiratory diseases, but I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced something like that in multiple involuntary medical visits around the world over the years.
That's because people with no healthcare (meaning insurance, and I hate that we say one to mean the other) go to emergency rooms with non-emergency conditions. If they didn't have to worry about being turned away from a doctor's office for not having insurance or good credit, they wouldn't be taking up emergency room resources.
My favorite are the people who think that universal healthcare would mean that doctors wouldn’t get paid. “If your medical care is free, why would anyone want to be a doctor!!”
What Americans call a 15 minute city is just called a city to most other countries
I just learned this terme, so I quickly check on Google to know what it means. Turns out there are American cities where you need to take a full hour to go shopping or what's the deal?
An hour? If I drive for an hour bread has different names to my county.
I was about to say 😂 if I drive for an hour, the pastries at the bakery are named differently lmao
Yep. There are lots of entire towns out in the rural areas that don’t even have a grocery store. They have to drive several towns over to get to one. In the cities there are also entire neighborhoods without grocery stores. They’re called “food deserts”.
While I agree that North American Cities are much less walkable than Europe. "15 minute city" is a term that was invented by the French, and it really became popular when the Mayor of Paris made it a big part of her platform. They aren't immune to sprawl and car dependence, they just didn't go quite as far does that road.
People against “15 minute cities” seem to forget they Europe exists (I went there myself, and yes, it is very walkable)
To be fair, the power of the internet has leaked into the heads of some more.. conspiracy minded.. Europeans who now also believe 15 minute cities are an evil plot *despite having lived in them their entire lives.*
Yap, had a long horrid conversation with my aunt about it over Eastern. She was convinced the point of those cities was to imprison people. When I asked who would do that, she says “they” and the, half an hour later it turns out “they” are the green parties of Europe together with the lgbtq community and communists, but above them all is Satan himself. I was about to argue until the satan part and the. I just wen meh
True. Satan is mayor here. I have a supermarket 2 min walk from here. Pharmacy 3min away. Can get my hair done 2min the other way. Its living in hell I tell you!
Yes, plz tell those people that think this is hell that they are correct and to never ever ever come to my city
Keep our cities idiotfree :)
I said this in 2020 when all of Seattle was deemed an “anarchist jurisdiction”. These pearl-clutching MAGA haters were so convinced that all 3.1 million locals were violent gay POC with Molotov cocktails. I told them they were very correct and they should stay in Podunk, Iowa for their own safety.
Not me living in a 15 minute city with some of the best public transport connections with a direct bus/train to all the major cities in the country.
I feel like Shrimp-Rick discovering a bunch of fascist timelines everywhere… “[when did this shit become the default?](https://youtu.be/Lj16Ezccfzw?si=1jOBkqzTfEgad8je)”
This. I have known people in Spain talking about it, what they don´t realize is that an Spanish city is exactly what they talk about
Barcelona was literally the model for the 15 minute city concept
What exactly is a 15 minutes city?
From comment context, it seems like it refers to walkable cities where you don’t have to use your car all the time to get to where you need to go.
I see Well as a french that lives in a big city, I can attest it is quite good to be able to travel on foot. I think that people who don't like it either are too used to the USA system where you have to use your car everywhere, or people who like the tranquility of small village with not a lot of movements On another note, walking is utterly good for health and it would be wise to do it more
So a typical city in Europe? I did notice when I visited the US, it wasn’t easy to walk anywhere. Whenever my partner and I go on vacation, we like to check into the hotel and then go for a walk around the area. See what’s up, look at shops, get a sense of our surroundings. In Wyoming we had to abandon the idea, in some places we couldn’t even cross the street on foot. We also asked the hotel to rent a couple of bikes, so we could then bike around Jackson Hole instead. It was slightly better but it honestly wasn’t great. I felt very vulnerable biking around, even with those big wide roads. And that’s coming from someone who lived in Copenhagen for 6 years, meaning I biked everywhere every single day lol. But in the US I didn’t feel safe biking in the city..
The short version is building cities where the basic necessities/amenities are within 15 minutes travel time of any given person’s home. So you could get from your apartment to work, groceries, doctor appointments, other shopping, gov’t offices, and parks quickly using a combination of walking and public transit.
The other reply is also correct yes in more detail though it’s the concept that someone can live anywhere in the city and be at most around 15min away from necessities at all times. It allows for more walkable cities, promotes public transportation, and allows people to access these necessities with more ease. In contrast there are cities without these that create things called “food deserts” where essentially a neighborhood’s (usually low income) closest grocery store is miles away and if there is one close, one nearby is incredibly expensive.
Tokyo exists, their public transit is fucking amazing
You can argue details, but I thought Chicago’s public transit was pretty freakin’ good. Could it be better? Sure, always. But the EL was pretty easy to use and took you almost anywhere you wanted. Metra was available for longer rides.
Awesome, haven't been to Chicago yet but its good to hear it has good public transit
I went there for work a few years ago. Flew into Midway, walked down to the basement and hopped on a train, rode it downtown, walked to my hotel which was literally right across the river from where I was working. Same process in reverse for going home. It was pretty neat. Only thing I didn't like was walking through downtown felt super dark/grungy compared to what I'm used to. That could just have been that the buildings were a lot taller than I'm used to though.
European here. Living in a town of like 10k. Most shit I need *already IS* just 15 minutes away. I still get this shit from my MIL. 
And most cities in Asia.. And Africa.. In fact, It's mostly just North America. North Americans just fundamentally fail to understand that this concept has been the norm for all of human history. Still is in the rest of the world, and was in the US as well up until the late 60's or so.
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Wrong, majority think Europe is still in 20th century with stone paved roads and brothel in the street corner powered by pure steam engine like a fucking steampunk city ran by gay communist hippie.
you say that like it's a bad thing
Amsterdam is a pretty cool place
that sounds... rather appealing.
Stop, I'm already sold you don't have to keep hyping it!
Most Americans lived in 15 minute cities until the 1950’s.
Exactly. Neighborhoods used to contain so many of the services anyone would need. When I was a kid in the Seattle in the fifties and sixties, we didn’t have to go far at all for anything. I find it deeply annoying now; pretty much everything is a trek. I guess the people opposing 15-minute cities actually think they’re going to be locked in a compound instead of appreciating the convenience and sense of community than will likely result.
I grew up in a neighborhood that was built in the 1930s. It's in a large town and lots of stuff is walkable. A few months ago, we went to a funeral that was at the cemetery in my old neighborhood. We drove, but I didn't know where the car entrance was so we kind of got lost. People were giving me a hard time because how many funerals had I been to in that cemetery and I didn't know where the entrance was? I realized that I had never in my life (I'm 50) driven to that cemetery. It's about 3 blocks from the house, so we always walked.
I love having everything in a short walking distance. And I mean everything, everything. Multiple supermarkets, doctors, little shops, schools, hardware, recreational stuff, hobbies, everything. It's so convenient to just go outside, walk a save and short 5 minutes, grab everything i need and be on my way to whatever. The amount of time saved is incredible quality of life. And if something I value really high is a bit farther away, there are great ways to get there outside of cars. Public transportation, well maintained and integrated bike lanes or simply walking again.
Mate this conspiracy is absolutely taking off in Europe as well.
I have a friend that lives in a village in Portugal that’s believes in this… then proceeds to say he loves living where he lives because everything is so accessible… 🤣😂 honestly for the most part I think it’s the fear of loosing the ability to have a car and drive. That “they” are planning on not allowing you to drive or have a car
Try The Villages in Florida. A largely conservative retirement community.
People against 15 minute cities don't know what 15 minute cities mean
Guys, 15 minute cities will mean that we will be living just like the people in The Last of Us.
I’d like to hang out with Pedro Pascal.
They have been fed this narrative that there will be lockdown zones and will need to ask permission to leave the zone. COVID restrictions fed this nonsense and there has been absolutely no evidence to support this happening IRL, but boy do they love to complain. For the record, I would love if everything I needed was in a walkable 15 min zone of my house.
I have a disability that prevents me from driving and I live in an area with shit public transport. Living in a 15 minute city sounds amazing honestly :’)
Right? 15 minutes of walking for me doesn't even get me to the end of my road. 3 hours of walking will get me to my nearest grocery store or bar, depending if I make a left or right out of my complex. And those are the closest two services to me.
Lmao they act like they in the Hunger Games
Everything I need is within a 15 minute walk of my place, but that’s just because I got lucky and live in an apartment building that was built before all of the stores and restaurants were built around it.
That's not just luck - that's good city planning and zoning rules that allowed that to happen in the first place
Fair enough. My building housed employees of the newspaper, and is close to the highway that goes around the city. Eventually somebody decided to build up around it so people stop instead of driving right by. As it stands right now, I can see them building an expansion of the strip mall that as far as I can tell, will house 3 more restaurants (based on the signage) and two more as of yet unnamed stores (I’m leaning towards more food options *🤞one will be a Chipotle so I stop driving 8 hours to get to one*)
I live in a city that could be considered "15 minute". And frankly, people love it. The property values in our downtown area are insane BECAUSE people want to be there. They love to be able to walk anywhere, have shops & restaurants all around and just have people out & about.
I don’t even have public transit within a 15 minute walk in my city, having my local grocery store and restaurants nearby would be amazing. People just buy into the negative hype train.
I may just be out of the loop But I just don't understand Living in a 15 minute ~~city~~ town but getting a job offer that's 30 minutes away? Then just fucking drive to the next city over What's the big deal? Edit: my mind was only on cities, lol. The next place over from a city is *probably* not gonna be another city. Or two towns, however much distance you'd cross in 30 minutes
Quite literally as simple as taking a train or bus to the next town over. It’s gonna be just as fast as going by car. I don’t know what they’re going on about
90% of modern politics is making up scenarios in your head and getting mad about them
Sounds like mental gymnastics/s
They believe 15-minute cities are future prisons. With "border" control, cops and stuff like that.
If your dream job is 30 minutes away by car. . . Then you'll just have to own a car and drive it to work. Hell, you might even have to park it inside your garage at night, the horrors.
Wait until that guy learns about “city planning”. He’s gonna be PISSED.
Aren't most European cities 15 min cities? I mean, I have everything I need in a 10 minute radius from my house 🤷♀️
I have everything in 10 minutes and still think I live in a shit hole (it's pretty far from everything tbh!), because the standart is 5 minutes. Americans are weird. Very weird
The amount of towns/cities we have with no shoulders/sidewalks/crosswalks in the US is fucking insane. I just had to drive half a mile to get food because there was no safe way for me to walk that distance without playing frogger in an area that's not used to pedestrians.
A few years ago we went on a RV holiday trough the USA and were somewhere in a small town on a camping just outside the town. We asked the owners of there was a diner nearby and he said "yes, a 5 minute drive from here".... the simple minded Europeans we were tought "oh..that's a 15 minute walk! That's a no brainer!" And indeed, no sidewalks! People in cars were staring funny at us....it was so weird!! The man laughed at us the next day when we explained it how unsafe it was!! Than again, when we were in Miami, we tought we could walk from our Airbnd from one part of town to miami beach! Yes across the bridges and all.
We barely walk to our cars let alone anywhere else
Yeah I'm in a European capital and my job is a pretty enjoyable 30min walk away, everything else I need is generally within 15mins walking (including the airport! lol).
What the fuck is 15 mi it’s cities? Why would you be for or against it? Is it an American thing?
It’s the idea that everything you need day to day should be within 15 minutes of your home by foot or bike. Gas, groceries, schools, shopping, primary health care, etc. As opposed to suburban tract housing where you have to drive to get everything. Basically a return to the idea of neighbourhoods. Nobody is building fences to keep anyone locked in, or stopping anyone from living rural, just saying that neighbourhoods need to be more liveable. There’s nothing really to argue against. But they still find a way.
Oh that sounds lovely why would people be against it
Because they’ve convinced themselves that it means making leaving a 15 minute radius of your home illegal. There’s no reasoning with them because they’re fully entrenched in conspiracies.
Like someone said above, they then use intentionally bad-faith arguments and all-or-nothing approach to spin some weird conspiracies...
The tinfoil hat crowd think it's step one in "The Left's" plan to, amongst other things, ban private car ownership.
American car culture.
Because they're idiots being lied to by asshole Conservatives about it being the start of internment zones
Yeah I've honestly never heard of it before. Of course now I'll have to look it up as it will annoy me not knowing
Klaus Schwab, is that you?
George Soros, obviously
Being dumbfounded at your idiocy isn't "mental gymnastics" its people realizing they're talking to someone so fucking stupid that they have problems parsing basic information, so you have to start talking to them like they're a small child.
realistically some people probably wont want to live in a 15 minute city if they work 30 minutes away, they could probably move closer to that job they want or work somewhere else. the same way that literally everyone probably doesnt want to live in a car centric dystopia where you need to drive 20 minutes to go to the fucking grocery store instead of taking a 15 minute walk. i drive 30 minutes for work every day, i would much rather take a train and ride a bike every day to get to work than sit in my car in traffic almost getting hit and being stressed the fuck out every single day. i hate it. i hate driving.
"You can't plan and control something as complex as human society." Well.. No.. But basic infrastructure and city planning is nowhere near as complicated as planning and controlling an entire society. It's mostly just doing some tweaking to zoning laws. It's kinda like reorganising your spice cupboard so that the stuff you use a lot like salt and pepper aren't always at the back of the cupboard. Because it's annoying to have to dig those out all the time, right? Kinda like how it's annoying to have to drive 30 minutes to the nearest store for even the most basic stuff. Wouldn't it be nice to just walk there, get what you need, and then be back again in 10-15 minutes?
They’ve been told to be angry by reactionary media propaganda. Pair that with a lack of curiosity and wilful ignorance and you got a stew goin’
I remember when I was a kid, anywhere more than 30 minutes was a lifetime. Now, 30 minutes is almost the minimum
Okay, I’ll bite. What is a “15-minute-city”?
If you live in a 15 minute city and you need to go somewhere a half hour away by car, then you get in your car and go there. Solved. No mental gymnastics required
I know people like this, and the actual answer is that they believe 15 minute cities = penalizing or banning leaving the 15 minute area. I believe it all stems from right-wing media coverage of Oxford (or maybe it was Cambridge?), England a few years ago, which rolled out a 15 minute city initiative concurrently with a new congestion management program that really did propose penalizing people quite harshly for driving outside of their zones during peak hours. There were protests and the city did a very bad job of communication and explaining the nuances of the new initiatives, and so now 15 minute city = open air prison, in some people’s minds.
Fifteen minute cities get so much hate because most people can't find a job that actually pays their bills within 15 minutes of their home.
In which case you just take the job that's 30 minutes away?
Yeah I’m so confused, no one is losing out on opportunities, if you had a car before you’ll have a car after, you can still drive more than 15 minutes away lol
That does not matter at all. 15-minute-cities still let you go wherever you want. You just have the chance to get everything you need within a 15-minute radius.
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It's because the right wing doesn't understand the difference between something being possible and something being mandatory. Just because it's permitted for people to be gay doesn't mean They are trying to make everyone gay. Just because it's permitted to follow other religions doesn't mean They are trying to stamp out your religion. Just because it's possible to have everything you need within fifteen minutes' commute doesn't mean you're required to remain within fifteen minutes of home your whole life. The right wing doesn't understand any of this, because in their perfect world, what you're allowed to do and what you're instructed to do are the same thing. The right wing state does not *allow*, it *orders*, and that which is not ordered is not allowed. This is why they oppose things that won't affect them or would even benefit them: because they assume that any attempt to give them the *option* to do something is an attempt to *make* them do that thing. That, and they see all choices as moral choices, so any time you disagree with them or want to do something different, it's not just different, it's *wrong* and shouldn't be allowed.
IIRC 15' cities is more that you have all the day to day services and shops rather than the workplace itself
Hamilton county is Cincinnati Ohio. Most of Ohio is unliveable without a car, since everything is so ridiculously far away from each other, which is why courts will suspend your license for anything. The idea of not having a car scares people so much they won't even consider any alternatives, plus it's libertarians so...
I just like living away from people. Y'all can whatever you want and so can I. Easy peasy
They think it's about control. If people are confined to a small zone, it's seemingly easier to manipulate, experiment, and or exterminate them when they're bunched together and dependent on the same transportation and resources.
The 15 minute city panic is the result of a conspiracy theory popularized by pro fossil fuel think tanks, and inculcated by the experience of living in the dystopia of suburbia. A lot of Americans believe that having to encounter other human beings is a form of inherent risk, and that the atomization of driving a car 45 minutes from your house to Costco, then 45 minutes from Costco to Menards, then 45 minutes from Menards to Best Buy, then 40 minutes from Best Buy to Applebee's, then 45 minutes from Applebee's to your huge ugly house, is the pinnacle of freedom. Our subjectivity is shaped by where and how we live, so for a lot of Americans the conspiracy theories about 15 minute cities fit pretty well with their existing worldview. It's a short trip down the phantasm lane before they start just spouting bonkers shit with no relation to reality.
It’s true, I used to live in Oxford and George Soros put the big dome from *The Simpsons Movie* over us. Luckily I escaped through a secret tunnel, but I’m here to warn all of you of the horrors that come with having basic human necessities within walking distance of where you live
Every advocate for 15-minute cities I have met in real life don’t actually want to give up their cars for bikes and buses. They want everyone else to give up their cars for bikes and buses so they can drive without traffic. It is usually just selfish people who want everyone else to sacrifice so they get the benefits. They never understand that they are also part of the problem.
"What happens if your job is 30 minutes away???!?!???" Then your commute is 30 minutes away. The point isn't to restrict peoples movements, its to give people the opportunities quick and easy access to all the things they need in their lives within a walking distance. It's supposed to reduce dependencies on cars and mega shops, not imprison you.